I's Volume 2 edit

[akcoll99]

I saw a couple copies of I's Volume 2 sitting on the shelf at Borders and as I was flipping through it, I was noticing that the content looked fairly untouched until I got to page 116 and the scene of Ichitaka walking in on Itsuki as she was coming out of the shower holding a towel. The Viz version looked like it was something they would have edited, so I went home and checked my Japanese tankoubon and in the Japanese version, you can see her left nipple exposed, which I don't remember seeing in the Viz version. Page 120 features a flashback to the scene, so I'm sure that if Viz edited page 116, they probably also did the same with page 120.
I know this is no shocking revelation concerning a "SJ Advanced" title, but I thought people should be aware that it looks like Viz's censors got overeager again... /images/graemlins/anger100.gif

[MrDisco]

yay more nipple editing. i will continue to not buy this title to show my disgust.

[BlazinTy]

Unfornately I dont think viz cares. When I asked them if they noticed a drop in sales due to the editing they said no.

[Kevinroc]

[ QUOTE ]
BlazinTy said:
Unfornately I dont think viz cares. When I asked them if they noticed a drop in sales due to the editing they said no.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know Viz doesn't care as they still insist on trotting out that old "don't want to anger parents" line. Not even seeming to suggest the possibility that they should have marketed this title to an older audience or anything.

Edit: So that was you who asked about I's, huh? I saw you ask that question.

[BlazinTy]

Um heck no i wasnt the big dork at the mic I asked the vp lady after the anime panel.

[Kevinroc]

[ QUOTE ]
BlazinTy said:
Um heck no i wasnt the big dork at the mic I asked the vp lady after the anime panel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. Just clarifying the situation.

[MrDisco]

[ QUOTE ]
BlazinTy said:
Unfornately I dont think viz cares. When I asked them if they noticed a drop in sales due to the editing they said no.

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps not but at least i know my money wont be supporting that effort. lots and lots of manga titles out there to spend it on.

[Pepperidge]

[ QUOTE ]
Kevinroc said:
Not even seeming to suggest the possibility that they should have marketed this title to an older audience or anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

But they are marketing it to an older audience. That's the outrageous part.

[Kiril]

Is this something different from the Volume 1 "stars over nipples" edits?

We've already gone over the fact that I"s has been edited, and I'd rather not have people simply repeat the things that were already talked about when Volume 1 came out. If there is some new nuance to this, then that's slightly of interest, but at this point most of us already know that I"s is edited.

For those who didn't see the original "I's is edited" threads, you can learn more about that and other edited titles by Osaka's Livejournal "Manga Edits" page:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/manga_edits/

[JeffDM]

[ QUOTE ]
BlazinTy said:
Unfornately I dont think viz cares. When I asked them if they noticed a drop in sales due to the editing they said no.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you ask how they know that? What can they compare against? Or do they mean that "no, we really haven't noticed anything, for or against, because there is no data to corroborate a conclusion"?

[Vertical_Ed]

[ QUOTE ]
Kiril said:
Is this something different from the Volume 1 "stars over nipples" edits?

We've already gone over the fact that I"s has been edited, and I'd rather not have people simply repeat the things that were already talked about when Volume 1 came out. If there is some new nuance to this, then that's slightly of interest, but at this point most of us already know that I"s is edited.

For those who didn't see the original "I's is edited" threads, you can learn more about that and other edited titles by Osaka's Livejournal "Manga Edits" page:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/manga_edits/

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again looking for scans of these pages. I have the original version myself so I can scan those but I need Viz's.

Thanks

[akcoll99]

[ QUOTE ]
Kiril said:
Is this something different from the Volume 1 "stars over nipples" edits?

We've already gone over the fact that I"s has been edited, and I'd rather not have people simply repeat the things that were already talked about when Volume 1 came out. If there is some new nuance to this, then that's slightly of interest, but at this point most of us already know that I"s is edited.

For those who didn't see the original "I's is edited" threads, you can learn more about that and other edited titles by Osaka's Livejournal "Manga Edits" page:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/manga_edits/

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just posting about it because this edit wasn't nearly as obvious as the stars over the nipples. I don't have the Viz version in front of me, but IIRC, it looked like they extended the towel over a little to cover up the exposed nipple (which you can barely even see in the Japanese version anyway).
Not the most earth-shattering event, I know, but a make-or-break kind of thing for most buyers here, myself included. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[Kevinroc]

[ QUOTE ]
Pepperidge said:
[ QUOTE ]
Kevinroc said:
Not even seeming to suggest the possibility that they should have marketed this title to an older audience or anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

But they are marketing it to an older audience. That's the outrageous part.

[/ QUOTE ]

And they still used the "parents" line to vindicate the edits in I's.

[GodaiStudios]

[ QUOTE ]
BlazinTy said:
Um heck no i wasnt the big dork at the mic I asked the vp lady after the anime panel.

[/ QUOTE ]

*I* was that big dork at the mic who asked. /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif
I was mostly irritated that she said there was no standard rating system and I tried to call her on it.

My problem is that I knew when posing a question that long, I really should have written it down first. Unfortunately, while I had formulated it in my head just fine beforehand, I drew a blank while up there. Forgive my brief moment of ineptitude, will ya?

There were also others there who were also pissed off about the answer she was giving as well, so I felt like the message came across, clumsy as it was.

[BlazinTy]

Gomen /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif Donnt worry when I asked about the general censorship thing at the shoujo beat panel I looked like a big dork too.

[Kevinroc]

[ QUOTE ]
GodaiStudios said:
[ QUOTE ]
BlazinTy said:
Um heck no i wasnt the big dork at the mic I asked the vp lady after the anime panel.

[/ QUOTE ]

*I* was that big dork at the mic who asked. /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif
I was mostly irritated that she said there was no standard rating system and I tried to call her on it.

My problem is that I knew when posing a question that long, I really should have written it down first. Unfortunately, while I had formulated it in my head just fine beforehand, I drew a blank while up there. Forgive my brief moment of ineptitude, will ya?

There were also others there who were also pissed off about the answer she was giving as well, so I felt like the message came across, clumsy as it was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, it was definitely a horrible answer. I can understand and totally relate to being nervous when being on the spotlight like that. I was pretty nervous asking whatever questions I asked at the various panels but I definitely understood what it was you were getting at and was equally annoyed by Viz's "parents" response to the question.

[GodaiStudios]

[ QUOTE ]
Kevinroc said:
[ QUOTE ]
GodaiStudios said:
[ QUOTE ]
BlazinTy said:
Um heck no i wasnt the big dork at the mic I asked the vp lady after the anime panel.

[/ QUOTE ]

*I* was that big dork at the mic who asked. /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif
I was mostly irritated that she said there was no standard rating system and I tried to call her on it.

My problem is that I knew when posing a question that long, I really should have written it down first. Unfortunately, while I had formulated it in my head just fine beforehand, I drew a blank while up there. Forgive my brief moment of ineptitude, will ya?

There were also others there who were also pissed off about the answer she was giving as well, so I felt like the message came across, clumsy as it was.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, it was definitely a horrible answer. I can understand and totally relate to being nervous when being on the spotlight like that. I was pretty nervous asking whatever questions I asked at the various panels but I definitely understood what it was you were getting at and was equally annoyed by Viz's "parents" response to the question.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny thing is that I wasn't nervous in asking any other questions at any other time during the con. /images/graemlins/happy.gif
Granted, most of my other questions were more concise when doing so, even at the Viz anime panel. I think I made her uncomfortable enough the first time around when I brought up subtitiling OP/ED themes and refered to it as an "industry standard." /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Sigh... why does Viz keep doing things that says they don't want my money?

[MalrocK]

lol, with so many "edit" threads, it was hard to pick one to post in /images/graemlins/happy.gif. Anyway, I'll pick this one since I was really looking forward to collectin I's many moons ago. I'm official done with the US manga market outside 4 or 5 books I'm currently picking up (from Tokyopop Ai Yori Aoshi DNAngel, Darkhorse Hellsing, Delrey Negima Tsubasa). It's really a slap in the face to those have supported the US manga industry long before it became mainstream big business. While edits certainly are not a new thing, censorship in manga is as old as the US manga industry it's self, it's funny and disheartening to see Viz go from a company that never shied from nipples (Dragon Ball & Ranma) to censoring everything they can get their hands on. Viz & CMX seem to be leaders in the censorship crusade in manga with ADV following trying to target a larger, younger audience, while I can understand their reasoning (as asinine and shortsighted as it is) it still doesn't make it right and i think it will ultimately hurt them in the long run once people become more informed. Hey guys, just because you take out the nipples in a sex or rape scene doesn't change the fact that it's a sex or rape scene. I hope that when the bottom falls out of the manga bubble, Viz and others will see that their policies will keep those who supported them in the past from coming back. All we can do now is write our letters and go to cons and let them know that what they are doing is wrong and ultimately dangerous in our opinions.

edit: oh, and if it seems like the 4 or 5 series i'm collecting is a lot, please consider that I used to buy like 20 + volumes of manga a month

edit2: I'm also glad I held out on subscribing to Shojo Beat. /images/graemlins/happy.gif. Viz didn't censor the first issue of Shonen Jump either if we all remember

edit3: My commentary on Viz and the manga censorship issue prolly belongs elsewhere /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[darkhunter]

[ QUOTE ]
MrDisco said:
[ QUOTE ]
BlazinTy said:
Unfornately I dont think viz cares. When I asked them if they noticed a drop in sales due to the editing they said no.

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps not but at least i know my money wont be supporting that effort. lots and lots of manga titles out there to spend it on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, you know why Viz don't care? Because they don't know if you were even interested in purchasing the manga in the first place. If 500 people don't buy the manga because of edit, they will just think those 500 people were never intersted in the manga from the start. If the 2nd volume sell a lot (not a little) less than the first one, than that might be another inditication of fan drop out.

If you want your voice heard, than write them a letter, personally.

[RaeS]

[ QUOTE ]
darkhunter said:
[ QUOTE ]
MrDisco said:
[ QUOTE ]
BlazinTy said:
Unfornately I dont think viz cares. When I asked them if they noticed a drop in sales due to the editing they said no.

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps not but at least i know my money wont be supporting that effort. lots and lots of manga titles out there to spend it on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, you know why Viz don't care? Because they don't know if you were even interested in purchasing the manga in the first place. If 500 people don't buy the manga because of edit, they will just think those 500 people were never intersted in the manga from the start. If the 2nd volume sell a lot (not a little) less than the first one, than that might be another inditication of fan drop out.

If you want your voice heard, than write them a letter, personally.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just checked this at the bookstore today and volume 2 has the disclaimer that some scenes of nudity have been altered. So apparently something made an impact to make them start saying so, similar to the new Shojo Beat disclaimers.

[GodaiStudios]

[ QUOTE ]
kogalsin said:
[ QUOTE ]
darkhunter said:
[ QUOTE ]
MrDisco said:
[ QUOTE ]
BlazinTy said:
Unfornately I dont think viz cares. When I asked them if they noticed a drop in sales due to the editing they said no.

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps not but at least i know my money wont be supporting that effort. lots and lots of manga titles out there to spend it on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh, you know why Viz don't care? Because they don't know if you were even interested in purchasing the manga in the first place. If 500 people don't buy the manga because of edit, they will just think those 500 people were never intersted in the manga from the start. If the 2nd volume sell a lot (not a little) less than the first one, than that might be another inditication of fan drop out.

If you want your voice heard, than write them a letter, personally.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just checked this at the bookstore today and volume 2 has the disclaimer that some scenes of nudity have been altered. So apparently something made an impact to make them start saying so, similar to the new Shojo Beat disclaimers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disclaimers or no, I still find it unacceptable since I cannot buy a version uncensored in English. I wish that companies would realize they'd really wind up with more sales in the long run by not censoring it. It's we, the hardcore fans, not the casual buyer, who are most likely to ivest the money in an entire series.

[Harafan]

[ QUOTE ]
Kevinroc said:
[ QUOTE ]
Pepperidge said:
[ QUOTE ]
Kevinroc said:
Not even seeming to suggest the possibility that they should have marketed this title to an older audience or anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

But they are marketing it to an older audience. That's the outrageous part.

[/ QUOTE ]

And they still used the "parents" line to vindicate the edits in I's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think they're editing for some reason other than the possibility of outraged parents suing them? Janet Jackson taught us that "exposed nipple=porn" to enough people in the United States that it makes a difference. I"s might be directed at an older audience, but "older teens," (15+ or 16+) are still officially "children" in the eyes of U.S. law and popular opinion.

What other reason do you think the publishing companies have for doing it?

I don't agree with the edits, and like many others in this forum, I believe that if it "needs" to be edited, it should be labeled 18+, shrinkwrapped, and be done with it... (It's the only way to avoid the legal action that the companies fear.)

But complaining that they used the "parents" excuse for censoring is like complaining that sailors are still using the old, tired "moon" excuse for the tide rising. When it's true, it's true -- whether we're sick of hearing it or not.

Personally, I'd like to think that seeing an artist's depiction of an anatomy part (that everyone has) is not the kind of thing to send high schoolers into a sexual frenzy -- but I'm afraid I'm a part of the minority opinion in this country on that subject.

[JeffDM]

[ QUOTE ]
Harafan said:
But complaining that they used the "parents" excuse for censoring is like complaining that sailors are still using the old, tired "moon" excuse for the tide rising. When it's true, it's true -- whether we're sick of hearing it or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain why Viz needs to do this for I"s when they didn't do it to Video Girl Ai, which has equivalent content and equivalent nudity. Ai Yori Aoshi hasn't been censored as far as we are aware, either. All three titles have equivalent ratings. There are a lot of things in all three that simply wiping the nipples doesn't just make it "OK".

A parent that complains about nipples would probably complain about all the panty shots and nudity anyway, so I don't understand why only wiping the nipples will suddenly placate such people.

[witega]

[ QUOTE ]
JeffDM said:
[ QUOTE ]
Harafan said:
But complaining that they used the "parents" excuse for censoring is like complaining that sailors are still using the old, tired "moon" excuse for the tide rising. When it's true, it's true -- whether we're sick of hearing it or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please explain why Viz needs to do this for I"s when they didn't do it to Video Girl Ai, which has equivalent content and equivalent nudity. Ai Yori Aoshi hasn't been censored as far as we are aware, either. All three titles have equivalent ratings. There are a lot of things in all three that simply wiping the nipples doesn't just make it "OK".

[/ QUOTE ]

You're arguing a completely different point than Harafan was making. Harafan was simply pointing out that worrying about "parents" is why manga companies censor--its not an excuse or smoke screen, its a fact. Manga companies may be completely wrong about whether or not they need to censor or what they need to censor because of parents (and as a parent, I think they are) but it is their perception of possible parental reaction if they sold 'X' to little Johnny that causes any company to spend the extra money on production costs to censor.

Viz's inconsistency between I's and Video Girl Ai is clearly related to this and to the odds that they will actually sell each title to 'little Johnny'. Shounen Jump is their big flagship with lots of marketing directed to teenagers. The difference between 'regular' SJ and SJ Advanced seems to be between younger teens and older teens but both are directed at teens. Video Girl Ai is in their 'Action' line which seems generally targetted towards an older audience.

Ai Yori Aoshi is rather beside the point. Not only because its a different company (and Tokyopop clearly uses different standards for age ratings and editing than viz) but also to the extent that this censorship discussion has turned (somewhat) to the issue of target audiences in both Japan and the US. Ai Yori Aoshi is a seinen title aimed at college age young men to begin with--whereas both I's and VGAi were aimed at younger teens when originally published in Japan.

[ QUOTE ]
A parent that complains about nipples would probably complain about all the panty shots and nudity anyway, so I don't understand why only wiping the nipples will suddenly placate such people.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think anyone *here* is claiming that it makes sense. The biggest problem with much of Viz's 'editing' is that it is a 'band-aid'. It's not enough that it would placate someone who would be upset by the content of I's (or Nana or Descendants of Darkness); but any editing is too much for the fans.

[Kiril]

Time to lock this, as all the posts are just repeating what was said in earlier I"s threads. /images/graemlins/horse.gif