8 Movies That Have Not Aged Well Comments - Mania.com


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Wiseguy 1/16/2010 8:42:35 AM

Kara I'm going to call on you everytime I have this argument because you make very solid points all around on why Burton's Batman is better. Or you know what, I'm just going to copy and paste that last comment everytime this comes up.

karas1 1/16/2010 9:12:32 AM

Go for it Wiseguy.

Tonebone 1/16/2010 10:42:14 AM

I completely disagree with Batman being on this list. As well as Superman 1 and 2. Flawed movies? Yes. But none are perfect.

karas1 1/16/2010 11:09:32 AM

With Batman and Superman I think it's more a question of popular tastes changing more than any flaw in the films themselves.  They look a little cheesy and campy compared to TDK or Ironman, but at the time they were made everybody marveled at how seriously the comic book heroes were being taken.

keithdaniel 1/16/2010 2:27:57 PM

Kara,I hate to break it to you and Wiseguy,but there isn't one arguement that you've made that I won't shoot down or haven't already! You're wrong about the Burton Batman film being marveled at the time because they were being taken seriously. It was marveled because it was a big step up from the super-campfest bullsh$t that the Adam West feature from the 60's was and always will be! It wasn't because it was made for a young audince,it had no strong story,it was very miscast,Burton didn't take the overall material seriously by making it too much tongue in cheek,and it's easy to see,especially now more then before. Burton and the studio were more interested in entertaining than creating a real story. I have seen Burton's Batman(1989)about a week ago on Spike and it was too much of a campfest at times. Mind you,I was surprised at how much I found myself enjoying it. It was entertaining for what it was,a guilty pleasure.

Kara,if anything,you've made my case in a big way because you've admitted more or less that because the Nicholson Joker had less purpose then that made him more unpridictable. So what? Ledger's Joker is way the hell scarier and formidible because he did have an axe to grind with society! Creatively speaking,there's nothing wrong or less intimidating or dangerous about Ledger's Joker because he had those reasons. Someone who's insane can still have real motives for their actions! Ledger's Joker did his share of robbing and killing but that wasn't enough because he wanted to send the whole city of Gotham into chaos. He wanted to attack Gotham in a number of ways including psychologically! Not from the bottom up,but from the top down. From the assassination of a police commissioner to judges,from causing turnmoil among his fellow mobsters to insiting fear and panic within the city's own police and citizens. He wanted to break not only people,but their morals and show that they're no better than him. JN's Joker didn't insite the kind of fear and dread that the Ledger Joker inspired. I found Ledger's Joker scarier and much more interesting because he had REAL PURPOSE to his actions. JN's Joker just committed crimes because he could or because that's what the weak script called for(The Joker shouldn't be so simple). Kara,you virtually admitted that when you said before that you left feeling depressed after watching TDK. If the JN Joker was so much scarier then HL's version then why didn't feel the same way after watching the Burton Batman? You're starting to contridict yourself!

Just because someone's motives is revealed,doesn't mean that he/she is easy to catch. In TDK,it took the combined forces of Batman,Harvey Dent,and Lieutenant Jim Gordon just to draw out the Joker,let alone capture him. They knew that the Joker wanted to turn the city upside down so to speak,but they had no idea how he was going to do so. In other words,they knew his general strategy but not his tactics and that's why they had such a hard time trying to catch him. I would hardly call that predictable. HL's Joker had bought off a good number of the police and had Gotham in such fear that even Jim Gordon wasn't sure who among his own he could trust. In TDK,the Joker had the city in such fear that they demanded that Batman turn himself in and he nearly did which never happened in the Burton Batman. In TDK,Batman/Bruce Wayne goes to the point where he states,"I now see what I have to become to stop men like him."(the Joker,of course)He ends up creating a computer system in his Batcave where he monitors the communication devices of virtually everyone in Gotham. Luxius Fox tells him that it's too much power for one man to have and so Batman finds himself coming painfully close to proving Harvey Dent's statement,"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villian." Excellent lines and way the hell more thought-provoking then anything in Burton's Batman! Ledger's Joker is so much better than Nicholson's because he drove Batman much further to crossing the line  (almost becoming that which he wanted to fight against) than anything that the JN Joker had done in Burton's Batman!

Hello,Kara,it's you who needs to go back and watch not only Burton's Batman but a real Batman! film,TDK! Are you an actor? If you're not,I'm not saying that you're not still entitled to a decent opinion but as an actor myself,I know the difference between what we call "ACTING" and "BECOMING THE ROLE" and as an actor who's gone to acting school and who has worked on professional film/tv sets,trust me,I'm a much better judge of that than you are! I don't know how many more times that I have to tell you that JN's Joker was PLAYING TOO OFTEN and was too TONGUE-IN-CHEEK for me to take him as seriously as the Joker character should be and I didn't find him scary at all because when you play too much over the top like that,it becomes CAMP! I don't find that scary in the least and if you do than I guess some are more easily scared than others! (HAHA!! I'm just playing with you,Kara!!) I find it amazing that you see the Burton Batman film as being a sort of fantasy and yet the JN Joker scares you more than the Nolan's TDK even though that seams much more realistic and likely to happen than Burton's version! Kara,just because you like JN's Joker more doesn't mean he was better than HL's Joker. For example,just because someone may enjoy a food doesn't mean that it's good for you or that it's better than anything else.

The Nolan Batman films returned both Batman and the Joker where they belong,in the world of crime-drama. That's where their roots are(All one has to do is look back and verify that for themselves!)not the "fantasy," flash and dash,sanitized,campfest that was the Burton Batman(as much as I enjoy it for what it is!) To me,the latter Burton version was borderline "Superfriends" or Batman animation from early the 80's and I grew up from that a long time ago,so I don't take it seriously as a film,just fun entertainment.

keithdaniel 1/16/2010 2:47:48 PM

Kara,aside from the entertainment factor that we both see from the Burton Batman(1989),the only other point that I share with you is that it's a matter of taste. I'm certainly not saying you're wrong for liking what you like! All I'm debating is some of the reasons that you've given for your assertions of why you think that the Burton version is better than the Nolan Batman or why you think that the JN Joker is better than HL's Joker. C'EST TOUT!!!

karas1 1/16/2010 6:25:11 PM

Keith, I think we see the same things in both films but since we are looking for different things in films, the same things that we see are giving us different oppinions.  It's all a matter of taste.  I like the more fantasy oriented Batman and you like the more realistic Batman.  It's all good.  That both films exist means that there are films for both of us to enjoy.

da82kid 1/18/2010 6:48:35 PM

Here's an idea: Since all 8 of these movies 'suck' so bad, let's get Uwe Boll to remake all eight of them and then let Mania.com's Joe Osterele be a creative consultant. That'll redeem all of the trauma and heartbreak these 8 movies have caused the world.

keithdaniel 1/19/2010 10:33:17 AM

One last thing,I made a factual error in one of my comments above. I had stated that Batman had created a supercomputer in the Batcave,where he could monitor the cell calls of virtually everyone in Gotham,but the supercomputer was actually in one of the towers of Wayne Industries. I thank the audience for their understanding!

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