Cagliostro confusion - please help

[fred796]

I recently went to the trouble of getting the Mange Ent. version of The Castle of Cagliostro imported from America, via United Publications, because I'd read on the UKanime website that it had has just been re-released by Optimum Releasing with a brand new dub. The DVD arrived today but unfortunately it's turned out not to be the version that I've seen before - not only is the voice acting inferior but the dialogue is different as well. Just how many English dubs are there for this film? I want the one that was shown on the Sci-Fi channel in the UK a few years back in which Lupin III is called 'Wolf'. The trouble is, I'm pretty sure that was also a Manga Ent. release.

If anyone can shed any light on this matter, I'd be much obliged. Thanks.

[Mr. Nail Bat]

[ QUOTE ]
fred796 said:
I recently went to the trouble of getting the Mange Ent. version of The Castle of Cagliostro imported from America, via United Publications, because I'd read on the UKanime website that it had has just been re-released by Optimum Releasing with a brand new dub. The DVD arrived today but unfortunately it's turned out not to be the version that I've seen before - not only is the voice acting inferior but the dialogue is different as well. Just how many English dubs are there for this film? I want the one that was shown on the Sci-Fi channel in the UK a few years back in which Lupin III is called 'Wolf'. The trouble is, I'm pretty sure that was also a Manga Ent. release.

If anyone can shed any light on this matter, I'd be much obliged. Thanks.

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I hadn't heard of a new dub. The only dubs I'm aware of are the original Streamline dub (Bob Bergen as Lupin, IIRC) and the Animaze dub for Manga (David Hayter as Lupin).

I believe that the R2 Japanese release contains the Streamline dub, but I might be totally wrong.

[Njr Scrawl]

There was a thread in the R2E/R4 forum. IIRC the Optimum release uses Streamline's dub, so possibly "Wolf" is used as in the other S/l LIII dubs released in the 80s.

Old dubs never die, they simply get re-licensed /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ic14]

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fred796 said: I want the one that was shown on the Sci-Fi channel in the UK a few years back in which Lupin III is called 'Wolf'. The trouble is, I'm pretty sure that was also a Manga Ent. release.

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Thatll be the dub thats on the Optimum dvd /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[fred796]

It turns out that there are three English dubs of The Castle of Cagliostro - it was redubbed yet again for the recently released Optimum version. I can't comment on that one because I haven't heard it yet, but what I can say is that the Animaze dub is, when compared to Streamline's marvellous effort, IMHO vastly inferior. The voice actors for Jeegan and 'Wolf'/Lupin totally lacked the charm and humour of their Streamline predecessors. I suppose it might be OK if you did't know what you were missing.

The good news is that Geodude is quite correct in his belief that the Japanese R2 version contains the English Streamline dub.

link to bootleg deleted

The Japanese menus aren't too difficult to navigate - option 2 on the main menu is for the audio/language sub-menu; once there, select option 3 for the English (1 & 2 are the Japanese Stereo and Mono), then at the bottom of the screen you'll see 3 more options. Choose the one in the right hand corner to play the movie. Just remember: 2-3-3.

Fred

[roastedpekingduck]

...Dude, thats not the R2. That's the bootleg. The R2 would not have Chinese subtitles. Manga Anime Cartoon is also a known bootleg publisher. It also is region free.

[ic14]

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it was redubbed yet again for the recently released Optimum version

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Fine. Whatever. Evidence points to it been the streamline dub.

[fred796]

From ukanime.com: "New Review - posted at 07:43:05 PM, October 29, 2005, by Chris Hall"

"I love Lupin III but judging by MVM's decision not to keep releasing it in this country, not enough of you share this love. At least Optimum have given Miyazaki's Castle of Cagliostro a shiny restoration and re-released it."

Review - http://www.ukanime.com/template2.php?page=review.php&id=283


I really hope your right about the Optimum version. Has anyone here seen it yet? Obviously I'd prefer a copy with English menus, etc - even if the box art isn't half as good.

If it does contain the streamline dub, then why does Chris Hall refer to the lead character in is review as Lupin III and not 'Wolf'?

The confusion continues.

[fred796]

roastedpekingduck: "The R2 would not have Chinese subtitles. Manga Anime Cartoon is also a known bootleg publisher."

Oh dear, really? Isn't that kind of illeagal? I did wonder what happened to the second disc that was mentioned in the review of the R2 at nausicaa.net. I can confirm that some of the menus are in Kanji, as well as Katakana/Hiragana. I would never have guessed - The disc art and box art were all immaculate.

[MegsLeigh]

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fred796 said:
If it does contain the streamline dub, then why does Chris Hall refer to the lead character in is review as Lupin III and not 'Wolf'?

The confusion continues.

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Well, no matter what, the character is Lupin III. If this reviewer knows that, then he's probably referring to Lupin by his proper name. "Wolf" isn't his name at all - it was just Streamline's way of eluding the Lupin copyright issues going on at the time.

[Animebox]

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I can't comment on that one because I haven't heard it yet, but what I can say is that the Animaze dub is, when compared to Streamline's marvellous effort, IMHO vastly inferior. The voice actors for Jeegan and 'Wolf'/Lupin totally lacked the charm and humour of their Streamline predecessors. I suppose it might be OK if you did't know what you were missing

[/ QUOTE ]

I've say it before and I'll say it again. Steamline's Lupin cast is the DEFEINTIVE Lupin cast. Yes, they are even better than the Japanese originals.

However, I have to say, that in a few cases I do prefer Animaze's dub script over the Streamline version for this movie.

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If it does contain the streamline dub, then why does Chris Hall refer to the lead character in is review as Lupin III and not 'Wolf'?

[/ QUOTE ]

He obviously just listened to the Japanese track with English subtitles. His review doesn't even acknowledge the presence of an English track on either the Optimum disc or the old Manga one because he is an elitest no doubt. It's unfortunate thing that about 99% of reviewers online are like this as countary to what they think, they end up being little help.

Let me just clear all confusing:

The Manga DVD has the new Animaze dub.
The Japanese and UK Optimum DVD contain the Streamline dub.

There is no third dub of the film.

[ObiKenobi]

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Animebox said:
I've say it before and I'll say it again. Steamline's Lupin cast is the DEFEINTIVE Lupin cast. Yes, they are even better than the Japanese originals.

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Eh, better than Manga's dub but far, far inferior to Yamada Yasuo and gang. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[JTurner]

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Animebox said:
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I can't comment on that one because I haven't heard it yet, but what I can say is that the Animaze dub is, when compared to Streamline's marvellous effort, IMHO vastly inferior. The voice actors for Jeegan and 'Wolf'/Lupin totally lacked the charm and humour of their Streamline predecessors. I suppose it might be OK if you did't know what you were missing

[/ QUOTE ]

I've say it before and I'll say it again. Steamline's Lupin cast is the DEFEINTIVE Lupin cast. Yes, they are even better than the Japanese originals.

However, I have to say, that in a few cases I do prefer Animaze's dub script over the Streamline version for this movie.

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If it does contain the streamline dub, then why does Chris Hall refer to the lead character in is review as Lupin III and not 'Wolf'?

[/ QUOTE ]

He obviously just listened to the Japanese track with English subtitles. His review doesn't even acknowledge the presence of an English track on either the Optimum disc or the old Manga one because he is an elitest no doubt. It's unfortunate thing that about 99% of reviewers online are like this as countary to what they think, they end up being little help.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is precisely why I strongly refuse to take anything negative that such reviewers say about dubs, because I feel that it is undeserved.

Back to the matter at hand; I haven't heard the Streamline dub of this movie, so I don't know how better or worse it is, but I found the AniMaze dub to be quite enjoyable, despite being a little too profane. I'm actually a bit puzzled about why Optimum didn't use this dub for their R2 DVD release.

-Jon T.

[Animebox]

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Eh, better than Manga's dub but far, far inferior to Yamada Yasuo and gang.

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No.

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I'm actually a bit puzzled about why Optimum didn't use this dub for their R2 DVD release.

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Because Manga owns the rights to the Animaze dub.

[abigsmurf]

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Animebox said:
He obviously just listened to the Japanese track with English subtitles. His review doesn't even acknowledge the presence of an English track on either the Optimum disc or the old Manga one because he is an elitest no doubt. It's unfortunate thing that about 99% of reviewers online are like this as countary to what they think, they end up being little help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably best to remember that the staff pretty much every British news site are active on this forum /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The Wolf/Lupin thing is a relic. The character IS Lupin; the press releases and accompanying material refer to him as such (in fact they don't even mention the name Wolf), he's widely known as such through-out the series and in the manga. He's one of the most famous male characters in anime. Even the material accompanying the old VHS copy said that 'Wolf' is only an alias for Lupin.

I don't consider myself an elitist at all when it comes to dubs and make it policy to watch films all the way through in whatever the default is on a disk (usually, but not always dubs) unless I find I can't stomach the dub. The last series I watched where I couldn't take the dub and switched was Love Hina.

I've also found, partially due to the same selection of actors appearing in most series, that it's exceptionally difficult to talk about dubs and boring to read about, especially when most reviewers who do talk in detail about them require the reader to know who various VA's are. In general unless a dub is especially good or bad, they rank alongside "clean op/end + trailers" as extras in how much converage I give them.

As regards as to not mentioning the dub (which incidently I did love, it's gloriously cheesy style perfectly complements the film. How the VA for Zenigata managed to keep a straight face delivering his final line I don't know). Having owned the original Manga Ent. tape, I simply assumed, wrongly, that the DVD from them had the same dub. After all, using a new dub for a budget release is more than slightly unusual (and I didn't have the, now discontinued, disc to check).

[Animebox]

Then my apologies if you aren't allergic to dubs. The fact that you did not mention the existence of a dub on the disc was an echo of actions that is only exhibited by known elitest online, which are most of the reviewers on the net. That is why I thought that.

However, it is still a valid point that by not mentioning the dub or any info on it (not talking about your opinions of it), it renders your review less useful than it should be, evidenced by the existence of this thread.

[Legion]

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Animebox said:
Then my apologies if you aren't allergic to dubs. The fact that you did not mention the existence of a dub on the disc was an echo of actions that is only exhibited by known elitest online, which are most of the reviewers on the net. That is why I thought that.

However, it is still a valid point that by not mentioning the dub or any info on it (not talking about your opinions of it), it renders your review less useful than it should be, evidenced by the existence of this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh... ow. That was so over-generalized and just plain wrong that it hurt. It actually hurt.

[populuxe]

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Legion said:
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Animebox said:
Then my apologies if you aren't allergic to dubs. The fact that you did not mention the existence of a dub on the disc was an echo of actions that is only exhibited by known elitest online, which are most of the reviewers on the net. That is why I thought that.

However, it is still a valid point that by not mentioning the dub or any info on it (not talking about your opinions of it), it renders your review less useful than it should be, evidenced by the existence of this thread.

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Oh... ow. That was so over-generalized and just plain wrong that it hurt. It actually hurt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I understand what you're objecting to. Animebox apologized for his incorrect assumption, and stood by his belief that not mentioning the dub in the review made the review less useful than it could have been. What is so wrong about that that it hurts?

[Legion]

Maybe I'm not reading it right, but it seems to me that he feels reviews should always mention the dub and if they don't they're not as useful as they should be and automatically state an elitist bias. I don't agree with that one bit. Heck, there's reviews over at Anime Jump by Mike Toole that don't mention the voice acting one little bit. Does Toole have an elitist anit-dub bias? Hell no, and the reviews at that site are among the most useful on the net. I find reviews that focus on the show itself without mentioning the voice acting and whatnot can be a nice change in perspective. If I want to know about the dubbing and a particular review doesn't mention it, I don't have to look very far to find one that does.

[populuxe]

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Legion said:
Maybe I'm not reading it right, but it seems to me that he feels reviews should always mention the dub and if they don't they're not as useful as they should be and automatically state an elitist bias.

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I agree with the first belief, but not the second.

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Legion said:
If I want to know about the dubbing and a particular review doesn't mention it, I don't have to look very far to find one that does.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've just answered my question. If you have to look elsewhere, then the review wasn't as useful as it could have been.

[Animebox]

Thanks Mike. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[Legion]

Well, again, maybe I'm mis-reading this, but talking about the dub should be up to the reviewers discretion. He/she shouldn't be expected to talk about the voice acting, and I don't think a review should be considered less valid or not useful if it doesn't. That doesn't strike me as fair at all. Especially on AOD where it's rare for reviews to talk about the voice acting, Japanese or English. Heck, the last review for AOD that mentioned dubbing was Eva Platinum and that caused a fair bit of backlash because his comments were not positive. Sooo... damned if you do, damned if you don't?

Maybe it's just me, but if I'm researching opinions on anime, I want as many different viewpoints as possible and expecting all those viewpoints to include dub info, again, strikes me as unfair. In the end, the part that "hurts" is not the "less useful" aspect so much as the "automatic elitist bias" aspect.

[populuxe]

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Legion said:
Maybe it's just me, but if I'm researching opinions on anime, I want as many different viewpoints as possible and expecting all those viewpoints to include dub info, again, strikes me as unfair. In the end, the part that "hurts" is not the "less useful" aspect so much as the "automatic elitist bias" aspect.

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We agree on the last part. On the other hand, if you're looking for different reviews to help you decide if you should buy a show or not, having different opinions on the dub is just as essential (to me at least) as having different opinions on the content or the quality of the animation.