AKB48 anime directed by Kawamori Shoji to air in Spring 2012

[Fencedude]

Words don't really suffice (http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2011/10/17/j-pop-idols-akb48-get-anime-series)

What the hell?

[Draneor]

That's one way to print money, I guess. I just don't know how much AKB48 fans would be willing to pay.

[MelancholicMariya]

The Macross creator? Huh. So it's probably going to have decent music if he has anything to say about it, however I'm not really fond of AKB48's music at all.

It's like watching Idolmaster if it were real people, and it's not good, it all comes off as a little forced. Though it'll probably translate into an anime perfectly? I dunno.

[Draneor]

however I'm not really fond of AKB48's music at all.

It's like watching Idolmaster if it were real people, and it's not good, it all comes off as a little forced.

I'm almost certain this anime is not intended for anime fans/otaku. On the other hand, AKB48 fans should devour it. Anime is, after all, a medium. While the vast majority of titles are aimed for either kids or anime otaku, there's no reason a show can't be made for idol otaku.

[MelancholicMariya]

however I'm not really fond of AKB48's music at all.

It's like watching Idolmaster if it were real people, and it's not good, it all comes off as a little forced.

I'm almost certain this anime is not intended for anime fans/otaku. On the other hand, AKB48 fans should devour it. Anime is, after all, a medium. While the vast majority of titles are aimed for either kids or anime otaku, there's no reason a show can't be made for idol otaku.

I didn't say that it shouldn't or couldn't be made, I just said AKB48 in general doesn't work for me. I've watched their PV's and they're way too cheesy and their relationships come off as forced and trying too hard to be cute, such as girls touching, in a slightly affectionate way, or leaning on each other with a blank facial expression. That's just my opinion. Of course I can see people eating this up, it's just not my thing.

The band thing is similar to Idolmaster, but with too many girls on screen. I care about the Idolmaster characters, but with AKB48 there are too many "characters" for me to even begin caring about one. You don't really get a sense of each girls personality in the videos.

[FUNiOP]

I'm not surprised, even though I have absolutely no interest. I am surprised that there isn't a Hatsune Miku anime first, but I guess they want a huge cast.

[Fencedude]

I'm not surprised, even though I have absolutely no interest. I am surprised that there isn't a Hatsune Miku anime first, but I guess they want a huge cast.

You realize that there is absolutely no connection between the two things, right?

[Draneor]

I didn't say that it shouldn't or couldn't be made, I just said AKB48 in general doesn't work for me.

But why even have an opinion on a phenomenon that is clearly not directed to an audience you are even remotely a part of? There's a ton of stuff I'm not interested in, like pro-wrestling, trains, and Japanese talk shows. And yes even idol groups. I just don't see the need to have an opinion on stuff I'm not interested in beyond "it exists."

For that matter, I don't see how iDOLM@STER or Hatsune Miku can be compared to AKB48 any more than your typical school-based anime can be to actual Japanese public schools. In fact, I see them as entirely unrelated and not remotely similar at all.

[MelancholicMariya]

But why even have an opinion on a phenomenon that is clearly not directed to an audience you are even remotely a part of? There's a ton of stuff I'm not interested in, like pro-wrestling, trains, and Japanese talk shows. And yes even idol groups. I just don't see the need to have an opinion on stuff I'm not interested in beyond "it exists."

I tried their songs, I didn't like them, nor did I like their act, that's my opinion. I'm allowed to have an opinion on whatever I want. I enjoy music, I am interested in different types of music, just not this group, I am allowed to have an opinion. I was also commenting on the anime getting produced. I don't see the big deal, I even stated how I know who would enjoy this, it's just not my thing.


For that matter, I don't see how iDOLM@STER or Hatsune Miku can be compared to AKB48 any more than your typical school-based anime can be to actual Japanese public schools. In fact, I see them as entirely unrelated and not remotely similar at all.

You don't see how a huge dancing girl group has any comparison to Idolmaster? I don't see how it relates to Hatsune Miku as she's a music program first, and a dancing game second. Of couse you can draw parallels between AKB48 and Idolmaster.

[something]

Oh god. I've never even heard an AKB song (though I think some of their spinoff units have done some anime OP/EDs) but this... this will sure be something. I will have to watch at least one episode, just so I can say I did.

[Suwako Moriya]

I have no idea what to think about this. Still I wonder how much spicing up we'll get. As in you take someone who is a decent martial artist and then decide his cartoon version can destroy airplanes with flying kicks.

[Draneor]

You don't see how a huge dancing girl group has any comparison to Idolmaster? I don't see how it relates to Hatsune Miku as she's a music program first, and a dancing game second. Of couse you can draw parallels between AKB48 and Idolmaster.

Do you compare NFL to Madden (or the other football to Sports FIFA)? IMS is a game based on the real life idol phenomenon that only really exists in SE Asia. Hundreds of groups like akb48 were long around before anyone even thought of creating IMS. 2D is, as always, an idealization. That's why I don't think it can be compared to 3D. As for Hatsune Miku, she has long since transcended being a mere music program and taken on a life of her own as a virtual idol.

[Fencedude]

Oh god. I've never even heard an AKB song (though I think some of their spinoff units have done some anime OP/EDs) but this... this will sure be something. I will have to watch at least one episode, just so I can say I did.

I've only ever heard the ED song SKE48 did for Shin Mazinger, Tsuyiki Mono yo. It was actually pretty epic, and was used at a pretty dramatic point as an insert.

[MelancholicMariya]

You don't see how a huge dancing girl group has any comparison to Idolmaster? I don't see how it relates to Hatsune Miku as she's a music program first, and a dancing game second. Of couse you can draw parallels between AKB48 and Idolmaster.

Do you compare NFL to Madden (or the other football to Sports FIFA)? IMS is a game based on the real life idol phenomenon that only really exists in SE Asia. Hundreds of groups like akb48 were long around before anyone even thought of creating IMS. 2D is, as always, an idealization. That's why I don't think it can be compared to 3D. As for Hatsune Miku, she has long since transcended being a mere music program and taken on a life of her own as a virtual idol.

But isn't that entirely subjective? Idolmaster may be just a game, but the singing is real. They're a real band in a sense and a lot of people buy their music. Idolmaster and AKB48 are very similar. I am not saying the exact same, I'm saying it's similar. If the anime were to be about AKB48's music and dancing career stuff it'd be the exact same as Idolmaster. Their actual career, it's like Idolmaster in 3D. That's my entire point. Whether it's good or not is entirely up to you. To me it's not. Just because you don't think you can compare 2D to 3D doesn't mean I can't. Their career being kind of like Idolmaster was the whole reason why I tried to listen to their music. It's just the way some people look at things and it's not always going to be the same way of thinking you have.

And I know there have already been bands like AKB48, but I don't think many of them have gotten an anime devoted to themselves.

[Westlo]

This manga is pretty good imo

http://myanimelist.net/manga.php?id=23052

Don't see why the anime can't be.

[Fencedude]

This manga is pretty good imo

http://myanimelist.net/manga.php?id=23052

Don't see why the anime can't be.

This series is about a guy called Urakawa Minoru crossdressing as a girl to participate in a female idol group audition (akb48).

*twitch*

*twitch*twitch*

[William K]

Oh god. I've never even heard an AKB song (though I think some of their spinoff units have done some anime OP/EDs) but this... this will sure be something. I will have to watch at least one episode, just so I can say I did.

I've only ever heard the ED song SKE48 did for Shin Mazinger, Tsuyiki Mono yo. It was actually pretty epic, and was used at a pretty dramatic point as an insert.

The subgroup No3B (No sleeves) did the ED for Beelzebub and also Birdy the Mighty : Decode

[something]

This series is about a guy called Urakawa Minoru crossdressing as a girl to participate in a female idol group audition (akb48). *twitch*
*twitch*twitch*
Ahahah, amazing. Japan even manages to insert a male protagonist into an AKB manga? Wow. Just wow. Yeah would pass so hard if the anime were to do something like that. Not that I'm expecting all that much out of this show in general at the moment.

[MelancholicMariya]

This manga is pretty good imo

http://myanimelist.net/manga.php?id=23052

Don't see why the anime can't be.

The art is really nice. It reminds me of Bakuman's more recent style a little bit. Also traps.

[Westlo]

This series is about a guy called Urakawa Minoru crossdressing as a girl to participate in a female idol group audition (akb48). *twitch*
*twitch*twitch*
Ahahah, amazing. Japan even manages to insert a male protagonist into an AKB manga? Wow. Just wow. Yeah would pass so hard if the anime were to do something like that. Not that I'm expecting all that much out of this show in general at the moment.

Typical reaction from you two, the funny thing is his trap/girl version is probably a better female character than tje ,ajority of female characters you see around in anime/manga. (He reminds me of the Skip Beat lead female). He easily outdoes his female lead counterpart who's the weak link of the manga, less her and more of the AKB girls please, A-chan ftw.

It's an entertaining manga with good art, it's a shame the genderbender side of it will put of so many people, from your reaction to the opposite.

Also I don't know why so many people are wtf @ kawamori doing this, name other directors who've produced as many successful series as him with idols as a focus? Obviously the Macross series had the triple attack of mecha, romance and music/idols but I can't see why he can't just focus on one part, especailly when he has a writer like Okada with him for this.

Speaking of her it seems Satelight have attached themselves to her, since both this and Aquarion EVOL are being done by her... I guess the odds of her getting ahold of whatever the Macross 30 project ends up being is rather high...

And fuck if this is Spring 2012 than when the fuck is Aquarion EVOL going to air...

[MelancholicMariya]

It's an entertaining manga with good art, it's a shame the genderbender side of it will put of so many people, from your reaction to the opposite.

Funnily enough, the trap part is the entire reason why I'm trying it out. I must be in the minority. It's kind of silly why he's doing this, but i'll roll with it.


Speaking of her it seems Satelight have attached themselves to her, since both this and Aquarion EVOL are being done by her... I guess the odds of her getting ahold of whatever the Macross 30 project ends up being is rather high...

And fuck if this is Spring 2012 than when the fuck is Aquarion EVOL going to air...

Is Statelight small enough of a studio not to have two anime airing in Spring? So far I've been assuming EVOL would be airing in Spring.

[Draneor]

Also I don't know why so many people are wtf @ kawamori doing this, name other directors who've produced as many successful series as him with idols as a focus? Obviously the Macross series had the triple attack of mecha, romance and music/idols but I can't see why he can't just focus on one part, especailly when he has a writer like Okada with him for this.

I suppose a good question is "who else should direct this"? I'd think you'd want an experienced director for the project to meet its potential.

On a side note, I wonder what time slot this will get. I don't think a LN would be ideal.

[Fencedude]

Typical reaction from you two, the funny thing is his trap/girl version is probably a better female character than tje ,ajority of female characters you see around in anime/manga. (He reminds me of the Skip Beat lead female). He easily outdoes his female lead counterpart who's the weak link of the manga, less her and more of the AKB girls please, A-chan ftw.

It's an entertaining manga with good art, it's a shame the genderbender side of it will put of so many people, from your reaction to the opposite.


Is it really so shocking that people would be put off by a goddamn boy being the main character of an AKB manga? Seriously?

The concept is decent enough, but I know that if I were an AKB fan I'd have been seriously pissed off

[something]

It's an entertaining manga with good art, it's a shame the genderbender side of it will put of so many people, from your reaction to the opposite.
Pbft, I've watched plenty of shows involving traps and liked many of said traps, but if I'm going to read/watch a story about a idol unit comprised of dozens of girls, I have absolutely no interest in seeing a male protagonist added in. Why even use AKB in that case?

Oh, and I can't exactly be "anti-genderbending" when Hourou Musuko is one of my top series of the year and I'm one of only like 1000 people who bothered to buy it, Japanese included...

[Draneor]

Why even use AKB in that case?

Branding.

[something]

Why even use AKB in that case?Branding.
I meant it more from a "What does it contribute to the storytelling?" sense, which I admit is naive. Of course it's all about sales.

[Draneor]

I meant it more from a "What does it contribute to the storytelling?" sense, which I admit is naive. Of course it's all about sales.

Especially with this kind of project. Honestly, from what little I know about idol fans, I'd expect the inclusion of an idol with a boyfriend would upset them far more. Then again, I've also read about a survey that indicated only the fringe of idol fandom is bothered about such things (they just happen to be the loudest).

[something]

Especially with this kind of project. Honestly, from what little I know about idol fans, I'd expect the inclusion of an idol with a boyfriend would upset them far more. Then again, I've also read about a survey that indicated only the fringe of idol fandom is bothered about such things (they just happen to be the loudest).
I damn well hope it's only the fringe. Every time I read about the creep stalking Toyosaki Aki and posting about her alleged relationship with Tom-H@ck or the drama over Taketatsu maybe having a boyfriend back in high school, I get so annoyed. It makes me absolutely furious to see people make threats (no matter how unlikely it is they'd follow through) against the entertainers they purport to like so much. People need to recognize the fucking line between 2D and 3D.

Argh it makes me mad to even type about it.

[superdry]

It's an entertaining manga with good art, it's a shame the genderbender side of it will put of so many people, from your reaction to the opposite.

Funnily enough, the trap part is the entire reason why I'm trying it out. I must be in the minority. It's kind of silly why he's doing this, but i'll roll with it.


You're not the only one. A trap in my AKB48? Sure. I think it's kind of cute a boy crossdressing to help his crush.

[superdry]

AKB48 getting an anime makes me wonder why we never got a Morning Musume anime back in the day.

Bizarre. I don't care much for the group (I sort of did when they first debuted, but not anymore). I might want to watch an episode or two depending on the story.

[Westlo]

Also I don't know why so many people are wtf @ kawamori doing this, name other directors who've produced as many successful series as him with idols as a focus? Obviously the Macross series had the triple attack of mecha, romance and music/idols but I can't see why he can't just focus on one part, especailly when he has a writer like Okada with him for this.

I suppose a good question is "who else should direct this"? I'd think you'd want an experienced director for the project to meet its potential.

Well Kawamori is an experienced director and no one has directed idol characters in as high profile shows as he had (Macross one of the defining mecha anime shows period + Macross Frontier one of the best selling anime tv shows).

Also I think people are forgetting he's just directing, it's is Mari Okada who will actually be writing the story.

[Westlo]

Funnily enough, the trap part is the entire reason why I'm trying it out. I must be in the minority. It's kind of silly why he's doing this, but i'll roll with it.

Actually I checked it out for the same reason, his trap character is pretty awesome imo. And he only went in drag to try and support his crush.. and than things just roll from that point on.

Is Statelight small enough of a studio not to have two anime airing in Spring? So far I've been assuming EVOL would be airing in Spring.

Satelight have probably had 2 shows airing at once quite a few times, I think they collaborate with A-1 Pictures to work on Fairy Tail and they use to work on Shugo Chara as well. I just don't think they can do 2 AAA projects like Aquarion EVOL + AKB48 Anime at the same time. Does't help that in 2008 enough people quit Satelight too form 2 brand new studios in Studio GOHANDS (Princess Lover & Seitokai Yakuin Domo) + Studio 8 Bit (Infinite Stratos).

Studio 8-Bit seems to be working a lot with Satelight anyway atm, they collaborated on the 2 Macross Frontier Movies (which makes sense since the majority of them were the Macross Frontier team...) and are doing the same with Aquarion EVOL. I'm guessing whatever project Macross 30 ends up being will also have 8-Bit working with them...

[Westlo]

Is it really so shocking that people would be put off by a goddamn boy being the main character of an AKB manga? Seriously?

The concept is decent enough, but I know that if I were an AKB fan I'd have been seriously pissed off

It's serialized in Shounen Magazine (Negima, Ippo, Bloody Monday, Seitokai Yakuindomo, Good Ending etc), any AKB fan reading that magazine and not expecting a male protagonist is an idiot.

Female leads in the Big 3 shounen mags (Jump, Magazine and Sunday) are rare as fuck. I think Medaka from Medaka Box is the only female lead in all of JUMP and even now fans of the male lead want to argue that he is in fact the lead character. (Because he's being offered main character status in the actual manga by the villain, oh Nisio you troll.)

[Westlo]

Why even use AKB in that case?Branding.
I meant it more from a "What does it contribute to the storytelling?" sense, which I admit is naive. Of course it's all about sales.

It's actually selling rather well atm and has been increasing sales with each volume, more because it's actually good and not because it's branded with AKB.

If there's an anime adaption one day you should check it out and judge the MC by his character instead of his gender.

[Fencedude]

It's serialized in Shounen Magazine (Negima, Ippo, Bloody Monday, Seitokai Yakuindomo, Good Ending etc), any AKB fan reading that magazine and not expecting a male protagonist is an idiot.

Female leads in the Big 3 shounen mags (Jump, Magazine and Sunday) are rare as fuck. I think Medaka from Medaka Box is the only female lead in all of JUMP and even now fans of the male lead want to argue that he is in fact the lead character. (Because he's being offered main character status in the actual manga by the villain, oh Nisio you troll.)

Ok, and I'm supposed to say "oh, thats fine!" Or something? What makes you think I give a damn?

[something]

more because it's actually good and not because it's branded with AKB.
In other cases you've been a strong proponent of the idea that quality has essentially nothing to do with sales. If that's true at all I don't think that would be less true for something branded with the biggest name in modern Japanese pop music. Whether it is good or not.

If there's an anime adaption one day you should check it out and judge the MC by his character instead of his gender.
Whether he's a good or bad character actually isn't important to me in this case; it's whether I want to watch a story with that mixture of premise and protagonist, period. The answer is that I'd probably rather not given that there's dozens of other series I could watch in any given season. Same reason I don't watch anime focusing on the "big TV sports" (football, baseball etc; I sometimes try niche stuff like figure skating, karuta, kendo or shougi though), regardless of whether they're supposed to be good or bad.

Not wanting to watch something is different from thinking it's shit. I know most people don't bother to make that distinction but I always do. I think I watch a more than broad enough range of shows to have the right to be at least slightly picky about what I don't watch.

[Draneor]

It's actually selling rather well atm and has been increasing sales with each volume, more because it's actually good and not because it's branded with AKB.

I make no statement on the quality of the manga itself. Honestly, it's not my thing and thus I have no opinion on it. I see it like the Twilight or Maximum Ride manga Yen Press puts out. They may very well be great manga in their own right, but they were adapted because the brand sells. I don't see anything wrong with this.

In other cases you've been a strong proponent of the idea that quality has essentially nothing to do with sales. If that's true at all I don't think that would be less true for something branded with the biggest name in modern Japanese pop music. Whether it is good or not.

My opinion has always been that quality, apart from technical merit, is extremely subjective and sales is one of the few objective tools we can use to measure what others consider to be of value. That doesn't mean any specific individual needs to find value in it. However, if 100,000s of people like AKB and I don't (as is the case), there is obviously something there that appeals to them.

Not wanting to watch something is different from thinking it's shit. I know most people don't bother to make that distinction but I always do. I think I watch a more than broad enough range of shows to have the right to be at least slightly picky about what I don't watch.

That's one thing I respect about you.

[Westlo]

Ok, and I'm supposed to say "oh, thats fine!" Or something? What makes you think I give a damn?

*posts in thread multiple times*
*plays I don't give a damn card*

Awesome.

[Fencedude]

Ok, and I'm supposed to say "oh, thats fine!" Or something? What makes you think I give a damn?

*posts in thread multiple times*
*plays I don't give a damn card*

Awesome.

Please reexamine what that statement was in regards to.

[Westlo]

Please reexamine what that statement was in regards to.

Oh that's right, you mean the one where I explained to you that anyone reading the magazine would be an idiot to not expect a male protag, which makes your statement of akb48 fans being pissed less valid (it would like be being pissed over a akb clothes line being only girls clothes lol), to which you now reply, I don't care.

Also awesome.

[Fencedude]

Please reexamine what that statement was in regards to.

Oh that's right, you mean the one where I explained to you that anyone reading the magazine would be an idiot to not expect a male protag, which makes your statement of akb48 fans being pissed less valid (it would like be being pissed over a akb clothes line being only girls clothes lol), to which you now reply, I don't care.

Also awesome.

Way to completely miss my point.

The problem is the expectation that something run in that mag would have a male protagonist. I'm objecting to the higher level problem here.

[Draneor]

The problem is the expectation that something run in that mag would have a male protagonist. I'm objecting to the higher level problem here.

Shounen Magazine appeals to a broad, wide demographic (http://zepy.momotato.com/2009/02/15/jump-magazine-and-sunday-readerships/). It's not like the manga ran in Yuri Hime. Manga targeted to otaku can get away with pretending "males don't exist." Normal people generally don't read stuff like that.

Now, if you want to argue that the AKB48 manga would have done better in another magazine, like Dengeki Daioh, that's one thing. Personally, I think it needs one of the big magazines to meet its potential.

[HitokiriShadow]

The problem is the expectation that something run in that mag would have a male protagonist. I'm objecting to the higher level problem here.

Shounen Magazine appeals to a broad, wide demographic (http://zepy.momotato.com/2009/02/15/jump-magazine-and-sunday-readerships/). It's not like the manga ran in Yuri Hime. Manga targeted to otaku can get away with pretending "males don't exist." Normal people generally don't read stuff like that.


Wait, so making the lead character in a story about an all female idol group = "pretending 'males don't exist'"? Not having a male main character is a strange, weird thing regardless of the context and the contortions they have to make to justify the lead character being a male? Why does "broad audience" have to mean a male lead? Why can't something aiming for a broad audience have a female lead? Why on earth should something have to run in a niche magazine for a story to have a female lead character?

[Draneor]

You know damn well what kind of property I was referring to about "pretending 'males don't exist" and that they, are in fact, targeted towards otaku. More mainstream titles tend to include both genders and, one could argue, have more interesting characters from both genders. This is hardly controversial

Why does "broad audience" have to mean a male lead? Why can't something aiming for a broad audience have a female lead? Why on earth should something have to run in a niche magazine for a story to have a female lead character?

Because that's what the Japanese public wants. Also, there are plenty of titles aimed towards females that have a female lead character that aren't in niche magazines. Shounen Magazine, however, is primarily targeted towards males. And at the end of the day, I can guarantee you that Kodansha is in the best position to know what that demographic of the Japanese public wants.

That doesn't mean you have to like it (hell, I don't because I don't give a shit about AKB48 or 90% of what runs in the big three). But complaining that "popular mainstream magazine aimed towards men doesn't have a female lead" just doesn't make any sense given the demographic Kodansha is going for. It would be equally stupid to complain about the lack of male leads in Ribbon or Nakayoshi or Yuri Hime. Shit is in a certain magazine for a reason.

The fact of the matter is that the AKB48 manga you and Fence seem to want doesn't fit in with the demographic of the big three. It would need to run in a different magazine. Course, there's no reason more than one can't be made.

[HitokiriShadow]

You know damn well what kind of property I was referring to about "pretending 'males don't exist" and that they, are in fact, targeted towards otaku.

Yes, I knew what you referring to, but those are completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, so I don't know why you'd bring them up. I (and Fence and something) are objecting the the main character being a male, not that there are males in it at all. I would have no problem with their being male characters, even significant ones. I would have no problem with at least some of the idols, even the main one, having boyfriends. (Though I reserve the right to be annoyed with how the series handles them, like making the female lead's entire motivation for becoming an idol be to woo a guy, which would piss me off.)

Why does "broad audience" have to mean a male lead? Why can't something aiming for a broad audience have a female lead? Why on earth should something have to run in a niche magazine for a story to have a female lead character?

Because that's what the Japanese public wants. Also, there are plenty of titles aimed towards females that have a female lead character that aren't in niche magazines. Shounen Magazine, however, is primarily targeted towards males. And at the end of the day, I can guarantee you that Kodansha is in the best position to know what that demographic of the Japanese public wants. This has little to do with "what the Japanese public wants" (most of which likely don't give a shit about AKB48) and everything to do with high yen and low risk, which means going to the magazine with the highest circulation. They didn't make this manga just (or even mainly) for existing AKB48 fans, they were at least partially trying to make new ones from an audience that had little or know interest and/or knowledge of them. And even if it IS "what the public wants".... so what? I'm supposed to say, "Oh, okay then, that's totally cool then"? Fuck no.

There is a serious problem (not just in Japan, in the U.S. and other places as well) with the idea that "male lead character" is the DEFAULT for broad appeal. Men expect to identify with characters of their own sex and see things through their own sex's point of view, and 95+% of everything "mainstream" and with "broad appeal" gives it to them. Meanwhile women are supposed to suck it up and (with some rare exceptions) only have stories told through their point of view, with a character for them to identify with, when the stories are For Girls Only (or for Men With Particular Interests and/or Just Want to Look At T&A, such as the Yuri Hime example you gave or 99% of the time a Western Video game has a female lead character.) At best, there are two "leads", one of each sex, but the female one is almost always secondary and usually the story is told mostly or entirely from the male's point of view.

And like something said, this has nothing to do with whether or not the male character (or the show as a whole) is any good. The vast, vast majority of male leads fall somewhere between "Forgettable Blank Slate" and "Completely Awful", but that's a separate issue. He very well may be a great character, but that doesn't mean that whole idea of having him their isn't a fucking stupid idea for really infuriating reasons.

That doesn't mean you have to like it (hell, I don't because I don't give a shit about AKB48 or 90% of what runs in the big three). But complaining that "popular mainstream magazine aimed towards men doesn't have a female lead" just doesn't make any sense given the demographic Kodansha is going for. It would be equally stupid to complain about the lack of male leads in Ribbon or Nakayoshi or Yuri Hime. Shit is in a certain magazine for a reason.

The fact of the matter is that the AKB48 manga you and Fence seem to want doesn't fit in with the demographic of the big three. It would need to run in a different magazine. Course, there's no reason more than one can't be made.And like Fencedude already pointed out, that's kind of beside the point. I wouldn't be complaining (much; I would still be a little annoyed, but much more accepting of it) if AKB48 started there. But they're a group of real people. Making a story about a real all female idol group and then making the lead character a male is stupid, full stop. Saying "but, but, but they HAD to because of the magazine they put it in!" isn't a defense, it just highlights broader problems.

[Draneor]

Yes, I knew what you referring to, but those are completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand, so I don't know why you'd bring them up.

It's relevant because it's a type of story Fence, who I was addressing, usually likes. If they had adapted the manga with no males and plenty of subtext, I don't think he would be bitching. There's nothing wrong with that type of story; it just isn't going to run in the big three.

And even if it IS "what the public wants".... so what? I'm supposed to say, "Oh, okay then, that's totally cool then"? Fuck no.

Uh, no? I have repeatedly said people don't have to like it. But it is silly to have unreasonable expectations which contradict the way the world works (whether it should or not be that way).

There is a serious problem (not just in Japan, in the U.S. and other places as well) with the idea that "male lead character" is the DEFAULT for broad appeal.

AKB48 is hardly the best work to insist on defying marketing conditions for a crusade in gender equality. Particularly because the whole idol phenomenon is hardly pro-woman (for that matter, neither is otaku culture but that's neither here nor there).

Look, at the end of the day, manga is marketed towards specific demographics. Often when gender in mind. If most males between the ages of 15-34 don't really want to read a story about a female, I do not believe it is the publisher's duty to force them.

. I wouldn't be complaining (much; I would still be a little annoyed, but much more accepting of it) if AKB48 started there. But they're a group of real people. Making a story about a real all female idol group and then making the lead character a male is stupid, full stop. Saying "but, but, but they HAD to because of the magazine they put it in!" isn't a defense, it just highlights broader problems.

If it gets more people interested in AKB48 (specifically those read Shounen Magazine), then yes they may have to adjust the story to cater to what those readers expect. Maybe it should have run in a different magazine. I don't know.

[HitokiriShadow]

It's relevant because it's a type of story Fence, who I was addressing, usually likes. If they had adapted the manga with no males and plenty of subtext, I don't think he would be bitching. There's nothing wrong with that type of story; it just isn't going to run in the big three.

Well, I obviously can't speak for Fencedude, so I'll leave it to him to clarify his position if he feels like it. But I think what you just said requires an almost willful misreading of his position and some pretty ridiculous logical leaps.

And even if it IS "what the public wants".... so what? I'm supposed to say, "Oh, okay then, that's totally cool then"? Fuck no.

Uh, no? I have repeatedly said people don't have to like it.You are using "what the pubic wants" to try to say that my criticism of the story is invalid and that I should accept it. No, that's not quite saying I have to like it, but you're trying to tell me I'm wrong for disliking it.

Edit: I partially retract that. You're "what the public wants" comment was in response to my broader point, not my complaints about this show specifically. My apologies. But saying "I'm not telling you have to like it" still doesn't fly, because you ARE trying to tell us that we're wrong for disliking. I'm not saying you're wrong for doing so. I certainly think there can be stupid reasons for disliking something, and I won't say you can't say/think the same of mine, but please don't say things like that when doing so.

But it is silly to have unreasonable expectations which contradict the way the world works (whether it should or not be that way). Yes, its so silly to expect a story about an all female idol group (a real one at that) to have a female lead.

I understand the business reasons for the decision. None of us have said that it was an unreasonable business decision. That doesn't make it any less stupid.


Look, at the end of the day, manga is marketed towards specific demographics. Often when gender in mind. If most males between the ages of 15-34 don't really want to read a story about a female, I do not believe it is the publisher's duty to force them.

You're right. I'm sure all the people that want to read/watch a story about an all female idol group don't want to read a story about a female character.

[Fencedude]

I basically agree with Hitokiri, but here's a one line clarification of my point.

I understand why things are the way they are, but that doesn't mean I have to like it or not bitch when a male lead is shoved into something that doesn't need one.

[HitokiriShadow]

Crisis averted. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-12-13/akb48-girl-group-akb048-anime-story-revealed) The anime has nothing to do with that godawful AKB48 manga, its an original story. The premise pretty LOL-worthy, but not in bad way (and no signs of any males being involved; so far, at least). Idols sticking it to the man.... in space!

It's also looking like its going to use original characters rather than actual AKB48 girls, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

[something]

The premise pretty LOL-worthy, but not in bad way (and no signs of any males being involved; so far, at least). Idols sticking it to the man.... in space!
Whenever I read a synopsis like that I think of that old Charles Barkley (or was is Shaq? Whatever) video game. >_>

It's also looking like its going to use original characters rather than actual AKB48 girls, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.
Not that I'd know the difference!

Anyway this sounds terrible, in a fun way. I'll watch.

[HitokiriShadow]

Whenever I read a synopsis like that I think of that old Charles Barkley (or was is Shaq? Whatever) video game. >_>

It was probably Shaq. I never played them, but I remember games with his name on them, such as "Shaq-fu" and.... something like "Shaquile O'Neil in Windy City". Or maybe they were both the same game. I don't feel like googling them to check.

It's also looking like its going to use original characters rather than actual AKB48 girls, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.Not that I'd know the difference!Nor would I, but I think using the "real" girls would restrict what they could do with them. Having to stick with the girl's established idol personalities, not doing things to damage their brand... both would probably make it hard to do much interesting with them, or at least it seems like it would severely restrict them and make it a lot harder.

Anyway this sounds terrible, in a fun way. I'll watch.Yep.

[superdry]

Crisis averted. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-12-13/akb48-girl-group-akb048-anime-story-revealed) The anime has nothing to do with that godawful AKB48 manga, its an original story. The premise pretty LOL-worthy, but not in bad way (and no signs of any males being involved; so far, at least). Idols sticking it to the man.... in space!

I thought the anime was going to be an original story to begin with and have nothing to do with the manga that Westlo brought up a while back.

The premise is a WTF. I don't know if I'm interested enough to actually watch it.

[DiGiKerot]

Whenever I read a synopsis like that I think of that old Charles Barkley (or was is Shaq? Whatever) video game. >_>

It was probably Shaq. I never played them, but I remember games with his name on them, such as "Shaq-fu" and.... something like "Shaquile O'Neil in Windy City". Or maybe they were both the same game. I don't feel like googling them to check.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Something was thinking of Charles Barkley: Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkley,_Shut_Up_and_Jam:_Gaiden).

[MelancholicMariya]

This sounds pretty interesting, but it sounds like this could of just been an original anime and not just a cash in on the AKB48 name. Eh. Seeing as it's not really got anything to do with AKB48, other than in name only, I'm actually a bit more interested than I was.

I guess I am enjoying that AKB48 manga though.

[Fencedude]

Crisis averted. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2011-12-13/akb48-girl-group-akb048-anime-story-revealed) The anime has nothing to do with that godawful AKB48 manga, its an original story. The premise pretty LOL-worthy, but not in bad way (and no signs of any males being involved; so far, at least). Idols sticking it to the man.... in space!

It's also looking like its going to use original characters rather than actual AKB48 girls, which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

Oh wow. This is going to be amazing.

I'm already in love with it.

Kawamori obviously found a stash of the good stuff when coming up with this premise.