AoD Review: ROD TV Vol. #5 [Archive]

Chris Beveridge

02-21-2005, 10:26 AM

Review (http://www.animeondvd.com/reviews2/disc_reviews/3591.php)

[ QUOTE ]
In Summary:
Much like past installments of the series, this volume covers all the bases of what's making this show so much fun. The characters have plenty of moments to shine with their quirks while not standing out with them, there's plenty of revelations about the larger picture on both sides of the fence and the action sequences, which are generally all too brief at times but are beautifully choreographed, make their way just when needed and shine just right. With this one having a bit more down time in order to set the stage for the final six episodes, the action is a bit less but no less intense when it gets going. This show just flies by and demands multiple viewings, I can't get enough of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fluffy

02-21-2005, 10:28 AM

"A/Positive" from me. Excellent series, excellent disc.

Chiyosuke

02-21-2005, 10:29 AM

A+ and positive. It's about time I actually own a disk before you review it /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.

Loved volume 5, but I'm feeling some major animosity towards Miss Anita King.

MalrocK

02-21-2005, 10:36 AM

A+ and Positive!

I can't get enough of this series. I love every second.

MalrocK

02-21-2005, 10:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Chiyosuke said:
but I'm feeling some major animosity towards Miss Anita King.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? She's the character I feel the most connection and understanding with. I think she is perfectly justified in all the feelings, emotions, and actions that she went though in this volume. If there is anyone I'm feeling a huge amount of animosity towards it would have to be Wendy /images/graemlins/anger200.gif /images/graemlins/anger200.gif. That bitch, I can't stand her. Nothing but a tool/pawn to be manipulated by Joker. She seriously needs to get laid by someone so she won't be all over his nuts every second

neaux

02-21-2005, 10:43 AM

well if Chris says the disc is actually coming out tomorrow instead of last week.. I guess there really was a change in Street date.

I'll be looking forward to this disc tomorrow from suncoast.

Chiyosuke

02-21-2005, 10:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
[ QUOTE ]
Chiyosuke said:
but I'm feeling some major animosity towards Miss Anita King.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? She's the character I feel the most connection and understanding with.

[/ QUOTE ]

At first I liked her (even though she's been a complete asshole at time), but episode 20 pushed me to the limit. How could she just blatantly say that Yomiko dragged them into anything. Remember Yomiko tried to escape from them... and the Paper Sister have a knack for not minding their own fuckin' business. I don't know, maybe volumes 6 and 7 will change my mind.

Chiyosuke

02-21-2005, 10:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
neaux said:
well if Chris says the disc is actually coming out tomorrow instead of last week.. I guess there really was a change in Street date.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait, so that means I got this a week early? Hell yeah /images/graemlins/devil.gif.

*goes off and does happy dance*

ic14

02-21-2005, 10:52 AM

I hated the triple layered cliff hanger at the end of this disc /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

Fluffy

02-21-2005, 11:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Chiyosuke said:
[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
[ QUOTE ]
Chiyosuke said:
but I'm feeling some major animosity towards Miss Anita King.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? She's the character I feel the most connection and understanding with.

[/ QUOTE ]

At first I liked her (even though she's been a complete asshole at time), but episode 20 pushed me to the limit. How could she just blatantly say that Yomiko dragged them into anything. Remember Yomiko tried to escape from them... and the Paper Sister have a knack for not minding their own fuckin' business. I don't know, maybe volumes 6 and 7 will change my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you're saying, but she's still just a kid. She's not likely to rationalize that quickly especially during a moment of painful loss. Remember, Yomiko was there (along with "fire') when Anita lost everything before. It's natural for her to blame Yomiko again especially considering the visual imagery: fire.

When in painful situations that seem to be a repeat of another, kids lash out through association rather then rationalization. It’s not like she was going to turn around to Yomiko and say, "Okay, those nosey bitches are dead. What's next boss?" /images/graemlins/wink.gif Anita is carrying a lot of baggage for a kid her age.

Personally, I think Anita is the best written character of the series so far. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

aleczman

02-21-2005, 11:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
neaux said:
well if Chris says the disc is actually coming out tomorrow instead of last week.. I guess there really was a change in Street date.

I'll be looking forward to this disc tomorrow from suncoast.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, my local Suncoast (where I had the vol. reserved) called me a couple of weeks ago to let me know that it had been delayed. Yesterday Sunday, they called me to let me know that it'd be ready for pickup on Tuesday.

Dagger

02-21-2005, 11:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Chiyosuke said:
A+ and positive. It's about time I actually own a disk before you review it /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.

Loved volume 5, but I'm feeling some major animosity towards Miss Anita King.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's definitely understandable. In certain parts of the show, I frickin' hated her (especially as I'm a big Yomiko fan).

Yoda47

02-21-2005, 11:37 AM

I watched it almost as soon as it came in. This show keeps getting better and better! More explanations of what happened in between the anime and the TV, more plot being laid out, and a nasty cliffhanger at the end.

MalrocK

02-21-2005, 11:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Flood said:
Personally, I think Anita is the best written character of the series so far. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I totally agree. Plus she's so damn cute /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

02-21-2005, 11:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Dagger IX1 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Chiyosuke said:
A+ and positive. It's about time I actually own a disk before you review it /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.

Loved volume 5, but I'm feeling some major animosity towards Miss Anita King.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's definitely understandable. In certain parts of the show, I frickin' hated her (especially as I'm a big Yomiko fan).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know why you put that in spoiler tags, considering she's been revealed for awhile now...But anyway, I don't understand how anyone can be a Yomiko fan anymore. She's portrayed as so weak and pathetic in this volume that it's laughable. Hey Yomiko, why don't you run away for a few years again?

I mean, unless you just like her huge tits.

MalrocK

02-21-2005, 11:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Chikane Chan said:
But anyway, I don't understand how anyone can be a Yomiko fan anymore. She's portrayed as so weak and pathetic in this volume that it's laughable. Hey Yomiko, why don't you run away for a few years again?

[/ QUOTE ]
Because she has huge boobies /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[ QUOTE ]

I mean, unless you just like her huge tits.

[/ QUOTE ]
Doh, seems like you read my mind

02-21-2005, 12:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:

Doh, seems like you read my mind

[/ QUOTE ]

Hah! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

But yeah, to summarize: Anita rocks.

Evangelist

02-21-2005, 06:01 PM

Okay! possible spoiler question, does the TV series ever explain:
 How Yomiko got her paper master powers?

GHardin

02-21-2005, 06:23 PM

Loved this volume. Yes, I hate cliffhangers, but the rest of the disc compensated for that. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

DogBone

02-21-2005, 08:18 PM

Street date was pushed back, huh? I'd pick this up at Suncoast tomorrow, but I ordered this from DDD. Don't feel like cancelling.

Innotech

02-21-2005, 09:59 PM

well I found it at best buy early, so I [picked it up. I honestly thought (and everything online said) Feb 15th. Thusly, I picked up vol 5 at BB on the 15th. Ok so it was a mistake but this volume is soooo good I really dont care this time that I broke street date.

Kaj

02-21-2005, 11:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Innotech said:
well I found it at best buy early, so I [picked it up. I honestly thought (and everything online said) Feb 15th. Thusly, I picked up vol 5 at BB on the 15th. Ok so it was a mistake but this volume is soooo good I really dont care this time that I broke street date.

[/ QUOTE ]Just a silly question, but why are you bothered about picking something up before the actual street date?
The sooner I get my anime, the better...

Innotech

02-22-2005, 04:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Kaj said:
[ QUOTE ]
Innotech said:
well I found it at best buy early, so I [picked it up. I honestly thought (and everything online said) Feb 15th. Thusly, I picked up vol 5 at BB on the 15th. Ok so it was a mistake but this volume is soooo good I really dont care this time that I broke street date.

[/ QUOTE ]Just a silly question, but why are you bothered about picking something up before the actual street date?
The sooner I get my anime, the better...

[/ QUOTE ]

well, because I have a few friends working at the stores and ID hate for them to be partly responsible for hte store getting fined (since they rang up merchandise that the computer says is before street date). then again perhaps they really cant tell eiher. I just feel like its cheating everyone else out of stuff.

Chiyosuke

02-22-2005, 09:38 AM

Something else pissed me off about this volume. They introduced Donny's character (sort of) and that seems to be the reason why Yomiko snapped like that, but Yomiko acted as if it was all for Nancy and we hear nothing more about Donny. I think co-writing Excel Saga has done something to Kurata's head /images/graemlins/tongue.gif. Also he always seems to get these questions/comments on how/why certain characters change so much, yet in this volume one of the characters actaully comment on it. How's that for contradiction.

Xenozohar

02-22-2005, 11:34 AM

Yomiko is still thinking about Donnie Nakajima, she is still wearing his glasses, but it's been a time since his death she had learn to live with it, but when she learn that he is still alive (sort of) her entire world collapsed.
But it don't seems that something can be done for Donnie after the treatment the British Library gave him. One the other hand Nancy is unable to live by herself so Yomiko decided to take care of her. And it's not really Yomiko to start a crusade to advenge herself...

Beagle-san

02-22-2005, 01:58 PM

A+ and positive from me.

This show is brilliant in so many ways, and on so many different levels.

As to Anita and Yomiko, I've posted my thoughts on them both on the "ROD TV Vol. 5 LE" thread.

Nonetheless, Anita is not a major bitch: She's a child of tragedy who has been through the ringer.

Beagle-san

02-22-2005, 02:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Chikane Chan said:
[ QUOTE ]
Dagger IX1 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Chiyosuke said:
A+ and positive. It's about time I actually own a disk before you review it /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.

Loved volume 5, but I'm feeling some major animosity towards Miss Anita King.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's definitely understandable. In certain parts of the show, I frickin' hated her (especially as I'm a big Yomiko fan).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know why you put that in spoiler tags, considering she's been revealed for awhile now...But anyway, I don't understand how anyone can be a Yomiko fan anymore. She's portrayed as so weak and pathetic in this volume that it's laughable. Hey Yomiko, why don't you run away for a few years again?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've commented n Yomiko on the "LE" thread. However, Yomiko, weak, pathetic and laughable? Hardly. You did watch how she outsmarted Mirror Man, instructing Anita in combat techniques? You did see how she took apart the squad sent to deal with her and Anita? How she went off in pursuit of the helicopter? 

Weak, pathetic and laughable? In this episode we see that she truly is an incredibly dangerous agent, capable of coldly outwitting her enemies, a veteran master of combat, instead of merely being a highly powered person able of overpowering her enemies. 

Yomiko is forced to deal with major guilt issues in this episode, as her past comes to roost. And then when she reunites mother and son, she has that small measure of happiness turned into an additional tragedy, along with her belief that she has ultimately failed her promise to the original Nancy.

The gal has issues, but weak and pathetic? The exact opposite is the impression I received.

The OVA presented Yomiko as an absent-minded gal who largely got by on her powers. She never came across as a professional like Drake or the first Nancy or Joker, but more along the lines of Wendy, but with powers.

Volume 5 showed just how damn good Yomiko actually is. She out-fought and out-thought her enemies, only to be staggered by seemingly to lose what was most valuable to her in the end.

[ QUOTE ]
I mean, unless you just like her huge tits.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, of course I do. /images/graemlins/devil.gif

But I luv the rest of Yomiko as well. Yomiko is one bad mother...

Chorus: Shut your mouth!

But I'm talking 'bout Yomiko!

Chorus: Well, that's alright then.

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

kurage

02-22-2005, 02:23 PM

Totally loving this show. And for some reason I really enjoy the unscripted previews too. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Nylock

02-22-2005, 06:15 PM

I should vote negative cause they're killing me with all these damn cliffhangers! /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

Excellent stuff - nice to see how everything is pulling together as we get near the end. There weren't too many surprises since I'd pretty much figured out a lot of it from earlier episodes, but I liked the way each revelation was handled.

I'm a bit confused by all the hatred displayed at Anita and/or Yomiko by people here. I think both characters are very well written - their actions seem consistent with the events as we see them and with what little bits we know of their pasts. Yomiko manages to hurt everyone around her unintentionally, and her actions just hurt her even more - is it any wonder she wants to hide from it all? Anita has had a life of suffering, and a big chunk is missing. Her only bright spot has been with Maggie and Michelle. Why wouldn't a kid react the way she did? When people's lives go horribly wrong in real life, they don't always react in a way that would actually help them, because they aren't able to think about the big picture - they concentrate on the immediate problem, and that can include lashing out at anyone in sight.

Evangelist

02-22-2005, 06:55 PM

I don't mean to push, but could someon please answer my question on page 2?

Fencedude

02-22-2005, 10:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
I don't mean to push, but could someon please answer my question on page 2?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Beagle-san

02-22-2005, 11:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
kurage said:
Totally loving this show. And for some reason I really enjoy the unscripted previews too. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, yeah! Forgot to mention that. /images/graemlins/shy00000.gif

The unscripted adlibbing previews by the seiyuu, all of whom are (roughly) in character, is hysterical. to call them previews is a misnomer, as there's nothing previewed, other than the female seiyuu cast guessing, and then making (invariably) incorrect assumptions of the upcoming episode based on the title of the next show. Heh, very funny, and definitely off-beat.

Ingraman

02-23-2005, 02:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
I don't mean to push, but could someon please answer my question on page 2?

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll need to provide a better pointer than that (message #, or something), since this message of yours that I'm currently replying to is the last one on page one (as shown on my browser).

Unless you typed the above before you typed your page-two message...

Fencedude

02-23-2005, 09:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ingraman said:
[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
I don't mean to push, but could someon please answer my question on page 2?

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll need to provide a better pointer than that (message #, or something), since this message of yours that I'm currently replying to is the last one on page one (as shown on my browser).

Unless you typed the above before you typed your page-two message...

[/ QUOTE ]

I already answered it.

The Pirate Queen

02-23-2005, 09:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
Okay! possible spoiler question, does the TV series ever explain:
 How Yomiko got her paper master powers? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Happy now?

michaelwb

02-23-2005, 09:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Dani said:
[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
Okay! possible spoiler question, does the TV series ever explain:
 How Yomiko got her paper master powers? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Happy now?

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought she got a paper cut from a radioactive piece of paper. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Or maybe she ate a lot of paper paste as a child...

guyver83

02-23-2005, 09:44 AM

I vote ... N/A cause this is another show I'm collecting and not watching until I get it all. I'll say one thing.. all these pencil boards will be hidden from ANY female viewing. Those who come and look at my collection will NOT see any of these pencil boards. /images/graemlins/shy00000.gif

Fencedude

02-23-2005, 09:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
guyver83 said:
I vote ... N/A cause this is another show I'm collecting and not watching until I get it all. I'll say one thing.. all these pencil boards will be hidden from ANY female viewing. Those who come and look at my collection will NOT see any of these pencil boards. /images/graemlins/shy00000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not even the Junior one?

guyver83

02-23-2005, 09:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
[ QUOTE ]
guyver83 said:
I vote ... N/A cause this is another show I'm collecting and not watching until I get it all. I'll say one thing.. all these pencil boards will be hidden from ANY female viewing. Those who come and look at my collection will NOT see any of these pencil boards. /images/graemlins/shy00000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Not even the Junior one?

[/ QUOTE ]

The one that looks like Griffen from Berserk? that one is creepy..

vegeta11

02-23-2005, 10:07 AM

the only other series that compete with it from last year are Chrno & Gungrave for my favorite release starting in 04. Plus now my patience has paid off and there is a real artbox with volume 7 not that stupid book that bothered me so much! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

guyver83

02-23-2005, 10:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
vegeta11 said:
the only other series that compete with it from last year are Chrno & Gungrave for my favorite release starting in 04. Plus now my patience has paid off and there is a real artbox with volume 7 not that stupid book that bothered me so much! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I got that damn book ok.. got beef with it! /images/graemlins/anger200.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

vegeta11

02-23-2005, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
guyver83 said:
[ QUOTE ]
vegeta11 said:
the only other series that compete with it from last year are Chrno & Gungrave for my favorite release starting in 04. Plus now my patience has paid off and there is a real artbox with volume 7 not that stupid book that bothered me so much! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I got that damn book ok.. got beef with it! /images/graemlins/anger200.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I do I don't like throwing away my cases and coverart, but with the box coming with 7 I can have my cake and eat it too. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

yatsuhashi

02-23-2005, 10:56 AM

Any new info or pics of the box yet?

vegeta11

02-23-2005, 10:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yatsuhashi said:
Any new info or pics of the box yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

All I know right now is release date and that it comes with a figure (but not who the figure is). Personally I hope it is anyone but Maggie since she is my favorite so I already got one of her.

yatsuhashi

02-23-2005, 11:05 AM

Yomiko would make the most sense for a figure, which is probably why it won't be her. I'd say either Anita or Junior.

Fencedude

02-23-2005, 11:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yatsuhashi said:
Yomiko would make the most sense for a figure, which is probably why it won't be her. I'd say either Anita or Junior.

[/ QUOTE ]

40% Anita, 20% Yomiko, 20% Michelle, 10% Nancy, 5% Maggie, 5% Junior

The Pirate Queen

02-23-2005, 11:23 AM

I wonder if the figure is going to be one from the upcoming trading figure set. At that price, it makes more sense than the large PVC figures, and Geneon's included trading figures before (with AYA~E)

MalrocK

02-23-2005, 12:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dani said:
I wonder if the figure is going to be one from the upcoming trading figure set. At that price, it makes more sense than the large PVC figures, and Geneon's included trading figures before (with AYA~E)

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the Michelle PVC figure today at Waldens. I doubt that we will get any of that figure line. Very nice looking and I'm pretty sure they could fit it in the box, sans packaging, but they're not cheap. Waldens is selling it for $30 btw /images/graemlins/stunned1.gif. Like Dani, I'm placing my bet on one of the trading figures

Innotech

02-23-2005, 12:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
[ QUOTE ]
Dani said:
I wonder if the figure is going to be one from the upcoming trading figure set. At that price, it makes more sense than the large PVC figures, and Geneon's included trading figures before (with AYA~E)

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the Michelle PVC figure today at Waldens. I doubt that we will get any of that figure line. Very nice looking and I'm pretty sure they could fit it in the box, sans packaging, but they're not cheap. Waldens is selling it for $30 btw /images/graemlins/stunned1.gif. Like Dani, I'm placing my bet on one of the trading figures

[/ QUOTE ]

speaking of expensive figures, how is it that Bandai was able to package a one foot tall figuring of PAcifica in an artbox and sell it for like 50 bucks? I preordered htis because it seems like a great deal (not to mention a great show)

jonny

02-23-2005, 12:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
[ QUOTE ]
Dani said:
I wonder if the figure is going to be one from the upcoming trading figure set. At that price, it makes more sense than the large PVC figures, and Geneon's included trading figures before (with AYA~E)

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the Michelle PVC figure today at Waldens. I doubt that we will get any of that figure line. Very nice looking and I'm pretty sure they could fit it in the box, sans packaging, but they're not cheap. Waldens is selling it for $30 btw /images/graemlins/stunned1.gif. Like Dani, I'm placing my bet on one of the trading figures

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't suppose you have any pictures of the trading figures you've mentioned?

MalrocK

02-23-2005, 01:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lucky 13 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
[ QUOTE ]
Dani said:
I wonder if the figure is going to be one from the upcoming trading figure set. At that price, it makes more sense than the large PVC figures, and Geneon's included trading figures before (with AYA~E)

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the Michelle PVC figure today at Waldens. I doubt that we will get any of that figure line. Very nice looking and I'm pretty sure they could fit it in the box, sans packaging, but they're not cheap. Waldens is selling it for $30 btw /images/graemlins/stunned1.gif. Like Dani, I'm placing my bet on one of the trading figures

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't suppose you have any pictures of the trading figures you've mentioned?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you can find pictures of them on in one of the figures thread in general anime /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif. Sorry I don't know where exactly. They're up for order on hobbylink japan but with no pictures /images/graemlins/sad.gif

yatsuhashi

02-23-2005, 01:26 PM

I've been wondering too. I didn't see them in the figures thread.

jonny

02-23-2005, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
[ QUOTE ]
Lucky 13 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
[ QUOTE ]
Dani said:
I wonder if the figure is going to be one from the upcoming trading figure set. At that price, it makes more sense than the large PVC figures, and Geneon's included trading figures before (with AYA~E)

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the Michelle PVC figure today at Waldens. I doubt that we will get any of that figure line. Very nice looking and I'm pretty sure they could fit it in the box, sans packaging, but they're not cheap. Waldens is selling it for $30 btw /images/graemlins/stunned1.gif. Like Dani, I'm placing my bet on one of the trading figures

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't suppose you have any pictures of the trading figures you've mentioned?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you can find pictures of them on in one of the figures thread in general anime /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif. Sorry I don't know where exactly. They're up for order on hobbylink japan but with no pictures /images/graemlins/sad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Found the thread and link you mentioned, though it now appears to link to Lupin Figures instead of the R.o.d ones, guess i'll just have to wait until some official shots are relesed by Genon.

The Pirate Queen

02-23-2005, 02:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lucky 13 said:

Don't suppose you have any pictures of the trading figures you've mentioned?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I actually saved the picture! Wonders will never cease... Here you go! (http://fast.filespace.org/dani/img119.jpg)

Wouldn't it be evil if they packaged the box with a random trading figure? /images/graemlins/devil.gif

Evangelist

02-23-2005, 03:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dani said:
[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
Okay! possible spoiler question, does the TV series ever explain:
 How Yomiko got her paper master powers? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Happy now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, no, I'm not. I'm actually rather disappointed. One of the reasons I want to watch ROD the TV is the hope that it would explain how Yomiko got her powers, because that seemed like a rather important thing that the OAVs skipped. You'd think that a show that's TWENTY-SIX episodes long would take the time to answer such an important question about the character the show is based upon.

I'll actually have to reconsider buying the series now... /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

Stormfalcon

02-23-2005, 03:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
[ QUOTE ]
Dani said:
[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
Okay! possible spoiler question, does the TV series ever explain:
 How Yomiko got her paper master powers? 

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Happy now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, no, I'm not. I'm actually rather disappointed. One of the reasons I want to watch ROD the TV is the hope that it would explain how Yomiko got her powers, because that seemed like a rather important thing that the OAVs skipped. You'd think that a show that's TWENTY-SIX episodes long would take the time to answer such an important question about the character the show is based upon.

I'll actually have to reconsider buying the series now... /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Before getting after them about that "omission", I'd ask those who are familiar with the original novels if the matter of Yomiko's powers and their origin were covered in them. If so, then I'd understand completely why they wouldn't want to get repetitive with the information in the TV series. After all, the matter would have been already addressed to begin with. Of course, it would also underscore the need to have the novels (as well as the manga) brought over. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

wanfu2k1

02-23-2005, 03:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said: If there is anyone I'm feeling a huge amount of animosity towards it would have to be Wendy /images/graemlins/anger200.gif /images/graemlins/anger200.gif. That bitch, I can't stand her. Nothing but a tool/pawn to be manipulated by Joker. She seriously needs to get laid by someone so she won't be all over his nuts every second

[/ QUOTE ]
I nominate myself for this tough job /images/graemlins/devil.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Nylock

02-23-2005, 03:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
Actually, no, I'm not. I'm actually rather disappointed. One of the reasons I want to watch ROD the TV is the hope that it would explain how Yomiko got her powers, because that seemed like a rather important thing that the OAVs skipped. You'd think that a show that's TWENTY-SIX episodes long would take the time to answer such an important question about the character the show is based upon.

I'll actually have to reconsider buying the series now... /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

you're kidding? You mean you would skip a top notch title because it failed to address something that's blatantly impossible in the first place? It's just one of those superpower gimmick things that you just have to accept - or do you really think that the originals of the "great men" could do the things their conterparts did in the OVA? Mata Hari slept with men and was accused of being a spy - she didn't walk through walls. There is no explanation they could give that would work in the real world so why worry about it? Maybe someone hit them a graviton pulse from their deflector shield. Maybe they got hit on the head by radioactive paper reams.

And you said "One of the reasons I want to watch ROD the TV" - well this is only one, what about the others?

Colour me baffled. /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif

Fluffy

02-23-2005, 03:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
===
Actually, no, I'm not. I'm actually rather disappointed. One of the reasons I want to watch ROD the TV is the hope that it would explain how Yomiko got her powers, because that seemed like a rather important thing that the OAVs skipped. You'd think that a show that's TWENTY-SIX episodes long would take the time to answer such an important question about the character the show is based upon.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the "paper power" is a form of telekinetics. There's not much to the development or origin of telekinetic power. It's pretty bland actually and hackneyed as far as story lines go. Either inherited or the result of too much Agent Orange or from repetitive alien anal probes, the resulting power is more interesting then the origin (in most cases). The real story lies is their ability focus and move quickly with such large boobs.

[ QUOTE ]
I'll actually have to reconsider buying the series now... /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that’s too bad. It's a great series. You’re missing an event. I wouldn't let that one issue stop you from buy this. I'm sure, over time, the full answer to Yomiko, the three sisters and the origin of their telekinetic powers will come out. This is the Internet.

You should buy it instead of succumbing to such unoriginal behavior.

rpmurray

02-23-2005, 04:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dani said:
[ QUOTE ]
Lucky 13 said:

Don't suppose you have any pictures of the trading figures you've mentioned?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I actually saved the picture! Wonders will never cease... Here]http://fast.filespace.org/dani/img119.jpg]Here ( [url=http://fast.filespace.org/dani/img119.jpg) you go![/url]

Wouldn't it be evil if they packaged the box with a random trading figure? /images/graemlins/devil.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, I so want a figure of Nenene in the pose she's in on the pencil board. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

jonny

02-23-2005, 04:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
EmptyWallet said:
[ QUOTE ]
Dani said:
[ QUOTE ]
Lucky 13 said:

Don't suppose you have any pictures of the trading figures you've mentioned?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, I actually saved the picture! Wonders will never cease... <a href=" http://fast.filespace.org/dani/img119.jpg]Here</a> you go! (http://fast.filespace.org/dani/img119.jpg" target="_blank">Here)

Wouldn't it be evil if they packaged the box with a random trading figure? /images/graemlins/devil.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, I so want a figure of Nenene in the pose she's in on the pencil board. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well i wouldn't mind any of those, though I would prefer either the Nenene one or the Yomiko one. If any of those do come with the box i'll probably wind up getting it even though i already have the Book.

Evangelist

02-23-2005, 04:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nylock said:
[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
Actually, no, I'm not. I'm actually rather disappointed. One of the reasons I want to watch ROD the TV is the hope that it would explain how Yomiko got her powers, because that seemed like a rather important thing that the OAVs skipped. You'd think that a show that's TWENTY-SIX episodes long would take the time to answer such an important question about the character the show is based upon.

I'll actually have to reconsider buying the series now... /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

you're kidding? You mean you would skip a top notch title because it failed to address something that's blatantly impossible in the first place? It's just one of those superpower gimmick things that you just have to accept - or do you really think that the originals of the "great men" could do the things their conterparts did in the OVA? Mata Hari slept with men and was accused of being a spy - she didn't walk through walls. There is no explanation they could give that would work in the real world so why worry about it? Maybe someone hit them a graviton pulse from their deflector shield. Maybe they got hit on the head by radioactive paper reams.

And you said "One of the reasons I want to watch ROD the TV" - well this is only one, what about the others?

Colour me baffled. /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

"Not work in the real world"? This is an anime we're talking about here. I'm not looking for a scientific explanation, I'm asking for an origin story.

And it was more or less explained or implied where the I-Jin got their powers: genetic enhancement and super-technology

KomoriKiri

02-23-2005, 05:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Stormfalcon said:
Before getting after them about that "omission", I'd ask those who are familiar with the original novels if the matter of Yomiko's powers and their origin were covered in them.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is covered in the novels. I don't recall the series ever spelling it out, but they do hint around it quite a bit, so it isn't too hard to figure out.

This is all IIRC. Basically, it comes from a love of books/paper. Yomiko loves books with all her heart, and is willing to go to any length for them, as noted in the OVA by her jumping off the glider to grab one. The explanation, as I understand it, is that the paper knows this, and returns the affection. Which is why everyone finds it so odd that Anita has any paper master powers.
In addition, Yomiko was trained by Donny, the previous Paper Master for the British Library, and the one Joker uses to spark the whole problem. As the three sisters make obvious, Yomiko is far from the only Paper Master ever. The powers are not unique. She just happens to be an incredibly strong one.

Wraith
"The rightful order has been restored."
-- Gaz ("Invader Zim")

Evangelist

02-23-2005, 06:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wraith said:
[ QUOTE ]
Stormfalcon said:
Before getting after them about that "omission", I'd ask those who are familiar with the original novels if the matter of Yomiko's powers and their origin were covered in them.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is covered in the novels. I don't recall the series ever spelling it out, but they do hint around it quite a bit, so it isn't too hard to figure out.

This is all IIRC. Basically, it comes from a love of books/paper. Yomiko loves books with all her heart, and is willing to go to any length for them, as noted in the OVA by her jumping off the glider to grab one. The explanation, as I understand it, is that the paper knows this, and returns the affection. Which is why everyone finds it so odd that Anita has any paper master powers.
In addition, Yomiko was trained by Donny, the previous Paper Master for the British Library, and the one Joker uses to spark the whole problem. As the three sisters make obvious, Yomiko is far from the only Paper Master ever. The powers are not unique. She just happens to be an incredibly strong one.

Wraith
"The rightful order has been restored."
-- Gaz ("Invader Zim")

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, okay. Now I'll get the series

Innotech

02-23-2005, 07:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Evangelist said:
[ QUOTE ]
Wraith said:
[ QUOTE ]
Stormfalcon said:
Before getting after them about that "omission", I'd ask those who are familiar with the original novels if the matter of Yomiko's powers and their origin were covered in them.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is covered in the novels. I don't recall the series ever spelling it out, but they do hint around it quite a bit, so it isn't too hard to figure out.

This is all IIRC. Basically, it comes from a love of books/paper. Yomiko loves books with all her heart, and is willing to go to any length for them, as noted in the OVA by her jumping off the glider to grab one. The explanation, as I understand it, is that the paper knows this, and returns the affection. Which is why everyone finds it so odd that Anita has any paper master powers.
In addition, Yomiko was trained by Donny, the previous Paper Master for the British Library, and the one Joker uses to spark the whole problem. As the three sisters make obvious, Yomiko is far from the only Paper Master ever. The powers are not unique. She just happens to be an incredibly strong one.

Wraith
"The rightful order has been restored."
-- Gaz ("Invader Zim")

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, okay. Now I'll get the series

[/ QUOTE ]

talk about twisting arms /images/graemlins/relief1.gif

pianocello

02-24-2005, 03:44 AM

Something has been puzzling me for a while. For the 2nd ED in the upcoming volumes, we do find out who those figures are. But who is that girl in the 1st ED? Is that supposed to be Michelle? Is there any significance to the plot? (Yes the 2nd ED does have significance).

Beagle-san

02-26-2005, 01:56 AM

FYI, the Michelle figurine, and what a luverly figurine it is, can be found at my local Suncoast, soooo, ya might wanna check out their site.

Sigh

I'd love to get it, too. But if I did, my wife would... hurt... me, severely that is /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

DogBone

02-26-2005, 08:04 AM

NICE DISC! /images/graemlins/happy.gif
However that was probably the worst cliffhanger yet. Now I know what everyone meant on the vol #3 thread.

Innotech

02-26-2005, 12:51 PM

well I finally finished up vol 5. OMG that is one hell of a cliffhanger on several different levels /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

lorddream

02-26-2005, 10:08 PM

A-/Positive for the release (the A- is mostly due to my annoyance at the cliffhanger.)

F for the pencilboard. /images/graemlins/wink.gif For the first time, I think I can honestly say I'd be happier if I hadn't gotten the LE pack-in. /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif

02-28-2005, 09:22 PM

Whoa. /images/graemlins/knowital.gif That was by far THE single best volume of any anime. EVER. I cannot wait for the sixth disc!

Is the 2nd-ish opening new? With Yomiko and Nancy? Or did I just notice it? And, who are the people in the endings? Is it Michelle in the first, and Yomiko and Nenene in the second?

I wonder what the box and figure will be like? When do ya'll guess we'll get more information?

Jaynin

03-01-2005, 02:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ilaughead said:
Is the 2nd-ish opening new? With Yomiko and Nancy? Or did I just notice it?

[/ QUOTE ]

From episode 16. There have been three alterations to the OP within the episodes in discs 4 and 5. Disc 4 episode 15 replaced Lee with Joker and Wendy. Disc 4 Epside 16 added Yomiko and Nancy. Disc 5 Episode 18 added Drake.

pianocello

03-01-2005, 04:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ilaughead said:
And, who are the people in the endings? Is it Michelle in the first, and Yomiko and Nenene in the second?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nobody has answered my question. Just who is it in the 1st ED? At least we do find out who is in the 2nd ED.

Kaj

03-01-2005, 01:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
[ QUOTE ]
ilaughead said:
And, who are the people in the endings? Is it Michelle in the first, and Yomiko and Nenene in the second?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nobody has answered my question. Just who is it in the 1st ED? At least we do find out who is in the 2nd ED.

[/ QUOTE ]All will become clear after you see the final episode. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif
Sorry. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

rowen

03-01-2005, 03:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Kaj said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
[ QUOTE ]
ilaughead said:
And, who are the people in the endings? Is it Michelle in the first, and Yomiko and Nenene in the second?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nobody has answered my question. Just who is it in the 1st ED? At least we do find out who is in the 2nd ED.

[/ QUOTE ]All will become clear after you see the final episode. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif
Sorry. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I don't think it answers who is in the 1st ED though... /images/graemlins/happy.gif 'cuz I saw the final episode and still don't know... maybe I missed something?

03-05-2005, 10:48 PM

My random thoughts after finally getting a chance to watch this:

I really liked this volume, and the complexity of the relationships that is emerging is really nice to watch. However, I didn't like how easily everyone (with the exception of Anita)was able to just dismiss the fact that Yomiko burnt down the British Library. I mean, didn't people die because of the fire? Didn't a great number of innocent people suffer because of what happened after the fire? Wasn't it a needless act of violence that caused Joker to believe that more drastic measures were needed? I understand the fact that it was necessary to forgive her, but the fact that they did it so easily was a little irritating and unrealistic to me. I don't say she shouldn't be forgiven, I just say that they have let her off the hook a little too easily. Of course, Anita does her best to make up for their non-chalant attitude about it. /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif

And I'd be curious to know how much Wendy knows about how the incident went down. I mean, if all she knows is that Yomiko burned down the Library, stole the book, and made her country go through a great deal of hardship because of it, the fact that she's bitter and angry at Yomiko is understandable. I also, unlike most shows with complex villians have a hard time really hating either Joker or Wendy. Of course I don't agree with what they are doing, but Joker is not so blatently evil that he makes a good villian, and Wendy has definitely been shown to still have her good traits

I'm definitely looking forward to the next volume.

Nuriko

03-06-2005, 09:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
TheOnionPrince said:
My random thoughts after finally getting a chance to watch this:

I really liked this volume, and the complexity of the relationships that is emerging is really nice to watch. However, I didn't like how easily everyone (with the exception of Anita)was able to just dismiss the fact that Yomiko burnt down the British Library. I mean, didn't people die because of the fire? Didn't a great number of innocent people suffer because of what happened after the fire? Wasn't it a needless act of violence that caused Joker to believe that more drastic measures were needed? I understand the fact that it was necessary to forgive her, but the fact that they did it so easily was a little irritating and unrealistic to me. I don't say she shouldn't be forgiven, I just say that they have let her off the hook a little too easily. Of course, Anita does her best to make up for their non-chalant attitude about it. /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Yomiko did it because:

1. She wanted to escape and take the book with her to save Junior in the future.

2. There wasn't enough time to clearly think this through, it was sort of reactionary, and hopefully by doing that, she could delay or even stop the project.

Seeing how she reacted while the books were being buring in the Fahrenheit 451 episode shows her love for books and how hard it must have been for her to light the torch on the British Library. I'm thinking that she has no choice. If it was for the better of the world, then I can probably agree with Joker but it's ONLY for Great Britain, therefore I can't justify his actions by sacrificing Junior.

Given that she made a promise to Nancy, it sorts of become a moral issue, do you save Junior in exchange for the well being of Great Britain assuming that you absolutely loyal to that country?

I say if the man has died, let him rest in peace /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

rpmurray

03-06-2005, 11:31 AM

Is it just me or am I reading this wrong.

From what I took away from these episodes, the burning of the British Library was an unintended side-effect of Yomiko trying to escape from Joker. Especially after he made clear what his future plans were.

Fencedude

03-06-2005, 11:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
EmptyWallet said:
Is it just me or am I reading this wrong.

From what I took away from these episodes, the burning of the British Library was an unintended side-effect of Yomiko trying to escape from Joker. Especially after he made clear what his future plans were.

[/ QUOTE ]

It went like this.

Joker shows Yomiko what happened to Donny.

Yomiko goes nuts, her paper powers firing off randomly

Paper sparks off of a cut power cord, fire starts.

It was not intentional on her part.

03-06-2005, 06:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:

Given that she made a promise to Nancy, it sorts of become a moral issue, do you save Junior in exchange for the well being of Great Britain assuming that you absolutely loyal to that country?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, well, I don't think Yomiko really has much moral high ground to stand on in this case. Obviously what Joker is doing is wrong, but is it right for her to endanger the lives of a great deal of innocents for the sake of preserving the identity of one person (Junior)? If Anita had died in the fire, then Yomiko would have essentially negated what she was doing--she would have essentially sacrificed the life of one innocent for another. And since we don't know everything about what happened in Great Britain during that time, it is impossible, we don't know how much suffering the people of Britain endured as a result of the fire. Sorry, but if it was intentional (and I don't think it was), the choosing of one person over millions doesn't sound like a very moral decision. Of course, since it was pretty obviously unintentional, it can be written off as an awful mistake for which Yomiko can try to redeem herself. But I just thought the non-chalant way they were able to do so was pretty alarming. 

And another thing about Wendy If you look at it from her perspective, not only did she turn on them and burn down the British Library, but also sided against her and Joker with Nancy, who (as I remember from the OVA) betrayed both the British Library and Yomiko specifically several times. So Yomiko sides with a traitor, not just by defying their orders, but also by destroying the Library which puts the entire country in the proverbial wilderness for several years. Her anger and bitterness towards Yomiko are perfectly understandable.

Yoda47

03-06-2005, 06:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
EmptyWallet said:
Is it just me or am I reading this wrong.

From what I took away from these episodes, the burning of the British Library was an unintended side-effect of Yomiko trying to escape from Joker. Especially after he made clear what his future plans were.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think she kinda flipped out too. Seems she kinda lost control after him telling her what he wanted Junior for, and showing her that picture of her boyfriend and what they did to him, I think she just lost it and didn't really think but just reacted.

wanfu2k1

03-07-2005, 11:35 AM

Yeah, she was pretty much out of it when the library burned. You will notice that she saved Anita at the end when she saw her about to get caught up in the explosion. You can actually say it was Joker that burned down the Library since he knew showing Yomiko Donny's picture would probably cause her to flip.

03-07-2005, 02:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
wanfu2k1 said:
You can actually say it was Joker that burned down the Library since he knew showing Yomiko Donny's picture would probably cause her to flip.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if someone makes you mad enough, you are no longer responsible for your own actions? It is likely that Joker knew it would make her mad, but the fact of the matter is Yomiko still allowed herself to go out control and use her powers for destructive means. We can emphathize with how Yomiko must have felt at that moment, but that doesn't mean that we should absolve her of any responsibility for her own actions.

DogBone

03-07-2005, 03:04 PM

I'm curious for the next volume? How come Hisami doesn't remember Anita (my guess is brainwashed)? Also the deal with Jinbocho being demolished and Joker's "Alternative plan".

wanfu2k1

03-07-2005, 06:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
TheOnionPrince said:
[ QUOTE ]
wanfu2k1 said:
You can actually say it was Joker that burned down the Library since he knew showing Yomiko Donny's picture would probably cause her to flip.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if someone makes you mad enough, you are no longer responsible for your own actions? It is likely that Joker knew it would make her mad, but the fact of the matter is Yomiko still allowed herself to go out control and use her powers for destructive means. We can emphathize with how Yomiko must have felt at that moment, but that doesn't mean that we should absolve her of any responsibility for her own actions.

[/ QUOTE ]
No but it makes other people more sypathetic to your cause, and that could be the reason why Maggie, Michelle, ect were accepting of what happened. It looks like in order to control paper correctly you need a high level of mental focus. Showing Yomiko what happened to her beloved donnie would most definately distrubted that focus. I actually think it was a gross miscalculation by joker. My theory is that Joker showed her that picture figuring it would break her focus and she wouldn't be able to control paper and thus be easy for the guards to handle. Instead her powers went berserk and ended burning down the library which is something Joker definately didn't want happen.

03-07-2005, 06:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
wanfu2k1 said:
No but it makes other people more sypathetic to your cause, and that could be the reason why Maggie, Michelle, ect were accepting of what happened. It looks like in order to control paper correctly you need a high level of mental focus. Showing Yomiko what happened to her beloved donnie would most definately distrubted that focus. I actually think it was a gross miscalculation by joker. My theory is that Joker showed her that picture figuring it would break her focus and she wouldn't be able to control paper and thus be easy for the guards to handle. Instead her powers went berserk and ended burning down the library which is something Joker definately didn't want happen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, that theory makes much more sense than the "trigger an involuntary reaction" hypothesis. Of course, I don't buy that Yomiko didn't have some control either.

And as to why they were so nonchalant about the fire, it does make sense when you put it that way. There is likely some kind of Paper Master/avid book fan comradery at play as well. In addition, with the exception of what happened to Anita, none of them has any reason to care about the British Library (except for the lost books, which probably hurt Yomiko the worst of all) or Great Britain itself, including the fact that they are being currently hunted by agents of that country. I guess there is also the fact they can do nothing about what has happened, and letting go of what happened is best for practical reasons, if nothing else.

So I can buy that it makes sense for them to forgive her easily, but I still cannot buy that it was in any way justified or not her fault.Nor can I see the supposed enemies as utterly evil. But that's fine, since both of those ideas adds another level of good complexity to the story.

Nuriko

03-07-2005, 10:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
TheOnionPrince said:

So I can buy that it makes sense for them to forgive her easily, but I still cannot buy that it was in any way justified or not her fault.Nor can I see the supposed enemies as utterly evil. But that's fine, since both of those ideas adds another level of good complexity to the story.

[/ QUOTE ]

Give her a break, she's only human. Despite what she did in the OVA to save how many people? How is she rewarded? By treating her comrades' only son inhumanly? It's always easy for us as the audience to think rationally.

Did she have a good life afterwards? No instead, she went into hibernation for 5 years taking care of Nancy. I seriously can't fault her or hate her even one bit, especially seeing her once again since the OVA. The legendary paper master was no longer herself.

Anita, I can understand. It's hard to hate Yomiko unless you are a victim. As for Michelle and Maggie, since Yomiko is a friend of Nenene, then I can only assume that they'll accept her as a friend too. They are stuck inbetween Anita who hates Yomiko and Nenene whou would do anything for her. Seriously, what do you want them to do? Take sides? Regardless, they are in this mess together already, nor is it the right time for them to settle the score, that is until Anita remembers her past.

I swearing, seeing Yomiko for the first time again in her state reminded me of Griffith from Berserk.

Nuriko

03-07-2005, 10:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
TheOnionPrince said:

So if someone makes you mad enough, you are no longer responsible for your own actions? It is likely that Joker knew it would make her mad, but the fact of the matter is Yomiko still allowed herself to go out control and use her powers for destructive means. We can emphathize with how Yomiko must have felt at that moment, but that doesn't mean that we should absolve her of any responsibility for her own actions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we agree that it was unintentional. Given that her state of mind was unstable, the penalty against her would be less harsh according to law? One might even argue that it is a form of self defense, after all they wanted to capture her.

So let me ask you this, a person shows you want they did to your beloved one and are telling you that he is gonna do the same to a poor innocent kid who practically is almost like your god-son AND intends to capture you, you'll stand still and not freak out?

03-08-2005, 12:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:

They are stuck inbetween Anita who hates Yomiko and Nenene whou would do anything for her. Seriously, what do you want them to do? Take sides? Regardless, they are in this mess together already, nor is it the right time for them to settle the score, that is until Anita remembers her past.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if you had read the last part that I wrote I said that now that I had thought about it a little more it made sense how non-chalant they were about it, like it was no big deal--because to them it didn't really matter. My initial issue with the scene was that it seemed unrealistic how they shrugged off what had happened, but when I thought about the characters it made sense.

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we agree that it was unintentional. Given that her state of mind was unstable, the penalty against her would be less harsh according to law? One might even argue that it is a form of self defense, after all they wanted to capture her.

So let me ask you this, a person shows you want they did to your beloved one and are telling you that he is gonna do the same to a poor innocent kid who practically is almost like your god-son AND intends to capture you, you'll stand still and not freak out?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that the fire itself was unintentional, but I have a hard time believing that the overuse of the paper prowess was totally out of her control. I would assume that using paper in that manner would require a great deal of concentration and focus, something that would require she be at least partially cognizant of her actions. As someone with great power, she should know that firing off her powers randomly like that could have dire consequences. Thus, I think she is still responsible even if she was in an emotionally-heightened state of mind.

And if it was intentional but acting out of self-defense, then it was a ridiculous way of defending herself because a great deal less force would have been necessary to get out of the building. Let me say this again though if you didn't catch it the first time: I emphasize with Yomiko. I truly do. However, what I disagreed with in the several posts that followed mine was people's desire to remove any blame from Yomiko and place it squarely on Joker's shoulders. That I find ridiculous, personally. I think that both Joker and Yomiko are culpable for what happened at the Library.

What makes it even harder for someone to justify her actions (if indeed you believe it to be a conscious decision) is that she was doing it what amounted to selfish reasons. She didn't steal the book and release her powers in order to save the world or anything like that--she did it for the sake of basically three people: Nancy, Nancy's son, and also somewhat for Donny Nakajima. The fire, though I don't know how many people it injured, could have very easily killed many more people than just three, and thus to me would have negated any selflessness she displayed by interceding on Nancy's behalf by playing a part in the deaths of more people than she might have saved--basically sacrificing those lives for the ones who were more important to her. That is of course not to mention the suffering that innocents may have endured as a result of that fire.

But let me say this yet again, I don't dislike Yomiko and indeed empathize with her. Indeed, believing that she is partially culpable makes her even more of a tragically flawed figure, which in my opinion makes her more likable, three-dimensional and human, which in turn makes for a more interesting series in my mind. If you don't want to believe in her culpability in the matter, taking the perspective of anything she does must be the fault of the villain, I can respect that, because I can see why some people's like for Yomiko makes them unable to see when she is in the wrong and also the fact that a certain way of watching the show might lead you towards that interpretation. I respect that and won't say that the point of view is invalid. I simply can't wholly agree with that perspective.

rowen

03-08-2005, 12:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
TheOnionPrince said:
And if it was intentional but acting out of self-defense, then it was a ridiculous way of defending herself because a great deal less force would have been necessary to get out of the building. Let me say this again though if you didn't catch it the first time: I emphasize with Yomiko. I truly do. However, what I disagreed with in the several posts that followed mine was people's desire to remove any blame from Yomiko and place it squarely on Joker's shoulders. That I find ridiculous, personally. I think that both Joker and Yomiko are culpable for what happened at the Library.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean to be nitpicky.. I really don't. But for clarity's sake... you mean empathize, right?

03-08-2005, 12:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
rowen said:
[ QUOTE ]
TheOnionPrince said:
And if it was intentional but acting out of self-defense, then it was a ridiculous way of defending herself because a great deal less force would have been necessary to get out of the building. Let me say this again though if you didn't catch it the first time: I emphasize with Yomiko. I truly do. However, what I disagreed with in the several posts that followed mine was people's desire to remove any blame from Yomiko and place it squarely on Joker's shoulders. That I find ridiculous, personally. I think that both Joker and Yomiko are culpable for what happened at the Library.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't mean to be nitpicky.. I really don't. But for clarity's sake... you mean empathize, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I certainly do /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif When you write that much you're bound to miss a spot here and there.

itsuka

03-08-2005, 12:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
DogBone said:
I'm curious for the next volume? How come Hisami doesn't remember Anita (my guess is brainwashed)? Also the deal with Jinbocho being demolished and Joker's "Alternative plan". 

[/ QUOTE ]

Just speculating: I think it is an effect of the test site that Wendy was preparing. Perhaps it's possible to control people and memories through the books that are availabe. Why else would they try to seize all places were books are kept? 

But I'm even more interested in the Maggie/Maggie detail... even wilder speculation: The fact that Drake mentioned someone called Maggie, which he didn't associate with the current Maggie, probably a daughter, made me wonder about such things like rapid growing up or time travel. After all, our Maggie resembles Drake a lot... and so far we don't know anything about Michelle or Maggie's background, even if Anita's background is starting to show that she is also a Library project. Perhaps all three of them are... Could they have used Yomiko's genes? That would explain the Paper powers. My GM sense is tingling here

Don't tell me whether I'm right or not if you know /images/graemlins/happy.gif

03-08-2005, 01:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Itsuka said:

But I'm even more interested in the Maggie/Maggie detail... even wilder speculation: The fact that Drake mentioned someone called Maggie, which he didn't associate with the current Maggie, probably a daughter, made me wonder about such things like rapid growing up or time travel. After all, our Maggie resembles Drake a lot... and so far we don't know anything about Michelle or Maggie's background, even if Anita's background is starting to show that she is also a Library project. Perhaps all three of them are... Could they have used Yomiko's genes? That would explain the Paper powers. My GM sense is tingling here

[/ QUOTE ]

More wild speculation along those same lines Could Dokusensha's Paper Master have been Donny Nakajima, or a clone of some kind made by the British Library for Dokusensha as payment for their help. I kinda doubt that the person who is arguably the most powerful paper master in the world is just some random guy. I'm probably way off base, but it's a thought that occurred to me after I learned of the existence of Donny, who was also a Paper Master

wanfu2k1

03-08-2005, 11:54 AM

You know that was my first thought of who the dokusensha papermaster was. You know he's far more powerful than any of the three sisters. And according to what I've read around here Donnie is the one that taught Yomiko, so he would have to have been a very capable papermaster

wanfu2k1

03-08-2005, 12:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
TheOnionPrince said:

I agree that the fire itself was unintentional, but I have a hard time believing that the overuse of the paper prowess was totally out of her control. I would assume that using paper in that manner would require a great deal of concentration and focus, something that would require she be at least partially cognizant of her actions. As someone with great power, she should know that firing off her powers randomly like that could have dire consequences. Thus, I think she is still responsible even if she was in an emotionally-heightened state of mind.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think actually controlling her powers correctly requires alot of focus not the activation of their powers. Remember when anita first fought junior in the school library, and made all the paper pour out of the building? It seemed more like instinct than actual concentration that caused it.

You know thinking about this, I have an alternate theory also. Maybe your emotions also play a part in how you can control paper. Think about it, rating all the papermasters we've seen the strongest would be yomiko, and the dokusensha guy, then maggie, michelle, and finally anita. The top 3 of the papermasters are all quiet composed characters if not a little eccentric. While michelle is the flirty, more talkitive airhead more prone to emotions(take her infatuation with junior /images/graemlins/wink.gif ), and anita being the emotional child. Maybe your ability to control your feelings plays a part in controlling paper.

[ QUOTE ]

And if it was intentional but acting out of self-defense, then it was a ridiculous way of defending herself because a great deal less force would have been necessary to get out of the building. Let me say this again though if you didn't catch it the first time: I emphasize with Yomiko. I truly do. However, what I disagreed with in the several posts that followed mine was people's desire to remove any blame from Yomiko and place it squarely on Joker's shoulders. That I find ridiculous, personally. I think that both Joker and Yomiko are culpable for what happened at the Library.

[/ QUOTE ]
No they are both culpable but I think people who have watched the ovas realize that Yomiko would never willingly do something like burn down the library. We've all seen her risk her own life trying to save 1 book. Someone must have caused her to do it.

[ QUOTE ]

What makes it even harder for someone to justify her actions (if indeed you believe it to be a conscious decision) is that she was doing it what amounted to selfish reasons. She didn't steal the book and release her powers in order to save the world or anything like that--she did it for the sake of basically three people: Nancy, Nancy's son, and also somewhat for Donny Nakajima. The fire, though I don't know how many people it injured, could have very easily killed many more people than just three, and thus to me would have negated any selflessness she displayed by interceding on Nancy's behalf by playing a part in the deaths of more people than she might have saved--basically sacrificing those lives for the ones who were more important to her. That is of course not to mention the suffering that innocents may have endured as a result of that fire.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't agree it was a conscious decision by Yomiko to burn down the Library but even if it was her actions were justifiable. She already knew Junior was going to become the body for gentleman basically killing the junior she knew. Plus she promised to Nancy1 in the ovas that she would take care of nancy so that's what she's doing. I seriously doubt Yomiko would have gotten Junior and Nancy out of there without hurting anyone. When 2 opposing forces are set against each other one is going to get a bloody nose. And I doubt Joker would have any qualms about hurting as many innocents as needed to achieve his goal.

MalrocK

03-08-2005, 12:38 PM

I imagine that two paper masters having sex would feature a lot of kinky paper-play /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif

tuffy

03-08-2005, 12:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
I imagine that two paper masters having sex would feature a lot of kinky paper-play /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
One can only imagine what might happen between the sheets.

MalrocK

03-08-2005, 12:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
tuffy said:
[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
I imagine that two paper masters having sex would feature a lot of kinky paper-play /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
One can only imagine what might happen between the sheets.

[/ QUOTE ]

*Zing* /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

ooga

03-08-2005, 12:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
I imagine that two paper masters having sex would feature a lot of kinky paper-play /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

And a lot of nasty paper-cuts! /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

evilarrex

03-08-2005, 01:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ooga said:
[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
I imagine that two paper masters having sex would feature a lot of kinky paper-play /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

And a lot of nasty paper-cuts! /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You lot have terribly vivid imaginations! /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

03-08-2005, 03:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
wanfu2k1 said:
No they are both culpable but I think people who have watched the ovas realize that Yomiko would never willingly do something like burn down the library. We've all seen her risk her own life trying to save 1 book. Someone must have caused her to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't necessarily agree with the word "caused", but I agree that her emotionally-heightened state affected her judgment-making process enough that she did things that were out of character for her. That doesn't mean that she shouldn't bear some of the blame, however. Of course, she has taken the burden on herself for what happened.

[ QUOTE ]
wanfu2k1 said:
I don't agree it was a conscious decision by Yomiko to burn down the Library but even if it was her actions were justifiable. She already knew Junior was going to become the body for gentleman basically killing the junior she knew. Plus she promised to Nancy1 in the ovas that she would take care of nancy so that's what she's doing. I seriously doubt Yomiko would have gotten Junior and Nancy out of there without hurting anyone. When 2 opposing forces are set against each other one is going to get a bloody nose. And I doubt Joker would have any qualms about hurting as many innocents as needed to achieve his goal.

[/ QUOTE ]

See, I'm totally with your post up to that point I emphasized. First of all, I should note that I don't believe that she intentionally started the fire--but that she was (at least partially) releasing her powers of her own knowledge--and that the fire was caused by that bad decision, combined with her inability to control herself emotionally. As to the emphasized point, I know it is the right thing for her to do to try and protect Nancy and Junior. But is it right to put even more innocents in harms way in order to protect those two? Is it moral and just and good to potentially sacrifice the lives of hundreds for the lives of two? I don't think so, because I don't think that the lives of those two are more important than hundreds of others.

wanfu2k1

03-08-2005, 06:12 PM

I say it's all perspective, are those people working at the library really innocent? They are working for an organization that is planning to kill the personality of a child just so they can implant their dead leaders personality into him.

Nuriko

03-08-2005, 08:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
TheOnionPrince said:

See, I'm totally with your post up to that point I emphasized. First of all, I should note that I don't believe that she intentionally started the fire--but that she was (at least partially) releasing her powers of her own knowledge--and that the fire was caused by that bad decision, combined with her inability to control herself emotionally. As to the emphasized point, I know it is the right thing for her to do to try and protect Nancy and Junior. But is it right to put even more innocents in harms way in order to protect those two? Is it moral and just and good to potentially sacrifice the lives of hundreds for the lives of two? I don't think so, because I don't think that the lives of those two are more important than hundreds of others.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was an accident. If you agree it was the right thing to do, then you would of done it. Who the hell knows that it would cause a fire? No one. She didn't plan to take down innocent lives. She just wanted to create a diversion so that she can escape with the book, giving some hope for Junior's future. I don't think anyone foresee that the paper would cut the wire and cause a fire, it was simply an accident, thus I place no blame on her.

If anything, I look for the cause, JOKER!

03-09-2005, 05:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
wanfu2k1 said:
I say it's all perspective, are those people working at the library really innocent? They are working for an organization that is planning to kill the personality of a child just so they can implant their dead leaders personality into him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure everyone in that building were employees? I may be misunderstanding, but I assumed that it had visitors as well that had nothing to do with that scheme.

But even so, even most of the employees didn't know all that went on behind the scenes so I don't think their tangential relationship to the British Library should warrant a death sentence.

If you use the logic of everyone involved with the British Library should die, shouldn't that include Yomiko since she has had more direct involvement in this case than many of the other people at the Library?

03-09-2005, 05:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:

It was an accident. If you agree it was the right thing to do, then you would of done it. Who the hell knows that it would cause a fire? No one. She didn't plan to take down innocent lives. She just wanted to create a diversion so that she can escape with the book, giving some hope for Junior's future. I don't think anyone foresee that the paper would cut the wire and cause a fire, it was simply an accident, thus I place no blame on her.

If anything, I look for the cause, JOKER!

[/ QUOTE ]

So now what we're talking about is intent. We agree that Yomiko did not INTEND to burn down the library through the use of her power. In a courtroom that might be the difference between first-degree murder and manslaughter, but you don't get off scot-free just because you didn't intend to do it. But Yomiko actually used the paper powers actually started a fire, intentional or not, so it is ridiculous to say that she should be given no blame. Heck, you could argue that Joker had much less to do with it, since all he does is provide her with information. He never forced her to do anything.

But honestly, I'm going to give up, because I just think a lot of the people who don't want Yomiko to shoulder any of the blame are doing so because they want things to be nice and neat, where Yomiko is totally pure and good and Wendy and Joker are the very embodiment of evil. Since I refuse to see that and am unwilling to let anyone off the hook for their actions, it's never going to be quite so neat in my mind. I think it basically comes down to the fact that people are willing to give Yomiko a free pass because they like her, simple as that. I would even argue that people would do that even if Joker and Yomiko did the exact same thing, because ultimately people will justify the actions of the people they like.

But like I said, I'm done with this discussion unless unrelated topics come up. If you want to continue, feel free to do so via PM.

Nuriko

03-09-2005, 09:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
TheOnionPrince said:

So now what we're talking about is intent. We agree that Yomiko did not INTEND to burn down the library through the use of her power. In a courtroom that might be the difference between first-degree murder and manslaughter, but you don't get off scot-free just because you didn't intend to do it. But Yomiko actually used the paper powers actually started a fire, intentional or not, so it is ridiculous to say that she should be given no blame. Heck, you could argue that Joker had much less to do with it, since all he does is provide her with information. He never forced her to do anything.

But honestly, I'm going to give up, because I just think a lot of the people who don't want Yomiko to shoulder any of the blame are doing so because they want things to be nice and neat, where Yomiko is totally pure and good and Wendy and Joker are the very embodiment of evil. Since I refuse to see that and am unwilling to let anyone off the hook for their actions, it's never going to be quite so neat in my mind. I think it basically comes down to the fact that people are willing to give Yomiko a free pass because they like her, simple as that. I would even argue that people would do that even if Joker and Yomiko did the exact same thing, because ultimately people will justify the actions of the people they like.

But like I said, I'm done with this discussion unless unrelated topics come up. If you want to continue, feel free to do so via PM.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think there is a need for PM, we are disscussing the content of this disk and it should belong here unless someone tells me otherwise. This IS the thread for it, I assume.

Whether one wants to say that she is at fault or not, it's subjective, there's no right or wrong answer unless you actually bring this to court and it would still be ruled by a majority of opinions by people, just like you and me now.

Even though Joker didn't do anything physically himself, that is irrelevant in this case imo. It's like if someone points a gun at my wife and tells me to rob a bank, then chances are I'll let her die, jk but say I do rob a bank. Sure, I committed the crime but why should I be blamed? I'm being forced or threatened here. I think it's a similar situation here, sure Joker didn't do anything, but it was a threat or a direct attack against the things that Yomiko values (human lives, in this case it would be Junior's life). And when one feels that they are threatened, you'll do things that you normally won't.

I think I also expressed my opinion clearly, but feel free to contradict even though I think we covered most if not all the basics, lol It's a civil debate based on personal beliefs, we're not here to convince one another to comform with our beliefs, but just supporting it.

wanfu2k1

03-09-2005, 11:47 AM

Yeah, we aren't really trying to change your mind, well ok maybe a little /images/graemlins/wink.gif but more we are trying to justify why we believe Yomiko can't be blamed for the burning of the library. As long as things remain civil we can argue all we want, this is a discussion forum afterall /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Innotech

03-09-2005, 10:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
wanfu2k1 said:
Yeah, we aren't really trying to change your mind, well ok maybe a little /images/graemlins/wink.gif but more we are trying to justify why we believe Yomiko can't be blamed for the burning of the library. As long as things remain civil we can argue all we want, this is a discussion forum afterall /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yomiko is too cute to blame for this. End of discussion /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Beagle-san

03-12-2005, 03:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
[ QUOTE ]
EmptyWallet said:
Is it just me or am I reading this wrong.

From what I took away from these episodes, the burning of the British Library was an unintended side-effect of Yomiko trying to escape from Joker. Especially after he made clear what his future plans were.

[/ QUOTE ]

It went like this.

Joker shows Yomiko what happened to Donny.

Yomiko goes nuts, her paper powers firing off randomly

Paper sparks off of a cut power cord, fire starts.

It was not intentional on her part.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are important stages that are missed here. It should more accurately read:

Yomiko pleads with Joker about Junior (Her tone is essentially, "Say it ain't so, Shoeless Joe!"}. Pat yourself on the back if you got the tie-in to the Black Sox scandal.

Joker ridicules Yomiko's loyalty to the original Nancy. Her faith in him is crushed, and Junior is doomed.

Joker's goons come in and restrain Yomiko. Clearly, bad things are going to happen to Yomiko, which is confirmed when,

Joker shows Yomiko what happened to Donny.

Yomiko goes nuts, her paper powers firing off randomly

Paper sparks off of a cut power cord, fire starts.

It was not intentional on her part.

Leastways, that's my recollection.

So, what we have here is a case where Yomiko reacts in self-defense.

There's no question in my mind that she absolutely snapped due to the circumstances, but it she was acting in self-defense.

03-12-2005, 04:45 AM

You know what, I swore I was done with this argument, but I just want to say something as a way of respectfully disagreeing with the people who have responded to me and being done with it. This argument has worn me out mentally and since I feel a little (ok, a lot) ganged up on and in a tiny minority in terms of this show. In addition, since I've gotten overly involved in the discussion and have felt vehement disagreement with some of the posters it is starting to color my perceptions of the show negatively, and I like it too much to do that (yes, I know that sounds silly, but if I'm arguing about something, no matter how inane, I tend to go a little bit overboard--thus my reason for usually staying out of arguments).

I believe that ultimately, this isn't an argument I'm ever going to convince people of (and vice versa), because what were talking about are concepts like "intent", "level of saneness", "degree of appropriate self-defense", "who is to blame" and other such ideas. All of these have no concrete, quantifiable answers to them. Even if we were to know the exact thoughts and reasoning of every character it may not be possible. It is logically possible to believe that Yomiko burnt down the library on purpose and still blame it on Joker because of what he said to her, because of where you choose to lay the blame. Where you fall on many of these notions depends on many things, including how much you like the characters involved, just like in real life. We usually blame the one we dislike more, all other things being equal. Since I don't dislike Yomiko but am not particularly a fanboy of the original OVA's, my ability to lay some blame at her feet may be a little easier. I think it's because of the evidence involved (as does everyone else), but just like everyone else I have my own particular lens through which I see things which distorts and contorts it in particular ways.

So I'm going to agree to disagree with seemingly everyone other person who has watched this show and pick the gauntlet back up, thank you very much.