THE LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN: THE BLACK DOSSIER by Alan Moore with art and cover by Kevin O'Neill
© Wildstorm/DC Comics
Opening the Black Dossier: The Alan Moore Interview, Part Two
By: Kurt AmackerDate: Wednesday, November 14, 2007
Leave it to the comics industry to drop about three things at once in around one week, all worthy of discussion in this week’s Comicscape. DC’s Countdown reached its half-way point last week, World War Hulk wrapped today, and Marvel very suddenly launched an online subscription service that allows readers to access a giant – though by no means complete – library of back issues to read. But no matter, because The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: The Black Dossier also hits shop this week, after over a year of delays. Last week, we ran the first part of my interview with Alan Moore, in which he discussed the circumstances surrounding his departure from DC and the attendant controversy, as well as what we can expect from the book when it hits shops today, at least here in the United States. To read the first part of the interview, kindly point your mouse here and click. The second part of the interview follows, in which Mr. Moore discusses the broader themes of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, as well as the forthcoming third volume of the series from Top Shelf.
Alan Moore: I think The Black Dossier is interesting in that it marks quite a radical transition point. I mean, we’re moving out of the familiar and obviously very commercial territory of the Victorian era. We’ve dispensed with the most popular and most visual characters, such as Mr. Hyde, the Invisible Man, and Captain Nemo. This is new territory.
Once we began to explore the fictional landscape of the 1950s, it was every bit as exotic and as wonderful as the Victorian era. For one thing, when we were doing our Victorian narrative, we were pretty much limited to literary figures from that period. Now, as we move into the 20th century in the first book of the new Volume 3 of The League, which is set in 1910, we are able to use elements from the theatre of the period and from some of the very early silent films of the period. And of course, as we get up to 1958, we’ve got a plethora of television series and movies that we can make reference to and draw characters and situations from. So, it was very interesting doing The Black Dossier and seeing that, yes, these characters – this concept – it did work in the modern world – I mean, at in as much as 1958 is a bit more like the modern world than 1898.
Kurt Amacker: What was the motive in creating a world in which all of British literature coexists? It seems like you all started with the Victorian and then expanded upon it. It doesn’t seem as if you lost control of it, but rather that it all fell into place as you moved forward in time. What’s your motivation and vision for creating a shared universe like that – one that isn’t closed, per se, like the Marvel Universe, but open to different creations?
AM: We are actually trying to create a world that is somewhat bigger than just British literature. We are including, as we did in the Almanac in the second volume, stories, and potentially characters and situations, from all over the world. We want this to be as comprehensive as possible. We’ve also filled in, especially in The Black Dossier, a lot of the League’s back-story. In the Fanny Hill sequel that I mentioned, it tells a lot of the back-story of the 18th century version of the League – the Gulliver group. The Shakespeare play is talking about the formation of the League in the Elizabethan era under the Duke of Milan, Prospero. So, we have a continuity that runs back almost to the dawn of time and which covers pretty well everywhere that we could think of on the surface of this planet, and with, perhaps, future science-fiction excursions, other planets as well.
The League has grown since its inception as a concept. I mean, originally it was basically a just Justice League of Victorian Britain. But, when we realized that if we made every character a reference to some fictional work or other, then totally new possibilities started to present themselves. As will be made plain in The Black Dossier, the whole of the superhero continuity of most of the American comic publishers is a small part of the greater continuum of the League. The continuum of the League represents the whole of fiction. Every fictional world and every fictional character that has ever existed – potentially at least – coexists somewhere in the world of the League. And, so that world, as you can imagine, is pretty much limitless. We have fiction going back before the dawn of humanity into the remote primeval past. And, we have fictions that stretch into the conceivably distant future. Now, that is quite a territory. I think that me and Kevin could play in that territory – as long as we were continued to be interested and inspired by it – probably for the rest of our lives, and never exhaust its possibilities. Despite the fact that we’re still on Volume 3, we’re already talking about future projects. And, they could literally be all over the place. They could be set anywhere at any time, and it could be any incarnation of the League. So, the multiverse is our oyster on this one. It is a fantastic concept because it includes all of the fictional concepts somewhere within it. And, it means if you’re cautious enough about copyright laws, you can generally find a way of using any concept or character from the whole length and breadth of the fictional universe. It has to be the ultimate fictional continuum, because it seems to include all others.
KA: The copyright issues almost seem even more petty in light of what you all are trying to achieve with the League, which is to comment upon the unified whole of human storytelling. That’s incredibly ambitious on the part of you and Kevin, and it seems almost tragic that we have to reduce all of these characters and stories we’ve shared for thousands of years to a bunch of legalese, particularly in light of what they mean to us.
AM: I suppose that the way we feel about it, which is particularly monomaniacal, is that this is such a great idea – knocking down the picket fences between one story and another – that it is almost a shame that we have to bother with such things as copyright laws. But, that is part of the fun. There are certain characters that turn up in The Black Dossier, for example, that because it’s set in 1958, unlike the Victorian era, are still well within their copyright date. But nevertheless, because we live in such an informed society, if you take a fictional character, everybody knows the trivia of those characters and if they don’t, they can just Google it. So, you can make the most glancing of references or allusions and people are going to be able to figure it out. They’re going to know who you’re talking about without you having to use a trademarked or copyrighted name or likeness. So, we do seem to have an incredibly free range with all this. Like I said, we could see ourselves continuing with this for years to come without exhausting the possibilities.
KA: It’s sort of a limitless playing field, isn’t it? We’re talking about the whole of human storytelling and one almost wishes you could keep doing it forever, because you’ve got quite a lot of territory to cover, don’t you?
AM: Well, that’s it. There are stories to potentially tell. But, at least we’ll have laid an interesting groundwork. And, if after we’ve gone, people want to come along and plug into that, it would be churlish of us to say that they couldn’t. So, yeah, it’s a unified field theory of fiction. It’s kind of strange, because on one level, there isn’t really a political subtext to the League – an underlying one; there is no real moral message that we’re trying to pass on. It is purely about the marvelous world of the human imagination – the world of fiction. Now, on some levels, you might say that seems perhaps less important than a lot of my usual work, where there is obviously a strong agenda – where I’m trying to get over something I believe in. Worlds of the imagination have been around almost as long as we, as a species, have been around. In ancient times, there was this imaginary world with fictional locations, like Mount Olympus – or at least, the fictional version – and fictional beings like the ancient gods. And, this planet has evolved alongside ours and is now very heavily populated. And, all of our fictions and all of our art exist either purely for our idle entertainment or they serve some purpose. I would suspect, given how quickly our species begins the mythologizing process, they serve quite an important purpose. It seems that we’re scarcely down from the trees before we begin to tell the story of how we came down from the trees, embellishing it here and there, or telling the story of the great god who inspired us to come down.
Now, nature very seldom does things just for fun – just for entertainment. Almost everything that is in our environment and in our lives is there for some kind of survival purpose, which leads me to suspect that there is something about the interdependence of our material world and the fictional world that is of great importance to us and our lives. There is some kind of feedback in that the architects of the physical world are very often – more often than not – inspired by fiction. To take an extreme example, the Nazi regime in the 1930s was inspired by Heinrich Himmler’s bizarre Arthurian fantasies, and upon a fictional view and a romanticized view of the German past. At the same time, people like Winston Churchill were trying to get the nation to stand against Hitler and was appealing to a kind of mythology of England, which also probably included King Arthur. If you actually look at the people who shape most of the world, they are themselves very often shaped by fiction. And, sometimes those fictions are incredibly dangerous and sometimes they’re quite illuminating. It’s an interesting relationship, and I suspect that that relationship is probably ultimately what The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen will turn out to be about when all is said and done, although I’m sure we’ll have a lot of rip-roaring adventures and good laughs along the way.
KA: Would you care to discuss or expound upon the third volume of The League that will be coming out from Top Shelf?
AM: The third volume grows out from the fairly radical approach that we’ve taken with The Black Dossier. We decided that, for practical reasons, we’d like this third volume to be structured differently than the preceding two volumes. We thought that it might be easier on the readers if we did three standalone 72-page volumes that are, nevertheless, connected by an overarching story, so that if there is a long wait between issues, it won’t be a cliffhanger. Having read one chapter of this third volume, the readers will be satisfied to a certain degree They will feel like they’ve read a substantial chapter of a story that answers the questions that it has raised to a large extent, while still leaving a couple of plot threads dangling, traveling into the next episode. Now, we the story overall is going to be entitled Century, because it takes roughly 100 years to tell. The story starts around 1910, where you’ve got a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen composed of five or six characters from that period’s literature – a couple of familiar faces and a few new ones. Basically, they are acting on strange presentiments of a disaster that is going to happen in London and that they think may be connected with the forthcoming coronation of the king. These are the events around which Bertolt Brecht’s The Threepenny Opera concerned itself, so we’ve got characters from that – Mack the Knife and Pirate Jenny – turning up and playing quite a big part in this first chapter. There are also threads which refer to an occult conspiracy – again, drawn from the occult literature of the period. In fact, there’s quite a good scene with kind of a magician’s club somewhere in the West End, where most of the 19th century occultists are all hanging out and discussing trade secrets.
The second book, by which time the League has been pared down to three or four members, is set in 1968, and revolves around the psychedelic, swinging London of that period, and which features a variety of characters from the films and literature of that time. Michael Moorcock’s Jerry Cornelius makes an appearance. There are also a lot of references to some of the cult cinema of that period, to television, to literature, and even to comic books. And then, the third and final chapter of Volume 3 is going to be set in 2008. We’ll bring the League right up to date and will, I hope, demonstrate the flexibility of these characters, and that they are not just perennially frozen in a kind of Victorian wonderland and can’t survive outside of it. I think that we’re going to demonstrate that you could extrapolate upon these characters until the end of time, if necessary. They’re adaptable, is basically what I’m saying. I think by showing that we can actually set the story in the present day, that it will be a good demonstration. In the overall course of this third book, I think that the subtext is probably going to be the decline of culture. I mean, the first part is set in 1910 and will probably be packaged in the style of one of the very beautiful post-art-nouveau art movements of that period, and will look fairly gorgeous. The second one, set in 1968, will probably have a cover that is in a psychedelic poster style. The third one will be reflective of our culture in 2008. And, I think that something about the tone of the books themselves and the way that they’re packaged will kind of give a strong message that we’ve come a long way since the glory days of the Victorian era, with all of those marvelous and rich characters. Yes, we’ve come a long way and it wasn’t necessarily in the right direction. That’s going to be part of the subtext of Volume 3, but as usual, it will be a fairly rip-roaring yarn that will build up to quite a devastating climax in Book 3. And, there’s a sort of encroaching frankness to the delivery. Perhaps that’s because we’re moving out of the Victorian era, where if I wanted to have the characters use and expletive or a swear word, I would substitute a line of asterisks, which was the Victorian style. In The Black Dossier, we’ve been a lot more frank about the sexuality and language. And this is something that I think we’re going to be continuing with as the League progresses through the decades towards the present day – that they will reflect the times that they are moving through. And as a result, some of the material in the third volume is quite savage. I don’t really want to give too much away yet, but some of the scenes in the second book are very, very bleak, and the third book is a complete nightmare. But, that’s the one that I haven’t yet written, so I should be getting to that sometime early next year.
KA: I think we’re all looking forward to it.
AM: Me and Kevin are both very, very excited about it. It’s going to be presenting the League in a different way, although we’re keeping the same team together. We’re hopefully getting Ben Dimagmaliw to do the coloring again, and Todd Klein will be continuing as the letterer. We really feel that they’re a huge part of the whole League process. It would be difficult to replace them.
KA: Do you have any closing thoughts for the readers of Mania.com?
AM: I hope I didn’t ramble too much. We were angry about this, but basically we just want to move on into the new territory that the work seems to be taking us into, because it looks exciting and it’s very, very promising. We want to kind of put the American comic industry behind us. It seems like a bit of a dying beast anyway, because of the strange attitudes that it’s taken with creators and because of the unreconstructed 1930s business thinking that the companies seem to be based upon – the gangster ethics of their origins. There’s something quite interesting going on in comics at the moment, which is that it seems that the respectable book publishers are moving in. This is largely because, as I understand it, the sales of individual comics are still plummeting. The sales of the collected albums are rising. It means that the comic book form – the original pamphlet form – is probably on its way out, and it means that trade paperbacks and graphic novels will become more the norm. And, since a lot of the big publishers are moving into that area, its difficult to see what need there will be for the original comic publishers. I suppose that there will always be, for a certain amount of time, superhero junkies who do need their fix. But, I think that even most of them would probably sooner get it from watching Heroes on television. But, we shall see. It’s an interesting time at the moment and I think that the whole of comics could be moving into some new territory, which would hopefully throw off a lot of the dross of comics’ origins. Me and Kevin are certainly looking forward to putting all that behind us and breaking some new ground.
The Spinner Rack
By Ben Johnson and Kurt Amacker
DARK HORSE COMICS
Appleseed Vol 1 Promethean Challenge TP New Ptg $14.95
BPRD Killing Ground #4 (Of 5) $2.99
Ben: This is what I named my espresso cart. No one buys anything from me.
Buffy The Vampire Slayer Panel To Panel TP $19.95
Kurt: I know I’ll be called a Whedon-hater for mentioning this, but this just seems unnecessary. It’s just a collection of the best panels of the entire run of Buffy comics, removed from the stories. Sounds like something for die-hard fans only.
Hellboy Animated Vol 3 The Menagerie TP $6.95
Kurt: This is a cute series. The second film in the straight-to-DVD series was the best of the two.
Living With The Dead #2 (Of 3) $2.99
Ben: The conversation sucks, and the smell is terrible, but it still beats marriage.
Kurt: How’s that baby working out for you?
Vampire Hunter D Vol 9 Novel (MR) $8.95
Kurt: I was really looking forward to this series finally coming to the United States, but God, that prose!
DC COMICS
100 Bullets #86 (MR) $2.99
Kurt: I should really read all of the 100 Bullets trades I bought and get up-to-speed, but I’ll probably just put it off until the series concludes.
All Star Superman #9 $2.99
Ben: As much as I’ve enjoyed this series, I have a hard time remembering what happened in previous issues due to long absences.
Kurt: They’re mostly self-contained.
Batman And The Outsiders #1 $2.99
Kurt: Chuck Dixon’s writing it, which means it could go well (or not at all). But, I’m curious as to why we need another Batman series.
Batman And The Outsiders Var Ed #1 $2.99
Batman Strikes #39 $2.25
Black Adam The Dark Age #4 (Of 6) $2.99
Booster Gold #4 $2.99
Captain Carrot And The Final Ark #2 (Of 3) $2.99
Ben: This used to be my favorite comic, but then I turned 28.
Cartoon Network Action Pack #19 $2.25
Countdown To Final Crisis 24 $2.99
Ben: I decided to put away my prejudice and give this a fresh look. After reading it, I killed myself.
Kurt: This means that they have internet access in Hell. I’m saved.
DMZ #25 (MR) $2.99
Ex Machina Vol 6 Power Down TP (MR) $12.99
Fables #67 (MR) $2.99
Ben: The most incredible thing about Fables is how outstanding it is every issue.
Gen 13 #14 $2.99
Green Arrow Black Canary #2 $2.99
Green Arrow Black Canary Var Ed #2 $2.99
JLA Classified #46 $2.99
JLA Ultramarine Corps TP $14.99
Ben: So much cooler than Ranger or Seal.
Kurt: Damn right. Hoo-rah.
Jonah Hex Origins TP $12.99
Kimmie66 $9.99
Ben: Something about this title makes me want to punch Nickelodeon. Weird.
Loeg The Black Dossier HC Standard Edition (MR) $29.99
Kurt: See the past two weeks of Comicscape.
Loeg The Black Dossier HC Variant Edition (MR) $29.99
Kurt: See me tear my hair out.
Mad Kids #9 $4.99
Mad Magazine #484 $3.99
Musashi #9 Vol 13 $9.99
Nightwing #138 (Ghul) $2.99
Salvation Run #1 (Of 7) $2.99
Ben: He wanted to do a triathlon, but the holes in His feet made swimming impossible.
Kurt: Does He know you’re talking about him like that? Remember what he did to that fig tree.
Salvation Run Var Ed #1 (Of 7) $2.99
Showcase Presents TP Sgt Rock Vol 01 $16.99
Simon Dark #2 $2.99
Ben: The first issue was way interesting, but something about it felt very Marvel.
Kurt: I dug it, but it was too brief.
Suicide Squad Raise The Flag #3 (Of 8) $2.99
Superman Batman #42 $2.99
Ben: It would be a kindness to drag this old dog out back and shoot it. Or dynamite – that works well also.
Superman Confidential #9 $2.99
Ben: Psst! Kryptonians don’t have genitals.
Kurt: Did you decide to finally resolve the argument from Mallrats about whether Superman and Lois could get it on?
Teen Titans East Special #1 $3.99
Ben: If it’s half as good as the event in the main title it will suck twice as much.
Teen Titans Go Titans Together TP $12.99
Un-Men #4 (MR) $2.99
Venus In Love Vol 1 $9.99
Ben: Venus rhymes with penis.
Kurt: You just had to say what we were all thinking, right?
Welcome To Tranquility #12 $2.99
Women Of The DC Universe Black Canary Bust $45.00
Ben: That’s nice and all, but her real (wait for it, wait for it) ASSETS are located elsewhere.
Wonder Girl #3 (Of 6) $2.99
Wonder Woman #14 $2.99
Wonder Woman Love And Murder HC $19.99
Ben: Just another weekend at the Johnson residence.
Kurt: Don’t forget about the endless stream of soiled diapers to be changed.
Wonder Woman Var Ed #14 $2.99
World Of Warcraft #1 $2.99
IMAGE COMICS
After The Cape II #1 Seasons In Change (Of 3) $2.99
Ben: The first volume was interesting enough.
Amory Wars #4 (Of 5) $2.99
Ben: Did I already make a mammary joke?
Kurt: I never get tired of talking about boobs.
Brit #3 $2.99
Circle #1 $2.99
Ben: Jerk. Who has the cracker?
Kurt: I am actually at a loss for words.
Girls Complete Collection Dlx HC (MR) $99.99
Girls Complete Collection Dlx Ltd S&N Ed HC (MR) $149.99
Killing Girl #4 (Of 5) (MR) $2.99
Mice Templar #2 $2.99
Kurt: The first issue of this was good. I might keep getting this.
Official Handbook Of The Invincible Universe TP $12.99
Rising Stars Vol 5 Untouchable Visitations TP $16.99
Ben: This is when JMS jumped the shark. What the hell does that even mean though? Jump the shark?
Spawn Godslayer #5 $2.99
Sword #2 $2.99
Wanted GN (New Ptg) $19.99
Ben: Who wouldn’t want a place with over 25 billion metric tons (MT) of bauxite?
MARVEL COMICS
Amazing Spider-Girl #14 $2.99
Amazing Spider-Girl Vol 2 Comes The Carnage TP $13.99
Amazing Spider-Man Omnibus Vol 1 HC (O/A) $99.99
Amazing Spider-Man Omnibus Vol 1 HC Var Ed (O/A) $99.99
Avengers Initiative #7 $2.99
Ben: The best Avengers book on the shelf!! I hope to someday see one of my blurbs on a comic advertisement. Something like:
Captain Marvel #1 (Of 5) $2.99
Ben: The best comic about an alien who died of cancer and came back through a time travel story just in time to work as a warden at a super prison ever!!!! – Ben Johnson, Mania.com
Civil War Chronicles #5 $4.99
Ben: I wish Marvel would release all of their big stories in this format from the start.
Kurt: Yes, but then you wouldn’t have to buy it twice.
Excalibur Classic Vol 4 Crosstime Caper Book 2 TP $24.99
Fantastic Four New Fantastic Four Prem HC $19.99
Ben: And I wish Marvel would take their premium hardcover releases and insert them sideways.
Fantastic Four Omnibus HC (O/A) PI
Fantastic Four Omnibus HC Var Dust Jacket (O/A) PI
Ghost Rider #17 $2.99
Ghost Rider Annual #1 $3.99
Ben: It’s what gives his flame that eerie yellow glow.
Kurt: You’re an a—hole.
House Of M Avengers #1 (Of 5) $2.99
Ben: *sigh
Iron Man Power Pack #1 (Of 4) $2.99
Kurt: Sweet! Al Brown has returned!
Marvel Adventures Avengers Vol 4 Digest TP $6.99
Marvel Adventures Hulk #5 $2.99
Marvel Comics Presents #3 $3.99
Marvel Illustrated Man In The Iron Mask #5 (Of 6) $2.99
Ben: The Bradbury, Dumas crossover we’ve all been waiting for.
New Avengers #36 $2.99
Ben: The best Bendis book that is made up almost entirely of lame, uninteresting dialog ever!!! Ben Johnson, Mania.com
Nova #8 $2.99
Ben: The fact that I get excited about the latest issue of Nova makes me feel weird.
Punisher #52 (MR) $2.99
Punisher War Journal #13 $2.99
Spider-Man Red Sonja #4 (Of 5) $2.99
Thor #4 $2.99
Ultimate Fantastic Four #48 $2.99
Ultimates Saga $3.99
Ben: A wrap-up of the 25 issue series that originally started production in 1342.
Kurt: You mean, like, before comics even existed? Yes, this series has been unbelievably slow and late.
Uncanny X-Men Omnibus Vol 1 HC (O/A) $99.99
Kurt: I guess Marvel is reissuing all of these omnibus volumes that were supposedly out of print.
Uncanny X-Men Omnibus Vol 1 HC Var (O/A) $99.99
Wolverine #59 $2.99
Wolverine Origins Vol 3 Swift And Terrible TP $13.99
Kurt: Here, I’m just going to make the joke for everyone that doesn’t like this series: “You mean, just like reading Wolverine Origins? Yuck, yuck.”
World War Hulk #5 (Of 5) WWH $3.99
Ben: Eye can’t weight too show Kurt how good eye am at righting. When. I. Do. The. Column. For. This.
Kurt: U will due this four nekst weak, so that eye can half the day awf two dreenk.
World War Hulk Romita Jr Var #5 (Of 5) $3.99
X-Factor #25 MC $2.99
X-Factor Campbell Var #25 MC $2.99
X-Men Die By The Sword #3 (Of 5) $2.99
Thanks for the effort and giving me the space to provide feedback.