Cheesecake romances/relationships: Why so many? [Archive]

Lego

12-19-2005, 01:23 AM

Topic May Contain Spoilers

Looking back at some of the shows that have aired in 2005, and some of my favorite anime shows in general, it got me thinking about how many "cheesecake" romances there are. When I say "cheesecake"(which although delicious also refers to a scantly clad woman), I mean romances/relationships where you have countless panty shots(the Love Hina treatment), or just one of those romances that you can see coming a mile away. Where the main guy admires the main girl from afar the whole series, and finally gets enough courage to ask here when the ideal event happens, the usual.

For instance, even though I'm a fan, something like Ah My Goddess. I'm a huge fan of the series, but the whole time it breaks down to them going back and forth, with the crew in risque outfits, or just that general "I love you" over and over. I guess you could say that I'm more of a fan of the "competitive" relationships. Sousuke and Kaname from Full Metal Panic, or a Souichirou and Yukino from Kare Kano(a battle of wits).

In recent shows(some of them harem, some not) it seems that the series is built around the guy gaining up enough courage to go confess to someone, or one where the girl is content in just being with the main character(ala Belldandy). Again, when this set up works, I'm a fan. I dunno if I have become tired of it, or I just want to see a role reversal/more combative characters. Kind of like a give and take.

something

12-19-2005, 01:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
Looking back at some of the shows that have aired in 2005, and some of my favorite anime shows in general, it got me thinking about how many "cheesecake" romances there are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure this just comes with the very concept of romance in entertainment generally =P

Lego

12-19-2005, 02:03 AM

Yeh, I know it's usual in almost every romance movie for the guy to chase the girl down, and plead his case. I'm interested, and would like to see a reversal of that. Or relationships like the ones that the characters share that I mentioned.

Although I know that some fans like shows and set ups like Ah My Goddess, or Tenchi. Again, I don't mind set ups like these. Tenchi had Ryoko, which was a interesting conflict of personalities.

Njr Scrawl

12-19-2005, 10:29 AM

You'll probably like Kimagure Orange Road then where the main male (Kyosuke) is always trying to impress (or feels he has to) the main female (Madoka), who is aloof to most guys. At the same time, her best friend (Hikaru) is trying to win his favour. He has to go along with it to stay cool with Madoka, & so the triangle goes. Its resolution in the first movie is pure human heartache drama.

Kimi ga Nozomu Eien (not R1 licensed) is about guilt, as a girl goes after a guy who was dating her friend before, but due to what happened, they can't get together & forget the past. The ending is either /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif or /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif , depending on your POV. Its more complicated than that but any more would be too spoiler.

something

12-19-2005, 10:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
Yeh, I know it's usual in almost every romance movie for the guy to chase the girl down, and plead his case. I'm interested, and would like to see a reversal of that.

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Hmm I think most shows the other way around just tend to involve really clingy and brashly forward women that attack the men flat out, like, yes, Ryoko from Tenchi, or Yurika from Nadesico (not that I'm saying I dislike either, they're great).

As for competitive relationships... maybe it's a stretch, but Jinto and Lafiel from * of the Stars kinda fits. Izumi and whatshisname from He Is My Master certainly have the competition going on, but then again calling them a couple is... a stretch /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif Midori in Midori no Hibi isn't on the same kind of competitive relationship, but she's certainly outgoing and more or less the one holding things together (although I'm reading the manga)

Edit: oh, best example... but I guess it's a spoiler depending on how much you know, but, in GTO... I'm not sure where to cut it off in terms of when it spoils but, if you've seen the anime, get the second half of the manga for: Onizuka and Urumi... No it's not an official *dating* relationship or anything, but their dynamic is incredible. Also, partly in the anime and well expanded in the continuing manga after the anime ends, Anko and whatshisname, although that one suffers from rediculous unbelievability early on, given what an astounding bitch Anko was to him. Once they finally do get "together" it's more even and interesting though.

Suwako Moriya

12-19-2005, 11:10 AM

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Wrath of the Njr said:The ending is either /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif or /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif , depending on your POV.

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As a fan of Haruka in Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, I fully support the ending. In case some don't get it. It's because she didn't up with Takayuki. Now she a reason to find a guy that's actually worthy of her.

Njr Scrawl

12-19-2005, 11:23 AM

That is a very...enlightening POV /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

I wanted Mitsuki to be happy as well, & think Takayuki is the only one who could cure her depression. But Haruka deserved better than that two-timing loser I agree. You have to be cruel to be kind sometimes /images/graemlins/cool.gif 

Unlike with KOR, neither girl is irritating. It makes taking sides that much harder. Of course some might prefer Akane, then or in Maniax /images/graemlins/devil.gif

Lego

12-19-2005, 03:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm I think most shows the other way around just tend to involve really clingy and brashly forward women that attack the men flat out, like, yes, Ryoko from Tenchi, or Yurika from Nadesico (not that I'm saying I dislike either, they're great).

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True, like the famous Naru Punch. I guess I'm just looking for the main character to be challanged sometimes. While I do agree that you get the usual banter of slapstick attacks or someone being a pain in the ass, it can work.

nakimushi

12-19-2005, 03:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
True, like the famous Naru Punch. I guess I'm just looking for the main character to be challanged sometimes. While I do agree that you get the usual banter of slapstick attacks or someone being a pain in the ass, it can work.

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Have you seen Hana Yori Dango (Boys over Flowers)? Granted it is a shoujo romance (drama) as opposed to shounen, but it is really good.

If you like strong-willed girls like Kaname from FMP, then you will probably like Tsukushi from HanaDan. The romance here is a real battle of wills, among various other "battles".

 I also found it to be very unpredictable. I don't know if I'm particularly dense, but I did not start to think that Tsukushi would end up with the boy she did until well past the half point of the series. I thought he was a better match, but I was expecting her to choose the other boy, just like Meiko did in Marmalade Boy. I was pleasantly surprised by who she ended up with (and how she finally ends up with him).

DanielJr

12-19-2005, 03:54 PM

We need more stuff like Maison Ikkoku! A more realistic type of romance, and pretty engaging too.

Lego

12-19-2005, 04:19 PM

I'll respond to both of you in one post.

Boys over flowers and Mansion Ikkoku are two good examples of what I'm trying to go on about. I'm not saying that I hate all Belldandy and Keichi type relationships. I'm saying that it seems that they are prevalent in recent shows, and sometimes it's nice to have a engaging or combative relationship between characters.

You know a kind of back and forth, again I find myself going back to something like Kare Kano.

Sheena

12-19-2005, 05:31 PM

I think the answer is that it's a lot easier to make cheesecake romances than complex ones. Look at Honey and Clover, there are a lot of circumstances in the romances involved and that makes the meat of the story of the show and a good reason for why it's so good.

When writers don't come up with something quite as good, they go for fan favorites with a large helping of fan service so you're not too bothered by how shallow/cliche the romance is. So I'd blame laziness and lack of inspiration in an industry where you have a large number of shows with romantic affairs.

I also think that a lot of the audience - primarily teenager and young adult males for anime - prefer the simpler boy gets the girl in the end type plots. Offer complex situations and they may feel less connected given their own experiences.

The replication of stereotypical shyness in anime romances is not coincidental IMO. The so-so socially-adjusted (ok geeky) otaku customer may not encourage writers to get too fancy with romances when a straight forward cheesecake romance with gobs of fan service does produce the sales they want.

Look at contrary examples like Emma. I've seen reactions of the type "Wow maid show but no fan service and slow ... blah boring!" where I think its romance and the issues of it in context is very interesting and sounds more normal/sincere than in many other animes.

Lego

12-19-2005, 07:15 PM

Ah, nice points Shenna, my fellow Emma fan. I do agree with almost all of what you said. Emma is a great example also. Emma herself goes toe to toe with William many times, and surprised me both in the manga and anime. Many people pass on Emma because as you said, no real fanservice.

Honey and Clover is also a good example of this. You had Yamada that while being soft at times, really gave it back to Morita and Mayama. Not to mention Hagu and everything involving her.

Hell, you could even mention Asa from Shuffle. She has a great attitude, and plays off the main lead, rather then just being their for the normal panty shots and confession.

B-Rad Lascelle

12-19-2005, 08:12 PM

One of my favorite romances in recent years that would fit the bill of the topic would be Cagalli and Athrun in Mobile Suit Gundam SEED.

Their first moments alone together involved them trying to kill one another on a deserted island. Cagalli's so fiercely stubborn & independent that it's fun to watch her gradually lower her barriers around the guy. There's always tension aplenty in the way they interact until the latter stages of the first season. (Haven't seen SEED Destiny so I can't comment much on how their romance progresses there.)

I'm also enjoying the interplay between Sana and Akito in Kodocha. Those kids are mature beyond their years... and yet they're still kids at heart. Which is really cute. (Granted, that is an older series.)

Another really fun romantic pairing it's been fun watching develop has been Hachimaki & Tanabe in Planetes.

Lego

12-19-2005, 08:31 PM

PlanetES has a nice romantic pairing in it. You mentioned two other examples that fit the bill also.

Guess it's time for me to make a reccomandtions thread /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Chloe

12-22-2005, 07:22 PM

Combative relationships....wasn't Priss and that Cop from Bubblegum Crisis(both series) rather tense right from the beginning? Though I'm not 100% sure if that is the type you mean, most of the shows you mention liking I've never seen.

Lego

12-22-2005, 10:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Kingmole said:
Combative relationships....wasn't Priss and that Cop from Bubblegum Crisis(both series) rather tense right from the beginning? Though I'm not 100% sure if that is the type you mean, most of the shows you mention liking I've never seen.

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Ah. I guess I just like characters where they put out a tough outer shell(ala Suzuka), but inside they're like a Belldandy.

EmperorBrandon

02-04-2006, 01:28 PM

Well, just watched Kimi ga Nozomu Eien this weekend and have some stuff on my mind, so I'll just bring it up in this topic since it seems a nice place to put it (at least this doesn't seem to be too old of a thread /images/graemlins/happy.gif)

[ QUOTE ]
Kiku Sarasugawa said:

As a fan of Haruka in Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, I fully support the ending.

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I would say I agree (both being a fan of Haruka and supporting the ending), though it's not necessarily that I didn't like Takayuki and didn't want her to be with him. He did have a habit of getting on my nerves throughout the series, but I didn't hate him near as much Mitsuki. Gah... she was just plain bitchy throughout a good portion of series, and I wasn't sympathetic with her at all in her downer moments except for a few choice places throughout the series. I think it was more how Haruka was strong and was able to handle everything after she came about at the end. She proved she was better than Mitsuki or Takayuki by not endlessly brooding over what she had lost in the accident.

Ah well... not sure exactly what I thought of the series as a whole, but seemed to be a very interesting one nonetheless.

Watching this has made me think of another possible character for my avatar theme, too, it seems. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Suwako Moriya

02-04-2006, 02:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
EmperorBrandon said:
Watching this has made me think of another possible character for my avatar theme, too, it seems. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

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Possible? I think you mean definite. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif After all it is your divine mission to use Ayu from Kimi ga Nozumu Eien.

EmperorBrandon

02-04-2006, 02:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Kiku Sarasugawa said:

Possible? I think you mean definite. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif After all it is your divine mission to use Ayu from Kimi ga Nozumu Eien.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if it's my divine mission, I need to be looking around for good avatars for when it's her turn as my avatar. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Kris Z

02-06-2006, 12:03 PM

Yes, I prefer the complex love/rivarly that is present with Yukino and Arima from kare kano or the trouble realistic interactions between people like with Yusaku and Kyoko from Maison Ikkoku.

That is because it doesn't demean either man or woman and shows how it is presented in a realistic relationship. The girl is a strong as the man, and the man is just as strong as the girl.

On the other hand we have stuff like Love Hina, which has no chance in hell of really happening. Most men would drop the girl if he had that much abuse, most girls wouldn't fall in love with a guy like that. Even in the beginning of the series you know that they were going to be together, so it was a pain just seeing crap happen until the end. What really peeves me is that a lot of these relationships put someone in a subordinate position. An example of that is Shinobu's obsession with Keitaro in Love Hina or the almost submissive personality of Belldandy from OMG.

CrazyAsano

02-06-2006, 04:09 PM

I'm not sure I'd say Belldandy is subordinate to Keiichi.

Sandz890

02-06-2006, 07:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In recent shows(some of them harem, some not) it seems that the series is built around the guy gaining up enough courage to go confess to someone, or one where the girl is content in just being with the main character(ala Belldandy).

[/ QUOTE ]

You could also have a situation like in the anime Vandread, where the main character (Hibiki Tokai) at first doesnt like the lead heroine at all (the crazy Dita). In fact he doesnt really like women much at all, well since men and women are at war and live on opposite planets. Id like to think Vandread counts as a harem anime, I mean after all, three men on a ship with an all female crew...

And if this has been brought up before then I'll say my apologies and dive off a cliff or something ^__^

golthin

02-06-2006, 08:52 PM

There are many shows that deal with Romance because it attracts people, it is part of the recipe that makes a good anime. I can't come up with a show that I have watched where there is not romance. Even Crayon shin-chan has some romance. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif SEX SELLS!

Sheena

02-07-2006, 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
There are many shows that deal with Romance because it attracts people, it is part of the recipe that makes a good anime. I can't come up with a show that I have watched where there is not romance. Even Crayon shin-chan has some romance. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif SEX SELLS!

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That's not entirely true. There are plenty of good anime with no romance. I don't know. Ghost in the Shell, AzuDaioh, Haibane Renmei, many studio ghibli movies, etc ... have little to no romance to speak of and are still very good animes (IMO).

It sure is a powerful emotional vehicle so it makes great hooks for many animes. The romantic cord is also pretty easy to pull in many people so it's not surprising to see so many anime cheese it ad nauseum.

golthin

02-07-2006, 09:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sheena said:
[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
There are many shows that deal with Romance because it attracts people, it is part of the recipe that makes a good anime. I can't come up with a show that I have watched where there is not romance. Even Crayon shin-chan has some romance. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif SEX SELLS!

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That's not entirely true. There are plenty of good anime with no romance. I don't know. Ghost in the Shell, AzuDaioh, Haibane Renmei, many studio ghibli movies, etc ... have little to no romance to speak of and are still very good animes (IMO).

It sure is a powerful emotional vehicle so it makes great hooks for many animes. The romantic cord is also pretty easy to pull in many people so it's not surprising to see so many anime cheese it ad nauseum.

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Good call, though in the TV series for ghost in the shell we know there is some repressed feelings between Motoko and batou. The other two are rare exeption to the rule. I didn't say that there weren't any, just I could remember one.

CrazyAsano

02-08-2006, 05:49 PM

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golthin said:
Good call, though in the TV series for ghost in the shell we know there is some repressed feelings between Motoko and batou.

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Heh, you make it sound two-sided. There's no question Batou has feelings for Kusanagi-sama, but no mortal is worthy of her so she deftly lets him down easy whenever he tries to ask her out.