Live action dubbing

[Animebox]

If you ask me, and I know this is a anime forum and all, but I wish people would start noticing how good live action dubs are nowadays and that in reality, they are generally more impressive than dubs for animation.

The works of Kyle Jones (in my opinion the single best ADR writer and director on ADV) are at their highest on his live action dubs which are amazing. Also, dubs for movies like Time and Tide, Kung Fu Hustle, So Close, JSA, etc... which are incredible. Spot on acting, casting, and all while having near perfect lip synch (something that is incredible when you actually think about it).

A shame that these works which are far more difficult to produce and are actually better than anime dubs are not being noticed enough.

A real shame and I would wish there would be people that are more open to see them for themselves and notice that they are that damn good and support them.

BTW ADV, when you do a live action dub, don't get anyone else other than Kyle Jones on them. No Blood No Tears' dub was atrocious.

[Brent Long]

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Animebox said:BTW ADV, when you do a live action dub, don't get anyone else other than Kyle Jones on them. No Blood No Tears' dub was atrocious.

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Who directed it anyway? Did Kyle direct Shinobi, Jungle Juice, and/or all the other recent Korean stuff at ADV?

I also am hoping that Kyle gets more noticed for his abilities with live action as well. The dub of Conduct Zero was absolutely flawless and I really like it that it's him who has this ability since nearly all of his dubs have very accurate credits listing the most minor of chracters with very little listings of "Additional Voices". This is especially good for live action since there are usually more characters that are difficult to identify and may have memorable enough performances that you'd want to find out their names.

Carl Macek also did a good job at both writing and directing live action too with 2009: Lost Memories and Yesterday which were both very good.

[Animebox]

I'm so glad someone else notices Kyle's talents. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif I was worring ever since I read that stupid review of Conduct Zero on this site where it was bashed. Then again, I barely agree on anything that particular reviewer writes, but I digress...

Kyle Jones didn't do Jungle Juice, which btw was not bad, but not at the level of excellence that Kyle Jones brings. I believe it was Jin Ho Chung directing it with Tiffany Grant handling a surprisingly decent adaptation.

As far as I know, Kyle Jones' live action dub credits are Gamera 2 & 3, Conduct Zero, Dark Water, Guns & Talks, and all, except the last, of the Shinobi films.

The Shinobi films are crap, but I only bought them because I saw Kyle Jones' name on the back of the DVD (much like I do with anything else he does). The dubs on them are typically excellent, but honestly whose idea was it to give him those films should rethink the whole situation. Instead of wasting his amazing talents on crap films like Shinobi, he should have gotten the gigs to do the dubs for films like No Blood No Tears (which Charles Cambell directed and someone else writing the script) and Public Enemy instead.

Carl Macek did fantastic stuff on his two live action dub jobs for ADV. He was the only other guy that I would place that is as good on dubbing with Kyle Jones that works on ADV but since he doesn't work there anymore, well. I will say that I did see a bit of the last Shinobi film which wasn't directed by Kyle. I was curious to check it out since the dub was being directed by John Swasey (one of my fav VA) and someone else doing the adaptation. Much to my surprise, the result was something very Kyle Jones' like in quality! I would've seen more of it but the films were so crap, I couldn't bare to.

Going back to Kyle Jones, it was a smart move that ADV got him to do Dark Water. No doubt the biggest live action title they released, due to the remake, getting him to do that property was smart. I noticed the same with anime that ADV produces they usually get him to handle the dub like Kino's Journey and Samurai Gun. But it would be smarter if they have him work on mostly the live action films in order to keep consistency. How you can have something as beautiful like his work on Guns and Talks and then also be the same company that releases something virtually unwatchable like No Blood No Tears' dub is beyond me.

So ADV, get Kyle Jones to do your live action dubs. For plan B, since Carl ain't around anymore, then get John Swasey and that other guy who worked with him on the last Shinobi film. It wouldn't be smart to have anyone else do them unless they've been through some Kyle Jones' class on how to dub right. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[populuxe]

This was a new topic entirely, instead of addressing the original question of the future of anime dubbing, so I split it off and made it it's own thread.

[DKL]

I thought that the dub for INFERNAL AFFAIRS was pretty amazing *although, the translation is really loose*

But damn, I was impressed *it's singapore based too... yay*

I actually like live-action dubs, I don't like the ones where they try to force accents too hard though

*like... Zatouichi... didn't float well with me*

The most recent one I heard was for OLD BOY *I watched it subbed though*

But I tuned in and listened... it was pretty good... can we mention the cast for it? *I'm assuming no*

[Animebox]

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I thought that the dub for INFERNAL AFFAIRS was pretty amazing *although, the translation is really loose*


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You are talking about the English dub that was on the American DVD. That dub was produced by the actual Hong Kong company themselves, not Miramax. As such, the adaptation was actually dead accurate to the original Chinese dialog. The thing is, Miramax made up the subtitles for the American release. In other words, what is being said in Chinese is not being translated on the subtitles for the American release. That's why the dialog is so different between both and why people think the dub is inaccurate when in reality it's very accurate and it's the subtitles that are fake.

Get the UK oir HK DVDs if you want an accurate English subtitle translation.

Golden rule: Never buy a live action Asian film from Miramax or anything that has the Weinstein brothers behind it. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

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I actually like live-action dubs, I don't like the ones where they try to force accents too hard though

*like... Zatouichi... didn't float well with me*

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That dub was made by the usual group that Miramax/Dimension hires. Those dubs are always bad.

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The most recent one I heard was for OLD BOY *I watched it subbed though*

But I tuned in and listened... it was pretty good... can we mention the cast for it? *I'm assuming no*

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Old Boy's dub was great.

One thing that bothers me is that for a lot of these fantastic English dubs they almost never put up a credits list (e.e. Time and Tide, So Close, Kung Fu Hustle) but the really bad ones, like from Miramax/Dimension, they almost always do.
/images/graemlins/depresse.gif

[DKL]

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Animebox said:
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I thought that the dub for INFERNAL AFFAIRS was pretty amazing *although, the translation is really loose*


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You are talking about the English dub that was on the American DVD. That dub was produced by the actual Hong Kong company themselves, not Miramax. As such, the adaptation was actually dead accurate to the original Chinese dialog. The thing is, Miramax made up the subtitles for the American release. In other words, what is being said in Chinese is not being translated on the subtitles for the American release. That's why the dialog is so different between both and why people think the dub is inaccurate when in reality it's very accurate and it's the subtitles that are fake.

Get the UK oir HK DVDs if you want an accurate English subtitle translation.



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OH HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You serious? THEY MADE IT UP!?

You sure?

Anyway, I just read reviews, and that's what everyone's saying... since I don't have the DVD or can't speak chinese, can't be too sure you know

Also, I think it's SINGAPORE based isn't it? *it isn't?*

Because I've heard one of the actors in ANIMAX productions *which are also based in SINGAPORE... at least, I think they are*

Anyway, I'm in shock, but I'm kinda skeptical too... so yeah, enlighten me further

[Clint]

This teaches a valuable lesson.
Subtitles are not absolute!

[DKL]

I actually kinda started doubting it when I went over that whole GUNGRAVE thing *which, by the way, no one brings up :/ *

But still... I'm kinda surprised... can anyone else confirm this?

[Rory]

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DKL said:
I actually kinda started doubting it when I went over that whole GUNGRAVE thing *which, by the way, no one brings up :/ *

But still... I'm kinda surprised... can anyone else confirm this?

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All right, I'll bite. What GUNGRAVE thing? Granted, I've only listened to it in English, but I am curious.

[Animebox]

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Anyway, I'm in shock, but I'm kinda skeptical too... so yeah, enlighten me further

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Miramax has been doing this for quite some time now. They have stopped making obvious alterations in the forms of cuts and music changes and now are just altering Chinese films via fake subtitles on their last few releases that included subtitles.

Simple rule. Stay away from Miramax when it comes to Chinese films. They are a disgusting company in their direct insult of these films and they way they treat them.

BTW, I don't know about the Gungrave thing either.

[tstidm1]

Live Action Dubbing is very hard to do. Ask people like Richard Epcar who direct them. One of the worst dubs I have ever heard is Iron Chef. Their timing is off and I am not sure whether they make up the script totally on that show. I am not talking about Iron Chef America.

[porkchopexpress]

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Redneck Otaku said:
One of the worst dubs I have ever heard is Iron Chef. Their timing is off and I am not sure whether they make up the script totally on that show.

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I always thought that was on purpose. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[DKL]

I found the dub for the IRON CHEF show energetic, if anything

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The GUNGRAVE thing... sorry it took this long... I've been watching the hell out of the ELFEN LIED DVDs I got over the past 3 days... I've seen it multiple times so... you know ^_^;

ANYWAY...

Notice how people were screaming LIBERTIES at the top of their lungs when the dub of GUNGRAVE is brought up...

had people paid more attention when they watched the show subbed *I have... yay, DTS is awesome*

They would've noticed some things... go back to the first disc of the series

SPOILERS AHOY

<span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'> If you read the part where MIKA is talking about what happened, she says that TOKIOKA (the butler) was "shot" but later on when we revisit the incident *and the story unfolds more* the subs were ALTERED

Also, in the last episode HARRY claims that he has "never taken a bullet" before (something like that) but in the subs on the first disc, he was "shot" by someone in Deed's gang... *which wasn't possible since no one had a gun and Deed was still having his ass served to him by his brother*

the dub didn't run into these contradictions even if they did take liberties and managed to work around stuff like that (from what my several viewings could tell anyway)

but people tend to overlook this </span>

People would go "it's just two lines"... but think about it... people are hard on dubs too when they botch/change some stuff

but since I'm not too anal, I don't really mind stuff like that... anyway...

It has probably happened with other shows, but I'm not too sure... but the thing is, it has taught me that subs aren't always absolute...

... don't get me wrong though, I trust the R1 companies to do a good job, I was just pointing this... whaddya call those things? Paradox?

Well, anyway... THAT was the GUNGRAVE thing

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I thought that the dubs for the JACKIE CHAN movies were pretty cool... does SAMMO do his own voice too?

[Animebox]

I'm sorry DKL, but was that last part a real question? I thought it was just some sign off comment and missed it the first time. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[DKL]

I was fairly sure that JACKIE CHAN and SAMMO HUNG did their own voices in dubs... *sometimes*

can't be too sure though

[Animebox]

Jackie Chan has done his own voice in some of the Dimension dubs. However, Sammo Hung has never done his own voice.

Kind of a shame that Jackie Chan supplied his voice with the dubbing hacks who work at Dimension and not the studio that Columbia hires that makes those incredible dub jobs.

I wonder if New Police Story is gonna get cut up. He did his own voice for the English dub of that (whenever it comes out).

[DKL]

... I actually did like POLICE STORY 2's dub... floated with me quite well

Wait, was that it? Anyway, it aired on SPIKE TV

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So who did Sammo's voice in THE PRISONER? *doubt I'll ever know the answer*

I only thought it was him, but I was probably wrong

[Animebox]

It couldn't have been any of the Police Stories. What Spike TV is airing are the titles that Miramax owned.

BTW, any of you who watch anime dubs here should be able to recognize a lot of the voice actors on the more recent live action dubs (aside from the ADV releases of course). This happens to me all the time. The thing is, there are rarely ever any credits at all for the dub production. So the excellent ADR directors and writers are never known, but you can play the voice actors by ear and see if you catch any.

For example, I frequently hear Kirk Thornton in dubs like JSA and Miramax's dub for Iron Monkey (shame the dub was based on Miramax's made up subtitles as Kirk was a fantastic English voice for Yu Rong Gwong).

Another person, whom I never heard on a live action before and was surprised to hear, is Crispin Freeman. He was on the English language version of Oldboy. I also recognize the voice of the person that did the main character but don't know his name.

[DKL]

Michael McConnohie, right?

As for POLICE STORY... I think it was... no, I dunno. It's the one where:

<span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'> Jackie Chan has this bomb strapped onto him at one point </span>

I'm also sure that he did his own voice (I could be wrong)

But the scene where he busted into the police station was pretty intense

As far as accuracy goes... well, I wouldn't know, but I was definitely very comfortable with the acting

[Animebox]

Yeah yeah, Michael McConnohie. I recognized his voice just didn't know his name. Very cool. Did you recognize who did Mi-Do? She also sounds very familiar to me. I mentioned Kirk Thornton back up there, and he was also in Oldboy'd English dub. I forgot his name but he did the guy with the gold teeth.

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As for POLICE STORY... I think it was... no, I dunno. It's the one where:

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From what you describe that is Police Story 2. Hmmm, did you see it recently on Spike because they've only been showing Miramax's HK films. The first two Police Stories were owned by New Line and the dubs that were used was produced by them as well.

As far as who did his voice, that was not him. He is one of two frequent actors who are almost always used to "imitate" Jackie's voice when they make new dubs of his films (the other one you can hear on Miramax's Crime Story and their first Project A dubs). Personally, I think they both stink. The best person to imitate Jackie and sound the most like him without it being distracting at all was in the English dub of Vampire Effect. The person who did him there was a really good impersonator and did it with class I thought. Shame the film was heavily cut because the dub was excellent.

By the way, one thing I noticed is that during the earlier nineties Golden Harvest started to employ LA talent to dub their HK films and the dubs were much better than the 80s dubs that were being done. I've always tried to find out more info but wasn't able to find anything but Doug Stone Enterprises was used to dub a couple of Hong Kong films back in the early 90s. Lots of voice actors that would be recognizable to any dub fan were in them. My favorite of the Doug Stone Hong Kong dubs is the original English dub for Jackie Chan's City Hunter (this dub is NOT on the recent US FOX disc and sadly uses a recent one produced by the Hong Kong company that is greatly inferior to the original dub).

I wondered though, is Doug Stone of the Doug Stone Enterprises the same person as the voice actor?

[DKL]

Anyway, I'm confused with all the info... it's all over the place especially since Live-Action dubbing isn't credited all the time *can't find any info either*

As for what I saw on SPIKE TV, I dunno, I wasn't actually watching the movie, I was just paying attention to the dub... and yes, it was recent *to when this thread was created anyway*

I found it quite good to be honest, and again, the scene where Jackie busts into the building with the bomb floated with me quite well... it was just really intense

And that one scene where they capture Jackie and his lady friend was nice... I liked how the guys in the background flowed well together with their conversation

The fight dubbing was also pretty neat.

... ANYWAY, who did the dub? NEWLINE? Who'd they use?

It wasn't an LA one was it? *didn't sound that way*

... this is just really confusing since there apparently have been multiple dubs of everything o_o

For all I know, we could be seeing different things

[Animebox]

No it's the same version. What's being shown on US TV is only that. I was just surprised it was shown on Spike since the first two Police Story films are New Line's and Spike's made a deal with Miramax to show their stuff.

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Anyway, I'm confused with all the info... it's all over the place especially since Live-Action dubbing isn't credited all the time *can't find any info either*

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It's annoying as hell I know. Rarely do live action dubs get any credit. Ironically it's usually the best ones that don't get any credit at all and finding info about them is next to impossible unless you know people in the industry. But for what it's worth, at least there is a thread here for it.

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I found it quite good to be honest, and again, the scene where Jackie busts into the building with the bomb floated with me quite well... it was just really intense

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I haven't seen New Line's dub in a while but I do remember enough to know that it's definitely a better dub than the other redub of the film than the recent Hong Kong produced English dub of it which is quite dire. One thing that the New Line dub misses out on though is the mute fighter's noises that he mouths. Don't know why they didn't dub them in at all as it makes no sense why he is opening his mouth or why Jackie mocks him later on in their fight.

The thing that I never really liked about it though was the guy who does Jackie's voice. He really sounds nothing like Jackie and he just goes too over the top at times. He's frequently hired to dub Asian actors when they want an accent on them, but he never is a good choice for anyone. The worst casting choice that was given to him was him doing Andy Lau's voice on the English dub for House of Flying Daggers. Because of him, I think the dub should be avoided which is a shame since the other two leads were very well casted and the dub in general is very good.

Back on Police Story 2, what I never heard was the original English dub of the film which I think was probably only released in England on VHS years ago. It would be interesting to see how that one compares.

By the way, in case you didn't know, New Line's version of PS2 is cut and the music is totally different.

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It wasn't an LA one was it? *didn't sound that way*


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I believe it was LA actually.

Just a reminder, I had some questions in my last post, know anything about them? /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[DKL]

... nope, don't know the answers *it's all still confusing... but I'm assuming that the name is... a coincidence? ... can we go ask? o_o *

Anyway, today, I saw the dubs for the newer GODZILLA movies on the SCI-FI channel... so yeah, they have the ANIMAX regulars I was a fan of back in the Philippines... so... I'm assuming it was made in SINGAPORE

I thought that they did a competent job considering the subject matter... the delivery was okay *if anything, this is a lot better than the old dubs which were... ehhh...*

In the newer movie anyway... with the 3 guardian monster things... I really liked the part with the two guys in the helicopter where they were presenting the coverage of one of the fights, they had some interesting dialogue with eachother...

the delivery would get awkward though mainly because of the pauses that commander dude would make (which, looked awkward too actually)

... it was fun, if anything, but then, it's not the best place to judge the overall talent

Or, it could be that the acting sucks, but then I just lowered my standards because of the movie... who knows...

What do you guys think?

[Animebox]

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Anyway, today, I saw the dubs for the newer GODZILLA movies on the SCI-FI channel... so yeah, they have the ANIMAX regulars I was a fan of back in the Philippines... so... I'm assuming it was made in SINGAPORE


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Hmmm...which Godzilla movie was it. Do you catch the name?

Animax? Is that the official name for the group? If that is the case, then that could be the same dub group that the Hong Kong companies employ to do their English dubs (Media Asia and Fortune Star). What else do you know about them?

[DKL]

Actually, ANIMAX is the 24-hour a day anime channel I got back in the Philippines...

It could be that the dubs are produced in HONG KONG... but it seems that they are indeed produced in SINGAPORE *like, the INFERNAL AFFAIRS dub*

Proof of this came from when I talked with someone over at dubreview from SINGAPORE, who was initially surprised to learn that ANIMAX made dubs from his local country...

Eventually though, he met someone that worked as a sound technician at the place...

So... I assume that the regulars they have are all from SINGAPORE... and I linked this with the INFERNAL AFFAIRS dub mainly since I heard 1 or 2 voices that were regulars at ANIMAX (the police captain... dude *who got owned later on* was in the ANIMAX version of GITS:SAC for about 2 episodes for example... it's not a voice I can easily forget)

Or it could be, they're from HONG KONG, and then they fly the masters over... it's really confusing, I don't fully know the truth of the thing

Anyway, according to the guy at dubreview, the actors seem to just audition for the anime dubs on the channel...

What I'm saying is that... some live-action movies here *like the newer GODZILLA ones* have the ANIMAX regulars I was quite fond of back home...

As to which movie... hold on...

... I think it was this one:

"Godzilla vs. Megaguirus"

there was another one...

... anyway, they had two in a row... although, like most ANIMAX productions I remember, the actual voice cast is quite small so they recycle a lot *actually, both movies have the same cast &gt;_&gt; *

Some of them have good range though

...

yup, like I thought, live-action dubbing is incredibly hard to discuss because of all the confusion /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

[Animebox]

So then we are talking about the same group. That group you are talking about is the same group that Hong Kong companies and Toho hire to dub their films for export. Specifically talking about Toho, they been using them since the late 80's at least. People who watch any Godzilla dub from the late 80s to now will notice them imedditadly (they are not well liked).

But I never knew they also dubbed anime. Again, it's mostly likely the Japanese company that hires them to dub it but when it gets licenced they redub them. So those dubs are rare in those cases, not necessarily good, but rare.

I am guessing that the group is based in Hong Kong. A lot of dubs from the old days (bad kung fu dubs, and bad Godzilla dubs) were all made from groups based in Hong Kong. I don't think the situation has changed since then and this groups is still being hired to dub stuff for them. That place must get a ton of work if they are basically dubbing for almost all the films from two countries.

Just to give you an idea, Media Asia hired them to redub virtually their entire catalog of films (almost 300 hundred). When Fortune Star picked up that same catalog, they rehired the same group to redub the same catalog. /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif Keep in mind that it's almost always the same 5 people on each of those dubs. It's no surprise that their dubs suck (no offense DKL).

Quick side note though, if ANIMAX is a channel, they also hire them to dub things or what? Don't understand that exactly.

[DKL]

... actually, you totally lost me &gt;_&gt;

All I know is that ANIMAX hires out what I assume are SINGAPORE actors, and that... they're not necessarily affiliated with a Japanese group or something...

The guy over at dubreview sort of confirmed this to me...

Anyway, the main problem with ANIMAX dubs was all the recycling and inconsistency

But from time to time, they'd pull gold out of their ass *meaning, on specific episodes where everyone was just feeling it*... but it was very sparse though, which was too bad

... but yeah, I'm really confused at this point with what we're talking about

[Animebox]

Hmm, I guess since we two are the only ones shooting the breeze the thread can seem a bit random. Let me try to focus it a bit. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

With the group that you were talking about before, the one that ANIMAX hires, that same group is the group that I mentioned before that is typically hired by Japanese (Toho) and Hong Kong (Media Asia and Fortune Star) companies to produce English dubs for export. I knew they did a large body of work since they dubbed almost the entire Media Asia catalog and then redubbed that entire catalog again when Fortune Star took over the Hong Kong films that Media Asia used to own.

I didn't know about them working for Toho until I happen by some Godzilla films and noticed that it's the same voice actors from those (horrible) dubs. Anyone who's seen the English dubs on the Godzilla films in the Millennium series (with the exception of Godzilla 2000) will hear the same group.

Then I happened to hear Gunhed and when I heard the English dub there, it was the same exact group again. This proved two things to me. How long they have been working (since the Gunhed film goes some good years back) and that they indeed work for Toho all this time.

Now that you mention they also dub anime and these dubs are shown in the Philippines then this may be the most nonstop working dub team on the planet. Doesn't mean they are good at all though. In fact they are quite terrible. It's kinda sad I think that this group churns out crappy quality and still gets work time and time again simply because of the system that exists in Asia apparently. /images/graemlins/sad.gif

Now, there is something else on my mind with the Oldboy English dub. Using the one name you gave me DKL (thanks for that), this is what I got so far:

Michael McConnohie - Oh Dae-su
Crispin Freeman - Lee Woo-jin
Kirk Thornton - Mr. Park (the man with the gold teeth)

I know that's nothing, but hey! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif There are other names that I definitely recognize, but I don't know the names off the top of my head. For example Lee's assistant is DEFENTLY familiar to my ears. I would have to do some searching. DKL, or anyone else here, would you be of help? Anyone know who did the voice of Mi-do?

[fantasydewdrop]

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Animebox said:
My favorite of the Doug Stone Hong Kong dubs is the original English dub for Jackie Chan's City Hunter (this dub is NOT on the recent US FOX disc and sadly uses a recent one produced by the Hong Kong company that is greatly inferior to the original dub).

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Is there any DVD disk out in any region that has the original City Hunter live action dub? I only heard a few minutes of the newer dub before switching it to Chinese, but I'd like to try the older one sometime. Especially if Jackie/someone that sounds similar to Jackie does the voice for Ryo. (The main reason I switched audio tracks was because it was so sureal to hear a non-Jackieish voice come out of Jackie's mouth.)