Do all Japanese directors of anime dislike it when the anime is dubbed

[LittleGirl]

I was on the Animenation board and there is a post stating that Hayao Miyazaki loved the English dub of Howl's Moving Castle. Then John gave an interview that Satoshi Kon dislikes it that his movies were dubbed. Now this is just one director but John made it seem like all directors feel this way. Now while there are some Anime which I prefered the JP version, there are others where I prefered the English version. Besides, don't directors have a say in how their shows are handled. There wouldn't be a dub if they didn't want it. It makes me sad when people think those that are fans of the dubbed version aren't true fans are anime. /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

I don't know if this is the right spot to put this. But this topic is about English dubbed anime.

[Fencedude]

I think it depends on the director.

As you said, Miyazaki likes it, Kon doesn't.

Like pretty much all things anime and dub related (and hell just anything period), generalizing is BAD.

[EmperorBrandon]

Well... if we don't have any more statements from Japanese directors beyond those two, then we don't really know...

I would be really curious to know what some of them do think about it.

[AbeChinchilla]

Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[aniki21]

[ QUOTE ]
EmperorBrandon said:
Well... if we don't have any more statements from Japanese directors beyond those two, then we don't really know...

I would be really curious to know what some of them do think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, the guy who directed FLCL was consulted on the English cast, so I think he mustn't mind that it was dubbed. At least, that's what he says on the commentary track.

[Mr. Nail Bat]

[ QUOTE ]
aniki21 said:
[ QUOTE ]
EmperorBrandon said:
Well... if we don't have any more statements from Japanese directors beyond those two, then we don't really know...

I would be really curious to know what some of them do think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]Well, the guy who directed FLCL was consulted on the English cast, so I think he mustn't mind that it was dubbed. At least, that's what he says on the commentary track.

[/ QUOTE ]

And Kunihiko Ikuhara "oversaw" dubbing of the Utena movie, so he must not have hated it all that much.

<span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>I'm more inclined to believe the statement that "'Ask John' dislikes it when anime is dubbed."</span>

Honestly as others have said the opinions of Japanese directors probably vary in opinion just like any group of people. Heck your two examples are enough to point that out. And even if some do hate English dubs, they may realize that including an English dub is a good idea and thus let it be made regardless of their own feelings on the issue.

So don't worry too much about the opinion of any one specific person. Ie don't feel a single opinion represents an entire industry, group, or whatever. Be it one you agree with or disagree with.

[Taliesin]

I'll keep this vague to avoid putting words in other peoples' mouths...
but in my experience the attitude of the creator towards the dubbing process ranged from passing indifference to high enthusiasm.
one creator was relatively uninterested, but expressed deep pleasure and gratitude upon reviewing the work. Another said he always wanted to hear his characters in English, and went out of his way to support the process at every turn. some might chalk it up to professional Japanese politeness, but I've been around this business a long time, and I know a look of genuine delight when I see it.
Talieisn

[Narob]

[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really? It didn't seem bad at all at the time of viewing. I rather enjoyed it.

[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it was pretty good (http://www.crystalacids.com/database/series/perfect_blue.html). Of course, ANYTHING with Ruby Marlowe is pretty good. /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif

[Narob]

[ QUOTE ]
TalonG4 said:
[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it was pretty good (http://www.crystalacids.com/database/series/perfect_blue.html). Of course, ANYTHING with Ruby Marlowe is pretty good. /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes! What he said! /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[porkchopexpress]

I'm not going to bother tracking down the Kon interview, but you would think he would want his creative works as accessable to as many people as possible.

[Shsway]

[ QUOTE ]
Geoduck said:
And Kunihiko Ikuhara "oversaw" dubbing of the Utena movie, so he must not have hated it all that much.

[/ QUOTE ]

It helps when Rachael Lillis is your leading lady. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif

(Didn't he say, in the commentary track for the final three episodes, that he named the new, shiny red car he bought in the US, "Rachael"? And then there's this interview (http://uranime.nekomusume.net/misc/ikuhara_interview.iphtml) (especially noting the latter half of it). /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Edit: There might be a few spoilers in here. Just thought I'd play it safe here.

[Jonathan Klein]

Actually the Kon interview said that he didn't listen to the dub of Perfect Blue, because he didn't like his work dubbed. Not that he didn't like the dub of Perfect Blue. I think Kon maybe didn't like that he wasn't consulted on the US production for the PB dub.

AFAIK: He didn't have any objections to the English dub of Paranoia Agent. Or at least he hasn't been vocal about it. One of the reasons why may have been that Geneon did consult with him prior to the dub's production on what he wanted it to be.

John from the "Ask John" collumn loves to misrepresent quotes to often skew arguments in favor of his anti-dub diatribe. He even went as far as to insinuate that Miyazaki was a renegade, for his pro-dub statements, because John believes the majority of Japanese directors wouldn't agree with Miyazaki. I doubt if John has ever taken the time or even has the ability to poll Japanese directors to find out what the majority think.

And Taliesin's right. Some Japanese directors have been very favorable to a dub over a sub, especially when the characters aren't Japanese. But John doesn't care what some creators or Japanese directors really intended, he thinks that the country of origin is all that matters.

Regards,

JK

[gpn]

As JK said, I would take any comments from "Ask John" in regards to dubs with a large grain of salt. If you read even more than a handful of the "Ask John" columns, you'll see that he doesn't try very hard to disguise his anti-dub bias.

[populuxe]

Jonathan's correct that John of "Ask John" is someone who strongly dislikes English dubs, so he takes every opportunity to misrepresent statements to support his beliefs.

As others have said, the opinions of Japanese directors vary, but most support the English dubbing of their shows (as well as the dubbing of their shows in other languages.)

It sounds like you enjoy your anime in both languages, and that's great. You get to enjoy your anime twice as much as the person who listens to their anime in only one language exclusively, whether that language is Japanese or English. My advice is to ignore the "Ask John" column, since he only represents a very narrow hardline slice of anime fandom. Just enjoy your anime however your like.

[LittleGirl]

Yes I have been aware of John's belief. I just wasn't sure if most directors think that way also. But you're right, you can't generalize. And some seemed happy with the dubs.
[ QUOTE ]
It sounds like you enjoy your anime in both languages, and that's great. You get to enjoy your anime twice as much as the person who listens to their anime in only one language exclusively, whether that language is Japanese or English.

[/ QUOTE ]
Heck if there was a third language option (Spanish,French,etc..) i'd try it out as well.
/images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif
Infact a long time ago on a website I heard sound clips of the Japanese version of the cartoon Aladdin and I actually kinda liked Akira Kamiya's version of Iago the Parrot better.It could work both ways with me. So who says the original is always best.

Anyway, thanks for the posts guys. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[theworld]

I agree. I preferred the dub of Perfect Blue over the sub.

[Legion]

John's got problems, don't take everything he writes too seriously. From what I can tell, Kon is in the minority (assuming actually he does dislike his work being dubbed)- most directors like or at least don't mind having their work dubbed. There's been several compliments given to various english dubs by many-a Japanese staff, even actors sometimes.

[Legion]

[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aside from an error in the script, the Perfect Blue dub was overall fairly well done.

[ic14]

[ QUOTE ]
Jonathan Klein said:
AFAIK: He didn't have any objections to the English dub of Paranoia Agent. Or at least he hasn't been vocal about it. One of the reasons why may have been that Geneon did consult with him prior to the dub's production on what he wanted it to be.

[/ QUOTE ]
hmmm, wonder what he thought of the dub of MA?

[ QUOTE ]

John from the "Ask John" collumn loves to misrepresent quotes to often skew arguments in favor of his anti-dub diatribe. He even went as far as to insinuate that Miyazaki was a renegade, for his pro-dub statements, because John believes the majority of Japanese directors wouldn't agree with Miyazaki. I doubt if John has ever taken the time or even has the ability to poll Japanese directors to find out what the majority think.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just another reason for me to bother reading his column then /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[ic14]

[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sweaping genralisations ahoy!!!

BTW, you forgot to call them Mangle /images/graemlins/relief1.gif

[aniki21]

[ QUOTE ]
TalonG4 said:
[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it was pretty good (http://www.crystalacids.com/database/series/perfect_blue.html). Of course, ANYTHING with Ruby Marlowe is pretty good. /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]Also, Wendee Lee is fantastic in prety much anything. I know there's a couple of funky lines in the dub (can't remember them off-hand, unfortunately), but there's not a single problem with the acting performances.

[Consignia]

I hear Miyazaki wasn't particularly pleased with the orignal handling of Nausica's localisation. However, at worst, I'd expect most director's wouldn't care.

[Mr. Nail Bat]

[ QUOTE ]
Consignia said:
I hear Miyazaki wasn't particularly pleased with the orignal handling of Nausica's localisation.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean Warriors of the Wind? I wouldn't blame him.

[porkchopexpress]

[ QUOTE ]
Geoduck said:
[ QUOTE ]
Consignia said:
I hear Miyazaki wasn't particularly pleased with the orignal handling of Nausica's localisation.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean Warriors of the Wind? I wouldn't blame him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't the "butchering" of Nausicaa precipitate some sort of clause in the Ghibli Disney deal that kept Disney from altering any of his movies?

[The Pirate Queen]

[ QUOTE ]
Jonathan Klein said:

John from the "Ask John" collumn loves to misrepresent quotes to often skew arguments in favor of his anti-dub diatribe. He even went as far as to insinuate that Miyazaki was a renegade, for his pro-dub statements, because John believes the majority of Japanese directors wouldn't agree with Miyazaki. I doubt if John has ever taken the time or even has the ability to poll Japanese directors to find out what the majority think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh - so very, very true.

[JTurner]

[ QUOTE ]
porkchopexpress said:
[ QUOTE ]
Geoduck said:
[ QUOTE ]
Consignia said:
I hear Miyazaki wasn't particularly pleased with the orignal handling of Nausica's localisation.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean Warriors of the Wind? I wouldn't blame him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't the "butchering" of Nausicaa precipitate some sort of clause in the Ghibli Disney deal that kept Disney from altering any of his movies?

[/ QUOTE ]

The answer to that question is a definite yes. True to their word, they didn't cut or alter a single frame from the movie. Now granted with their adaptation scripts, they sometimes added in and/or altered lines, but nothing was really dramatically changed, and the fact remains that Ghibli OKed the extra lines.

As far as major alterations goes, the only "tinkering" Disney ever did with Miyazaki's movies was sprinkling some comic rifts into the music score of Kiki and of course hiring Joe Hisaishi to revamp his score of Laputa for orchestra (which was really well done IMO). I find it funny that while people love to complain about how these extra aural insertions somehow sabotage Miyazaki's original works, there are sources of information which state that he (or rather his company) had their say in what Disney could or couldn't alter. And as far as I know he does not think that these extra pieces of music tarnish his movies in any way; he applauded the new score of Laputa, so that's hardly anything in the way of "butchery".

-Jon T.

[JTurner]

[ QUOTE ]
Legion said:
[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aside from an error in the script, the Perfect Blue dub was overall fairly well done.

[/ QUOTE ]

I rather liked this dub as well; granted it's by AniMaze so of course I could expect excellence, but I had no major problems with the English track (although I did come across mixed reviews of the dub). Ruby Marlowe, Wendee Lee, and Bob Marx were probably my favorite performers of the dub; they did good jobs with their characters.

I find it curious that Satoshi Kon allowed this movie to be dubbed even though he says he dislikes when English versions of his work is made.

-Jon T.

[porkchopexpress]

[ QUOTE ]
JTurner said:

I find it curious that Satoshi Kon allowed this movie to be dubbed even though he says he dislikes when English versions of his work is made.

-Jon T.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess that depends on whether he owns the rights to its international distribution. Unless the Japanese licensor has a specific reason not to allow it in the license agreement, I assume its up to the region 1 license holder to make or not make a dub.

Well, like I said in that Ask John thread originally, of course Miyazaki likes the dubs of his work! He's got A-List talent voicing and directing it! The backing of Walt freakin' Disney Corp! The Nausicaa butchery long in the past, he gets whatever he wants now.

While I've never particularly found any of John's opinions to match my own in the slightest, I'll defend his views a bit in that he's never claimed (at least in the last few months that I've started reading) that his subtitle bias is anything but his own opinion and feelings about the matter. Never that the industry should abandon dubs or anything like that. Just in order to get the "authentic" experience, a proper subtitled original track should be available.

As a long-time foreign-film watcher (as if you couldn't guess by my nick), I think dubs -- or more accurately, localizations -- are a good thing to help reach a broader audience, to hook them in to the experience. For a lot of viewers, subtitles are hard; reading and watching don't always go well together if you're not used to it. And the localizing of various colloquialisms helps bring the spirit of the piece to a viewer who wouldn't otherwise be aware of the various cultural and linguistic differences inherent in the source material.

That all said, it is absolutely, totally true that, for an authentic experience, you need to watch it as originally delivered in it's original language. With subtitles. Sometimes the subtitles suck. More often, they're just kind of minimalist and don't capture the totality of the narrative. But with experience, you find yourself being able to understand the nuance of the vocal performances, and maybe even pick up a few phrases/idioms, and find a cultural understanding as to where the work is coming from, even if it's different from your own culture. Thus the appeal to "snobs" like me... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Again, a decent localiztion is a good thing overall. Miyazaki benefits from that greatly. Nothing against the Texas theatre scene, but that doesn't even begin to compare to the kind of talent that Disney can cough up. Not that Disney's A-listers are perfect (Gillian Anderson in "Princess Mononoke" comes to mind... *ahem*), or that the average US anime-licensing studios are a waste of time (the "Noir" dub is what hooked me into the series and recent anime in general), but if the original work is any good to begin with, there's always going to be a value in experiencing it the way it was originally presented. It's just sometimes you have to work a little to get at that value.

Be it an anime series or a surreal B&amp;W Italian film with dancing mimes and whatnot. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[DKL]

... so wait, what about for something like LICENSED BY ROYALTY which was supposed to be in BRITISH-ENGLISH in the first place but just happened to be made in JAPAN?

Anime is kinda here and there *sometimes* when the argument of original-language is put into the thing...

Also, I think MONONOKE explained some things better in the dub... not too sure though, just heard about it

But hey, subs ain't so bad *or hard for that matter*

... I mean, GITS 2 only comes in one language after all, but it's still my favorite movie

[bctaris]

[ QUOTE ]
Fellini8pt5 said:
That all said, it is absolutely, totally true that, for an authentic experience, you need to watch it as originally delivered in it's original language. With subtitles.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I say this as an enormous Fellini fan myself, but that might be better phrased as without subtitles. /images/graemlins/wink.gif No dub, no sub, liner notes or translated script in your lap, with a complete understanding of the original language. Then you have an authentic experience by every definition of the word.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, like I said in that Ask John thread originally, of course Miyazaki likes the dubs of his work! He's got A-List talent voicing and directing it! The backing of Walt freakin' Disney Corp!
...
Nothing against the Texas theatre scene, but that doesn't even begin to compare to the kind of talent that Disney can cough up. Not that Disney's A-listers are perfect (Gillian Anderson in "Princess Mononoke" comes to mind... *ahem*), or that the average US anime-licensing studios are a waste of time (the "Noir" dub is what hooked me into the series and recent anime in general) ...

[/ QUOTE ]

The Disney Ghibli "big name" dubs are now consistently very good, but don't fall into the trap that A-list actor talent is automatically more suitable than regional theater talent when it comes to ADR. The dubbing skill set is unique and there are plenty of celebrity actors that will, as Talieisn Jaffe once put it, "break down and cry" trying to do it. Most of the time I'm more willing to give the advantage to the actor who has more experience in actually doing ADR on a frequent basis, or at least has some pre-lay experience.

Sure, a name Miyazaki may recognize will most likely make him happy, but it alone is not the reason for his fundamental acceptance of foreign dubs of his work.

[mrgazpacho]

[ QUOTE ]
Consignia said:
I hear Miyazaki wasn't particularly pleased with the orignal handling of Nausica's localisation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but that went way beyond "dubbing"...

[Bitterman]

[ QUOTE ]
Fellini8pt5 said:
That all said, it is absolutely, totally true that, for an authentic experience, you need to watch it as originally delivered in it's original language. With subtitles. Sometimes the subtitles suck. More often, they're just kind of minimalist and don't capture the totality of the narrative. But with experience, you find yourself being able to understand the nuance of the vocal performances, and maybe even pick up a few phrases/idioms, and find a cultural understanding as to where the work is coming from, even if it's different from your own culture. Thus the appeal to "snobs" like me... /images/graemlins/wink.gif


[/ QUOTE ]
I must respectfully disagree. For the true authentic experience, as I understand you're arguing for, you must watch the film in the native language without subtitles or a translation. Be fluent in the language, customs, and traditions of the society where it was produced. Anything else is a different kind of compromise.

[Legion]

[ QUOTE ]
Consignia said:
I hear Miyazaki wasn't particularly pleased with the orignal handling of Nausica's localisation. However, at worst, I'd expect most director's wouldn't care.

[/ QUOTE ]

That had nothing to do with the simple fact that it was dubbed, though: he disliked it because the script was not adapted all that faithfully, characters names were changes and a good 30+ mins (I think) were edited out.

I'm willing to bet a weeks pay that he's far, far more pleased with the current Nausicaa release.

[Chiyosuke]

[ QUOTE ]
Geoduck said:
I'm more inclined to believe the statement that "'Ask John' dislikes it when anime is dubbed."

[/ QUOTE ]

I find that highly ironic considering he produces dubs, but hey, yall may be right /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Legion]

[ QUOTE ]
Chiyosuke said:
[ QUOTE ]
Geoduck said:
I'm more inclined to believe the statement that "'Ask John' dislikes it when anime is dubbed."

[/ QUOTE ]

I find that highly ironic considering he produces dubs, but hey, yall may be right /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Is he actually involved in the dubbing for AN titles at all? I figured he did some other sort of work. I know he was defending the dub for Miami Guns left right and centre on the ANN forums awhile back, which was amusingly hypocritical of him. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[Chiyosuke]

[ QUOTE ]
Legion said:
[ QUOTE ]
Chiyosuke said:
[ QUOTE ]
Geoduck said:
I'm more inclined to believe the statement that "'Ask John' dislikes it when anime is dubbed."

[/ QUOTE ]

I find that highly ironic considering he produces dubs, but hey, yall may be right /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Is he actually involved in the dubbing for AN titles at all? I figured he did some other sort of work. I know he was defending the dub for Miami Guns left right and centre on the ANN forums awhile back, which was amusingly hypocritical of him. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

AFAIK, he's just a producer for AN Entertainment. I figure he does the same as any other producer in this industry: overseer.

Heh heh, Johnathan was rather blunt. I haven't done much communicating with dub staff here, so seeing that was rather amusing. Kudos to Johnathan and Talesin.

[aniki21]

[ QUOTE ]
Fellini8pt5 said:
That all said, it is absolutely, totally true that, for an authentic experience, you need to watch it as originally delivered in it's original language. With subtitles. ... with experience, you find yourself being able to understand the nuance of the vocal performances, and maybe even pick up a few phrases/idioms, and find a cultural understanding as to where the work is coming from, even if it's different from your own culture.

[/ QUOTE ]That's always struck me as a completely crazy argument.

First off, how much are you going to be able to understand the subtleties of a language like Japanese (one which much different from any European language like French or Italian, which English is based on), based solely on your experience from it in Japanese entertainment? Without any kind of experience of it being spoken naturally in a real-world situation, I'd not trust my anime viewing to be a suitable training ground for the nuances of the Japanese language, thank you very much. With European languages it's easier since their structures and history is much closer to English (plus, I speak French), but there are far too many grammatical and structural differences between Japanese and English for me to assume anime alone to be an appropriate and able learning tool.

Secondly, I wouldn't trust entertainment (unless it's edutainment specifically designed for it) as a place to pick up "phrases and idioms" either. A lot of that stuff depends entirely on context, and unless you know the subtleties of the entire conversation pretty well, you might take entirely the wrong impression from a particular phrase if the translator or subtitle checker screw up somewhere.

And thirdly, I'd venture that anyone who thinks anime (or cinema in general) contains much direct exposure to the culture of the creating nation would need to rethink that strategy. Of course Japanese films, including anime, are influenced by their culture, but by no means are they all sufficiently detailed in their depictions of cultural elements for a foreigner to "get" it all - especially since there's often an assumption on the creator's part that the audience knows the significance and history of any given event already. For instance, would you have anyone judge America by it's cinema? A lot of renegade cops running wild and blowing the shit out of LA/New York/wherever? Even the more serious, thoughtful films show America, and it's people, to be a nation almost entirely devoid of any moral guidance whatsoever, or at best struggling against an essentially corrupt national identity. I'd be even less thrilled to see the perceptions of the UK based on our only major cinematic contributions, Hugh Grant films and Guy Ritchie. A bunch of bumbling fools and gangsters. And we'll leave the Northern-Ireland-centric films out of it too, at this point.

Film intellectuals bore me. If you want to watch a four-hour black-and-white Polish drama and delude yourself that it makes you better than me, then by all means. I'll be over here enjoying my anime, rather than worrying I'm not being "authentic" (whatever the hell that is).

[Legion]

[ QUOTE ]
Fellini8pt5 said:
But with experience, you find yourself being able to understand the nuance of the vocal performances, and maybe even pick up a few phrases/idioms, and find a cultural understanding as to where the work is coming from, even if it's different from your own culture. Thus the appeal to "snobs" like me... /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm... if you watch enough arty foreign films from a particular country then maybe you'll start to get a feel for that stuff eventually, but getting that sense for Japanese from watching anime, um, doesn't work. Japanese voice acting, like stage acting (and to a lesser degree, live action acting) does not sound natural at all. People in Japan do not speak like that. Thus, there's precious little you can scrape together for Japan's language and culture from Japanese voice acting.

[porkchopexpress]

[ QUOTE ]
aniki21 said:
For instance, would you have anyone judge America by it's cinema?

[/ QUOTE ]


Oh please God NO!!!!

Just for the record, I totally agree with all of the followup points -- that just by watching the entertainment of a different culture, you're not going to pick up everything. And Japanese is harder to pick up for a westerner than a European language. Though, no, anime isn't the only source for learning Japanese culture/idioms either, and I would never claim it would. /images/graemlins/happy.gif Other reading, research, and interest in the subject rounds it out, though. At least as much as it's going to from the ol' La-Z-Boy.

And yeah, true authentic listening can only come with fluency in the language. Obviously not everyone can achieve that in every case. I was trying to get across my rambling so-called point /images/graemlins/wink.gif that the different levels of localization correlate into different levels of experiencing foreign entertainment.

For instance, I get pleasure from seeking out more about how films communicate at more than just the narrative level. In a lot of ways, to me, what the exact dialogue says isn't as important as the inflection and rhythm of how it's said; of the facial expressions and body language while it's being said, of what the camera is doing to paint the picture around the whole moment. A more "universal" cinematic language. Which is why I can sit through boring arty pompous gibberish and enjoy it. I really get off on that kind of detail. But I hold no illusion that it actually makes me a better or more "tuned-in" viewer than everyone else; it just makes me look like a pompous snob when I try to talk about it. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Finally, yet more agreement with the post about professional VO talent vs. so-called "A-listers". Having produced some (extremely boring) corporate content back in the day, I can attest to the competency of good voiceover skills compared to traditionally on-camera talent trying to do the same tasks. I tried to jokingly note by example that I didn't believe it to be an absolute rule either; I suppose I could have been more clear.

[BonifaceVIII]

[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]
And this, folks, is why you don't post based on your opinions of a certain company only. The Perfect Blue dub is, in fact, great.

[evilarrex]

[ QUOTE ]
BonifaceVIII said:

And this, folks, is why you don't post based on your opinions of a certain company only. The Perfect Blue dub is, in fact, great.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Don't pre-judge a dub by the studio (unless its Canadian) /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/devil.gif
The Perfect Blue Dub was pretty darn good for its day and age. I haven't had much issues with Manga Ent dubs for shows I've seen. The dubs for GITS, Ninja Scroll, ROD OVA have all been acceptable.

[populuxe]

I appreciate that everyone is mostly being civil about this, but let's keep it on subject, which is the perception of Japanese directors to how their shows are dubbed outside of Japan. I don't want us going down the slippery slope of another sub/dub argument.

[Taliesin]

and on that note...
come see my anime adaptation panel at your local convention (Onicon next, I believe) for my complete unyielding feelings on the subject of this thread. Bring a DAT recorder and remind me to SPEAK SLOWLY.
I love you people.
Taliesin

[maxanime]

[ QUOTE ]
TalonG4 said:
[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it was pretty good (http://www.crystalacids.com/database/series/perfect_blue.html). Of course, ANYTHING with Ruby Marlowe is pretty good. /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel inclined to disagree.

coughrayearthcough

[populuxe]

[ QUOTE ]
Taliesin said:
come see my anime adaptation panel at your local convention (Onicon next, I believe) for my complete unyielding feelings on the subject of this thread. Bring a DAT recorder and remind me to SPEAK SLOWLY.


[/ QUOTE ]

Use small words. I'm kinda dumb.

[The_Mahou]

[ QUOTE ]
-maxa- said:
[ QUOTE ]
TalonG4 said:
[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it was pretty good (http://www.crystalacids.com/database/series/perfect_blue.html). Of course, ANYTHING with Ruby Marlowe is pretty good. /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel inclined to disagree.

coughrayearthcough

[/ QUOTE ]

And I feel inclined to disagree there. I rather liked the Rayearth dub, personally, rough as it was in some parts. Ruby Marlowe was actually one of my favorites.

And is there anyway someone can make a transcript of Taliesin Jaffe's panel? I want to at least read his unyielding thoughts on this subject since I won't be able to make the convention. /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

[maxanime]

Okay Ruby is the exception, as she was the appropriate choice for Fuu. But I really didn't like Rayearth's dub as a whole.

I like Mangle's dub to Media Blasters.

edit: Thanks legion

[Legion]

[ QUOTE ]
-maxa- said:
Okay Ruby is the exception, as she was the appropriate choice for Fuu. But I really didn't like Rayearth's dub as a whole.

I like Mangle's dub better than Media Blaster's.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed.

[ic14]

[ QUOTE ]
-maxa- said:
I like Mangle's dub to Media Blasters.

[/ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/icon_rolleyes.gif

Its Manga Ent, goddamnit.

[porkchopexpress]

[ QUOTE ]
The_Mahou said:
And is there anyway someone can make a transcript of Taliesin Jaffe's panel?

[/ QUOTE ]

I second that.

[Nork22]

[ QUOTE ]
Fellini8pt5 said:
That all said, it is absolutely, totally true that, for an authentic experience, you need to watch it as originally delivered in it's original language. With subtitles.

[/ QUOTE ]
Umm no. If you really want an authentic experience, watch it in Japanese without the subtitles. And I know a few of us dubbies already do that (bring on My Otohime raw!!!). /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[populuxe]

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
If you really want an authentic experience, watch it in Japanese without the subtitles. And I know a few of us dubbies already do that (bring on My Otohime raw!!!). /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the second OVA series of Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou on R2 DVD, and two different Sakura Taisen live performance DVDs. I enjoy both of them quite a bit, even if I don't speak a lick of Japanese.

[evilarrex]

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:

Umm no. If you really want an authentic experience, watch it in Japanese without the subtitles. And I know a few of us dubbies already do that (bring on My Otohime raw!!!). /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't need subs to listen to Iwao Junko! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/noseblee.gif

[Mark]

[ QUOTE ]
The_Mahou said:
[ QUOTE ]
-maxa- said:
[ QUOTE ]
TalonG4 said:
[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it was pretty good (http://www.crystalacids.com/database/series/perfect_blue.html). Of course, ANYTHING with Ruby Marlowe is pretty good. /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel inclined to disagree.

coughrayearthcough

[/ QUOTE ]

And I feel inclined to disagree there. I rather liked the Rayearth dub, personally, rough as it was in some parts. Ruby Marlowe was actually one of my favorites.

[/ QUOTE ]

I loved Rayearth. I was hesitant to watch the dub because I loved it to much, but I was happy to see a job well done. I never once had a bad thought about the dub at all.

[O-chan]

[ QUOTE ]
Mark said:
[ QUOTE ]
The_Mahou said:
[ QUOTE ]
-maxa- said:
[ QUOTE ]
TalonG4 said:
[ QUOTE ]
AbeChinchilla said:
Satoshi Kon's Perfect Blue was a Manga release, must have had a HORRIBLE dub.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually it was pretty good (http://www.crystalacids.com/database/series/perfect_blue.html). Of course, ANYTHING with Ruby Marlowe is pretty good. /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel inclined to disagree.

coughrayearthcough

[/ QUOTE ]

And I feel inclined to disagree there. I rather liked the Rayearth dub, personally, rough as it was in some parts. Ruby Marlowe was actually one of my favorites.

[/ QUOTE ]

I loved Rayearth. I was hesitant to watch the dub because I loved it to much, but I was happy to see a job well done. I never once had a bad thought about the dub at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought Wendee Lee's Umi was a bit too hyper.

O-chan