Gunslinger Girl [Archive]

frank55025

01-05-2006, 04:06 AM

I just finished watching Gunslinger Girl and feel like they left a lot unanswered. over all I though it was a pretty good show but the ending felt rushed and it seems they could have add a lot. Did I miss something? Or do you feel the same? what did you think of the show?

vtr9kvictor

01-05-2006, 04:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
evadude said:
I just finished watching Gunslinger Girl and feel like they left a lot unanswered. over all I though it was a pretty good show but the ending felt rushed and it seems they could have add a lot. Did I miss something? Or do you feel the same? what did you think of the show?

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you watch the final episode after the credits? You might have missed the most horrific thing - namely that the project continues on despite its many failures . I did not feel it was rushed, I was quite ready for it to be over, I mean, it was just so brutal to watch. When the end finally came I was relieved. None of that is to say I thought it was a bad series. I thought it was incredible, but it was just SO DARK I don't think I could have taken any more.

TalonG4

01-05-2006, 06:39 AM

I thought it was one of the best shows of the year and it was also a show that I almost didn't give a thought of buying until I saw the packaging with the box with first disc. The box was so beautiful, I just had to pick it up.(Packaging DOES matter!)
I didn't really think it was THAT brutal to be honest, I saw it from the point of view that these girls, while being made into killers, got a second chance to live life and some were lucky to have a little happiness along the way. Considering that all they had to look forward to before the agency got a hold of them was pain and death, I guess I see it as a little life affirming. (Even if their borrowed time was short, much like the length of the show)
Did I think it was too short? No. We all know by the end of the show what's going to happen to these girls, anything else would have dragged on the inevitable IMO.

The Pirate Queen

01-05-2006, 07:02 AM

I thought the ending was perfect. This wasn't really meant to be a story with a true beginning and a true end, it was a snapshot, a brief glimpse into the lives of these girls.

Collectonian

01-05-2006, 09:11 AM

Personally, I LOVE Gunslinger Girl. All around good. I didn't think the ending felt rushed, though there is stuff I wish they had included (the anime focused more on Henrietta than the manga does, I believe). However I'm glad the manga has additional stories and is still on going. It will be interesting to see if it will have a more definitive ending.

If you felt you missed something or just want more, definately grab the manga too. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

balthier2012

01-05-2006, 09:53 AM

I marathoned this show December 31 and I actually liked it despite the doubt I had for it. I didn't feel the ending was rushed at all. And I felt there was plenty of information. Hmm, EVAdude other shows have had worse / weirder endings.

What things do you think they left unanswered or should have answered?

chloes_fork

01-05-2006, 10:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Balthier said:
I marathoned this show December 31 and I actually liked it despite the doubt I had for it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, glad to hear it. (I was one of those pushing the show in your recommendations thread a while back.)

To the OP, I thought the ending of the series was perfectly appropriate and in keeping with the approach throughout. It was never a plot-driven show. The conclusion was subdued, beautiful, and sorrowful, like everything that had gone before. I don't know how it could have been a lot better.

frank55025

01-05-2006, 05:12 PM

I just feel that they could have done alot more and it just felt that it ended too suddenly. I also feel that they could gone deeper into the characters

Collectonian

01-05-2006, 05:17 PM

Yep, you need to read the manga if you aren't already. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif In the first 3 volumes it has gone way more into the handlers and into Triella than the anime did.

XenoSaber

01-05-2006, 11:12 PM

There is a bit more story in the manga if you want to check that out. There was an ongoing question on another board that I would like to put to you guys though.

 Did Angelica die at the end or not? 

On the other board there was contention over this.

yumy

01-05-2006, 11:38 PM

ya i thought it was better than Noir and Madlax. The only thing that bugged me is the fights seemed a little unrealistic half the time, which i know is very common in fighting animes or shows of any sort. I just remember one scene where she's standing on the wall, totally exposed, and the enemy just sits there and doesn't fire back at her for like 20 seconds while he had easy kill...

Very good series tho, pretty good characters, there weren't totally deep, but interesting enough for a 13 ep series

TalonG4

01-06-2006, 06:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
XenoSaber said:
There is a bit more story in the manga if you want to check that out. There was an ongoing question on another board that I would like to put to you guys though.

 Did Angelica die at the end or not? 

On the other board there was contention over this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well....yeah.
What was the argument otherwise?

XenoSaber

01-06-2006, 06:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
TalonG4 said:
[ QUOTE ]
XenoSaber said:
There is a bit more story in the manga if you want to check that out. There was an ongoing question on another board that I would like to put to you guys though.

 Did Angelica die at the end or not? 

On the other board there was contention over this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well....yeah.
What was the argument otherwise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some people seemed to be quite sure that she could have just "Fallen Asleep" . I never agreed though.

The Pirate Queen

01-06-2006, 06:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
XenoSaber said:
[ QUOTE ]
TalonG4 said:
[ QUOTE ]
XenoSaber said:
There is a bit more story in the manga if you want to check that out. There was an ongoing question on another board that I would like to put to you guys though.

 Did Angelica die at the end or not? 

On the other board there was contention over this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well....yeah.
What was the argument otherwise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some people seemed to be quite sure that she could have just "Fallen Asleep" . I never agreed though.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that would violate the entire premise of the show!

TalonG4

01-06-2006, 07:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Dani said:
[ QUOTE ]
XenoSaber said:
[ QUOTE ]
TalonG4 said:
[ QUOTE ]
XenoSaber said:
There is a bit more story in the manga if you want to check that out. There was an ongoing question on another board that I would like to put to you guys though.

 Did Angelica die at the end or not? 

On the other board there was contention over this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well....yeah.
What was the argument otherwise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some people seemed to be quite sure that she could have just "Fallen Asleep" . I never agreed though.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that would violate the entire premise of the show!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. That would be a major slap in the face to the viewer if that were true. (which I don't believe)
More than likely, this was a lie concocted by someone who couldn't handle the fact that a little girl actually DIED. /images/graemlins/icon_rolleyes.gif

Collectonian

01-06-2006, 10:50 AM

01-06-2006, 11:12 AM

I remember when this show hit the air in Japan all the fans were screaming "hack anime!" and talking about how it was nothing but fetish fodder. I doubt any of those people actually watched more than the first episode.

It's nice to see that the show is finding the audience it deserves now and people are discovering how much depth the show really had. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

chloes_fork

01-06-2006, 12:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
XenoSaber said:
[ QUOTE ]
TalonG4 said:
[ QUOTE ]
XenoSaber said:
There is a bit more story in the manga if you want to check that out. There was an ongoing question on another board that I would like to put to you guys though.

 Did Angelica die at the end or not? 

On the other board there was contention over this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well....yeah.
What was the argument otherwise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Some people seemed to be quite sure that she could have just "Fallen Asleep" . I never agreed though.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry, but this is a case of either (a) just not liking the ending so making up one you like better, or (b) being too bone-stick-stone stupid to understand even the plainest event in its narrative context.

SnowfairyX

01-06-2006, 01:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Xcalibur said:
I remember when this show hit the air in Japan all the fans were screaming "hack anime!" and talking about how it was nothing but fetish fodder. I doubt any of those people actually watched more than the first episode.

It's nice to see that the show is finding the audience it deserves now and people are discovering how much depth the show really had. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought the same way too the first time I heard of the anime/manga and thought it was just pretty much just "lolis with guns" which does not interest me because it seemed like it would just rely on that concept as a gimmick rather than have any great substance. Then I heard of all the good things that people have said of the series and when Funi decided to release the series on 3 dvds instead of 4, it seemed like a pretty worthy purchase.

After watching 6 or 7 episodes, I still don't know what the big deal about the series is. It's nice and relaxing to watch and the music and sound effects dealing with the weapons sound very nice, but there just seems to be absolutely no story and the characters don't seem all that great or interesting. There really isn't anything that has me compelled to finish the series up to what I've watched besides completion's sake and seeing if it gets significantly better.

So far, I almost feel like I've wasted my time since the anime doesn't seem to be going anywhere with any kind of story. The anime is good, but I don't feel that the episodes that I've watched so far are really appropriate for a 13-episode series. They just seem like stand-alone or filler episodes to me that would probably be a lot more appropriate for at least a 26-episode series. I'll get back to finishing the series eventually, but at the current rate that it's going, I don't think that it's going to end up as one of my favorites.

chloes_fork

01-06-2006, 02:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
SnowfairyX said:
So far, I almost feel like I've wasted my time since the anime doesn't seem to be going anywhere with any kind of story.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just so you know, that doesn't change. And in fact, yours is the most common complaint I've seen about Gunslinger Girl: that it doesn't "go anywhere." For some viewers, it seems Plot-with-a-capital-P is absolutely necessary to their enjoyment of a series.

That's not this show. GG is about beautifully observed moments of character and emotion, nuance and atmosphere, in the improbable context of a story about loli cyborg assassins. It's a tone poem, not a pageturner. It's fair enough if that doesn't work for you, but it's no fault of the series that it accomplishes exactly what it's designed to do, and does so exquisitely.

XenoSaber

01-07-2006, 09:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Collectonian said:
[ QUOTE ]
XenoSaber said:
There is a bit more story in the manga if you want to check that out. There was an ongoing question on another board that I would like to put to you guys though.

 Did Angelica die at the end or not? 

On the other board there was contention over this.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the anime, I say yes, she did. In the manga, she didn't so maybe thats why there is confusion? 

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess it's possible. I've read 3 vols of the manga, how many were there? I seem to remeber there being 5 or 6? but yeah I felt she did too.

XenoSaber

01-07-2006, 09:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
chloes_fork said:
[ QUOTE ]
SnowfairyX said:
So far, I almost feel like I've wasted my time since the anime doesn't seem to be going anywhere with any kind of story.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just so you know, that doesn't change. And in fact, yours is the most common complaint I've seen about Gunslinger Girl: that it doesn't "go anywhere." For some viewers, it seems Plot-with-a-capital-P is absolutely necessary to their enjoyment of a series.

That's not this show. GG is about beautifully observed moments of character and emotion, nuance and atmosphere, in the improbable context of a story about loli cyborg assassins. It's a tone poem, not a pageturner. It's fair enough if that doesn't work for you, but it's no fault of the series that it accomplishes exactly what it's designed to do, and does so exquisitely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it would have been better if they used more of the manga to make it longer. There was more story there that could have been used.

SnowfairyX

01-07-2006, 10:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
chloes_fork said:
[ QUOTE ]
SnowfairyX said:
So far, I almost feel like I've wasted my time since the anime doesn't seem to be going anywhere with any kind of story.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just so you know, that doesn't change. And in fact, yours is the most common complaint I've seen about Gunslinger Girl: that it doesn't "go anywhere." For some viewers, it seems Plot-with-a-capital-P is absolutely necessary to their enjoyment of a series.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually the vast majority of anime that I enjoy have little to no plot at all, otherwise Azumanga Daioh would not currently be my favorite anime /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif. I prefer anime that are character based and don't care much about action or much of any story or plot as long as the characters are decent. From what I've heard of Gunslinger Girl, it seemed like an anime series that I would enjoy a great deal because it supposedly had great characters or character interaction. But so far, the only thing I feel for the characters is pity, and that's only from the obvious manipulation that this anime uses even though it isn't necessarily over-the-top. I think the word pretentious is the proper word for how I would describe this anime so far, but it's still a decent watch.

chloes_fork

01-07-2006, 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
SnowfairyX said:
Actually the vast majority of anime that I enjoy have little to no plot at all, otherwise Azumanga Daioh would not currently be my favorite anime /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif. I prefer anime that are character based and don't care much about action or much of any story or plot as long as the characters are decent.

[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough, though you might understand my confusion when you said you felt GG was a waste of time because it wasn't "going anywhere with any kind of story."

[ QUOTE ]
From what I've heard of Gunslinger Girl, it seemed like an anime series that I would enjoy a great deal because it supposedly had great characters or character interaction. But so far, the only thing I feel for the characters is pity, and that's only from the obvious manipulation that this anime uses even though it isn't necessarily over-the-top.

[/ QUOTE ]
Personally, I find the characters -- particularly Henrietta and Jose, and their relationship -- very well realized, though again, those characterizations are constructed quietly and from small moments. But if the series doesn't work for you, it doesn't work.

DKL

01-07-2006, 12:39 PM

I thought that Elfen Lied used a lot of forced manipulation, but it floated with me just fine since I liked the devices used in order to bribe me (cute girls + fan-service + violence = awesome). Gunslinger Girl sort of does the same (cute girls + guns + violence = awesome) but manages to take a more subtle approach that doesnâ€™t lose its graphic edge after multiple viewings.

Anyway, I really liked the series too... I walked into Best Buy and they didn't have that Super Gals! set I wanted, so as a means to not leave empty handed, I just bought all of this blind since it had the words Madhouse and Morio Asaka painted all over it (from what I remember reading online).

...

So yeah, I thought that this was an extremely cute series; probably the cutest I've seen since Cardcaptor Sakura (Iâ€™m not being serious... or am I? /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif ). Watching Henrietta try to garner Joseâ€™s (dub nameâ€¦ but apparently, itâ€™s spelled something like that in the Japanese credits from what I recallâ€¦ which was weird, but whatever) attention and approval was just too adorable for words. She didnâ€™t really need to do so, but her insecurity lead her to act the way she didâ€¦. man, it was really cute.

Pity? I never really felt pity in the circumstances of having little girls work as assassins since Asaka seemed to be aiming in a different direction as opposed to simply drawing your attention too much to the simple fact that the Italian government was using little girls to go out there and kill people (which was actually really cool). But pity in the context of the different fratello relationships and how they were handledâ€¦ I would have to say â€œsold.â€? Okay, Iâ€™m going to expand on this a little since that seems to be a little broad, hopefully, I wonâ€™t fail in conveying my thoughts:

A good example would be the thing with Elsa.



When Lauro (or however you spell it) had Jose take Elsaâ€™s place during the sniping sequence where they had to rub that police captain dude who was gonna snitch on the agency out, you could feel that whatever worth that Elsa felt she had towards her handler was literally taken out of her hands.

You see, the girls donâ€™t really want you to feel pity on them for what they do (as Henrietta pointed out near the ending) because they accept this way of life for what it is. In the duration of the series, my pity towards the girls came through the moments where they would try hardest to live for the sake of their handlers, not because it seemed like they were being forced into doing what theyâ€™re doing now just to be given a second chance at life.

The entire sequence mentioned above was a very good example.



â€¦ Man, I hope that made sense and a clear distinction of what I was getting at.

Talking about that! I was really impressed at how well-directed that sequence came about. Itâ€™s surprising at how cool and technically competent it came off given the other works Iâ€™ve seen from Asaka. The action in the series was pretty neat. I sure do love the higher-end Madhouse productions.

The ending was also really good. In any case, should I have not liked it, â€œrushedâ€? isnâ€™t exactly the word Iâ€™d used since if it were â€œrushed,â€? Asaka wouldâ€™ve probably just pulled something out of nowhere to come up with a resolution to the whole thing. But this wasnâ€™t the case at all. Incomplete would be a better word given that there seems to be more in store for the agency and the girls (all of which, are terribly cute).

Although, I sort of feel that had they continued, theyâ€™d forego the route of:

â€œThe government is weary of your presence, so now weâ€™re going to eliminate your agency by killing all of the personnel involved with your operartions.â€?

â€¦ Yeah, Iâ€™m pretty sure that they wouldâ€™ve gone there eventually.

As for the thing people seem to be talking about in the ending:

 Why the hell would Angelica die? This thought never even crossed my mind until nowâ€¦ if anything, she was moving around just fine in the bed earlier. And theyâ€™re cyborgs, so Iâ€™m assuming that theyâ€™d be harder to kill than that. But hey, if you got evidence and if itâ€™s in the context of the anime: show me. Iâ€™ll gladly change my mind. 

â€¦

So yeah, I think thatâ€™s all.

Chloe

01-12-2006, 08:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
DKL said:

As for the thing people seem to be talking about in the ending:

 Why the hell would Angelica die? This thought never even crossed my mind until nowâ€¦ if anything, she was moving around just fine in the bed earlier. And theyâ€™re cyborgs, so Iâ€™m assuming that theyâ€™d be harder to kill than that. But hey, if you got evidence and if itâ€™s in the context of the anime: show me. Iâ€™ll gladly change my mind. 

â€¦

So yeah, I think thatâ€™s all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with DKL on this one. I just finished watching the series a couple days ago actually, so it is still fresh in my mind. While I did THINK about the possibility, I did conclude she just went to sleep. I mean, her memory is seriously messed up, and she had a broken leg, but that was all. Though they do talk about the girls having shorter lifespans many times in the anime. I only have vol.1 of the manga so far, so I can't correlate the two storylines that way. I can see perfectly clearly why someone might think as chloes_fork does, but I just happen to disagree. In the end though the girls already know they are going to die sooner or later; they say so! Does it matter if she died in that bed or not? I think it comes across as an extremely touching moment no matter how you view it. Henrietta really breaking out of her shell to ask Marko to go see Angelica, and him going there for that final scene, were just wonderful! I loved every minute of that. /images/graemlins/shy00000.gif A great show, and a good ending. I was very impressed that they were daring enough to go with that last episode instead of some blood-drenched finale. Takes guts for a director to make that kind of decision.

chloes_fork

01-12-2006, 09:04 PM

I'd have to watch the ending again to recite chapter and verse of why I think she died, which I wouldn't choose to do out of order and context. I can tell you, though, that no other interpretation even occurred to me while I was watching. And Angelica was the first of the cyborgs, remember, and it was clear all through the series that she was having more problems than the others as a result. Essentially, she was "breaking down" throughout the show, and finally just failed altogether.

FWIW, she doesn't die at that point in the manga, but the anime also saves this story to a later point than the manga does. I think it does so for the purpose of bringing both the show and Ange's life to an end together, with the girls' camaraderie and happiness and the beauty of their singing contrasting with the quiet loss of one of their number.

something

01-19-2006, 01:36 AM

Ah I was going to make a thread about this in R1 but remembered a thread about it existing somewhere... think it should be in R1 not GA but whatever works.

Anyway, as I noted in my recent thread about watching shows out of order, I watched GSG Vol. 3 before Vol. 2 and didn't even realize it until I had about 1.5 eps left and even then only because I happened to glance at the back of the case >_<! While that bugs me greatly, seeing it out of order thankfully didn't ruin it due to the way it's written, but it leaves me knowing I'll never ever "see it for the first time" the way it was supposed to be seen. Man...

Well, I liked it despite that. Liked it a lot. But it suffers from what I knew it would suffer from... 13 episodes almost never works in a series' favor. If this were a 26 episode series it could probably be one of my all-time favorites.

The way the relationships between the handlers and the girls are brought to life are really quite stunning especially between Jose (they spell it that way on the back of the case and elsewhere, but as Gieuse or something in-episode /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif) and Henrietta on the one hand, and Angelica/Marco on the other. Hirsher (which they sometimes spelled Hilshire or something /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif) and Triela were amazing in their episode, but sadly that's pretty much all they got. Triela was probably my favorite, and yet was so under used... BECAUSE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE THAN 13 EPISODES! >_<

The show was certainly depressing at times. Elsa only appeared in two episodes but she was one big ball of "this is what human cruelty can create" and man I'm happy she wasted Lorens or whatever his name was. Angelica also faced some tough times when Marco more or less gave up on being nice after what happened before... I was so glad to see him visit her in the hospital at the end though. Rico was just... gah I wanted to hurt Jean lots. She didn't seem as badly off as Elsa, but I think she was also conditioned far more heavily. The way she reacted when she had to shoot that boy at the hotel was just... chilling. Still, she seems to be happy so, uh, ok /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

Claes appears, from her backstory, as if she never really had a chance. And although it's not said explicitly in the show, I assumed that it was Section 2 that took out her handler after he tried to get a reporter or someone on the case. Triela I liked the best, but she also seemed like she was one of the best off because she was so relatively independent and mature. Henrietta's past was certainly horrible, but Jose treated her wonderfully. Or, as "well" as we can say a girl brainwashed and modified to be an assassin can be treated.

Gah there's so much more I want to say, because this was such an awesome show, but between stupidly watching it out of order and sitting here desparately wishing it was longer, the only thing in my mind is to ask, "How different is the manga and does it go deeper into the story and go on longer?" Because I know one guy on the one producer commentary said he heard rumors of a season two, but I doubt it'll materialize at this point. If the manga adds even a somewhat significant amount, I'll probably have to get it because I really, really need more of this... damnit.

Edit: Oh CRAP, it's an ADV Manga =( Only three volumes are out... I assume it's more than that huh? Comparison chart says it's at least six... Is this one of the rare series they feel fit to allow us common rabble to purchase, or am I basically screwed up the ass as regards ever reading this manga? I'm thinking the latter since TRSIonly lists three in-stock books with no 4th listed, and ADV's own manga site only lists volume one...

SIGH.

chloes_fork

01-19-2006, 08:25 AM

Yeah, ADV's holding the manga hostage to their amazing ineptitude, and it royally sucks. I'd still recommend getting what's available, though. The first two manga volumes contain most of the anime content, and for the most part, the show followed the comic very closely. The stories are presented in a different order, and there are of course some changes along the way, but much of it is almost a scene-for-scene translation. The third manga volume, however, takes you past the point the series left off, so you'll especially want to check that one out.

Ambers79

01-19-2006, 09:48 AM

I just finished watching this series. I didn't get it for a while and only got it because it was offered through Columbia House. I had avoid it because may compared it to Noir and it didn't really like Noir. I really did like this series, and other than the girls with guns thing didn't think it was like Noir. I liked the interplay between the girls and their handelers and how each handler treated their girl. I wish this was a longer series, but I am not sure if it could sustain 26 ep. and continue to be interesting. I think and ova or a movie for this series would be great.

As for the ending
 I thought Angelica died. The first ep. when Herietta got shot and Guise was talking to the doctors they said that every time they had to work on her fix her injuries would shorten her life. Angelica was the first and it was kind of implied they had some troubles with her from the beginning, and she had been in the hospital alot. Since her memory problem was getting worse I just thought that she had finally died.

something

01-19-2006, 02:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ambers79 said:
I had avoid it because may compared it to Noir and it didn't really like Noir.

[/ QUOTE ]

A friend last night said "Have you seen Noir? People tell me GSG is a Noir ripoff." So I can see that others have heard this too, but as you say it... well, isn't.

It's not even remotely a Noir ripoff because it's absolutely nothing like Noir. Anyone who says so has NOT seen both shows. There's just no way.