School me on Saint Seiya!

[Super Saiyajin Joshua]

I've seen various volumes of this show at the store and it looks vaugely Samurai Troopers-esque. What is it about? And is there a set available yet? Thanks in advance.

[Nuriko]

Saint Seiya is a shonen series, where there's alot of action and blood. The story is derived from Greek Mythology and focused on Gods and their warriors dueling.

Music is awesome, has climax/slow/romantic music. Definitely one of the best during its time imo.

Action, if you love action, this is a no brainer.

It's 114 episodes. Here's the drawback. There is an ADV thinpack coming out, however ADV did not released the entire 114 episodes. IIRC, there are 5 arcs and ADV only released 2 and a half arcs. They did not complete the 3rd arc which is the highlight of the entire Saint Seiya series imo. Because of that, I rather no one supports it despite me wanting everyone to see it.

What's the point if you can't see how it ends? The first 3 arcs connect to each other and gives the series closure. Although, the fourth and fifth arcs are connected somewhat, it is not required. One can stop there if they want, but the 4th and 5th is still good, just looses some impact after the 3rd arc which is amazing beyond words!

[ohtori_akio]

Saint Seiya is basically (without overselling it) the BEST shounen anime ever!!! It is really an amazing series that has stood the test of time very well with its themes of friendship, hardship, love, jealousy, heartbreak, loneliness and devotion. The strangest thing about this series is unlike its shounen counterparts, it IMPROVES over time, with the Asgard series being the standout in terms of connection with the audience.

The only trouble you will have is (as the previous poster mentioned) the whole series has not been released. Considering how much content you will get once the first thinpack is released though (30 eps for $49.95) it would be foolish to pass it up.

[Super Saiyajin Joshua]

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Nuriko said:


ADV did not released the entire 114 episodes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are they going to or did they just decide not to?

[Super Saiyajin Joshua]

How is the manga btw? I just found out that the manga's out there also. Is it getting a full release? It's by Viz so is it edited? Thanks again.

[ohtori_akio]

As far as I know VIZ is releasing the whole manga series. It seems that they have caught up with the anime as well since it's been a few months since a DVD volume was released. Check the VIZ website to make sure if you want. I believe it is www.viz.com (http://www.viz.com) and look at their upcoming releases.

ADV did say they owned right to the entire Saint Seiya series but there have been problems with Toei recently, which is giving them some trouble to release the rest. I have not read anything official about the matter though but as it is we have 60 episodes released.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

I just want to say that it's not like Samurai Troopers (also, if it were so, it would be the other way around). The Samurai Troopers creators were big Saint Seiya fans and created a show with magic armor as a homage, although the series itself is quite different.

Basically, Saint Seiya is one of the defining shounen series, alongside Dragon Ball, which is a contemporary series. Guess where the golden glowing warriors come from? It's not originated by DBZ and SSJ!

[Super Saiyajin Joshua]

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Dragon Shiryu said:
I just want to say that it's not like Samurai Troopers (also, if it were so, it would be the other way around).

[/ QUOTE ]

Just for the record too. I wasn't implying that Saint Seiya was inspired by Samurai Troopers. It's just that I've seen ST's and by looking at the DVD's and what my friend told me about the show it reminded me of Samurai Troopers. So I was trying to compare it to something I've already seen.

[fujishig]

The last Viz volume of St. Seiya I read finished the Sanctuary (third) arc, so yes the manga has surpassed what ADV has released.

[Gold_guardian]

I've preordered this boxset in the hopes that it'll sell enough for Adv to release the rest of the series.

[scorsesefan]

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shounen kakumei akio said:
Saint Seiya is basically (without overselling it) the BEST shounen anime ever!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, that's high accolades! It's funny that just as I was checking this one out, someone made a post about it. Though, the tournament/power-level fighting isn't my thing. I really don't like Dragonball Z, at all. In fact, here's what it feels like to me most of the time;

-"Come on, give me all you've got."
-"I'm only using half my power."
-"So am I!"
-"Then..how about...THIS!!!!"

Proceeded by earth shattering explosions. This goes on for about twenty episodes until the fight is over and our heroes advance to the next big enemy. Rinse and repeat.

Is Saint Seiya built around a similar formula? If you like either and my simplification of DBZ has pissed you off, I apologize, it's just my opinion. If SS is pretty much the same thing, just the precusor of these types of shows, I'd like to know before spending any cash on it. Because it seems when ever someone says "But this is the show that inspired (insert show title here)", it always ends up that the inspiration usually isn't as good. At least in my experience.

[ohtori_akio]

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SkullLeaderOne said:
[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
Saint Seiya is basically (without overselling it) the BEST shounen anime ever!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn, that's high accolades! It's funny that just as I was checking this one out, someone made a post about it. Though, the tournament/power-level fighting isn't my thing. I really don't like Dragonball Z, at all. In fact, here's what it feels like to me most of the time;

-"Come on, give me all you've got."
-"I'm only using half my power."
-"So am I!"
-"Then..how about...THIS!!!!"

Proceeded by earth shattering explosions. This goes on for about twenty episodes until the fight is over and our heroes advance to the next big enemy. Rinse and repeat.

Is Saint Seiya built around a similar formula? If you like either and my simplification of DBZ has pissed you off, I apologize, it's just my opinion. If SS is pretty much the same thing, just the precusor of these types of shows, I'd like to know before spending any cash on it. Because it seems when ever someone says "But this is the show that inspired (insert show title here)", it always ends up that the inspiration usually isn't as good. At least in my experience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I can definitely tell you that Saint Seiya differs from DBZ in many many ways. To start off what you have seen with the tournament at the start does not last that long at all. I think it might actually be over be the time you hit the 3rd dvd as bigger things happen.

Another thing I am thankful about when it comes to Saint Seiya is that the longest a battle is dragged on for is 2 1/2 episode (as opposed to DBZ or Naruto's 7 to 10). And with that, you usually get something else happening during those fights so it might actually be less.

Later on in the series though, it develops its own internal cliche with its plot device but I have not seen *this* particular cliche be repeated in an annoying way ever!!! It is also the first shounen anime to include bishounens as the fighters. So this is also another great thing about it as I *love* eye candy /images/graemlins/happy.gif All in all, if you like shounen you should like this very very much.

[scorsesefan]

Being a male, any shonen anime will probably appeal to me. I'm gonna put this on my list, just in the "Classics I Need to Visit" section.

But uh, bishonen? I'm assuming you mean bisexual, which would intimate scenes of guy on guy action, or at least guy on guy action being alluded to. This did happen once in my favorite anime of all time, but uh, please tell me it's not a major plot thread. Don't wanna see two guys go at it or anything. Nothing against that lifestyle though. You can keep your bath water any temperature you like. Just don't splash any of it on me, that's my motto. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Oh, and I like eye candy too. Like in Chrono Crusade when, almost inappropriately, at the climax of the action, Rosette is stripped down to basically nothing. Can I get a witness?

[nakimushi]

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SkullLeaderOne said:

But uh, bishonen? I'm assuming you mean bisexual, which would intimate scenes of guy on guy action, or at least guy on guy action being alluded to. This did happen once in my favorite anime of all time, but uh, please tell me it's not a major plot thread. Don't wanna see two guys go at it or anything. Nothing against that lifestyle though. You can keep your bath water any temperature you like. Just don't splash any of it on me, that's my motto. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif


[/ QUOTE ]


Bishounen literally means "pretty boy(s)", just as Bishoujo means "pretty girl(s)". (The first syllable is pronounced "BE" not "BI")

Although there are BL (boys love)/Shounen Ai series, Saint Seiya is definitely not one of them.

Some action shows, in an attempt to broaden their appeal and attract female viewers, will go for bishounen character designs - see Gundam Wing as an example. But since the primary audience for shows like these are male, there isn't any shounen ai in them.

[ohtori_akio]

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nakidasu said:
Although there are BL (boys love)/Shounen Ai series, Saint Seiya is definitely not one of them.


[/ QUOTE ]

There are a couple of scenes that have a "shounen ai" flavour to them, if you read into. It doesn't help that I originally watched a bootleg of the first season (it wasn't licensed yet) and Aiolia once said something to Seiya and it was translated to "Should I kill you quickly or molest you slowly to death?" I mean come on, that's pretty bad /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Another one was of Hyoga referring to Shun and it was translated to "Shun input his warm life inside my body." That one was also hilarious. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[scorsesefan]

Learn something new everyday...

[Dragon_Shiryu]

Akio, the tournament actually lasts from episodes 2-7. I said it's one of the most influemtial shonen titles, along with DBZ, not that it is like DBZ. The mood from both series is very different. Here'll be a round-up of things that might make you decide whether or not to go for it:

1. Almost zero comedy. As I said, the modd in StS is quite different from DB, Naruto, YYH, etc. Saint Seiya goes more for the dramatic, and yes, sometimes cheesy, feel. Oh, and they never go training. The catch in Saint Seiya is that they all already trained to become Saints, so it's mostly a combination of cooperation between the team, and willpower.

2. Yes, this is one of those cases where the team is actually very useful. And don't expect adventuring. The saints are basically soldiers (in an action shounen fashion, but get the idea :p).

3. It has quite a bit of filler episodes (you'll notice quite some of them, because they usually have the worst opponents introduced, like those sea guys). I'd also say the first 15 episodes are basically an introduction to the five main characters, and a few key characters that'll be important later on.

4. Be warned that it's old. While the colors and some of the designs still look good, the animation itself does not.

5. The music is awesome. Some of the music from the beginning is bad, heariung some beautiful music here and there. Later on, most of the music is downright beautiful.

6. It does share some of the shounen cliches. But the reason for that is that it created many of those (either it, or the previous manga by Kurumada, RnK).

7. They do talk a lot between the fights. This is what usually divides the people to like it or not. The talk rarely is "I'm stronger than you" though, so I love the interactions in battle. But other people are bored by that.

[scorsesefan]

I'm really torn right now. See, the only thing about a show that inspired cliches is that at this point, it doesn't matter whether or not SS was the first to use them, they will still seem like cliches to someone like me who is already use to them.

On the other hand, the score for a show/film is a big thing for me, and if it's got great music, than it's got my attention. The fact that they talk during battles isn't neccessarily a turn off for me. Only problem is that I generally hate it when TOO much conversation goes in during a fight in anime. I'd rather them get it out before, or after, or in all the scenes where the two combatants meet in previous episodes before the fight. I think Chrono Crusade is an excellent example of this. They never just stop what they're doing to give long winded speeches, they just make their points before the fighting starts, in previous episodes.

I know that fight for awhile, talk for awhile, then go back to fighting is sorta just the nature of the beast when it comes to this type of show though, so in that respect I can handle it.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

I do understand the feeling. I can't be of much help regarding whther or not someone right now would enjoy it, since I've been a fan for around 13 years. I grew up both in age and as an anime fan with it, so my view of it is just completely different. I can, at the very least, tell you that what sets it apart from the usual shounen anime is the mood, the setting and the fact that it takes its story seriously.

But what about the best way to try it? Why don't you go and watch a few episodes? Just don't judge the series because of the first few episodes.The series pulls an opposite from most shounens regarding this. Instead of a story that leads into a tournament, it starts with a tournament that leads into the story (but the tournament only lasts until episode 7, so don't expect a 30+ episodes tournament arc).

[Super Saiyajin Joshua]

So what's holding ADV from releaseing the rest of this on DVD? Is it licensing issues? It didn't make enough money? I'm not gonna buy the box sets that are coming out if there's no hope of seeing the rest of the show.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

They never answer that. So it's not known if it's a Toei isuue, or just that it didn't sell well enough. Until ADV speaks, there's no telling.

[ohtori_akio]

Shiryu, I think you might be doing a much better job at selling Saint Seiya than I've done! I forgot about those eps with the sea guys. They were actually funny, in an annoying sort of way. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Another thing I would say Saint Seiya has over other shounen titles is a heart. I'm not saying the other ones do not have their merits but none of them have touched me like Saint Seiya has (no yaoi subtext there). As Shiryu has pointed out before this is greatly because of the atmosphere that is produced, the build up becomes very strong because of the drama and has some of the best climaxes I have seen (for all its seasons).

As to whether a "newbie" can enjoy Saint Seiya. I have been with this show for years, grew up with it like my fellow Saint has so it holds a very special place in my heart. I have shown it to 3 people in the past year, who had not seen it before. 2 boys and 1 girl. It became the favourite shounen of one of the boys, second favourite of the other one (behind Kenshin) and the girl loves it as well. So I would say there is a good chance for you to like it even if you haven't grown up with it /images/graemlins/happy.gif

EDIT: About the ADV release. I would say there is a chance that they would release the rest but I think it is highly dependent on how well these thinpacks sell. If it is the fact that the license seems too expensive, they have to see that it's worth it because there is an audience for it. So I'd say buy the thinpacks now and let's help convince ADV that Saint Seiya is worthy of a license/release.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

I would do a better job if everything was released. I'm especially good at making people watch the Hades chapter (my favorite arc) /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif. But you hit the nail with what you said as well. That's one of the biggest reasons I love Saint Seiya. The characters have a heart, passion, and recognize their faults and mistakes. I was just rewatching the Inferno episodes, and even though I'm displeased by the cheapassness by Toei, I still love the content. I loved in the judgement episode how Seiya, Shun and Kanon recognize they're sinners and that they've killed countless people and hurt many others, but being born a human makes you do many sins, like feeling envy or hurting others sometimes, and a lot more. That's the sort of stuff I enjoy, and probably why a lot of my favorite series are serious and character driven (besides Saint Seiya, I adore Berserk, Gungrave, Now and Then Here and There, Rose of Versailles, amongst others).

The biggest frustration for me as a fan is not being able to have the entire series on DVDs that I can easily buy. There's the Mexican official DVDs, but Saint Seiya is so popular there that all the boxes sold out. There's still the DVDs from Spain, so I can go for those if ADV doesn't release the rest. I was rather enjoying the english dub by ADV, so that sucks for me.

If anything, I would want to at least have an answer from ADV whether they'll release the rest or not, so I can save enough money to import what's left.

[ohtori_akio]

The Hades chapter is definitely a big part of what makes Saint Seiya so great. But even before I knew of its existence, this series was one of my favourites.
I find that it and Rose of Versailles are two series that aim directly for your heart. They also have an honesty about them that you don't get in anime nowadays. At the time they were made, they were not trying to just be flash with 3D graphics and things so they had a lot more respect for the story they were telling. They are real classics no matter how you look at it. It is also true in the way they build up the emotion in their stories.

[Nuriko]

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
The Hades chapter is definitely a big part of what makes Saint Seiya so great. But even before I knew of its existence, this series was one of my favourites.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even without the Hades Chapter, Saint Seiya is awesome by the end of the gold saints arc. If it ended there, I wouldn't have any complaints as well. The 2 arcs after that was good but nowhere near the level of the 3rd arc until Hades Chapter. Unfortunately, we've only seen the beginning of that but what a beginning it is!

[Dragon_Shiryu]

It was my favorite series before I read Hades Chapter as well. But when I read thee manga, the Hades arc just literally floored me. When reading it I was always thinking "Damn, this arc is awesome!".

Saint Seiya first attracted me because of the violence and the music. I was a kid, flipping the channels, and happened to catch the very first episode of Saint Seiya, from the beginning. When I heard the music played when Marin was explaining the basics of cosmos to Seiya, I fell in love with it. Then I saw Seiya ripping Cassios' ear and was utterly astonished :p. After that I needed to watch more. Suddenly, the rest of the cast was introduced, and I loved it. By the 12 Temples arc, I just couldn't wait to watch 1 episode every week. I love the 12 Temples arc as well, it's my second favorite.

Asgard I liked, but would've enjoyed it had it not dragged as much as it did. Anime Poseidon isn't that good, but the manga Poseidon arc is quite good, since it has a lot more story. <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>Like how the saints are in a coma, the gold saints appearing in the beginning. And it tells us what happens at the end, like Thetis dying. Oh, and Kanon was the one that got hit by Poseidon's spear, not Seiya. </span>

[Dragon_Shiryu]

I wonder, can I show a small video I made in here? I'm not sure if it's illegal, but it's certainly not an entire episode. It's just a small video that shows the introduction of Radamanthys and Pandora.

[ohtori_akio]

I don't think it would be a problem for you to post a link as such. This particular one could be a spoiler for people who have not seen the show, so if you just state that, it should be alright...

[Dragon_Shiryu]

Doesn't really spoil anything. Here's the small video introducing Radamanthys and Pandora. I just love that scene:
http://s52.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0QR3DTNHJ6E7A1BLQNEDI2IOJ6

[geraldr]

I don't know if it's really worth me saying anything since it seems like the general opinion has been decided, but I've tried rather hard to get into Saint Seiya. I saw a lot of the show in French, Spanish and in Japanese and each time I was disappointed. This show is so horribly repetitive and painful that it just becomes a chore to watch. And when I mean every episode is the same, I mean EVERY EPISODE. Yeah, it may involve a different character and different enemy, but the premise is the same for each episode. Guys find enemy, guys get the crap beaten out of them, discover something stupid about life, use newfound knowledge of life to learn new move and use it on bad guy, rinse and repeat.

I'm being frank here, I just couldn't stand the show, the asshole characters or the insanely repetitive plot line. Now, while an individual fight may only go on an episode or two, the overall fight will literaly go on forever, it's painful to watch 20+ episodes in and still see them fighting basically the same bad guys over and over again. This really wasn't a show that was meant to be bought, it was meant to be watched casually over a long period of time like DBZ because I can't imagine anyone actually being able to sit through it.

[vegeta11]

absolutely fantastic series, which has started to make me hate ADV. When YYH and Saint Seiya were licensed I was estatic, well YYH has come completely out (own every disc) and Saint Seiya got screwed. I would have bought every disc instead I had to get the R2s for the series which cost me a fortune. But I did just receive my inferno disc so now I'm going to go watch that and return to Hades!

[fujishig]

Hmm... this is tough. I concede a lot of your points... the plot is simplistic and it's basically a lot of fighting with the same moves over and over (if you think this is bad, the movies are pretty much all the same: everyone gives Seiya their energy, and he gets the gold armor of Saggitarius, etc., etc.). There is a lot of character in there, but it never really rises that far above the basic shonen plot points. Of course, this made it a favorite of mine as a kid, since I could understand what was going on in both the anime and manga without having to understand Japanese. Plus, I loved the gimmick (armor that forms various constellations) and toys.

On the one hand, I want people to support the upcoming thinpack release because that's the only way we'll see the rest of it, if there is a way. On the other hand, I can hardly recommend an incomplete anime (if they finished the gold knight saga, that would be enough), and one has to go into it knowing that it's basic shonen action. Not that it's not good, and that the characters aren't well developed, but the animation is dated and there's a ton of filler (because it had caught up to the manga at the time) and it's basically fight opponents, the initial ones become allies, and go up against stronger and stronger enemies.

Despite the name changes, I think I'd recommend trying out the manga first...

[Gold_guardian]

I really hope this does well becuse I'd like to have the entire sereis inluding the kick ass Hades ova's in my collection.

[Nuriko]

[ QUOTE ]
Fujishig said:
On the one hand, I want people to support the upcoming thinpack release because that's the only way we'll see the rest of it, if there is a way. On the other hand, I can hardly recommend an incomplete anime (if they finished the gold knight saga, that would be enough), and one has to go into it knowing that it's basic shonen action. Not that it's not good, and that the characters aren't well developed, but the animation is dated and there's a ton of filler (because it had caught up to the manga at the time) and it's basically fight opponents, the initial ones become allies, and go up against stronger and stronger enemies.


[/ QUOTE ]

I do not want fans to support a company's decision to license an incomplete series like in the case of Saint Seiya. This is not an open-end issue, ADV literally just cut it off. If a company can't get the license to complete the arc at the very least, they should past it up so that another company will have a chance.

If this is a Japanese studio issue where they are unwilling to negotiate, then imo I would rather not see it release. If the R1 companies hold their stance I think they will eventually let us release the entire series. I mean getting some money is better than noone licensing it at all, right? Too bad ADV got no ballz or were too greedy to get their hands on everything at the time. Regardless the reasons behind it, I blame ADV for such a shitty release.

[scorsesefan]

[ QUOTE ]
Fujishig said:..it's basically fight opponents, the initial ones become allies, and go up against stronger and stronger enemies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn it, that's what I was afraid of. I understand that there are fans of this show, but I'm glad I read this post before hitting the Buy button on TRSI. Thanks to you, Fujishig, I have saved some cash this go around.

[fujishig]

Well... I hope everyone else doesn't pile on me for influencing your decision... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

As others have said, there is a good amount of characterization, but I don't think anyone can argue that it boils down to those key shonen jump themes. It stands out as one of the first to do so, and hey, it's a kid's manga/anime after all. I still suggest checking out the manga.

As far as supporting an unfinished release... if this doesn't do well, I don't see ADV or anyone else trying it again. I'm disappointed that they didn't at least end it in the obvious place, but I'm hoping that someone sees that there is a fanbase for it, and at least considers bringing out the Hades arc with it's newer animation. I understand people need to stand up for their principles, though, and I'm certainly not double dipping just to show my support.

[Gold_guardian]

To everyone saying they don't want to support an unfinished release:

Adv has released at least one other thinpak that sold well enough for them to make the second season of that show. The same should hopefully apply here.

By sticking to your "princables." You might be screwing the rest of us over since there might not be enough sales to support the rest and finish the series.

Maybe we should strike a deal with the Super Gals fans. They buy Saint Seyia, We buy Super gals and two great anime sell enough to contiune.

To Skull leader one- Yes they face stronger and stronger enemies but what Shonen anime dosn't? I think they way Saint Seyia handles it is done pretty well since they forshadowed what they were building towards instead of having the stronger guys pop out of no where.

To everyone- Please buy this Set so that Saint Seiya will contiune in North america!!!

[Dragon_Shiryu]

While there are a lot of fights, I've always found that the focus is mainly on the characters rather than the action itself. The focus isn't getting stronger either (not to mention, that after 12 Temples the enemies are weaker than the gold saints, save for the gods). But each to his own /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[Nuriko]

[ QUOTE ]
Gold guardian said:
To everyone saying they don't want to support an unfinished release:

Adv has released at least one other thinpak that sold well enough for them to make the second season of that show. The same should hopefully apply here.

By sticking to your "princables." You might be screwing the rest of us over since there might not be enough sales to support the rest and finish the series.

To everyone- Please buy this Set so that Saint Seiya will contiune in North america!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Mind naming which series ADV released due to better sales? Your guess is as good as the next person if you don't have any proof.

Just because we don't support a companies decision in acquiring a half-ass license, we MIGHT be screw the fans? What a load of crap and I call it bullshit. In other words, you want us to be screwed first by buying a incomplete series in hopes of generating enough profit for ADV to acquire the rest?

You assumed that, that is the reason why ADV stopped licensing it. I find it hard to believe, other than the Japanese license holder will not give the R1 a complete series. Afterall, we are not talking about a shoujo series here. Saint Seiya is old but there are lots of old school anime coming out. Regardless the reasons, the facts still stand: ADV is not releasing a complete series. Enough said, if you still want to advocate their approach, fine. Just don't say we (who stick to our principles) might be screwing you guys without screwing us first.

What happens if we listen to you now and it still doesn't generate enough profit for ADV to acquire the rest? How about you paying for it first, and I'll repay you back afterwards when the whole series is released? I don't see how we are not being screw for buying this shitty release in the first place.

[fujishig]

I'd also like to know which series did well enough in thinpacks to change ADV's minds about picking up the rest of it. I hadn't heard that before.

Although I don't have exact sales data here, I'm pretty certain that older anime like St. Seiya and Dunbine did not do very well over here. Didn't the later volumes start dropping drastically in retail price? Seemed to me like signs of desperation. I know Saint Seiya was huge in foreign markets, and that there is at least a hardcore following here, but I'm not sure how big that following here is in the US. How many other "old school" anime are coming out? The edited cartoon bombed on Cartoon Network (some would argue that this was due to editing, but I think it was both editing and the age of the animation), and the toyline pretty much failed. With the mess that Toei caused with it's other properties, though, it could very well have nothing to do with sales. We might never know.

If St. Seiya thinpak does well, though, that would send a message to ADV or whomever owns the rights, that there is a viable market out there. At this point, I don't expect much... but I do hope that someone takes the gamble on the Hades OAVs.

Look at the bright side... we could've been stuck with the dub-only Knights of the Zodiac.

[Super Saiyajin Joshua]

I'm really torn on this subject too. It sounds like a show I would really like (I mean come on! Look at my username). But If I did buy the thinpack sets that come out and they never release any more after that it, would eat me up inside that I have an incomplete show sitting on my shelves. Man I'm really torn. Part of me is worried about missing out on a show that I'd probably like and another part of me is worried about getting into a show that I'll never get to see all of. I'm not into the R2-thing, I just can't afford it. So if it's not all coming out in R1 I just don't know if I can support it.

[Gold_guardian]

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
[ QUOTE ]
Gold guardian said:
To everyone saying they don't want to support an unfinished release:

Adv has released at least one other thinpak that sold well enough for them to make the second season of that show. The same should hopefully apply here.

By sticking to your "princables." You might be screwing the rest of us over since there might not be enough sales to support the rest and finish the series.

To everyone- Please buy this Set so that Saint Seiya will contiune in North america!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Mind naming which series ADV released due to better sales? Your guess is as good as the next person if you don't have any proof.

Just because we don't support a companies decision in acquiring a half-ass license, we MIGHT be screw the fans? What a load of crap and I call it bullshit. In other words, you want us to be screwed first by buying a incomplete series in hopes of generating enough profit for ADV to acquire the rest?

You assumed that, that is the reason why ADV stopped licensing it. I find it hard to believe, other than the Japanese license holder will not give the R1 a complete series. Afterall, we are not talking about a shoujo series here. Saint Seiya is old but there are lots of old school anime coming out. Regardless the reasons, the facts still stand: ADV is not releasing a complete series. Enough said, if you still want to advocate their approach, fine. Just don't say we (who stick to our principles) might be screwing you guys without screwing us first.

What happens if we listen to you now and it still doesn't generate enough profit for ADV to acquire the rest? How about you paying for it first, and I'll repay you back afterwards when the whole series is released? I don't see how we are not being screw for buying this shitty release in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]
Series that was saved by the Thinpack-
Kaleido Star

Series they said May be saved by the thinpack
Super gals

That's enough evidance right their to say that if the thinpacks sell we'll get more.

Maybe since is a big international hit the license fee is expensive thus they can only aford some of it at a time and not all with out taking a HUGE gamble.

Considering the collection goes for a mere 30 bones asking you to buy it isn't much. At least it's not one of those really expensive collections right?

What comes first the chicken or the egg. They need enough people to support it to bring out more. You want them to bring out more but if you aren't supporting it then that's less people and then they Can't bring more over.

It's a big catch 22. In this case I think it's better to have tried and failed (and thus have at least some of the series in your collection) then rather not tried at all. At least it won't put a big dent in your pocket book.

Worst comes to worse We'll find fansubs to see the rest *gasp* Not that I endorce such a thing if it's commercially avaialbe locally (r2s don't count cause of price)

[Nuriko]

[ QUOTE ]
Gold guardian said:

Series that was saved by the Thinpack-
Kaleido Star

Series they said May be saved by the thinpack
Super gals

That's enough evidance right their to say that if the thinpacks sell we'll get more.

Maybe since is a big international hit the license fee is expensive thus they can only aford some of it at a time and not all with out taking a HUGE gamble.

Considering the collection goes for a mere 30 bones asking you to buy it isn't much. At least it's not one of those really expensive collections right?

What comes first the chicken or the egg. They need enough people to support it to bring out more. You want them to bring out more but if you aren't supporting it then that's less people and then they Can't bring more over.

It's a big catch 22. In this case I think it's better to have tried and failed (and thus have at least some of the series in your collection) then rather not tried at all. At least it won't put a big dent in your pocket book.

Worst comes to worse We'll find fansubs to see the rest *gasp* Not that I endorce such a thing if it's commercially avaialbe locally (r2s don't count cause of price)

[/ QUOTE ]

You named the one I had in mind, which I can't even justify if it counts because IIRC ADV had already been dubbing or starting production into the second season. It was because profits from the first season wasn't desirable that they held off. "IF" that is true, Kaleido Star doesn't count, because they had it all along.

I don't think you can make the same comparison between Super Gals and Kaleido Star vs Saint Seiya. Both of those had a complete season. It's not like ADV stopped in the middle of a season or arc which Saint Seiya suffered from. Moreso, it was at the part of the climax.

As for old anime, Dubine, KOR, Urusei, MI, Gundam Zeta, etc were all released fully. Urusei Yatsura was from Animego (a SMALL company) and even Viz released HYD completely given that it's a shoujo series and what do we get after waiting all these years for Saint Seiya to surface on R1? A half-ass release!

Either way I do not support this type of license. It's a bit more understandable if ADV got all they can, but it is even worse if the sole reason for stopping right before the grand finale is becasue it was not meeting expectations. MB and CPM release weird anime sometimes but they are still complete. Even Votoms will be remaster and released in its entirety. I am confident that if I buy a release from other studios, I will get the rest! Is small companies can do it, ADV can't? You gotta be f****** kidding me. Don't even bring cost into the equation. Saint Seiay can't possibly cost more than every old school series that has been released thus far.

Also, how many series did ADV axed last year or cause a delay or decide to only offer through online and even then you hear fans complaining that they can't locate certain single discs of particular series? They have lost consumer's confidence in delivering a full series and more fans are waiting instead.

I love Saint Seiya just as much as the next person but after waiting for so long just to see it screw up this way ... simply blows. Although I do hate ADV more than others, this isn't targeted at them specifically. Any company who has the nerve to license it and release half of it is gonna hear it from the fans. Synch Point has been cursed to death for IGBAA, so will ADV for Saint Seiya.

Thank goodness I can understand Cantonese and buy the R3 release. I rather no one see it if it can't be shown with all its glory, ESPECIALLY the GOLD SAINTS ARC!

[PsychoGoatee]

I'll be buying the Saint Seiya sets for sure. This show is legendary. Personally, I figured ADV was just pacing themselves with this release. After they put out all of City Hunter in record time in sets, I wonder if the 5-disc sets method is how Saint Seiya should be released from now on. I'd buy it in any format of course. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

And how awesome is it that Hades OVAs are finally continuing? Nothing can stop this series.

[Nuriko]

[ QUOTE ]
Psycho Goatee said:
I'll be buying the Saint Seiya sets for sure. This show is legendary. Personally, I figured ADV was just pacing themselves with this release. After they put out all of City Hunter in record time in sets, I wonder if the 5-disc sets method is how Saint Seiya should be released from now on. I'd buy it in any format of course. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

And how awesome is it that Hades OVAs are finally continuing? Nothing can stop this series.

[/ QUOTE ]

As long as you know what you are getting into, more power to you for knowing that you'll be getting an incomplete series.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

*Smacks Nuriko*

I understand your point, but stop steering people away from it /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

*Still has hope that ADV will finish it*

And somebody has to license Hades, even if they don't finish the TV series. Hades is too awesome, with a fantastic story and mood, and looks too gorgeous to not have a DVD release over here.

[ohtori_akio]

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
As long as you know what you are getting into, more power to you for knowing that you'll be getting an incomplete series.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even though this would be an incomplete arc of the series, this release is probably the highest quality encode copy I've seen +it's a cheap set so this might actually be the best way to get those 60eps, incomplete or not!

Besides, people should not be stirred away from Saint Seiya, don't you know the rule? If you don't stop, I'll have to <font color="red">BLOODY ROSE </font> you.... /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[Nuriko]

[ QUOTE ]
Dragon Shiryu said:
*Smacks Nuriko*

I understand your point, but stop steering people away from it /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

*Still has hope that ADV will finish it*

And somebody has to license Hades, even if they don't finish the TV series. Hades is too awesome, with a fantastic story and mood, and looks too gorgeous to not have a DVD release over here.

[/ QUOTE ]

*dodges* /images/graemlins/tongue.gif YOU should be supporting me! I just give 2 examples: If ADV only released 3 of the 6 disks for Rahxephon, would you still tell people to get it?

Or realistically in the case of Hoop Days, they only released 2 dvds and stopped initially. Did anyone convince people to buy the first 2 dvds afterwards?

I hate to say it, but if I was watching it for the first time and I got to the end just to find out there's no ending, I would be so pissed beyond words. Saint Seiya could of been one of the best series they saw, but due to the fucked up release, their opinion might change because they never saw the ending of that arc. The ending of that arc is beautiful and has some of the most depressing scenes in all of Saint Seiya.

I love Saint Seiya just as much as the next person and it hurts for me to go against it, but I can't condone ADV for these kind of practices. I rather Saint Seiya take the hit than to see future releases suffer the same fate. I'm not going to buy or recommend this half ass release to support ADV's decision. That is my view and I stand by it.

Again, as long as people know what they are getting into the first place, I have no complaints if they still want to buy it. I simply will not support this release style or for any other series for that matter.

[Nuriko]

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
As long as you know what you are getting into, more power to you for knowing that you'll be getting an incomplete series.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even though this would be an incomplete arc of the series, this release is probably the highest quality encode copy I've seen +it's a cheap set so this might actually be the best way to get those 60eps, incomplete or not!

Besides, people should not be stirred away from Saint Seiya, don't you know the rule? If you don't stop, I'll have to <font color="red">BLOODY ROSE </font> you.... /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

roflmao, since when did your damn bloody rose kill anyone but yourself? I swear, the ordering is wrong. Assuming the strongest gold saint is reserved for last, Pices hardly qualifies. In fact I think he's the weakest one of all, lol.

Again, just because it is cheap, people still expect an ending which isn't provided in this case.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

I really understand. Especially since I always wanted to have the series on DVD, to replace my old taped from TV VHS, and the bootleggs, which have some of the most godawful subbing I've ever seen (as in "I learned fisting from Seiya", "Should I kill you or molest you slowly to hell", "You touched my squamas!", "Body Smell Attack!" (this last one is Deathmask's Seikishiki Meikai Ha)).

I bought every single volume on the street date. And trust me, I was really pissed of by it being left hanging. It's just I still have hope it'll be finished. Even if it might not be the case, I still want to see if good sales of the thinpacks might influence the licensing of the rest.

High price for the license I doubt. The series is getting released almost everywhere around the world right now, completely uncut. Hades has also already been licensed and being dubbed into various languages as well.

In the US market, it has to be seen if it's either Toei or ADV that's keeping it. Of course, "Knights of the Zodiac" greatly damaged the brand (I still can't believe they decided to do such a stupid version, especially with such a violent, serious and hotblooded series), and Toei might have been expecting it to be popular on TV.

Anyway, the best thing would be if ADV just answered this already. I really want to know if I should Import the rest, from any other country like Mexico or Spain, or if I should wait for their release. I'm willing to give them my support, because I'm happy with the uncut release (of what's been released anyway). I love the series so much I have to support it legally, and I will get all of it. I did it with the manga (imported it from Spain, because I won't support Viz's version. Altering anything is a no-no for me).

So, if anyone from ADV reads this... Would you at least honestly answer the situation?

[Super Saiyajin Joshua]

Dispite myself I picked up the first thin-pack today. I really hope that the whole show comes out in the end. It would really kill me to have a half completed show on my selves. It would really kill me too. I kinda have an OCD about these kinds of thing. Every manga/anime I've every bought I've bought all of, even if I didn't like it. I know I'm crazy but that's the way I am.

[Super Saiyajin Joshua]

My girlfriend and I just watched the first episode of this and we're already sold on it. Has anything been specifically said as to why the rest of it hasn't come out yet? I've heard "Maybe it wasn't making enough money" and I've heard "Toei pulled there license", but does anyone know for sure? I'd really like to see the rest of this one day.

[Dragon_Shiryu]

Nope. I've asked, but never get an answer. I guess you could try asking ADV as well.