Puella Magi Madoka Magica Discussion Thread

[Fencedude]

The first of which is this. Can Homura even use the power on people aside from herself? If not then using it on Madoka would be impossible.

Her time-stop power does, so no indication the time-jump one can't. Besides, using it that way would allow her to create her own harem of Madokas. Doesn't matter if the show goes there or not, someone needs to make a doujinshi about it.


There is absolutely know indication that she physically travels back in time.

[TAS]

The first of which is this. Can Homura even use the power on people aside from herself? If not then using it on Madoka would be impossible.

Her time-stop power does, so no indication the time-jump one can't. Besides, using it that way would allow her to create her own harem of Madokas. Doesn't matter if the show goes there or not, someone needs to make a doujinshi about it.


There is absolutely know indication that she physically travels back in time.There is only one Homura, so she replaces the old Homura when she jumps back, there are physical changes in her each loop so it could be physical. So even if she could take Madoka back, there would still only be one if it worked the same for her.

[Ashyukun]

Let Ume-sensei write it.
I'd watch that in a heartbeat.

This does beg another question I've had for a while... is Ume-sensei watching this herself? [/quote]

Edit: lol! Madoka's been followed by Rio this entire season? Talk about major mood whiplash
Yeah... that's about as bad as the original double-feature pairing for Grave of the Fireflies... :depressed:

[Fencedude]

This does beg another question I've had for a while... is Ume-sensei watching this herself?

I've heard she's being traumatized ;_;

[TheGreenMan]

This does beg another question I've had for a while... is Ume-sensei watching this herself?

I've heard she's being traumatized ;_;


I heard she was really pissed off after the 3rd episode.

[something]

I heard she was really pissed off after the 3rd episode.
I'd take that with a huge grain of salt. I'm sure she's as in on the joke as everyone else on staff.

[MelancholicMariya]

In other news, Shinbou is teasing at a Madoka spinoff (http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=288891). A nice happy heartwarming slice of life spinoff.


Now that you've said it, Shinbo, you have to do it. I would like it as an Eva@School thing, where the enemies and stuff are actual characters. Such as in Eva@School Eva Unit 01 was a character, in Madoka Happy Version Charlotte could be a character who eats head shaped biscuits.

My idea is clearly terrible and fell apart exactly when I started to seriously think about it.

Either way I'd love to see a version which is a bit more cheerful, but I honestly think it'd have to be a completely different timeline/universe because being gloomy and crazy is kind of Madoka Magica's thing, and it's unique for a magical girl show, so you can't exactly have it in the same timeline unless the ending of the series ends on such a high-note nothing bad ever happens again.

[bear]

In other news, Shinbou is teasing at a Madoka spinoff (http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=288891). A nice happy heartwarming slice of life spinoff.

......

Either way I'd love to see a version which is a bit more cheerful, but I honestly think it'd have to be a completely different timeline/universe because being gloomy and crazy is kind of Madoka Magica's thing, and it's unique for a magical girl show, so you can't exactly have it in the same timeline unless the ending of the series ends on such a high-note nothing bad ever happens again.

They may be messing with us given how they played the cutesy OP before they bit a girls head off.

[UEHacker]

"Hey let's make a cutesy spinoff" *episode 3 of the spinoff rolls around* "LOL YOU THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE HAPPY?"

[Fencedude]

It could work as an intense, emotional relationship drama.

No magic, no witches.

Two triangles form immediately, Homura->Madoka<-Mami and Kyouko->Sayaka->Kyousuke

I can elaborate more, if someone so desires.

[something]

It could work as an intense, emotional relationship drama.
I dunno, I think the only way they cold spinoff Madoka without somehow taking away from the original for me is to just go full-out cutesy parody comedy that doesn't take itself remotely seriously. Like, the kind of thing I'd expect from a comedic 4koma-like parody of the show. Like a Haruhi-chan or Churuya-san type spinoff. I'm not sure I'd want to see the same characters put in a different situation but handled just as seriously. If they want to do that, I'd just say use new characters - we could always use more original anime.

[Ingraman]

lol! Madoka's been followed by Rio this entire season? Talk about major mood whiplash

What the crap!? That... no. I can't watch anything after watching Madoka. I can't imagine trying to watch Rio afterwards. Rio first the Madoka maybe.

Heh... The example isn't quite the same, but it made me wonder which film came first in the My Neighbor Totoro/Grave of the Fireflies double feature when the films were playing in Japanese theatres. I'd guess that they played in that order, but Nausicaa.net seems to indicate that the order was up to the theatres.

Edit: Ah, I see that the Madoka/Rio tag team had Ashyukun thinking about the Ghibli pair, too.

[Fencedude]

It could work as an intense, emotional relationship drama.
I dunno, I think the only way they cold spinoff Madoka without somehow taking away from the original for me is to just go full-out cutesy parody comedy that doesn't take itself remotely seriously. Like, the kind of thing I'd expect from a comedic 4koma-like parody of the show. Like a Haruhi-chan or Churuya-san type spinoff. I'm not sure I'd want to see the same characters put in a different situation but handled just as seriously. If they want to do that, I'd just say use new characters - we could always use more original anime.

Assuming they all end up dead (very likely), they could do a story explicitly set in their afterlife. Which would be hilarious, in a bizarre, Madoka sort of way.

Mami would be walking around with Charlotte sitting on her head.

[MelancholicMariya]

On a surprising note, ANN reported this story of Shinbo wanting to do a slice of life and the majority of the comment's hate the idea.

I'm not really sure why ANN as a whole seems to hate anything slice-of-life or, as they put it, "K-ON! like" but I honestly think this will be a good idea, as a second season depending on the ending or an alternate universe.

No doubt now that he's said it this has to happen and probably everyone in Japan and their dog will eat it up.

A second season of magical witch murder would be lovely too though. Or an End of Evangelion like movie, again depending on the ending we're given.

[something]

Assuming they all end up dead (very likely), they could do a story explicitly set in their afterlife. Which would be hilarious, in a bizarre, Madoka sort of way.
Mami would be walking around with Charlotte sitting on her head.
Oh absolutely. A lot of great fanart is about that so I'd totally watch it.

the commentsANN
I'm sorry, you went horribly wrong at this point. Don't combine the two, it's disastrous for your mental health.

[Ashyukun]

I dunno, I think the only way they cold spinoff Madoka without somehow taking away from the original for me is to just go full-out cutesy parody comedy that doesn't take itself remotely seriously. Like, the kind of thing I'd expect from a comedic 4koma-like parody of the show. Like a Haruhi-chan or Churuya-san type spinoff. I'm not sure I'd want to see the same characters put in a different situation but handled just as seriously. If they want to do that, I'd just say use new characters - we could always use more original anime.

Assuming they all end up dead (very likely), they could do a story explicitly set in their afterlife. Which would be hilarious, in a bizarre, Madoka sort of way.

Mami would be walking around with Charlotte sitting on her head.
I'd watch/read that- we've already seen through tons of fanart that done right the whole afterlife thing- especially with Mami & Charlotte- can be a lot of fun. A Haruhi-chan-esque parody of their lives in the afterlife (I find myself hoping that EVERYONE- parents included- die so we can have amusing moments with Madoka's Mom...) taking all of the characters' personalities to the extreme could be a lot of fun.

Of course, the running fan gag of Madoka getting into trouble (forgot her lunch, lost her pen, etc.) and Homura intercepting Kyubey's attempts to get her to make a contract to solve her problem would also work too.

[MelancholicMariya]

I'm sorry, you went horribly wrong at this point. Don't combine the two, it's disastrous for your mental health.

You're right in every way, I just like hurting myself by getting angry and amused at ignorant comments such as "I don't need none of that moé shit because it's shit" and "moé shit is killing the industry here is the evidence blah blah."

But to them moé is a genre so expecting an educated post from someone there is waiting for a miracle to happen.

Though to get a little back on topic I would like some more Charlotte, in any form. Even if it's just one of Aniplex's art cards inside the BD case. Any would do. Though I guess that's what Pixiv is for.

[Ashyukun]

Though to get a little back on topic I would like some more Charlotte, in any form. Even if it's just one of Aniplex's art cards inside the BD case. Any would do. Though I guess that's what Pixiv is for.
I'm assuming if (or rather, WHEN) they make a Mami Nendo that she'll come with at least a to-scale Charlotte if not an alternate 'head'. :sweat:

Including cards with the BDs would be quite cool though.

[EmperorBrandon]

When the interviewer suggested that a different, "heartwarming" version of the story might be enjoyable to watch, Shinbo responded that such a version could have a bath scene, deal with the teacher Kazuko Saotome's romantic life, or cover the attempt of Madoka's mother to join a company. He added that if he can, he would like to do a second season or a side story of their characters' daily lives.

Hey, I think I would be all up for that. Given how story-centric Madoka has been (and not to its detriment at all, but that's how it is), there's been very little of the side characters like the teacher who seems rather eccentric. I'd be curious to know more about them. :)

[MelancholicMariya]

Though to get a little back on topic I would like some more Charlotte, in any form. Even if it's just one of Aniplex's art cards inside the BD case. Any would do. Though I guess that's what Pixiv is for.
I'm assuming if (or rather, WHEN) they make a Mami Nendo that she'll come with at least a to-scale Charlotte if not an alternate 'head'. :sweat:

Including cards with the BDs would be quite cool though.

I did see a picture of a Madoka Nendo so I am pretty sure Mami will come very soon, preferably right now. Please. With additional Charlotte.

[angelx03]

On a surprising note, ANN reported this story of Shinbo wanting to do a slice of life and the majority of the comment's hate the idea.

I'm not really sure why ANN as a whole seems to hate anything slice-of-life or, as they put it, "K-ON! like" but I honestly think this will be a good idea, as a second season depending on the ending or an alternate universe.


It's more in line of they don't want this series to lose its integrity of what makes Madoka Magica great; it'll be utterly foolish if they try to fit it in the same timeline.

However, they are willing to accept this if it's some form of a comedic spinoff in the vein say Fumoffu or Haruhi-chan where they could take the opportunity to make fun of the concepts found in Madoka Magica (like have Kyuubey get killed in every episode like Kenny in South Park).

[MelancholicMariya]

On a surprising note, ANN reported this story of Shinbo wanting to do a slice of life and the majority of the comment's hate the idea.

I'm not really sure why ANN as a whole seems to hate anything slice-of-life or, as they put it, "K-ON! like" but I honestly think this will be a good idea, as a second season depending on the ending or an alternate universe.


It's more in line of they don't want this series to lose its integrity of what makes Madoka Magica great; it'll be utterly foolish if they try to fit it in the same timeline.

However, they are willing to accept this if it's some form of a comedic spinoff in the vein say Fumoffu or Haruhi-chan where they could take the opportunity to make fun of the concepts found in Madoka Magica (like have Kyuubey get killed in every episode like Kenny in South Park).

I believe with Shinbo's sense of humor it'd be either more like Hidamari Sketch or it'd be more like Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. By that I mean heartwarming or playing on the tropes of the characters.

Also you saying Kyubey getting killed every episode kind of reminds me of how Chuck was beaten almost every episode in Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt.

[strangefour]

Also you saying Kyubey getting killed every episode kind of reminds me of how Chuck was beaten almost every episode in Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt.

I don't like the idea of a Madoka spin off. But I would watch the hell out of Everybody Hates Kyubey!

[Suwako Moriya]

Assuming they all end up dead (very likely), they could do a story explicitly set in their afterlife. Which would be hilarious, in a bizarre, Madoka sort of way.

Well, having a story set in the afterlife would at least be some consolation. Assuming they're of course actually allowed to have a positive one.

[Ashyukun]

One example of how a gag-parody could work well: Little Magica (http://danbooru.donmai.us/pool/show/3163)

[Shiroi Hane]

There's also a parody doujin series on Pixiv where Homura appears to be after Madoka's pee for some reason.

[something]

There's also a parody doujin series on Pixiv where Homura appears to be after Madoka's pee for some reason.

We can skip animating that one.

[Buckeye]

There's also a parody doujin series on Pixiv where Homura appears to be after Madoka's pee for some reason.

We can skip animating that one.

You're right about that one. That can go by the wayside for what it is worth, anyway.

[something]

Here's an unforeseen consequence of the postponement...

I was reading on yaraon (http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-1232.html) and yunakiti that Megami magazine has planned a feature (a whole separate supplement, it sounds like) on Madoka for the May issue (release: March 30th) that will include, as mentioned below, summary/highlights from all episodes, and that means ending spoilers. There will also be some discussion with the seiyuu that will presumably touch on the ending as well.

Now obviously, it was intended that Madoka's broadcast would be complete right as this issue went to market, but the delay clearly happened too late for them to adjust publication schedules. Now episode 12 won't air until after this volume is in the hands of thousands of otaku everywhere.

3月30日に発売される「Megami MAGAZINE (メガミマガジン) 5月号」の予約受付が、Amazonで開始された。

5月号には、別冊付録として「魔法少女まどか☆マギカ」の小冊子を用意。
脚本を手掛けた虚淵玄さんのインタビューをはじめ、各話の見どころ、
魔法少女を演じた5人の声優による座談会、設定資料集、魔女の設定画などが掲載される。

Bottom line? Turn off the internet as soon as this issue comes out! It should go without saying (but I say it anyway!) that the spoilers are very much not welcome in this thread, should anyone be overcome by curiosity and read up before airing.

Be careful, be verrry careful. And avoid May 2010 Megami issue poster scans like the plague!

Edit:

Urobuchi was asked about this and replied that they rewrote the article before it went out:
It looks like Urobuchi has tweeted (http://twitter.com/Butch_Gen/status/50330851321458689) about the Megami Magazine spoilers thing. Here's the translation given on the Puella Magi Wiki (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Translated_Official_Documents#Episode_11_broadcast ):
Hm? There's a reply to me worrying about spoilers in Megami Magazine. Good thing that we've rewrote the article on the last minute. There should be no hard spoilers for an episode that hasn't been broadcasted. What's there is a more completed 'teaser', if someone do mind that please do warn about it.
Seems like it's not going to be severe, but I guess people who want to go in on a completely blank slate still need to be extremely cautious.

[TheGreenMan]

Be careful, be verrry careful. And avoid May 2010 Megami issue poster scans like the plague!

But the poster scans are one of the highlights for the month for me. Argh.

[something]

But the poster scans are one of the highlights for the month for me. Argh.
They'll still be there a week or two later when the episode airs. =P

Besides, the Megami/Nyantype Madoka ones have been... not bad, but not amazing either. I guess the best was the Mami/Madoka swimsuit one.

[Vegard Aune]

Bottom line? Turn off the internet as soon as this issue comes out! It should go without saying (but I say it anyway!) that the spoilers are very much not welcome in this thread, should anyone be overcome by curiosity and read up before airing.

Be careful, be verrry careful. And avoid May 2010 Megami issue poster scans like the plague!
Thanks for the warning.. Knowing myself, I definitely would have ended up getting spoiled if nobody said anything... Although also knowing myself, I'm probably gonna fail horribly at avoiding said spoilers anyway... :sweat:

...And by the way, just wanted confirmation, was episode 11 airing this week or the next?

[EmperorBrandon]

Now episode 12 won't air until after this volume is in the hands of thousands of otaku everywhere.

Isn't it possible episode 11 still won't have aired by then either? We don't have confirmation on it yet.

Well, I don't think is going to be too big of a problem for me to avoid with a little extra restraint since I barely venture into places where spoilers would be harder to avoid and I tend to trust people around here usually know better. Just need to reinforce my usual habit of not visiting other sites and blacklist Madoka on any booru I visit.

[Ashyukun]

I need to remember to dig up the iOS Twitter client that lets you define tags that it cause it to not display the tweet so I can filter out any involving this show once that comes out. Not that I expect anyone I follow (outside of the Japanese staff, who I just won't be using the translation capabilities on :p) to be reading/spoiling it... But, better safe than spoiled...

[something]

...And by the way, just wanted confirmation, was episode 11 airing this week or the next?
Not sure we'll know definitively until raws start flitting around, to be honest.

::checks::

MBS did have Madoka listed for Friday the 25th at 01:39AM (aka Thursday the 24th at 25:39) as recently as a few days ago, but it's gone now, replaced with カルテット (Quartet, whatever that is - unfortunately not a reference to the "Magical Quartet" production committee for Madoka, I'm sure).

And yet they still have Rio on the schedule after it and Basara after that. Bah.

[EmperorBrandon]

It looks like Urobuchi has tweeted (http://twitter.com/Butch_Gen/status/50330851321458689) about the Megami Magazine spoilers thing. Here's the translation given on the Puella Magi Wiki (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Translated_Official_Documents#Episode_11_broadcast ):
Hm? There's a reply to me worrying about spoilers in Megami Magazine. Good thing that we've rewrote the article on the last minute. There should be no hard spoilers for an episode that hasn't been broadcasted. What's there is a more completed 'teaser', if someone do mind that please do warn about it.
Seems like it's not going to be severe, but I guess people who want to go in on a completely blank slate still need to be extremely cautious.

[something]

It looks like Urobuchi has tweeted (http://twitter.com/Butch_Gen/status/50330851321458689) about the Megami Magazine spoilers thing. Here's the translation given on the Puella Magi Wiki (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Translated_Official_Documents#Episode_11_broadcast ):
Hm? There's a reply to me worrying about spoilers in Megami Magazine. Good thing that we've rewrote the article on the last minute. There should be no hard spoilers for an episode that hasn't been broadcasted. What's there is a more completed 'teaser', if someone do mind that please do warn about it.
Seems like it's not going to be severe, but I guess people who want to go in on a completely blank slate still need to be extremely cautious.

Gooooood news. Glad we got some clarity on that. Still something to avoid like the plague, but at least they won't be arming anti-Madoka trolls with spoilers of mass destruction.

[Evil SDude]

What happens when Homura decides she needs MORE firepower! (http://konachan.com/post/show/99873/akemi_homura-mahou_shoujo_madoka_magica):laugh::sd:

[William K]

MBS did have Madoka listed for Friday the 25th at 01:39AM (aka Thursday the 24th at 25:39) as recently as a few days ago, but it's gone now, replaced with カルテット (Quartet, whatever that is - unfortunately not a reference to the "Magical Quartet" production committee for Madoka, I'm sure).

And yet they still have Rio on the schedule after it and Basara after that. Bah.

Quartet is a TV series that previously aired before Madoka. It looks like there is no Madoka this week but with Quartet showing its final episode, maybe they're planning to show 11 and 12 back-to-back next Thursday?

[strangefour]

It looks like Urobuchi has tweeted (http://twitter.com/Butch_Gen/status/50330851321458689) about the Megami Magazine spoilers thing. Here's the translation given on the Puella Magi Wiki (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Translated_Official_Documents#Episode_11_broadcast ):
Hm? There's a reply to me worrying about spoilers in Megami Magazine. Good thing that we've rewrote the article on the last minute. There should be no hard spoilers for an episode that hasn't been broadcasted. What's there is a more completed 'teaser', if someone do mind that please do warn about it.
Seems like it's not going to be severe, but I guess people who want to go in on a completely blank slate still need to be extremely cautious.

Gooooood news. Glad we got some clarity on that. Still something to avoid like the plague, but at least they won't be arming anti-Madoka trolls with spoilers of mass destruction.

Teasers are bad too! But it could have been worse.

[TheGreenMan]

...And by the way, just wanted confirmation, was episode 11 airing this week or the next?
Not sure we'll know definitively until raws start flitting around, to be honest.

::checks::

MBS did have Madoka listed for Friday the 25th at 01:39AM (aka Thursday the 24th at 25:39) as recently as a few days ago, but it's gone now, replaced with カルテット (Quartet, whatever that is - unfortunately not a reference to the "Magical Quartet" production committee for Madoka, I'm sure).

And yet they still have Rio on the schedule after it and Basara after that. Bah.

I really hope this doesn't turn into "Wait for the DVDs for the last episodes". I remember KashiMashi *shudders*. I guess they could just stream the last two episodes.

[angelx03]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-03-23/madoka-magica-airing-streaming-delayed-for-now

:depressed::depressed:

[Suwako Moriya]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-03-23/madoka-magica-airing-streaming-delayed-for-now

:depressed::depressed:

I'm depressed enough to.... wait, someone else can make the obvious comment.

[Ashyukun]

I'm depressed enough to.... wait, someone else can make the obvious comment.
Don't do it! Ignore the demonic alien ferret!

I haven't had the time to go through the new fan art for a few days... I have to imagine someone has done a comic along these lines... with Homura for once not able to bring herself to stop Madoka. :sd:

[something]

delay stuff
"Update: The official Twitter account of the anime reports that while the regular broadcast has changed, the staff is still aiming for the middle of April to get through the final episode."

I'll believe it when I see it though. At this point it seems hard to pin it purely on the earthquake/tsunami given that most other shows seem to be back, and some never stopped. Also given Urobuchi's admission that Shaft was barely getting the episodes done as it was, before the disaster. And frankly it showed at times - I rewatched the first few episodes recently and had to cringe at some of the character art. Looks to me like we're getting SHAFTed with Madoka after all, albeit not yet as bad as Bake.

In other news, Madoka is already up to like 18,000 or so Amazon Stalker points, delaying the volume a whole month will... shit who knows? It's already holding off frickin' Ghibli for #1 at Amazon (it only gave up the spot for about half a day! Of course, Ghibli will be more evenly split BD and DVD and will sell better at traditional retailers, so I'm not implying Madoka will outsell Arrietty :sd:) and either Vol. 5 or Vol. 1 have constantly been #1 for a good while now. It's almost impossible to predict how well it'll sell now.

[MelancholicMariya]

Hey, at least Madoka Magica's BD's now have a date. It's what I assumed would happen but it's nice to have a date.

It's also great for me because I can save up even more for potentially get more than just 3 BD's and just get them all.

Though I am happy SHAFT is trying to finish the series by the middle of April.

[Mafty Allegro]

"Why hasn't Madoka become a Magical Girl yet?"

She's already been one! Four times, at least!

"I don't think Madoka will survive by the end of the series."

Of course she won't. Because she dies every single time!


Ep. 10 left me utterly speechless and my mind completely blown. Not just because of the supreme screwiness of it all or its deft execution, but because of the truth behind the entire series. The different, but all-too-familiar iterations, the reasons behind certain actions (down to why Homura doesn't care for Sayaka) and why things are the way they are (i.e. Homura's mission and personality), and the consequences of it all made episode as surreal as it was great. Certain suspicions were verified, but they were still compelling to watch and stirred up a slew of other questions (ex.: Is the gear-bottomed Walpurgisnacht really Witch-Homura? Is Madoka forever fated to die, no matter what? Less MGs=Power consolidation among the few around?). To think that all we have seen has been part of a time loop that's on, at least, its fifth go-around (which worsens each time and ends the same: Madoka's dies/transforms into a Witch) is just staggering, especially since the one doing the time travelling has to live through and experience each tragic period of time (the prologue must've been maddening…). No matter how heartfelt and noble her efforts, it's seemingly all for naught.

As many powerful moments as there were in Ep. 10, the best was when Homura and Madoka were about to turn into Witches, as the latter spared the former and requested that she'd stop her past self from making her wish before asking for a mercy killing, setting up the Homura we see today. Who would have thought that the same aloof, clumsy girl from the beginning would turn out to be the cool-and-confident type, taking Madoka's previous advice to heart. Similar to Kyouko, the events of the episode place an entirely new spin on her character, but in a believable light. Madoka herself is in the same vein, as we see that she was actually confident and more outgoing, before.

As is often the case with Madoka Magica, just when you think you figured out all of the answers, ten more questions pop up. It seems clearer now that it will end up as a "Destiny-vs-Fate" ending, and with it coming down to Homura and Madoka once more, who knows what lies in store, as there are few other avenues to go but for Madoka to lend her assistance as a Magical Girl. I guess based on the Magia cover (though I don't want to overemphasize it right now), Homura might let Madoka become a MG and train her up quick so they could get past WN alive and with as little corruption as possible. If Homura uses her experience in fighting WN, along with the numerous events concerning Madoka's involvement, she might have a good enough idea of how to get her to harness her powers and not go all out in destroying WN (and thus becoming totally tainted). Of course, there is a great deal of irony in that, and it would make for a heartening sight. There is so much more potential to be had with the series, and it's great to see something like it clicking on all cylinders, especially for an original series. And it's not afraid of taking chances, either…

As for the surprising amount Homura-hate over the problems caused by her time looping and her perceived selfishness, I can hardly blame her for the decisions she's made given each circumstance and the impact Madoka had made on her life. On the Homura/black cat front, I'm getting closer to thinking that either: 1) The cat will be a reincarnated form of Homura, or 2) Homura dies, Madoka comes across a black cat, and names it after her. It would be a nice way of showing Homura always being there for Madoka… If there was one drawback in an otherwise exemplary episode, it's that the animation could have been better in spots, such as the close-up on Mami when she snapped. However, the superb quality of the episode more than made up any form of visual distraction.

Regardless, Ep. 10 firmly entrenched Madoka Magica as one of the most messed-up shows in anime history. And that's a good thing… ;)

And playing the OP at the end, after learning everything that we learned? Brilliant.



Madoka is probably the most draining show I've ever watched, I would have sworn that nothing could leave me more shocked than episode 3. But then there was episode 6. And then episode 8. And then episode 9. And now EPISODE 10.

WHAT MORE CAN THIS SHOW DO TO US?!

Indeed… indeed…

[something]

and stirred up a slew of other questions (ex.: Is the gear-bottomed Walpurgisnacht really Witch-Homura?
It cant be because we've already seen Homura fighting it while very much alive. Unless you meant that's one of the questions that is now answered.

As for the surprising amount Homura-hate
There's Homura hate? Well, not here or the couple other places I go, so I'm glad I avoid any places dumb enough to hate her given how well episode 10 explained her.

[Fencedude]

So yeah, the witch cards finally came out on the website.

And holy crap Kriemhild Gretchen (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Kriemhild_Gretchen)

[Isuzu Inugami]

So yeah, the witch cards finally came out on the website.

And holy crap Kriemhild Gretchen (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Kriemhild_Gretchen)

Ack! So am I supposed to be for her, or against her? :sweat:

[HitokiriShadow]

So yeah, the witch cards finally came out on the website.

And holy crap Kriemhild Gretchen (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Kriemhild_Gretchen)

I don't remember them showing Madoka actually turning into a witch. I take it that was something added in for the Nico Nico version?

[Fencedude]

So yeah, the witch cards finally came out on the website.

And holy crap Kriemhild Gretchen (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Kriemhild_Gretchen)

I don't remember them showing Madoka actually turning into a witch. I take it that was something added in for the Nico Nico version?

She turned into a witch in the 2nd and 4th timelines.

In the Nico Broadcast, they added her name on the fourth timelineone.

[HitokiriShadow]

So yeah, the witch cards finally came out on the website.

And holy crap Kriemhild Gretchen (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Kriemhild_Gretchen)

I don't remember them showing Madoka actually turning into a witch. I take it that was something added in for the Nico Nico version?

She turned into a witch in the 2nd and 4th timelines.

In the Nico Broadcast, they added her name on the fourth timelineone.

I know she turned into one, but I don't remember it showing the actual transformation. I don't remember seeing that picture on the bottom (second from the left) in the episode at any point.

[something]

I know she turned into one, but I don't remember it showing the actual transformation. I don't remember seeing that picture on the bottom (second from the left) in the episode at any point.
It was there, but it was quite brief. Maybe a second or two?

Also, jeeze, I kind of wish I didn't read the card description. Maybe it'll turn out to be of no consequence but right now it feels as if it reveals far too much of her nature.

[Sly05]

Also, jeeze, I kind of wish I didn't read the card description. Maybe it'll turn out to be of no consequence but right now it feels as if it reveals far too much of her nature.

I guess it will depend on whether we see Madoka transforming into a witch in this iteration of the events. It does make me wonder what Madoka's "heaven" is like and how it differs from the mazes of lesser witches. I have been curious for a while whether the witches see their mazes differently than the horrifying abstract art worlds experienced by the regular humans and mahou shoujo who enter them.

[bluesilo]

Maybe in an alternate timeline we'd be watching episode 11 today. :(

[Suwako Moriya]

Maybe in an alternate timeline we'd be watching episode 11 today. :(

Homura: It took me 799 tries, but I managed to save Madoka.

Madoka: You even managed to bring happiness to Kyouko and Sayaka.

Mami: For once I didn't suffer a painful death.

Kyouko and Sayaka: <Too busy kissing to say anything>

QB: I developed a heart and it grew three (thousand) sizes.

*Insert positive and sappy stuff here*

Homura: This timeline, it's perfect. It's like the ultimate happy ending!

Madoka: Look! Episode 11 of our series still hasn't aired yet.

Homura: Darn it! Time for try number 800!

[Buckeye]

Maybe in an alternate timeline we'd be watching episode 11 today. :(
I am guessing that would make the day of the earthquakes and tsunamis the Walpurgis.

[something]

Homura: This timeline, it's perfect. It's like the ultimate happy ending!
Madoka: Look! Episode 11 of our series still hasn't aired yet.
Homura: Darn it! Time for try number 800!
Oh god. That has me imagining an ending where everything goes perfect and right at the very end, out of nowhere, completely unrelated to witches or entropy or QBees... Madoka is hit by a bus. And Homura has to try again. ;_;

[EmperorBrandon]

So yeah, the witch cards finally came out on the website.

Oh nice, I was looking forward to seeing them but didn't think they were going to show up until they were ready to show episode 11.

[angelx03]

Homura: This timeline, it's perfect. It's like the ultimate happy ending!
Madoka: Look! Episode 11 of our series still hasn't aired yet.
Homura: Darn it! Time for try number 800!
Oh god. That has me imagining an ending where everything goes perfect and right at the very end, out of nowhere, completely unrelated to witches or entropy or QBees... Madoka is hit by a bus. And Homura has to try again. ;_;

Kaizo Trap (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/KaizoTrap), anyone?

[EmperorBrandon]

Heh, love the description of Roberta and her minions, and Patricia is/was an iinchou... Quite a few of these have me really curious about what they were like as a "normal" girl and as a magical girl.

[Fencedude]

OST 1 Tracklist (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Soundtrack)

Hope you like gratuitous latin.

[Mafty Allegro]

So yeah, the witch cards finally came out on the website.

And holy crap Kriemhild Gretchen (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Kriemhild_Gretchen)

Ack! So am I supposed to be for her, or against her? :sweat:

What. The. Crap.

Certainly in the vein of the show's messed-up nature. Considering Madoka's benevolent personality, it would only make sense for her to love the world to death…

Oh, and she looks awesome, too. Kinda like her MG form. Perks of being the strongest/main character, I see… ;)


and stirred up a slew of other questions (ex.: Is the gear-bottomed Walpurgisnacht really Witch-Homura?
It cant be because we've already seen Homura fighting it while very much alive. Unless you meant that's one of the questions that is now answered.
I saw someone make the connection elsewhere and thought it was fascinating, though I'm having a hard time trying to make it work. Perhaps if Homura's twisted desire in Witch-form causes her to travel further back in time and become designated as "Walpurgisnacht" somewhere along the line. Though considering the linear manner of the time-travelling (no parallel timelines being created, just a reset), then it would mean that it would most likely be Homura's ultimate fate, a la 12 Monkeys (but much better).

As for the surprising amount Homura-hate
There's Homura hate? Well, not here or the couple other places I go, so I'm glad I avoid any places dumb enough to hate her given how well episode 10 explained her.

I thought it was just a one-site thing, but I saw a similar sentiment at another site, as well, with both containing a sizable amount of people criticizing Homura for being selfish with her wish and actions, as if everything was her fault because of what she's done. Granted, I can see where they are coming from, but as I said earlier, I can't blame her, given the events and circumstances in Ep. 10, and the impact of Madoka on her life. The episode portrayed all those aspects pretty well, IMO.

[regz91]

I thought it was just a one-site thing, but I saw a similar sentiment at another site, as well, with both containing a sizable amount of people criticizing Homura for being selfish with her wish and actions, as if everything was her fault because of what she's done. Granted, I can see where they are coming from, but as I said earlier, I can't blame her, given the events and circumstances in Ep. 10, and the impact of Madoka on her life. The episode portrayed all those aspects pretty well, IMO.

In fairness, Madoka asks very similar questions of Homura in the preview to episode 11, so they're clearly valid concerns that the show intends for the viewer to have. Homura essentially left Sayaka and Kyoko to die, and the show is not going to let her off the hook for this.

[Suwako Moriya]

I thought it was just a one-site thing, but I saw a similar sentiment at another site, as well, with both containing a sizable amount of people criticizing Homura for being selfish with her wish and actions, as if everything was her fault because of what she's done. Granted, I can see where they are coming from, but as I said earlier, I can't blame her, given the events and circumstances in Ep. 10, and the impact of Madoka on her life. The episode portrayed all those aspects pretty well, IMO.

In fairness, Madoka asks very similar questions of Homura in the preview to episode 11, so they're clearly valid concerns that the show intends for the viewer to have. Homura essentially left Sayaka and Kyoko to die, and the show is not going to let her off the hook for this.

Odd, I was under the impression that Madoka's questions were geared towards QB. QB has been watching over them as part of the mission. Likewise, QB's nature and cruelty could cause someone to beg such a question.

Although I guess it could work with Homura. At the very least, her attitude towards others might cause pause and beg the question of whether or not she felt anything. As for the watching over part, that would be another story.

[something]

In fairness, Madoka asks very similar questions of Homura in the preview to episode 11, so they're clearly valid concerns that the show intends for the viewer to have.
Not after episode 10. And like Suwako, I took those questions as aimed at QB. She's asked him similar questions before. If she really is asking Homura, then clearly the audience should understand it in the context that Madoka has far less knowledge of the truth than we as viewers do.

If anyone really was hell-bent on finding a character selfish, a (stupid) argument could be made for Madoka, who set the current Homura up, but that would also be utterly unfair.

[TnAdct1]

I thought it was just a one-site thing, but I saw a similar sentiment at another site, as well, with both containing a sizable amount of people criticizing Homura for being selfish with her wish and actions, as if everything was her fault because of what she's done. Granted, I can see where they are coming from, but as I said earlier, I can't blame her, given the events and circumstances in Ep. 10, and the impact of Madoka on her life. The episode portrayed all those aspects pretty well, IMO.

In fairness, Madoka asks very similar questions of Homura in the preview to episode 11, so they're clearly valid concerns that the show intends for the viewer to have. Homura essentially left Sayaka and Kyoko to die, and the show is not going to let her off the hook for this.
This once again shows why I feel that Homura needs to give up with this timeline and instead start focusing on the next one: while I can understand that she's being cold as a result of the events of the third timeline, that doesn't mean that her current plan to save Madoka is going to work.

I think the best way to compare this situation is with the episode of Welcome to the N.H.K. where Tatsuhiro starts playing eroge games. Basically, what Homura is doing now is similar to what Tatsuhiro did his second go-round of the eroge game: he basically focused on just one girl, and pretty much was a jerk to the others, which resulted in him not getting the ending he desired.

Hence, if Homura is going to achieve her goals and stop the timeloop, she needs to stop being somewhat jerkish and realize that she can't do this with just her and Madoka.

[bear]

This once again shows why I feel that Homura needs to give up with this timeline and instead start focusing on the next one: while I can understand that she's being cold as a result of the events of the third timeline, that doesn't mean that her current plan to save Madoka is going to work.


Which leads to the frustrating thought that Homura will think she finally has a solution to what she needs to do at the end of this timeline and as the new one begins we are left without seeing the actual resolution. Yes, I've gotten that paranoid.

[Isuzu Inugami]

Hence, if Homura is going to achieve her goals and stop the timeloop, she needs to stop being somewhat jerkish and realize that she can't do this with just her and Madoka.

But her previous iterations with everyone haven't worked out either. And I see her as being increasingly desperate, increasingly Madoka-obsessed, and increasingly angry and irrational over her failures. She's turning into a jerk because being nice always fails, and she is too deep into the situation to be able to step back and take a calm and rational look.

[TnAdct1]

Hence, if Homura is going to achieve her goals and stop the timeloop, she needs to stop being somewhat jerkish and realize that she can't do this with just her and Madoka.

But her previous iterations with everyone haven't worked out either. And I see her as being increasingly desperate, increasingly Madoka-obsessed, and increasingly angry and irrational over her failures. She's turning into a jerk because being nice always fails, and she is too deep into the situation to be able to step back and take a calm and rational look.
...and that is where she's failing: rather than doing what you said (as in take a calm and rational look at the situation), she's letting the events of the third timeloop bring out the worst in her.

[Sly05]

...and that is where she's failing: rather than doing what you said (as in take a calm and rational look at the situation), she's letting the events of the third timeloop bring out the worst in her.
Plus she is unable to save Mami and Kyouko as they already contracted with Kyubey before the point where she is able to travel back in time to. She's pretty much limited to trying to stop new contracts from being made as she isn't able to kill Kyubey either.

[something]

http://blog-imgs-17.fc2.com/y/a/r/yaraon/lib356446.jpg

Chart showing the pairings from most to least likely.

I'm not sure why Mami x Sayaka would be on the same level as Madoka x Sayaka but I guess Kyouko x Sayaka is so obvious that anything else is unlikely.

Well, but none more unlikely than Homura x Sayaka. I have to agree with that one being at the bottom. :sd: And I totally put Kyouko x Homura up a little, as I've always liked the idea of the pairing.

But there's no Mami x Charlotte! ;_; Don't leave out the best!

[EmperorBrandon]

And I totally put Kyouko x Homura up a little, as I've always liked the idea of the pairing.

Yeah, Kyouko x Homura being so low seemed a little odd to me.

[Fencedude]

http://blog-imgs-17.fc2.com/y/a/r/yaraon/lib356446.jpg

Chart showing the pairings from most to least likely.



Will be interesting to see what Oriko does for Kyouko/Mami

Kyouko/Sayaka is still the best though.

[Isuzu Inugami]

Hence, if Homura is going to achieve her goals and stop the timeloop, she needs to stop being somewhat jerkish and realize that she can't do this with just her and Madoka.

But her previous iterations with everyone haven't worked out either. And I see her as being increasingly desperate, increasingly Madoka-obsessed, and increasingly angry and irrational over her failures. She's turning into a jerk because being nice always fails, and she is too deep into the situation to be able to step back and take a calm and rational look.
...and that is where she's failing: rather than doing what you said (as in take a calm and rational look at the situation), she's letting the events of the third timeloop bring out the worst in her.

Yeah, but I'm saying she's simply not in any condition to step back and calm down. She keeps a cold exterior, but she's probably barely holding it together as it is.

[Fencedude]

Yeah, but I'm saying she's simply not in any condition to step back and calm down. She keeps a cold exterior, but she's probably barely holding it together as it is.

Yeah, I don't think Homura's capable of thinking rationally at this point.

This will, of course, prove her undoing.

[something]

魔法少女に花束を (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13904609) - Mahou Shoujo ni Hanabata o (Bouquet for a Magical Girl) [Youtube version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRXzIcORS38)]

Song is Daijina Mono wa Mabuta no Ura by Kokia.

Wow... that's pretty gorgeous. And incredibly sad. ;_; Very pretty song too, works perfectly.

Edit: For something completely different... what if QB had gone mahou shoujo scouting at a certain detective academy (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13643385)? Only the first half (to the end of the Mami bit) really needs to be watched. Second half isn't that amusing and contains Milky Holmes spoilers anyway.

[strangefour]

魔法少女に花束を (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13904609) - Mahou Shoujo ni Hanabata o (Bouquet for a Magical Girl) [Youtube version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRXzIcORS38)]

Song is Daijina Mono wa Mabuta no Ura by Kokia.

Wow... that's pretty gorgeous. And incredibly sad. ;_; Very pretty song too, works perfectly.

:cry:

[Ashyukun]

魔法少女に花束を (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13904609) - Mahou Shoujo ni Hanabata o (Bouquet for a Magical Girl) [Youtube version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRXzIcORS38)]

Song is Daijina Mono wa Mabuta no Ura by Kokia.

Wow... that's pretty gorgeous. And incredibly sad. ;_; Very pretty song too, works perfectly.
If I still did convention panels on AMVs, THAT would be my new demonstration for how to use After Effects right. (of course, I'd have to recommend anyone who hadn't seen the show to leave the room first...)

Exceptionally well put together... and as such, quite sad too. Makes me doubly glad I saved the link for this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtSWHQrkta8) last night...

Also, from the 'subtly but solidly wrong (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/881573/akemi_homura-black_hair-blonde_hair-bullet_hole-cr)' category....

[bear]

魔法少女に花束を (http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm13904609) - Mahou Shoujo ni Hanabata o (Bouquet for a Magical Girl) [Youtube version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRXzIcORS38)]

Song is Daijina Mono wa Mabuta no Ura by Kokia.


Having followed the story the video has quite an impact. The music just amplifies the saddness, and the use of Kyubee just rams home the horror underlying the show.

[superdry]

Kind of weird to jump in the middle of discussions near the end of the series, but I just watched everything up to now in one night (maybe it wasn't a good thing to marathon it. Lots of stuff to soak-in). The beginning was okay, but things got a lot more interesting after Mami's death and Sayaka's contract. But...man, is the series screwed-up.



Yeah, but I'm saying she's simply not in any condition to step back and calm down. She keeps a cold exterior, but she's probably barely holding it together as it is.

Yeah, I don't think Homura's capable of thinking rationally at this point.

This will, of course, prove her undoing.

But, her undoing would ultimately lead her back to being stuck in the timeloop? Every time seems like she gets closer and closer to achieving her goal, but never happens. It's most almost like the series can end recursively if there is no way to save Madoka (Homura realizes this and relives the nightmare forever).

Question though...if Homura dies before saving Madoka, her wish would reset the timeline and she starts from square-one, right?

[Ashyukun]

Question though...if Homura dies before saving Madoka, her wish would reset the timeline and she starts from square-one, right?
We don't know... I've been acting on the assumption that if Homura dies/becomes a witch, her looping stops since it's dependent on and only* acts on HER (unlike, say, Sayaka's wish for Kamijou, which presumably was not undone when she became a witch & was defeated- though that happening would have been interesting to see his reaction as he potentially realized just what had happened...). It would be arguable whether it would be better or worse for her if, after dying, she did loop again and have to keep trying...

* Admittedly, it's been hinted at & we've theorized that Homura's wish is also directly affecting Madoka, since she 'dreamed' the end of the last loop, and on several occasions has been about to 'remember' Homura from that past loops...

[Zeether]

It was only a matter of time before someone would do something like this. (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/886777)

[Ashyukun]

It was only a matter of time before someone would do something like this. (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/886777)
If there's a good Homura cosplayer at Otakon this year who's up for a photo shoot, I'm SO taking that picture... :cool:

[TnAdct1]

It was only a matter of time before someone would do something like this. (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/886777)
If there's a good Homura cosplayer at Otakon this year who's up for a photo shoot, I'm SO taking that picture... :cool:
Given how I've already saw some Madoka Magica cosplay at Katsucon, a Homura cosplayer at Otakon is very likely.

[Mafty Allegro]

Don't know if anyone posted this yet, but apparently someone on Nico Nico did their own hand-drawn rendition of the OP--but with 50 shades of wrong. :sdsmiley: [YouTube, but NSFW] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBYbBrnexOQ)

[Shiroi Hane]

That's been posted here twice before I believe.

[Zeether]

It was only a matter of time before someone would do something like this. (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/886777)
If there's a good Homura cosplayer at Otakon this year who's up for a photo shoot, I'm SO taking that picture... :cool:
You need a Delorean with one of the doors open for better effect.

[TnAdct1]

Another Madoka Magica inspired Flash game is out.

This time, the game is a Kyubey simulator, in which you play Kyubey (minus all the things about him that makes you want to hate him) as you turn ordinary girls into puella magi and build up a mass army of mahou shoujos in preparation for Walpurgisnacht.

You can play the game here: http://illucalab.com/incubator/incubatore.html

[Ashyukun]

It was only a matter of time before someone would do something like this. (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/886777)
If there's a good Homura cosplayer at Otakon this year who's up for a photo shoot, I'm SO taking that picture... :cool:
You need a Delorean with one of the doors open for better effect.
Oh, I understand that completely. Which translates to: I need a good Homura cosplayer....

[Evil SDude]

How is this for some very expensive Madoka artwork (http://ekizo.mandarake.co.jp/auc_e/itemInfo.do?itemId=03003038500100001)!:sweat::eek: 99 sheets & opened at only 2,500Y & now up to 315,100Y!!!:sweat:

[Shiroi Hane]

I've paid a fair amount for settei (although a lot of it is probably generational photocopies) but that's insane!

[MitchH]

Another Madoka Magica inspired Flash game is out.

This time, the game is a Kyubey simulator, in which you play Kyubey (minus all the things about him that makes you want to hate him) as you turn ordinary girls into puella magi and build up a mass army of mahou shoujos in preparation for Walpurgisnacht.

You can play the game here: http://illucalab.com/incubator/incubatore.html

That's... alarmingly addictive. And horribly futile, like Missile Command with magical girls.

I bought Blassreiter, cheap, on the strength of everyone talking up the Urobuchi Gen connection w/ Madoka. Watched the first episode this morning before work. Uh... does it get better?

[regz91]

I bought Blassreiter, cheap, on the strength of everyone talking up the Urobuchi Gen connection w/ Madoka. Watched the first episode this morning before work. Uh... does it get better?

It depends what you mean by "better". If you mean, does the show ever deliver on its potential, then certainly the drama becomes more gripping as you get further into the story. The characters become more compelling as you learn more about them. The action definitely ramps up - this show seriously has the most awesome CG fight scenes ever made. The early episodes are very much on the slow burn, laying the groundwork for the future.

If you mean, does the show ever become something radically different from what you just watched, then . . . no, not really. Some people just don't like the kind of show that Blassreiter is, and the show does not really make any effort to accommodate them.

[MitchH]

I bought Blassreiter, cheap, on the strength of everyone talking up the Urobuchi Gen connection w/ Madoka. Watched the first episode this morning before work. Uh... does it get better?

It depends what you mean by "better"{...} The action definitely ramps up - this show seriously has the most awesome CG fight scenes ever made.

So if I found the CG in the first episode painfully cheap and funny-awful in a manner reminiscent of those jokey Taiwanese news-animation youtube videos, I should settle in for another twelve episodes of "ugh"?

[Ashyukun]

So if I found the CG in the first episode painfully cheap and funny-awful in a manner reminiscent of those jokey Taiwanese news-animation youtube videos, I should settle in for another twelve episodes of "ugh"?

This was my primary reason for dropping it (in addition to having to pay for each episode IIRC vs the subscription model CR has now)- the CG just hurt to watch.

And.... for better or worse, it's a 2-cour show, not just 1... :sd:

[Azuku]

I bought Blassreiter, cheap, on the strength of everyone talking up the Urobuchi Gen connection w/ Madoka. Watched the first episode this morning before work. Uh... does it get better?

I've not seen Blassreiter, but I was under the impression that Gen only did work on a few of the episodes. For his best work, I'd say go with Saya no Uta. Which I can readily recommend, though it is R-18 for a reason.

[regz91]

So if I found the CG in the first episode painfully cheap and funny-awful in a manner reminiscent of those jokey Taiwanese news-animation youtube videos, I should settle in for another twelve episodes of "ugh"?

The first episode is mostly those admittedly cheesy-looking XAT motorcycles fighting generic Amalgams, if I remember correctly, with Gerd only playing a quick role at the end. The show pretty quickly transitions to showing off Blassreiters like Gerd, which is a lot more fun to watch. After about a quarter through the series, the XAT motorcycle models pretty much fall by the wayside, as more Blassreiters enter the fray and the humans get their hands on better hardware, and then things get SWEET.

I've not seen Blassreiter, but I was under the impression that Gen only did work on a few of the episodes. For his best work, I'd say go with Saya no Uta. Which I can readily recommend, though it is R-18 for a reason.

Urobuchi wrote only 8 of the 24 episodes. He had intended to write all the episodes, but according to director Ichiro Itano, his first draft for episode 1 was too strongly influenced by his video game background (Itano doesn't go into detail, but presumably Urobuchi's draft was too talky and didn't have a good grasp of the flow of the animated medium). Yasuko Kobayashi was brought on to write the first chunk of episodes and show Urobuchi the ropes. Urobuchi was still story editor, though, and helped shape the entire story alongside Itano. It's true that Blassreiter reflects Itano's sensibilities more than Urobuchi's, but you can still really feel Urobuchi's influence throughout the project, especially in the little details which I think is really his strong point.

For recommendations for Urobuchi's other work, I think it's fine to stick with his animated works - Blassreiter, Requiem for the Phantom, and the upcoming Fate/Zero. They cover a pretty good range of styles. For games, I actually like Kikokugai a great deal more than Saya. Nitroplus is releasing a super-updated version of Kikokugai in May which, I suspect, is being targeted primarily at Madoka fans who just learned about Urobuchi.

[Shiroi Hane]

This was my primary reason for dropping it (in addition to having to pay for each episode IIRC vs the subscription model CR has now)
I watched the first episodes of Blassreiter, Druaga and Strike Witches on BOST. The only series I paid up to watch further was Strike Witches. The others are now available to watch free on Crunchyroll and I still haven't ever watched past the first episode.

[Ashyukun]

I watched the first episodes of Blassreiter, Druaga and Strike Witches on BOST. The only series I paid up to watch further was Strike Witches. The others are now available to watch free on Crunchyroll and I still haven't ever watched past the first episode.
That's exactly what I did, though I've heard plenty good about Druaga but just never bothered going back and watching more of it. Don't for a second regret my decision there, either. :catgirl:

[Ashyukun]

For recommendations for Urobuchi's other work, I think it's fine to stick with his animated works - Blassreiter, Requiem for the Phantom, and the upcoming Fate/Zero. They cover a pretty good range of styles. For games, I actually like Kikokugai a great deal more than Saya. Nitroplus is releasing a super-updated version of Kikokugai in May which, I suspect, is being targeted primarily at Madoka fans who just learned about Urobuchi.
I rather enjoyed what I watched of Requiem for the Phantom... I forget exactly what I ended up dropping it. I think it was for a reason other than actual content, like the official legal files/stream wouldn't play properly on the computer I was using at the time...

[Ashyukun]

Well, THAT certainly didn't take long (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/891283/ahoge-animal_ears-blush-cat_ears-dog_days-dress-gl)....

It also just floors me that the Madoka Magica image-count there is now up to nearly 8,100 entries. I have to wonder whether the artwork count would have exploded nearly as much if the series had run out normally and not been stuck in limbo...

[something]

It also just floors me that the Madoka Magica image-count there is now up to nearly 8,100 entries. I have to wonder whether the artwork count would have exploded nearly as much if the series had run out normally and not been stuck in limbo...
Well, output has probably slowed a little bit in the lull but certainly not as much as it will when the show finally ends.

And regarding its success on danbooru...

186420 touhou
*33716 vocaloid
*15662 suzumiya_haruhi_no_yuuutsu
*14224 mahou_shoujo_lyrical_nanoha
*13491 k-on!
*10526 idolmaster
*10465 final_fantasy
**9008 pokemon
**8827 gundam
**8657 lucky_star
**8367 fate/stay_night
**8106 mahou_shoujo_madoka_magica

Everything above it is part of a large franchise with multiple entries, acting as umbrella tags. Except Lucky Star, which it'll pass before the end. Pretty crazy.

[infjeff]

I've never imported anime before, but I'm really considering buying the Blu-Rays... But I'm a completionist and if I buy a few I'll need them all, which would cost over $500 for all six. That's a crazy amount for 12 episodes that aren't subtitled. The tortured life of a collector. :cry: If only Madoka could be licensed now...

[MelancholicMariya]

I've never imported anime before, but I'm really considering buying the Blu-Rays... But I'm a completionist and if I buy a few I'll need them all, which would cost over $500 for all six. That's a crazy amount for 12 episodes that aren't subtitled. The tortured life of a collector. :cry: If only Madoka could be licensed now...

Well if you think about it like that then yeah it seems like a lot of money (and it is). Though it's only one BD per month and it'll only cost you in total $500 by September. On Amazon it's 5,000 yen which is about $58 which is less than one half cour set from Funimation. So if you're really devoted, you could do it, just treat it like any other release.

[something]

I've never imported anime before, but I'm really considering buying the Blu-Rays... But I'm a completionist and if I buy a few I'll need them all, which would cost over $500 for all six.
Should be a tad under $400 from Amazon Japan actually (that's what it'll be for me, roughly) if the exchange rate doesn't take a dive again, although I suppose that's not too much comfort... I'd wait until Vol. 6 is solicited and then just order them all at once. That way it comes out to about ¥583/disc for S&H, and Amazon will ship them all on street date or before even without you paying for partial shipments.

Kore wa Zombie desu ka?, on the other hand is going to cost about $500. Damn awful MSRPs...


Anyway, HEY GUYS, remember when the Madoka Magica anime used to air? Man, those were the days, weren't they? Ugh. What the hell would Shaft have done if they didn't have natural disasters to blame their incompetence on? And no, the tsunami does not explain why this show is off the air 2-4+ weeks longer than everything else...

[EmperorBrandon]

Anyway, HEY GUYS, remember when the Madoka Magica anime used to air? Man, those were the days, weren't they? Ugh. What the hell would Shaft have done if they didn't have natural disasters to blame their incompetence on? And no, the tsunami does not explain why this show is off the air 2-4+ weeks longer than everything else...

Don't they still have rolling blackouts and the like to deal with? Just because others may be going ahead doesn't mean they haven't had problems and maybe having to deal with some quality loss. I think I'm OK with waiting for right now.. I think if they still don't have the episodes ready to air by the end of April, then it will start to get frustrating, though.

[Fencedude]

Anyway, HEY GUYS, remember when the Madoka Magica anime used to air? Man, those were the days, weren't they? Ugh. What the hell would Shaft have done if they didn't have natural disasters to blame their incompetence on? And no, the tsunami does not explain why this show is off the air 2-4+ weeks longer than everything else...

The going theory right now is that MBS, who has the first broadcast rights, are the ones dragging their feet.

Though its re-airing on ATX right now, so...at worst we'll see the final episodes...in June. orz.

I do think they'll get them out before then though.

[something]

Don't they still have rolling blackouts and the like to deal with? Just because others may be going ahead doesn't mean they haven't had problems and maybe having to deal with some quality loss.
Shaft doesn't exist in some unique universe where they and they alone are facing far harsher conditions than every other studio in the country, though. I'd love to believe the extra stalling they're doing beyond the 1-3 weeks most everyone else took will result in drastically better episodes, but then it's not like the ages they delayed Bake made that show's ending any better (last few eps were, if anything, the weakest of the series).

[EmperorBrandon]

but then it's not like the ages they delayed Bake made that show's ending any better (last few eps were, if anything, the weakest of the series).

Well, no, not expecting to magically be better because we're waiting on them. If anything I'm not too hyped, actually. It's going to difficult to top episode 10 in my mind.

[infjeff]

I've never imported anime before, but I'm really considering buying the Blu-Rays... But I'm a completionist and if I buy a few I'll need them all, which would cost over $500 for all six.
Should be a tad under $400 from Amazon Japan actually (that's what it'll be for me, roughly) if the exchange rate doesn't take a dive again, although I suppose that's not too much comfort... I'd wait until Vol. 6 is solicited and then just order them all at once. That way it comes out to about ¥583/disc for S&H, and Amazon will ship them all on street date or before even without you paying for partial shipments.



Thanks for the tip, I was looking on cdjapan, I didn't realize they were cheaper on Amazon.co.jp, I've never bought from there before. I've got them all in my shopping cart, but I'm going to think about it for a little while longer.

[something]

Thanks for the tip, I was looking on cdjapan, I didn't realize they were cheaper on Amazon.co.jp, I've never bought from there before. I've got them all in my shopping cart, but I'm going to think about it for a little while longer.
I really quite like CDJapan as a retailer and would like to shop there more, but they just can't beat the discounts Amazon does (or the crazy fast shipping and essentially free partials).

Unless you plan on importing more shows later on, definitely wait for the final volume of Madoka to be solicited before buying. If you have to buy it by itself (you can't combine it with this order after you place it) S&H will be ¥2000 for just that disc, since there's a ¥1700 per order flat fee besides the ¥300/item charge. Buying in bulk is the way to go.

[Ashyukun]

but then it's not like the ages they delayed Bake made that show's ending any better (last few eps were, if anything, the weakest of the series).

Well, no, not expecting to magically be better because we're waiting on them. If anything I'm not too hyped, actually. It's going to difficult to top episode 10 in my mind.
Well, I'm not expecting it to be exponentially better- but I do look at it as that it should be solidly better than it would have been had they been under their original schedule constraints. I'd imagine we'll get in broadcast what we would have had to wait for the disc release to see...

[something]

Well, I'm not expecting it to be exponentially better- but I do look at it as that it should be solidly better than it would have been had they been under their original schedule constraints. I'd imagine we'll get in broadcast what we would have had to wait for the disc release to see...
At the very least there will be absolutely no excuse for any of the character model disasters that happened in some of the early episodes...

[something]

http://twitter.com/#!/Butch_Gen/status/56839239521931266

Well, Gen says something is gonna happen in 12 hours. That was 4 hours ago, so make it 8. It better be a Madoka resumption announcement...

[infjeff]

http://twitter.com/#!/Butch_Gen/status/56839239521931266

Well, Gen says something is gonna happen in 12 hours. That was 4 hours ago, so make it 8. It better be a Madoka resumption announcement...
:eek:
Woah!!!! Excited!!! Hopefully something to look forward to in the morning!

[Sly05]

Well, Gen says something is gonna happen in 12 hours. That was 4 hours ago, so make it 8. It better be a Madoka resumption announcement...
God I hope so. I also really hope we don't have to wait as long as we did for Bakemonogatari to see the conclusion. Long gaps between what will be pivotal episodes would really kill the build up.

[MelancholicMariya]

http://twitter.com/#!/Butch_Gen/status/56839239521931266

Well, Gen says something is gonna happen in 12 hours. That was 4 hours ago, so make it 8. It better be a Madoka resumption announcement...

I saw this before but google translates flawless magic made me just assume he was tweeting about something random again.

Either way I'm rather excited now.

Also, thanks to his profile icon I just picture that as him now. That created Madoka Magica.

[something]

I saw this before but google translates flawless magic made me just assume he was tweeting about something random again.
It could just as easily be about a visual novel, or some other anime project, or his next scheduled colonoscopy... but one would hope he has the good sense to know what everybody in the entire universe is going to read into his comment, and wouldn't say something that would create false hopes.

[mellowrg2]

I saw this before but google translates flawless magic made me just assume he was tweeting about something random again.
It could just as easily be about a visual novel, or some other anime project, or his next scheduled colonoscopy... but one would hope he has the good sense to know what everybody in the entire universe is going to read into his comment, and wouldn't say something that would create false hopes.

Gen Urobuchi wouldn't troll us like this, would he?

....................

I.. I'm not sure...

[Suwako Moriya]

Anyway, HEY GUYS, remember when the Madoka Magica anime used to air?

*Sometime in the far future*

Old Man: It's been 100 years since episode 10 of Madoka Magica aired and episode 11 has not come yet. However some people have faith that it will.

Child: Grandpa, I'm too old to believe in your fairy tales. Such a series never existed.

[EmperorBrandon]

http://twitter.com/#!/Butch_Gen/status/56839239521931266

Well, Gen says something is gonna happen in 12 hours. That was 4 hours ago, so make it 8. It better be a Madoka resumption announcement...

Well, I guess it was Madoka Magica-related. Just checked the official site (http://www.madoka-magica.com/), and it seems like there are air dates now: 11 and 12 will come on April 21.

[infjeff]

OH MY GOD!!! SO MUCH WIN!!!

Seriously though, I am freaking out for this, thank you SHAFT for the best show ever. :bowsmiley:

[MelancholicMariya]

http://twitter.com/#!/Butch_Gen/status/56839239521931266

Well, Gen says something is gonna happen in 12 hours. That was 4 hours ago, so make it 8. It better be a Madoka resumption announcement...

Well, I guess it was Madoka Magica-related. Just checked the official site (http://www.madoka-magica.com/), and it seems like there are air dates now: 11 and 12 will come on April 21.

Back to back Madoka Magica. The world cannot handle two episodes at once!

[Suwako Moriya]

http://twitter.com/#!/Butch_Gen/status/56839239521931266

Well, Gen says something is gonna happen in 12 hours. That was 4 hours ago, so make it 8. It better be a Madoka resumption announcement...

Well, I guess it was Madoka Magica-related. Just checked the official site (http://www.madoka-magica.com/), and it seems like there are air dates now: 11 and 12 will come on April 21.

Back to back Madoka Magica. The world cannot handle two episodes at once!

Sometimes the world must be willing to take a risk for the greater good. Besides we'll just load an earlier save to fix the problem. In any case, here's hoping the date sticks.

[Ashyukun]

Back to back Madoka Magica. The world cannot handle two episodes at once!
Yay, we have dates for it!

DOH! It's the Friday of Anime Boston, which means I'll likely have to wait until I get back the following Monday to see it (and if I do get to see it earlier, it'll likely be on my iPad- unless I pull some tricks and can watch it on the big screens in my room :devil: ).

[Vegard Aune]

I've never imported anime before, but I'm really considering buying the Blu-Rays... But I'm a completionist and if I buy a few I'll need them all, which would cost over $500 for all six. That's a crazy amount for 12 episodes that aren't subtitled. The tortured life of a collector. :cry: If only Madoka could be licensed now...
I know what you mean. Of course, to me the problem isn't so much that I've never imported anything, nor that it doesn't have subs... It's that I already am importing KamiNomi, and as a 19-year-old highschool student without a job, I can't possibly afford a second series on top of that... And while Madoka is the better series by far, it is also the better selling one, whereas it almost seems like my imports of KamiNomi makes up a significant percentage of that show's total income. (<-Slight exaggeration.)

Of course, this wouldn't be anywhere near as bad were it not for the fact that it seems the soundtrack for the show is only available via the BluRays... Curse you Japan and your overly effective marketing-strategies!!!

[something]

Well, I guess it was Madoka Magica-related. Just checked the official site (http://www.madoka-magica.com/), and it seems like there are air dates now: 11 and 12 will come on April 21.
So much for "by mid April" but at least we have a date. Getting both out at once makes it a bit better too.

Man that's so far away... but, frickin finally.

Edit: Haha, after Urobuchi's Twitter message, the 2ch thread got gradually more crazy:

第898話 6時間59分6秒 ←Urobuchi Twitter
第899話 2時間48分2秒
第900話 20分57秒
第901話 2時間4分47秒
第902話 2時間54分22秒
第903話 1時間48分9秒
第904話 23分17秒
第905話 5分38秒　←19:00
第906話 6分17秒
第907話 7分6秒
第908話 7分2秒
第909話 8分9秒
第910話 9分3秒
第911話 11分17秒
第912話 16分53秒

So at one point it went through 1000 posts in five and a half minutes...

[infjeff]

I've never imported anime before, but I'm really considering buying the Blu-Rays... But I'm a completionist and if I buy a few I'll need them all, which would cost over $500 for all six. That's a crazy amount for 12 episodes that aren't subtitled. The tortured life of a collector. :cry: If only Madoka could be licensed now...
I know what you mean. Of course, to me the problem isn't so much that I've never imported anything, nor that it doesn't have subs... It's that I already am importing KamiNomi, and as a 19-year-old highschool student without a job, I can't possibly afford a second series on top of that... And while Madoka is the better series by far, it is also the better selling one, whereas it almost seems like my imports of KamiNomi makes up a significant percentage of that show's total income. (<-Slight exaggeration.)

Of course, this wouldn't be anywhere near as bad were it not for the fact that it seems the soundtrack for the show is only available via the BluRays... Curse you Japan and your overly effective marketing-strategies!!!
Yeah, the soundtrack thing is definately a big draw. With an OST this magnificent it wouldn't feel right just getting them from rips online. I'd much rather have the disk. Which is somewhat contradictory, since after I get the music off the CD myself, I would put it back in the case and never touch it again for the rest of my life.

But I would own it. :sweat:

[Buckeye]

Back to back Madoka Magica. The world cannot handle two episodes at once!
Yay, we have dates for it!

DOH! It's the Friday of Anime Boston, which means I'll likely have to wait until I get back the following Monday to see it (and if I do get to see it earlier, it'll likely be on my iPad- unless I pull some tricks and can watch it on the big screens in my room :devil: ).

So we finally have a date. Too bad that I will be in St. Louis during that time and will not have a chance to finish it until I get back after that weekend.

[ShadowAlex22]

At long last! I'm so happy to hear this series is back. I only wish the OSTs would come out faster.

[MelancholicMariya]

At long last! I'm so happy to hear this series is back. I only wish the OSTs would come out faster.

You probably already know but the OST's will be coming with the DVD/BD limited editions. OST 1 comes with Vol. 2.

[Fencedude]

In the ~week to go until the last two episodes, I'm going to rewatch the entire series thus far. It'll be a bit faster than an episode a day, since there's just over 8 and a half days to go before the airing.

These will involve COMPLETE SPOILERS THROUGH EPISODE 10, so be warned! Do make sure you keep track of the subject lines when you respond to these posts!

So, without further ado!

Episode 1

- Black upside down triangle, with Kriemhild Gretchen's Sigil
- Walpurgisnacht's Witch Space perhaps?
- Hospital, giant tree, Walpurgisnacht floating in a darkened sky, upside down
- Homura, using her abilities to dodge flying buildings, but on signs of other weapons
- She sees Madoka standing next to Kyuubei, and screams silently
- "If you give up, it will be the end of everything. But you have the capacity to change fate."
- Its hard to tell, but it looks like Walpurgisnacht is damaged now. Maybe Homura did something?
- Opening. The lyrics hit hard now.
- I just noticed how much the tomato plants in Madoka's yard resemble how they were grown in Hoshimittsu
- Hitomi gets lots of love letters
- Madoka's secret admirers...turns out she actually has one...
- In light of later revelations from Hitomi, her comments about "if only it were that easy" makes far more sense.
- Kazuko's love issues seem to have gone nowhere.
- Akemi Homura arrives...Madoka remembers her from her "dream"
- She looks directly at Madoka
- Homura of course knows Madoka's the health rep, and this is all a ruse anyway.
- Madoka's very confused, of course. Homura's not really trying to keep up a pretense here...
- "Akemi-san" A look of intense pain on Homura's face...
- "Homura-chan" "Unique name"...more painful expressions
- Does Madoka value her current life?
- She must never think of trying to become somone else...she needs to just stay Kaname Madoka...
- Wonder how much Homura's cheating in PE.
- She gives Madoka a look...its scary...
- Kyuubee watching from behind a plant...
- Sayaka is not impressed with Homura...
- "Part of her karma from her last life." "Friends meeting again after traveling through space and time" You can just feel the arrows stabbing into Homura...
- Kyuubey, running through an access hallway...
- Bolts of magic shoot past him...Homura is chasing...
- Madoka hears Kyuubey's call for help...
- Kyuubey falls out of the ceiling...and then Homura appears...
- Homura's expression is cold as ice...
- Sayaka drives her off with the fire extinguisher...and the witch space appears...
- Sayaka and Madoka are trapped in the Witch Space...and Anthony's surround them...
- Runes
- And then Mami appears...
- Magica Girl Mami, Sanjou!
- The Witch Space vanishes, but Homura appears, Mami tells her to go hunt down the witch if she wants.
- Mami's attitude is actually very confrontational here. She's being very polite, but essentially telling Homura to fuck off.
- Just for a moment, as she turns away, there is an expression of intense pain on Homura's face.
- How did Kyuubey know Sayaka's name anyway?

So yeah, coming back after episode 10, lots of things make much, much more sense this time around. Its also crushing to watch Madoka and Sayaka save Kyuubey, when its

the absolute last thing they should do.

Homura's communication skill still suck though.

[Fencedude]

Episode 2

- Tomoe Mami, a Magical Girl contracted to Kyuubey
- Right after that, there is the same transition used in episode 1 to go from the Prologue to Madoka waking up. Thats interesting
- No Madoka, that wasn't a dream
- Damn Kyuubey in that tub. I want to drown him.
- Mami's empty room...
- Nice how Kyuubey doesn't mention anything missing from Mami's description of the Soul Gem
- Get rid of those damn board members!
- Witches are born from negative desires. Magical Girls spread hope, Witches spread despair...but what if hope becomes despair?
- Hitomi can tell that Madoka and Sayaka are communicating on a different level!
- Hitomi's expression as she sits behind Sayaka is very amusing
- What must Homura think, walking in and seeing Kyuubey with Madoka?
- Of course, neither Mami nor Kyuubey know wwho Homura is...but Kyuubey knows she wants to stop the creation of Magical Girls
- Mami gets a little...her expression when the "competition" aspect comes up...perhaps we'll learn about this in Oriko?
- This is just incredibly depressing to listen to. Knowing that Homura is right, its almost physically painful.
- Sayaka's putting a remarkable amount of thought into the idea of a wish...most girls answer quickly (is that because you usually ask when they have no choice?)
- Homura arrives
- She basically ignores Sayaka. Madoka asks what Homura's wish was...and Homura gives her a look...
- Oh Hitomi, you know you want them together so you can have Kyousuke
- Sayaka Bat!
- Madoka can't get Homura out of her head
- Faust
- More Faust
- A focus on Mami's Soul Gem hairpin
- Homura is following them...
- Gertrud
- Tiro Finale!
- And a spot of tea.
- The Grief Seed
- The Grief Seed absorbs corruption from the Soul Gem
- Homura doesn't want the Grief Seed
- Homura is very hostile to Mami, but of course the feeling is mutual.

Lots more painful scenes with Homura. Its incredibly hard to watch this and not want her to run over and just shake Madoka, telling her to just please understand. ;_;

[Fencedude]

Episode 3

- Kyousuke appears for the first time
- This hospital room is still ridiculous
- Mami taking out a familiar
- Mami believes in taking out familiars, to prevent them from becoming witches
- Madoka, you shouldn't ask people about their wishes...
- Kyuubey didn't give Mami much of a choice.
- And Sayaka asks about using her wihse for someone else...
- (side note, Kyuubey has been very MEGUCA in these scenes.)
- Mami does not approve of the idea
- And the central conflict of Sayaka's character arc is established
- I wonder who set those "rules" for Kyuubey
- Madoka would become an incredibly powerful Magical Girl
- Ponytail Madoka!
- life advice from Madoka's dad...
- Posibly the first hint at Homura's ability, whe she appears behind Mami
- Of course, Homura was once a "civilian" being put in danger by Mami, and by Madoka
- Mami is very suspicious here, but its a red herring
- Homura's specific focus on Madoka is made clear, but she won't tell Mami why
- Mami's mention of bullying gets a reaction out of Homura
- Homu hair flip!
- Mami basically tells Homura that if they meet again, she'll settle it with violence
- As Mami walks away, pain washes over Homura's face
- Outside the hospital, a Grief Seed. Meaningful cut to Kyuubey
- It was really dumb of them not to get Mami's number
- Surprisingly, Kyuubey doesn't suggest that one or both contract right now
- The Barrier forms
- CAUTION
- Kyuubey casually mentions contracting...
- Mami and Madoka enter
- And Homura is following. She wants Mami and Madoka to leave
- Oooh...right before Mami binds Homura, she imitates Homura's hair flip.
- Homura tries to tell Mami not to fight the witch...
- Madoka's never been good at anything, or had any special skills...
- Madoka's wish is to be a Magical Girl with Mami...
- Mami is always alone, being a Magical Girl is not good. But Mami isn't alone anymore...
- A wish for cake!
- The Grief Seed hatches...
- "I'm not afraid of anything anymore"
- Charlotte
- BUt....
- Mogu Mogu
- Kyuubey tells them to contract, quickly
- But Homura arrives
- And Charlotte explodes
- This is the fate of a Magical Girl
- Magia

...after so many Mami/Charlotte images, seeing this happen again is...weird. Its like this isn't really how it happened for me now. Just so strange to think about.

Homura knew that Charlotte was stronger than Mami thoguht, but she was still surprised when Mami died. I really wish we could have seen a fight against Charlotte in episode 10.

[Fencedude]

Episode 4

- Sayaka visits Kyousuke again, he's doing physical therapy
- Exposition dump by some nurses who never even appear on screen
- "If I used my wish to heal him, what would Kyousuke think?" And there it is. Sayaka's fatal, unavoidable mistake.
- Past tense narration from Sayaka. Just when does the narration take place?
- Madoka has breakfast. Her eyes are vacant, she just stairs at her eggs...the yellow, sunny side up eggs...
- And she starts to cry, and she can't even begin to explain why. What should we tell them?
- Sayaka and Madoka are dealing with this in different ways...
- Homura turns just barely, just enough to peek at Madoka behind her...how many times has she seen Mami die now? 3? 4? Does it still hurt? Or has her heart hardened towards everyone but Madoka?
- Madoka and Sayaka sit on the roof, trying to process how their lives changed, how everything is different, even though no one else changed.
- Do they still want to be Magical Girls? Of course they don't. How could they?
- Its selfish, but knowing what she knows now, Madoka can't do it. She can barely even breathe, just thinking of Mami's death.
- Kyuubey just watches
- A new Magical Girl will come to the city, to claim Mami's territory
- They are just after Grief Seeds...
- But only another Magical Girl can criticize them for that
- Kyuubey won't pressure them, he'll leave now, and look for someone who needs his contract.
- Mami's apartment. Empty in truth now.
- Outside the apartment, Homura. Did she come for Madoka? Come to remember a friend she's lost once again, who died never knowing the truth?
- No one can criticize Madoka's choices. Homura would not stand for it.
- She says that nothing could have changed Mami's fate. But Madoka changed hers. Homura was able to save one person (don't count your chickens Homura...)
- Homura feels like a veteran, but different from Mami. She's seen more die than she wants to count
- No one will notice Mami's disapperance, no one will mourne her. No one but Madoka and Sayaka. And Homura.
- The contract is for no one but yourself, you keep fighting solely for your wish. Even if no one knows, no one remembers...oh Homura. Oh...just...Homura ;_;
- Madoka will remember, she won't forget Mami. And she won't forget Homura either. Homura's hand clenches, slgihtly
- Kindness can bring forth an even greater sadness. And no one knows that better than you, Homura.
- Madoka has no way to respond to that
- Sayaka sits with Kyousuke. He's being distant...
- And Kyousuke snaps.
- Miracles and Magic do exist
- Outside the window...Kyuubey
- Madoka is still wandering in a daze, thinking about Homura...and sees Hitomi
- She has a witch's kiss
- She's going somewhere much better than here...
- Madoka, why didn't you get Homura's cell number?
- More people with Witch's Kisses
- They are all suicidal, though Hitomi is surprisingly upbeat about it all
- One of the victims looks like Ooya-san from Hidamari.
- Experimenting with household chemicals is bad!
- Hitomi tries to stop Madoka
- Really wonder why Hitomi acts so different from the others
- Their living bodies are holding them back, that could be interpreted other ways, in the context of this show
- Madoka grabs the bucket, and runs to the window
- If you watch closely, the window starts to crack well before Madoka throws the bucket into it.
- She gets backed into the storage closet, but the witch is waiting for her
- And thats just disturbing
- h.n. elly
- Scenes of Mami play before her, including her final moments
- Is this punishment?
- Stretched out...but then...someone arrives, in a streak of blue light
- Sayaka
- Homura watches
- Sayaka had a change of heart...
- Homura is not happy. Very, very not happy
- Is it because she knows what inevitably happens when Sayaka contracts?
- And Kyousuke's hand...it works now
- A girl eats, sitting attop a transmission tower
- She knows Mami. Refers to her explicitly, by given name, with no honorific. What will we learn about Mami and Kyouko in Magical Girl Oriko Magica?
- Kyouko is not happy that there is a new magical girl in Mitakihara already
- All she has to do is beat the crap out of her!
- Magia

Damn, just...damn. This was always a really powerful episode, but looking at it from Homura's perspective, her conversation with Madoka is just fascinating. She'd almost achieved her goal, Madoka had decided not to contract, and so had Sayaka, who's demonstrated herself to be very unstable. And whats more, Kyouko's coming to Mitakihara, giving her the stable ally she needs to defeat Walpurgisnacht. But then Sayaka goes and screws it up by contracting. Putting them on the inevitable path to Oktavia von Sekendorf. But Homura may still think the situation is salvagable...

But oh god she should have told Madoka the truth right then. She had no better opportunity. And she doesn't know that Madoka does remember. That she remembers Homura's last fight with Walpurgisnacht.

[TnAdct1]

Damn, just...damn. This was always a really powerful episode, but looking at it from Homura's perspective, her conversation with Madoka is just fascinating. She'd almost achieved her goal, Madoka had decided not to contract, and so had Sayaka, who's demonstrated herself to be very unstable. And whats more, Kyouko's coming to Mitakihara, giving her the stable ally she needs to defeat Walpurgisnacht. But then Sayaka goes and screws it up by contracting. Putting them on the inevitable path to Oktavia von Sekendorf. But Homura may still think the situation is salvagable...

But oh god she should have told Madoka the truth right then. She had no better opportunity. And she doesn't know that Madoka does remember. That she remembers Homura's last fight with Walpurgisnacht. Maybe if she was more friendly with Madoka and Sayaka (i.e. her meganekko self, not her "post-third timeloop" self) beforehand, most of this mess could have been prevented (especially once she told Madoka and Sayaka the truth about Kyubey's plans).

[Fencedude]

Maybe if she was more friendly with Madoka and Sayaka (i.e. her meganekko self, not her "post-third timeloop" self) beforehand, most of this mess could have been prevented (especially once she told Madoka and Sayaka the truth about Kyubey's plans).

To be fair, she tried that. It didn't end well.

Also Sayaka just seems to not like Homura at all, in any timeline.

[Ashyukun]

Also Sayaka just seems to not like Homura at all, in any timeline.

I think she realizes that Homura wants to hone in on her near-monopoly of Madoka. :catgirl:

[Fencedude]

Episode 5

- Sayaka and Kyuubey on the roof of the hospita...ominous shadows
- And there it is...her soul being removed from her body.
- This really was just as bad as it looked
- Hitomi's unusually tired
- Yeah, collective hallucination. Sure
- Homura sitting on her desk. Watching. (you know, those desks don't look that sturdy...)
- The ring, and the mark on Sayaka's fingernail
- Sayaka's glad she was able to save Madoka and Hitomi
- Her regret is that she didn't become a Magical Girl sooner
- Sayaka visits Kyousuke
- Of course he has no idea what she did...
- Up to the roof...
- His Violin.
- This is really quite ominous, for what should be a happy event...
- "There's no way I regret anything. I'm the happiest I could possibly be right now"
- Kyouko, watching from a distance. And eating, of course
- Kyuubey doesn't try too hard to disuade Kyouko
- And of course, he doesn't know anything about Homura, she's an irregularity, an anomaly
- Madoka meets with Homura
- She wants to talk about Sayaka. Homura twitches, almost imperceptably.
- Madoka describes Sayaka's flaws, and her strengths...and Homura says they are fatal for a magical girl. Of course, you know all this about Sayaka already, don't you Homura?
- Kindness leads to weakness
- Recklessness to Inattention
- A shot of Homura's ring, and her nail mark...
- And no reward for dedication at all
- All things that Homura knows very well, having seen them lead to the deaths of her friends, many times.
- Are you really that cold, Homura?
- Madoka gets mad...for a moment
- Can Homura be friends with Sayaka, and not fight, like with Mami?
- Homura almost drinks from her coffee, almost
- A brief shot of Homura turning, where is that from?
- And Homura won't do it. She wants Madoka to give up on Sayaka
- Tears fall from Madoka
- Homura should have payed more attention to Sayaka, and not focused only on Madoka. But its too late to change what has happened...
- So you can't wish someone back from the dead?
- She's become a Magical Girl, and has no hope of salvation anymore...
- So has Homura given up? On herself, and all the others?
- Yes, she has. She will fight, no matter the sins she must commit.
- Kyuubey is with Sayaka now, not Madoka.
- Madoka waits for Sayaka, and they head out to hunt witches...
- If Madoka is there, Sayaka will be more careuful...
- And Kyuubey applies some subtle pressure on Madoka...
- They get a reaction in an alley, and enter the barrier of a familiar
- UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS!
- But something knocks Sayaka's swords away. and the familiar escapes
- Its Kyouko, of course
- She tells them not to hunt familiars
- Taiyaki!
- Just wait till it kills some people and becomes a witch
- The circle of life, according to Sakura Kyouko
- She backs Sayaka off, and errects a barrier, to keep Madoka from interfereing? Or to protect her?
- And Kyouko cuts right to the core of Sayaka, and Sayaka attacks
- Kyouko asks her to stop, but she won't.
- Kyouko knocks Sayaka back, but Sayaka gets right back up.
- Sayaka has a special ability to heal faster than normal
- Kyouko has Sayaka on the defensive
- They fight some more, and Kyouko has Sayaka at her mercy but...
- Kyuubey can't do anything, but if Madoka...
- Will Madoka form a contract?
- Of course not, Homura arrives and Time Haxes Sayaka out of the way of Kyouko's finishing blow
- Homu Homu Flip!
- Magia

Very much a transitional episode, starting up the Sayaka/Kyouko arc. Its amazing to think where we'll be just a bare four episodes after the end of this one. Truly amazing. Anyway, a few notes about Kyouko. She didn't set up that barrier to keep Sayaka from escaping, since the other end, where Homura arrived from, was unblocked. The only reason would be to keep Madoka away, though why should she be concerned about Madoka?

Kyouko initiated the confrontation, but Sayaka did the first real attack. In fact Kyouko was surprisingly subtle early on, she quickly lowered her weapon after she'd gotten Sayaka's attention, and it wasn't until Sayaka attacked her that she became violent. Of course it all rapidly escalated out of control after that.

And that bastard Kyuubey tried to use it to get Madoka to contract.

[Fencedude]

Whoops, falling a bit behind on this.

Episode 6

- Homura Time-stopped Sayaka out of the way
- Homu Homu Flip!
- And now she trolls Kyouko using the time stop...and knocks out Sayaka
- Homura knows Kyouko's name, of course
- Stareoff
- Homura's definitely getting fed up with Madoka...but why did she really save Sayaka?
- Kyuubey has suspicions about Homura?
- h.n. elly's Grief Seed?
- ARGH HE ATE THE GRIEF SEED THROUGH HIS BACK
- And Kyuubey puts a in comment about Madoka to Sayaka...
- Dog Drug Reinforcement!
- Kyouko is fit to be a Magical Girl
- Homura will take care of Sayaka?
- Shaft Head Tilt!
- Walpurgisnacht will arrive in two weeks
- Homu Homu Flip!
- After Walpurgisnacht, Homura will leave...
- Pocky to seal the deal
- Madoka wants Sayaka to talk things over with Kyouko. Sayaka isn't interested.
- They were seriously trying to kill each other...
- "That girl isn't a witch, she's a Magical Girl"...oh Madoka...
- Sayaka doesn't know that Mami had restrained Homura...
- Sayaka isn't just fighting against witches, but to protect others...and will fight anyone for that, even other Magical girls
- Madoka has some seriously creepy stuffed animals
- Its surprising Madoka's able to sleep at all, considering what she's been through
- She talks to her mom, trying to get some advice...
- Sometimes you have to do something wrong, in order to balance things out
- Sayaka goes to visit Kyousuke...but he's been discharged
- Outside Kyousuke's house...Sayaka can't make herself ring the bell
- Kyouko's been following her
- She thinks Sayaka's wish was stupid
- Kyouko provides an...alternate way of getting Kyousuke's affections
- A challenge is offered
- Kyuubey comes to get Madoka
- Madoka gets there before Sayaka transforms
- And more Time Stop trolling from Homura
- Homura says she'll fight Sayaka
- Madoka grabs Sayaka's Soul Gem and tosses it off the overpass
- Homura gasps, and we get a clear view of her vanishing for the first time
- Sayaka suddenly collapses
- She's dead, according to Kyouko
- Homura chases the Soul Gem
- And of course, Kyuubey finally fesses up as to whats going on
- The Soul Gem is, in fact, their soul, their bodies are just shells now.
- Homura gets Sayaka's Soul Gem back
- Kyouko is exceptionally not happy with Kyuubey
- Homura returns the Soul Gem
- Homu Homu Flip!
- Sayaka wakes up...
- Magia

The fundamental untrustworthiness of Kyuubey finally becomes apparent to them all. Madoka, Kyouko and Sayaka learn one of the truths of being a Magical Girl, and its by far the least horrifying.

Kyouko stalked Sayaka all day, why? Why would she do this? Does she have an answer to this? Homura professes to not care about anyone but Madoka, but has gone out of her way to save Sayaka at least twice, even though she probably knows that Sayaka dying now would save everyone a lot of grief.

Madoka gets some advice from her mother, its not the advice you would expect, but its good advice. Her execution left something to be desired, but it did result in Kyuubey's true colors coming to the surface.

[Fencedude]

Side note, just ran across this: Homu Homu no Naku Koro ni (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxFrqY9dAXE)

Spoilers, obviously.

[Fencedude]

Episode 7

- Sayaka is not happy
- He didn't lie, he just omitted information!
- Mami never found out...
- And now Kyuubey uses Sayaka's soul gem to make his point. Bastard
- The Soul Gem limits the amount of pain the Magical Girl feels
- Its possible to cut off all pain, but it reduces reaction time...
- Its all in exchange for the wish...
- Sayaka's desk is empty
- She's at home, huddled in her bed, clutching her soul gem
- Homura knew, of course. She didn't tell them, because no one has ever believed her
- Miracles should cost far more than a life, which is what Kyuubey sells them for
- "Give up on Miki Sayaka", a line that may as well be "Give up on Akemi Homura". Homura has nothing to live for but Madoka's survival...
- Without Sayaka, Madoka and Hitomi would be dead now
- Why is Homura so cold? Is it because she's no longer human? Or is that just the excuse she gives herself?
- Sayaka no longer sees herself as human either...
- Bonkura!
- Kyouko is outside Sayaka's house, eating an apple
- Kyouko's decided to just deal with it
- If you just live for yourself, you won't regret anything...
- A deserted church...
- Kyouko tosses an apple to Sayaka, who throws it away...
- Don't waste food
- Kyouko realizes what she was doing, and picks the apple back up
- Kyouko's story.
- Her wish was for people to listen to her father's preaching...
- Her father called her a witch...
- Kyouko will never use magic for others again, only for herself.
- The Law of the Conservation of Despair
- Just what is Kyouko trying to tell Sayaka?
- If she lives only for herself, why tell Sayaka her story?
- Sayaka doesn't regret her wish, or feel she's paid too much...
- How did Kyouko get the apples? Where did the money for them come from?
- Kyouko doesn't have an answer for that...
- If Kyouko doesn't like Sayaka's answer, she can try to kill her again
- Sayaka returns to school the next day...
- She sees Kyousuke has also returned
- Sayaka won't talk to him...
- Hitomi wants to talk to Sayaka...its about Kyousuke
- She's going to confess to him in 24 hours, and is letting Sayaka know, because she's her friend.
- Sayaka needs to choose a course of action she won't regret
- Madoka waits for Sayaka once again
- Sayaka doesn't think she's worth Madoka's kindness, for an instant, she wondered what would have happened if she hadn't saved Hitomi
- Sayaka cries in Madoka's arms
- Kyouko watches as Sayaka fights in a barrier. Homura arrives as well
- Elsa Maria
- Sayaka fights Elsa Maria, in a world of light and shadow
- Kyouko arrives and saves Sayaka
- "If you want, you really don't have to feel pain anymore"
- Magia

We see another side of Kyouko here. Despite everything she says, all her protests, she doesn't only care about herself. She wants Sayaka to find some way to live, to accept what they are now. Sayaka of course doesn't listen. Kyouko's philosophy is the antithesis of what she believes in, but Kyouko's method is hte only way for a Magical Girl to survive, in more ways than either of them realizes.

Hitomi throws down the gauntlet, and it may have been the last straw for Sayaka. For just a moment, she wished she hadn't saved Hitomi, and that moment destroyed her faith in herself. She no longer feels she has anything to live for, and locked away all her pain.

[Fencedude]

Episode 8

- The Witch Space crumbles as Elsa Maria falls to Sayaka's beating
- She tosses the Grief Seed to Kyouko
- Madoka helps Sayaka away, and Kyouko thinks she's being stupid...
- Rain falls
- Madoka tells Sayaka that she shouldn't fight that way, that it not hurting is just a lie
- It hurts Madoka just to watch her
- Sayaka's only purpose is to kill witches, she has no other reason to exist
- Sayaka confronts Madoka with what Kyuubey said about her talent.
- Madoka has no right to criticize Sayaka, Sayaka doesn't want her pity
- Madoka watches, as Sayaka runs away
- Sayaka's Soul Gem darkens
- Planning to defeat Walpurgisnacht
- Homura won't give Kyouko any details> Kyuubey would like to know as well
- Sayaka is depleting herself. Its not just the darkening of the Gem, she also has started to carry a curse
- Sayaka is absent again
- Hitomi walks home with Kyousuke
- Sayaka never came home...
- Hitomi and Kyousuke talk, while Sayaka watcehs from a distance
- Sayaka fights some familiars
- Homura confronts her with what she's doing, and how her Soul Gem is at its limit. She tosses her a Grief Seed, but Sayaka kicks it away
- Homura's had enouh of Sayaka.
- Sayaka needs now reward, and will never use magic for her own benefit
- There is no need for her if she can't kill witches
- She knows that Homura's a liar, that she's given up on everything.
- What Sayaka is doing is hurting Madoka...and everything is for Madoka
- Homura has no interest in saving Sayaka, she just doesn't want Madoka to see Sayaka self destruct
- In that case, Homura may as well kill her now.
- Kyouko yanks Homura away before she can do it though
- Grenade!
- On a train, Sayaka hear's a conversation she very much does not like
- She confronts the men and...
- Madoka's searching for Sayaka, and runs across Kyuubey
- No matter how much she may hate him, he can't return Sayaka to normal
- Madoka would become the strongest Magical Girl in the world
- She could perhaps even warp the rules of the universe itself
- Madoka never thoguht she was worth anything, would never have an effect on anything
- Can she do what Homura can't? Can she return Sayaka to normal?
- Will she offer her soul for that wish?
- Yes, she will, she wants to...and then Kyuubey is filled with holes
- Homura drops her gun
- Why does Madoka always sacrifice herself? Why does she always say she's of no use, that she's worthless?
- Why can't she understand that people care for her, that there are people who would be sad if they lost her?
- Homura has completely lost her composure
- She falls to her knees, weeping
- Static
- Is Madoka remembering something?
- But she turns and leaves, before Homura can explain anything
- Madoka!
- And a new Kyuubey appears, and eats the corpse of the old one
- Homura's time manipulation magic
- She's from a separate timeline, she knows what he's planning
- Kyuubey, no, Incubator
- A train station, Kyouko finds Sayaka
- Sayaka doesn't care anymore, she doesn't know what was important
- Her Soul Gem is almost completely black
- In exchange for all the lives she saved, her soul has been filled with hatred and jealousy
- She even hurt Madoka
- "I'm really stupid"
- A Grief Seed appears
- "Sayaka!"
- Mahou Shoujo, Become Majo...
- Magia

The true fate of Magical Girls is revealed now, they are simply young witches, there to fulfill the cycle. Sayaka realized her mistake when it was too late, and Homura is about to break herself.

The iron control Homura has kept of the last eight episodes begins to slip, and we even see some of the original Homura. She desperately wants Madoka to listen, but something is preventing it. What was that static anyway?

[Fencedude]

Less than 24 hours to go before the final two episodes air.

TBS wants to make sure everyone knows (http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2567/1303324400673.jpg) (though for them its actually the final three episodes)

Edit: Oh, hey, the MBS (http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2690/1303324817714.jpg) version

[TheGreenMan]

Less than 24 hours to go before the final two episodes air.

TBS wants to make sure everyone knows (http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2567/1303324400673.jpg) (though for them its actually the final three episodes)

Edit: Oh, hey, the MBS (http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2690/1303324817714.jpg) version

My body isn't ready.

Oh look, Madoka has angel wings. That could be good or bad.

Sigh. My body isn't ready.

[Fencedude]

Episode 9

- Sayaka's Soul Gem transforms into a Grief Seed
- Oktavia von Sekendorf
- Kyouko grabs Sayaka's lifeless body
- Homura appears
- Taking Kyouko's hand, she stops time
- The witch is, of course, Sayaka
- Kyouko can't bring herself to throw away Sayaka's body, so they run instead
- Madoka walks along train tracks, and meets Homura and Kyouko. Neither will meet her eyes
- Homura tells her what happened. Kyouko can't seem to quite believe it herself yet
- The inevitable fate of those who become magical girls
- All of Sayaka's desires just led to a curse as powerful as her wish
- Kyouko confronts Homura. How can Homura say this, with Sayaka...with Madoka right there...
- "Are you human!?" "Of course not" *homu homu flip* "And neither are you"
- Homura walks away
- Madoka sits on her bed, Kyuubey appears. He confirms what Homura said
- Blah blah entropy blah blah
- Kyuubey's race does not have emotions
- Human souls create enough energy to overcome entropy, the most coming in the change between hope and despair in young women.
- "If you really think that, then you are our enemies"
- Madoka will become the greatest Magial Girl, and then the Worst Witch...
- Kyouko uses her Soul Gem to keep Sayaka's body...safe
- "Its never happened before" fuck you Kyuubey
- Kyouko calls Madoka over...
- Kyouko wants to try and save Sayaka
- She might remember the voice of a friend
- Stories where love and courage win in the end...
- Those stories are why she became a Magical Girl, Sayaka made her remember
- Tasty Stick!
- Homura realizes that Madoka's not in class, and leaves
- In a few days, a Walpurgisnacht will arrive
- They track down Sayaka...
- Love Me Do
- They enter Oktavia's Barrier
- Putting your own life in danger should only be done by people who have no other choice
- Oktavia's song starts to play...
- Madoka calls out to Sayaka
- Kyoko erects a barrier to protect Madoka, and fights Oktavia
- Red and Blue, swirling together. Kyouko reflects back on her and Sayaka...
- Oktavia grabs Madoka
- The floor splits open, and they start to fall
- "Let me have a pleasant dream, just once"
- Homura catches Madoka
- Kyouko telsl Homura to take Madoka and go. To protect the one thing she wants to protect until the very end
- She puts her hair down, and prays
- "Its lonely being buy yourself" I'll stay by your side, Sayaka"
- Kyouko
- Homura sits, alone again.
- Did she ever have a chance to save Sayaka? Of course not, says Kyuubey.
- Now, Homura's the only one left to fight Walpurgisnacht, so Madoka must become a magical girl...

And the real Kyouko comes out at last. A girl who wished to be a hero, who lost herself in her pain, and then finally found herself once again, through the actions of Miki Sayaka. She put her life on the line to save someone who probably hated her, and gave her life so that Sayaka would not die alone.

Whatever you think Kyouko's feelings for Sayaka were, it was one of the most poignant moments in recent memory.

But once again, Homura is alone, the only person standing between Walpurgisnacht and Madoka. What will she do? What can she do? Is she doomed to never finding the right path?

[Fencedude]

Episode 10

Timeline 1
- A girl stands at the front of the class, fidgeting. Its...Homura?! in glasses and braids
- She's shy and ca barely get her name out. She was in the hospital for a long time
- Madoka offers to take her to the Nurse's office, so she knows where it is
- They walk to the Nurse's office. Roles reversed from episode 1
- "It's a really weird name"
- She's unable to solve the problem on the board, and starts crying
- She can't participate in PE
- Homura walks home, and ponders how pathetic she is...and finds herself inside a Witch's Barrier
- Izabel
- And arriving to save her...Mami and Madoka
- At Mami's apartment
- Madoka only made her contract last week
- Mami knows about the Walpurgisnacht?
- Suddenly, Walpurgisnacht! And Mami is dead
- Madoka's the only one left who can defeat Walpurgisnacht
- Homura is scared, she wants them to run away
- Goodbye, Homura-chan
- Rain falls, Homura cries over Madoka's body
- Would you be willing to sell your soul for that wish?
- "I want to relive meeting Kaname-san for the first time, not as someone she protects, but as someone who can protect her instead!"

Timeline 2
- Homura wakes up in her hospital bed, and she has her Soul Gem
- First day of school again, Homura's more confident...and she very much confuses Madoka
- Beat up that drum Homura!
- Bombs for beginners!
- Patricia
- KABOOM!
- Walpurgisnacht
- Madoka becomes a Witch
- Back in time

Timeline 3
- She needs to tell them all
- Sayaka doesn't believe her
- She also doesn't like Homura's bombs
- Rading the Yakuza for weapons
- Oktavia von Sekendorf
- Madoka, Homura, Mami and Kyouko try to reach Sayaka
- Homura destroys Oktavia
- Mami kills Kyouko, she's gone nuts, she tries to kill Homura, but Madoka kills her instead
- Walpurgisnacht.
- Madoka and Homura lie dying, about to become witches. They have no more Grief Seeds
- Homura just wants them to become witches together...
- But Madoka lied, she still had Oktavia's Grief Seed...she uses it on Homura's Gem, she wants her to go back in time and stop this all from happening
- Save Madoka, prevent her from contracting at all
- I don't want to become a Witch
- Bang

Timeline 4
- Homura is not happy
- Hair down, eyes fixed
- Outside Madoka's window
- Homu?
- Raiding the military for weapons
- Roberta
- She'll stop the Walpurgisnacht by herself
- Walpurgisnacht
- Homura fightst he Walpurgisnacht.
- Madoka watches with Kyuubey, Homura sees them together and screams
- Homura tries to gell her not to do it, but she can't hear
- Madoka defeated Walpurgisnacht in one strike, but has become the Strongest Witch
- Kriemhild Gretchen
- She'll destroyt he planet within 10 days or so, but thats not Kyuubey's problem
- Homura's battlefield is not here

Timeline 5
- Homura destroys a Kyuubey, and chases the replacement
- And runs into Madoka
- Madoka...my one and only friend

- Connect

And there it is. The tragedy of Akemi Homura. Constanty repeating the same events, and trying and failing to find a way out.

Will she find it, or is she doomed to repeat the loop until she finally dies?

[Isuzu Inugami]

She put her life on the line to save someone who probably hated her, and gave her life so that Sayaka would not die alone.

For what it's worth, I don't think Sayaka hated Kyouko by the end. I could stand to rewatch the arc, but I think her attitude gets some serious adjustment once she hears Kyouko's story. Not that she's going to stand down from her ideals; but it's worth noting that at the end, in the train station, Kyouko is the person she's with, and Kyouko is really the only person who she can acknowledge as someone who will understand everything about her. It's a small solace, but it's something.

[Fencedude]

She put her life on the line to save someone who probably hated her, and gave her life so that Sayaka would not die alone.

For what it's worth, I don't think Sayaka hated Kyouko by the end. I could stand to rewatch the arc, but I think her attitude gets some serious adjustment once she hears Kyouko's story. Not that she's going to stand down from her ideals; but it's worth noting that at the end, in the train station, Kyouko is the person she's with, and Kyouko is really the only person who she can acknowledge as someone who will understand everything about her. It's a small solace, but it's something.

Yeah, right at the end, she realized that Kyouko was right.

[DiGiKerot]

Okay, that kind of broke my head. In a good way. I think.

[Vegard Aune]

Well, that was... Uh... What do I even say to all that? I'm still trying to collect my thoughts and figure out exactly what I just saw, but from what I could gather...
Madoka makes a wish to erase the very existence of all witches from the past, present and future throughout all dimensions in existence. Naturally, said wish burns out her power in less time than it takes for a beam of light to move one millimeter, but she figures it's alright-- If her wish has truly been granted, she'll just fade away rather than become a witch herself. And indeed, this is exactly what happens...

...

...Aaaaaaand I haven't the slightest clue what happened in the last ten minutes. Something about the universe being recreated into something slightly less miserable where magical girls no longer become witches, but they still have to fight some other strange entity and Kyubey's Anti-Entropy Squad apparently gets their energy from the defeat of said other strange entity rather than the conversion of Soul Gems into Grief Seeds and Homura continues to fight against them while Madoka is with her spiritually or...

...Yeah I think I'll have to rewatch this in better quality so that I may actually understand what the heck just happened in the end.


All things considered? I had hoped for a happier ending, and expected a much, much worse one. But I suppose this was about as good as it could reasonably get without feeling like a total cop-out.

[Fencedude]

I...uhh...well...

Hmm...

That was pretty awesome, I think.

I will have to ponder this further.

[William K]

...Yeah I think I'll have to rewatch this in better quality so that I may actually understand what the heck just happened in the end.

I believe that Madoka's wish was to basically assume the burden of all witches that are existing, have existed and will exist in the future, and while her mortal body was not strong enough to hold all that, it transformed her into some sort of superbeing that could remake the universe so that Puella Magi can exist without losing their souls. However, in the new universe, no one would remember her since she never existed in it.

Certainly not my optimal ending, but not as bad as feared. Wonder if they modified anything that Urobuchi wrote? :D

[cress2000]

That ended better than I feared it could, but there's still much to think about since a lot of it went over my head.

Also, Homura and the tanker truck = awesome.

[Fencedude]

Alright, a few notes.

Madoka's wish basically created a paradox. She essentially wished that she would erase all witches before they could form. Of course, eventually she herself would become a witch, but since her wish was all witches, this includes herself. So she basically paradoxed herself out of phase with reality, which is why no one but Homura remembers her.

In the process, she reset the universe a bit, but its not perfectly happy. Curses and despair still exist, but no longer will Magical Girls be doomed to become Witches. They must still fight against the "Majuu", but in a somewhat more traditonally Magical Girl sort of way. Homura is the only one who remembers the way things used to be.

Sayaka had the chance to return, like Mami and Kyouko did, but if she did so, her wish for Kyousuke would be voided. So she chose to sacrifice herself so that Kyousuke could continue playing music. Sad, but completely in character.

[Suwako Moriya]

Wow! That was a pretty powerful experience filled with happiness and sadness. Madoka making the ultimate sacrifice for the sake of so many. I feel like I should say more, but I'm sort of distracted right now. Plus, I get the feeling some others will put what I would have said into words better.

[DiGiKerot]

That was pretty awesome, I think.

I will have to ponder this further.

Yeah, I was a bit weirded out, not to mention overwhelmed, by it yesterday, though upon rewatching it this morning...

I think it's pretty much perfect.

I mean... Well, it's not really a term I'd like to use, but it is a very "Japanese" ending - I don't think those who were looking for something traditional in the Western sense will be especially enamoured with it. The ending does resonate a lot with the kind of odd thing which would happen at the end of PSOne era Final Fantasy games, or things like Utawarerumono, or any number of anime shows which end with a trip into the metaphysical crap rather than resolving themselves in a purely physical fashion.

I've seen the experience of watching the ending described elsewhere as being like watching Gen Urobuchi walk across a tightrope in a carnival show. It would have been so, so easy for him to make one misstep, and there's constantly this dreadful feeling that he's about to plummet to his death. Experience of shows with this kind of ending, particularly when visual novels or their authors are brought into the frame, makes you think that he will.

Which kind of made it an exhausting ending to watch the first time. I kept expecting something stupid or entirely nonsensical to happen. But it didn't happen. I... I just can't think of anything I'd feel justified in complaining about.

By the same virtue, though, it doesn't really leave me with much to say about it. I think it explains itself well without too much room for confusion. I do like that, in a fashion, it goes someway to explaining the tonal dissonance between the core work and the spin-offs taking place in the same universe.

[strangefour]

11

-"Thank you Homura." Fuck you rat.
-Penguin on your plate?
-Kyubey makes a good argument for going Vegan. Eating cattle is being as evil as him.
-Joan of Arc was a magical girl. Heh.
-Madoka's mom spends time drinking with Madoka's teacher in a room lit by heaven and hell. Is this where mom is every time before she wanders home drunk?
-Madoka's tears have finally broken down Homura's hard shell. Much hugging and crying follows. :cry:

-Bazooka Barrage!
-Wait, Walpugris-tan is Marie Antoinette?
-Did... did Homuhomu just chuck a gas tanker at Walpurgis? Hoo-WRRRRRRRRRY!
-Homura no. Don't give up. Do-- Madoka. Oh Mado-- No. No you didn't. Oh no. KYUBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!
-Oh hello Mami's boobs.

12

-Madoka... Madoka you just found a wish to recreate all mahou shoujo free of the taint of Incubation. :cry:
-Spirit guide Mami. :hug:
-TENGEN TOPPA MAHOU SHOUJO KANAME MADOKA!!
-Homuhomu... Where did the universe just go?
-Madoka erases every witch. Including herself as a witch. Madoka is the Goddess of magical girls.
-Sayaka :(

I... Um. I said any ending would be fine as long as everyone wasn't magically alive at the end and singing. But they did come back and music was played. Somehow Madoka made that alright. Madoka broke the universe to make it better.

The theme song is still sung from Homura's perspective. Only now the title is finally fitting. And I think I could stomach a sequel, maybe... maybe starring Charlotte. Charlotte kissing Mami. <3

[strangefour]

I...uhh...well...

Hmm...

That was pretty awesome, I think.

I will have to ponder this further.

Awesome yes. Yet I think having to wait sooo long for this finale has hurt the ending a bit. We did get treated to fully finished animation. But we had so much time to ponder the possibilities after episode 10 that we could see a lot of the events coming. In one form or another.

10 was the best and worst place to have a pause. It gave us so much information to think about. Confirming some fears and twisting others. However it might have been better if we hadn't known about Homuhomu's unending love for Madoka and her quest to be the most badass magical girl until the week before the double episode finale.

[Sly05]

Well that was an emotional ride. The end was not as bleak as I feared it would be, yet it didn't wrap up everything so nicely that there wasn't any consequences to what happened. Madoka sacrifices herself so that she erases witches for all eternity and voids her own existence while the other magical girls still exist and fight a different enemy, but only disappear when they use up all their energy. For these kind of endings, there is a fine line between it succeeding and coming across as a lame cop out, but I think Madoka probably succeeded better than any other similar ending I can think of.

Having several historically significant women like Jeanne D'arc and Cleopatra be magical girls was fun. I also appreciated the chance to see several other magical girls when Madoka was traveling through time and space to stop them from turning into witches. I couldn't really tell who was one of the witches we'd seen in the series outside of the first girl who was obviously Walpurgisnacht though. I'll leave that to someone more perceptive than me or when some production notes get released.

I was kind of disappointed nothing bad happened to Kyuubey. Madoka should have included a clause in her wish for them to start having emotions. I did think their attitude towards humans was interesting, especially as outlined in episode 11. They are just so alien to human emotion that they can't possible comprehend what magical girls were going through or feel anything for us beyond what we feel for farm animals. They made for one of the more unique villains in recent memory.

[bored@lazy]

Meh, it was an ok ending. I didn't really feel any emotion during it, but that's probably because I didn't really connect with any of the characters apart from Homura during episodes 10-12. Good show but not in my top 20 or anything, still a definite purchase if released in English.

[TheGreenMan]

Wow...just wow. Madoka becomes a god, takes away all the girls' ability to turn into witches, and saves Homura and recreates the universe.
We get some very touching scenes between Homura and Madoka. The whole scene reminded me very much of the last episode of Kannazuki no Miko. Yurific.
Sayaka still dies anyway, taking our ability to ship her with Kyouko with her. Damn it.
So, Mami, Kyouko, and Homura live on to fight...demons?

Well...that was one awesome anime. The seriyuu, espcially Saito and Yuuki do a fantastic job...and dare I say, their fucking best job they've ever done. Shinbo proves once again he's a genius. The staff did a wonderful job.

Now, if you'll excuse me...I to find the two people who gave this "Worst ever" ratings on ANN and smash their faces in.

[TheGreenMan]

I got to say that this IS THE MAGICAL SHOW TO BEAT. I want to see who can top this. If anyone can.

[MelancholicMariya]

Now, if you'll excuse me...I to find the two people who gave this "Worst ever" ratings on ANN and smash their faces in.

I was listening to an ANNcast the other day because it mentioned in the description something like "We discuss Evangelion 2.22, Madoka Magica--" so I turned it on and I got this regarding Madoka Magica:

"It's about girls talking about boys and giggling and all that nonsense."

So if you could find the guy who said that.. then..

[William K]

Ok, after a rewatch...

- The tea scene at the beginning of 12 seemed like something meta you would see in Umineko
- I think I still prefer Nanoha's ribbon scene, but that might change on further rewatches...
- I'm somewhat disappointed that Kyuubei didn't get pummeled but 'he' was never truly evil in a sense
- The bigger disappointment is that Homura never went back to being the sweet, innocent girl she was before all that time-travelling
- Basically what Madoka did was convert a 'godless' universe that was powered by the laws of physics (entropy) to one where she is the power of hope (good) which had to be balanced by despair (evil) as represented by the creatures Homura and the other mahou shoujo are fighting in the new world
- So, where is this in my list of favourite anime? I have to say the broadcast gap caused by the earthquake/tsunami did spoil my enjoyment especially as it came right after episode 10. I'd probably have to rewatch it maybe one episode a day sometime in the future to give it a final ranking

[Vegard Aune]

Now, if you'll excuse me...I to find the two people who gave this "Worst ever" ratings on ANN and smash their faces in.

I was listening to an ANNcast the other day because it mentioned in the description something like "We discuss Evangelion 2.22, Madoka Magica--" so I turned it on and I got this regarding Madoka Magica:

"It's about girls talking about boys and giggling and all that nonsense."

So if you could find the guy who said that.. then..
...That is the most blatantly untrue statement I have ever heard, or at least not far from it. So with that in mind... *goes to fetch his lightsaber* TheGreenMan, mind if I join you on your quest to bring down the hammer of justice upon these fools?

...Wait...

I think I might be overreacting. But seriously, I'm just left scratching my head at how anyone could even come to such a conclusion. One would have to either not have seen one second of the show, or alternately jumping in midway through episode 1 and then turning it off before it was even over. That's literally the only explaination I can think of.

[HitokiriShadow]

Fiiiiiiiiiiinally! Ah, Madoka Magica, how I've missed you these last ~5 weeks.


Episode 11
So we get an explanation of how Madoka has become such a powerful magical girl. Or at least a theory, by Kyuubei. Magical girls' power are related to their misfortune.... and Homura's time resets/world hopping have caused Madoka the accumulated misfortune of these worlds to attach to Madoka.

Wow, the Kyuubei's have been far more involved with humans than it seemed. Their magical girl scheme is not remotely recent, its been going on through most of human history.

Homura finally breaks down, cries, runs over and hugs Madoka and tells her about what she's been through, what she's doing, for Madoka's sake. ;_;

FFFFFFF- Homura's overwhelming will to continue in her goal, to not lose hope that she can protect Madoka, is basically what's been keeping her soul gem pure. Now that she knows (or is pretty sure, its still just a theory, and one coming from Kyuubei) that her time resets have just been making things worse for the very person she's trying to protect, so she can't bring herself to do it. And suddenly she starts going from completely pure to critical mass in no time...

Then Madoka comes and tells Homura its okay now.

And then the episode ends with a really, really nice Buriki end card.


Episode 12
Madoka's wish: To erase every witch before they are born. From every world, past and future.

She then stops every magical girl ever from becoming a witch right when they're at the end of the line. And in doing so, she breaks the space-time continuum, destroys the world, and then recreates it. Ultimately, she rewrites the laws of the universe, eliminating witches but keeping magical girls by giving them another enemy to fight, and herself becomes an eternal, ethereal being, forgotten by the world except for Homura (and her little brother, sort of).

This was a really ambitious type of ending to go for. Its a kind of ending (various degrees of resets) that many shows have tried, but few have managed to do in a remotely good way. There are so many ways for endings involving fixing the past and anything involving multiple worlds/timelines to go horribly wrong or just fall flat. See My-HiME for a somewhat infamous example of the former, along any number of shows that do any sort of "reset" (and by reset, I mean anything that goes back to about the beginning, even if there are changes).

But here.... it worked. It actually worked. And it wasn't just "good", it was fantastic. Madoka's conversation with Homura in, uh, the time-space void, I guess, was an amazing emotional climax to the show. Then they followed it up with Madoka chatting with Sayaka's spirit. And it does seem like Sayaka is destined to fall no matter what. Even in Madoka's new world, Sayaka has to disappear.

Anyway, great ending. Too bad about the wait, but thankfully the break game at the perfect pause point (and about the only one the show had), and if that was the price to pay for Shaft to not screw them up by delivering unfinished episodes, the price was more than worth it. The last two episodes absolutely met my expectations, and I can now say this is one of the best shows I've ever seen.

[HitokiriShadow]

Sayaka had the chance to return, like Mami and Kyouko did, but if she did so, her wish for Kyousuke would be voided. So she chose to sacrifice herself so that Kyousuke could continue playing music. Sad, but completely in character.

Ah, okay, that's a more sensible explanation for it. It looked to me like they were just chatting before the reality they were watching became undone. I was under the impression when they left, that they were both going to the new world and apparently missed or misinterpreted the part where Sayaka chose to give up her own life to let Kyousuke (and Hitomi's) happiness remain.

[HitokiriShadow]

But here.... it worked. It actually worked. And it wasn't just "good", it was fantastic. Madoka's conversation with Homura in, uh, the time-space void, I guess, was an amazing emotional climax to the show. Then they followed it up with Madoka chatting with Sayaka's spirit. And it does seem like Sayaka is destined to fall no matter what. Even in Madoka's new world, Sayaka has to disappear.


After thinking for a bit, I've come up with a few key reasons why this ending works so well when almost all others fail (some of them really spectacularly).

1) It makes sense and its pretty easy to follow what's going on, why, and how (more or less).

2) It's all based on plot points and in-world mechanics that we've known about or at least suspected for a while, even if some of them were only confirmed in the previous episode or two. Nothing was tossed in at the last minute.

3) It's only a "reset" in the vaguest sense. Things were rewritten, but even ignoring Madoka's absence, the world is very different from any point in the main timeline. In fact, its much more like some of the previous timelines. But beyond that, Madoka did something akin to rewriting the laws of physics. The very nature of the world changed.

4) More significantly, its far from a happily ever after ending. This avoids the tonal whiplash some shows suffer from. Actual sacrifices were made. Not just Madoka's situation, but Sayaka chose to remain dead. Those that are still alive didn't have their pre-magical girl suffering undone, they still have to fight life and death battles, and have consequences when they reach the end of their magical girl lifespan. This prevents the ending from feeling like a cop-out, feeling forced, feeling unnaturally happy after so much sorrow and tragedy, and most importantly for me, it doesn't undermine the tragedy of the rest of the show. Case in point: My-HiME___, in which the show took a really dark turn, had some really good tragedy.... and then ending basically just goes "Okay, everyone's okay and happy now!" and made all of that tragedy seem just empty.

[TnAdct1]

I got to say that this IS THE MAGICAL SHOW TO BEAT. I want to see who can top this. If anyone can.
Personally, that title still belongs to either Sailor Moon or Cardcaptor Sakura.

[bear]

I had to wait to write this so I could even attempt to organize my thoughts. Did I like it? No. Did I respect these episodes' adherence to the quality and continuity of the show? A resounding YES. It moved me but not though some cheap manipulation of my emotions.

By not liking it, I mean that the show left me sad and depressed for the fate of the girls. Even though Madoka came up with a solution that stopped the endless cycle of Magical Girl -> Witch creation, the girls are still destined to fight until they are either destroyed or run out of power and disappear. Neither a very palatable outcome.

By respect, I felt that the author kept to a vision where choices don't always work out perfectly. This type of show is very hard to end in a satisfying manner. Most of those I've watched that promise major revelations have left me disapointed. It kept away from a "happy" end where everything works out and everyone survives. It also didn't keep going into a dark place where the world is destroyed and Kriemhild Gretchen rules. It kept to a middle ground where we have a reasonably logical outcome to an apparent insurmountable problem, while not sugar coating it. I would not have expected less from a show that has been such a quality product.

And I wouldn't take back one minute of the time I spent watching it.

[EmperorBrandon]

Well... finally got around to watching this first thing today (yay, I can end my partial Internet embargo), and I think I'm really pleased.

11 really had some great moments. I liked some of the scene with Madoka's mom Junko. Out of all the non-magical girl "civilian" characters, her role is one of the most interesting to me and it was nice seeing the interactions with her daughter and with Saotome (kind of seems odd for the later to being in a serious scene given how goofy she's been up to this point, but I liked that one). Also, Walpurgis Night's appearance was so very awesome. Kind of like we've just seen her for the first time even though we know about her already...

As far as 12 and the ending is concerned, I think I'm decently pleased given the direction the series had taken up to this point. It seems to "fit" in my mind. As far as my reaction goes, it was kind of like a burst of awesomeness with all the initial "Madoka becomes a goddess" stuff. Madoka awesomeness just really excites me, and getting to know her strong-willed side in 10 really helps it match this. Afterward it feels like it drags a little bit even though otherwise I'm not really irked by how it ended up. There's a lot to think about here and it's going to be very interesting to rewatch. As far as my overall evaluation of the series go, I guess I will see in time how it holds up but it's undoubtedly a favorite, and maybe absolute tops as far as anime-original series I've followed as it has aired is concerned (the closest competition there would be Sora no Woto).

[EmperorBrandon]

I got to say that this IS THE MAGICAL SHOW TO BEAT. I want to see who can top this. If anyone can.
Personally, that title still belongs to either Sailor Moon or Cardcaptor Sakura.

I really don't think Sailor Moon has held up that well... Cardcaptor Sakura is a beloved favorite that I've watched many times over, so maybe I would agree on it, though it still feels really odd to compare them even if they are both "magical girl" series. I suppose comparing it to Princess Tutu would seem more fair since that has some darker moments and tragedy, and Madoka Magica probably doesn't beat it in my mind. I do think it stands a good chance of holding up better for me than Lyrical Nanoha, though.

[bored@lazy]

Now, if you'll excuse me...I to find the two people who gave this "Worst ever" ratings on ANN and smash their faces in.

I was listening to an ANNcast the other day because it mentioned in the description something like "We discuss Evangelion 2.22, Madoka Magica--" so I turned it on and I got this regarding Madoka Magica:

"It's about girls talking about boys and giggling and all that nonsense."

So if you could find the guy who said that.. then..

Now as much as I dislike a lot of opinions presented on ANNCast that's quite unfair. Less than a minute after that was said in the podcast (by the British guy, who at that point had only seen episode 1), Zac did mention to him about how Madoka( apparently) deliberately goes against many typical "Magical Girl" conventions. At which point said British guy says that he'll give the show a few more episodes.

[Vegard Aune]

Now as much as I dislike a lot of opinions presented on ANNCast that's quite unfair. Less than a minute after that was said in the podcast (by the British guy, who at that point had only seen episode 1), Zac did mention to him about how Madoka( apparently) deliberately goes against many typical "Magical Girl" conventions. At which point said British guy says that he'll give the show a few more episodes.
Well, I suppose that does make a bit more sense. But I still don't see how one can come to that conclusion when the very first scene in the show is of a battle against some Eldritch Abomination in a ruined city set to a song that wouldn't seem out of place in a horror-movie...

[Fencedude]

Well, I suppose that does make a bit more sense. But I still don't see how one can come to that conclusion when the very first scene in the show is of a battle against some Eldritch Abomination in a ruined city set to a song that wouldn't seem out of place in a horror-movie...

It has a female protagonist and "magical" in the title, of course its not actually worth watching.

[SnowfairyX]

Meh, it was an ok ending. I didn't really feel any emotion during it, but that's probably because I didn't really connect with any of the characters apart from Homura during episodes 10-12.
That's kind of how I felt as well but I'm going to have to re-watch the last episode again. The ending was definitely solid but I really wish the characters were developed a bit better so I could feel a little more emotion. Sayaka's story arc was the only one that nearly managed to make me shed a tear or two. But the final episode, unfortunately, has not had that effect on me, at least not yet. The series probably should have been about twice as long since it feels like there's a bunch of stuff left out and extra episodes could have been used for more detailed character development, but I don't think giving it a second season at this point would do it any service since it seems to have ended fairly conclusively.

I'm not sure if this series overall will rank very high for me over time but character-wise, Kyuubey has managed to become one of my all-time favorite characters. To me, he feels like such a refreshing, unique, and fascinating character and can't recall another show with a character quite like him. I think he carried a good portion of this show and it wouldn't be the same without him.

I may add more thoughts later.

[Fencedude]

Since, as we all know, that when one Magical Girl gives another her ribbons, its the equivalent of an engagement ceremony, Homura is now married to god.

And thats awesome.

[strangefour]

Since, as we all know, that when one Magical Girl gives another her ribbons, its the equivalent of an engagement ceremony, Homura is now married to god.

And thats awesome.

That is super awesome. A day after watching it, still one of the high points (even if it felt better in Nanoha). Which balances out against the talky bits of stuff we suspected and the lack of Kyubeys being murdered en masse. As someone said, a tightrope walk not going to far in either direction. Nothing was awfully handled but there weren't enough fantastic moments. Like it would have been nice for her mom to see Madoka stop a building from falling on the evacuation shelter or something.

Still, Homuhomu married God. :blush:

[bored@lazy]

Since, as we all know, that when one Magical Girl gives another her ribbons, its the equivalent of an engagement ceremony, Homura is now married to god.

And thats awesome.

So Homura tried to marry the mother of god but was promptly rejected?

[regz91]

Closure for Sayaka, yay! I really thought she needed this last scene to finish out her character, and I was a little disappointed when it seemed like we weren't going to get it. You can piece it together from how she behaves in episode 8, but it's nice to have her say, flat-out, "Even knowing how it all turns out, I don't regret it." Sayaka is still the only character I really care about (although I guess Homura did pretty well by the end), and I was glad to see her get the ending she deserves.

That sure was an upbeat ending, though. I never liked the way Urobuchi was hyped as this writer of bleak and depressing endings, but even I was surprised by how nicely things wrapped up. I think it feels about right. The animation for the final episode helped a lot, selling the idea that Madoka's wish was a Big Deal. For me, though, parts of the ending felt a little like the ending to Demonbane - much like huge chunks of episode 10 reminded me of Sumaga. A lot of Madoka Magica does kind of feel like Urobuchi swiping (with loving care, I'm sure) from his fellow Nitroplus writers and putting his own spin on things.

It was also nice to see one last glimpse of the new Kyubey, who gets along great with the girls he contracts with, but who also thinks this other system he's hearing about, with the lies and the deceit and the horrible agony, seems pretty cool too. I mean, either one is good, right?

[MelancholicMariya]

Now, if you'll excuse me...I to find the two people who gave this "Worst ever" ratings on ANN and smash their faces in.

I was listening to an ANNcast the other day because it mentioned in the description something like "We discuss Evangelion 2.22, Madoka Magica--" so I turned it on and I got this regarding Madoka Magica:

"It's about girls talking about boys and giggling and all that nonsense."

So if you could find the guy who said that.. then..

Now as much as I dislike a lot of opinions presented on ANNCast that's quite unfair. Less than a minute after that was said in the podcast (by the British guy, who at that point had only seen episode 1), Zac did mention to him about how Madoka( apparently) deliberately goes against many typical "Magical Girl" conventions. At which point said British guy says that he'll give the show a few more episodes.

Well, it was more of how he represented the show. As you probably know, a lot of ANN members listen to what Zac or Justin says and they take it as fact. Not all the members do this but a fair few seem to. So him saying that about Madoka Magica brought some fears this may become the next K-ON! of ANN, where it's instantly shit and it's all about girls doing girly things.

On the other hand he shouldn't of even said that kind of stuff about it. He has his right to his opinion but everything aside from the kind of dark overtone was wrong. I don't think Madoka and ever did anything remotely girly in episode 1 other than.. well walk to school with other girls?

Though to the surprise of everyone Zac actually corrected the British guy and didn't allow the person to misrepresent the series. Although I continue to question Zac's "story sucks, visuals are awesome" opinion.

I guess people should just learn not to judge a show off of it's first episode!

Also what's wrong with girls doing girly things? aaaa

[dsmith]

Now, if you'll excuse me...I to find the two people who gave this "Worst ever" ratings on ANN and smash their faces in.

I was listening to an ANNcast the other day because it mentioned in the description something like "We discuss Evangelion 2.22, Madoka Magica--" so I turned it on and I got this regarding Madoka Magica:

"It's about girls talking about boys and giggling and all that nonsense."

So if you could find the guy who said that.. then..

Now as much as I dislike a lot of opinions presented on ANNCast that's quite unfair. Less than a minute after that was said in the podcast (by the British guy, who at that point had only seen episode 1), Zac did mention to him about how Madoka( apparently) deliberately goes against many typical "Magical Girl" conventions. At which point said British guy says that he'll give the show a few more episodes.

Well, it was more of how he represented the show. As you probably know, a lot of ANN members listen to what Zac or Justin says and they take it as fact. Not all the members do this but a fair few seem to. So him saying that about Madoka Magica brought some fears this may become the next K-ON! of ANN, where it's instantly shit and it's all about girls doing girly things.

On the other hand he shouldn't of even said that kind of stuff about it. He has his right to his opinion but everything aside from the kind of dark overtone was wrong. I don't think Madoka and ever did anything remotely girly in episode 1 other than.. well walk to school with other girls?

Though to the surprise of everyone Zac actually corrected the British guy and didn't allow the person to misrepresent the series. Although I continue to question Zac's "story sucks, visuals are awesome" opinion.

I guess people should just learn not to judge a show off of it's first episode!

Also what's wrong with girls doing girly things? aaaa

Eh, there really was a fair amount of 'girly' stuff in the first episode. Talk of boyfriends, secret admirers, love letters to Hitomi, Sayaka claiming Madoka as her wife, the discussion in the restaurant, hints of violin boy, etc. Even the chase in the back halls of the department store carried a bit of that, with Madoka's attempts to protect Kyubey, as well as Mami's little hop-skip-flowery transformation.

For someone trying to come up with a quick comment about a show he rushed to watch (along with a few others) just so he'd be at least a little caught up on things before the interview, I certainly wouldn't hold it against him.

Zac, on the other hand.. well, I'd rather go to 4chan for enlightening discussion than give any weight to his opinions.

[MelancholicMariya]

Now, if you'll excuse me...I to find the two people who gave this "Worst ever" ratings on ANN and smash their faces in.

I was listening to an ANNcast the other day because it mentioned in the description something like "We discuss Evangelion 2.22, Madoka Magica--" so I turned it on and I got this regarding Madoka Magica:

"It's about girls talking about boys and giggling and all that nonsense."

So if you could find the guy who said that.. then..

Now as much as I dislike a lot of opinions presented on ANNCast that's quite unfair. Less than a minute after that was said in the podcast (by the British guy, who at that point had only seen episode 1), Zac did mention to him about how Madoka( apparently) deliberately goes against many typical "Magical Girl" conventions. At which point said British guy says that he'll give the show a few more episodes.

Well, it was more of how he represented the show. As you probably know, a lot of ANN members listen to what Zac or Justin says and they take it as fact. Not all the members do this but a fair few seem to. So him saying that about Madoka Magica brought some fears this may become the next K-ON! of ANN, where it's instantly shit and it's all about girls doing girly things.

On the other hand he shouldn't of even said that kind of stuff about it. He has his right to his opinion but everything aside from the kind of dark overtone was wrong. I don't think Madoka and ever did anything remotely girly in episode 1 other than.. well walk to school with other girls?

Though to the surprise of everyone Zac actually corrected the British guy and didn't allow the person to misrepresent the series. Although I continue to question Zac's "story sucks, visuals are awesome" opinion.

I guess people should just learn not to judge a show off of it's first episode!

Also what's wrong with girls doing girly things? aaaa

Eh, there really was a fair amount of 'girly' stuff in the first episode. Talk of boyfriends, secret admirers, love letters to Hitomi, Sayaka claiming Madoka as her wife, the discussion in the restaurant, hints of violin boy, etc. Even the chase in the back halls of the department store carried a bit of that, with Madoka's attempts to protect Kyubey, as well as Mami's little hop-skip-flowery transformation.

For someone trying to come up with a quick comment about a show he rushed to watch (along with a few others) just so he'd be at least a little caught up on things before the interview, I certainly wouldn't hold it against him.

Zac, on the other hand.. well, I'd rather go to 4chan for enlightening discussion than give any weight to his opinions.

I really must of forgotten about all of the admirer talk. Maybe my criticism on the guy was way too harsh, that is entirely my fault. Yeah, no I was pretty harsh on him seeing as you just reminded me he watched an episode as he didn't watch any anime recently, my bad.

I think the best memory I have of Zac is his two hour long battle with infamous Evangelion fanatic and ANN forum member, V.

That's about it.

[something]

Episodes 11-12:

- ::finishes rewatching episode 10:: I'd rewatched episodes 1-3 maybe a month and a half ago or so. They were still good, but I was sort of feeling like the show might not hold up on a second watch. Like without the mystery of what would happen, without the speculation and discussion, that I'd be left with just, say, noticing all the animation flaws instead of bring enthralled by the plot. But... damn. Episode 10 is still absolutely stunning. I teared up again when Homura had to kill Madoka, and got chills when the prologue scene was played again. Thank goodness we got episode 10 before the delays... I think I'm ready to finish this now. On we go.

- Ah, we start off right in the middle of the conversation that started two fricking months ago. ::briefly goes to watch the last scene of episode 9:: Okay, back to 11.
- So it's been a month.
- "You've raised Madoka to be the strongest witch ever." QB hasn't lost any of his ability to shit all over Homura. And the "Madoka was getting stronger each iteration" theory is correct.

- Fuck. Sayaka's funeral. They left her body in a hotel, which is better than on train tracks at any rate.
- Naze Nani Mahou Shoujo! QB-sensei's lecture is in session. From biology to evolution to history, QB-sensei tells all. Got to love that last bit... "If you's never come to this planet..." "You'd probably all still be living in caves." I don't know if it's even possible for the writers to be pushing this "good of the many with the sacrifice of the few" moral dilemma any harder. Damn. This is where all you can really do, in Madoka's situation, is say, "fuck the many, I only get one life".

- An unexpected but welcome degree of focus on Madoka's mother. Even the teacher too. I can't tell if this is just a good way to illustrate how much events have changed Madoka, or if they're hinting that mom is in for some trouble. =(

- Madoka goes to visit Homura. I can't even imagine what is running through Homura's mind when she sees Madoka.
- And the facade completely crumbles. She does her best to HOMUHOMU HAIR FLIP a display of confidence but can't keep it up. Damn.
- Fucking brilliant. Homura really becomes a different person when she drops the act. And Saitou Chiwa plays it masterfully - the change in her voice and what it signifies is extremely clear. She finally comes clean, in this timeline, and now I'm wondering what Madoka could be thinking.
- I would think she, while not really comprehending, felt Homura's sincerity. Which means I'm even more certain mom is screwed, because that's the one thing that would force Madoka's hand right now.
- Oh and speaking of timelines, they have been implying heavily in this episode that there's many more than five. Episode 10 played the five very straightforward, but it's not like there was anything stopping them from simply saying there were more and therefore making it canon.

- Camping! Wai wai~! =D
- Hair flip. Homura is ready. Here we go...
- Oh shit. Already got goosebumps.
- Unlimited bazzoka works?
- HOLY SHIT. How long did it take her to set this up? (Trick question: 0 seconds)
- But, of course, it's futile.

- Kaname-mama! Now, no matter what kind of speech Madoka gives, there's no way her mom would really let her go, but, anime. I was quite interested when she said "Then take me with you" because that's totally not what I was expecting.

- Well, this is the first actual sign we've gotten that Homura's power is limited. It's not surprising that it is, but so far it's seemed to always be there when she needed it.
- OH SHIIIIIIT, wow, I really, really thought they were going to end the episode as Homura's soul gem darkened and the screen went black. That... ...that would have been the most insane and awesome cliffhanger EVER (if these weren't airing back to back, anyway, but y'know).

So mama is safe after all. But Madoka has contracted. She understands Homura's feelings... but she doesn't have a choice. She knows that Homura can redo this if she fails. And she knows that if she doesn't do it, Homura will either redo it once again, or give up and become a witch. Rationally, this is the only choice Madoka could have made.

Normally this is where epic speculation would ensue for a week. I do miss the fact that we're not getting that this time... but there's something to be said for being able to jump right into the next episode, I suppose. One left! Eleven was fucking spectacular. I have no idea what 12 will bring...


Episode 12:

- Madoka's wish. Madoka will become god. Madoka will rewrite the fabric of reality. "This is my prayer. This is my wish. FULFILL IT, INCUBATOR!" Madoka is pretty fucking badass right now, holy shit.
- This is an utterly amazing wish for her to choose, btw. 20 minutes still remain to see hwo it shakes out, but it's simultaneously a happy ending, and quite possibly the effective death of Madoka. She will become god, only to lock herself away in hell.
- Mami handing over the notebook. Beautiful.

- Madoka, you are sparkling and you are GLORIOUS.
- She's saving adorable international magical girls! Although for some, it looks like they still disappear.
- Madoka's soul gem is a comet of DESPAIR. o_O
- HOLY SHIT COSTUME CHANGE. MADOKA LEVEL UP!
- RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS RIBBONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- Oh, Kyousuke, remember him?
- Not that he matters - Madoka gets to say her farewell to Sayaka. Bye bye, Sayaka. ;_;
- Ah! This makes sense. At first I was wondering why Sayaka stayed dead but the other two didn't; it's because they never turned into witches. Madoka may have rewritten the rules of mahou shoujo-dom and erased the concept of witches and stabilized entropy in their stead, but I don't think she can literally *undo* any witches. She can just erase the magical girl/witch connection.
- ["Is she a character from an anime or something?" Heh.]
- And she doesn't totally reset the world. Magical girls still fight, still die. And there's not necessarily a perfect way out: you don't turn into a witch, but you still disappear. And there's no witches - but there are still curses. Still demons that need to be fought.

...When Homura materialized a bow, I think my heart skipped a beat.

Fucking... amazing. A bit of a shame we just gets credits on a white background, but... oh. I just checked the timer.

Post-ED:
- "Ganbatte."

SO. FUCKING. NAILED. IT.

People (like strangefour already, poo on you!) are undoubtedly going to complain that it was too easy, but BAH I say. Unless you believe that the only allowable ending is an ultimate despair/kill 'em all ending, this one struck an incredible balance.

The situation was not really reset. Girls who became witches aren't coming back, although they've been given a chance to rest in peace. Sayaka is gone. Curses still flow throughout the world. Demons prey on and kill humans. A brutal, deadly fight goes on. Magical girls no longer have to be tricked and turned into cursed abominations, but they have no long-term future: they simply fight until they can fight no longer, and then disappear. Madoka became like a god, but is not omnipotent. She can promise you an honorable and respectful death, but she can't save you from harm.

We don't even end with Madoka reappearing, having finished her task. Instead we end with Homura spreading out wings of despair, fighting on all alone (doesn't seem much of a stretch to assume Mami and Kyouko are dead by this point) against an unending torrent of demons. And there's only one thing keeping her going... "Ganbatte".

Madoka represents hope, and I don't think it's wrong for us to have some. Especially when it's not even hope fulfilled - just a potential hope. There's no promise that Madoka and Homura's battle will ever end. The ribbon exchange only goes one way this time. Will Homura ever be able to return the favor?

Before I started this tonight, I wasn't sure what I wanted to see these episodes do. Well, they've just given me an answer.

It's an ambiguous, uncertain ending... and downright gorgeously so.

[something]

Episodes 11-12:
Oh god I totally forgot to talk about the QBees.

The simple resolution with them was perfect. As much as we looove to haaate them, even the most ardent QB haters should understand that as horribly manipulative as they were to achieve their goals, they weren't lying about what that goal was. With the universe reborn and their optimal method - chosen with emotionless efficiency and ruthlessness devoid of all concept of human moral inhibitions - no longer viable, or even conceivable, they're perfectly capable of working in a more symbiotic manner if that's what their painfully rational brains suggest as the optimal available method.

There is no revenge on the QBees, no comeuppance, no mass slaughter, because it would fulfill no purpose. Whether or not it would be just, it would not be productive. It would only be cathartic release for an audience that's fiercely shaken its collective fist at its beloved girls' tormentors for months. But leave that to fanart and doujins (http://danbooru.donmai.us/pool/show/2939).

Madoka understood this, which is why she did not blow a wish on the genocide of their species. Homura understood this, which is why she openly works with them in the new world. As viewers, we don't have to understand it, and can continue to delight in their mutilation and slaughter - but understanding it at least a little sure enhances the ending for me.

Even if I'll still smile any time I see Nanoha feeding QB a starlight breaker.

[something]

I got to say that this IS THE MAGICAL SHOW TO BEAT. I want to see who can top this. If anyone can.
No mahou shoujo series has tried to do something quite like this before, and it's unlikely one will attempt it in the future without coming off a poor copy. I'm not the kind of person who considers uniqueness a necessary or even terribly important trait in evaluating the quality of a show, but I can nonetheless say that Madoka is one of the most truly "unique" anime created in a very, very long time.

[EmperorBrandon]

Unless you believe that the only allowable ending is an ultimate despair/kill 'em all ending, this one struck an incredible balance.

Yeah, thinking back on it, I'm pretty impressed with how much of a "balance" they struck. I wasn't really wanting a thoroughly depressing ending, but on the other hand something too happy just wouldn't fit with the show either. I think they found that nice middle ground that works well with the story.

[something]

http://mantan-web.jp/2011/04/22/20110422dog00m200028000c.html

In the Osaka region, Madoka pulled in 2.3% ratings. Which, as far as I know, is really damned good for a 3am otaku show. Also, 22.6% of all TVs that were turned on and watching something that that time, were watching Madoka.

And current rankings for DVDs from various retailers:
Amazon (http://blog-imgs-17.fc2.com/y/a/r/yaraon/1_20110423094645.jpg)
HMV (http://blog-imgs-17.fc2.com/y/a/r/yaraon/2_20110423094644.jpg)
Animate (http://blog-imgs-17.fc2.com/y/a/r/yaraon/4_20110423094641.jpg)
Toranoana (http://blog-imgs-17.fc2.com/y/a/r/yaraon/3_20110423094643.jpg)

Utter domination. And that's all DVDs for Amazon, not just anime, Harry Potter is right below all the Madokas.

Other stuff:
The mahou shoujo in the ED (http://wiki.puella-magi.net.nyud.net/File:Puellamagis.png). Puella Magi wiki is already working on it of course, although I can't help but think Charlotte must be the one next to last on the right. The hair is just way too perfect a match, but fourth from the left isn't totally far-fetched.
They've got my Charlotte as Isabel though... but honestly, since so many of the witches weren't particularly humanoid, only a few can be mapped with any certainty. Isabel was just, uh, an arch.
Second from the left is definitely Elly/Kirsten, the long twintails and bow shape match.
Right of Kyouko has to be Walpurgis, the hair is very distinctive.
I can buy Else Maria, all we know is that she has long hair, all splayed out, and 5th from the left matches best.

List of Witch cards (http://wiki.puella-magi.net.nyud.net/Characters).

[EmperorBrandon]

List of Witch cards (http://wiki.puella-magi.net.nyud.net/Characters).

I'm wondering, now that the series is over, if the next update will actually reveal those witches that didn't appear and got a question mark card.

[something]

女神まどか (http://www.pixiv.net/search.php?word=%E5%A5%B3%E7%A5%9E%E3%81%BE%E3%81% A9%E3%81%8B&s_mode=s_tag) - the Madoka goddess-version tag (Megami Madoka) already has almost 8 pages (154 images) of art on Pixiv already, damn.

[Keith Palmer]

We don't even end with Madoka reappearing, having finished her task. Instead we end with Homura spreading out wings of despair, fighting on all alone (doesn't seem much of a stretch to assume Mami and Kyouko are dead by this point) against an unending torrent of demons. And there's only one thing keeping her going... "Ganbatte".

Madoka represents hope, and I don't think it's wrong for us to have some. Especially when it's not even hope fulfilled - just a potential hope. There's no promise that Madoka and Homura's battle will ever end. The ribbon exchange only goes one way this time. Will Homura ever be able to return the favor?

Before I started this tonight, I wasn't sure what I wanted to see these episodes do. Well, they've just given me an answer.

It's an ambiguous, uncertain ending... and downright gorgeously so.

That's a "useful" interpretation of the post-credits sequence. For some reason, when it started rolling I contemplated the little "so where are these new adversaries coming from?" question asked before the credits, and then thought there must now be two Homuras, one who was "created" but still with a form of memories and one who endured from the previous iteration, a calm dark power on some different level than everything else we saw, still kind of annoyed at Madoka's sacrifice but necessary to keep things rolling the way they now are...

...and in thinking back on that, I do sort of hope that doesn't come off as too negative an opinion of Homura. As you said, there were ambiguities, but impressive ones.

(I suppose one thought that came to me was that Madoka had two ribbons to give, although certainly "just one Homura" could have tied them together...)

[DenpaWa]

Episodes 11-12:- Oh and speaking of timelines, they have been implying heavily in this episode that there's many more than five. Episode 10 played the five very straightforward, but it's not like there was anything stopping them from simply saying there were more and therefore making it canon.

I was happy that they implied there were a lot of timelines. The five we saw didn't explain how Homura knew about the Soul Gem/zombie body connection. Or that Kyuubey's other name was Incubator. One of the great things about this series is that nothing comes out of nowhere. It all ties together so well.

Put me down for loving the ending. Yes, the world still has problems. Girls will still sacrifice themselves for the sake of a wish. But one of the new universe's fundamental principles is hope.

[something]

That's a "useful" interpretation of the post-credits sequence. For some reason, when it started rolling I contemplated the little "so where are these new adversaries coming from?" question asked before the credits, and then thought there must now be two Homuras, one who was "created" but still with a form of memories and one who endured from the previous iteration, a calm dark power on some different level than everything else we saw, still kind of annoyed at Madoka's sacrifice but necessary to keep things rolling the way they now are...
Two Homuras? Hmm, not the sense I got from the ending. It seemed to flow too well and be too consistent for there to be a disconnect anywhere in there where a clone would come in. There are certainly unanswered questions: how long has Homura been fighting? Are Kyouko and Mami - and even QB - already dead by that epilogue? Is that a post-apocolyptic world or is she just taking a jaunt in a desert at the moment?

Questions like that are why I can't understand how some people write the ending off as too happy, or a cop-out. It's actually a very dark ending in a way, dark enough to balance the brilliant light and hope and beauty of Megami Madoka. And that's the theme of the show as a whole, isn't it? You never get something for nothing. Magic in the Madoka universe does not create matter or energy or hope from nothingness, so much as it consumes and transmutes those things. QB wasn't bullshitting us about entropy, after all. Even after Megami Madoka's universal rewrite, magic is still incredibly dangerous, and becoming a magical girl is not hitting the jackpot so much as making a noble sacrifice.

In a way, it reminds me of the ending to - and I guess I have to go ahead and fully tag the name, all I'll say is it's a Fall 2003 anime adapted from a manga - Chrono Crusade. Which is, after all, one of my all time favorite endings. Madoka's execution does feel different, in some ways even better, particularly in how it handles the final scene.

[cress2000]

And current rankings for DVDs from various retailers:
Amazon (http://blog-imgs-17.fc2.com/y/a/r/yaraon/1_20110423094645.jpg)

I am THIS CLOSE to joining in the fun. My debt is essentially paid off, so I've got a bit more disposable income every month (but still not enough to become a regular importer), and I'm thinking this is one of those rare A+ shows for me. I also have little faith of it ever being licensed in R1 being what it is.

Since it's coming out in ~$70 installments, fitting this into the budget isn't a big deal. But I'm still on the fence and trying to think if this is sensible either way. So many other potentially useful things could be gotten with that money. I've got a couple more days to think about it, I guess...

[strangefour]

So mama is safe after all.

Which seems odd. It almost seemed foreshadowed from the beginning something bad would happen to mom. Or at least I was fearful of it. But since nothing bad ever happened to her I feel like something should have. *shrug*


People (like strangefour already, poo on you!) are undoubtedly going to complain that it was too easy, but BAH I say. Unless you believe that the only allowable ending is an ultimate despair/kill 'em all ending, this one struck an incredible balance.

Hey! I... I have been waffling on Madoka's ending over and over since seeing it. It felt like it pulled it's punches. It didn't take enough risks. And Madoka is all about taking risks and shocking the audience. Logically messing with the Magical Girl show style.

Madoka's wish was perfectly worded. No vengance against the Incubator's emotionlessness. It was a wish of pure hope. She'd spent so much time thinking before making the wish that she ended up thinking of the consequences. Which turned her into the savior goddess of even her own witch transformation and pardoxed her out of the universe.

There was no human danger in the end. Homura was either going to repeat things again or die ending her timeless struggle. Madoka would of course triumph once she made a wish, only her soul was at risk. All the other magical girls were gone and no one in the storm shelter was ever in any real danger. It just feels a bit hollow.

[something]

and no one in the storm shelter was ever in any real danger. It just feels a bit hollow.
More than anything else, I still don't get your fixation on this point. Of course they were in danger - Walpurgis was systematically leveling the city. Go back and rewatch the first 5-10 minutes or so. The place was in ruins, skyscrapers are being flung around, and it's all pretty dark before Madoka PIERCES THE HEAVENS and brings back the light.

Also, why did the shelter itself need focus? I think it's a good thing that the show focused on Madoka and Homura, rather than shoving a bit of drama in where the shelter is about to collapse. I did not want Madoka's wish to be forced by immediate circumstances, which is why in the end I'm actually glad they didn't have the witch target Madoka's mother.

The shelter... just doesn't matter. Non-contracted humans in general, while not being irrelevant, weren't the main point either. Madoka's wish was not "I want to save everyone" (although certainly she does, she cares about her family greatly) it was "I want to save magical girls".

[Keith Palmer]

Two Homuras? Hmm, not the sense I got from the ending. It seemed to flow too well and be too consistent for there to be a disconnect anywhere in there where a clone would come in. There are certainly unanswered questions: how long has Homura been fighting? Are Kyouko and Mami - and even QB - already dead by that epilogue? Is that a post-apocolyptic world or is she just taking a jaunt in a desert at the moment?

I rewatched the post-credits sequence (a useful enough thing to do), and realised that the first time I'd seen it I'd thought Homura was walking in front of the "new monsters" (leading them), but now I can recognise her as walking towards them. That does, I admit with all cheerfulness and humility, match your impressions that much more. I've also reflected on the definition of "Occam's Razor" that amounts to "do not multiply entities to excess," and as much as I'd thought "it answers one question" and "it's the law of unintended consequences in action," "two Homuras" might be "too much of a good thing"...

[Fencedude]

There was no human danger in the end. Homura was either going to repeat things again or die ending her timeless struggle. Madoka would of course triumph once she made a wish, only her soul was at risk. All the other magical girls were gone and no one in the storm shelter was ever in any real danger. It just feels a bit hollow.

But there was a danger. Two main ones. One was that Homura would have to do it all again, again! And that the system, as it stood, would continue.

Remember, we only saw the final loop. There were countless more beforehand. Side note, these loops could only take place between iterations 2 and 3, 4 and 5 and post-5, since 1 leads directly into 2, and 3 oh so definitely leads directly into 4.

And you forget, that with virtually any other wish, Madoka, once defeating Walpurgisnacht, would turn into Kriemhild Gretchen, dooming the world.

So yeah. I agree with something on this.

Also, this (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/903023/) must be posted here. (danbooru, etc etc)

[TheGreenMan]

I just realized something...

The CAT? Where the hell is the CAT?

[something]

I just realized something...
The CAT? Where the hell is the CAT?
Heh, last night I saw some ascii art on yaraon of the cat wondering just that. :sd: Black cats are red herrings!

[regz91]

I just realized something...

The CAT? Where the hell is the CAT?

There was an interview with Urobuchi somewhere where he mentioned that the cat had been added to the opening by Shaft, and that he himself had no idea what the hell it was.

[TheGreenMan]

I just realized something...

The CAT? Where the hell is the CAT?

There was an interview with Urobuchi somewhere where he mentioned that the cat had been added to the opening by Shaft, and that he himself had no idea what the hell it was.

Heh. Really? I guess they wanted to screw with him.

[DenpaWa]

There was no human danger in the end. Homura was either going to repeat things again or die ending her timeless struggle. Madoka would of course triumph once she made a wish, only her soul was at risk. All the other magical girls were gone and no one in the storm shelter was ever in any real danger. It just feels a bit hollow.

But there was a danger. Two main ones. One was that Homura would have to do it all again, again! And that the system, as it stood, would continue.

(snipped)

And you forget, that with virtually any other wish, Madoka, once defeating Walpurgisnacht, would turn into Kriemhild Gretchen, dooming the world

There was also the danger that Homura would turn into a witch. No more magical girl probably means no more hopping the time loops. So the world as it was, would stay that way forever. Or be destroyed by Walpurgisnacht or Madoka.

[something]

There was also the danger that Homura would turn into a witch. No more magical girl probably means no more hopping the time loops. So the world as it was, would stay that way forever. Or be destroyed by Walpurgisnacht or Madoka.
Oh yeah, that was a very important point. In a sense, there was far more danger and risk this time, because Homura was prepared to give up and that means no more chances. And probably a much tougher battle for Madoka, plus the likelihood that she'd lose her mind if confronted with such a loss.

[Suwako Moriya]

But there was a danger. Two main ones. One was that Homura would have to do it all again, again! And that the system, as it stood, would continue.

That and there's the need to keep one thing in mind. Just because a dangerous situation has been resolved does not by itself mean the situation wasn't dangerous.

Also, this (http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/903023/) must be posted here. (danbooru, etc etc)

I approve of this. Almost tempted to have that tune play in the background while looking at it.

[William K]

All the other magical girls were gone and no one in the storm shelter was ever in any real danger. It just feels a bit hollow.

Considering that there are still thousands of people who are homeless and in shelters after the quake/tsunami, showing a shelter being threatened by destruction may not have been the most appropriate thing to do

[strangefour]

All the other magical girls were gone and no one in the storm shelter was ever in any real danger. It just feels a bit hollow.

Considering that there are still thousands of people who are homeless and in shelters after the quake/tsunami, showing a shelter being threatened by destruction may not have been the most appropriate thing to do

I know. :\ But after Homuhomu's adventures through the apocalypse episode, I expected at least ye olde puddle of blood coming from under some rubble shots. Something more than empty floating buildings and Homuhomu's series exploding of traps.

[Fencedude]

I know. :\ But after Homuhomu's adventures through the apocalypse episode, I expected at least ye olde puddle of blood coming from under some rubble shots. Something more than empty floating buildings and Homuhomu's series exploding of traps.

What would that have added to the proceedings?

Besides, Homura wasn't fighting for the people of Mitakihara. She was fighting for Madoka, and Madoka alone.

[strangefour]

I know. :\ But after Homuhomu's adventures through the apocalypse episode, I expected at least ye olde puddle of blood coming from under some rubble shots. Something more than empty floating buildings and Homuhomu's series exploding of traps.

What would that have added to the proceedings?

Besides, Homura wasn't fighting for the people of Mitakihara. She was fighting for Madoka, and Madoka alone.

But Madoka was fighting for life, the universe and everything. I guess it wouldn't have added much. But without thousands of exploding Kyubey heads, I feel it needed something else for me.

[Fencedude]

But Madoka was fighting for life, the universe and everything. I guess it wouldn't have added much. But without thousands of exploding Kyubey heads, I feel it needed something else for me.

Madoka was fighting for Homura, and, by extension, every other Magical Girl who ever lived, or ever would live.

Saving Mitakihara was something of a side effect, simply stopping Walpurgisnacht was simple, and was taken care of by the paradox Madoka created, thus obviating the issue, no matter what amount of destruction Walpurgisnacht caused.

[SnowfairyX]

There was also the danger that Homura would turn into a witch. No more magical girl probably means no more hopping the time loops. So the world as it was, would stay that way forever. Or be destroyed by Walpurgisnacht or Madoka.
Oh yeah, that was a very important point. In a sense, there was far more danger and risk this time, because Homura was prepared to give up and that means no more chances. And probably a much tougher battle for Madoka, plus the likelihood that she'd lose her mind if confronted with such a loss.
If Homura had failed and became a witch, wouldn't Madoka's wish fix that anyway? There would be no additional effort involved to make that wish whether Homura turned into a witch or not. Also, I'm wondering what would happen if Madoka decided to make the same wish that Homura made. So instead of Homura re-doing her meeting with Madoka and attempting to save her, it'll be the other way around with Madoka getting the time powers instead and going through her own time loop. I don't think it would be a solution but it would give extra chances to come up with a good one.

I'm also not sure why the show neglected to mention the other wishes that Madoka made in previous time loops but I have to wonder what specific events occurred in this one to cause her to come up with that specific wish which would supposedly solve all the problems that the wishes that she made in other time loops did not.

[Fencedude]

I'm also not sure why the show neglected to mention the other wishes that Madoka made in previous time loops but I have to wonder what specific events occurred in this one to cause her to come up with that specific wish which would supposedly solve all the problems that the wishes that she made in other time loops did not.

Madoka's previous wishes were irrelevant. Knowing them would be nice, but not necessary.

The reason that she made this wish, this time, was that this was the first timeline where she knew the entire truth. The origin of witches, the Incubator's plans, and, most importantly, Homura's time looping.

Without all of that information, she could not make the wish that she made.

As for Homura becoming a witch, yes, Madoka' would have prevented that with her wish, but only by "killing" Homura. So by making the wish before Homura becomes a witch, Homura lives on.

[Shiroi Hane]

They left her body in a hotel, which is better than on train tracks at any rate.
I assumed she was still on that bed where Kyouko was keeping her.

[SnowfairyX]

I'm also not sure why the show neglected to mention the other wishes that Madoka made in previous time loops but I have to wonder what specific events occurred in this one to cause her to come up with that specific wish which would supposedly solve all the problems that the wishes that she made in other time loops did not.

Madoka's previous wishes were irrelevant. Knowing them would be nice, but not necessary.

The reason that she made this wish, this time, was that this was the first time line where she knew the entire truth. The origin of witches, the Incubator's plans, and, most importantly, Homura's time looping.
In the other time lines, Homura could have easily proven that she could go back in time by pointing out to future events that haven't occurred yet that will occur. And I've brought this up before, but now since it seems that it's been proven beyond a doubt that Kyuubey doesn't lie or withholds the truth when asked, why not have Homura ask him to tell all the other girls the entire truth, and perhaps before one of them gets her head bitten off?

It doesn't seem like Homura learned anything new in this particular time line that she could have used to attempt to figure out a solution in earlier ones. Basically, any possible solution she wanted to attempt in this time line could have been done in earlier ones. She probably even made some things even worse. It just seems like in this time line, certain things simply happened by chance rather than from much of anything learned from the past and present. Such as, why did Kyuubey conveniently tell Madoka about the past magical girls without even being asked about it? I'm probably just over-thinking things.

[Sly05]

And I've brought this up before, but now since it seems that it's been proven beyond a doubt that Kyuubey doesn't lie or withholds the truth when asked, why not have Homura ask him to tell all the other girls the entire truth, and perhaps before one of them gets her head bitten off?

When they found out in episode 10, Mami snapped and skilled everyone which wouldn't make Homura particularly keen to let her know she's doomed again. While it would perhaps be possible to stop Sayaka from contracting (though as we saw in the final episode, she doesn't regret it in the end), there isn't really any way for Homura to save Kyouko and Mami as they are already mahou shoujo.

Homura's plan for the current timeline was to prevent Kyubey from meeting Madoka in the first place by killing him, but that plan failed so she had to roll with it.

[bear]

[And I've brought this up before, but now since it seems that it's been proven beyond a doubt that Kyuubey doesn't lie or withholds the truth when asked...
The truths that he tells are only that within the letter of the law and not the spirit. Remember how he called Homura's creation "irregular" instead of explaining that she's a time traveler? He tells you things without lying but either leaving out important information or phrasing it in a way that it will not be interpreted correctly. He did that consistently even when directly asked he withheld information.

[SnowfairyX]

[And I've brought this up before, but now since it seems that it's been proven beyond a doubt that Kyuubey doesn't lie or withholds the truth when asked...
The truths that he tells are only that within the letter of the law and not the spirit. Remember how he called Homura's creation "irregular" instead of explaining that she's a time traveler? He tells you things without lying but either leaving out important information or phrasing it in a way that it will not be interpreted correctly. He did that consistently even when directly asked he withheld information.
If he's interrogated long enough, I don't see how it's possible for him to be able to keep from revealing important information. And if he's asked to confirm something and is instructed to answer with either a 'yes' or a 'no,' how is he going to give a half-truth or partial answer to that?

[something]

It doesn't seem like Homura learned anything new in this particular time line that she could have used to attempt to figure out a solution in earlier ones. Basically, any possible solution she wanted to attempt in this time line could have been done in earlier ones.
This has far less to do with Homura than with Madoka. Remember, Madoka got more powerful every iteration. There's no guarantee she was strong enough to do this before now. And it's not even like Homura's plans were what won the day... she failed again this time, miserably, but her success was in managing to get through to Madoka and give her enough information to act on. Madoka herself had to make the decision, though, and indeed the only way to succeed was to do the one thing Homura least wanted her to do.

It just seems like in this time line, certain things simply happened by chance rather than from much of anything learned from the past and present.
Well, of course chance was a factor. We don't know exactly how many times Homura looped but it was clearly a lot, and chance - or luck, to put it another way - was certainly part of it. But you have to create the conditions. As badly as Homura handled some aspects of this loop, the conditions were finally in place for Madoka to make the choice she did.

Such as, why did Kyuubey conveniently tell Madoka about the past magical girls without even being asked about it?
In his hyper-rational mind, it probably sounded like a very reasonable argument in favor of contracting. No, Madoka didn't directly ask him about it but it was very much relevant to their discussion. She already hated and distrusted him by that point so he really had nothing to lose. Besides, he probably figured he had all these girls under his control. Just look at the conversation he had with Homura after Kyouko died. If his species were capable of it, he totally would have whipped out a "keikaku doori" trollface when talking about how convenient Kyouko's death was for dooming Homura's plans and pressuring Madoka to contract.

[Buckeye]

I'm back after enduring a Walpurgis-like night in St. Louis that was heavy rains, thunderstorms, and tornadoes that caused massive damage to the airport, and I just watched these last two episodes. All I can say is this. Wow! I'm quite at a loss of words at what just happened. We have Madoka's weapon, which is a witch-homing bow and arrows. And it seems like Homura and Madoka ended up merging to become one now that Homu is using the witch-seeking arrows.

[something]

And it seems like Homura and Madoka ended up merging to become one now that Homu is using the witch-seeking arrows.
Not sure where you got that idea... I'm sure Homura is just using the bow in honor of Madoka. And because it's cool.

Madoka, meanwhile, is off fighting witches for all eternity.

[SnowfairyX]

It doesn't seem like Homura learned anything new in this particular time line that she could have used to attempt to figure out a solution in earlier ones. Basically, any possible solution she wanted to attempt in this time line could have been done in earlier ones.
This has far less to do with Homura than with Madoka. Remember, Madoka got more powerful every iteration. There's no guarantee she was strong enough to do this before now.
Speaking of which, another thing that I would have liked the show to address is what if the person that Kyuubey is attempting to contract with actually made a wish that was greater than his power to grant, since I believe he implied earlier that not all wishes were within his power to grant. I would assume that it would just fizzle out and the contract becomes void. But the show doesn't explain or give an example of what exactly would happen if that scenario came up. I'm curious what would have happened if Madoka had attempted to make the same wish in an earlier iteration when she was supposedly less powerful. And regarding this time loop, could she have even been able to make an even more powerful wish than to just simply erase all witches. Why not push the limits and try making a wish to become God just to see what happens?

Such as, why did Kyuubey conveniently tell Madoka about the past magical girls without even being asked about it?
If his species were capable of it, he totally would have whipped out a "keikaku doori" trollface when talking about how convenient Kyouko's death was for dooming Homura's plans and pressuring Madoka to contract.
I kept waiting and hoping for him to make that expression throughout the series but he never even made one little smirk. I guess that's what fan art is for.

[something]

Speaking of which, another thing that I would have liked the show to address is what if the person that Kyuubey is attempting to contract with actually made a wish that was greater than his power to grant, since I believe he implied earlier that not all wishes were within his power to grant.
This came up a bit earleir, and I think the consensus is just that Kyubey has the ability to, at most, enable wishes, not grant them himself. That is, the power of the wish is really the power of the girl, not the Kyubeys' power. So Madoka could enact a wish even without Kyubey's consent.

[Isuzu Inugami]

Right of Kyouko has to be Walpurgis, the hair is very distinctive.

I forget if the show ever actually established Walpurgisnacht's former identity? I have a pet theory that Walpurgisnacht is actually Homura's witch, jumped back in time (naturally--but not by long given Homura falling into despair at the end of 11) through all of Homura's histories and, like herself and Madoka, vastly stronger than the usual thanks to those reiterations. For all of Homura's amazing assault (I so love the shoot a rocket, freeze time, shoot another, and release the full barrage part!) it doesn't seem to have much effect, so perhaps Walpurgis has similar time manipulative abilites to defend itself with... and there's that enormous gear in it's design, reminiscent of Homura's watchworks.

[EmperorBrandon]

it doesn't seem to have much effect, so perhaps Walpurgis has similar time manipulative abilites to defend itself with... and there's that enormous gear in it's design, reminiscent of Homura's watchworks.

If she isn't, then I still wonder a little what Homura's, Mami's, and Kyouko's witch forms would be like. Homura was the only one out of them we really see coming close to becoming a witch, twice.

[something]

Right of Kyouko has to be Walpurgis, the hair is very distinctive.I forget if the show ever actually established Walpurgisnacht's former identity?
Nope, we don't know for certain what any of the witches looked like as humans, other than Madoka and Sayaka of course.

As for Walpurgis being Homura's, I guess it's possible. But the show was quite good about wrapping up major plot points such as that, so it seems unlikely they'd have something so massive be left completely unaddressed.

It would also create a bit of an annoying time paradox situation where we'd have to answer how Homura's witch was present to kill Madoka before Homura ever made the wish to become a magical girl. I really dislike when time travels stories pull that out, because they "best" explanation they ever give is "You can't change the future!" as if that somehow explains it at all. Which it totally does not.

[Sly05]

I forget if the show ever actually established Walpurgisnacht's former identity?

I took Walpurgisnacht to be the green haired girl who Madoka first visits. She is surrounded by similar banners to what her elephant familiars are carrying when the witch first arrives in episode 11. Why she is so exceedingly more powerful than other witches (besides Gretchen), I don't know.

[DenpaWa]

I forget if the show ever actually established Walpurgisnacht's former identity?

I took Walpurgisnacht to be the green haired girl who Madoka first visits. She is surrounded by similar banners to what her elephant familiars are carrying when the witch first arrives in episode 11. Why she is so exceedingly more powerful than other witches (besides Gretchen), I don't know.

It would make sense for Walpugisnacht to be the first witch, since that would give her time to build up her strength. She might be so strong because of thousands of years of casting curses.

Though I now wonder who the first magical girl fought? The demons who never got a chance to be a major menace because the witches stomped them as unwanted competition?

[DenpaWa]

(I so love the shoot a rocket, freeze time, shoot another, and release the full barrage part!)

Oh Yeah! That attack, riding the tanker truck, the explosive trap where Walpurgisnacht landed, the list just goes on. Truly an epic battle. Homura really made use of all the times she fought in other loops since she choreographed this one so well. She really did deserve to win. :cry:

[Isuzu Inugami]

As for Walpurgis being Homura's, I guess it's possible. But the show was quite good about wrapping up major plot points such as that, so it seems unlikely they'd have something so massive be left completely unaddressed.


See, for me the unaddressed thing that bugs me is why Walpurgisnacht is so much more powerful than any other witch; and why unlike all the other randomly appearing witches, it seems to be on a schedule.

Actually, I'm not sure my theory addresses that last point either.... :sweat: Homura knowing it's on the way after her first go-'round is natural, but I think Kyouko knew about it too, without being told.


It would also create a bit of an annoying time paradox situation where we'd have to answer how Homura's witch was present to kill Madoka before Homura ever made the wish to become a magical girl. I really dislike when time travels stories pull that out, because they "best" explanation they ever give is "You can't change the future!" as if that somehow explains it at all. Which it totally does not.

Not "you can't", just "you didn't (but give it another try.)" It doesn't bother me overly because I think of all these temporal iterations as overlapping, with some bleed-through (witness Madoka's dream about the end of the previous cycle... except if it's bleed-through it shouldn't happen until the Walpurgis-fight... arrrggh, time is wacky! Okay, okay, EVERYTHING HAPPENS AT ONCE (no, really! Quark, back me up on this!))

Actually, I'm not even sure how Homu-Walpu manifests, if Madoka prevents Homura from falling into despair. We never even get to a history where it happens, so it's not a case of Madoka siphoning off the curse (or is that exactly what she did when she showed up and Homura's soul gem went back to normal? She was already active as Megami-Madoka... but she hasn't refashioned the universe yet....)

Ahh, you're right, it's still a mess. Let me jump subjects to mention the scene in 11 where Homura breaks down and confesses to Madoka about what she's been doing, and how with each iteration she seems to end up further and further from Madoka herself just about ripped my heart out. :cry: God this show was amazing! And Madoka's mom... best mom in anime! I got to dreading her appearance through the second half of the series for fear something awful would happen to her. And in a way, it did, as she bravely let her daughter go, not merely into the possibility of death, but into nonexistence itself--apart from that vague sense of nostalgia, and her son's "imaginary" friend.

[Sly05]

Though I now wonder who the first magical girl fought? The demons who never got a chance to be a major menace because the witches stomped them as unwanted competition?

I also wonder about the magical girl ecology. Since you need one magical girl to get a witch, the population of witches would quickly run out if the average magical girl defeated more than one witch during her lifespan. Though new witches would be created from the surviving magical girls even if all the witches were wiped out as they would run out of a source of grief seeds, there was clearly more witches than magical girls in the series. This makes it seem likely that most new magical girls turn into witches or die before defeating more than one witch. I wonder if our group of heroines was unusually successful?

I would also have liked to see what kind of witch girls like Jean D'Arc and Cleopatra spawned if they weren't murdered before they turned. Given the impact they had on history, the world may have narrowly dodged the birth of more Walpurgisnacht level witches.

[something]

I also wonder about the magical girl ecology. Since you need one magical girl to get a witch, the population of witches would quickly run out if the average magical girl defeated more than one witch during her lifespan.
Here, have fun (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Population_dynamics). :sd: All sorts of different mathematical simulations of the population dynamics of a world with anti-entropy magical girls. Unfortunately we lack good information to put in the variables, which can change the situation dramatically.

It does seem like, perhaps, the first magical girl got a really shitty deal. I'm imagining Kyubey contracting with some poor girl, who has no witches to fight, thus no way to restore her Soul Gem, thus a slow, irreversible decline into witch-hood. Hope the wish was worth it.

Which would then leave a powerful witch on the loose with no magical girls around to kill it. Therefore Kyubey contracts with another to to beat that witch. At this point 1) the girl is successful, but becomes a witch after her single grief seed is exhausted, after which Kyubey finds another girl, 2) the girl neither kills the witch nor dies, and so becomes a second witch, so Kyubey finds another girl, or 2) the girl falls to the witch, and Kyubey... just finds another girl.

I had been pondering if it would be a chicken or egg situation, but it's really not. Kyubey just needs to contract enough magical girls until some sort of self-sustaining (well, with a bit of scouting should magical girl numbers get low) critical mass is hit, where both the number of witches and magical girls is "high enough" to not need extreme micromanagement.

[bear]

I also wonder about the magical girl ecology. Since you need one magical girl to get a witch, the population of witches would quickly run out if the average magical girl defeated more than one witch during her lifespan.


I don't remember which episode but it's stated but witches spawn familiars which can themselves become witches so that keeps the witch population up.

[MitchH]

I also wonder about the magical girl ecology. Since you need one magical girl to get a witch, the population of witches would quickly run out if the average magical girl defeated more than one witch during her lifespan.
Here, have fun (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Population_dynamics). :sd: All sorts of different mathematical simulations of the population dynamics of a world with anti-entropy magical girls. Unfortunately we lack good information to put in the variables, which can change the situation dramatically.

It does seem like, perhaps, the first magical girl got a really shitty deal. I'm imagining Kyubey contracting with some poor girl, who has no witches to fight, thus no way to restore her Soul Gem, thus a slow, irreversible decline into witch-hood. Hope the wish was worth it.

Which would then leave a powerful witch on the loose with no magical girls around to kill it. Therefore Kyubey contracts with another to to beat that witch. At this point 1) the girl is successful, but becomes a witch after her single grief seed is exhausted, after which Kyubey finds another girl, 2) the girl neither kills the witch nor dies, and so becomes a second witch, so Kyubey finds another girl, or 2) the girl falls to the witch, and Kyubey... just finds another girl.

I had been pondering if it would be a chicken or egg situation, but it's really not. Kyubey just needs to contract enough magical girls until some sort of self-sustaining (well, with a bit of scouting should magical girl numbers get low) critical mass is hit, where both the number of witches and magical girls is "high enough" to not need extreme micromanagement.

I don't think we were shown or told anything which negated Kyouko's claim that familiars graduate to witchiness once they've destroyed-a-person-via-despair. And likewise, I don't see why witches can't form in this universe-construct in the total absence of contracts and magical girls. A girl with magical potential just spontaneously becomes a witch due to a failed san check, and poof, we're off to the races. After all, the Kyubeys are parasitical upon the magical girl-witch dynamic, they say so themselves. The soul gems are just a way to harness the potential & bring it out in a fashion which the Kyubeys find beneficial.

They're witch-farming, not witch-manufacturing.

[Sly05]

Here, have fun (http://wiki.puella-magi.net/Population_dynamics). :sd:
Thanks for the link. I hadn't seen that section on the wiki. Fandom sure can generate some fun things given people with enough time. I appreciate the Sayaka versus Charlotte figures. :)

I had forgotten that familiars also can become witches, but that also requires that the witch survives long enough for her familiar to kill enough people. Since Kyubey controls the number of new magical girls created, he also has the option of creating less magical girls if the population of witches starts to dwindle.


It does seem like, perhaps, the first magical girl got a really shitty deal. I'm imagining Kyubey contracting with some poor girl, who has no witches to fight, thus no way to restore her Soul Gem, thus a slow, irreversible decline into witch-hood. Hope the wish was worth it.
I imagine she would have turned without ever realizing the truth. That's probably less crushing than knowing you are doomed to turn into a monster.

[something]

I don't think we were shown or told anything which negated Kyouko's claim that familiars graduate to witchiness once they've destroyed-a-person-via-despair.
I didn't disagree with that, but didn't think it critical to the discussion of beginnings.

And likewise, I don't see why witches can't form in this universe-construct in the total absence of contracts and magical girls.
Nothing says they can't, I just don't remember it being explicitly answered either way and so left it out. Since the Kyubeys have been interfering with humanity since before the advent of civilization, it's hard to say really. How far along the evolutionary path does homo sapiens need to be to manifest magical powers? (Maybe I just have a problem imagining Mahou Neanderthal Ugga Magica.) (Yes, that's thinking too hard about it.)

Either way, no Kyubeys probably means no magical girls. At least not in the sense we know them. And whether they would have arisen in the absence of Kyubeys or not, we'll never know, because the Kyubeys were around from basically the start. So whether we call it manufacturing or farming, it's a dynamic that has been fundamentally manipulated and cultivated by the Kyubeys.

[something]

I imagine she would have turned without ever realizing the truth. That's probably less crushing than knowing you are doomed to turn into a monster.
I'm sure Kyubey would have been more than willing to divulge the truth at the most horribly inopportune time... >_>

[Fencedude]

Alright, I don't have the full details, but here's some important points. And it involves that goddamn cat.

In the first timeline, Madoka used her wish to save a cat, who was dying after being hit by a car. She never told Mami what her wish was, because she felt that Mami would scold her for using her wish for such a thing.

The cat's name is Amy.

Amy led Homura to where Madoka was, right before Madoka went to fight Walpurgisnacht.

So there. Thats where the damn cat comes from.

[EmperorBrandon]

In the first timeline, Madoka used her wish to save a cat, who was dying after being hit by a car. She never told Mami what her wish was, because she felt that Mami would scold her for using her wish for such a thing.

The cat's name is Amy.

Amy led Homura to where Madoka was, right before Madoka went to fight Walpurgisnacht.

Ah that's pretty interesting and seems rather fitting for Madoka. Also, neat that they gave the cat a backstory rather than just being there... Does the drama CD come from Vol. 1? That would seem to spoil people who are watching for the first time, if it brings up a different timeline.

[Fencedude]

Ah that's pretty interesting and seems rather fitting for Madoka. Also, neat that they gave the cat a backstory rather than just being there... Does the drama CD come from Vol. 1? That would seem to spoil people who are watching for the first time, if it brings up a different timeline.

Japanese disc releases by and large assume you've already seen the show.

[EmperorBrandon]

Japanese disc releases by and large assume you've already seen the show.

Well, that's what I figured, particularly with an otaku-aimed series like this.

[EmperorBrandon]

Looks like the witch cards on the main site have been updated, and it kind of confirmed one thing I was thinking about Walpurgisnacht, which is that it's an alias and not her "real" witch name. It's interesting that they won't say what it is either, though. It's just "?????" :bigsmile:

[something]

http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-1680.html
Symmetrical docking scene gets a bit of a breast reduction. On the upside, Madoka no longer has a hole in her abdomen and you see a but more under the skirt.

No comparisons from inside the episodes yet, unfortunately. But they did somewhat significant work on the OP. Although we know they were tweaking the op throughout until they finalized it pretty far in, so I don't know how different this is from the latest version of the TV airing OP.

I can only hope they did a whole lot of work on the early episodes themselves...

[Fencedude]

No comparisons from inside the episodes yet, unfortunately.

Oh, I have some, actually.

[1] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV1.jpg), [2] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV2.jpg), [3] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV3.jpg), [4] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV4.jpg), [5] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV5.jpg)

Most notable change is Mami's apartment, which is like, ZOMG.

[Buckeye]

No comparisons from inside the episodes yet, unfortunately.

Oh, I have some, actually.

[1] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV1.jpg), [2] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV2.jpg), [3] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV3.jpg), [4] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV4.jpg), [5] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV5.jpg)

Most notable change is Mami's apartment, which is like, ZOMG.
Those are quite some huge differences there. I am so getting the BD when this title is licensed and released in America. An R1 release on BD is inevitable, I think.

[strangefour]

[1] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV1.jpg), [2] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV2.jpg), [3] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV3.jpg), [4] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV4.jpg), [5] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV5.jpg)

Most notable change is Mami's apartment, which is like, ZOMG.

What the hell? So Mami's apartment is less sad and lonely. That feels wrong. Mami being so open and friendly but having a spartan apartment one one ever sees fits the character better.

[hissatsu]

No comparisons from inside the episodes yet, unfortunately.

Oh, I have some, actually.

[1] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV1.jpg), [2] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV2.jpg), [3] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV3.jpg), [4] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV4.jpg), [5] (http://fencedude.com/Madoka/MadokaBDTV5.jpg)


I think that 3rd jpeg is corrupted, tried it on Chrome and IE, same thing, only goes to the middle of the first screenshots.

[Fencedude]

I think that 3rd jpeg is corrupted, tried it on Chrome and IE, same thing, only goes to the middle of the first screenshots.

Try it now.