AoD Review: Pretear Vol. #1

[Chris Beveridge]

Review (http://www.animeondvd.com/reviews2/disc_reviews/2562.php)

[ QUOTE ]
ADV doesn't have a large number of shoujo titles in its catalog, and even fewer magical girl titles, so I was quite interested in this title when it first premiered. ADV has done a fine job with it, and the English dub is excellent. Luci Christian is perfectly cast as Himeno, being spunky and cheerful, but with a darker edge to her that shows when Himeno struggles with her new situation, both at home and as the Pretear. Illich Guardiola's Hayate is cold and brooding. He has a smooth delivery that isn't too suave, and there is enough pain to hint there is more going on than he's letting on. Chris Patton plays the calm, friendly and very kind Sasame with a great deal of maturity, something we don't get to hear enough from him. The real highlight of the show is Mandy Clark as Mawata. It is clear she is still mourning the passing of her late father, and she hides her depression with an almost impenetrable wall of icy coldness. Even so, the screen fairly crackles with her barely supressed anger and pain when she's on camera. That depression is the core of this show, as several characters struggle to deal with it in different ways. The fact that much of the plot is fairly predictable doesn't detract too much from how well made the show is. Yes, Hayate and Himeno constantly fight, which is why they're the main romantic couple in the show. Yes, the three Knights who are still just children are going to cause trouble. But coming from Junichi Sato, you know there is more under the surface which will surface soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Jimmie M]

At last, a review of Pretear! I finished this series a couple of months ago & found it to be quite good. A B+ & a positive vote from me. Good job on the review, Mike! /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[MalrocK]

It's been about a year since I watched vol. 1 but I remember loving it /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif. Actually, I think I'll rewatch it tonight

[Nosredna]

A and postive from me, I liked this show a lot and I'm glad it's finally getting the full review treatment (at least I hope it is). Although it looks like Mike didn't enjoy it as much as Andrew did.

[populuxe]

[ QUOTE ]
Nosredna said:
A and postive from me, I liked this show a lot and I'm glad it's finally getting the full review treatment (at least I hope it is). Although it looks like Mike didn't enjoy it as much as Andrew did.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will be reviewing all four volumes. This volume was quite good, and I enjoyed it, but I remembered being slightly underwhelmed by the rather predictable nature of the story when it came out. I was very impressed by the direction volumes 3 and 4 went, so I can assure you my reviews of those two volumes will reflect that.

[DanielJr]

Pretear is actually the only magical girl anime I like.

[Nylock]

I had to vote based on memory from way back, but I thought Pretear was a great series that got better as it went on. I was hoping this would encourage ADV to pick up other magical girl shows, like Full Moon wo Sagashite, but they seem to be having difficulty with shoujo titles.

[ic14]

heh, so the UK release (from last year) got reviewed beofre the US release.

Anyway i really enjoyed the series as a whole, although i cant really remember what i thought of the first disc now /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[gnikdrazil]

C- I've only been exposed to the dubbed version of Pretear from Anime on Demand, and I just couldn't get into the show. The plot line is pretty basic for a magical girl show, but the English acting just got on my nerves. I would have probably considered it to B ranking if I hadn't watched it on TV.

[Fluffy]

Thought the show was fair overall. I like the character designs and the main premise (as I understood it).

I really wish Pretear was longer...I felt the ending was rushed and lacked the emotional push it could have had if it had only been flushed out a bit more (story wise). I never fell into the grips of any one character’s plight long enough to wish the best (or worse) for them.

I think a show of this length needs to hit the extremes quickly...or face a life of uncertainty in the Used bins.

[MalrocK]

[ QUOTE ]
Flood said:
I really wish Pretear was longer...I felt the ending was rushed and lacked the emotional push it could have had if it had only been flushed out a bit more (story wise).

[/ QUOTE ]

I was disappointed with the ending also <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>it would have had a much greater emotional impact if Himeno would have stayed dead. Then again, if that happened I guess it wouldn't be the "New Legend of Snow White"</span>/images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[battra92]

[ QUOTE ]
Flood said:
I think a show of this length needs to hit the extremes quickly...or face a life of uncertainty in the Used bins.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, I haven't finished this series simply because it does seem like a watch-once then discard/sell series. But we'll see. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Now I suppose I should finish the first disc. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
n1bbler said:
I've only been exposed to the dubbed version of Pretear from Anime on Demand

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't take this the wrong way but this points out something that puzzles me on these polls as I've been seeing more of this. How can one "rate the content of this volume?" if you haven't actually SEEN the content of that volume? I can sorta see how someone can rate how they "feel about this release overall?" without seeing it but even there it's pushing it. Just something I've pondered of late as I see more and more people "rate the content of this volume" who haven't even seen the volume in question.

[Suwako Moriya]

I had to go with a B+ and Positive in terms of this volume. This is definitely a pretty nice series over all.

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
[ QUOTE ]
n1bbler said:
I've only been exposed to the dubbed version of Pretear from Anime on Demand

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't take this the wrong way but this points out something that puzzles me on these polls as I've been seeing more of this. How can one "rate the content of this volume?" if you haven't actually SEEN the content of that volume? I can sorta see how someone can rate how they "feel about this release overall?" without seeing it but even there it's pushing it. Just something I've pondered of late as I see more and more people "rate the content of this volume" who haven't even seen the volume in question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean both versions? Because his post seems to suggest he did see the content, albeit in a different form than watching the DVD itself. It could be seen as a little unfair because he has not viewed the Japanese language track which may have sat better with him, but unless the content was substantially changed from the version on TAN, I don't see the problem. I've rated content on things I've viewed previously before having the volume in hand numerous times because I already know what's on there. I wouldn't comment on the technical aspect, as I would have no idea, but giving a content score seems fine to me.

In my mind, that was one of the pros of switching to a graded content and separated release scale (overall) for these review threads. *shrugs*

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
ChristianLF said:
Do you mean both versions? Because his post seems to suggest he did see the content, albeit in a different form than watching the DVD itself. It could be seen as a little unfair because he has not viewed the Japanese language track which may have sat better with him, but unless the content was substantially changed from the version on TAN, I don't see the problem. I've rated content on things I've viewed previously before having the volume in hand numerous times because I already know what's on there. I wouldn't comment on the technical aspect, as I would have no idea, but giving a content score seems fine to me.

In my mind, that was one of the pros of switching to a graded content and separated release scale (overall) for these review threads. *shrugs*

[/ QUOTE ]

No I mean the "contents of this volume" as it says. There is more to the "contents" of the volume than what's shown on TV. Which is really my point, people are asked to rate the volume itself but I've seen many that do so based on fansubs or other means, ie. not having actually seen that release. Most times people are rating the release when it hasn't even been released yet. Now the poster above has at least seen the episodes if none of the other content of the volume so that's a big step above some people. /images/graemlins/happy.gif No big deal really, just seems to stick out to me. I never rate the release if I haven't actually seen the release even if I've seen the episodes on TV but that's just me. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
No I mean the "contents of this volume" as it says. There is more to the "contents" of the volume than what's shown on TV. Which is really my point, people are asked to rate the volume itself but I've seen many that do so based on fansubs or other means, ie. not having actually seen that release. Most times people are rating the release when it hasn't even been released yet. Now the poster above has at least seen the episodes if none of the other content of the volume so that's a big step above some people. /images/graemlins/happy.gif No big deal really, just seems to stick out to me. I never rate the release if I haven't actually seen the release even if I've seen the episodes on TV but that's just me. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, my understanding of the rating system is that the content portion specifically refers to the show itself, not the extras and the technical aspect/release style, which is the other poll option. This has been discussed before in the thread that led to the change, and it mirrors Chris' reviewing format (which he talks about the show itself under "content"). /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[Suwako Moriya]

It's a mixed bag. If someone doesn't like a serie based on what they saw on tv, fansub or whatever. They are not exactly going to buy it to see how the DVD is. Sure the DVD version has stuff not on the fansub version. In my experience through unless I already like a series such things are not going to make me care. So on one hand you could say the person can't really rate the contents, but who in their mind is going to buy a volume to something he has no interest in just to give it a C- and etc? Even renting can be quite a bit of money for some, but ah well.

Another problem you have is even among series people want, they can't rush out to get everything. So some people probably feel like voting while the topic is still fresh and not searching for it weeks later when it's dead. In general anime constantly competes against itself. Ie a person puts off one series to get another. Heck I'm already planning to put off some series for the sake of certain series. And those have yet to be licensed, but I already have given them R1 priority. So it may be awhile before someone gets a series. Obviously since I have all four volumes of Pretear, it was one of the series that won the competition. Well at least in my case, but ah well.

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
ChristianLF said:
Actually, my understanding of the rating system is that the content portion specifically refers to the show itself, not the extras and the technical aspect, which is the other poll option. This has been discussed before in the thread that led to the change, and it mirrors Chris' reviewing format (which he talks about the show itself under "content"). /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know all that but I'm not talking about Chris' reviews and his ratings, I'm talking about the polls at the top of the thread. They don't break things down into the various catagories. Not talking about technical aspect and all that. Just the contents of the release. Now maybe there was a thread somewhere that said in this case "contents of this release" only refers to the episodes (I never saw such thread myself so I can't say /images/graemlins/happy.gif ) in which case Chris should reword his poll but as the case may be, I still can't bring myself to "rate the contents of this release" if I haven't actually seen that specific release. Again, as I said, it's no big deal, just stating my personal point of view.

[Suwako Moriya]

Speaking of rating the contents of the release as in the episodes. Sometimes I wonder if people make often rate the volume of a series based on the entire series rather than just the episodes that are on the volume. Just something to consider.

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
Yes, I know all that but I'm not talking about Chris' reviews and his ratings, I'm talking about the polls at the top of the thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

The poll at the top of the thread is the result of a feedback thread, where we wanted to separate the actual show (content) from the technical aspects, release style, extras, etc.

[ QUOTE ]
Now maybe there was a thread somewhere that said in this case "contents of this release" only refers to the episodes (I never saw such thread myself so I can't say /images/graemlins/happy.gif ) in which case Chris should reword his poll but as the case may be, I still can't bring myself to "rate the contents of this release" if I haven't actually seen that specific release.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the confusion is over the word "content." Unless the DVD contains additional footage or is otherwise substantially different from the other available viewing options, I'd have to say it's perfectly fine in my estimation. It's really not a big deal to me, either, but I think you're misunderstanding the initial poll or being overly concerned with the semantics of the question.

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
Shiho Munakata said:
It's a mixed bag. If someone doesn't like a serie based on what they saw on tv, fansub or whatever. They are not exactly going to buy it to see how the DVD is.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's totally understandable (note I never said they had to go out and buy something they don't care for), but then can they honestly rate "this release"? I personally can't. Which is why as I've seen the Ghibli movies I haven't actually seen this current release so I can't bring myself to rate the release despite what I might think of the show itself.

[ QUOTE ]

Heck I'm already planning to put off some series for the sake of certain series. And those have yet to be licensed, but I already have given them R1 priority. So it may be awhile before someone gets a series. Obviously since I have all four volumes of Pretear, it was one of the series that won the competition. Well at least in my case, but ah well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that's interesting to me. You put off buying a currently released R1 series for something that hasn't been licensed (or announced in all probablity)? Why put it off if you have no idea when the hoped for release my be announced for R1? I'm curious.

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
ChristianLF said:
The poll at the top of the thread is the result of a feedback thread, where we wanted to separate the actual show (content) from the technical aspects, release style, extras, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

It was my understanding (wrong or right) that the poll originally popped up because people didn't agree with Chris' ratings. Now that's cool, I think it's great to have it so we can see where the title falls overall.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the confusion is over the word "content." Unless the DVD contains additional footage or is otherwise substantially different from the other available viewing options, I'd have to say it's perfectly fine in my estimation. It's really not a big deal to me, either, but I think you're misunderstanding the initial poll or being overly concerned with the semantics of the question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why I said the poll question could be stated better if that is the intent. In my experience though, I've found many times that watching something on TV gives me a completely different feel for a show than after I get the DVD and watch it. Presentation on TV can be very different than presentation on a DVD and thus it sometimes affects my rating for a show. Thus I still can't bring myself to rate a disc I haven't actually seen.

Edit: I guess this fits in with the positive, neutral, negative feeling for the release overall question.

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
Shiho Munakata said:
Speaking of rating the contents of the release as in the episodes. Sometimes I wonder if people make often rate the volume of a series based on the entire series rather than just the episodes that are on the volume. Just something to consider.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure there is plenty of that going on as well.

[ic14]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shiho Munakata said:
Speaking of rating the contents of the release as in the episodes. Sometimes I wonder if people make often rate the volume of a series based on the entire series rather than just the episodes that are on the volume. Just something to consider.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sure there is plenty of that going on as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is why i havent voted, since i cant remember what happened in the first volume /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
It was my understanding (wrong or right) that the poll originally popped up because people didn't agree with Chris' ratings. Now that's cool, I think it's great to have it so we can see where the title falls overall.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the thread I was referring to. (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=812783&amp;page=1&amp;view=collap sed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;vc=1)

[ QUOTE ]

Which is why I said the poll question could be stated better if that is the intent. In my experience though, I've found many times that watching something on TV gives me a completely different feel for a show than after I get the DVD and watch it. Presentation on TV can be very different than presentation on a DVD and thus it sometimes affects my rating for a show. Thus I still can't bring myself to rate a disc I haven't actually seen.

Edit: I guess this fits in with the positive, neutral, negative feeling for the release overall question.


[/ QUOTE ]

I respect your viewpoint, which is why it's nice if people are specific when they respond to these threads, instead of just blankly stating what they voted, but in the end, it's a personal preference. FWIW, most of the time, I do in fact rate after watching the volume, especially so it's fresh in my mind, but as the purpose of these threads is to give interested buyers an idea of the show and how we feel about it, I feel my input could be useful, especially in an early review where preorders could still be applicable. To each their own, though. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

edit: I should note that I also understand these threads house discussion for the volume content, release style, etc, but I was mainly referring to the grading aspect of it, since that seems to be the most common form of response here.

[guyver83]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
[ QUOTE ]
ChristianLF said:
The poll at the top of the thread is the result of a feedback thread, where we wanted to separate the actual show (content) from the technical aspects, release style, extras, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

It was my understanding (wrong or right) that the poll originally popped up because people didn't agree with Chris' ratings. Now that's cool, I think it's great to have it so we can see where the title falls overall.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the confusion is over the word "content." Unless the DVD contains additional footage or is otherwise substantially different from the other available viewing options, I'd have to say it's perfectly fine in my estimation. It's really not a big deal to me, either, but I think you're misunderstanding the initial poll or being overly concerned with the semantics of the question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why I said the poll question could be stated better if that is the intent. In my experience though, I've found many times that watching something on TV gives me a completely different feel for a show than after I get the DVD and watch it. Presentation on TV can be very different than presentation on a DVD and thus it sometimes affects my rating for a show. Thus I still can't bring myself to rate a disc I haven't actually seen.

Edit: I guess this fits in with the positive, neutral, negative feeling for the release overall question.


[/ QUOTE ]


You two girls done yet? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
guyver83 said:
You two girls done yet? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for your wonderful and on topic input to our discussion. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[wanfu2k1]

Man it's been a while since I saw Pretear but I do remember enjoying it so it get's a postitive from me /images/graemlins/happy.gif Man it's wierd seeing this thread, I thought ADV might have did a re-release of pretear, I'm so used to seeing Chris do advance reviews /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[SpoilerHappy]

[ QUOTE ]
martialstax said:
I will be reviewing all four volumes. This volume was quite good, and I enjoyed it, but I remembered being slightly underwhelmed by the rather predictable nature of the story when it came out. I was very impressed by the direction volumes 3 and 4 went, so I can assure you my reviews of those two volumes will reflect that.

[/ QUOTE ]

B+ and positive from me for pretty much the same reasons -- I was biased to like the show from the start, but thought it got off to a "good" but not "stunning" beginning. My opinion went up significantly with a later episode - <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>ep. 7 if I remember correctly, where the history of the Disaster Queen is covered</span>. I also love the opening song and animation. Having seen a lot of transformation sequences over the years, I didn't find this one that "orgasmic" but remember multiple people commenting on it when Pretear first came out - maybe I've developed an immunity....

[SpoilerHappy]

[ QUOTE ]
Malrock said:
I was disappointed with the ending also <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>it would have had a much greater emotional impact if Himeno would have stayed dead. Then again, if that happened I guess it wouldn't be the "New Legend of Snow White"</span>/images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you dare go spoil <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>my happy ending - scared the crap out of me when she "died" and I even knew what was coming</span>!!! /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
Now that's interesting to me. You put off buying a currently released R1 series for something that hasn't been licensed (or announced in all probablity)? Why put it off if you have no idea when the hoped for release my be announced for R1? I'm curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I should clear something up. It's not that I'd suddenly stop buying anime just because of an unlicensed series. Let's use My HiME as an example. I have plans to collect it after the series I'm currently collecting are finished. Now one of two things will happen. First is My HiME will be licensed. If so then since it has already won out, I'm going for it. However if it is not licensed at the time, I'll then look at the other series I want that are licensed at the time and then decide which one to collect.

Of course I suppose there are other complications. Something could be announced in say May 2005. And then the first volume may be announced to come out say Jan 2006. In that case while the said series may be next in line it will be several months before volume 1 comes out. Because of that I should instead go after a different series I want that is already out anyway. However once it's time for volume 1 to come out. Then all bets are off. Hopefully that makes a lot more sense.

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
IanC said:Which is why i havent voted, since i cant remember what happened in the first volume /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I have some what of an idea on what happened in the first volume and my over all enjoyment of it. Hence I rated it as B+. Even through I feel the series is an A- series over all or so, but ah well.

[LimePie]

A &amp; Positive

I didn't give Volume 1 an A+ because later volumes are better, and I'd need a higher score for them. Pretear is a Junichi Satou magical girl show, as such I love it (in case you didn't know, he also directed Ojamajo Doremi. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif )

[Ingraman]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:

No I mean the "contents of this volume" as it says. There is more to the "contents" of the volume than what's shown on TV. Which is really my point, people are asked to rate the volume itself but I've seen many that do so based on fansubs or other means, ie. not having actually seen that release.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've given ratings for shows after only having viewed the episodes in one language. I'd probably never give ratings if I had to listen to all languages, any commentaries, and all of the extras that might be on a DVD. I find it hard to get myself to sit through dub-related extras and commentaries on DVDs from ADV, Geneon, etc., because I don't usually listen to the dubs, and I've skipped a few Japanese-related extras, too (the latter because I forget that they're there, usually)...

[Yoda47]

Good show, I liked it.

One thing that bothers me about any anime with transforamtion scenes. Why do the bad guys wait for them to transform? If I were a bad guy, I'd wait for them to start their 5 min transformation sequence, walk up to them as they were spinning around with their eyes shut, and club them.

... anyway... good show, likable characters, and a good ending too.

I gave this volume an A, since I liked the episodes in this volume (I liked the overall show too), and the packaging was beautiful.

However, when volume 2 is reviewed, the grade will drop a few notches since the release was a bit flawed with a small video glitch (pixelation during the credit roll in one episode), a minor subtitle glitch during the opening theme in one episode, and a packaging error (they placed the wrong episode titles on the backcover).

Overall, I was pleased with Pretear's release, except for volume 2 and I was a litle bit disappointed that ADV decided to reuse the Sasame image used for volume 1 for the box. They could have used the Hayate cover that the R2 used and was used as a wallpaper image on ADV's site. Oh well, what's done is done...

[Pelianth]

[ QUOTE ]
Yoda47 said:
Good show, I liked it.

One thing that bothers me about any anime with transforamtion scenes. Why do the bad guys wait for them to transform? If I were a bad guy, I'd wait for them to start their 5 min transformation sequence, walk up to them as they were spinning around with their eyes shut, and club them.

... anyway... good show, likable characters, and a good ending too.

[/ QUOTE ]

The transformation sequences don't really take minutes. Time dialation.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
Please don't take this the wrong way but this points out something that puzzles me on these polls as I've been seeing more of this. How can one "rate the content of this volume?" if you haven't actually SEEN the content of that volume? I can sorta see how someone can rate how they "feel about this release overall?" without seeing it but even there it's pushing it. Just something I've pondered of late as I see more and more people "rate the content of this volume" who haven't even seen the volume in question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the debate going on in forum feedback brought me here.

It's pretty simple: "content" for me = the story, the central core of the release itself. This you can vote on no matter what form you've seen it in, whether dubbed (as long as its uncut and even then it depends on how badly, might be able to get away with less) on TV, on fansub, in raw Japanese, whatever. Every one of those provides a perfectly legitimate basis for voting on the content.

The very fact that we have 2 questions and that the second is the broader one means I look at the second as "and everything else."

That's where I'll, say, neg or neutral the *release* (if theres a bad glitch, or poor translation, or crappy price, etc) even if I'm enthusiastically giving a positive to the content.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
That's totally understandable (note I never said they had to go out and buy something they don't care for), but then can they honestly rate "this release"? I personally can't. Which is why as I've seen the Ghibli movies I haven't actually seen this current release so I can't bring myself to rate the release despite what I might think of the show itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, you'd be perfectly capable of rating the CONTENT, just not the R1 release =P

[ QUOTE ]
Now that's interesting to me. You put off buying a currently released R1 series for something that hasn't been licensed (or announced in all probablity)? Why put it off if you have no idea when the hoped for release my be announced for R1? I'm curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do it too. It's not tough. Why? Because the show will very likely get licensed. Hey DLW, go license Mai:HiME for me and you got my money =P I'd love ya for it. I can work Mai:HiME into my R1 release plans because it WILL be licensed. It's hardly even a question. At the very least, the chance is extremely high.

So, it doesn'y seem at all odd to me that I've been putting off, say, Kenshin because I'm waiting for the inevitable release of Mai:HiME, or Gankutsuou, or Utakata, or BECK, or Kannazuki no Miko (BWT thats a none-too-subtle hint on some shows I'd like you to license, though Gankutsuou is probably already going to Geneon =P).

Now, if someone is putting, say, Kanon into their buying plans, then yeah, they're probably going to be disappointed. But generally speaking, it's nothing strange, or irrational, or misguided.

((once again -- LICENSE MAI:HIME! =P))

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
ChristianLF said:
but as the purpose of these threads is to give interested buyers an idea of the show and how we feel about it, I feel my input could be useful, especially in an early review where preorders could still be applicable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very much agreed. If I've already seen it, my vote is worth far more as soon as the review goes up, than it is two months from now when I finally work through the backlog to rewatch the show (or watch for the first time on DVD), when the thread is on page 50,000 and nobody gives a damn anymore =P

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
SuzakuSeikun said:
However, when volume 2 is reviewed, the grade will drop a few notches since the release was a bit flawed with a small video glitch (pixelation during the credit roll in one episode), a minor subtitle glitch during the opening theme in one episode, and a packaging error (they placed the wrong episode titles on the backcover).


[/ QUOTE ]

That's interesting, given what everyone else has said about my question earlier in the thread, the grade isn't about tech issues like those, just the content of the episodes. The other question is about the tech issues. What this tells me is that the poll is poorly worded as people seem to have different ideas as to what it refers to and what affects the grade. Some count tech issues as above, some only the episode and some all the content on the disc.

[Nosredna]

[ QUOTE ]
martialstax said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nosredna said:
A and postive from me, I liked this show a lot and I'm glad it's finally getting the full review treatment (at least I hope it is). Although it looks like Mike didn't enjoy it as much as Andrew did.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will be reviewing all four volumes. This volume was quite good, and I enjoyed it, but I remembered being slightly underwhelmed by the rather predictable nature of the story when it came out. I was very impressed by the direction volumes 3 and 4 went, so I can assure you my reviews of those two volumes will reflect that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh I didn't realize that this was you /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif. I'm glad to see you'll be reviewing all the volumes though. Isn't it tough to review a show you've already watched?

[battra92]

[ QUOTE ]
Pelianth said:
[ QUOTE ]
Yoda47 said:
Good show, I liked it.

One thing that bothers me about any anime with transforamtion scenes. Why do the bad guys wait for them to transform? If I were a bad guy, I'd wait for them to start their 5 min transformation sequence, walk up to them as they were spinning around with their eyes shut, and club them.

... anyway... good show, likable characters, and a good ending too.

[/ QUOTE ]

The transformation sequences don't really take minutes. Time dialation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, and they give the animators time to pad a minute or two of the runtime. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Nylock]

[ QUOTE ]
Battra92 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Pelianth said:
[ QUOTE ]
Yoda47 said:
One thing that bothers me about any anime with transforamtion scenes. Why do the bad guys wait for them to transform? If I were a bad guy, I'd wait for them to start their 5 min transformation sequence, walk up to them as they were spinning around with their eyes shut, and club them.


[/ QUOTE ]

The transformation sequences don't really take minutes. Time dialation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly, and they give the animators time to pad a minute or two of the runtime. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

if you want to see a case where all that stuff does get interrupted you need to step outside of anime and play Disgaea (PS2 game). It takes the piss out of all these transformation sequences and sentai team special moves.

[ic14]

[ QUOTE ]
SuzakuSeikun said:
and a packaging error (they placed the wrong episode titles on the backcover).

[/ QUOTE ]
hmm, as far as i can remember, the UK version fixed that error.

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
[ QUOTE ]
SuzakuSeikun said:
However, when volume 2 is reviewed, the grade will drop a few notches since the release was a bit flawed with a small video glitch (pixelation during the credit roll in one episode), a minor subtitle glitch during the opening theme in one episode, and a packaging error (they placed the wrong episode titles on the backcover).


[/ QUOTE ]

That's interesting, given what everyone else has said about my question earlier in the thread, the grade isn't about tech issues like those, just the content of the episodes. The other question is about the tech issues. What this tells me is that the poll is poorly worded as people seem to have different ideas as to what it refers to and what affects the grade. Some count tech issues as above, some only the episode and some all the content on the disc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I think the content is the basis for the grade, and then deductions are taken only if there were tech issues. So for me, volume 2 would start with an A or A+, and then I'll probably bump the grade down to an A- or B+ because of the technical flaws. You would get a boost if the extras were good, but since I'm neutral for the extras on Pretear, no plus is given. A perfect technical release doesn't get a boost because that is what should be expected in the first place (though I do commend companies that continually release problem-free releases). Well, that's how I decided on my grading. But I do agree that the poll can have different meanings for different people.

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
SuzakuSeikun said:
Well, I think the content is the basis for the grade, and then deductions are taken only if there were tech issues. So for me, volume 2 would start with an A or A+, and then I'll probably bump the grade down to an A- or B+ because of the technical flaws. You would get a boost if the extras were good, but since I'm neutral for the extras on Pretear, no plus is given. A perfect technical release doesn't get a boost because that is what should be expected in the first place (though I do commend companies that continually release problem-free releases). Well, that's how I decided on my grading. But I do agree that the poll can have different meanings for different people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now see that's pretty much how I see it and grade in the poll. Which is why I thought it odd to see people rate a release they hadn't actually seen. But others do it differently which now tells me since the "content" is in dispute means the rating has little real meaning to me. In other words, it doesn't exactly help me decide on a give release. Not that any of this is really that big a deal. Just getting a feel for things and seeing how everyone else views it.

[Fluffy]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
===
Not that any of this is really that big a deal. Just getting a feel for things and seeing how everyone else views it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your original question was valid. You made me think more about the process and my reasons for vote as well.

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
Flood said:
I think your original question was valid. You made me think more about the process and my reasons for vote as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

WOOT! If I can make one person think a day... I'll still be answering silly questions about releases... /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[EmperorBrandon]

It's been a while since I've seen Pretear, so I need to give it a rewatch sometime soon. I was really enthusiastic about the series when it first came out, but haven't had much urge to rewatch recently. Still an enjoyable series, though, and one that made me a Luci Christian fan (combined with GALS!). I gave Vol. 1 content an "A-" and the release a positive.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
But others do it differently which now tells me since the "content" is in dispute means the rating has little real meaning to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, most people seem to favor the "content of the show, i.e. the story/characters/etc" definition. So, in one sense, no, you don't need to care about what what people vote for that. The quality of the show itself is not ADV's responsibility, and they cannot change it for better or worse (short of a cutting footage, which would leave viewers unable to accurately vote). The only thing it might tell you is "do viewers like this kind of show?" but even that is far far less important and telling than sales figures.

[ QUOTE ]
In other words, it doesn't exactly help me decide on a give release.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed. That's what the second question is for. But even then, it's a poll. I gave neutrals to every volume of the otherwise good release of Kiddy Grade (also a show I like) because of the 8 discs issue. Others may neutral or neg because of anger over an added 'o' to a name ::cough::, or a logo change or something else specific and therefore imopssible to see from a simple vote.

So, generally speaking, take the polls as VERY broad indicators of general reception to 1) the show itself, which is not your direct responsibility and 2) the DVD release itself, which is. And, even then, only the views of the quite odd and atypical AOD audience.

For real, (almost) useful information, that's where reading specific posts comes in. That's the best source of information, not either poll question, no matter how you interpret them.

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm10 said:
Well, most people seem to favor the "content of the show, i.e. the story/characters/etc" definition. So, in one sense, no, you don't need to care about what what people vote for that. The quality of the show itself is not ADV's responsibility, and they cannot change it for better or worse (short of a cutting footage, which would leave viewers unable to accurately vote). The only thing it might tell you is "do viewers like this kind of show?" but even that is far far less important and telling than sales figures.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well for me knowing if a show is popular or not, or box types or packins or anything else, of course sales figures are a much more important tell-tail. And I use them a great deal. /images/graemlins/happy.gif (Sometimes it's funny to see fan reaction when manga/anime lists come out for what sells and what doesn't. /images/graemlins/wink.gif ) But anyway, if that's all it is good for as you say then the letter grade system is overkill. Just give it a "like/neutral/dislike" or hey, "positive/neutral/negative" and be done with it. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[ QUOTE ]

So, generally speaking, take the polls as VERY broad indicators of general reception to 1) the show itself, which is not your direct responsibility and 2) the DVD release itself, which is. And, even then, only the views of the quite odd and atypical AOD audience.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well I see 1) above as being partly my responsibility as presentation can make a big difference. That's why I think rating it based just on seeing a bootleg or fansub is doing people a disservice. Again, that's me and why I don't rate a release I haven't actually seen. But that's how I read the poll, it may just be the "episodes" content but if you haven't seen it from that release, you're not rating that release, you're rating the release you did watch.

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
But anyway, if that's all it is good for as you say then the letter grade system is overkill. Just give it a "like/neutral/dislike" or hey, "positive/neutral/negative" and be done with it. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

For you, maybe, but these polls are for us. It's not meant to be there to let the distributors know our approval for their release, that's applicable to the second poll, which fits what you think should be there.

And having a letter grade system is potentially a better way of knowing the general consensus on how good we think it is, or how bad we think it is, because there are varying degrees. In the old system, I would vote everything I thought was "C" material as "Negative," when it may appear to others as "Neutral." While it's not a perfect system, my feeling is that this system gives a much better idea about how we feel about the content.

How much this is blowing up is really sort of amusing to me. It has to be a slow week or something. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
Well I see 1) above as being partly my responsibility as presentation can make a big difference. That's why I think rating it based just on seeing a bootleg or fansub is doing people a disservice. Again, that's me and why I don't rate a release I haven't actually seen. But that's how I read the poll, it may just be the "episodes" content but if you haven't seen it from that release, you're not rating that release, you're rating the release you did watch.

[/ QUOTE ]

But, again, the first one doesn't necessarily relate to anything anyone at ADV did. That would be the second one.

Now, if someone thinks that the technical aspects of the release are so important as to actually affect THE STORY AND CHARACTERS OF THE SHOW, then I guess they could vote accordingly. But that's not the direct intention of the question (as Chris posted in the forum feedback thread), and I've *certainly* never ever liked the story/character/etc content of a show more or less on DVD than I did through other means. Why? Because it's exactly the same.

Technically, DVDs are significantly better, yes. I would, therefore, never vote in the second poll unless I owned and saw the DVD -- unless I'm voting based on price/ep-count/disc-count, which I have done and will continue to do, because it's more important for me than any technical issue, short of fatal gltches. It's an absolutely fundamental aspect of the release. But I only will do that in what I see to be extreme cases. So, second poll = you better own the disc. Otherwise I can't actually know if ADV, for example, really did a good job on Chrono Crusade disc 4 or whatever. The fansubs definitely won't tell me that, and I'd never argue to the contrary. They certainly do give me everything I need to know about whether or not those episodes are enjoyable in story and characters.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
ChristianLF said:
How much this is blowing up is really sort of amusing to me. It has to be a slow week or something. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, I don't think it's really "blown up" or anything, it's pretty civil and interesting. Unless you just meant it's gotten to be a big discussion. I think it is, though, a good discussion to have -- licensors/retailers won't look for the same information in the polls that the consumer will. So, who is it meant for and what should each side get from it, if anything? I'm kind of glad DLW brought it up.

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm10 said:
Unless you just meant it's gotten to be a big discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I mean. When I first responded to dlw, I didn't imagine it would become this forum wide debate about the polling... /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif I'm obviously not knocking the participation in it, as I've repeatedly come back for more. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

I am happy that the ultimate conclusion is that it clears up any confusion about the polling.

[populuxe]

[ QUOTE ]
Nosredna said:
Isn't it tough to review a show you've already watched?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not at all. Honestly, this is probably the fourth or fifth time I've watched this volume. Since I've already watched it purely for the entertainment value, this time I can look at it on a technical level without feeling like I'm cheating myself out of just watching it for fun.

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
ChristianLF said:
For you, maybe, but these polls are for us. It's not meant to be there to let the distributors know our approval for their release, that's applicable to the second poll, which fits what you think should be there.


[/ QUOTE ]

For US?? I'm not looking at this from a distributor looking for fan feedback issue. Trust me, I already get plenty of fan feedback in these forums and through sales figures. /images/graemlins/happy.gif But long before there were any companies distributing anime in the US, I was a fan. Helped run a couple of anime clubs, cons, (no comment on other "fan" activities... /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif ) and other stuff. I still am a fan, so I'm always looking for feedback on shows from that view point as well.

[ QUOTE ]

And having a letter grade system is potentially a better way of knowing the general consensus on how good we think it is, or how bad we think it is, because there are varying degrees. In the old system, I would vote everything I thought was "C" material as "Negative," when it may appear to others as "Neutral." While it's not a perfect system, my feeling is that this system gives a much better idea about how we feel about the content.


[/ QUOTE ]

If the letter grade system is so much better, and you'd limit yourself in rating something like that, then why not use the same for the second poll as well? Why is it better for one and not the other? Or the other way around. The thing I'm seeing here is that how you view the polls isn't the same as the way I might and others see them in their own way too. Which makes it harder to give a fair rating.

[ QUOTE ]

How much this is blowing up is really sort of amusing to me. It has to be a slow week or something. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That's interesting, another sign of how opinions differ as I don't really think this has "blown" up really. We're all just sitting around having a discussion which is, imo, how it should be. That's all fair. Now I admit I haven't been reading the thread in forum feedback really so maybe that's where you see it all "blowing up". /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm10 said:
But, again, the first one doesn't necessarily relate to anything anyone at ADV did. That would be the second one.


[/ QUOTE ]

Except that as we've seen here in the thread, for many people it does. The "content of this release" rating gets affected by the tech aspects of the presentation. It has an affect on how a person feels about the show. As Chris has pointed out, he didn't like some shows when he saw the fansubs but when he watched the DVD he really enjoyed the show. It's the same story, but the presentation made a huge difference for him.


[ QUOTE ]

Now, if someone thinks that the technical aspects of the release are so important as to actually affect THE STORY AND CHARACTERS OF THE SHOW, then I guess they could vote accordingly. But that's not the direct intention of the question (as Chris posted in the forum feedback thread), and I've *certainly* never ever liked the story/character/etc content of a show more or less on DVD than I did through other means. Why? Because it's exactly the same.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course he also said he'd personally prefer people vote who had actually seen THAT RELEASE. So his intent might be that if you've watched the fansub or R2 that you don't rate "this release". Now we could change the poll to say how would you rate these episodes as to me that's a different intent than the current wording and would change how some people rate things it appears. As for you not liking a show more or less on the dvd than other means, I'm with Chris on this one, I've seen shows on TV that I thought were only so-so but then watched them again on the dvd and thought, wow, this is really good.

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
For US?? I'm not looking at this from a distributor looking for fan feedback issue. Trust me, I already get plenty of fan feedback in these forums and through sales figures. /images/graemlins/happy.gif But long before there were any companies distributing anime in the US, I was a fan. Helped run a couple of anime clubs, cons, (no comment on other "fan" activities... /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif ) and other stuff. I still am a fan, so I'm always looking for feedback on shows from that view point as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not suggesting you should take them seriously, I was responding to your dismissal of the polls as not useful after disarm explained they weren't there to indicate how we felt about the release. I'm quite aware you have far better avenues to gauge how well releases are doing. /images/graemlins/happy.gif As a fan I still disagree with your suggestion, as I find it a step backwards.

[ QUOTE ]

If the letter grade system is so much better, and you'd limit yourself in rating something like that, then why not use the same for the second poll as well? Why is it better for one and not the other? Or the other way around. The thing I'm seeing here is that how you view the polls isn't the same as the way I might and others see them in their own way too. Which makes it harder to give a fair rating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you should broach your suggestions for improvement with Chris. I'm not saying it's perfect or cannot be clarified or improved. But suggesting we should revert to a former less informative scale because the current scale isn't as informative as you think it should be seems senseless to me.

As to how I view the polls, Chris already clearly spelled it out in the Feedback thread. Content=show, Overall=release. If people choose to continue to view it their own way, I can't really add any more to convince them otherwise.

[ QUOTE ]

That's interesting, another sign of how opinions differ as I don't really think this has "blown" up really. We're all just sitting around having a discussion which is, imo, how it should be. That's all fair. Now I admit I haven't been reading the thread in forum feedback really so maybe that's where you see it all "blowing up". /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps it's the fiery images of explosions the phrase may conjure, but by "Blown up" I mean increased dramatically in scale, size, and how it's become a major focal point of conversation, when originally, I was just trying to clarify the polls for you. It's slangy, and I probably should have just spelled that out to avoid confusion, but I'm not suggesting it's getting hostile. I haven't taken your posts like that, and hopefully, you haven't taken mine that way. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
Of course he also said he'd personally prefer people vote who had actually seen THAT RELEASE. So his intent might be that if you've watched the fansub or R2 that you don't rate "this release". Now we could change the poll to say how would you rate these episodes as to me that's a different intent than the current wording and would change how some people rate things it appears. As for you not liking a show more or less on the dvd than other means, I'm with Chris on this one, I've seen shows on TV that I thought were only so-so but then watched them again on the dvd and thought, wow, this is really good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chris stated that as his personal preference because it personally affects him that way, not as a rule for everyone to follow. Specifically, he noted preferring his 50" television to viewing on the computer. However, I know plenty of people that view the DVDs on inferior set-ups, 4:3 television sets, computers, etc, etc. I know personally, my grading of the show and story itself does not improve by the shininess of the way it's exhibited. But viewing these shows is a subjective experience, and each person is going to be affected by different things. Should we partly base our view of the validity of people's opinions about the show in relation to how good their A/V setup is?

These polls are not the end all and be all of everything. They're there to be helpful and give people a general sampling of the forum opinion. What is most helpful are the comments provided by people about why they feel the way they feel. You're never going to institute any sort of poll that can perfectly reflect the opinions and the "whys" behind them.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
Except that as we've seen here in the thread, for many people it does. The "content of this release" rating gets affected by the tech aspects of the presentation. It has an affect on how a person feels about the show. As Chris has pointed out, he didn't like some shows when he saw the fansubs but when he watched the DVD he really enjoyed the show. It's the same story, but the presentation made a huge difference for him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but those who would significantly change their grade because of that seem to be in the minority based on what I've seen, but that's only my impression, of course, not science.

[ QUOTE ]
Now we could change the poll to say how would you rate these episodes as to me that's a different intent than the current wording and would change how some people rate things it appears.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that clarifies things, I think that would be a very good move on Chris' part.

And, for what it's worth (since I dont know if you were bringing this up too or not), I'd rate the episodes based on the episodes I saw that are in the given release. I wouldn't give a show with a bad start an A for volume 1 just because it is worthy of an A overall. I know I said in one post that I'll give Narutaru an A, but in reality the first volume is probably going to be closer to a B for me, since it takes awhile to pick up. Just wanted to clear that up in case that was another concern.

Anyway, I guess I'm not entirely relevant to the point some posters find sticky (the issue of presentation somehow affecting story/characters) since, to be honest, those things don't pop up as being that important to me. The technical advancements from initial viewing to DVD are nice, and the occasional extra intrigues me (maybe that's like, one per 20 discs in my collection though), and, well, the dub is there if I ever do decide to watch it, and occasionally there are minor tweaks from tv to DVD (more often in animation quality than story though). None of these, however, is enough to get me to buy DVDs by themselves, or even all combined. I buy the DVDs for two main reasons: to have a physical manifestation of my love for the series, and to support the industry in a legitimate, financial way. I don't mean, of course, to belittle the efforts of all the good people at ADV, or Geneon, or TRSI, or Bandai, etc., of course. Keep putting out the best quality discs you can, both technically and in terms of translation/dubbing. I do appreciate it (and really, we're sure paying for it /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif )

But... yeah. I guess my approach to this poll is significantly different from others like yourself. I still think most people do aproach it from a basic split between "quality of the show itself" and "quality of the R1 localization/distrobution job," but I obviously can't prove that.

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
ChristianLF said:
I'm not suggesting you should take them seriously, I was responding to your dismissal of the polls as not useful after disarm explained they weren't there to indicate how we felt about the release. I'm quite aware you have far better avenues to gauge how well releases are doing. /images/graemlins/happy.gif As a fan I still disagree with your suggestion, as I find it a step backwards.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I think maybe you are misunderstanding my comments to his post.

[ QUOTE ]

Perhaps you should broach your suggestions for improvement with Chris. I'm not saying it's perfect or cannot be clarified or improved. But suggesting we should revert to a former less informative scale because the current scale isn't as informative as you think it should be seems senseless to me.


[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't suggest it, I asked if the poll is to only give people a chance to say they like or don't like it and that was it as was discussed earlier in the thread, why the letter grade. And if the letter grade, why not for the other poll as well?

[ QUOTE ]

As to how I view the polls, Chris already clearly spelled it out in the Feedback thread. Content=show, Overall=release. If people choose to continue to view it their own way, I can't really add any more to convince them otherwise.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes he has, just suggested he could change the wording maybe. But at the same time he also clearly spelled it out that he felt personally you shouldn't rate the content if you haven't seen that actual release. There isn't any question what the "content" was meant to refer to, that was cleared up much earlier in the thread. But what it's meant to refer to and how people actually refer to it seem to be two different things, thus the continued discussion. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[ QUOTE ]

Perhaps it's the fiery images of explosions the phrase may conjure, but by "Blown up" I mean increased dramatically in scale, size, and how it's become a major focal point of conversation, when originally, I was just trying to clarify the polls for you. It's slangy, and I probably should have just spelled that out to avoid confusion, but I'm not suggesting it's getting hostile. I haven't taken your posts like that, and hopefully, you haven't taken mine that way. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, haven't seen anything hostile here yet. /images/graemlins/happy.gif Just people sitting around having a nice discussion. (Kind of a pleasant change. /images/graemlins/happy.gif ) But compared to most big threads around here this one is far from "blowing up",ie increasing dramatically, in my opinion. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
ChristianLF said:
Chris stated that as his personal preference because it personally affects him that way, not as a rule for everyone to follow.


[/ QUOTE ]

His personal preference was for people to follow that rule, not just that he would. But he knows people won't always so doesn't really bother with it. Now if I read him wrong, I'm sure he'll correct me but that's what I got from his post.

[ QUOTE ]

Specifically, he noted preferring his 50" television to viewing on the computer. However, I know plenty of people that view the DVDs on inferior set-ups, 4:3 television sets, computers, etc, etc. I know personally, my grading of the show and story itself does not improve by the shininess of the way it's exhibited. But viewing these shows is a subjective experience, and each person is going to be affected by different things. Should we partly base our view of the validity of people's opinions about the show in relation to how good their A/V setup is?


[/ QUOTE ]

Now Chris did meantion the video quality as one affect but I believe that was more an example than a end all. I'm not talking about how good the picture looks or if the sound is right at all myself. But let's look at something at has a more direct affect on the story itself. The translation. I've seen many shows that were mistransated, had lines missing, etc. and that had a big affect on my enjoyment of the story. Either I was irked or mislead. Then seeing a more complete or different translation, I enjoyed the show a LOT more. Don't you think that can have an affect on someone giving a rating to the episodes? I've seen it happen a lot.

[ QUOTE ]

These polls are not the end all and be all of everything. They're there to be helpful and give people a general sampling of the forum opinion. What is most helpful are the comments provided by people about why they feel the way they feel. You're never going to institute any sort of poll that can perfectly reflect the opinions and the "whys" behind them.

[/ QUOTE ]

No but you can be more clear as to what the poll represents. And yes, the end all be all of everything is what the one fan who gets the show thinks of what he purchased. In the long run, that's the only poll that really matters.

So it appears that I've be able to get some people to ponder this point, others to defend it and yet probably pleny more who don't give a damn. /images/graemlins/happy.gif If that's so then I feel accomplished. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
I didn't suggest it, I asked if the poll is to only give people a chance to say they like or don't like it and that was it as was discussed earlier in the thread, why the letter grade.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
But anyway, if that's all it is good for as you say then the letter grade system is overkill. Just give it a "like/neutral/dislike" or hey, "positive/neutral/negative" and be done with it. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I took that as a suggestion for reverting. Perhaps I'm reading it wrong.

[ QUOTE ]
And if the letter grade, why not for the other poll as well?

[/ QUOTE ]
As I said, I'm not arguing against that. And like I said, perhaps you can suggest an improvement to Chris. To me, it doesn't matter as much, because I view content as the most important part. In that, I like the greater variation the "grades" allow to convey the general opinion. To me, breaking the release details into many categories with letter grades would make an awkward and clumsy post. I personally believe people should explain their opinions about the release in posts, but that shouldn't stop you from broaching it with Chris. I wouldn't argue against it, as it doesn't matter to me. It would make for an insanely long poll, though. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[ QUOTE ]

But what it's meant to refer to and how people actually refer to it seem to be two different things, thus the continued discussion. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, like I said, I can't do anything to change that. But it shouldn't be taken away fom those of us who properly use the poll because others wish to punish/reward the content grade with release detail considerations.

[ QUOTE ]

But compared to most big threads around here this one is far from "blowing up",ie increasing dramatically, in my opinion. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Chalk it up to me not thinking this was an issue that would garner a lot of attention. I was clearly in error about that.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
I didn't suggest it, I asked if the poll is to only give people a chance to say they like or don't like it and that was it as was discussed earlier in the thread, why the letter grade. And if the letter grade, why not for the other poll as well?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's an evolutionary process =P We started with no polls. Then one poll, +/o/-. Then two polls, both +/o/-. Now those same two polls, but A+/A/etc and +/o/-.

There's a pattern here. Maybe your comments will usher in the next stage of evolution =P That's how it started before.

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
Now Chris did meantion the video quality as one affect but I believe that was more an example than a end all. I'm not talking about how good the picture looks or if the sound is right at all myself. But let's look at something at has a more direct affect on the story itself. The translation. I've seen many shows that were mistransated, had lines missing, etc. and that had a big affect on my enjoyment of the story. Either I was irked or mislead. Then seeing a more complete or different translation, I enjoyed the show a LOT more. Don't you think that can have an affect on someone giving a rating to the episodes? I've seen it happen a lot.


[/ QUOTE ]
Well, for one thing, R1 releases are not impervious to translation errors. Reference ADV's Samurai X - Trust and Betrayal for one example. Bandai's Banner of the Stars has been plagued with them as well. Now, I do want the professional translation. But your original contention was against someone who watched ADV's version on ADV's channel. I'm wondering whether people are harping on the "fansub angle" because it makes a more convenient argument. In the end, I've yet to encounter such massive differences between fansub/R1 translations that it would have affected my content scoring. I'll concede it could be a concern, but I don't see it as big enough to barr people from grading.

[ QUOTE ]

No but you can be more clear as to what the poll represents.

[/ QUOTE ]
Again, I'm not arguing against any clarification.

[ QUOTE ]
And yes, the end all be all of everything is what the one fan who gets the show thinks of what he purchased. In the long run, that's the only poll that really matters.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the "end all and be all," I was specifically referring to the polls and their role. I view them as helpful guides. And like I said, I find the explanations in people's posts to be more helpful in explaining the grade and why they felt the way they did about the release.

[dlw]

[ QUOTE ]
ChristianLF said:
Well, for one thing, R1 releases are not impervious to translation errors. Reference ADV's Samurai X - Trust and Betrayal for one example. Bandai's Banner of the Stars has been plagued with them as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was very careful to not claim which side had the better translation. That's a whole different issue and one that can "blow up" very fast.

[ QUOTE ]

Now, I do want the professional translation. But your original contention was against someone who watched ADV's version on ADV's channel.


[/ QUOTE ]

No my original contention was with people "rate the content of THIS RELEASE" without having seen "THIS RELEASE". The poster who commented about only seeing it on the Anime Network just gave me a place from which to make my comments. Where they see it doesn't matter to the issue I was trying to point out.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm wondering whether people are harping on the "fansub angle" because it makes a more convenient argument. In the end, I've yet to encounter such massive differences between fansub/R1 translations that it would have affected my content scoring. I'll concede it could be a concern, but I don't see it as big enough to barr people from grading.


[/ QUOTE ]

Being an old time fan, I have seen some pretty bad "fansubs" which could easily make you change your mind. But again, that's treading into dangerous waters. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

At this point it would appear that it's only the three of us debating this as the others have probably all moved to the forum feedback thread which is probably more where this really belongs. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:
At this point it would appear that it's only the three of us debating this as the others have probably all moved to the forum feedback thread which is probably more where this really belongs. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much, and I believe I've said all that I wanted to say on this, anyway. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[Njr Scrawl]

[ QUOTE ]
But let's look at something that has a more direct affect on the story itself. The translation. I've seen many shows that were mistranslated, had lines missing, etc. and that had a big affect on my enjoyment of the story.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad you concede that.

I agree a particular disc's presentation should be graded for how it has been passed as a product to be sold to the public. Separate poll to content though, but IMO a worthwhile distinction to be made.

A further poll might be "did you focus mainly on a) subtitled b) dubbed c) both language tracks &amp; extras"

[Vicious]

[ QUOTE ]
dlw said:

At this point it would appear that it's only the three of us debating this as the others have probably all moved to the forum feedback thread which is probably more where this really belongs. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I'm just sticking to ET, where we just argue about whether Hilary is the greatest VA ever or not. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif