Animé Draft 2006 - When do we sign up?

[AnnaSartin]

Hi, I'd just like to know when we sign up to participate (or compete to participate) in Anime Draft next year. I (like a bunch of other people here, I'm sure) are eager for it! ^_^

[Victor Lewandowski]

I don't even know if they will have one this year. If they do, I would be up for trying my luck at this draft. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[ibby]

I too wouldn't mind also having a crack at the draft for 2006 also.

[excel7769]

What is this Draft you all speak of? (Kinda new here, don't know a whole lot.)

[DiGiKerot]

[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:
I don't even know if they will have one this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm kind of expecting they won't - I seem to remember there being problems with last years...

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
excel7769 said:
What is this Draft you all speak of? (Kinda new here, don't know a whole lot.)

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a anime character draft.
10 rounds
number of contestants TBD (last one had 20)
Draft order TBD (last draft had polls for the first round to fill the field, then 1-20 each round thereafter)
Voting structure TBD (last draft had polls for each round, contestants received points based on tenths of a percent vote for each round). If another draft does happen, this voting structure definately will not be used.

[Galt]

Looking forward to it too. However, it may be a bit early for it. I always remembered the Anime Draft happening sometime after Plaid Wolf's Anime March Madness. May/June, perhaps?

Hopefully someone saved the thread where there was much discussion on how to improve the draft. I pretty much forget everything that was suggested.

Galt

[Jimmie M]

If there is one for 2006 then count me in as well. Hopefully there won't be any of the problems that arose in the last draft.

[cairber]

The last draft was around the last week of January 2005 (I remember because it was when Anna was born) /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif Unless I missed one since then....

[ape2020]

Maybe for fun we should only be allowed to draft characters from shows released on region 1 dvds in 2005. Make it really fresh instead of old news always dominating. Of course it didn't bother me with may All-LITTLE CHUBBY team. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

I have to get another theme time around as I hate repeating myself or following others. But then again I sure was fun coming up with all my nasty picks. /images/graemlins/devil.gif /images/graemlins/devil.gif /images/graemlins/devil.gif

-ape2020

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Galt said:
Looking forward to it too. However, it may be a bit early for it. I always remembered the Anime Draft happening sometime after Plaid Wolf's Anime March Madness. May/June, perhaps?

Hopefully someone saved the thread where there was much discussion on how to improve the draft. I pretty much forget everything that was suggested.

Galt

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember that Plaid Wolf came up with one system for assigning points in the voting rounds. I think it was something where:
<ul type="square">
The winner for each round received 20 points and each place thereafter went down from 19 to 1.
If the winner of a round was a single winner, that person would get 5 bonus points for that round.
If people were tied within a round, everyone tied would receive the same amount of points based on where the highest tied person placed. [/list]

For the rankings for the overall draft, he had a tie-breaker system set up, but I do not remember the details of how it worked. I think that it had to do with how the players had done over the course of the draft (round wins, finishes in the Top Five, finishes in the Top Ten, etc.).

[ScorpioEyez]

I really hope that a new draft is done againsoon. I got eliminated in the first round last year but this time I've got a first round pick that is going to assure me a place within the contest!

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
Maybe for fun we should only be allowed to draft characters from shows released on region 1 dvds in 2005. Make it really fresh instead of old news always dominating. Of course it didn't bother me with may All-LITTLE CHUBBY team. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

If you want it fresh, shouldn't it be shows that aired in Japan in 2005?

[rainking187]

I'd like to have another one, even though I didn't even make it into the last one /images/graemlins/relief1.gif. But weren't there alot of problems with voting last time? Although I do feel a little proud to see that people still care about something I created /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
Maybe for fun we should only be allowed to draft characters from shows released on region 1 dvds in 2005. Make it really fresh instead of old news always dominating. Of course it didn't bother me with may All-LITTLE CHUBBY team. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

If you want it fresh, shouldn't it be shows that aired in Japan in 2005?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm up for this one, it'll be easier to win with characters no one has heard of if everyone is picking characters no one has heard of. Although I'm not really up on this season /images/graemlins/depresse.gif. But I know who my first pick would be.

[Nosredna]

I believe AyaReiko said they wanted nothing to do with another draft, so someone else is going to have to step up and organize everything. Maybe rainking187 will want to take over once again? If no one steps up, then obviously, there can't be one. Oh and maybe the idea should be run past Chris or one of the mods. There were a lot of problems last time and a lot of people didn't like what was going on.

[rainking187]

[ QUOTE ]
Nosredna said:
I believe AyaReiko said they wanted nothing to do with another draft, so someone else is going to have to step up and organize everything. Maybe rainking187 will want to take over once again? If no one steps up, then obviously, there can't be one. Oh and maybe the idea should be run past Chris or one of the mods. There were a lot of problems last time and a lot of people didn't like what was going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with taking over. I don't suppose anyone saved any of the blurbs describing what the anime draft was, did they? /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif Perhaps Chris or the mods will see this thread and stop by it to let their feelings known. I still don't understand why there was such a problem with the voting, come on people it's just a game! It's not like we're playing for cash prizes.

[Narob]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nosredna said:
I believe AyaReiko said they wanted nothing to do with another draft, so someone else is going to have to step up and organize everything. Maybe rainking187 will want to take over once again? If no one steps up, then obviously, there can't be one. Oh and maybe the idea should be run past Chris or one of the mods. There were a lot of problems last time and a lot of people didn't like what was going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with taking over. I don't suppose anyone saved any of the blurbs describing what the anime draft was, did they? /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif Perhaps Chris or the mods will see this thread and stop by it to let their feelings known. I still don't understand why there was such a problem with the voting, come on people it's just a game! It's not like we're playing for cash prizes.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have all the AD2004 information stored away in my computer. I began to do the same with the 2005 one, but with what idioticy unfolded near the end, I do not acknowledge 2005. I'll not be in 2006, if there is one, but I will watch from the sidelines.

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
I have no problem with taking over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hooray for Rainking! *^_^* *^_^* *^_^*

[PsychoRabbitt]

[ QUOTE ]
Narob said:
[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nosredna said:
I believe AyaReiko said they wanted nothing to do with another draft, so someone else is going to have to step up and organize everything. Maybe rainking187 will want to take over once again? If no one steps up, then obviously, there can't be one. Oh and maybe the idea should be run past Chris or one of the mods. There were a lot of problems last time and a lot of people didn't like what was going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with taking over. I don't suppose anyone saved any of the blurbs describing what the anime draft was, did they? /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif Perhaps Chris or the mods will see this thread and stop by it to let their feelings known. I still don't understand why there was such a problem with the voting, come on people it's just a game! It's not like we're playing for cash prizes.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have all the AD2004 information stored away in my computer. I began to do the same with the 2005 one, but with what idioticy unfolded near the end, I do not acknowledge 2005. I'll not be in 2006, if there is one, but I will watch from the sidelines.

[/ QUOTE ]

And after the way the controversy tainted my victory, I want nothing to do with it this year.

[TnAdct1]

Note to self: if the Anime Draft returns for 2006, definitely sign up for it, as I would to give this fun forum-based game a try.

[rainking187]

[ QUOTE ]
PsychoRabbitt said:And after the way the controversy tainted my victory, I want nothing to do with it this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

We definitely need to have a plan to fix this. The only thing I can think is have a sign up date limit. Only people that have registered for these forums prior to 12/21/05 will be allowed to vote, or something like that. It's the only thing I can think of to counteract people creating other accounts after the voting has started. They would probably still post their votes but they wouldn't be counted. Instead of having a poll, have each person post their choice in a thread. There are a few problems with this, the thread could be long, and there's no longer anonymity with regards to voting. It's not a great idea, but it's the best I can come up with, if anyone has any other ideas, I'm all ears. Most of the accounts that were created for voting purposes last year were deleted, right?

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
Maybe for fun we should only be allowed to draft characters from shows released on region 1 dvds in 2005. Make it really fresh instead of old news always dominating. Of course it didn't bother me with may All-LITTLE CHUBBY team. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

If you want it fresh, shouldn't it be shows that aired in Japan in 2005?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't mind but that really limits the amount of people (like myself) both playing and voting. This is region mostly.

-ape2020

[Dagger]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
Maybe for fun we should only be allowed to draft characters from shows released on region 1 dvds in 2005. Make it really fresh instead of old news always dominating. Of course it didn't bother me with may All-LITTLE CHUBBY team. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

If you want it fresh, shouldn't it be shows that aired in Japan in 2005?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't mind but that really limits the amount of people (like myself) both playing and voting. This is region mostly.

-ape2020

[/ QUOTE ]
IMO either option (2005 R1 releases or 2005 airings) is preferable to leaving it completely open.

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Dagger said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
Maybe for fun we should only be allowed to draft characters from shows released on region 1 dvds in 2005. Make it really fresh instead of old news always dominating. Of course it didn't bother me with may All-LITTLE CHUBBY team. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

If you want it fresh, shouldn't it be shows that aired in Japan in 2005?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't mind but that really limits the amount of people (like myself) both playing and voting. This is region mostly.

-ape2020

[/ QUOTE ]
IMO either option (2005 R1 releases or 2005 airings) is preferable to leaving it completely open.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that 2005 R1 releases or 2005 airings is too restrictive.

I would propose that the player cannot choose multiple characters from the same series family. Each player would only be allowed to draft one character from a series family. Example: If I were to draft Shou Tucker from Fullmetal Alchemist, I could not draft any other characters from that series, but any other player who has not already chosen a character from that series could then go ahead and draft another character from that series (say Wrath). Then after their choice, the other player would be bound by the same restriction as me.

[ayareiko]

[ QUOTE ]
Narob said:
[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nosredna said:
I believe AyaReiko said they wanted nothing to do with another draft, so someone else is going to have to step up and organize everything. Maybe rainking187 will want to take over once again? If no one steps up, then obviously, there can't be one. Oh and maybe the idea should be run past Chris or one of the mods. There were a lot of problems last time and a lot of people didn't like what was going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with taking over. I don't suppose anyone saved any of the blurbs describing what the anime draft was, did they? /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif Perhaps Chris or the mods will see this thread and stop by it to let their feelings known. I still don't understand why there was such a problem with the voting, come on people it's just a game! It's not like we're playing for cash prizes.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have all the AD2004 information stored away in my computer. I began to do the same with the 2005 one, but with what idioticy unfolded near the end, I do not acknowledge 2005. I'll not be in 2006, if there is one, but I will watch from the sidelines.

[/ QUOTE ]
My thoughts exactly. After what happened in '05, there's no way I want anything to do with the Anime Draft again outside from obverving and speculating. I'm kicking around an idea for a replacement though. The front runners are Anime Battle Royal, a standard heal/hurt game, and Anime Royal Rumble, the same heal/hurt game with a twist.

But relying on the forum's poll system is foolish, as last year proved. Don't waste your time even thinking about using that thing and expect to get anything fair.

[Nosredna]

[ QUOTE ]
Narob said:
I have all the AD2004 information stored away in my computer. I began to do the same with the 2005 one, but with what idioticy unfolded near the end, I do not acknowledge 2005. I'll not be in 2006, if there is one, but I will watch from the sidelines.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with you, the way things went down, the Anime Draft in 2005 never happened, And there's no way I want anything to do with it in 06. No matter what happens, people are going to be suspicious of the voting. Like AyaReiko said "relying on the forum's poll system is foolish." So unless someone can think of a better way of voting, I'm not sure how successful it will be.

[rainking187]

[ QUOTE ]
Nosredna said:So unless someone can think of a better way of voting, I'm not sure how successful it will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I posted an idea above, I'm not sure if it's "better" per se, but it's different.

[Helschadenfreude]

*sniffs* so much excitement for the Anime Draft.. no one wants to play in the manga forum....

[PsychoRabbitt]

[ QUOTE ]
Nosredna said:
[ QUOTE ]
Narob said:
I have all the AD2004 information stored away in my computer. I began to do the same with the 2005 one, but with what idioticy unfolded near the end, I do not acknowledge 2005. I'll not be in 2006, if there is one, but I will watch from the sidelines.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with you, the way things went down, the Anime Draft in 2005 never happened

[/ QUOTE ]

I finally win something and all knowledge of it is disavowed like the orders in Mission: Impossible... /images/graemlins/relief1.gif

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:If you want it fresh, shouldn't it be shows that aired in Japan in 2005?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I have a better idea. We are only going to vote for characters from anime that won't air until after the draft is over. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif In all seriousness I'm not sure if a draft is such a good thing. I mean besides all the alleged cheating, accusations and etc. If you really think about it, in reality it ultimately boils down to how well known the character is. It would not surprise me if 60% of the time a person votes for X not because he likes X better than the other choices, but because the voter has no idea who the other characters are.

[rainking187]

[ QUOTE ]
Mimi Masuko said:I mean besides all the alleged cheating, accusations and etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I'm fairly certain the cast of Sailor Moon has been taking steroids.

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:Yes, I'm fairly certain the cast of Sailor Moon has been taking steroids.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only that Usagi has gone around undercover as Serena in order to gain even more votes!

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
PsychoRabbitt said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nosredna said:
[ QUOTE ]
Narob said:
I have all the AD2004 information stored away in my computer. I began to do the same with the 2005 one, but with what idioticy unfolded near the end, I do not acknowledge 2005. I'll not be in 2006, if there is one, but I will watch from the sidelines.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with you, the way things went down, the Anime Draft in 2005 never happened

[/ QUOTE ]

I finally win something and all knowledge of it is disavowed like the orders in Mission: Impossible... /images/graemlins/relief1.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I still acknowledge the 2006 Draft, and you as it's winner. People can't just wipe something out of existance because they don't like the outcome. So I still say props to you on your victory! There was ONE Animé Draft last year, you were it's winner, and therefore it does count! *waves a banner for the Wabbit*

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
[ QUOTE ]
PsychoRabbitt said:And after the way the controversy tainted my victory, I want nothing to do with it this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

We definitely need to have a plan to fix this. The only thing I can think is have a sign up date limit. Only people that have registered for these forums prior to 12/21/05 will be allowed to vote, or something like that. It's the only thing I can think of to counteract people creating other accounts after the voting has started. They would probably still post their votes but they wouldn't be counted. Instead of having a poll, have each person post their choice in a thread. There are a few problems with this, the thread could be long, and there's no longer anonymity with regards to voting. It's not a great idea, but it's the best I can come up with, if anyone has any other ideas, I'm all ears. Most of the accounts that were created for voting purposes last year were deleted, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we should still use the polls to keep some anonymity to the voting process. I think the scoring method for each round that was used in the 2005 draft is what led to its unfortunate ending. Assigning points for every tenth of a percentage point of the vote for a round allows one player to drag down the rest of the field if the voting is extremely high for one player. A scoring system that just assigns points based on where a player places in the round would minimize the damage caused by the account creation problem by not letting one player dominate a round at the rest of the fields' expense.

[Suwako Moriya]

That's a pretty good idea. Although it may not change much in the long run. Since the alleged vote stuffers would still be trying to get first place. Then again some people would cry cheat even if no one was cheating. Maybe the truth is the thing is too much of a headache.

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Mimi Masuko said:
That's a pretty good idea. Although it may not change much in the long run. Since the alleged vote stuffers would still be trying to get first place. Then again some people would cry cheat even if no one was cheating. Maybe the truth is the thing is too much of a headache.

[/ QUOTE ]

Couple this with my drafting restriction that each player can only draft one character per series family, I think it would work out. Sure we could have 20 different characters from the same series be drafted, but each player would only have one of these characters in their party. Most series don't even have 20 characters worth drafting. Fullmetal Alchemist is the only one I can think of that would have at least 20 good choices for drafting.

[dunno001]

I will give a bit of information here:

This thread has the attention of us mods, and we are debating if we wish to allow one or not. I can't say for certain yet, because it's still being discussed. If we do decide to go ahead, we will most likely need to hash out rules. We'll prolly leave some choices up to everyone here, but I do know a way to control the votes are something that we want considerably. I'm more looking toward a slightly modified system of scoring, so that dumping a lot of votes won't be as worthwhile. (My proposal is that the 20 for 1st, down to 1 for 20th, or however many players we allow, will stay, but with a solo first getting 3 bonus points (instead of 5), 2nd getting 2 bonus, and 3rd getting 1 bonus. Sort of like gold/silver/bronze medals.) It reduces the bonus for a runaway first. If anyone has any thoughts on this, feel free to reply, or to send me a PM. It appears to be fair, but again, we all are in this. (If people don't mind a very crude status page, I can even run this, as one thing that we are talking about is that it needs to be clear a mod is involved in this, and perceived rigging may and will end the draft instantly.)

Of course, how to accept votes is another matter altogether. Many people that have already posted here that the poll system is way too easy to control. And there is no way to restrict that. However, I remember that others voiced opposition toward posting in the thread or PMing a 3rd party/mule account. This will definitely need to be hashed out.

Mind you, none of this is a guarantee that it will go on. I've expressed that I'd like to give it a try again, but I'm not the only person making this decision. We'll keep you informed on how things go with this.

As for some of the ideas posted here, I don't know if I like the thought of some of them. Limiting it to characters from 2K5 seems rather restrictive, then one would have to argue for series that have been running forever (Naruto), re-releases, etc, so I'd say not to do that. Series character limits I agree with; no more than 1 character from a series per player, but I'd say no more than 2 or 3 from a series across the GAME. This would force a variety of series to show up. (For that matter, cross-series are grouped together, ie Saiyuki and Saiyuki Reload are the same, as are Tokyo Babylon and X, and all of Slayers. Different characters (Outlaw Star and Angel Links) may qualify for seperate series despite the same universe.)

If anyone has any ideas, comments, suggestions, etc, please, send them on. Again, while I can't guarantee it will happen, if a lot of the details are hashed out, INCLUDING a way to control the rigging, then it will have a better chance of moving forward.

[rainking187]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:I'd say no more than 2 or 3 from a series across the GAME.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is fair, especially if someone is relatively new to anime, what if all the anime they've seen get picked?

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:I'd say no more than 2 or 3 from a series across the GAME.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is fair, especially if someone is relatively new to anime, what if all the anime they've seen get picked?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's why this is still in planning phase. Admittingly, if you've not seen that much, you would be at a disadvantage off the bat. Although that can still be axed, I'm just concerned about a few series dominating the draft in general. Sure, it's been said that most series don't have 10 characters worth drafting, in a hypothetical situation, there would only be the number of players for number of series represented, and that doesn't seem like a good cross-section. But we'll mull that over.

Another idea that came to my mind would be certain theme rounds in the middle. Obviously, rounds 1 and 10 would be free-draft, as most likely would 2 and 9. But, in theory, round 3 could be "screwed-up characters", 4 would be "beautiful bishi (both sexes)", etc. They'd need to be left fairly open so that someone doesn't run out of choices, or actually have to think about it. (And I don't expect every one of 3-8 to be themed... just a couple.)

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
As for some of the ideas posted here, I don't know if I like the thought of some of them. Limiting it to characters from 2K5 seems rather restrictive, then one would have to argue for series that have been running forever (Naruto), re-releases, etc, so I'd say not to do that. Series character limits I agree with; no more than 1 character from a series per player, but I'd say no more than 2 or 3 from a series across the GAME. This would force a variety of series to show up. (For that matter, cross-series are grouped together, ie Saiyuki and Saiyuki Reload are the same, as are Tokyo Babylon and X, and all of Slayers. Different characters (Outlaw Star and Angel Links) may qualify for seperate series despite the same universe.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Which series has had the most characters drafted in a single draft? I remember Azumanga Daioh had a lot of characters drafted in the flawed draft (I think there were 8 or 9 from Azumanga Daioh). I would go for no more than 1 character from a series per player with a maximum of 5 characters from that series across the entire game.

[rainking187]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:Another idea that came to my mind would be certain theme rounds in the middle. Obviously, rounds 1 and 10 would be free-draft, as most likely would 2 and 9. But, in theory, round 3 could be "screwed-up characters", 4 would be "beautiful bishi (both sexes)", etc. They'd need to be left fairly open so that someone doesn't run out of choices, or actually have to think about it. (And I don't expect every one of 3-8 to be themed... just a couple.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought of this during the first draft I believe, and the response was underwhelming.

[B-Rad Lascelle]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
If anyone has any ideas, comments, suggestions, etc, please, send them on. Again, while I can't guarantee it will happen, if a lot of the details are hashed out, INCLUDING a way to control the rigging, then it will have a better chance of moving forward.

[/ QUOTE ]
There's no surefire way to control the rigging (sadly), but it's certainly an easy task to monitor account creation during the vote window to gauge any anomalies or discrepancies.

There were pronounced bursts of dummy account creation that were traceable in both documented instances of forum vote rigging in 2005... the Anime Draft in the winter and the Monthly Dub Awards in the summer. Something along the lines of a 400-500% jump in newly registered accounts compared with the days and weeks prior along with blatantly obvious names referencing the votes in question.

While no solution is foolproof, it shouldn't be too hard to casually monitor account creation during voting windows in addition to having a contingency plan should obvious vote tampering occur. Such as throwing out a tampered round's results and tacking on a Round 11 at the end of the draft... essentially a lightning round for those players still in contention for the ultimate drafter crown.

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:Another idea that came to my mind would be certain theme rounds in the middle.

[/ QUOTE ]

In a very real sense it could create an even playing field. Since the character would compete with people in the same category. Thus for example say the character in question is a magical girl. Those who automatically hate magical girls will probably not vote for anyone in the poll anyway if they are all magical girls. While those who automatically love magical girls will have to choose more carefully because she won't be the only one in the list. Still the hard part would be deciding how many themes to do total and of course which themes to do in the first place, but ah well.

Honestly if you really think about it. No matter what option you go with in terms of the various aspects of the whole draft, a good portion of the board is going to gripe about it. I mean the voting process is a good example. Polls? Complaints about stuffed ballots. Post Votes? Whine about havign to post in a thread. PM Votes? The person who collects the votes will be accused of ignoring PMs? So in reality it should be based on effectiveness only. Ie it may be best to ignore the griping, but ah well.

[AnnaSartin]

What I wish we had is a poll system that, after the voting is over, showed the names of all the voters and who they voted for. I've seen it in other message boards. This way voters could be researched (to prove there was no ballet stuffing) and to weed out any AODers that signed up after the draft begins.

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
What I wish we had is a poll system that, after the voting is over, showed the names of all the voters and who they voted for. I've seen it in other message boards. This way voters could be researched (to prove there was no ballet stuffing) and to weed out any AODers that signed up after the draft begins.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wasn't there supposed to be new forum software implemented here in the near future that is being tested right now? Does this software include a poll system which shows the voters' names and their picks when the voting period ends?

[Suwako Moriya]

Yes there are plans to move to a new forum system soon. From what I remember, I don't think the forum software had such a polling system at all. Well it did have a polling system, but not with the feature you guys are asking about.

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Another idea that came to my mind would be certain theme rounds in the middle. Obviously, rounds 1 and 10 would be free-draft, as most likely would 2 and 9. But, in theory, round 3 could be "screwed-up characters", 4 would be "beautiful bishi (both sexes)", etc. They'd need to be left fairly open so that someone doesn't run out of choices, or actually have to think about it. (And I don't expect every one of 3-8 to be themed... just a couple.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Mascot, male, female, and of course hentai. /images/graemlins/devil.gif /images/graemlins/devil.gif /images/graemlins/devil.gif

-ape2020

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
What I wish we had is a poll system that, after the voting is over, showed the names of all the voters and who they voted for. I've seen it in other message boards. This way voters could be researched (to prove there was no ballet stuffing) and to weed out any AODers that signed up after the draft begins.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not too friendly to newbie is it? I mean this is a fairly popular site and gets new members all the time. So we exclude a newbie from our raindeer games because we fear cheating in our "friendly" little game? Now if we get a spike in enrollment then it doesn't seem too hard to see if its coming to from one source as last year proved. I say just score from position in the draft to min ballot stuffing. It basically worked last year for rabbit.

-ape2020

[Isuzu Inugami]

[ QUOTE ]
Mimi Masuko said:
Yes there are plans to move to a new forum system soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Soon... coming soon... no, really, it's almost here... before you know it... someday.... /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

I think it's pretty sad that people would take the whole thing so seriously as to cheat, but even more sad to cancel the whole thing just because of that. I dunno... I wonder if people won't feel a little ashamed about last year and behave better this time... or am I dreadfully naive? Why not hold it on a probationary basis, reminding everyone that it relies on the honor system (assuming there's no good way to police votes)?

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Mimi Masuko said:
Still the hard part would be deciding how many themes to do total and of course which themes to do in the first place, but ah well.

Honestly if you really think about it. No matter what option you go with in terms of the various aspects of the whole draft, a good portion of the board is going to gripe about it. I mean the voting process is a good example. Polls? Complaints about stuffed ballots. Post Votes? Whine about havign to post in a thread. PM Votes? The person who collects the votes will be accused of ignoring PMs? So in reality it should be based on effectiveness only. Ie it may be best to ignore the griping, but ah well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'd be thinking mo more than 5 themed rounds, to keep a fair amount of flexibility, however, if it goes over really well this time (for some reason), then 6-7 might actually be doable. I also really like some of the ideas that Ape2020 had. (Truthfully, though, I would have to stop and think for 20 mascots. I like the rest, but changing hentai into adult. Otherwise you get people asking where the yaoi round is! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif ) But again, that can be discussed here; if anyone else has ideas, fling them out!

One of the other things that was going through my head earlier today could be a blend of the voting methods. Leave the poll in (watching for rigging, of course), AND have someone on the sidelines collect PMs. Both can be scored seperately. I also can answer your concern for the PM concern- turn on read receipt. As far as that goes, I'd be willing to collect and tally the PMs.

So what about newly-registered members/voters? Sure, we don't have a system like AN to see who votes in a poll. However, that's also why I want a blended vote system. I would support a rule like people registering after xx/yy/06 will be expected to vote in a majority of the polls should you choose to send PMs. Failure to do so will result in the discarding of your votes due to previous vote fixing. This also means that we can see the poll results weekly, but there's the added suspense of another scoring system. I know that way will generate considerably fewer votes than a poll, which is also why I'm deciding on a scoring sytem for PM votes. I'm expecting it to be low enough for it to be 1 point per PM, but if it is great, I'll prolly use the same system as I mentioned for the poll tallying.

Just remember, this is all tentative, and subject to change/cancellation at any time. It's why we're talk this all through now...

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Well, I'd be thinking mo more than 5 themed rounds, to keep a fair amount of flexibility, however, if it goes over really well this time (for some reason), then 6-7 might actually be doable. I also really like some of the ideas that Ape2020 had. (Truthfully, though, I would have to stop and think for 20 mascots. I like the rest, but changing hentai into adult. Otherwise you get people asking where the yaoi round is! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif ) But again, that can be discussed here; if anyone else has ideas, fling them out!


[/ QUOTE ]

I think an Adult/Hentai/Yaoi themed round is doable and could be done at almost any round. Twenty mascots should not be that hard to come up with (harem series will usually have one). The mascot themed round would have to be done early on in the draft if a limit on the number of characters from a single series is in place or we would have to allow a partial exemption to the limit for that round only.

If the mascot is from a series family that has reached the maximum number of characters allowed for that series family, a player may draft a mascot from that series family if and only if the player has not already drafted another character from that series family.
Also, only one mascot per series family will be allowed.

[Nuriko]

I disagree with a mandatory "theme" round. Why? because the ones who choose first, has the advantage. *imagines being the last one to choose a mascot* If themes are mandatory, count me out automatically. I don't think I know more than 10 characters in any theme/genre I would choose to compete.

If it's an option only, more power to those who wants a team focused on a specific genre/theme.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
I disagree with a mandatory "theme" round. Why? because the ones who choose first, has the advantage. *imagines being the last one to choose a mascot* If themes are mandatory, count me out automatically. I don't think I know more than 10 characters in any theme/genre I would choose to compete.

If it's an option only, more power to those who wants a team focused on a specific genre/theme.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... good point. Granted, I was thinking of a snaking method for draft orders. (I think one was used last year?) But yes, either way, it would be a rather... disadvantageous place to be last. With snaking, you'd get a last with a first. Either that, or make it a free-for-all at the thread creation. First to post gets first pick. But we can look at several options there also... or it may be done away with. Truthfully, I like the thought of it, but... if it doesn't go over well with a majority, then I would expect it to be axed.

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
I disagree with a mandatory "theme" round. Why? because the ones who choose first, has the advantage. *imagines being the last one to choose a mascot* If themes are mandatory, count me out automatically. I don't think I know more than 10 characters in any theme/genre I would choose to compete.

If it's an option only, more power to those who wants a team focused on a specific genre/theme.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... good point. Granted, I was thinking of a snaking method for draft orders. (I think one was used last year?) But yes, either way, it would be a rather... disadvantageous place to be last. With snaking, you'd get a last with a first. Either that, or make it a free-for-all at the thread creation. First to post gets first pick. But we can look at several options there also... or it may be done away with. Truthfully, I like the thought of it, but... if it doesn't go over well with a majority, then I would expect it to be axed.

[/ QUOTE ]

A snaking method was used in the most recent VA draft where each round the order was reversed. The flawed draft went 1 to 20 each round without any change in the order unless someone missed their window and had to fill that missed spot at the end of the draft before voting began.

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
I disagree with a mandatory "theme" round. Why? because the ones who choose first, has the advantage. *imagines being the last one to choose a mascot* If themes are mandatory, count me out automatically. I don't think I know more than 10 characters in any theme/genre I would choose to compete.

If it's an option only, more power to those who wants a team focused on a specific genre/theme.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a mascot themed round does make it into the draft, make it so that mascots could only be drafted in the mascot themed round. There are enough mascots to go around the field, but if some get drafted early on in the draft before the themed round came up, then it may become slim pickings by the end of the mascot themed round.

[Nuriko]

[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
I disagree with a mandatory "theme" round. Why? because the ones who choose first, has the advantage. *imagines being the last one to choose a mascot* If themes are mandatory, count me out automatically. I don't think I know more than 10 characters in any theme/genre I would choose to compete.

If it's an option only, more power to those who wants a team focused on a specific genre/theme.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a mascot themed round does make it into the draft, make it so that mascots could only be drafted in the mascot themed round. There are enough mascots to go around the field, but if some get drafted early on in the draft before the themed round came up, then it may become slim pickings by the end of the mascot themed round.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not so much as limited characters per theme, but more of the hot picks in their respective categories. For example, when it comes to magical girls, there are only a handful that will be dominant while there are certainly over 20 candidates to choose from. If I were to guess, I would say the top 10 who chooses first will win each "themed" round.

Again, i'm not opposed to those who wants to cater their team to a specific theme but to make it mandatory, I think it is totally unfair. Moreso, some fans don't watch a specific genre, thus causes more difficulty. I still believe, we should have the freedom to choose whoever we like instead of being bound by restrictions.

[ape2020]

While I love themes (I will have one for my team if there is a draft), I can understand the fears and dislikes of them. But maybe for this year only we do just a boy/girl alternating rounds. I did this with my hentai group last year and found it kinda of fun. This way we might be able to avoid some controversy I see coming about what character fits a theme. I mean at least I explained all my picks including the last one. But some players are less interactive then others. With that and how stickler some are about how things are done I could see some problems.

Its a KISS method for baby step changes.

-ape2020

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
Shimauma said:
I think it's pretty sad that people would take the whole thing so seriously as to cheat, but even more sad to cancel the whole thing just because of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sad thing is, the real problem wasn't cheating (I seriously doubt there was any) it was the mass hysteria that arose when people started SUSPECTING that people were cheating. It rather stupid, actually, and it ruined what was actually a very fun game up until that point. There were supposedly some dummy accounts opened toward the end, but there was no evidence that they were connected with the game. I wish we could just get the new polling system and end the problem once and for all...

[Nuriko]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
While I love themes (I will have one for my team if there is a draft), I can understand the fears and dislikes of them. But maybe for this year only we do just a boy/girl alternating rounds.

-ape2020

[/ QUOTE ]

I like that idea alot instead of teams focusing on female/male characters only. It also changes one's strategy in the order they choose their characters and provide a challenge yet not being totally unfair to all who participates. Also, it might generate more votes from female members here, making it a more well-rounded draft overall.

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
While I love themes (I will have one for my team if there is a draft), I can understand the fears and dislikes of them. But maybe for this year only we do just a boy/girl alternating rounds.

-ape2020

[/ QUOTE ]

I like that idea alot instead of teams focusing on female/male characters only. It also changes one's strategy in the order they choose their characters and provide a challenge yet not being totally unfair to all who participates. Also, it might generate more votes from female members here, making it a more well-rounded draft overall.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about this:

-Snaking draft order to even things out.

-Themed rounds girl/boy/boy/girl/girl/boy/boy/girl/girl/boy so everyone gets about the same chance to be top of the draft order for each theme.

-If gender is in doubt let the player decide and justify the selection for say robots, mascots, and dickgirls.

-Only one character per anime branch per player and only 5 or 7 characters from per se anime branch. I know this might hurt those not heavy into anime but hey they are at a disadvangtage anyhoo.

-Scoring for place finished of character in the round with small bonus if clearcut. Less impact of polling fraud and keeps race excitingly close.

-No keeping characters from previous drafts or any fast polls if need. More then half the fun was drafting and might as well keep it simple in starting new for every stage of the contest.

-ape2020

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
How about this:

-Snaking draft order to even things out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this order, it was used in the VA draft that was just held. Aside from a couple close calls, the rounds kept moving and no one missed their window for making their pick. We even had some rounds completed in less than one day.

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
-Themed rounds girl/boy/boy/girl/girl/boy/boy/girl/girl/boy so everyone gets about the same chance to be top of the draft order for each theme.

-Only one character per anime branch per player and only 5 or 7 characters from per se anime branch. I know this might hurt those not heavy into anime but hey they are at a disadvangtage anyhoo.

-No keeping characters from previous drafts or any fast polls if need. More then half the fun was drafting and might as well keep it simple in starting new for every stage of the contest.

-ape2020

[/ QUOTE ]

Since the first round is a qualifying round for the draft to fill the field, that round should be open for any character choice (boy or girl) as long as it falls under the draft character limit. If the limit for a series has been reached in the qualifying round, then no one will be allowed to draft a character from that series family for the rest of the draft, unless the choice is made by a player that does not qualify for the remainder of the draft.

As for filling the field, I would still use the fast polls but I would have the fast polls all running at the same time with everyone that signs up for the draft. The contestants would be randomly divided into four almost even pools (some pools will have one more player than another if there are a total number of players that is not divisible by four). The top five players from each pool would enter the draft for the other nine rounds with randomly assigned starting positions for the second round and then the order would be snaked for each round thereafter.

If there are ties in the qualifying round at the cutoff points for each pool, there will be a tie-breaking round with everyone from the four pools together with however many postions are available at stake. However, if the cutoff ties only give the field one or two more players from across the four qualifying pools, I would just move them on into the draft and we will just have a couple of more players to deal with.

[ayareiko]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shimauma said:
I think it's pretty sad that people would take the whole thing so seriously as to cheat, but even more sad to cancel the whole thing just because of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sad thing is, the real problem wasn't cheating (I seriously doubt there was any) it was the mass hysteria that arose when people started SUSPECTING that people were cheating. It rather stupid, actually, and it ruined what was actually a very fun game up until that point. There were supposedly some dummy accounts opened toward the end, but there was no evidence that they were connected with the game. I wish we could just get the new polling system and end the problem once and for all...

[/ QUOTE ]

From my PM's:
[ QUOTE ]
The Dirt on the Draft
.
From: B-Rad Lascelle
.
I've got some good news for you, AR. Your draft has NOT been hijacked by crazed Gravitation or yaoi fans.
.
The bad news is that the reason Anna Sartin's Gravitation characters have tallied so many votes has nothing to do with hardcore campaigning and everything to do with multiple fake user accounts being created for the sole purpose of logging votes.
.
While the votes themselves can't be tracked, what can be tracked are three distinct clusters of fraudulent user accounts that materialized out of the blue on April 4th and April 6th. Keeping in mind, of course, that on the average day AOD only sees anywhere from 8-10 new sign ups at most.
.
.
8060 = Nanuraa (4/4/05) 1:42am
8061 = insideheart (4/4/05) 1:46am
8062 = stranderna (4/4/05) 1:49am
8063 = ayumiiee (4/4/05) 1:51am - posted in a Gravitation thread @ 5:43pm on 4/5
8064 = Masaki (4/4/05) 1:53am
8065 = Crazyanimefan (4/4/05) 1:55am
8066 = Akaane (4/4/05) 1:57am
8067 = sakamuu (4/4/05) 1:59am
8068 = akane (4/4/05) 2:01am
8069 = Liidia (4/4/05) 2:05am
8070 = Keennn (4/4/05) 2:07am
8071 = Yeahada (4/4/05) 2:09am
8072 = Yealikieni (4/4/05) 2:11am
8073 = speedstar53 (4/4/05) 2:11am
8074 = Manikia (4/4/05) 2:12am
8075 = Yeahino (4/4/05) 2:23am
8076 = Kakakahi (4/4/05) 2:25am
8077 = Majoruhk (4/4/05) 2:26am
8080 = HelenNgue (4/4/05) 5:33pm
8081 = CongChen (4/4/05) 5:36pm
8082 = JasonUng (4/4/05) 5:38pm - posted in General Anime thread @ 5:40pm
8083 = Nanakis (4/4/05) 5:40pm
8084 = CheminstryBoy (4/4/05) 5:43pm
8085 = UtdaHikaru (4/4/05) 5:45pm
8086 = TommyTroung (4/4/05) 5:47pm
8087 = JuukiYuuki (4/4/05) 5:49pm
8088 = Ishisda (4/4/05) 5:51pm
8089 = ForeverKisses (4/4/05) 5:54pm - posted in a Gravitation thread @ 7:37pm
8091 = Shinigami2x4 (4/4/05) 7:55pm
8093 = lemon (4/4/05) 10:36pm
8094 = SoHotBoy (4/4/05) 10:51pm
8112 = espeon-neko (4/6/05) 9:07pm
8113 = umbreon-neko (4/6/05) 9:08pm
8114 = torchic-neko (4/6/05) 9:10pm
8115 = taillow-neko (4/6/05) 9:10pm
8116 = swablu-neko (4/6/05) 9:12pm
8117 = skitty-neko (4/6/05) 9:12pm
8118 = mudkip-neko (4/6/05) 10:25pm
8119 = treeko-neko (4/6/05) 10:26pm
8120 = evee-neko (4/6/05) 10:26pm
8121 = geodude-neko (4/6/05) 10:27pm
8122 = suicune-neko (4/6/05) 10:27pm
8123 = entei-neko (4/6/05) 10:28pm
It should be noted that the 3rd group of accounts have already been tracked against one identical IP address by Chris Beveridge and the accounts themselves have been banned. The other two sets are equally conspicuous and have isolated posts to Gravitation threads as suspicious trademarks.
.
It should be noted that this does not directly implicate Anna Sartin or Ran (her outspoken draft defender). Chris is still investigating the first two sets for matching IPs and will crosscheck his findings accordingly. It's quite possible that Anna did actively campaign and that some overeager Gravitation fan thought they'd see if they could get away with logging multiple votes on her behalf. It's also possible that she was a knowing accomplice and/or had a friend do the dirty work for her. The fact that she outright expected a larger landslide than 38 votes leads me to believe she knew about that 3rd batch of IDs activated on the 6th... but once again, it's impossible to prove.
.
There should, however, be enough factual info here to cast direct doubt on the legitimacy of the votes she received. While I did expect to uncover a number of new accounts with no posts to account for the flurry of support she's received, I did NOT expect to find a host of accounts activated in rapid succession or cross-checked against a single user. That's the real problem.
.
Below I've attached a log of my discussion with Chris on the matter. Feel free to independently crosscheck the forum user records I've noted above. You can access the first one on the list here and independently search from there. Feel free to compare those details with earlier days so you can get a direct perspective on what's considered a 'normal' day of activations at AOD... and what's not.
.
For ease of use, I've broken down the # of new accounts per day to highlight the discrepancy.
.
April 1st - 16 Accounts (8019-8034)
April 2nd - 8 Accounts (8037-8044)
April 3rd - 12 Accounts (8045-8056)
April 4th - 37 Accounts (8058-8094) * End of Round 1 *
April 5th - 10 Accounts (8095-8104)
April 6th - 19 Accounts (8105-8123) * Confirmed Bogus Accounts *
April 7th - 7 Accounts (8125-8131)
April 8th - 11 Accounts (8132-8142)
April 9th - 4 Accounts (8144-8147)
April 10th - 11 Accounts &amp; Counting (8148-8158)
* More Bogus Pokemon Accounts Set Up Shortly After the 1st Batch Were Banned *
.
That's it for all of the detailed gruntwork. Apologies to drop all of this on your shoulders, but I figured you'd want to know. As the draft has been compromised, you may choose to let things run their course, disqualify Anna now and recalculate percentages or disqualify Anna after the draft has been completed.
.
All of the questions people are mulling over in the draft threads have clear answers. And it's unfortunately a case of duplicate accounts beating the system and compromising blind polling. While I'm fairly ambivalent as to how the draft plays out, I am concerned about the fact that this has occured as I'd rather not see the blind vote presently employed by the monthly VA awards compromised in such a fashion. Helping Chris to iron out the kinks is essential.
.
Anyhow, here's the full log as promised. I can be reached on the official AOD IRC chat channel today if you want to get a hold of me.
.
Session Start: Sat Apr 09 23:41:51 2005
Session Ident: CHris_Beveridge
Session Ident: CHris_Beveridge (chrisbever@c-24-218-167-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)
&lt;CHris_Beveridge&gt; whats up?
&lt;B-Rad&gt; Found a dozen or so dupe bogus accounts in the forums. All activated within 80 minutes of each other on April 6th.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; Users 8112 through 8123.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; All named after pokemon.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; What I'm curious about is whether any or all of them logged votes in the thread found here... http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Number=938665
&lt;CHris_Beveridge&gt; wouldn't be able to tell what they did unfortunately.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; That's unfortunate.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; That Anime Draft thread's been taking up space in your General Anime forum for a good 5 months now. The one person who's drafted a pokemon character on her team just won two draft rounds by suspiciously large numbers.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; I'm not so concerned about a mock character draft, but I am concerned about the possibility of someone doing something similar in the monthly dub awards thread.
* CHris_Beveridge nods
&lt;CHris_Beveridge&gt; i'm banning those accounts now.
Session Close: Sat Apr 09 23:52:51 2005
.
Session Start: Sun Apr 10 00:08:11 2005
Session Ident: CHris_Beveridge
&lt;B-Rad&gt; Even if you can't peg whether or not they voted in the thread, can you at least qualify whether those accounts were activated by the same individual? (ie. identical IP info)
&lt;B-Rad&gt; And if so, would you be able to track that IP across other suspect user IDs?
&lt;CHris_Beveridge&gt; they are all from the same IP but nobody else is using that IP
&lt;CHris_Beveridge&gt; so they covered it up nicely.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; I've unearthed a few more and will forward you the details in a sec.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; Users 8060 through 8077.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; And Users 8080 through 8094.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; Looking for matching IP strings across the board.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; With regards to that 2nd group 8090 and 8092 should be fine.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; The rest are suspect.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; 8082 may also be fine... kind of questionable.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; The key accounts in those clusters, btw... are 8063 and 8089.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; Both generated isolated posts in Gravitation threads.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; I'm popping away from my computer for a bit. If I disconnect, you can fire off any details you find out on those additional accounts to me via PM in the forums when you get a chance. ^_^
&lt;B-Rad&gt; One last account to cross-check against those others. It is legit, but it's an IP match that needs to be investigated. User ID = 298.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; I should be around for most of the day so drop me a line when you get around to this. ^_^
Session Close: Sun Apr 10 12:42:16 2005
.
Session Start: Sun Apr 10 12:57:08 2005
Session Ident: Chris_Beveridge
&lt;B-Rad&gt; More fake account logins noted earlier today... 8148-8158. 8148-8153 employ the Pokemon MO noted from the batch on April 6th. Looks like they were created shortly after you banned the first batch.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; 8155 is unique in that it shows 4 posts attached to the account... and yet are trackable. I've spotted a number of new accounts over the last couple weeks with this characterization.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; Scratch that... yet aren't trackable.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; Post history shows zilch.
&lt;B-Rad&gt; 8156 may be legit. The other two probably not.
Session Close: Sun Apr 10 13:05:21 2005

[/ QUOTE ]

Shortly after receiving this, I terminated AD'05. There was no way I would be able to deem whoever won as someone who earned the victory fairly.

[rainking187]

Another idea I've been thinking of, is there are some sections that you have to login just to view, offtopic discussion, recommendations and such, would it be easier to curb fake voting if the draft was held in one of those type forums?

[ayareiko]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
Another idea I've been thinking of, is there are some sections that you have to login just to view, offtopic discussion, recommendations and such, would it be easier to curb fake voting if the draft was held in one of those type forums?

[/ QUOTE ]
Negative. You have to login to vote, and, as I pointed out earlier, there are those would have no problem creating bogus accounts to create havoc.

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:
Since the first round is a qualifying round for the draft to fill the field, that round should be open for any character choice (boy or girl) as long as it falls under the draft character limit. If the limit for a series has been reached in the qualifying round, then no one will be allowed to draft a character from that series family for the rest of the draft, unless the choice is made by a player that does not qualify for the remainder of the draft.


[/ QUOTE ]

Okay how about this:
Any/Girl/Girl/Boy/Boy/Girl/Girl/Boy/Boy/Any

For the qualifing first round take any character you want. Then for the next eight rounds go with the Boy/Girl themes. Then in the tenth round any character so those that run out of ideas could fill out there team any way they want. Again I go by this order so if we snake it both ends of the draft order gets first even shots at the themes and even the any order.

-ape2020

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:
Since the first round is a qualifying round for the draft to fill the field, that round should be open for any character choice (boy or girl) as long as it falls under the draft character limit. If the limit for a series has been reached in the qualifying round, then no one will be allowed to draft a character from that series family for the rest of the draft, unless the choice is made by a player that does not qualify for the remainder of the draft.


[/ QUOTE ]

Okay how about this:
Any/Girl/Girl/Boy/Boy/Girl/Girl/Boy/Boy/Any

For the qualifing first round take any character you want. Then for the next eight rounds go with the Boy/Girl themes. Then in the tenth round any character so those that run out of ideas could fill out there team any way they want. Again I go by this order so if we snake it both ends of the draft order gets first even shots at the themes and even the any order.

-ape2020

[/ QUOTE ]

This order sounds good to me. I hope we can get something together soon and have a draft that everyone can agree on. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
Okay how about this:
Any/Girl/Girl/Boy/Boy/Girl/Girl/Boy/Boy/Any

For the qualifing first round take any character you want. Then for the next eight rounds go with the Boy/Girl themes. Then in the tenth round any character so those that run out of ideas could fill out there team any way they want. Again I go by this order so if we snake it both ends of the draft order gets first even shots at the themes and even the any order.

[/ QUOTE ]

This order sounds good to me. I hope we can get something together soon and have a draft that everyone can agree on. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, so we have an order that makes sense; are there any objections? It seems perfectly workable to me.

Oh, and if I may make a small suggestion on something...
[ QUOTE ]
As for filling the field, I would still use the fast polls but I would have the fast polls all running at the same time with everyone that signs up for the draft. The contestants would be randomly divided into four almost even pools (some pools will have one more player than another if there are a total number of players that is not divisible by four). The top five players from each pool would enter the draft for the other nine rounds with randomly assigned starting positions for the second round and then the order would be snaked for each round thereafter.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather stagger this a bit more. Split it into 4 (or 5) groups at random, and ONLY the winner for each group gets in. Then, reshuffle the remainders, and draw it off again for a total of 5 (or 4) quick drafts. Then, and only then, will all 20 of the winning characters be all pit off against each other. It'll allow for a group that might accidentally be all strong characters to get better representation, I think, since I can see many people wanting to pick 3 people from 1 group, and nobody from another group. I wouldn't run these quick drafts for long, maybe 2 days each.

For the voting, I'll probably create an official thread to determine who would want to try to play. Please note that moderators of GA can see IPs of posters within GA, and I will be asking for monitoring of all IP SUBNETS of new accounts for potential rigging. (For those who don't know, tracing subnets lets us see if there is a surge of registration from 1 area.) Should your IP be part of a subnet showing several new accounts, you will be disqualified on the spot, and not permitted to participate in any future drafts. Furthermore, if there is a surge in account registration from redirecting services, the draft will IMMEDIATELY be declared over, and will not be permitted again.

Okay, this being said, there are a few other things I want to clear up here. We're still planning the pre-draft qualifications, and any grouping seems to be fairly done, subject to slight changes. The following still need to be determined:

-Missed drafts. (Keep the 24-hour rule? For a person on a double-pick, I would say 36 hours, but first pick MUST be in 24.)
-Make-up picks. (Again, a round 11 for this. Are we keeping something like miss 3, and you're out, subject to be replaced by someone else? Do we also want to try to speed up round 11 as a quick-pick, first to call someone in that round gets to have them?)
-Voting method. (I know I mentioned using both the poll and a PM vote, and using both to determine score. Nobody said anything about this, are there any thoughts on it?)
-Scoring. (I think the 20 for first, 19 for 2nd, etc would work well, ties resulting in everyone getting the higher score, with the +3/+2/+1 for clear 1st-3rds. In the event of a tie in the top 3, the bonus plus is determined by the LOWEST position in the tie. (I.e., a 2-way tie for 1st gets them both 22, a 2-way for 2nd gets them both 20, a 4-way tie for 1st gets them all 20.)
-Voting duration. (I assume we'll be leaving each round open for a week; are we going to create a new round each day, every other day, 1 a week, or...?)

I'm sure there's a few more things, but if we can agree to these, we may be able to get this started soon. I'm going to go ask about the IP subnet monitoring now.

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Oh, and if I may make a small suggestion on something...
[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:As for filling the field, I would still use the fast polls but I would have the fast polls all running at the same time with everyone that signs up for the draft. The contestants would be randomly divided into four almost even pools (some pools will have one more player than another if there are a total number of players that is not divisible by four). The top five players from each pool would enter the draft for the other nine rounds with randomly assigned starting positions for the second round and then the order would be snaked for each round thereafter.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather stagger this a bit more. Split it into 4 (or 5) groups at random, and ONLY the winner for each group gets in. Then, reshuffle the remainders, and draw it off again for a total of 5 (or 4) quick drafts. Then, and only then, will all 20 of the winning characters be all pit off against each other. It'll allow for a group that might accidentally be all strong characters to get better representation, I think, since I can see many people wanting to pick 3 people from 1 group, and nobody from another group. I wouldn't run these quick drafts for long, maybe 2 days each.

[/ QUOTE ]

This staggering will drag out the qualifying a bit. I'm willing to go along with this format, but have the quick drafts only go for 1 day each.

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Okay, this being said, there are a few other things I want to clear up here. We're still planning the pre-draft qualifications, and any grouping seems to be fairly done, subject to slight changes. The following still need to be determined:

-Missed drafts. (Keep the 24-hour rule? For a person on a double-pick, I would say 36 hours, but first pick MUST be in 24.)
-Make-up picks. (Again, a round 11 for this. Are we keeping something like miss 3, and you're out, subject to be replaced by someone else? Do we also want to try to speed up round 11 as a quick-pick, first to call someone in that round gets to have them?)
-Voting method. (I know I mentioned using both the poll and a PM vote, and using both to determine score. Nobody said anything about this, are there any thoughts on it?)
-Scoring. (I think the 20 for first, 19 for 2nd, etc would work well, ties resulting in everyone getting the higher score, with the +3/+2/+1 for clear 1st-3rds. In the event of a tie in the top 3, the bonus plus is determined by the LOWEST position in the tie. (I.e., a 2-way tie for 1st gets them both 22, a 2-way for 2nd gets them both 20, a 4-way tie for 1st gets them all 20.)
-Voting duration. (I assume we'll be leaving each round open for a week; are we going to create a new round each day, every other day, 1 a week, or...?)


[/ QUOTE ]

-Missed drafts - Keep the 24 Hour Rule and use the double pick suggestion.
-Make-up picks - Use a round 11 for make-up picks with a quick pick format. Only miss twice, and you're out, subject to be replaced by someone else.
-Voting method - Use both the polls and PM voting. Add the two sets of results together and divide by two in case someone sends their vote both ways or changes their vote between forms.
-Scoring - Use suggestion.
-Voting duration - One week per round. Create a new round approx. every 12 hours with staggered ending times every 12 hours.

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
I'd rather stagger this a bit more. Split it into 4 (or 5) groups at random, and ONLY the winner for each group gets in. Then, reshuffle the remainders, and draw it off again for a total of 5 (or 4) quick drafts. Then, and only then, will all 20 of the winning characters be all pit off against each other. It'll allow for a group that might accidentally be all strong characters to get better representation, I think, since I can see many people wanting to pick 3 people from 1 group, and nobody from another group. I wouldn't run these quick drafts for long, maybe 2 days each.

[/ QUOTE ]

How about this simply go by sign up date ie 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 2a, 2b, etc and then take the top four vote getters of each pool. Then one more fast poll for all the non first fast poll qualifiers in all the pools and the top four of that group get in. This way if your in a strong group then it even in the last poll as you go up against weaker foes. Pick order for the fast polls would be the same as sign up as is assigning pool 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 2a, 2b, etc, remember qualifiers can't pick the same characters even if they are in different pools.

If your willing I would think when players signup they would PM you at the same time with their pick. Subject it Fast Poll Picks and include their top three choice in order of desire. You can then go by when the PM got to you and fill out the fast polls and have a grand unveiling. If for some reason none of the picks can be used then PM the qualifier and give them 12 hrs to respond with another three choices. I would give the sign up time one week Monday-Sunday with the fast polls starting Monday Madness or Super Tuesday. This would supply the fast polls with a little drama as you won't be sure what your opponents will pick or even sure what pool you will be in. Then give the list two or three days to comment and boast about the picks.

The actually fast polls that should start not staggered but all four polls in one post. This will allow for people to vote in all the pools at once and quicken the quilifications. We want this short and brutal so say 48 for the voting. If there are ties then go with the top vote-getters that will qualify under four and add the opening to the second chance poll. For example if there are one 1st, 2 tied for 2nd and 3 tied for 3rd, only take the three that came in 1st and second and add the last opening to the second chance poll. In the second chance poll let voters have four picks as it will help avoid ties. Make sure is clearly stated in the instuctions or even subject.

Now I don't know but if past players wanted to play maybe they get a small window to sign up for the fast polls first. Its only a small edge in the fast polls but hey its better then nothing.

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
-Missed drafts. (Keep the 24-hour rule? For a person on a double-pick, I would say 36 hours, but first pick MUST be in 24.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is where we might want to do a PMs to you. The person must vote within 24 hrs or PM you with a list of choices in order of desire. If they miss these chances they are dropped to the end of the draft order this round. If they miss that chance and don't PM you they lose their pick this round. I know its harsh but I never liked the 11th round and if rounds are themed then you have to take in account those themes and what not. While I would love to just replace them what happens if this takes place in the ninth or tenth round?

This harsh method will encourage due diliegance and damn they have 24hrs and an opprotunity to PM it in. And last year most people PMed the next player to even remind them their pick is coming up. I say that is enough.

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
-Voting method. (I know I mentioned using both the poll and a PM vote, and using both to determine score. Nobody said anything about this, are there any thoughts on it?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Polls, I know they can be rigged but with a scoring system and monitoring it should be fine. PM seems redundant, inffecient, suspect, and insignificate useless we weighted them more important then the polls. For example I would guess you would get 100 votes via poll and then only 10 votes via PM. Do you total them together, even if a few voted both ways and some did not? How could you tell? Do you divide them to take that in account, what about say a character that gets three PM votes do you round up or down or a voter that just PMed? Too many questions involved and with the level of trust around here I would rather stick with polls as flawed as they are around here.

Hell I mean I was almost cruxified when I suggested we get a person we trusted to do a random drawing instead of fast polls to quicken the qualifications and get right to the draft.

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
-Scoring. (I think the 20 for first, 19 for 2nd, etc would work well, ties resulting in everyone getting the higher score, with the +3/+2/+1 for clear 1st-3rds. In the event of a tie in the top 3, the bonus plus is determined by the LOWEST position in the tie. (I.e., a 2-way tie for 1st gets them both 22, a 2-way for 2nd gets them both 20, a 4-way tie for 1st gets them all 20.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh I would rather just go with ties get lowest points for the positions their numbers takes for the ties for example lets say players a, b, c, all tie for first and x and z tie for the next highest. a, b, c, would all get 18 points since they are really taken up positions 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. While x and z would get 16 each since they are really in positions fourth and fifth. This would punish ties and account for ties that happen any where in the round like say a three way tie for the bottom of the draft. They would get one point each since they would take up positions 18th, 19th, 20th. Plus the bonuses should only be awarded if there are clearcut winners and I would only add it to the first place finisher say 2 points. This would be rather simple even if there are a ton of ties all up and down the round.

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
-Voting duration. (I assume we'll be leaving each round open for a week; are we going to create a new round each day, every other day, 1 a week, or...?)

[/ QUOTE ]

This seemed to work out well with a new round of voting starting every 24 hours and ending after five days. So the game should be done in 15 days or a little over two weeks. Five days should be enough to get to vote while shorting the time from the past by two days. I any shorter and you run the risk of people being gone over the weekend if a poll start around then.

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
I'm sure there's a few more things, but if we can agree to these, we may be able to get this started soon. I'm going to go ask about the IP subnet monitoring now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if we are going to snake the order and theme the middle eight rounds then that seems okay, nothing else comes to mind right now.

-ape2020

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
How about this simply go by sign up date ie 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 2a, 2b, etc and then take the top four vote getters of each pool. Then one more fast poll for all the non first fast poll qualifiers in all the pools and the top four of that group get in. This way if your in a strong group then it even in the last poll as you go up against weaker foes. Pick order for the fast polls would be the same as sign up as is assigning pool 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 2a, 2b, etc, remember qualifiers can't pick the same characters even if they are in different pools.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... that may work, granted, I would expect a majority of the people to be playing to be some of the old-timers, and then it may get tricky trying to sort it all. But something like that probably can be done to speed up the quick-draft; any objections?

[ QUOTE ]
If your willing I would think when players signup they would PM you at the same time with their pick. Subject it Fast Poll Picks and include their top three choice in order of desire.

[/ QUOTE ]

For an idea of secrecy, eh? That may be interesting. However, I still do need the thread for players interested, so let me go create that in a few. Besides, if we have fewer than 20 players, we can just go straight to round 1 voting, then draft 2-10, since there is nobody to eliminate.

[ QUOTE ]
Then give the list two or three days to comment and boast about the picks

[/ QUOTE ]

So the torment of just seeing the picks there, eh? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Now I don't know but if past players wanted to play maybe they get a small window to sign up for the fast polls first. Its only a small edge in the fast polls but hey its better then nothing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems to be more restarting from scratch, so I'd prefer it to be more of the forum regulars jumping in. Many of the players will see the threads, and post in due time.

[ QUOTE ]
Here is where we might want to do a PMs to you. The person must vote within 24 hrs or PM you with a list of choices in order of desire. If they miss these chances they are dropped to the end of the draft order this round. If they miss that chance and don't PM you they lose their pick this round.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ehh... I don't really care for that myself. I've no problem if someone's going to be away, having their choice (and a backup or 2) PMed to me early. However, if they miss, I disagree with just letting them go to the end of the round, especially since that would break up the double-draws. Yeah, a round 11 is a lot less of a disadvantage if you miss at round 9 vs round 3, but to me, a miss is a miss. And are we going to revise it to 2 misses and you're out? Also, for pulling in a new person (if applicable), I'd suggest that they be given the option of keeping the prior person's drafts, or immediately selecting new ones. Does that sound okay?

[ QUOTE ]
While I would love to just replace them what happens if this takes place in the ninth or tenth round?

[/ QUOTE ]

If they get multiple misses, oh well. Buh-bye.

[ QUOTE ]
Polls, I know they can be rigged but with a scoring system and monitoring it should be fine. PM seems redundant, inffecient, suspect, and insignificate useless we weighted them more important then the polls. For example I would guess you would get 100 votes via poll and then only 10 votes via PM. Do you total them together, even if a few voted both ways and some did not?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would expect some people to vote both ways. I've not yet divised a scoring method for PMs, since that would really depend on how many I would get. If it's a low number, like 10, then I would say each PM vote for a character would get them 1 additional point each. Perish the thought that I get a lot, I would prolly tally them up, and score them the same as the polls, and add the values together. I'm more leaning toward the former, since that would ensure that your vote directly gets that character 1 point, but... And from PMs, I can see if I'm getting a rash of new numbers that needs to be looked at, and it's a lot easier to DQ those should they be considered invalid votes.

[ QUOTE ]
Too many questions involved and with the level of trust around here

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why it would most likely be a mod like myself collecting them. Like I've said before, if people are concerned that I'm not reading them, go ahead and turn on read receipt. I've done ballot counting for conventions, so it's nothing new for me.

[ QUOTE ]
Uh I would rather just go with ties get lowest points for the positions their numbers takes for the ties

[/ QUOTE ]

I could see an averaging, but I disagree with the lowest. Say 1 person gets 1st, and 4 more characters are just 1 vote behind. Is that 1 extra vote worth 4 points? What if later, the person in first is shown to be a suspicious score? By giving ties the lowest number, it encourages people to try to slink by, since the advantage is bigger. By doing the highest, it both gives some people a better chance to catch up with more points, and it makes that want to rig less desirable, since it'd only be for 1 point. I don't think we should punish ties, because they're not the drafters faults.

[ QUOTE ]
Plus the bonuses should only be awarded if there are clearcut winners and I would only add it to the first place finisher say 2 points. This would be rather simple even if there are a ton of ties all up and down the round.

[/ QUOTE ]

But again, it makes a first place all that much more powerful. That's why I wanted to break away from the just a bonus for 1st place. Granted, we would then get into the issue of what if there's a 2-way tie for first, and a lone 3rd place. To counter that, we could say only a clear first and second would get bonuses, or just do away with them altogether.

[ QUOTE ]
This seemed to work out well with a new round of voting starting every 24 hours and ending after five days.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought for certain it went for 7 days to vote. That time frame really doesn't bother me. Granted, the shortening could reduce the open threads... it might work, but I'd prefer to be able to get the weekenders only to vote, since a poll starting on Monday would then close Saturday morning. But starting every 24 hours can work... 12 is just far too fast, and truthfully, even the thought of the 24 doesn't settle too well with me, since it would mean 7 active threads for voting, plus 1 more for discussion of past votes. I'd really like to try to keep the active threads on this down, but at the same time, I do think that 1 per week would just drag it out. I would say 48 hours between them, but that's me. If people think 24 is better, we can do that. However, 12 is a tad fast, especially since I won't be around for 12 hour postings...

If there's anything else, now's the time to speak up! I'm hoping to start finalizing some details by mid-week!

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
However, I still do need the thread for players interested, so let me go create that in a few.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, this thread is created, and at present, is pinned. If you would like to play, please be sure to post in that thread before it closes. If it's locked, you're too late, because I will lock it at entry close. I will NOT be looking through this thread to find players, so post there even if you've expressed interest in this thread.

All rule discussion/hashing/etc is to remain in this thread, to keep the 2 seperate. I expect to lock this thread also in about a week or so once things are all finalized.

[ape2020]

Okay do away with any bonuses period and dole out points for the average position taken in the ties So say players a, b, c, d all tie for highest and players x, y, z all tie for the next highest. So players a-d would all get 18.5 pts each (20+19+18+17)/4 and players x-z would get 15 points each (16+15+14)/3? That sounds reasonable but I would add each voter gets two or three votes in the polls to avoid ties all together. Since voting totals only effect place in the round give voters more votes to spread around and avoid ties altogether. I still would rather avoid PM votes as it complicates things and isn't instantally satisfying as a poll unveiling at the end.

For some reason I would still want a surprise round best for the first just to add a little excitement before we get to the draft proper. Do this even if there is no fast polls. Think of it as everyone againoizing if they should put in their top guns or lay back but totally blind for that first round. /images/graemlins/devil.gif /images/graemlins/devil.gif /images/graemlins/devil.gif

-ape2020

[ape2020]

Okay maybe don't do away with bonus for first second and third. But make them just medals. So if there is a tie at the end of the draft use the medal cound as the tie breaker. So if players a-c tie for first and m wins second and players y-z tie for third, players a-c all get gold, player m gets silver and players y-z get bronzes. If need at the end of the draft just convert the medals into points gold = 3, silver = 2, and bronze = 1 to break ties for first only.

If there is still a tie we have co-champions whopeee!!!!! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

-ape2020

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
Aya Reiko said:
Shortly after receiving this, I terminated AD'05. There was no way I would be able to deem whoever won as someone who earned the victory fairly.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sad thing was, by the end I found the majority of the people who'd voted for my Gravi characters. Many emailed or PMed me wishing me luck (before the scandal) and even more people offered their support (after all hell broke loose). Some believed I was being set up (either by someone who doesn't like me, a poor loser, or anti-yaoi people who couldn't bear to see a Gravitation fan at the top of the polls) and others thought it was some kind of cover up. Either way I'm just as annoyed with the situation now as I was then. And it felt really REALLY awful to be suspect when I didn't *do* anything. The game was ruined for everybody, PsychoRabbit's victory was declaired null and void, and I became the scapegoat.

But that was then, this is now. A new year, a new draft, and hopefully we can get through it without any more mass hysteria, dummy accounts, blame games and winners who can't properly enjoy their win.

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
I'd rather stagger this a bit more. Split it into 4 (or 5) groups at random, and ONLY the winner for each group gets in. Then, reshuffle the remainders, and draw it off again for a total of 5 (or 4) quick drafts. Then, and only then, will all 20 of the winning characters be all pit off against each other. It'll allow for a group that might accidentally be all strong characters to get better representation, I think, since I can see many people wanting to pick 3 people from 1 group, and nobody from another group. I wouldn't run these quick drafts for long, maybe 2 days each.


[/ QUOTE ]

When the sign up period concludes (now that we have enough people for a qualifier), do you want us to announce our choices for the fast polls and assign the pools after our announcements or do you want to assign the pools first and we make our announcements for our first draft picks after being assigned to a pool.

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:
When the sign up period concludes (now that we have enough people for a qualifier), do you want us to announce our choices for the fast polls and assign the pools after our announcements or do you want to assign the pools first and we make our announcements for our first draft picks after being assigned to a pool.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's only gauging interest so I wouldn't do anything yet. If its done like last year we will be picking according to who responded first and pick as if its a normal draft.

I would like to see PM fast poll picks and have them announced all at once!

I gave an example of draft and pool assignment done by entry PMs. Basically its everyone PM their top three draft picks by order of desire and going by the time they arrive they are assigned to a pool 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 2a, 2b, 2c, 2d, 3a... This way not only will there be a suprise as to drafted who but also who is in what pool.

I would post a future time and date to accept PM fast poll picks and give 48 hrs to PM them in. If for some reason a pick can't be made due to it be gone already then an email will go out to them and they must submit 3 more picks in order of desire.

After all the players have made good fast poll picks reveal them and the pools then give a few days to comment, boast, and ridicule the picks before the actually fast polls.

-ape2020

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
He's only gauging interest so I wouldn't do anything yet. If its done like last year we will be picking according to who responded first and pick as if its a normal draft.

I would like to see PM fast poll picks and have them announced all at once!

I gave an example of draft and pool assignment done by entry PMs. Basically its everyone PM their top three draft picks by order of desire and going by the time they arrive they are assigned to a pool 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, 2a, 2b, 2c, 2d, 3a... This way not only will there be a suprise as to drafted who but also who is in what pool.

I would post a future time and date to accept PM fast poll picks and give 48 hrs to PM them in. If for some reason a pick can't be made due to it be gone already then an email will go out to them and they must submit 3 more picks in order of desire.

After all the players have made good fast poll picks reveal them and the pools then give a few days to comment, boast, and ridicule the picks before the actually fast polls.

[/ QUOTE ]

Picks will come in before the pools will be announced. I will have round 1 drafts PMed to me, to keep that element of surprise, and nobody will know who anyone else has. I've already figured out how I will handle that:

To enter (NOT YET):
PM me with a list of characters you want to use for round 1, putting the characters you want the most at the top of the list. I will reply, in order that the PMs come in, which character from your list got in, or if all your characters are already taken. It may be in your best interest to send a fairly sizable list. Sending an additional PM later will change your list, however, any other PMs from others before your change will come first, and may result in a change to a character not being availiable. IF YOUR OLD CHARACTER PICK IS NOT ANYWHERE ON YOUR NEW LIST, YOU WILL LOSE YOUR OLD CHARACTER, AS IT WILL BE ASSUMED THAT YOU NO LONGER WANT THEM. Times will be posted when I am accepting PMs for the window you have; you can count on having at least 72 hours from my start time.

Determining draw order:
I'm going to do fast draws in 3 rounds. There will be 5 groups, and people will be assigned to a group randomly. (Actually, there is a formula, but I am not disclosing it.) In the first round, positions 1-5 will go to the winners of each group, with position 1 going to the person with the highest percentage of votes for their group. 6-10 will go to the 2nd place for each poll, using the same percentage rule for which slot within. A second round of the remainders will then happen, and the 5 groups will see reassignment, hopefully to change the competition for the character. Only the winners will get in, taking 11-15 based on the same percent rule. The remainders go into a final fast draw, with no grouping. The top 5 will then get positions 16-20.

Ties in fast polls:
If there is a tie in one of the first fast poll, the following will happen:
For first- A 2-way tie will result in winners getting positions 1-6 (or however many have 2-way ties), and no second place will be drawn from that group. A 3-way tie or greater will result in following of the 2nd place draw rules, less 1 person for the additional slot availiable.
For second- Up to 2 groups may have a draw for second, and the drawers will get in (filling up to slot 12). If there are 3 or more draws, a mini-face-off will be done among all the tied entries, with the appropriate number getting in to bring the entry count to 10. Should there be a 3-way tie for 1 group, ALL of the players tied for second within that group will not qualify, and an additional spot will be opened up in the final round.
The second fast poll will use the same rules as ties for the second place ties from the first round, with the exception that for a 3-way tie, if there are NO other ties, those extra players will get in. If there is any other tie with a 3-way, a mini-face-off will occur among all the tied characters from all groups.
In the final round, if there is a tie for position 20, up to 2 additional players will be allowed to enter, up to 22 total. Should the tie require more than 22 total players, all tied for that last position will enter a mini-face-off.
In all cases, if a tie allows multiple people to enter with the same condition, the determining factor for who gets the earlier position will go to the person who submitted their pick first. Remember that changing your list will reassign you to the back of the line.
As a result of ties, there may be less than 5 positions availiable for the last round. However, at least 1, and no more than 10, position(s) is(are) guaranteed to exist for that round.

Voting:
The fast polls will be conducted by forum poll only, and will be open for exactly 48 hours each. Voters may choose 1 from each group. For the actual polls, polls will be open for exactly 1 week, and the main system of voting will be through forum poll. Users may choose 2 of the candidates from each round. First place in each round is worth 20 points, less 1 point for each position down the line. Should positions 21 or greater exist, they are worth 0 points. In the event of a tie, all players will get the score of the highest position in the tie. A bonus of 5 points will also be awarded to a solo 1st place, 3 points to a solo 2nd place, and 1 point to a solo 3rd place.
In addition, votes will also be accepted via PM, but are not required, and a player may vote using both methods. PM votes may only contain 1 character. To vote via PM, please send a PM with the subject 'AD 2006 vote round X', where X is the current round number. Should the total PM count for a round be less than 20, each vote for a character will net that character 1 point each. If there are 20 or more votes, the same scoring for the polls will be used, except that 1st place will be worth the total number of different characters to get at least 1 PM vote. In order to vote via PM, a player must either be registered for at least 2 weeks prior to the vote, or have at least 25 posts. PM votes will be accepted during the same window the poll is open for that round.

Drafting characters:
Only the fast drafts, which will also determine the characters used in round 1, will be done through PMs. Rounds 2-10 will be done in snaking order, starting with draft position 1 in round 2. Position 20 (assumed to be the final position) will draft the last character for round 2, AND the first character for round 3, working backwards back up the list.
Players will be expected to follow the draft. Once the person before them picks, they will have 24 hours to make their pick, time going by the AoD post times. In the event that you are in position 1 or 20, you have a total of 36 hours to pick your second character, but you first character MUST be picked within the first 24. In addition, a player may not draft more than 1 character from any series/universe, and no more than 5 people may come from the same series/universe across the game. (The only exception to this rule being in the blind draft of round 1.)

Missed drafts:
Should you miss your draft, you must wait for round 11 to pick your replacement. Please note that if you miss this deadline twice, YOU WILL BE EJECTED FROM THE DRAFT! If you anticipate a period of time that you will not be around, you may pre-emptively PM me a list of characters you wish to choose, and the first one off of your list will be drafted for you while you are away.

Ejection/replacement:
During the draft phase, you may only be ejected if you miss 2 draft picks, or you choose to withdraw. If this happens, and the total player count drops below 20, the next player from the final round of the fast draw will be offered the position, including position number. They will also be offered if they wish to keep the character(s) picked thus far by that person, or if they wish to pick new ones. If new ones are opted for, the old picks are eligible for re-draft upon an approved new selection for the position.
During the rounds, a player will only be ejected should they be found to be manipulating the results. Since the voting process has started at this point, nobody will be selected to fill in the position, and future rounds will not have their characters listed in the polls.

Finalizing:
After 10 rounds, the winner will be the person with the most points. Should there be a tie, there is a table of events to determine a winner, based on the NASCAR scoring system.

These will be the final rules for AD 2006. Any further proposals may be negotiated after this game is over for inclusion in 2007.

[Helschadenfreude]

Wait, question. so you can vote by Pm and Poll? or one or the other?

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
GyBaNOJunior said:
Wait, question. so you can vote by Pm and Poll? or one or the other?

[/ QUOTE ]

As things stand now, the poll is the primary method, but people may also vote via PM. It's sort of a backup method, should the polls go haywire again. And both are permitted, since nobody seemed to object to my mention of it several times prior. (I also have no way of knowing if you've voted in the poll or not if you send me a PM...)

[rainking187]

Just my opinion, but it seems like there's an awful lot of rules being added to this thing. I thought the only real problem with the draft was the cheating accusation, and I honestly don't see how allowing people to vote twice (PM and Poll) changes any of that. You've still got the flawed poll system and no obvious way I can see to stop cheating. The snaking voting seems like a good idea, but I don't understand why we'd be PMing you our picks for the first round instead of just posting them like always. Seems like if every character you choose is already picked by the time you send your PM in,(which would be likely if you only pick really popular characters(which would be advisible if you want to make it in the draft)) you could be out of luck. At least with posting your choices you'd know what's already picked, as opposed to this method, where only you know what characters have already been taken. I think the theme rounds could be interesting, but I don't think the sex of the character should be mandatory. I only picked female characters in the first draft, and honestly, I don't really have any interest in drafting male characters in this one. I think rounds like "Mascot" or "Super Villain" or "Crybaby" or "Total Idiot" which would be more gender neutral would be better.

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
Just my opinion, but it seems like there's an awful lot of rules being added to this thing. I thought the only real problem with the draft was the cheating accusation, and I honestly don't see how allowing people to vote twice (PM and Poll) changes any of that. You've still got the flawed poll system and no obvious way I can see to stop cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems to give some a sense of security so I guess thats why its in there. Personally I think it gives those that take the time to PM a greater voting power and complicate things but oh well.

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
The snaking voting seems like a good idea, but I don't understand why we'd be PMing you our picks for the first round instead of just posting them like always. Seems like if every character you choose is already picked by the time you send your PM in,(which would be likely if you only pick really popular characters(which would be advisible if you want to make it in the draft)) you could be out of luck. At least with posting your choices you'd know what's already picked, as opposed to this method, where only you know what characters have already been taken.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a first round fast poll thing to add a greater element of excitement and surprise. Think of it as a theme round. It also why when you draft that first person send in a big list. Its a blind pick with no looking at others to counter pick. Your going to have to think long an hard about that pick.

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
I think the theme rounds could be interesting, but I don't think the sex of the character should be mandatory. I only picked female characters in the first draft, and honestly, I don't really have any interest in drafting male characters in this one. I think rounds like "Mascot" or "Super Villain" or "Crybaby" or "Total Idiot" which would be more gender neutral would be better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well boy/girl was the most general catagory they could come up with. Can't really do the other since they are more narrow then gender. And what if others don't want to do Crybaby or super villian or are doing theme teams like I will be doing? We wanted to introduce themes this year so it was suggested we go with one of the most broadest fields around with gender. If you don't want male characters draft mascots or gender switchers. The gender theme has many loopholes to get around it.

-ape2020

[AnnaSartin]

The rules and guidelines look good to me. When should we PM you our round 1 draft lists, D-kun?

[cairber]

I'm not clear on one thing- are only the first 20 people who signed up going to play or everyone?

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
cairber said:
I'm not clear on one thing- are only the first 20 people who signed up going to play or everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone who signed up is going to be put in the qualifying polls and the 20 people to form the field will be chosen from there.

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
cairber said:
I'm not clear on one thing- are only the first 20 people who signed up going to play or everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

No anyone and everyone can play but the first round is a qualifier. With fast polls used to determine who will get to play in rounds 2-10. So get a list of your top fast poll picks together and wait for the time to PM them in. I have mine including two different theme I will be shooting for if I get in.

Now gameplan for these fast polls can be a little different then the draft or even the fast polls of last year.

First it might be a good idea to select a popular character, unless you do some serious campaigning for said character (Warning: Some don't look to kindly on such proactive activies an may incur a backlash.) If you want to play the fast poll qualifiers is no place to pick wildly or only in region 2 selection, like D's left Hand or Yuko of XXXholics. Then again you could see it as a real challenge to get a untested rookie character in like I did with Mikura or others did with Brendon Heat and Princess Tutu. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Second have a list of at least 3-5 characters to send in and a backup plan just in case. While this really shouldn't be that big of a problem. Since no characters will be reserved from last year and we have another year of anime in region 1 you never know. This is different then last year where you could look at who selected who. There some chose a character because they thought it would do well against field.

Have fun for god sake since you may not get into the draft proper. Gab up your pick once they are revealed and generate buzz.

-ape2020

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
unless you do some serious campaigning for said character (Warning: Some don't look to kindly on such proactive activies an may incur a backlash.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that the truth! /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif Speaking of which, I'd like for specific rules to be hammered out in regards to campaigning, so that future people who campaign don't get accused of stuffing the ballot box.

What is considered acceptable (and unacceptable) campaigning this year?

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
unless you do some serious campaigning for said character (Warning: Some don't look to kindly on such proactive activies an may incur a backlash.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that the truth! /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif Speaking of which, I'd like for specific rules to be hammered out in regards to campaigning, so that future people who campaign don't get accused of stuffing the ballot box.

What is considered acceptable (and unacceptable) campaigning this year?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say have a discussion thread running during the announcement, fast polls, and during the voting after all the draft picks have been made phases that are seperate from the voting threads for campaigning and talking about the draft. Also, no sig line campaigning for candidates (Keep all campaigning in the discussion thread), and no posting in the voting threads (just vote and talk about who you picked in the discussion thread, if you desire).

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:
[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
unless you do some serious campaigning for said character (Warning: Some don't look to kindly on such proactive activies an may incur a backlash.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that the truth! /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif Speaking of which, I'd like for specific rules to be hammered out in regards to campaigning, so that future people who campaign don't get accused of stuffing the ballot box.

What is considered acceptable (and unacceptable) campaigning this year?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say have a discussion thread running during the announcement, fast polls, and during the voting after all the draft picks have been made phases that are seperate from the voting threads for campaigning and talking about the draft. Also, no sig line campaigning for candidates (Keep all campaigning in the discussion thread), and no posting in the voting threads (just vote and talk about who you picked in the discussion thread, if you desire).

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, how dracoining! /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif

Expecting forum members to vote in one thread and then seek out another to boast about their picks and votes. From past observations that would surely put a wet blanket on things rather quickly. Personally I don't mind posting to the voting voting thread since I see no need for additional threads. And as for campaigning in ones personal sig that is each persons own progative as long as its not a link that auto votes for those who click it. Outside AOD maybe looked down on but I always see as a chance to get more people to join in our little digital playground. I guess I'm a little more positive outlook then most.

-ape2020

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:
[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
unless you do some serious campaigning for said character (Warning: Some don't look to kindly on such proactive activies an may incur a backlash.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that the truth! /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif Speaking of which, I'd like for specific rules to be hammered out in regards to campaigning, so that future people who campaign don't get accused of stuffing the ballot box.

What is considered acceptable (and unacceptable) campaigning this year?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say have a discussion thread running during the announcement, fast polls, and during the voting after all the draft picks have been made phases that are seperate from the voting threads for campaigning and talking about the draft. Also, no sig line campaigning for candidates (Keep all campaigning in the discussion thread), and no posting in the voting threads (just vote and talk about who you picked in the discussion thread, if you desire).

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, how dracoining! /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif

Expecting forum members to vote in one thread and then seek out another to boast about their picks and votes. From past observations that would surely put a wet blanket on things rather quickly. Personally I don't mind posting to the voting voting thread since I see no need for additional threads. And as for campaigning in ones personal sig that is each persons own progative as long as its not a link that auto votes for those who click it. Outside AOD maybe looked down on but I always see as a chance to get more people to join in our little digital playground. I guess I'm a little more positive outlook then most.

-ape2020

[/ QUOTE ]

We did something like this when we had the VA draft over in the English track forum. No one there had any problems with that. Also, having seperate threads helps to keep things clean in the voting thread.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
What is considered acceptable (and unacceptable) campaigning this year?

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, let's get this defined.

For both previous ADs, talking/campaigning in the voting thread was acceptable. I will not change this, as it's the talk that helps keep the thread near the top. A silent thread can get lost too easily.

For campaigning, I have no problem with a line in your sig asking for votes for your character, and linking to the voting thread. (Also remember that the 4-line forum rule remains in effect.) However, the links may NOT automatically cast the vote for your character. Regarding posting, a post may not be made outside of an AD thread for the sole purpose of soliciting votes. Also, campaigning outside of the AoD community is strongly advised against. (Remember that IPs for new accounts will also be monitored, and a surge of new accounts from your area WILL draw suspiscion.)

[penguin_tango]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
, the links may NOT automatically cast the vote for your character. Regarding posting, a post may not be made outside of an AD thread for the sole purpose of soliciting votes. Also, campaigning outside of the AoD community is strongly advised against. (Remember that IPs for new accounts will also be monitored, and a surge of new accounts from your area WILL draw suspiscion.)

[/ QUOTE ]


I have a question. What about the people who change their avatars to reflect their current pick? Will it be ok to post in the avatar thread showing off the new icon stating why you have chosen your image?

[Nuriko]

I agree, afterall this anime draft was meant for AOD's members exclusively. To have outsiders or members from other forums vote is viewed as cheating imo. I think it was bought up in the past if we can mandate members to have 100 posts before voting. Would that be a good idea?

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
You've still got the flawed poll system and no obvious way I can see to stop cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the poll system IS flawed. That's why I have a backup. PMs are a lot easier to track for someone trying to rig things. (It's also why there is a basic requirement for a PM vote to be accepted- the member for 2 weeks or 25 posts {loss of newbie status}.)

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why we'd be PMing you our picks for the first round instead of just posting them like always.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figure that MOST people are over it, however, I don't want to have someone try something by editing their post stealthly. I don't really think it will happen, but it's being guarded against. If people are REALLY against this idea, I can probably come up with another method, but it would require everyone to do something extra.

[ QUOTE ]
Seems like if every character you choose is already picked by the time you send your PM in,(which would be likely if you only pick really popular characters(which would be advisible if you want to make it in the draft)) you could be out of luck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Time is of the essense. It always has been for these. It's also why I specified that there's no limit of people you can put in the list. You can have 200 characters in the list if you want. (Granted, I'll prolly look at you a little weird, since I don't expect to have 200 people playing, but...)

[ QUOTE ]
I think the theme rounds could be interesting, but I don't think the sex of the character should be mandatory. I only picked female characters in the first draft, and honestly, I don't really have any interest in drafting male characters in this one. I think rounds like "Mascot" or "Super Villain" or "Crybaby" or "Total Idiot" which would be more gender neutral would be better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Admittingly, I prefer that also, but I know that it saw a lot more opposition. I am also considering possibly slacking up on the mandated sex for 8 of the 10 rounds, and scaling it back to 4 of them, and leaving the other 6 open pick. So I'll ask this as a general question: do people want actual themes like mentioned in the above quote, just picking by sex (and for 4 or 8 of the rounds?), or a total free-for-all? Any of these are doable.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
cairber said:
I'm not clear on one thing- are only the first 20 people who signed up going to play or everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

EVERY forum member is eligible to send me a PM for the fast-drafts. From there, it will be the top 20 who get their fast-draft picks into the actual round 1. Perish the thought that I get inundated with PMs wanting to play, should I possibly increase the number of players? (Such as, if I get 60 people wanting to play, should I up the number of actual players to 25? Points would of course be adjusted accordingly.)

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
penguin_tango said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
, the links may NOT automatically cast the vote for your character. Regarding posting, a post may not be made outside of an AD thread for the sole purpose of soliciting votes. Also, campaigning outside of the AoD community is strongly advised against. (Remember that IPs for new accounts will also be monitored, and a surge of new accounts from your area WILL draw suspiscion.)

[/ QUOTE ]


I have a question. What about the people who change their avatars to reflect their current pick? Will it be ok to post in the avatar thread showing off the new icon stating why you have chosen your image?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good question. Yes, that will be permissable, however, campaigning in that thread will not be permitted.

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Admittingly, I prefer that also, but I know that it saw a lot more opposition. I am also considering possibly slacking up on the mandated sex for 8 of the 10 rounds, and scaling it back to 4 of them, and leaving the other 6 open pick. So I'll ask this as a general question: do people want actual themes like mentioned in the above quote, just picking by sex (and for 4 or 8 of the rounds?), or a total free-for-all? Any of these are doable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Use the themes for 8 of the 10 rounds.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
The rules and guidelines look good to me. When should we PM you our round 1 draft lists, D-kun?

[/ QUOTE ]

Watch the pinned 'Who's interested' thread for that. I want to make sure that everyone's happy with the rules, then I will solicit there. (I'll also change the subject to reflect the acceptance of PMs.)

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
cairber said:
I'm not clear on one thing- are only the first 20 people who signed up going to play or everyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

EVERY forum member is eligible to send me a PM for the fast-drafts. From there, it will be the top 20 who get their fast-draft picks into the actual round 1. Perish the thought that I get inundated with PMs wanting to play, should I possibly increase the number of players? (Such as, if I get 60 people wanting to play, should I up the number of actual players to 25? Points would of course be adjusted accordingly.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't the sign up cutoff time in about 15 minutes (Midnight Thursday - start of day) or is that time being extended?

[rainking187]

[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:Isn't the sign up cutoff time in about 15 minutes (Midnight Thursday - start of day) or is that time being extended?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it is tonight, I believe only 27 people have signed up, are we still going through with the voting or would everyone make it in? It would suck if we went to voting to be one of the seven that got left out.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:Isn't the sign up cutoff time in about 15 minutes (Midnight Thursday - start of day) or is that time being extended?

[/ QUOTE ]

If it is tonight, I believe only 27 people have signed up, are we still going through with the voting or would everyone make it in? It would suck if we went to voting to be one of the seven that got left out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably will keep the cap at 20. The weedout also allows me to determine draft order, which is the main point to it. At 27, it'd be easier to just let everyone in, but then I'd have to determine how to make the draft order.

Oh, and that part of the other thread is already obsolete. (Sorry...) I'll be going by PMs for knowing the actual number of players. I guess I should go update that, shouldn't I?

[rainking187]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:I'll be going by PMs for knowing the actual number of players.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about those of us that just posted in the thread and didn't send a PM, do we now also have to send you a PM to sign up?

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:I'll be going by PMs for knowing the actual number of players.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about those of us that just posted in the thread and didn't send a PM, do we now also have to send you a PM to sign up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, sorry, no. I meant for when I ask for your pick for the fast-draft. A PM right now is not necessary; I can see who all wants to play in that thread.

[excel7769]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:I'll be going by PMs for knowing the actual number of players.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about those of us that just posted in the thread and didn't send a PM, do we now also have to send you a PM to sign up?

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a really good question, I'd like to play and I posted in the other thread as well. All of the rules are okay by me, no objections or complaints. The only other question I have is preparing our teams. I've seen the posts with the different "themes" are those pre-set themes done by mod, or are these "themes" ones we come up with on our own?
Okay ignore my first question, we must've posted near the same time. Sorry /images/graemlins/shy00000.gif

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
excel7769 said:
[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:I'll be going by PMs for knowing the actual number of players.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about those of us that just posted in the thread and didn't send a PM, do we now also have to send you a PM to sign up?

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a really good question, I'd like to play and I posted in the other thread as well. All of the rules are okay by me, no objections or complaints. The only other question I have is preparing our teams. I've seen the posts with the different "themes" are those pre-set themes done by mod, or are these "themes" ones we come up with on our own?
Okay ignore my first question, we must've posted near the same time. Sorry /images/graemlins/shy00000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe... it's okay. The theme would be set by round, but that's still in the air as of now. Part of me is debating about axing it altogether for this year to get this thing off the ground and decomplicate one thing at least. But that's why I asked what everyone thinks about the idea of themes/sex rounds etc.

[rainking187]

Just because it hasn't been answered yet, is the sign up closed or are you going to extend it?

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
Just because it hasn't been answered yet, is the sign up closed or are you going to extend it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, sorry... it's extended. Probably until sometime in Friday, I'm guessing. It may go later, though... I'm as of now still undecided, especially since I want these rules to be defined completely.

[Jimmie M]

I have no objections to the rules as they are now.

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
The rules and guidelines look good to me. When should we PM you our round 1 draft lists, D-kun?

[/ QUOTE ]

Watch the pinned 'Who's interested' thread for that. I want to make sure that everyone's happy with the rules, then I will solicit there. (I'll also change the subject to reflect the acceptance of PMs.)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see why its so hard to do the oringal pattern any/boy/boy/girl/girl/boy/boy/girl/girl/any I mean going by gender it the broadest catagory and it has plenty of loop holes like mascots, robots, and other gender twisting characters. But okay the only sticking point seems to be the themes. So maybe we should scale it back to say any/any/any/boy/boy/girl/girl/any/any/any.

But I do see a problem using most other themes unless you go with genres like Hentai, Yuri, Yaoi, or shoen, but that had its own set of defination problems. I don't want to go with silly villians or crybabys since that makes the theme too narrow.

All the rest of the rules look fine by me so I await the signal to send in my list.

-ape2020

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
What is considered acceptable (and unacceptable) campaigning this year?

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, let's get this defined.

For both previous ADs, talking/campaigning in the voting thread was acceptable. I will not change this, as it's the talk that helps keep the thread near the top. A silent thread can get lost too easily.

For campaigning, I have no problem with a line in your sig asking for votes for your character, and linking to the voting thread. (Also remember that the 4-line forum rule remains in effect.) However, the links may NOT automatically cast the vote for your character. Regarding posting, a post may not be made outside of an AD thread for the sole purpose of soliciting votes. Also, campaigning outside of the AoD community is strongly advised against. (Remember that IPs for new accounts will also be monitored, and a surge of new accounts from your area WILL draw suspiscion.)

[/ QUOTE ]

One more question. Regarding the use of PMs. Is it acceptable to campaign to AOD members via use of the PM system (since it's part of AOD) or is it taboo?

[Nuriko]

As for theme rounds focusing on gender, 4 is definitely doable and still gives a challenge due to the ordering in which gendered characters are mandatory picked, a choice will have to be made for those who are playing. 8 is a bit tougher and allows lesser flexibility, so I vote for 4 just to spice things up and make it a tad bit more difficult compared to previous drafts.

However, if you think about it, when it comes to voting time, you'll see 20 males characters all at once. Actually that is alot already since I don't even know if we had more than 20 male characters in the past 2 drafts! lol It's not as good looking when all the pictures/avatars are lined up /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif A mix and well diversed order of characters will look prettier, heaheaheheah

In the end, I say screw the theme rounds, free for all and let people choose whatever they feel like. This way, those who choose first does not have an advantage. I recall in the first draft, I was like dead last and being able to see who everyone picked gave me a better idea of how I should counteract.

I also don't agree with PM's, as I think there will alot of overlapping characters. It is more fun to see which characters have already been chosen so that the next person can find a more suitable alternative, imo.

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
I also don't agree with PM's, as I think there will alot of overlapping characters. It is more fun to see which characters have already been chosen so that the next person can find a more suitable alternative, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have point. I could see Dunno having to sort though a bazillion Narutos and other popular characters and having to figure out who got what first. @_@ Plus I'll miss the commentary after each pick. But either way works for me, I just wanna play! /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[plaidwolf]

Wow....take some time away and see what crops up? (Besides a certain plaid-green critter)...and see what else come out of the gloom..the Draft!

Allow me to refresh memories by posting my original proposed scoring system from late last year...

The Proposed AOD Draft Scoring System

This is loosely based upon the NASCAR style of scoring, where participants receive points on a downward scale system. This system rewards teams that perform consistently throughout the ten rounds of the draft and minimizes as much as possible the chance that a team can have a couple of good scores, a lot of lousy scores, and still win the overall championship. This system also to an extent would discourage stuffing the ballot box in that the points are awarded based upon overall round finish, not number of votes received.

Winners of each round get five bonus points.

The scoring is as follows:

1st – 25 points
2nd – 19 points
3rd – 18 points
4th – 17 points
5th – 16 points
6th – 15 points
7th – 14 points
8th – 13 points
9th – 12 points
10th –11 points
11th –10 points
12th – 9 points
13th – 8 points
14th – 7 points
15th – 6 points
16th - 5 points
17th – 4 points
18th - 3 points
19th – 2 points
20th – 1 point


If players are tied when a round ends, such as a two-way tie or three-way tie, all tied players will receive points to the highest finish. The next unbroken player will be placed at the next place below the tied players

For instance, we have a three way tie for third…all the tied players would receive 3rd place points (18). The next player would be deemed as the sixth place finisher and get 15 points for that finish, and so on for any other ties in that round…see below:

1 A &gt; 25 pts
2 B &gt; 19 pts
3 C &gt; 18
3 D &gt; 18
3 E &gt; 18
6 F &gt; 15
7 G &gt; 14
7 H &gt; 14
9 I &gt; 12
9 J &gt; 12
9 K &gt; 12
9 L &gt; 12
13 M &gt; 8
14 N &gt; 7
15 O &gt; 6
16 P &gt; 5
17 Q &gt; 4
18 R &gt; 3
18 S &gt; 3
20 T &gt; 1

If we have a tie for first place at the end of any round, all tied players will receive 20 points for first place, but NO 5 point bonus will be awarded. The rest of the points will be awarded as detailed above. However, any 20-point tie for first will otherwise be treated the same as a 25-point first in Step One of the tiebreaker procedures…

Scoring for the first two rounds will be ranked by scores only. Ties will be unbroken. After Round Three scoring is completed and totalled, ties IN THE STANDINGS between players are to be broken as follows (I refined some of this today to make some things clearer, and to minimize the chance of the dreaded coin-flip):

1. Number of first places won
2. Number of top five finishes
3. Point total of top five finishes
4. Number of top ten finishes
5. Point total of top ten finishes
6. Point total of top 15 finishes
7. Lower number of bottom five finishes
8. Point total of bottom five finishes
9. Coin flip (ONLY at the end of the 10th round of voting to determine final standings…prior rounds will simply be tied )

(if three or more players are tied, go through all tiebreakers until one player wins top billing, then revert to the top of the tiebreaker process for the remaining players until all are placed.)


Again, what i wanted to do here was minimize the ballot-box stuffing (no blowout scores from higher than normal vote tallies, nor tilted scoring for other players) and reward those GMs that draft consistently well...

(The purpose of the five point bonuses for a solo first place finisher was to minimize the chances of ties as the game progresses...but i would be OK with a three point bonus for a non-tied second and a non-tied third...but any ties in the top positions get no bonus points)

PS &gt; I have NO interest in playinbg this year, but I WOULD be alright if i was requested to be the offical scorekeeper for the process

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
PS &gt; I have NO interest in playinbg this year, but I WOULD be alright if i was requested to be the offical scorekeeper for the process

[/ QUOTE ]

I request it! I'm disappointed you won't be playing this year, but I still hope you'll be involved in the fun. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif You put a lot of effort into saving the Draft last year!

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
I also don't agree with PM's, as I think there will alot of overlapping characters. It is more fun to see which characters have already been chosen so that the next person can find a more suitable alternative, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have point. I could see Dunno having to sort though a bazillion Narutos and other popular characters and having to figure out who got what first. @_@ Plus I'll miss the commentary after each pick. But either way works for me, I just wanna play! /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

But there will be commentary when the fast polls and pools are announced. I not so worried about a billion Nurato because there are a hunderds of popular characters and I think most players will end up picking different characters. Anyhoo this would only happpen in the fast polls as the regalur draft will be done as before.

-ape2020

[ape2020]

I think we are dumping bonus all together and a better way to avoid ties was to allow voters to choose two or three characters if they want in a round. More votes means less likely to tie.

-ape2020

[guyver83]

Sorry but I also won't be in this draft this year. Just too much shit went down last year and all that other good stuff. I'll be on the sidelines watching.

[excel7769]

I like your style of scoring... (being a NASCAR fan myself) this seems to be the most fair way to do it. And in the unlikely event of a tie, you got a good way of keeping it fair for all, anyone who places (As per your example) 3rd would expect third place points, not just some random interpretation of who was third, fourth and fifth.
Also I've also no problem with you being the scorekeeper, although as others have said, it would be fun to have you in the competition (The more the merrier I always say.)

[Scribble]

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
I think it was bought up in the past if we can mandate members to have 100 posts before voting. Would that be a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been around more than a year, and have fewer than 100 posts (I just don't post very often). If we could restrict things based on when someone joined the forums, I think that would be better, assuming restictions are necessary.

I'm also (just to toss in my opinion now that that things are getting simple) not keen on the "theme rounds", boy/girl themes included, just because my taste in favorite characters is rather narrow. What if there were a so-called "11th round" in which people, after having voted for individual characters in rounds 1-10, voted for who had the best (or most well-rounded) team.

On the other hand, I seem to remember an idea like that coming up before (maybe last year) and getting rejected. Just thought I'd put in my two cents.

[DiGiKerot]

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said: I think it was bought up in the past if we can mandate members to have 100 posts before voting. Would that be a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

What about poor people like myself who have been around since long before the forums current iteration, but have recently had the forum software delete their account randomly? (Not that I don't have over 100 posts - just - but it would be very annoying for anyone in that kind of situation).

[TnAdct1]

One question that I'd like to ask: will anyone be conducting interviews with the competitors a la last year?

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
Scribble said:
What if there were a so-called "11th round" in which people, after having voted for individual characters in rounds 1-10, voted for who had the best (or most well-rounded) team.

On the other hand, I seem to remember an idea like that coming up before (maybe last year) and getting rejected. Just thought I'd put in my two cents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember that idea coming up last year, too. I think part of the problem is the draft is so LONG, you know?

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
TnAdct1 said:
One question that I'd like to ask: will anyone be conducting interviews with the competitors a la last year?

[/ QUOTE ]

I might strike up the slander machine...er I mean independant character assisnation...uh I mean colorfully slanted lies...well lets say my camp might not be quiet despite the sins committed in the past. /images/graemlins/wink.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif

-ape2020

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
DiGiKerot said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said: I think it was bought up in the past if we can mandate members to have 100 posts before voting. Would that be a good idea?

[/ QUOTE ]

What about poor people like myself who have been around since long before the forums current iteration, but have recently had the forum software delete their account randomly? (Not that I don't have over 100 posts - just - but it would be very annoying for anyone in that kind of situation).

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I don't think I'll be changing my stance on this- only 1 of the clauses needs to be met. (The 2 clauses being 25 posts, or regged for 2 weeks.) If someone's account was legitimately devoured into a hiccup, then an exception could be made for them.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
I don't see why its so hard to do the oringal pattern any/boy/boy/girl/girl/boy/boy/girl/girl/any I mean going by gender it the broadest catagory and it has plenty of loop holes like mascots, robots, and other gender twisting characters. But okay the only sticking point seems to be the themes. So maybe we should scale it back to say any/any/any/boy/boy/girl/girl/any/any/any.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I'll just do away with it altogether, since it seems to have a lot of issues. It'll be easier to make it a free-for-all, so that we can have more time to go through the theme idea for next year. I'll address the other posts.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Okay, let's get this defined.

For both previous ADs, talking/campaigning in the voting thread was acceptable. I will not change this, as it's the talk that helps keep the thread near the top. A silent thread can get lost too easily.

For campaigning, I have no problem with a line in your sig asking for votes for your character, and linking to the voting thread. (Also remember that the 4-line forum rule remains in effect.) However, the links may NOT automatically cast the vote for your character. Regarding posting, a post may not be made outside of an AD thread for the sole purpose of soliciting votes. Also, campaigning outside of the AoD community is strongly advised against. (Remember that IPs for new accounts will also be monitored, and a surge of new accounts from your area WILL draw suspiscion.)

[/ QUOTE ]

One more question. Regarding the use of PMs. Is it acceptable to campaign to AOD members via use of the PM system (since it's part of AOD) or is it taboo?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... I'm going to say no, because I don't want someone to try to twist my words, and use it to send bulk unsolicited PMs.

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:(The 2 clauses being 25 posts, or regged for 2 weeks.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Now hold on a second here. I thought Chris set it up so you can't even tell how many posts a user has. Or wait maybe because you are a Mod, you can tell how many posts every one has unlike a regular user. I know people can at least see their own posts. So I know how many I have.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
I recall in the first draft, I was like dead last and being able to see who everyone picked gave me a better idea of how I should counteract.

I also don't agree with PM's, as I think there will alot of overlapping characters. It is more fun to see which characters have already been chosen so that the next person can find a more suitable alternative, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Truthfully, the first quoted paragraph is part of the reason why I like the idea of PMs for the fast-pick. I'd prefer to not have others bounce off others, so it will really be an open field of characters. However, only that will see the PMs for drafting, all others will be in the open. Trying to collect PMs for every round would actually be too much work! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[AnnaSartin]

So now all we need is your okay to send our lists, D-kun! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif I'm glad glad you're our mod for this, although (like Wolfy) I would love to have seen what kind of team you would have compiled had you been playing! ^_^

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
1. Number of first places won
2. Number of top five finishes
3. Point total of top five finishes
4. Number of top ten finishes
5. Point total of top ten finishes
6. Point total of top 15 finishes
7. Lower number of bottom five finishes
8. Point total of bottom five finishes
9. Coin flip (ONLY at the end of the 10th round of voting to determine final standings…prior rounds will simply be tied )

[/ QUOTE ]

Oro... that really sounds like way too much work, truthfully. And that's what you want to do starting in round 3?? I could see something like that should there be a point tie after round 10, but...

[ QUOTE ]
(The purpose of the five point bonuses for a solo first place finisher was to minimize the chances of ties as the game progresses...but i would be OK with a three point bonus for a non-tied second and a non-tied third...but any ties in the top positions get no bonus points)

[/ QUOTE ]

A 5/3/1 can work. I am rather against a solid 6 point difference between first and second, as it makes an attempt to get a few more votes much more lucrative. Oh, and rounding all up can also be done.

A quick question for you on this, should we go ahead with the bonuses, though. What if there's a 2-way tie for 1st, and 3rd places alone? Would 3rd get a bonus, or would the tie for first nullify any bonuses? And would a tie for 2nd also nullify the 1st place bonus? (I'd like to say a tie for either of the first 2 nullifies any bonus. It's also part of the reason why I was wanting to kill the bonuses- too many clauses to define.)

[ QUOTE ]
PS &gt; I have NO interest in playinbg this year, but I WOULD be alright if i was requested to be the offical scorekeeper for the process

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, do you want to keep track of the polls AND PM votes? Ideally, I'd like it to be a mod collecting the PMs, so that things can be tracked if needbe. Or I could collect them and give you raw data if you'd like.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Mimi Masuko said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:(The 2 clauses being 25 posts, or regged for 2 weeks.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Now hold on a second here. I thought Chris set it up so you can't even tell how many posts a user has. Or wait maybe because you are a Mod, you can tell how many posts every one has unlike a regular user. I know people can at least see their own posts. So I know how many I have.

[/ QUOTE ]

We can't. However, I think it's 25 posts when your status changes from 'Newbie' to 'Losing that Newbie Shrine.' That would be the judging status.

[Nosredna]

[ QUOTE ]
TnAdct1 said:
One question that I'd like to ask: will anyone be conducting interviews with the competitors a la last year?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I annoyed too many people last year, especially when I didn't know who half the people drafted were /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif. So if anyone wants my job, they are more than welcome to take it.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
So now all we need is your okay to send our lists, D-kun! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif I'm glad glad you're our mod for this, although (like Wolfy) I would love to have seen what kind of team you would have compiled had you been playing! ^_^

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, since I'm probably going to be dealing with some or all (depending on how things with PW go, I'm expecting I'll prolly just revert to collecting the PMs) of the scoring process, it's only fair that I refrain from playing. In addition, if I collect the PMs, I'm also ineligible to cast a vote via that method, since I will have some information no others will ahead of time.

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:We can't. However, I think it's 25 posts when your status changes from 'Newbie' to 'Losing that Newbie Shrine.' That would be the judging status.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah. *Checks Forums Rules* Yeah it's 25 posts when someone switches over to "Losing that Newbie Shine".

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Mimi Masuko said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:We can't. However, I think it's 25 posts when your status changes from 'Newbie' to 'Losing that Newbie Shrine.' That would be the judging status.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah. *Checks Forums Rules* Yeah it's 25 posts when someone switches over to "Losing that Newbie Shine".

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, I clarified that in the rule post, as well as made the other changes to it. Since the bonus seems to still be in the air, it's not yet included. I've sent a PM off to PW about it, and if nobody else says anything in this thread about the rules, I expect to start accepting PMs late on Friday.

[Mononoke]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]

Okay how about this:
Any/Girl/Girl/Boy/Boy/Girl/Girl/Boy/Boy/Any

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, so we have an order that makes sense; are there any objections? It seems perfectly workable to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I object to that order. It automatically eliminates gender-themed teams such as "all catgirls all the time", "magical girls", "harem kings", "cute mascots", or any number of others one could come up with. No limitations ought be made on gender lines.

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]

Okay how about this:
Any/Girl/Girl/Boy/Boy/Girl/Girl/Boy/Boy/Any

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, so we have an order that makes sense; are there any objections? It seems perfectly workable to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I object to that order. It automatically eliminates gender-themed teams such as "all catgirls all the time", "magical girls", "harem kings", "cute mascots", or any number of others one could come up with. No limitations ought be made on gender lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

The themed round idea has been axed, so if anyone wants to try and make these kinds of themed teams, they are free to do so as long as the team does not violate the series family limits (One character per series family per player and no more than Five characters from that series family may be drafted in the entire draft).

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
I don't see why its so hard to do the oringal pattern any/boy/boy/girl/girl/boy/boy/girl/girl/any I mean going by gender it the broadest catagory and it has plenty of loop holes like mascots, robots, and other gender twisting characters. But okay the only sticking point seems to be the themes. So maybe we should scale it back to say any/any/any/boy/boy/girl/girl/any/any/any.

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
I think I'll just do away with it altogether, since it seems to have a lot of issues. It'll be easier to make it a free-for-all, so that we can have more time to go through the theme idea for next year.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Mimi Masuko said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:We can't. However, I think it's 25 posts when your status changes from 'Newbie' to 'Losing that Newbie Shrine.' That would be the judging status.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah. *Checks Forums Rules* Yeah it's 25 posts when someone switches over to "Losing that Newbie Shine".

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, I clarified that in the rule post, as well as made the other changes to it. Since the bonus seems to still be in the air, it's not yet included. I've sent a PM off to PW about it, and if nobody else says anything in this thread about the rules, I expect to start accepting PMs late on Friday.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might be a good idea to give a 24 hour notice before accepting PMs. I would post it at least a day in advance and give a specific time when it will be open.

As for themes too many problems so its a free for all I guess. I still think that bonuses should be axed as well as it just complicates things as well.

-ape2020

[plaidwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
1. Number of first places won
2. Number of top five finishes
3. Point total of top five finishes
4. Number of top ten finishes
5. Point total of top ten finishes
6. Point total of top 15 finishes
7. Lower number of bottom five finishes
8. Point total of bottom five finishes
9. Coin flip (ONLY at the end of the 10th round of voting to determine final standings…prior rounds will simply be tied )

[/ QUOTE ]

Oro... that really sounds like way too much work, truthfully. And that's what you want to do starting in round 3?? I could see something like that should there be a point tie after round 10, but...

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it isnt all that much work...if you recall, when i proposed my system last time, i did carry it through the last half of the draft (as well as working it backwards through the previous rounds to the start...hence i was able to say that the Wabbit was the winner as his team did consistently well in the draft in all rounds). Once it is going, all it would require is updating, no biggie

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
(The purpose of the five point bonuses for a solo first place finisher was to minimize the chances of ties as the game progresses...but i would be OK with a three point bonus for a non-tied second and a non-tied third...but any ties in the top positions get no bonus points)

[/ QUOTE ]

A 5/3/1 can work. I am rather against a solid 6 point difference between first and second, as it makes an attempt to get a few more votes much more lucrative. Oh, and rounding all up can also be done.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, we can do that. The idea behind the 5 bonus points for a first place finish was to simply reward a good finish...it also helps set up the tie-breakers where we would have to look at number of first place finishes as part of the process

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said: A quick question for you on this, should we go ahead with the bonuses, though. What if there's a 2-way tie for 1st, and 3rd places alone? Would 3rd get a bonus, or would the tie for first nullify any bonuses? And would a tie for 2nd also nullify the 1st place bonus? (I'd like to say a tie for either of the first 2 nullifies any bonus. It's also part of the reason why I was wanting to kill the bonuses- too many clauses to define.)

[/ QUOTE ]

In those cases, no bonus points are awarded to any finisher...bonus points are ONLY for unshared top positions. Hence a two-way tie for first, no bonus points. But the third place finisher gets the 1 bonus point. But if there is a tie for second, the lone 1st place finisher gets the first place bonus, those who tied for second get no bonus points.

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
PS &gt; I have NO interest in playing this year, but I WOULD be alright if i was requested to be the offical scorekeeper for the process

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, do you want to keep track of the polls AND PM votes? Ideally, I'd like it to be a mod collecting the PMs, so that things can be tracked if need be. Or I could collect them and give you raw data if you'd like.

[/ QUOTE ]

That will work. I will be working long hours the next month but i can come in early each morning before i go to work and update as needed...so if you send me the raw polls and vote tallies, i can work with those

Deal?

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
Might be a good idea to give a 24 hour notice before accepting PMs. I would post it at least a day in advance and give a specific time when it will be open.

-ape2020

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt he will give a specific time because then almost everyone will be there waiting to PM him. The time that he has given (late Friday) is the best time that we will get out of him.

[dunno001]

*scans the post*

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
Deal?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure! I'm here late-nights, and with voting times ending at midnight, I can process the PMs and get them off to you for morning. And if you don't mind that type of work, then feel free to go for it.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
Might be a good idea to give a 24 hour notice before accepting PMs. I would post it at least a day in advance and give a specific time when it will be open.

-ape2020

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt he will give a specific time because then almost everyone will be there waiting to PM him. The time that he has given (late Friday) is the best time that we will get out of him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much. Although remember that when I mention time, it's time from MY PERSPECTIVE. So it may still be mid-Friday on the west coast USA, and it might be encroaching on Saturday morning in Europe. I will give another hint, though- I don't want to keep people in England up until 3 AM... so I won't.

Oh, wait... today's Friday, isn't it? Hmm...

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Pretty much. Although remember that when I mention time, it's time from MY PERSPECTIVE. So it may still be mid-Friday on the west coast USA, and it might be encroaching on Saturday morning in Europe. I will give another hint, though- I don't want to keep people in England up until 3 AM... so I won't.

Oh, wait... today's Friday, isn't it? Hmm...

[/ QUOTE ]

*is eagerly waiting for the green light*

[DiGiKerot]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Pretty much. Although remember that when I mention time, it's time from MY PERSPECTIVE. So it may still be mid-Friday on the west coast USA, and it might be encroaching on Saturday morning in Europe. I will give another hint, though- I don't want to keep people in England up until 3 AM... so I won't.

Oh, wait... today's Friday, isn't it? Hmm...

[/ QUOTE ]

*is eagerly waiting for the green light*

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he was lying and IS planning on keeping us in England up until 3 AM /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
DiGiKerot said:
[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Pretty much. Although remember that when I mention time, it's time from MY PERSPECTIVE. So it may still be mid-Friday on the west coast USA, and it might be encroaching on Saturday morning in Europe. I will give another hint, though- I don't want to keep people in England up until 3 AM... so I won't.

Oh, wait... today's Friday, isn't it? Hmm...

[/ QUOTE ]

*is eagerly waiting for the green light*

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he was lying and IS planning on keeping us in England up until 3 AM /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't it only something like 8:30 PM there right now?

[DiGiKerot]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
DiGiKerot said:
I think he was lying and IS planning on keeping us in England up until 3 AM /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't it only something like 8:30 PM there right now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm just being silly /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif

Whilst I'm posting, though, how exactly is the green light being given? Do I need to look out for a new thread popping up, or is one of the existing AD threads going to be updated/added to?

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
DiGiKerot said:
[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Pretty much. Although remember that when I mention time, it's time from MY PERSPECTIVE. So it may still be mid-Friday on the west coast USA, and it might be encroaching on Saturday morning in Europe. I will give another hint, though- I don't want to keep people in England up until 3 AM... so I won't.

Oh, wait... today's Friday, isn't it? Hmm...

[/ QUOTE ]

*is eagerly waiting for the green light*

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he was lying and IS planning on keeping us in England up until 3 AM /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't it only something like 8:30 PM there right now?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're hanging around here to drive us insane with anticipation, aren't you? /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif *tries to bribe D-kun with various Shuichi goodies*

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
DiGiKerot said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
DiGiKerot said:
I think he was lying and IS planning on keeping us in England up until 3 AM /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't it only something like 8:30 PM there right now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm just being silly /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif

Whilst I'm posting, though, how exactly is the green light being given? Do I need to look out for a new thread popping up, or is one of the existing AD threads going to be updated/added to?

[/ QUOTE ]

We're suppose to check the sign up thread for when to go. *waits ever-so patiently*

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
DiGiKerot said:
[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Pretty much. Although remember that when I mention time, it's time from MY PERSPECTIVE. So it may still be mid-Friday on the west coast USA, and it might be encroaching on Saturday morning in Europe. I will give another hint, though- I don't want to keep people in England up until 3 AM... so I won't.

Oh, wait... today's Friday, isn't it? Hmm...

[/ QUOTE ]

*is eagerly waiting for the green light*

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he was lying and IS planning on keeping us in England up until 3 AM /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't it only something like 8:30 PM there right now?

[/ QUOTE ]

You're hanging around here to drive us insane with anticipation, aren't you? /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif *tries to bribe D-kun with various Shuichi goodies*

[/ QUOTE ]

*raises hands and laughs like a mad scientist* (You know, I really should make a video of that sometime, also...)

Anyway, to answer the question, I will post in the other thread, and change the subject when I specify the exact time.

[AnnaSartin]

*pictures D-kun as Watari or Muraki* Scary...

Are the characters we picked going to remain secret to the voters during the fast polls?

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
*pictures D-kun as Watari or Muraki* Scary...

Are the characters we picked going to remain secret to the voters during the fast polls?

[/ QUOTE ]

The characters will be revealed before the fast polls start. All lists must be in to me before the end of Monday (That is decided, and honors the 72 hour clause in the rules,), and I'll post the lists sometime on Tuesday. I would expect fast draft 1 to start on Thursday, and that's when the groups will be announced. (So you won't know who's up against who for the fast draft until it comes...)

[AnnaSartin]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
*pictures D-kun as Watari or Muraki* Scary...

Are the characters we picked going to remain secret to the voters during the fast polls?

[/ QUOTE ]

The characters will be revealed before the fast polls start. All lists must be in to me before the end of Monday (That is decided, and honors the 72 hour clause in the rules,), and I'll post the lists sometime on Tuesday. I would expect fast draft 1 to start on Thursday, and that's when the groups will be announced. (So you won't know who's up against who for the fast draft until it comes...)

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes it more exciting! /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif *has hijacked her mother's PC and is on the edge of her seat waiting*

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Anna Sartin said:
*pictures D-kun as Watari or Muraki* Scary...

Are the characters we picked going to remain secret to the voters during the fast polls?

[/ QUOTE ]

The characters will be revealed before the fast polls start. All lists must be in to me before the end of Monday (That is decided, and honors the 72 hour clause in the rules,), and I'll post the lists sometime on Tuesday. I would expect fast draft 1 to start on Thursday, and that's when the groups will be announced. (So you won't know who's up against who for the fast draft until it comes...)

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes it more exciting! /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif *has hijacked her mother's PC and is on the edge of her seat waiting*

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you can give it back to her for an hour or 2... I'm off to do some quick product setup at work. Look for some news when I get back! ^_^

[AnnaSartin]

Yay!!! /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif *goes to take a break*

[excel7769]

Just a quick clarification question, when the PM'ing begins, are there any guidelines that we need to follow when assembling teams? (For example, number of characters, types of characters, show limits for characters, things like that) Just need to know, before assembling the list. Also as it appears that there are more than 20 people interested in this, how will the qualification work?

[AnnaSartin]

*is back and has resumed waiting on the edge of her seat* /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
excel7769 said:
Just a quick clarification question, when the PM'ing begins, are there any guidelines that we need to follow when assembling teams? (For example, number of characters, types of characters, show limits for characters, things like that) Just need to know, before assembling the list. Also as it appears that there are more than 20 people interested in this, how will the qualification work?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, of the list that you send me, there really are no rules. In fact, I just decided as a last minute that should more than 5 characters from a series be picked IN THE FIRST ROUND, then an exception will be made for that round. (However, that series will then be locked out for the rest of the game...) If you would like to do a team concept, though, do note that if you get in the top 20 for the fast drafts, there will be 10 rounds. (Rules for determining the top 20 are already defined; if you need a clarification, feel free to ask.) Of those 10 characters you pick, they must be from different universes. (Such that you can't pick Subaru from X, then Seishirou from Tokyo Babylon.) Also, if 5 characters are already chosen from a universe across the game, then that universe is closed to further drafts.

[Narob]

Trying to make sense of nearly 200 posts, I kinda got lost. So what is it exactly that is to be PMed to you, dunno?

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Narob said:
Trying to make sense of nearly 200 posts, I kinda got lost. So what is it exactly that is to be PMed to you, dunno?

[/ QUOTE ]

The ONLY thing that needs to be PMed to me is a list of the characters that you want to use for round 1, in order of preference. After I send you a confirmation of which character will be your pick for round 1, you will be all set. Rounds 2+ will be done on the forums, and you may choose a character that was in that list but has not yet been drafted. (NOBODY else has access to the list of characters that you choose.) It is advantageous to send a large list, in case your first few picks are already taken.

Now, let me go make my template for this...

[rainking187]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:Of those 10 characters you pick, they must be from different universes. (Such that you can't pick Subaru from X, then Seishirou from Tokyo Babylon.) Also, if 5 characters are already chosen from a universe across the game, then that universe is closed to further drafts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this one. I hadn't heard that one on here before. I think the rules need some slimming down, too many restrictions and the fun's going to get sucked out of this thing. All the restrictions, and I think people are going to lose sight of the fact that it's just a game that's meant for fun. I personally don't see why there should be limits to series and worlds, if someone wants to make a team featuring characters from one series, what's the big deal? You only have to worry about competition before the game starts, just to make sure you get in. After that, relax and have fun. You want to make a team from your favorite characters? Cool. You want to pick characters you think are popular so you can win? That's alright too. People forgot it was just a game last year too, and look where that got us.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
rainking187 said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:Of those 10 characters you pick, they must be from different universes. (Such that you can't pick Subaru from X, then Seishirou from Tokyo Babylon.) Also, if 5 characters are already chosen from a universe across the game, then that universe is closed to further drafts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this one. I hadn't heard that one on here before. I think the rules need some slimming down, too many restrictions and the fun's going to get sucked out of this thing. All the restrictions, and I think people are going to lose sight of the fact that it's just a game that's meant for fun. I personally don't see why there should be limits to series and worlds, if someone wants to make a team featuring characters from one series, what's the big deal? You only have to worry about competition before the game starts, just to make sure you get in. After that, relax and have fun. You want to make a team from your favorite characters? Cool. You want to pick characters you think are popular so you can win? That's alright too. People forgot it was just a game last year too, and look where that got us.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, this is meant to be a game of characters against each other, not series. That's why there's a universe limit. Otherwise, what's to stop, say, an FMA fan from just voting that across the board because it's their favorite series, rather than looking at the characters involved? That was set a while ago, actually. I initially proposed a lower game limit, but that was raised.

[rainking187]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:Otherwise, what's to stop, say, an FMA fan from just voting that across the board because it's their favorite series, rather than looking at the characters involved?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why stop them? That's what they want to do, let 'em do it.

[Mononoke]

One more rule / bonus suggestion:

How about a bonus point or two for people who make their picks within a few hours of when their 24 hour window started? Last year it was a problem when some folks made their choice -- repeatedly -- at 23.5 hours, just on the line. That slowed the game down unnecessarily, and I'd like to avoid it this year.

Granted, everyone would still have their 24 hour window, but those who waited would pay a price by not getting the bonus. Then its up to each individual which they'd rather have - the chance to throw people off due to time, or to get more points for their team.

How would this work within the scoring system? Once we decide on a scoring system in the first place, we can answer that question.

[Victor Lewandowski]

[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
One more rule / bonus suggestion:

How about a bonus point or two for people who make their picks within a few hours of when their 24 hour window started? Last year it was a problem when some folks made their choice -- repeatedly -- at 23.5 hours, just on the line. That slowed the game down unnecessarily, and I'd like to avoid it this year.

Granted, everyone would still have their 24 hour window, but those who waited would pay a price by not getting the bonus. Then its up to each individual which they'd rather have - the chance to throw people off due to time, or to get more points for their team.

How would this work within the scoring system? Once we decide on a scoring system in the first place, we can answer that question.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they did that, I would go for this method to be applied to a player's final score at the end of the draft.
<ul type="square">
Two bonus points for each pick made within the first 30 minutes of their 24 hour window starting
One bonus point for each pick made between 30 minutes and two hours of their 24 hour window starting
One penalty point deducted from the player's final score for each pick made with less than two hours remaining in their window
Two penalty points deducted from the player's final score for each pick made in the final 30 minutes of their window [/list]

[Nuriko]

[ QUOTE ]
Victor Lewandowski said:
[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
One more rule / bonus suggestion:

How about a bonus point or two for people who make their picks within a few hours of when their 24 hour window started? Last year it was a problem when some folks made their choice -- repeatedly -- at 23.5 hours, just on the line. That slowed the game down unnecessarily, and I'd like to avoid it this year.

Granted, everyone would still have their 24 hour window, but those who waited would pay a price by not getting the bonus. Then its up to each individual which they'd rather have - the chance to throw people off due to time, or to get more points for their team.

How would this work within the scoring system? Once we decide on a scoring system in the first place, we can answer that question.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they did that, I would go for this method to be applied to a player's final score at the end of the draft.
<ul type="square">
Two bonus points for each pick made within the first 30 minutes of their 24 hour window starting
One bonus point for each pick made between 30 minutes and two hours of their 24 hour window starting
One penalty point deducted from the player's final score for each pick made with less than two hours remaining in their window
Two penalty points deducted from the player's final score for each pick made in the final 30 minutes of their window [/list]

[/ QUOTE ]

By doing that, I think it defeats the purpose of having a 24hr deadline. The purpose is to give those who might not be here when it is their turn. For example, if someone makes a pick at 3AM, you wouldn't expect the next person to make a pick right away. In fact, the next person will wake up and go to work the following day and might not even have access to AOD until he/she gets off, which is already 12+ hours difference. Is it his/her fault? No, therefore I disagree with the bonus and penalty system. It only benefits those who live in AOD, lol.

The draft is design to accomodate all members involved, and not for a speedy turnover, thus ending the game in a matter of days. Part of the fun and anticipation is the waiting part. Who knows, everyone might respond one after another, but that is not a guaranttee as we've seen in the past. There might be a few consecutive votes but that is not the norm.

Plus, even if you have already outlined who your 10 characters will be, things change due to who is being drafted, or that one or more of your characters are chosen or not available anymore, which can delay anyone more than 30 minutes to fill the hole and adjust their strategy.

[Nuriko]

Another possible solution is to reduce the 24hr clock if everyone is so impatient, including myself, lol. Maybe amend from 24 to 18 or 12 hours? And if you feel that you will miss the deadline, you can always pm your choice to Dunno if he is willing to take this route.

Still, in the end 24 hours offers enough time for someone to adequately pick. While there might be one or two that actually uses the full 24 hr window, that is few and far inbetween. As witnessed in the pass 2 drafts, most rounds are completed in a matter of 2-3 days, therefore the average time is really about 4 hours per person for 20 people.

[Mononoke]

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
By doing that, I think it defeats the purpose of having a 24hr deadline. The purpose is to give those who might not be here when it is their turn. For example, if someone makes a pick at 3AM, you wouldn't expect the next person to make a pick right away. In fact, the next person will wake up and go to work the following day and might not even have access to AOD until he/she gets off, which is already 12+ hours difference. Is it his/her fault? No, therefore I disagree with the bonus and penalty system. It only benefits those who live in AOD, lol.

[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree that it benefits only those who live on AoD. Incentives for not procrastinating will benefit everyone playing the game by keeping things moving at a decent pace. That's important so that the game doesn't take 4 months to complete as happened last year. That's an awful long time to be hanging around the forums each and every day with no breaks. The draft won't be over in a few days, but neither should it take 4-5 months from start to finish.

Under Victor's proposed scheme (which I liked), most people would get neither a bonus nor a penalty. It would reward those who were very fast, do nothing to most people, and penalize those who were very slow. In the end, you might have a couple bonus rounds, a couple slow rounds, and a lot of neutral rounds. In the end for most people it would be a wash. What this prevents is people deliberately waiting until the deadline on most of their picks. The person directly in front of me last year did this, and it was frustrating to never know whether they were going to wait 12 hours or 24 hours. That person was online posting on the forums during their timeframe, so the waiting until the last second was deliberate. I want to discourage that behavior. It's just unnecessary.

[DiGiKerot]

[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
Under Victor's proposed scheme (which I liked), most people would get neither a bonus nor a penalty. It would reward those who were very fast, do nothing to most people, and penalize those who were very slow. In the end, you might have a couple bonus rounds, a couple slow rounds, and a lot of neutral rounds. In the end for most people it would be a wash. What this prevents is people deliberately waiting until the deadline on most of their picks. The person directly in front of me last year did this, and it was frustrating to never know whether they were going to wait 12 hours or 24 hours. That person was online posting on the forums during their timeframe, so the waiting until the last second was deliberate. I want to discourage that behavior. It's just unnecessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't really take into account people living in different timezones fairly, though. Yeah, its annoying have to wait for someone to use the whole 24 hours, but from my point of view it'd be even more annoying to miss out on the bonus points due to most of the forum activity occuring either when I'm asleep or at work. To be honest, I think the whole system proposed is too open to some unfair tactical abuse anyway.

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
DiGiKerot said:
[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
Under Victor's proposed scheme (which I liked), most people would get neither a bonus nor a penalty. It would reward those who were very fast, do nothing to most people, and penalize those who were very slow. In the end, you might have a couple bonus rounds, a couple slow rounds, and a lot of neutral rounds. In the end for most people it would be a wash. What this prevents is people deliberately waiting until the deadline on most of their picks. The person directly in front of me last year did this, and it was frustrating to never know whether they were going to wait 12 hours or 24 hours. That person was online posting on the forums during their timeframe, so the waiting until the last second was deliberate. I want to discourage that behavior. It's just unnecessary.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't really take into account people living in different timezones fairly, though. Yeah, its annoying have to wait for someone to use the whole 24 hours, but from my point of view it'd be even more annoying to miss out on the bonus points due to most of the forum activity occuring either when I'm asleep or at work. To be honest, I think the whole system proposed is too open to some unfair tactical abuse anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would hate penalize people for living their lives and not being on 24hr call for the draft. So I would be very much against this and I was one of the fastest drafters last year.

-ape2020

[Mononoke]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
I would hate penalize people for living their lives and not being on 24hr call for the draft. So I would be very much against this and I was one of the fastest drafters last year.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, then perhaps we haven't hit on the right solution yet. Maybe there should be no bonus, but just a penalty for being consistently slow. I don't mind someone using all 24 hours once in a while, because accounting for real life is what the large window is there for.

However... What would you suggest to discourage people from consistently using all 24 hours on purpose? "consistently" and "on purpose" being the key words.

[ape2020]

[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
I would hate penalize people for living their lives and not being on 24hr call for the draft. So I would be very much against this and I was one of the fastest drafters last year.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, then perhaps we haven't hit on the right solution yet. Maybe there should be no bonus, but just a penalty for being consistently slow. I don't mind someone using all 24 hours once in a while, because accounting for real life is what the large window is there for.

However... What would you suggest to discourage people from consistently using all 24 hours on purpose? "consistently" and "on purpose" being the key words.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing really. I mean we gave them 24 hours so if they want to use it well thats the way the rules are set up. If they always run close to 24hrs then they most likely will run over it and then lose their place in line or worst. The drafting period wasn't really all that bad last year and no one really stalled. There were certain time when player would be online and so the drafting would slow, but it was rather predictable. I think your seeing a problem that is not really there.

-ape2020

[Nuriko]

[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
I would hate penalize people for living their lives and not being on 24hr call for the draft. So I would be very much against this and I was one of the fastest drafters last year.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, then perhaps we haven't hit on the right solution yet. Maybe there should be no bonus, but just a penalty for being consistently slow. I don't mind someone using all 24 hours once in a while, because accounting for real life is what the large window is there for.

However... What would you suggest to discourage people from consistently using all 24 hours on purpose? "consistently" and "on purpose" being the key words.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing really. I mean we gave them 24 hours so if they want to use it well thats the way the rules are set up. If they always run close to 24hrs then they most likely will run over it and then lose their place in line or worst. The drafting period wasn't really all that bad last year and no one really stalled. There were certain time when player would be online and so the drafting would slow, but it was rather predictable. I think your seeing a problem that is not really there.

-ape2020

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just throwing ideas out, how about if a player miss a turn, they lose that entry spot. For example, in round 3, for whatever reason, I missed the 24hr deadline, I can't choose a character for that round anymore, meaning I get zero points.

or reduce it from 24 hours to 18 hours which I think is just as adequate if no one objects.

For those who like to utilize the full time given, you just can't blame them. They followed the rules, its just part of the game.

[AnnaSartin]

I think we should stick with the 24 hour rule. We live in different time zones and some of us don't have our own computers.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ape2020 said:
I would hate penalize people for living their lives and not being on 24hr call for the draft. So I would be very much against this and I was one of the fastest drafters last year.

[/ QUOTE ]
Okay, then perhaps we haven't hit on the right solution yet. Maybe there should be no bonus, but just a penalty for being consistently slow. I don't mind someone using all 24 hours once in a while, because accounting for real life is what the large window is there for.

However... What would you suggest to discourage people from consistently using all 24 hours on purpose? "consistently" and "on purpose" being the key words.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing really. I mean we gave them 24 hours so if they want to use it well thats the way the rules are set up. If they always run close to 24hrs then they most likely will run over it and then lose their place in line or worst. The drafting period wasn't really all that bad last year and no one really stalled. There were certain time when player would be online and so the drafting would slow, but it was rather predictable. I think your seeing a problem that is not really there.

-ape2020

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just throwing ideas out, how about if a player miss a turn, they lose that entry spot. For example, in round 3, for whatever reason, I missed the 24hr deadline, I can't choose a character for that round anymore, meaning I get zero points.

or reduce it from 24 hours to 18 hours which I think is just as adequate if no one objects.

For those who like to utilize the full time given, you just can't blame them. They followed the rules, its just part of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to keep the 24 hours. Suppose you vote on the east coast at 7 PM. It's midnight in Europe at the time you vote, and the next person may be sleeping because they have to work 9-5 the coming day. When you get up, the first thing on your mind shouldn't be checking AoD, and you then head off to work. You come home and have dinner, and suddenly it's 6 PM in England, and they've missed the 18 hour window. So I will not be changing that.

Unfortunately, the rules were to be solidified by this point already, so there will not be a penalty clause added to people who take their time. Maybe after this year, one can be negotiated with everyone, and I would actually propose that it's based on total time among all the rounds, and not per round, so that an occasional late round doesn't penalize, since you DO have a life (I hope?), but it will quickly get the ones that do intentionally delay. There are a total of 216 hours that can be spent waiting to draft; I would suggest no penalty at all until 162 hours. (It would factor in those 18-hour times.) However, like I already said, it won't happen this year.

[Mononoke]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Unfortunately, the rules were to be solidified by this point already, so there will not be a penalty clause added to people who take their time. Maybe after this year, one can be negotiated with everyone, and I would actually propose that it's based on total time among all the rounds, and not per round, so that an occasional late round doesn't penalize, since you DO have a life (I hope?), but it will quickly get the ones that do intentionally delay.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's another good idea, and it looks like it's one we'll consider for 2007. Thanks for the discussion, guys.

So, Dunno, if the rules are finalized for this year, can you post a complete list in one single post so we all know exactly how things are to be run? It'd be great to have a summary in one place.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
So, Dunno, if the rules are finalized for this year, can you post a complete list in one single post so we all know exactly how things are to be run? It'd be great to have a summary in one place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep. It's right here (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1234466&amp;page=0&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=2&amp;vc=1). I added the clause about the bonus points, since that was already agreed on. If something needs clarification, I'll clarify it.

(And I see that we broke threaded mode. We rock!)

[Mononoke]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Yep. It's right here (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1234466&amp;page=0&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=2&amp;vc=1). I added the clause about the bonus points, since that was already agreed on. If something needs clarification, I'll clarify it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, dunno001. That was just what I was hoping for.

In order to be sure I understood them, I wrote the rules in my own words and posted them on the 2006 Draft Board. I think I got most of it right, but I'm a little unsure about the Tie Breakers for the Fast Polls. Could you check the Rules Page (http://home.earthlink.net/~lamhirhofthestars/ad2006/rules.html) to be sure the tie breaker procedures are correct?

Plaid Wolf, if you're around, could you double check the examples I made on the scoring system (http://home.earthlink.net/~lamhirhofthestars/ad2006/scoring.html) to be sure they are correct also? Thanks guys.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Yep. It's right here (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1234466&amp;page=0&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=2&amp;vc=1). I added the clause about the bonus points, since that was already agreed on. If something needs clarification, I'll clarify it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, dunno001. That was just what I was hoping for.

In order to be sure I understood them, I wrote the rules in my own words and posted them on the 2006 Draft Board. I think I got most of it right, but I'm a little unsure about the Tie Breakers for the Fast Polls. Could you check the Rules Page (http://home.earthlink.net/~lamhirhofthestars/ad2006/rules.html) to be sure the tie breaker procedures are correct?

Plaid Wolf, if you're around, could you double check the examples I made on the scoring system (http://home.earthlink.net/~lamhirhofthestars/ad2006/scoring.html) to be sure they are correct also? Thanks guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

It all looks good to me. (Well, aside from the typo in 'shrine'... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

[Mononoke]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
It all looks good to me. (Well, aside from the typo in 'shrine'... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

[/ QUOTE ]
Great, then it sounds like we're good to go.

But.. *gasp*.. where's the typo? I'd correct it, except I can't find it /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif.

[dunno001]

[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
It all looks good to me. (Well, aside from the typo in 'shrine'... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

[/ QUOTE ]
Great, then it sounds like we're good to go.

But.. *gasp*.. where's the typo? I'd correct it, except I can't find it /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eligibility of PM votes.

[Mononoke]

[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Eligibility of PM votes.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, you mean the Losing that Newbie Shine title? It is Shine, isn't it? Like, "not quite so shiny and new anymore"...

[plaidwolf]

[ QUOTE ]
Lamhirh of the Stars said:
[ QUOTE ]
dunno001 said:
Yep. It's right here (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1234466&amp;page=0&amp;view=c ollapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=2&amp;vc=1). I added the clause about the bonus points, since that was already agreed on. If something needs clarification, I'll clarify it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks, dunno001. That was just what I was hoping for.

In order to be sure I understood them, I wrote the rules in my own words and posted them on the 2006 Draft Board. I think I got most of it right, but I'm a little unsure about the Tie Breakers for the Fast Polls. Could you check the Rules Page (http://home.earthlink.net/~lamhirhofthestars/ad2006/rules.html) to be sure the tie breaker procedures are correct?

Plaid Wolf, if you're around, could you double check the examples I made on the scoring system (http://home.earthlink.net/~lamhirhofthestars/ad2006/scoring.html) to be sure they are correct also? Thanks guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

I looked at it and PMed you....