Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha A's ending discussion (Major Spoilers) [continued]

[something]

Well, the other thread hit 200 as of my post saying it hit 200, so here's the new thread.

The old thread can be found **at this link** (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1232049&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

I also wanted to repost something Gatts put in the old thread, since I thougth it was laid out nicely and answered a number of questions multiple people have had:

[ QUOTE ]
Gatts said:
There is a game series made by Ivory (http://www.ivory.co.jp/) which was a sub label to SP-Janis (http://www.sp-janis.com/). Sp-Janis is probably best known for the games by Tony such as Genmukan, After... and Sora no Iro, Mizu no Iro. Of course that is all of topic since we are talking about the Triangle Hearts game series.

There are three Triangle Hearts games. All three were released under the Janis (http://www.sp-janis.com/brand/janis.shtml) label of sp-janis. All three games deal with different girls in different locations. The first Triangle Hearts was released in 1998. The second Triangle Hearts game, Sazanami Joshi Ryo, was released in 1999 and had a hentai OVA created based off of it. The five part ova was relesed by Discovery (http://www.seddnet.com/products/toraha.html) and has not been licensed. The third Triagle Hearts game, Sweet Songs Forever, was released in 2000 and had a four part non-hentai OVA produced by Discovery (http://www.seddnet.com/products/torahassf.html) and released by King Records. This OVA has also not been licensed.

After Triangle Hearts 3 there was a fan disc released in 2001 called Triangle Hearts 3 - Lyrical Toy Box which had a mini scenario called Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha. This mini-scenario was expanded into the anime that is known by the same name.

Hopefully that makes things clear. The Triangle Hearts universe and the Nanoha universe are separate. They are have a number of the same characters, but the time line is different. You can think of Nanoha as an alternate universe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, the unverified image Funkatron posted that hints at a third season was posted **here in the old thread** (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1253914&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1), or to make it easier (spoilers obviously):
[ QUOTE ]
Funkatron said:
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9748/11375879177449xy.jpg
Yay!! <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>Future</span> Nanoha Goodness!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyway, discuss away... hopefully about more concrete information about a potential season three (eventually...)!

Edit: added image quote

[Funkatron]

[ QUOTE ]
Funkatron said:
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9748/11375879177449xy.jpg

Yay!! <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>Future</span> Nanoha Goodness!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted for conveniene

[MrNice]

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
This show is just full of subtle naughty subjects without being blunt about it!

[/ QUOTE ]Hmmn, does the compulsory bed-hair all the characters have count as well? /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
Funkatron said:
[ QUOTE ]
Funkatron said:
http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9748/11375879177449xy.jpg

Yay!! <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>Future</span> Nanoha Goodness!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Quoted for conveniene

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually yeah, that makes more sense for when the old thread disappears, so I'll add that to the main post.

[Isuzu Inugami]

So, my prediction for season 2 was that, since they made such a big deal about how Fate was sure to get off easy, no worries mate, well, obviously she was going to end up on death row. I figured we'd see season 2 feature Nanoha storming the TSA to bust Fate out. Yeah!!

Well, I was totally wrong, and six years of probationary TSA service from Fate seems to put the kibosh on that storyline. Too bad, because I'd love to see Nanoha go rogue for Fate's sake. My other scenario (Alicia's back from the dead, and boy is she pissed!) seems unlikely after Fate got to meet her in the book.

So what can they do for season 3? There are, what, ten or eleven magic users, packing some truly massive firepower. It's just unwieldy from a storytelling perspective. They could drop Hayate &amp; co., but who would stand for that? Setting them at odds with each other has some potential, but really, that's what the first two seasons did. What's left to threaten these folks?

I hope we get 26 eps, with some room for "relationship" episodes, but on the other hand, the 13 ep season helps keep the show focused and <font color="red">hot blooded!</font>

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
Shimauma said:
What's left to threaten these folks?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell itself decides to try and take Nanoha out.

[Nork22]

[ QUOTE ]
Shimauma said:
What's left to threaten these folks?

[/ QUOTE ]
Some male mages to rival Nanoha's relationship with Fate? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Hayate getting tired of Vita and goes after Nanoha? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The hilarious possibilities are endless.

[pianocello]

Just finished this. I was very impressed with the action sequences and I personally think that this was probably one of the 3 best endings of 2005. I did however feel that considering that the 2nd season centred around her, Hayate was rather bland and lack the interesting personalities of Nanoha or Fate. She seemed more like a plot device than an actual character and sometimes I thought she seemed more like your typical bland lead in a harem anime.

Does anyone know if there are plans for a 3rd season? There's also a manga series, right? Does it go beyond this ending?

Oh...and I don't think I am the only one who has noticed some similarities between the OP of this season and Kannaduki no Miko's OP. I was actually half-expecting an ending between Nanoha and Fate to be something like KnM's ending. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif I hope a 3rd season will have more shoujoai and actually make them a canon couple. And I guess a 3rd season will give us some boobie fanservice?

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Does anyone know if there are plans for a 3rd season?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly nothing but rumors and pictures with no source, but a third season seems like a no-brainer... lets hope the creators agree.

[ QUOTE ]
There's also a manga series, right? Does it go beyond this ending?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's based off a minigame of a game thats based off a character in another game series so... er, it's basically an original story. There is no manga I have ever heard of, and I see nothing on ANN about one.

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Does anyone know if there are plans for a 3rd season?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sadly nothing but rumors and pictures with no source, but a third season seems like a no-brainer... lets hope the creators agree.

[ QUOTE ]
There's also a manga series, right? Does it go beyond this ending?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's based off a minigame of a game thats based off a character in another game series so... er, it's basically an original story. There is no manga I have ever heard of, and I see nothing on ANN about one.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a very, very short Manga for A's, its about 7 chapters long. Its basically sidestories, filling in some of the gaps that the anime didn't cover.

Generally character interactions and random extra information.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
There is a very, very short Manga for A's, its about 7 chapters long. Its basically sidestories, filling in some of the gaps that the anime didn't cover.

Generally character interactions and random extra information.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh, interesting, I'll have to look into that.

[Daniel_Perales]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Just finished this. I was very impressed with the action sequences and I personally think that this was probably one of the 3 best endings of 2005. I did however feel that considering that the 2nd season centred around her, Hayate was rather bland and lack the interesting personalities of Nanoha or Fate. She seemed more like a plot device than an actual character and sometimes I thought she seemed more like your typical bland lead in a harem anime.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if the show were a 26 episode series, instead of 13, probably we would have had more of a character development of Hayate, and the rest of her knights. Hey, maybe even Chrono.


Danny

[Isuzu Inugami]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I did however feel that considering that the 2nd season centred around her, Hayate was rather bland and lack the interesting personalities of Nanoha or Fate. She seemed more like a plot device than an actual character and sometimes I thought she seemed more like your typical bland lead in a harem anime.

[/ QUOTE ]

She had to be a terribly terribly nice person to be able to reject the power the book offered, but that wound up being a bit of a trap as far as making her interesting. It might have been good to see her abuse her power over her guardians just a little bit to spoil herself. "I demand ice cream!" or something like that, more cute than ominous.

Plus, the show was going full blast all the time, and there wasn't much time to take a breather for character development. So the poigniancy of her situation had to substitute--i.e. she was a plot device. Poor girl--used by everyone and everything, including the writers!

[Ty]

[ QUOTE ]
Shimauma said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I did however feel that considering that the 2nd season centred around her, Hayate was rather bland and lack the interesting personalities of Nanoha or Fate. She seemed more like a plot device than an actual character and sometimes I thought she seemed more like your typical bland lead in a harem anime.

[/ QUOTE ]

She had to be a terribly terribly nice person to be able to reject the power the book offered, but that wound up being a bit of a trap as far as making her interesting. It might have been good to see her abuse her power over her guardians just a little bit to spoil herself. "I demand ice cream!" or something like that, more cute than ominous.

Plus, the show was going full blast all the time, and there wasn't much time to take a breather for character development. So the poigniancy of her situation had to substitute--i.e. she was a plot device. Poor girl--used by everyone and everything, including the writers!

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the joy of fantasy. There are no girls that pure-hearted in the real world.

[musouka]

To be honest, Hayate was ten billion times more interesting than Nanoha, even if she was cut from the same mold as Pollyanna. Though she snapped out of it, I think her wish that awakened the Book of Darkness showed that there were more (kinda disturbing) hidden depths to her. Being on the "wrong side" was enough to make her interesting.

Or maybe she just reminds me a bit of Polaris Hilda... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

If A's had focused on Nanoha like the first season, and had been 26 eps long, it would have been completely unwatchable. Fate saved the show last season. Nanoha has no real conflict in her life that makes her interesting to watch, and her characterization mainly consists of her parroting a few phrases over and over again. Practically any other character in the show is better than her, and yes, that does include Yuuno.

[Suwako Moriya]

Well to be honest it would be nice if for at least one season, they'd delve into Nanoha's background. Since neither season 1 or season 2 gives much info on her character. Of course that doesn't mean I want to them to delve into it so deeply they forget the rest of the cast exists.

As for Hayate herself. I happen to like her a lot and she's rather interesting partially due to her situation. Plus her magical girl entrance is one of the coolest I've ever seen. Okay so maybe that means I haven't seen enough magical girls series, but the point is that it's quite impressive to me. Especially how she has this authority figure look to her.

[musouka]

What I liked about Hayate was how in charge she seemed. She was a little unrealistic in that regard, sure, but since the lion's share of focus was given to the Cloud Knights, it kept her from getting stale and irritating.

Nanoha just completely grates on my nerves. (As Fence very well knows. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif ) Sure she <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>comes from a family off assassins</span> but they're the most boring <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>assasins</span> EVER. And as sickeningly sweet as Sakura is, at least there's some degree of sibling tension between her and Touya.

I would have loved Nanoha if she had been a huge snoop and had no sense of propriety in her everyday interactions. Stuff like her snooping around in her sister's diary and making judgement calls on who her siblings dated would have been great. Instead she's dull whenever we see her normal life and a hypocritical twit when in magical girl mode.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
To be honest, Hayate was ten billion times more interesting than Nanoha, even if she was cut from the same mold as Pollyanna. Though she snapped out of it, I think her wish that awakened the Book of Darkness showed that there were more (kinda disturbing) hidden depths to her. Being on the "wrong side" was enough to make her interesting.

Or maybe she just reminds me a bit of Polaris Hilda... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

If A's had focused on Nanoha like the first season, and had been 26 eps long, it would have been completely unwatchable. Fate saved the show last season. Nanoha has no real conflict in her life that makes her interesting to watch, and her characterization mainly consists of her parroting a few phrases over and over again. Practically any other character in the show is better than her, and yes, that does include Yuuno.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nanoha's purpose in the show is to provide fodder for all the Nanoha x Fate yuri doujinshi. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif


A few extra thoughts that just crossed my mind. It's almost scary this season how powerful Chrono is. It would be an interesting plot twist if he became evil in the 3rd season.

Oh...and now an older Yuuno becomes Keitaro Urashima? If a 3rd season is made, I expect to see lots of scenes of him "accidentally" grabbing Nanoha's boobs or falling into her panties. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:


Oh...and now an older Yuuno becomes Keitaro Urashima? If a 3rd season is made, I expect to see lots of scenes of him "accidentally" grabbing Nanoha's boobs or falling into her panties. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How about a good HELL FUCKING NO?

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
How about a good HELL FUCKING NO?

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you. First because there are much better ways they could give us fanservice. Second because Yuuno's character deserves a lot better than that idea mentioned. Even if it may just be a joke...

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Oh...and now an older Yuuno becomes Keitaro Urashima? If a 3rd season is made, I expect to see lots of scenes of him "accidentally" grabbing Nanoha's boobs or falling into her panties. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
How about a good HELL FUCKING NO?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeaaaah... I don't mind a little service in Nanoha, but I really fail to see why outright harem-like fanservice would add anything worthwhile to the show.

If you want to see Nanoha and Fate naked and all over each other, go get a doujin, or use your imagination. I'd rather the show stuck to kicking ass for now, while being more tasteful with its fanservice. I'm not saying it's better to have NONE because thats not true, but I'd like to think there would be more to a third season than that.

[Ty]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Oh...and now an older Yuuno becomes Keitaro Urashima? If a 3rd season is made, I expect to see lots of scenes of him "accidentally" grabbing Nanoha's boobs or falling into her panties. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

That just wouldn't happen, unless the show received an entirely new staff altogether. The first two seasons have been far too intelligent for that to happen.

[sora99]

Hello everyone /images/graemlins/happy.gif Its my first post here, and I only came for the Nanoha discussions! :D

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
To be honest, Hayate was ten billion times more interesting than Nanoha, even if she was cut from the same mold as Pollyanna. Though she snapped out of it, I think her wish that awakened the Book of Darkness showed that there were more (kinda disturbing) hidden depths to her. Being on the "wrong side" was enough to make her interesting.

Or maybe she just reminds me a bit of Polaris Hilda... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

If A's had focused on Nanoha like the first season, and had been 26 eps long, it would have been completely unwatchable. Fate saved the show last season. Nanoha has no real conflict in her life that makes her interesting to watch, and her characterization mainly consists of her parroting a few phrases over and over again. Practically any other character in the show is better than her, and yes, that does include Yuuno.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll have to disagree with you here. In my opinion, Nanoha's character is excellent for a main character. Not every main character has to have a dark, traumatic past for him/her to be interesting. Like a friend said, "Finally a main character who isnt traumatised and doesn't have a huge fox-bitch trapped inside!" lol (Of course, it was a joke)

Anyway, it was thanks to Nanoha that Fate was saved and was able to start a new life. Nanoha never had any conflict in her past, as you said, she lived happily. And then she saw Fate for the first time...
"I'm sure she's around the same age as me..."
"She has such beautiful eyes and hair..."
"But... this girl is..."
I want to help her...! Is what she thought, I'm sure.
Having someone her age with such sad, yet beautiful eyes... how could that be?
I agree that Nanoha's first season was Fate's story, and Nanoha A's was the story of Hayate and the Cloud Knights. However, you gotta have someone to put it all together: and that someone is Nanoha. It was because of her that most events happend the way they did--though obviously much less in A's than in the first season.

To tell you the truth, at first I was drawn into the series because of Fate, and not Nanoha. It was not until A's when I realized how cool Nanoha was... someone--especially as a main character, and 9-years-old no less!--who knows that she'll have to fight and hurt people in order for her feelings to reach them... that's pretty cool.

I really hope there will be a 3rd season, as this is one of my favorite animes of all time. Hopefully Nanoha will be much more important in it!

[Gatts]

[ QUOTE ]
Raging Heart said:
Not every main character has to have a dark, traumatic past for him/her to be interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I only look for extremely traumatic pasts in One Piece characters.

[ QUOTE ]
Raging Heart said:
"I'm sure she's around the same age as me..."
"She has such beautiful eyes and hair..."
"But... this girl is..."

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously love at first sight. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[musouka]

[ QUOTE ]
Raging Heart said:
I'll have to disagree with you here. In my opinion, Nanoha's character is excellent for a main character. Not every main character has to have a dark, traumatic past for him/her to be interesting. Like a friend said, "Finally a main character who isnt traumatised and doesn't have a huge fox-bitch trapped inside!" lol (Of course, it was a joke)

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misread what I was trying to say. I don't object to Nanoha because she doesn't have a dark, tragic past, I object to her because she has the depth of a puddle and she's irritating to boot.

[MrNice]

[ QUOTE ]
Kiku Sarasugawa said:Well to be honest it would be nice if for at least one season, they'd delve into Nanoha's background.

[/ QUOTE ]Er, what background exactly? Like most lead Magical Girls, she was a normal school girl until ep 1.

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:Nanoha has no real conflict in her life

[/ QUOTE ]Argueably true for season 2, but was someone not watching season 1? Besides, I refute the point that a character needs some "conflict in their life" to be worth watching.

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
It's almost scary this season how powerful Chrono is.

[/ QUOTE ]Got a for instance on that? He seemed pretty much on par with S1 to me, at which point when ran through the rpgish magic stats, Chrono had significantly less raw magical ability then Nanoha and Fate, but made up for it with years of training (hence how he seemingly effortlessly broke up one of their duels mid season).

[musouka]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
Argueably true for season 2, but was someone not watching season 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering I was referring to season one when I said it, I'd say that's a given.

BTW, by conflict I meant those day to day interactions. How does mahou shoujo-ing effect her life and her relationships with others? (Obviously not much) Isn't there ever any friction in her household or with her friends? (Nope. BOR-RING) Stuff like that.

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
Besides, I refute the point that a character needs some "conflict in their life" to be worth watching.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can refute it till the cows come home if you want, but that doesn't make you right.

[Fencedude]

*pulls out some popcorn*

This should be entertaining, been a while since musouka's had some fresh blood on this issue.

[MrNice]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
BTW, by conflict I meant those day to day interactions. How does mahou shoujo-ing effect her life and her relationships with others? (Obviously not much) Isn't there ever any friction in her household or with her friends? (Nope. BOR-RING) Stuff like that.


[/ QUOTE ]What, you mean like the fact that she grew increasingly distant from her two best friends due to her Mahou shoujo-ing? That's fact, not opinion, and neatly falls exactly into the kind of "conflict" you were looking for...

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
You can refute it till the cows come home if you want, but that doesn't make you right.

[/ QUOTE ]I think you will find that that's a matter of opinion, not fact, hence it's not about who's "right". That would be why I mentioned it separately from the previous piont /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
This should be entertaining

[/ QUOTE ]Heh, I aim to please /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
This should be entertaining

[/ QUOTE ]Heh, I aim to please /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your funeral.

I've gotten chewed up enough by arguing with musouka...

[musouka]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:What, you mean like the fact that she grew increasingly distant from her two best friends due to her Mahou shoujo-ing? That's fact, not opinion, and neatly falls exactly into the kind of "conflict" you were looking for...

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, the "conflict" that lead to absolutely no conflict besides Boring Friend #2 scowling at her a couple of times and Nanoha looking sad? The one that basically ended on its own in an episode or so with "Okay, whatever, we'll just support her no questions asked"? Not exactly what I had in mind.

Actually, that pissed me off for an entirely different reason. Clearly Nanoha's friends should have stalked her and then beaten the shit out of her until she explained that she was a magical girl. I'm sure Nanoha would have appreciated it in the end.

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:I think you will find that that's a matter of opinion, not fact, hence it's not about who's "right".

[/ QUOTE ]

Thus the whole "you can't be proven right" reponse I made.

[Funkatron]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
Argueably true for season 2, but was someone not watching season 1?

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering I was referring to season one when I said it, I'd say that's a given.

BTW, by conflict I meant those day to day interactions. How does mahou shoujo-ing effect her life and her relationships with others? (Obviously not much) Isn't there ever any friction in her household or with her friends? (Nope. BOR-RING) Stuff like that.

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
Besides, I refute the point that a character needs some "conflict in their life" to be worth watching.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can refute it till the cows come home if you want, but that doesn't make you right.

[/ QUOTE ]

No conflict? How about the whole thing in season 1 about her friends noticing her being more distant(due to her mahou shojo-ing around) and even calling her on the fact that she was keeping something from them. Yeah, no conflict.

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:


Actually, that pissed me off for an entirely different reason. Clearly Nanoha's friends should have stalked her and then beaten the shit out of her until she explained that she was a magical girl. I'm sure Nanoha would have appreciated it in the end.



[/ QUOTE ]

I could almost see Arisa doing that actually.

[musouka]

[ QUOTE ]
Funkatron said:
No conflict? How about the whole thing in season 1 about her friends noticing her being more distant(due to her mahou shojo-ing around) and even calling her on the fact that she was keeping something from them. Yeah, no conflict.

[/ QUOTE ]

::sigh:: But it didn't go anywhere. It never built into anything. Nanoha's two friends basically stood there and repeated "she looks sad I wonder what's wrong", one of them got a little pissy, then poof it was completely gone and had no lasting effect.

There was never really an issue with Nanoha not being able to do everything while attending school. Her parents just said "Oh, okay" when she wanted to run off somewhere for a while without even giving them any specifics. Nanoha never really confronted her friends about their growing distance, they just decided on their own to support her no matter what she was doing. Then a couple of eps later they were back to hanging out and playing video games.

I know these seasons have only thirteen eps, but there was just so much dead space in most of the episodes, I'm sure they could have made these little sparks of conflicts turn into something interesting. I'm sure they could have made Nanoha a vibrant, fun character.

But they didn't, and instead her only purpose is as the glue holding the series together. The series is actually IMPROVED by her not being a focus of it. As the title character, that's just plain sad.

[MrNice]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
Oh, the "conflict" that lead to absolutely no conflict besides Boring Friend #2 scowling at her a couple of times and Nanoha looking sad? The one that basically ended on its own in an episode or so with "Okay, whatever, we'll just support her no questions asked"? Not exactly what I had in mind.


[/ QUOTE ]Ah, so you're arguement isn't that there isn't conflict, its that it doesn't "go anywhere"? Why didn't you just say so /images/graemlins/wink.gif. Besides, all of that if anything is a problem with the plot and with the character of the two friends, not with Nanoha's character itself.
[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
Actually, that pissed me off for an entirely different reason. Clearly Nanoha's friends should have stalked her and then beaten the shit out of her until she explained that she was a magical girl.

[/ QUOTE ]America's clearly a more frightening place then I thought if 8 year olds stalking and beating the shit out of each other is acceptable /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.
[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
Thus the whole "you can't be proven right" reponse I made.

[/ QUOTE ]No, you said that "doesn't make [me] right", not at all the more philosphical answer you are trying to retcon it to /images/graemlins/wink.gif. And I do know the school of thought you are aluding to with saying that non-conflicted characters aren't interesting, but that position requires a much broader definition of "conflict", and is much more concerned with inner conflict within the character then it is with external conflight with other characters /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
America's clearly a more frightening place then I thought if 8 year olds stalking and beating the shit out of each other is acceptable /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.


[/ QUOTE ]

DOn't you mean Japan?

[MrNice]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
DOn't you mean Japan?

[/ QUOTE ]No, musouka, who suggested such an action, is from the USA, Nanoha's friends may be from Japan, but thankfully do no such thing /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[Gatts]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
America's clearly a more frightening place then I thought if 8 year olds stalking and beating the shit out of each other is acceptable /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]8 year olds beating the shit out of each other may not be acceptable, but it is not uncommon... although the stalking part would be unusual. Most kids are pretty straight forward when they want to kick your ass.

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
DOn't you mean Japan?

[/ QUOTE ]No, musouka, who suggested such an action, is from the USA, Nanoha's friends may be from Japan, but thankfully do no such thing /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate people who use smilies like that.

Anyway, her POINT, which I'm sure you understand but are just being an ass about, is that that is exactly what Nanoha DOES.

[MrNice]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
I hate people who use smilies like that.


[/ QUOTE ]Pfft, I've been (ab)using the winkie smiley for a decade now, not about to stop /images/graemlins/wink.gif.
Actually, beware more when I don't use one and are hence being less light-hearted about the debate.
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:

Anyway, her POINT, which I'm sure you understand but are just being an ass about, is that that is exactly what Nanoha DOES.

[/ QUOTE ]Aha, nice catch, I did actually miss the analogy being made, I'm not infallible you know. Still, Nanoha's a Magical Girl and they clearly live outside the normal rules of etiquette and morality /images/graemlins/wink.gif. The very idea of Suzuka and um, the other one, kicking anyones's ass I find highly amusing.

On a purely personal note, If a seriously don't find the main character(s) interesting in a show (note not necessarily most interesting), I simply don't watch it. Life's too short to watch shows only for side characters.

[Ty]

Pass me some of that popcorn of yours, Fence.

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
Aha, nice catch, I did actually miss the analogy being made, I'm not infallible you know. Still, Nanoha's a Magical Girl and they clearly live outside the normal rules of etiquette and morality /images/graemlins/wink.gif. The very idea of Suzuka and um, the other one, kicking anyones's ass I find highly amusing.

[/ QUOTE ]

The first time they met Nanoha and Arisa were definitely about to start kicking each other's asses.

[ QUOTE ]

On a purely personal note, If a seriously don't find the main character(s) interesting in a show (note not necessarily most interesting), I simply don't watch it. Life's too short to watch shows only for side characters.

[/ QUOTE ]

heheheheheh...the story of how musouka came to watch Nanoha is...interesting.

[MrNice]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
heheheheheh...the story of how musouka came to watch Nanoha is...interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]Hmmn? Please tell, or a thread link if appropriate.

ps: I'm not eating popcorn, but I am drinking beer /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[Ty]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
On a purely personal note, If a seriously don't find the main character(s) interesting in a show (note not necessarily most interesting), I simply don't watch it. Life's too short to watch shows only for side characters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why's that? There are lots of good show that have boring or just plain retarded main characters which are still very watchable. Onegai Teacher springs to mind right away as a personal example. An interesting character makes for an interesting show, regardless of whether they've been designated as the lead or not.

[MrNice]

[ QUOTE ]
Xcalibur said:
Why's that?


[/ QUOTE ]Why not? Leads dominate screen time (and if they don't, they aren't really the leads /images/graemlins/wink.gif). It takes all sorts, judging by a thread in the R1 forum a couple of weeks ago for example some don't watch a show if they can't get a sneek preview via fansubbing for example /images/graemlins/wink.gif.
It's not something I conciously think about, merely an empyrical fact.
[ QUOTE ]
Xcalibur said:
There are lots of good show that have boring or just plain retarded main characters which are still very watchable. Onegai Teacher springs to mind right away as a personal example.

[/ QUOTE ]Hey, I like that show /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
heheheheheh...the story of how musouka came to watch Nanoha is...interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]Hmmn? Please tell, or a thread link if appropriate.

ps: I'm not eating popcorn, but I am drinking beer /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Old Gamefaqs thread, long, long gone.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
Isn't there ever any friction in her household or with her friends? (Nope. BOR-RING) Stuff like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

...But there was. She got in fights with Alice over it all the time.

Edit: I see others have brought the point up, but your response is basically that it didn't happen the way you'd like. ::shrugs:: I'll still consider it conflict myself, and still a very minor aspect of why I liked the show.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
Besides, I refute the point that a character needs some "conflict in their life" to be worth watching.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can refute it till the cows come home if you want, but that doesn't make you right.

[/ QUOTE ]

...And you can pretend something as purely subjective as that can be measured in "right" and "wrong" but then you'd be making shit up.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
Raging Heart said:
To tell you the truth, at first I was drawn into the series because of Fate, and not Nanoha. It was not until A's when I realized how cool Nanoha was... someone--especially as a main character, and 9-years-old no less!--who knows that she'll have to fight and hurt people in order for her feelings to reach them... that's pretty cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn straight. Fate owned season one for me, but A's indeed showed how awesome Nanoha was. I never found her remotely irritating, not even once, and in fact her character was refreshing as hell. Enemies don't want to talk it over? Well, don't get angsty and write goth poetry in your LJ, just kick their asses until they have to listen.

Awesome~

[musouka]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
Ah, so you're arguement isn't that there isn't conflict, its that it doesn't "go anywhere"?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, my argument is that it's not much of a conflict if the two parties never even really address it before it's magically resolved.

EDIT: Which, upon retrospect, is almost exactly what you said. So I'll amend it to saying what what little conflict they introdoced was handled badly and dully.

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
Old Gamefaqs thread, long, long gone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, I've actually mellowed a (tiny) bit on the topic since then too. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

To the rest of you, I think it's important to keep in mind there were only about two or three eps of the original season I didn't outright loathe.

[Ty]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
Hey, I like that show /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

So do I. Just not for it's lead characters (really just Mizuho though..... couldn't stand her for some reason). /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Your comments, in my opinion, made the generalization that an anime isn't going to be interesting unless it has an interesting lead. I just happen to think there are lots of show that disprove this thought.

[Ty]

While I'm quite sure this has been asked of you before at some point, I still must ask......... Why are you watching a show when you claim to loath more than 3/4 of it?

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
It's almost scary this season how powerful Chrono is.

[/ QUOTE ]Got a for instance on that? He seemed pretty much on par with S1 to me, at which point when ran through the rpgish magic stats, Chrono had significantly less raw magical ability then Nanoha and Fate, but made up for it with years of training (hence how he seemingly effortlessly broke up one of their duels mid season).

[/ QUOTE ]
Ep 10

[musouka]

[ QUOTE ]
Xcalibur said:
While I'm quite sure this has been asked of you before at some point, I still must ask......... Why are you watching a show when you claim to loath more than 3/4 of it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I blame Fence.

[sora99]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
It's almost scary this season how powerful Chrono is.

[/ QUOTE ]Got a for instance on that? He seemed pretty much on par with S1 to me, at which point when ran through the rpgish magic stats, Chrono had significantly less raw magical ability then Nanoha and Fate, but made up for it with years of training (hence how he seemingly effortlessly broke up one of their duels mid season).

[/ QUOTE ]
Ep 10

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed, that Struggle Bind was really powerful. Dispeling the transformation magic is one of the spell's properties, but that doesn't explain how he was able to restrain them for so long. They, as Chrono's masters, should've been able to free themselves at least after the dispel...

Chrono sugoi! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

On a side note, theorically Yuuno should be able to cast an even stronger bind, dont you think? As binding is Yunno's specialty...

[Ty]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
[ QUOTE ]
Xcalibur said:
While I'm quite sure this has been asked of you before at some point, I still must ask......... Why are you watching a show when you claim to loath more than 3/4 of it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I blame Fence.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's popular I hear, but I'm not letting you dodge my question quite that easily.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
Ah, so you're arguement isn't that there isn't conflict, its that it doesn't "go anywhere"?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, my argument is that it's not much of a conflict if the two parties never even really address it before it's magically resolved.

EDIT: Which, upon retrospect, is almost exactly what you said. So I'll amend it to saying what what little conflict they introdoced was handled badly and dully.

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
Old Gamefaqs thread, long, long gone.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, I've actually mellowed a (tiny) bit on the topic since then too. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

To the rest of you, I think it's important to keep in mind there were only about two or three eps of the original season I didn't outright loathe.

[/ QUOTE ]
fun stuff going on here! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
Xcalibur said:
[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
[ QUOTE ]
Xcalibur said:
While I'm quite sure this has been asked of you before at some point, I still must ask......... Why are you watching a show when you claim to loath more than 3/4 of it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I blame Fence.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's popular I hear, but I'm not letting you dodge my question quite that easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

Short version: She watched the first episode of A's and fell in love with Vita.

Long version: ...entirely not worth the amount of effort to type.

[Shiroi Hane]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
There is a very, very short Manga for A's, its about 7 chapters long. Its basically sidestories, filling in some of the gaps that the anime didn't cover.

Generally character interactions and random extra information.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh, interesting, I'll have to look into that.

[/ QUOTE ]
There was a mini manga pullout in Megami if that's what you mean, I have mentioned it before.

[DiGiKerot]

[ QUOTE ]
Shiroi Hane said:
[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
There is a very, very short Manga for A's, its about 7 chapters long. Its basically sidestories, filling in some of the gaps that the anime didn't cover.

Generally character interactions and random extra information.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh, interesting, I'll have to look into that.

[/ QUOTE ]
There was a mini manga pullout in Megami if that's what you mean, I have mentioned it before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly, though I think it ran in a couple of magazines from the same publisher. As Fence said, it ran for about 7 chapters from what I remember - the first was "Prologue of Aces", which unsurprisingly is just before the start of the series, then went onto five character centric issues (featuring the likes of Arisa) and ended on "Epilogue of Aces", which takes place just before the timeskip (with Nanoha, Fate et al in there work uniforms - cute).

[TalonG4]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
[ QUOTE ]
Xcalibur said:
[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
[ QUOTE ]
Xcalibur said:
While I'm quite sure this has been asked of you before at some point, I still must ask......... Why are you watching a show when you claim to loath more than 3/4 of it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I blame Fence.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's popular I hear, but I'm not letting you dodge my question quite that easily.

[/ QUOTE ]

Short version: She watched the first episode of A's and fell in love with Vita.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to butt in but, I pretty much kept watching A's for the same reason... even though I liked the 1st series a little more then musouka did.

[sora99]

[ QUOTE ]
DiGiKerot said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shiroi Hane said:
[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
There is a very, very short Manga for A's, its about 7 chapters long. Its basically sidestories, filling in some of the gaps that the anime didn't cover.

Generally character interactions and random extra information.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh, interesting, I'll have to look into that.

[/ QUOTE ]
There was a mini manga pullout in Megami if that's what you mean, I have mentioned it before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Possibly, though I think it ran in a couple of magazines from the same publisher. As Fence said, it ran for about 7 chapters from what I remember - the first was "Prologue of Aces", which unsurprisingly is just before the start of the series, then went onto five character centric issues (featuring the likes of Arisa) and ended on "Epilogue of Aces", which takes place just before the timeskip (with Nanoha, Fate et al in there work uniforms - cute).

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool! I can't wait for chapter 7 to be translated then!

And there's also 3 sound stages with extra scenes. I read that Sound Stage 03 will take place after the events of A's anime... I can't wait for that either! Thankfully I can understand some japanese /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

With all the extra scenes the sound stages provide, I really wish the anime was 26 episodes long to include them all. The anime would have had much more character interaction--which is what you guys were arguing over yesterday. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif (Though maybe the scenes some of us wanted are not in the sound stages either hehe)

Also, for those of you who have read A's manga chapter 1 (Prologue of Aces is chapter 0), Nanoha's so cool!! Why didn't they explain all that in the anime??

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
Xcalibur said:An interesting character makes for an interesting show, regardless of whether they've been designated as the lead or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Heck while I don't automatically hate characters because they are the lead. Truth be told I'm often more interested in the supporting cast itself. Speaking of Onegai Teacher. The only reason that show was watchable was because of the supporting cast. Although in the case of Onegai Twins I did like the two lead girls.

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
Mr. Nice said:
Why not? Leads dominate screen time (and if they don't, they aren't really the leads /images/graemlins/wink.gif).

[/ QUOTE ]

You're completely right there. However some anime are more balanced. Ie that while the lead is the main focus and s/he gets the most screen time. The lead is NOT the only being in existence. Thus when a series is fairer to the cast. It's a lot easier to watch the show because of the supporting cast because they actually matter to the plot. They aren't just there to make the lead look good. Of course then it depends on what you mean by lead. Ie for example take Inuyasha. Would you consider only Inuyasha the lead? Or would you extend it to Inuyasha and Kagome? Heck maybe even further to Inuyasha's entire traveling group.

[pianocello]

A few more thoughts:

Something that bugs me about ep 10 concerning the two masked fellows:
<span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'> How come in one scene the catgirls were with their father and suddenly in the next scene (how did they get there so fast?), there are battling with Chrno. Huh? </span>

How come Fate and Nanoha get a nude transformation sequence but Hayate's team does not have a nude transformation sequence?

If the catgirls' father is human (he is their real father, right?), then that must mean that their mother is a pure catgirl, right?

Did anyone else feel that the 1st half of the last episode reminded them of the last episode of Galaxy Fraulein Yuna Returns ?

[Rhodes]

the cat girls are familars... same as fates dog girl servant... fate created her and you could say fate is her mom.

[Gatts]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
If the catgirls' father is human (he is their real father, right?), then that must mean that their mother is a pure catgirl, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

They are his familiars. Just like Arf is Fate's familiar.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
Gatts said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
If the catgirls' father is human (he is their real father, right?), then that must mean that their mother is a pure catgirl, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

They are his familiars. Just like Arf is Fate's familiar.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just mean that the old man is a perv. That is all /images/graemlins/happy.gif.
If I was a magician, I would creat me two twins cat girls as my familiar too. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
If the catgirls' father is human (he is their real father, right?), then that must mean that their mother is a pure catgirl, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait what? o_O They're his familiars...

[Suwako Moriya]

I wonder if there is any artwork of the catgirls in animal form. Assuming they have multiple forms like Arf. Now I'm sorting hoping that Nanoha will create her own familiar. Okay so maybe Yuuno can sort of count as her familiar. I say sort of since well I'm certain Yuuno is not a familiar, but hey he does have an animal form.

[Gatts]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Something that bugs me about ep 10 concerning the two masked fellows:
<span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'> How come in one scene the catgirls were with their father and suddenly in the next scene (how did they get there so fast?), there are battling with Chrno. Huh? </span>

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that someone else would touch on this point by now, but I guess I will do so. You have forgotten the fact that 1. they can teleport. It is well within all of the character's abilities to teleport and I'm sure that the girls who taught Chrono his magic have the ability. 2. time lapse. You don't know how much time there actually was between the scenes. This isn't an episode of 24 where they pop a clock up on the screen every few minutes to remind you that only 30 seconds has passed by.

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
How come Fate and Nanoha get a nude transformation sequence but Hayate's team does not have a nude transformation sequence?

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/icon_rolleyes.gif Vita, Shamal, Signum, Zafira and Rinforce are all constructs. Not really magic girls/guys. They summon their clothes as a battle command. Sort of like calling for their weapons. Notice that Hayate has a nude transformation, but the others do not. I guess they could give the constructs transformation sequences if they wanted to, but it make sense for them not to have one.

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
If the catgirls' father is human (he is their real father, right?), then that must mean that their mother is a pure catgirl, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Already answered.

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Did anyone else feel that the 1st half of the last episode reminded them of the last episode of Galaxy Fraulein Yuna Returns ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, but that's just my opinion. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
Gatts said:


[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
How come Fate and Nanoha get a nude transformation sequence but Hayate's team does not have a nude transformation sequence?

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/icon_rolleyes.gif Vita, Shamal, Signum, Zafira and Rinforce are all constructs. Not really magic girls/guys. They summon their clothes as a battle command. Sort of like calling for their weapons. Notice that Hayate has a nude transformation, but the others do not. I guess they could give the constructs transformation sequences if they wanted to, but it make sense for them not to have one.



[/ QUOTE ]

Also, the series has demonstrated on several occasions that the summoning of the Barrier Jacket is infact virtually instantaneous.

The transformation sequence is fanservice, in the most literal sense of the word.

[Isuzu Inugami]

[ QUOTE ]
Kiku Sarasugawa said:
I wonder if there is any artwork of the catgirls in animal form. Assuming they have multiple forms like Arf.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, they seem able to take any form they want, but unlike Yuuno, Arf and the book guy, there's never any reason for them to disguise themselves as animals.

[ QUOTE ]
Now I'm sorting hoping that Nanoha will create her own familiar. Okay so maybe Yuuno can sort of count as her familiar. I say sort of since well I'm certain Yuuno is not a familiar, but hey he does have an animal form.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yuuno isn't technically a familiar, but in the first series he certainly fulfills that function. He seems to be going off on his own path in A's, though. It's kind of interesting to imagine what sort of familiar Nanoha would cook up, but at this point there are so many characters it seems excessive to throw in one more. Plus Yuuno is still there, to be a part time backup familiar if necessary. Although I kind of want him to be written out (I never liked you anyway, Yuuno! Nyaaa!!)