Cardfight!! Vanguard Discussion Thread

[einhorn303]

Based on the new collectible card game published by Bushiroad.

Crunchyroll page (http://www.crunchyroll.com/cardfight-vanguard)
ANN Encyclopedia Entry (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=11763)
Official site (TV anime) (http://www.tv-aichi.co.jp/cf-vanguard/)
Official site (game) (http://cf-vanguard.com/)

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[einhorn303]

Decided I might as well try the show, since I do love CCGs. I found it rather fun, and interesting in how it approaches the role of Vanguard in the setting.

- Cards look a lot like Weib Schwarz.
- Kai is right. People who lose at card games and blame it on their luck. Pshaww.
- "Aren't there any strong players around here?" Has the internet not been invented in this world?
- It's interesting how this world is like Pokemon, but with card games: they're completely integrated into people's daily lives and culture. Teaching Japanese history with CCGs is a pretty hillarious example.
- Put that Blaster Blade in a sleeve, for chrissake!
- Did people ever open actual booster packs in Yu-Gi-Oh? I like how they're more blatant about the nature of CCGs here, like with the explanation that "card games come and go, but the one most popular right now is Vanguard."
- The protagonist is so uke.
- Gotta randomly say "Ride the Vanguard!" while playing.
- If I had one critique of the show's battles so far, it's that they don't show a pan out of the full field enough so it can be hard to keep track of the game state.
- This game seems pretty fast paced and aggressive, if it only takes 6 successful monster attacks to defeat a player. It's also good that they figured out a way to have the huge Attack numbers the kids love, while not requiring a calculator or spreadsheet to track life totals.
- Aw, darn cliffhanger.
- ED begins with a cute loli walking. Ok, good, this is anime...I was getting a bit confused there.

[Quarkboy]

Note: There's a theme to some of the card names.

Anyone notice? You'll probably notice by episode 2.

I hope they don't get sued :)

[einhorn303]

Note: There's a theme to some of the card names.

Anyone notice? You'll probably notice by episode 2.

I hope they don't get sued :)

I haven't noticed anything yet, but for the benefit of anyone else who might, the cards from episode 1 are:

Blaster Blade
Lizard Runner Undeux
Stardust Trumpeter
Embodiment of Armor, Bahr
Hope of Flame, Aermo
Little Sage, Marron
Wingal
Dragon Knight Nehalem
Bringer of Good Luck, Epona
Knight of Silence, Gallatin
Flogal
Wyvern Strike Tejas
Jarran
Embodiment of the Spear, Tahr

[Quarkboy]

Gallatin
Tejas
Nehalem

Perhaps only a serious geek would know...

[einhorn303]

Gallatin
Tejas
Nehalem

Perhaps only a serious geek would know...

Discovered via Googling :sd:

Yeah, that's pretty obscure. I don't imagine the average kid watching this show would get it, much less the average adult.

[tadakichi]

Gallatin
Tejas
Nehalem

Perhaps only a serious geek would know...

Heh, I kind of did a double take at "Nehalem" but figured it was just a coincidence.

As for the actual show, it was watchable enough for a kids' anime, and the JAM Project OP was pretty cool. Not sure I want to stick with it, though.

[KLevin26]

As for the anime's premise. Most viewers seem to get the misconception that it's like Yu-Gi-Oh! or those other TCG animes. But if they get the time to actually watch it. They're sorely mistaken.

IMO there seems to be no trap or magic-related card involved to enhance the situation of the player or opponents. Rather it seems to be flat out Street Fighter, which the player shouts their attack.

[FUNiOP]

I am fascinated to find that even here, this show is being enjoyed by some. Not that there's anything wrong with that. If it's going to be here every week, it might as well be enjoyed by some people who like it.

So what's the card name theme? Intel? That's easily more interesting than the actual episode to me.

[einhorn303]

- So it seems one's damage is used as a resource to pay card costs. A good "catch up" mechanic. As opposed to Pokemon, which has the exact opposite of catch up with it's Prize cards. Playing games of it with a borrowed deck, I found it works best with opposite Prize cards (winning by making your opponent draw 6).
- I guess yaoi tropes aren't too different moe tropes, because Kai is totally tsundere.
- Somehow I knew there had to be some damage trigger to let Aichi win.
- Yeah, there are gonna be a lot of insanely lucky Drive Trigger topdecks in this show.
- Did Kai actually shed tears? This show presents an incredibly emotional side of playing card games.
- The posters in the store are other Bushiroad card games.
- I can't wait until Misaki gets involved in the story. Hopefully she'll be Aichi's Vanguard mentor.

[LKK]

- I guess yaoi tropes aren't too different moe tropes, because Kai is totally tsundere.
The tsundere is a staple in BL. Maybe even more so than in mainstream anime/manga.

- I can't wait until Misaki gets involved in the story. Hopefully she'll be Aichi's Vanguard mentor.
Is Misaki the store manager?

[einhorn303]

- I can't wait until Misaki gets involved in the story. Hopefully she'll be Aichi's Vanguard mentor.
Is Misaki the store manager?

I think she just works there. It looks like the guy from the next episode preview is the manager/owner.

[Quarkboy]

- I guess yaoi tropes aren't too different moe tropes, because Kai is totally tsundere.
The tsundere is a staple in BL. Maybe even more so than in mainstream anime/manga.

- I can't wait until Misaki gets involved in the story. Hopefully she'll be Aichi's Vanguard mentor.
Is Misaki the store manager?

The cat is the store manager :)

[LKK]

- I guess yaoi tropes aren't too different moe tropes, because Kai is totally tsundere.
The tsundere is a staple in BL. Maybe even more so than in mainstream anime/manga.

- I can't wait until Misaki gets involved in the story. Hopefully she'll be Aichi's Vanguard mentor.
Is Misaki the store manager?

The cat is the store manager :)
It's a cat. The fact that it manages the establishment goes without saying. :D

[einhorn303]

- His little sister can't be this cute.
- How to deal with school bullies, the "Cardfight!! Vanguard" way: Impess them with your card game skills.
- "Let me have a goo, too!" "Sure! Right after I let him have it good..." The homosexual innuendo makes me wonder what kind of "bad people" Emi's thinking of.
- Translating "mou..." as "For pete's sake...": I actually kind of like that. Good job, localization.
- The shop manager is a lolicon, ww.
- Wow, Morikawa's deck really is stupid. It's the classical "Timmy" archetype.
- Even though there's a heavy element of chance in CCG's, the statistics of chance are determined by players. One can be lucky in a single match, but not in aggregate games. Reminds me of how people say in Mahjong that true experts could only compare their skill level by playing thousands of games against each other. I guess that's the rationale for the finals matches of professional MtG tournaments being 3-of-5 instead of 2-of-3.
- "Noob." That's another very distinct localization.
- I love how the theme is blatantly "This product (card game) will make you have a better life and become a better person."
- Perfect Victory. His Vanguard just got Ridden.
- Now Emi needs to start playing Vanguard and put cards in her deck just because she thinks they're cute.

Next Episode: Aichi vs Misaki. Yes! Also, nuns with machine guns.

Random animation error at 11:13-11:16: A section of a card's image layer is set to transparent when it shouldn't be.

[Quarkboy]

- His little sister can't be this cute.
- How to deal with school bullies, the "Cardfight!! Vanguard" way: Impess them with your card game skills.
- "Let me have a goo, too!" "Sure! Right after I let him have it good..." The homosexual innuendo makes me wonder what kind of "bad people" Emi's thinking of.
- Translating "mou..." as "For pete's sake...": I actually kind of like that. Good job, localization.
- The shop manager is a lolicon, ww.
- Wow, Morikawa's deck really is stupid. It's the classical "Timmy" archetype.
- Even though there's a heavy element of chance in CCG's, the statistics of chance are determined by players. One can be lucky in a single match, but not in aggregate games. Reminds me of how people say in Mahjong that true experts could only compare their skill level by playing thousands of games against each other. I guess that's the rationale for the finals matches of professional MtG tournaments being 3-of-5 instead of 2-of-3.
- "Noob." That's another very distinct localization.
- I love how the theme is blatantly "This product (card game) will make you have a better life and become a better person."
- Perfect Victory. His Vanguard just got Ridden.
- Now Emi needs to start playing Vanguard and put cards in her deck just because she thinks they're cute.

Next Episode: Aichi vs Misaki. Yes! Also, nuns with machine guns.

Random animation error at 11:13-11:16: A section of a card's image layer is set to transparent when it shouldn't be.

For pete's sake as a translation of "mou" is one of about 3-4 options I use (it comes up a LOT).

As for "noob", I actually had a bit of a fight with my editor over whether it was spelled "noob" or "newb".
Google had to settle the argument, and "noob" won out.

[Chris Beveridge]

- I love how the theme is blatantly "This product (card game) will make you have a better life and become a better person."


This cracks me up too. But I have to say, I have had friends over the years that have gone through similar experiences so it's not entirely far off. Sometimes it's not the obvious things that can drag someone out of their shell. The show is pure product promotion, nobody doubts that, but some of the themes are true.

[einhorn303]

- I love how the theme is blatantly "This product (card game) will make you have a better life and become a better person."


This cracks me up too. But I have to say, I have had friends over the years that have gone through similar experiences so it's not entirely far off. Sometimes it's not the obvious things that can drag someone out of their shell. The show is pure product promotion, nobody doubts that, but some of the themes are true.

I don't mean it in a mocking way...I agree! I gained more friendship from my college's Boardgame Club then anything else in those years. There's a big difference with tabletop games vs. video games: You actually have to interact with other people face-to-face if you want to play.

I think commercials aren't given enough credit these days. They can have plenty of artistic integrity. Many of history's Great Works are basically commercials, like the Sistine Chapel ceiling, Medici Chapels, and Triumph of the Will.

[Suwako Moriya]

ED begins with a cute loli walking.

Officially the best part of the episode.:P Also, there were times I had to ask myself. Just how many actions can they take in one turn anyway? This has always been an issue with shows like this.

During my turn, I will summon a dragon. I will summon a bunny rabbit. I will summon all the smurfs at once. I will activate "Attack Up on all of them". All of them will attack your party at once. Now they're going to eat some cake.:P

[Suwako Moriya]

Sheesh, that Dragonic Overlord is *****ing over powered. I was starting to think "Why not just say, it allows you to win instantly and save time?"

They're two seconds way from a confession and proposal scene.:sweat:

The thing with shows like this is simple, I might be fine for an episode or two. However past that I often come to the conclusion that I don't need to watch dozens apon dozens of episodes. I can already sense a long term series with the potential to be endless.

[einhorn303]

I just realized there's an English wiki for Vanguard cards: http://cf-vanguard.wikidot.com

Which also has a rules translation: http://cf-vanguard.wikidot.com/rules-faqs

Useful!

Also, there were times I had to ask myself. Just how many actions can they take in one turn anyway? This has always been an issue with shows like this.

During my turn, I will summon a dragon. I will summon a bunny rabbit. I will summon all the smurfs at once. I will activate "Attack Up on all of them". All of them will attack your party at once. Now they're going to eat some cake.:P

The rules there say:

You can Call as many times as you want in 1 turn.

So I suppose you'd only hold units back because:
- Their level is too high to play yet
- You want to save them to defend with
- They'll just be killed instantly

And you can attack with all your units each turn, as long as they're untapped ("Standing").

Sheesh, that Dragonic Overlord is *****ing over powered. I was starting to think "Why not just say, it allows you to win instantly and save time?"

They're two seconds way from a confession and proposal scene.:sweat:


It only stands when it successfully defeats a rear guard. So the whole chain can be broken by successfully defending once. That's why Kai smirked while saying "Used up your entire hand to defend, huh?" before activating Dragonic Overlord, since Aichi put himself into a position where his entire rear guard could be swept.

Plus it seems it costs 3 to activate that ability (I'm assuming that's what the [③] symbol here (http://cf-vanguard.wikidot.com/dragonic-overlord) means). So if you die with 6 damage, in a normal game you could only activate it once and at a high price.

Yeah, it's flamboyantly BL.

[Pastabasta]

I'm new to this site, I haven't even explored it yet (I found this thread through Google). I didn't expect this show to have any fans, on the contrary, I was preparing for an influx of hate actually . It's great to see more people follow this show and are curious where it will go.
The show so far, looks good, a bit on the simple side, but I like that, as it allows me to relax during the episodes.
I'll be checking back every now and then, just wanted to say thanks for pointing out the fanbase for Cardfight Vanguard (alongside the wiki links and such).

[einhorn303]

- Obviously Kai's hair style is very common.
- There's actually a poster for the first Vanguard starter decks in the back of the shop, with Aichi and Kai pictured on it (05:33). That's pretty hillariously meta.
- Kind of ironic she's talking about buying outfits when, like many cartoon characters, she wears the exact same clothes all the time. Unless it's her school uniform (although an odd one it would be).
- Today Aichi learns the power of card advantage.
- Misaki checks for a Damage Trigger in a totally cool way.
- Misaki's deck here reminds me of playing my Landstill deck against Zoo in Legacy tournaments. Stabilize at 1 life with superior board position, and you're life total won't matter since your opponent won't be able to touch you.
- Misaki is totally tsundere for Vanguard.
- I'm not sure what this "Charge a soul" stuff is.
- This is the first time in the show that we actually see Aichi losing a game. And it's good that he actually does lose once in a while.
- Grade 3s...*cut to booster packs* BUY MORE CARDS!

[Pastabasta]

They are kinda forcing it with all the 'buy more cards, you need to see them all/ get stronger decks'. They could have done it more elegantly, or at least integrate it in a more compelling plot (Yu-Gi-Oh! style). But I guess it's too early to judge.

Can't wait for the school kid next episode. I think I'm gonna like him.

Also: I love how the damage counters always seem to be thrown in by someone else, a third person.

[einhorn303]

- Kids these days.
- Unbeknownst to Kamui, Aichi is just concealing his power level.
- Emi sure does get mistaken for Aichi's girlfriend a lot.
- Aichi needs to step up to buying booster boxes.
- That's an interesting mulligan system. Instead of something you only do with occasional awful hands, it's a part of basic strategy that's likely to show up every game.
- The stand trigger and critical trigger are both similar and not in subtle ways. They both give +5000 Power and let you do an extra damage in your turn, but an extra damage in different ways.
- Another episode in which Aichi loses! But he has a really positive attitude about it.

[einhorn303]

- Another loli character appears.
- It's less a card shop than some sort of advanced Vanguard research center.
- Only Aichi has the latent psychic energy needed to activate the device.
- It'd be neat if they had holograms like this at the MtG Pro Tours and such. All that animation could be ridiculously expensive though, especially if you have to animate it for every single card.
- It seems unique to see "mirror matches" in card game anime.
- Even though he presents Blaster Blade as his signature card, Aichi doesn't use it's Counterblast once and just uses it as a one-turn ramp to the next grade...
- Morikawa isn't just an idiot at card games, he's a multi-purpose idiot.
- Ah, now I see...Gancelot's Counter Blast also gives it +1 critical along with the +5000 Power. And it only works if Blaster Blade is under it. That's how Aichi was able to come within 1 damage of winning that turn (well, except that Heal trigger made him 2 damage short of winning).
- Well that sure was an anticlimactic ending. I imagine these (sinister?) "PSY" characters will show up in a larger role later.
- Next episode, Kai shows up again...and Aichi doesn't get to fight him! Sucks for Aichi.

[einhorn303]

- Do not anger the Misaki!
- Aichi apologizes even though it totally isn't his fault.
- "It's pointless for me to fight you as you are." Kai's saying this even though he lost to Aichi the last time they played?
- In Vanguard, having only 2 damage left at the start of your opponent's turn is a very precarious position.
- I think it's fascinating how every card in Vanguard is a Thieving Magpie, (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=129764) and Grade 3's with Twin Drive are doubly so. It gives it a real aggressive "constantly attack" feel.
- Kai makes the game so much more dramatic and bad-ass than any other player. And "You have not the power"...ww.
- Even Misaki thinks that Kai is totally tsundere.
- I guess the manager is printing out posters for an upcoming tournament?

[einhorn303]

Does anyone know how many cour this anime will be? I'd be glad if it was two-cour, but the finish of this tournament could be a definitive ending point.

- Wow, Emi, not being too encouraging...
- The shot with the lightning right before the eyecatch totally looks like they just applied a Photoshop/GIMP artistic filter.
- To be honest, when it comes to card combinations, I think modular mechanics are much more interesting than linear mechanics.
- If he had had a card with 1000-point Guard for that final Alfred attack, Kai's opponent could have won, reducing Alfred's power to 1000 vs his 1000-point Hell Spider. Or wait, does the attacker win on ties?
- Wait, there's actually cute girls watching this match? Based on my own experiences of card shops, that's what really requires suspension of belief.

[einhorn303]

- You know it's a serious day when you have a hamburger for breakfast.
- The Ninja Master is the teacher from the school. Lol wacky gaijin. Reminds me of Patrick Galbraith in his Goku outfit.
- Someone needs to get that cat onto YouTube.
- Oh, Morikawa is so screwed. Though he'd really be screwed no matter who he faced.
- Double critical? まさか！
- Misaki is cutely nervous too.
- It seems next episode's match will be very...interesting.

[einhorn303]

Mark-sensei plays the game in very Jamie Wakefield sort of way. The discard mechanic is interesting in that, like Heal triggers, it depends on being behind the opponent, preventing real total lock-down scenarios.

I'm somewhat surprised this episode ran into a second one, since it's not a very important match. But at the current rate, the anime must be more than one-cour since we still haven't met tons of characters in the OP.

Edit: Oh yeah, it's listed as continuing at http://www.crunchyroll.com/lineup (duh).

[einhorn303]

- Wouldn't it have been better to use the Stand Trigger on Alfred, since it has 2000 power? Or is the +200 per Paladin ability a one-time thing?
- Well, Misaki is obviously going to win, so that other female player is out of the tournament.
- And Misaka wins in an awesome way, too.
- Oh god, she's blushing and acting tsun.
- The finalists are pretty predictable, all the main characters. And if things go predictably, Aichi and Kai will fight in the finals.
- Why does Mark Sensei carry a giant clock around with him?!
- I hope they actually show the Kai vs Misaki fight instead of having it in the background.

[LKK]

And if things go predictably, Aichi and Kai will fight in the finals.
I hope they don't meet in the finals. I think it's too early in the series for that to happen.

[einhorn303]

And if things go predictably, Aichi and Kai will fight in the finals.
I hope they don't meet in the finals. I think it's too early in the series for that to happen.

I think it'd work if they fight now, and then there's some stronger villain or more potent arc that comes after that. Like sinister red-haired guy in the OP.

Or, maybe Aichi could lose to Kai, and that spurs him on to train more and truly reach Kai's level. Some sort of plot development like that.

The most truly unpredictable resolution to this tournament would be something like Kamui winning it all.

[LKK]

And if things go predictably, Aichi and Kai will fight in the finals.
I hope they don't meet in the finals. I think it's too early in the series for that to happen.

I think it'd work if they fight now, and then there's some stronger villain or more potent arc that comes after that. Like sinister red-haired guy in the OP.

Or, maybe Aichi could lose to Kai, and that spurs him on to train more and truly reach Kai's level. Some sort of plot development like that.

The most truly unpredictable resolution to this tournament would be something like Kamui winning it all.
Kamui winnining it all would surprise me too. But I could see Kamui vs Kai as the final pairing. We haven't seen them fight yet, have we? If not, this is the perfect opportunity for that.

[einhorn303]

But I could see Kamui vs Kai as the final pairing. We haven't seen them fight yet, have we? If not, this is the perfect opportunity for that.

That was in episode 7, "The Fearsome Soulblast."

[LKK]

But I could see Kamui vs Kai as the final pairing. We haven't seen them fight yet, have we? If not, this is the perfect opportunity for that.

That was in episode 7, "The Fearsome Soulblast."
How quickly I forget. (Not that Vanguard is the world's most memorable show to begin with.) But I'm still hoping for a Kamui vs Kai for the final round.

[einhorn303]

- Kamui should realize that beating Aichi won't do anything to ingratiate himself to Emi.
- Morikawa and Miwa do some amazing frame-jumping during their conversation.
- Aww, Misaki lost. Even though it was an inevitable outcome. Her internal monologue sure is different from her normal character.

[einhorn303]

Good episode this week...possibly my favorite one yet.

- The end of the match between Aichi and Kamui was really nice and dramatic.
- Kamui cast Relentless Assault (http://magiccards.info/10e/en/225.html).
- Aichi...lost? Before even the finals? I did not see that coming at all. People's reactions to it and Aichi eventually enjoying the finals, earnestly as a spectator, all add to that sense of realism I enjoy about this show.
- Lol blatant Milky Holmes cameo.
- Now the ED makes more sense. Training roadtrip!
- Next episode, a new loli character is introduced. And they go to another shop...where people are, inexplicably, all pirates.