Popularity of anime in America...

[LouiefromLodoss]

I'm not new into the anime world, as I've been into it for quite a while; thanks to this site /images/graemlins/happy.gif

The thing is that as most of you know the popularity in anime has increased incredibly.

I can't believe how big the section is in most stores, with tons of series to choose from, great packages and extras... and I'm even more suprised to see all kind of people (adults mostly) going into the section... and actually looking for all types of series and not just the most well known ones.

I just wanted for you to share your opinions on this. For you to fill me into how was it that anime became so popular... and point me if there's an article regarding this on the site (this I can't find).

Also, with SO many series out there don't studios loose on DVD sales. It can't be possible that with so many series available there's profit on most of them; or is it?

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
Louiefrom Lodoss said:
I'm not new into the anime world, as I've been into it for quite a while; thanks to this site /images/graemlins/happy.gif

The thing is that as most of you know the popularity in anime has increased incredibly.

I can't believe how big the section is in most stores, with tons of series to choose from, great packages and extras... and I'm even more suprised to see all kind of people (adults mostly) going into the section... and actually looking for all types of series and not just the most well known ones.

I just wanted for you to share your opinions on this. For you to fill me into how was it that anime became so popular... and point me if there's an article regarding this on the site (this I can't find).

Also, with SO many series out there don't studios loose on DVD sales. It can't be possible that with so many series available there's profit on most of them; or is it?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the biggest contributor to anime populartiy is Cartoon Network. Shows like FLCL, Ghost in the shell, and other that are popular with adult have increased the awareness of people. I myself got into anime after watching Tanchi on Cartoon network.

[LouiefromLodoss]

But there's also the fact that people are buying these DVDS... so it is not just a matter of liking but also of investment.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
Louiefrom Lodoss said:
But there's also the fact that people are buying these DVDS... so it is not just a matter of liking but also of investment.

[/ QUOTE ]
Investment? I don't think people buy DVD for investment. It very rare that DVd go up on price, with a few exemptions you will not be making an investment by buying anime DVD.

I know most people around here buy DVD because they like the series and they want to support it so more anime comes our way.

[LouiefromLodoss]

Sorry for using the wrong word.

What I meant is that people are actually buying it and not just downloading.

[aquapermanence]

[ QUOTE ]
Louiefrom Lodoss said:
I just wanted for you to share your opinions on this. For you to fill me into how was it that anime became so popular...

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't know myself, but I'm glad to see it. Used to be the anime section in Suncoast was a little shelf with DragonBall Z and Sailor Moon tapes; now it's a whole wall as big as the action or comedy or TV boxset section. It's probably a result of the series of small steps anime has made in the TV, movie, and home video markets, combined with the aging of fans who grew up on Americanized shows or who discovered anime in college.

Word of mouth I'm sure has helped a lot, along with exposure on TV stations like WB and Cartoon Network, and the recent move to showing more teenage- and adult-oriented shows on Adult Swim and G4. Online discussion and trading of fansubs has probably also increased the amount of anime that young people view and know about, and now there are also rental services like Netflix that'll deliver a ton of anime DVDs to your home for a low monthly fee.

And it's probably also a matter of shrewd licensing--companies like Geneon and VIZ and FUNimation aren't taking a shot in the dark when they license a show. They do their research and make sure what they get will have viewer interest. Or if they think it won't, they'll make sure not to spend too much on licensing, dubbing, advertising, and packaging to shove it out the door, gambling that they can turn a profit with a lesser fanbase on a modest investment.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, with SO many series out there don't studios loose on DVD sales. It can't be possible that with so many series available there's profit on most of them; or is it?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you can license 10 shows, break even on 9, and turn a profit on the last one, you win. Picking the shows to license is a calculated risk. Some shows that looked like sure-fire hits bombed because of poor treatment by the company (like Air Master and Slam Dunk) or lack of audience interest. Some shows became unexpected hits, like Knight Hunters. Other shows were initially released in relative obscurity, but drew attention with cheap boxsets or special edition releases that made them more desirable to value-conscious consumers. And a few titles generated buzz over a number of years, remaining consistent sellers while the majority would have fallen off after only a few months.

With the number of shows available today, companies are getting more choosy with what they license, meaning older shows and shows with very limited appeal are more likely to get skipped over despite fan interest. Given what's been coming out it'll probably be a long time before we see sports epics like Touch or Yawara on these shores, and even a hit like Monster may take a while thanks to its length and content. No robots, no samurai, and no superpowers means a show has to survive on the strength of its writing, its characters, and its production values--while also competing with all of the domestic dramas and comedies that have the advantage of network TV airings and syndication. One might think, for example, that a teenage girl's show like Boys Over Flowers would corner the market for high-school romance, but the market for that kind of show just isn't there. Teenage girls are used to watching Buffy and 90210 and raunchy movies, and most stories that take romantic love seriously are considered throwbacks to corny 50's musicals or adaptations of books for little kids. But with the growing number of young girls reading manga, an audience of children is being raised to take interest in this kind of story. Titles like Peach Girl and Tenjho Tenge have been the subject of controversy thanks to decisions made as to the suitability of these books for young readers.

It's going to come down to a matter of market share, just as TV shows compete for ratings share. Casual viewers can only buy so much, and they'll gravitate toward what they know and what they've seen. If a niche isn't big enough, a niche title won't be worth licensing.

[something]

More popularity = more anime = better prices (generally) = better releases (generally) = life is good.

Thats my take.

[Leon_Belmont]

Hell yeah it's popular. It may not be mainstream, but I'm surprised at some of the shit titles that get licensed nowadays. As long as you can wade out the good from the bad, it truly is an awesome, awesome time to be a fan.

Trust me, the VHS days sucked. I remember my frustration at Ronin Warriors getting pulled off the air when I finally discovered it on local tv. Now if that crap were to happen, drop some dough, get a nicer product, problem solved.

[XenoCrisis0153]

There are also a couple magazines dedicated solely to anime/manga. And now we even have tv networks that air anime 24/7 (ADV's Anime Network and soon Funimation, I believe, will have their own. If you have Starz On-Demand, they have a section called Anime Selects).

[yumy]

There is anime at many stores now, but it's always Family Guy or mayyybe Inuyasha or Full metal alchemist. Frankly I really don't care since I can't stand those genres. Most of the true quality anime will remain unknown to the masses, which is the way it should be. Nothing popular enough to be in a general store like a Walmart is good, because that means the masses like it.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
yumy said:
There is anime at many stores now, but it's always Family Guy or mayyybe Inuyasha or Full metal alchemist. Frankly I really don't care since I can't stand those genres. Most of the true quality anime will remain unknown to the masses, which is the way it should be. Nothing popular enough to be in a general store like a Walmart is good, because that means the masses like it .

[/ QUOTE ]
Family guy IS NOT ANIME! you mean to tell me that for example, GITS is bad because the masses like. There are many shows that are liked by the masses and are good. Your logic doesn't make sense. That is being elite. BE grateful that the masses buy the shows you don't like, so you can keep getting whatever niche anime you like.

[fantasydewdrop]

[ QUOTE ]
yumy said:
Nothing popular enough to be in a general store like a Walmart is good, because that means the masses like it.

[/ QUOTE ]So all the Studio Ghibli movies are crap, then? Wow, I never realized that the charictarizations and stories in those titles were so poor. I saw Grave of the Fireflies in a local Wal-Mart for over a couple of years. Wow, that one must be so redicuously mainstream that it sucks beyond all reason and is far worse than the more obscure Trouble Chocolate.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
KasiTL said:
[ QUOTE ]
yumy said:
Nothing popular enough to be in a general store like a Walmart is good, because that means the masses like it.

[/ QUOTE ]So all the Studio Ghibli movies are crap, then? Wow, I never realized that the charictarizations and stories in those titles were so poor. I saw Grave of the Fireflies in a local Wal-Mart for over a couple of years. Wow, that one must be so redicuously mainstream that it sucks beyond all reason and is far worse than the more obscure Trouble Chocolate.

[/ QUOTE ]
Forgive him, I didn't notice he is new and I should have noticed it before I responded to his post.

[Vicserr]

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
[ QUOTE ]
KasiTL said:
[ QUOTE ]
yumy said:
Nothing popular enough to be in a general store like a Walmart is good, because that means the masses like it.

[/ QUOTE ]So all the Studio Ghibli movies are crap, then? Wow, I never realized that the charictarizations and stories in those titles were so poor. I saw Grave of the Fireflies in a local Wal-Mart for over a couple of years. Wow, that one must be so redicuously mainstream that it sucks beyond all reason and is far worse than the more obscure Trouble Chocolate.

[/ QUOTE ]
Forgive him, I didn't notice he is new and I should have noticed it before I responded to his post.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish my local walmart would treat me that good... The only anime titles they stock up are the Signature eds of Hellsing 1 and Akira... and the random Yugioh or InuYasha dvd /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif

althought I do prefer being part of the lunatic fringe instead of mainstream /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[indigo0086]

Yumy = when emo meets anime.

*screams* I DOON'T LIIIIKE IIIIT, BECAUSE YOU LIIIIIKE....IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!!!! /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

[yumy]

I hardly consider GITS to be mainstream in America. In fact, I can't think of a single anime i would consider mainstream that is not televised.

Anime is a general term for anything...animated, so yes family guy is anime technically. I used to be offended by that too, but the fact is that there are many different genres of anime, and there's nothing wrong with disliking several genres, you can still be an anime fan. Like I said before, I will never see an anime I enjoyed in a Walmart.

[Isuzu Inugami]

[ QUOTE ]
yumy said:

In fact, I can't think of a single anime i would consider mainstream that is not televised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm.... Ranma 1/2? The movies people always recommend and shouldn't? (Wicked City, Urutsukidoji, Ninja Scroll) But I'll grant you most "mainstream" stuff does end up televised these days.

[ QUOTE ]
Anime is a general term for anything...animated, so yes family guy is anime technically.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is indeed the Japanese understanding of the term. However, this site and most of its denizens are on the other side of that cultural divide, and if only to be clear on what we're all here talking about, we use the American understanding of the term; namely that anime is Japanese (or, possibly, stylistically similar Asian) animation.

RE Wallmart, I have no idea what their selection is like, but I expect a few good things have to creep into it, if only by chance.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
yumy said:
Anime is a general term for anything...animated, so yes family guy is anime technically.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh, and you damn well know that that's not the definition under discussion on these boards. No more stupid off-topic terminology debates, please.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
yumy said:
I hardly consider GITS to be mainstream in America. In fact, I can't think of a single anime i would consider mainstream that is not televised.

Anime is a general term for anything...animated, so yes family guy is anime technically. I used to be offended by that too, but the fact is that there are many different genres of anime, and there's nothing wrong with disliking several genres, you can still be an anime fan. Like I said before, I will never see an anime I enjoyed in a Walmart.

[/ QUOTE ]Dude! GITS is TELEVISED! Maybe you don't have cable and can't watch it! Both seasons of GITS are currently being shown on Cartoon network. Do some research before you make your comments please. There is so much that can be forgiven because you are new.

The Term anime is specially used for "Cartoons" from Japan to put it in simple terms you can understand. Now if you had used the Terms "cartoon" or "Animation" instead of "anime", then we could live with you including Family guy, you must agree that family guys is not animation from Japan. If you won't believe me, watch an ADV DVD and at the beginning they tell you what Anime is.

The original poster was talking about Animation from Japan in particular.

[Isuzu Inugami]

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
If you won't believe me, watch an ADV DVD and at the beginning they tell you what Anime is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anime is several decibels LOUDER THAN THE REST OF THE DISC! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Philemon]

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
If you won't believe me, watch an ADV DVD and at the beginning [it] tell[s] you what Anime is.

[/ QUOTE ]

The ADV introduction, in my humble opinion, is quite insulting to my intelligence. It reminds me of the promos for the ADV's Anime Network.

[fujishig]

The advent of DVD has certainly made a big impact. Not only are the pricepoints now much friendlier to the general buyer, but you can include BOTH dub and sub tracks on one disk, so you don't have to try to sell two different tapes to two different audiences.

It's also true that it's been infiltrating our culture (well, I grew up in Hawaii, so it was already ingrained there), and as the kids who grew up watching Dragonball and Pokemon and Gundam Wing grow up, they begin to have disposable income, learn more about anime, and actually buy this stuff (even as the generation that grew up on Robotech and Star Blazers and Tranzor Z and Force Five did before them). A few years ago, I remember kids were wearing shirts with Rurouni Kenshin characters on them (though I'm sure most had no idea what they were wearing). The internet makes learning about anime so much easier than having to join a club in college or track down an issue of Animag. And we can't discount the major push the American distributors have been making, with not only syndication deals but licensing and marketing. Ironically, having mainstream places like Best Buy and Walmart carry anime dvds is a huge step in expanding the fanbase.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
Philemon said:
[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
If you won't believe me, watch an ADV DVD and at the beginning [it] tell[s] you what Anime is.

[/ QUOTE ]

The ADV introduction, in my humble opinion, is quite insulting to my intelligence. It reminds me of the promos for the ADV's Anime Network.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, it is aimed for people that don't know what anime is.
/images/graemlins/wink.gif, so don't feel insulted by it!

[lostnomad84]

[ QUOTE ]
Fujishig said:
The internet makes learning about anime so much easier than having to join a club in college or track down an issue of Animag. And we can't discount the major push the American distributors have been making, with not only syndication deals but licensing and marketing. Ironically, having mainstream places like Best Buy and Walmart carry anime dvds is a huge step in expanding the fanbase.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree. My college's anime club is 2 semesters away from approaching it's 10th year anniversery and things have dramatically changed in those 10 years. It was once the source for series that people can now easily view with the click of a mouse or go to a local Best Buy to buy for a simple $50. Yet our club continues to be one of the biggest one in the South Bay. I think it mainly has to do with anime fans just simply looking for anime fans to meet and just have a good time. But I easily know there could be so many more people in that room at our meetings. The reason why there isn't is simply because people can now easily access the series, the inconvience with schedules, or they just simply don't like what we are showing this semester.

10 Years ago fandom was at the local college level at a very niched level. Today it has exploded to a niched underground group of fans that are just slowly expanding by the minute. When you create anime fans at a young age they will take their appreciation for anime with them their whole lives. Eventually it will be accepted by society as a whole. The samething happened with video games starting in the 80's and it did not explode into a mainstream enertainment till 3 years ago. I believe anime will one day go mainstream but it will take another 10-15 years at least.

[The Pirate Queen]

[ QUOTE ]
yumy said:
I hardly consider GITS to be mainstream in America. In fact, I can't think of a single anime i would consider mainstream that is not televised.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ghost in the Shell, both the TV series and the movie (first one - I'm not sure about the second, but it did get play in theatres), have been televised in the US, and are about as mainstream as they come. When you ask Average Joe about anime, they're going to think Pokemon, animated porn, or Ghost in the Shell/Akira.

[indigo0086]

[ QUOTE ]
yumy said:
I hardly consider GITS to be mainstream in America.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's probably not even main stream in Japan. There are few that are. I'm sure you can ask the average person on the street what Stand Alone Complex is and they wouldn't recognize it, maybe if you said Ghost in the Shell First, just maybe.

And let the guy use his own defenition of Anime, if it gets you guys' panties in a bunch, it's more fun to watch. Get a life sheesh.

[Starwind Amada]

[ QUOTE ]
indigo0086 said:
And let the guy use his own defenition of Anime, if it gets you guys' panties in a bunch, it's more fun to watch. Get a life sheesh.

[/ QUOTE ]

You first. When someone uses the wrong definition of anime, he needs to be told. You don't like it, tough.

[k_chan]

[ QUOTE ]
Hot Otak said:
Hell yeah it's popular. It may not be mainstream, but I'm surprised at some of the shit titles that get licensed nowadays. As long as you can wade out the good from the bad, it truly is an awesome, awesome time to be a fan.

Trust me, the VHS days sucked. I remember my frustration at Ronin Warriors getting pulled off the air when I finally discovered it on local tv. Now if that crap were to happen, drop some dough, get a nicer product, problem solved.

[/ QUOTE ]

i remember those painful vhs days. my first anime vhs was Burn Up!, followed by Iczelion /images/graemlins/happy.gif then, soon as anime started hitting dvd, vhs was gonegonegone. now, speaking of ronin warriors, PLEASE bandai, me want another shot at buying the ronin warriors box set /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[Captain Impulse]

[ QUOTE ]
k-chan said:
i remember those painful vhs days. my first anime vhs was Burn Up!, followed by Iczelion /images/graemlins/happy.gif then, soon as anime started hitting dvd, vhs was gonegonegone. now, speaking of ronin warriors, PLEASE bandai, me want another shot at buying the ronin warriors box set /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Speaking of Iczelion, someone (CPM?) needs to resurrect that and plop it onto a DVD, stat. With all the other Iczer releases of late, I don't like the feeling of incompleteness it gives me.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
Starwind Amada said:
[ QUOTE ]
indigo0086 said:
And let the guy use his own defenition of Anime, if it gets you guys' panties in a bunch, it's more fun to watch. Get a life sheesh.

[/ QUOTE ]

You first. When someone uses the wrong definition of anime, he needs to be told. You don't like it, tough.

[/ QUOTE ]
If he wants to see how right he is, go to any online store or video rent store and go to the Anime section if they have one. See if they have american cartoons listed as anime. They might only have a section, with Cartoon movies. My local video store doesn't have an Anime section per say, just Cartoon & animation (they might be calling anime animation). Netflix calls its Cartoon section, Anime & Animation, thus they are two different things.

[Lego]

Lets get it all out on the table...

I do agree that anime has carved a market for itself in the US. We have decent anime sections in Best Buy(a major retail chain), and other stores. We have anime on TV on many channels, and even a whole TV channel dedicated to anime. Manga makes the top 100 book sale list now and then, and manga is a huge market.

But I believe there is still some things to over come. Look what happened a while back when some little girl(think she was like 12 or 13) checked out Peach Girl from her public library. The parents went jumped on it and it hit the local news as comics that showed "rape, drugs, and sex". Personally, I still think that a large portion of the US still views anime as one of two things:

1.Animated porn with little substance
2.Cartoons from Japan that are often violent and etc

I mean just tell your group of friends randomly that you bought manga, or tell them about the newest shows, you'll either get:

"zomg anime sucks"
"zomg you watch cartoons"

So while I think we've came a long way, you still have that area of people that buy into the stereotype that all anime and manga is pornographic.

To me though, the biggest problem is a simple one. Anime is of course animated. So when someone sees something animated, a large portion of the time they'll go "oh, this is for kids". I wouldn't be surprised if you had some news station or some parent group get up in arms because of anime. I mean all it's going to take is one dumbass parent to buy their kids a copy of something risque, thinking that because it's a cartoon it's fine.

Anime is seen by many as just a different type of cartoon. Which can be true to a point. But the big thing for me is when you see something like Bambi next to Love Hina on the shelf at Walmart.

[Captain Impulse]

[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
Anime is seen by many as just a different type of cartoon. Which can be true to a point. But the big thing for me is when you see something like Bambi next to Love Hina on the shelf at Walmart.

[/ QUOTE ]

You saw Love Hina next to Bambi on a shelf at Wal-Mart? Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse?

[Lego]

I've seen GITS(the first movie) next to Dora the Explorer DVD's at Wal Mart.

[Captain Impulse]

I'm surprised the half-exposed breasts on the cover of Ghost in the Shell didn't prompt Wal-mart's Secret Censorship Police to take action.

But then again, they are selling Gantz Season 1. WTF?

[indigo0086]

[ QUOTE ]
Starwind Amada said:
[ QUOTE ]
indigo0086 said:
And let the guy use his own defenition of Anime, if it gets you guys' panties in a bunch, it's more fun to watch. Get a life sheesh.

[/ QUOTE ]

You first. When someone uses the wrong definition of anime, he needs to be told. You don't like it, tough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does gorilla impersonation. "grrr, anime not americanime, grrr"

I know it's redundant, but get a life.

[k_chan]

[ QUOTE ]
Captain Impulse said:
[ QUOTE ]
k-chan said:
i remember those painful vhs days. my first anime vhs was Burn Up!, followed by Iczelion /images/graemlins/happy.gif then, soon as anime started hitting dvd, vhs was gonegonegone. now, speaking of ronin warriors, PLEASE bandai, me want another shot at buying the ronin warriors box set /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Speaking of Iczelion, someone (CPM?) needs to resurrect that and plop it onto a DVD, stat. With all the other Iczer releases of late, I don't like the feeling of incompleteness it gives me.

[/ QUOTE ]

ditto. especially since Iczelion is the best of the whole Iczer universe, imo at least /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[LouiefromLodoss]

Lego does have a point there.

There's no way to please people. If they dislike/hate cartoons they're going to think that ainime is for children. And then, you show them something more adult (that will probably require the use of some blood, partial nudity or deep dialogues and situations) and they feel disgusted by it. Because "cartoons are not supposed to be that way".


Plus, it doesn't help that videostores carry either: children stuff or hentai... like there's no middle point. One the video stores in my city only carry hentai in their section; and with the amount of anime available today there's no excuse for not bringing "regular" anime stuff.



I don't know if you've seen it but I'd like that anime gets a special coverage in the news so people can understand what it is all about.


By the way, I'd also like to know the perspective of Japan; how do people in Japan feel about the popularity of anime here?

[Lego]

Wow, that post of mine is horrible grammar wise(was sleepy). That is a interesting question though. I've always wondered how the creators themselves feel, or Japanese anime fans feel about anime becoming popular in the US(if anything).

[kusanagi-sama]

[ QUOTE ]
Louiefrom Lodoss said:
Lego does have a point there.

There's no way to please people. If they dislike/hate cartoons they're going to think that ainime is for children. And then, you show them something more adult (that will probably require the use of some blood, partial nudity or deep dialogues and situations) and they feel disgusted by it. Because "cartoons are not supposed to be that way".


Plus, it doesn't help that videostores carry either: children stuff or hentai... like there's no middle point. One the video stores in my city only carry hentai in their section; and with the amount of anime available today there's no excuse for not bringing "regular" anime stuff.



I don't know if you've seen it but I'd like that anime gets a special coverage in the news so people can understand what it is all about.


By the way, I'd also like to know the perspective of Japan; how do people in Japan feel about the popularity of anime here?

[/ QUOTE ]

You could always show someone something like Scrapped Princess first, or perhaps Angelic Layer, and then show them stuff that has more to it.

[Shsway]

For me, I think that Cartoon Network, specifically their first few Toonami blocks of programming, were the most responsible. DragonBall, Sailor Moon, Pokemon and Tenchi Muyo!, in that order, where the frontrunners. Things sort of took off, I believe, when other folks like myself discovered that the stories were Japanese originals, and so went looking on the internet for more of the same. Viz, Dark Horse and to a lesser extent, TOKYOPOP (then in the form of Mixx?) took care of the manga/print side of things.

It's hard to say just were the "blow-up" point actually occured. I think that the industry just kept getting bigger and bigger, and with a progress that surprised many, when the head-ups noticed how dedicated and addicted some groups, like the Eva fans, are. Then Kenshin, Trigun, etc. start airing, again on CN, which pretty much brings us to where we are now.

[Starwind Amada]

[ QUOTE ]
Captain Impulse said:
I'm surprised the half-exposed breasts on the cover of Ghost in the Shell didn't prompt Wal-mart's Secret Censorship Police to take action.

But then again, they are selling Gantz Season 1. WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the Samurai X box set at Wal-Mart. I even showed the clerk the content description just for the hell of it and he said, "Man, this is one fucked up store for them to be putting that next to Barney's Hide and Seek Party DVDs."

[Nyanyaan]

[ QUOTE ]
Starwind Amada said:
[ QUOTE ]
Captain Impulse said:
I'm surprised the half-exposed breasts on the cover of Ghost in the Shell didn't prompt Wal-mart's Secret Censorship Police to take action.

But then again, they are selling Gantz Season 1. WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the Samurai X box set at Wal-Mart. I even showed the clerk the content description just for the hell of it and he said, "Man, this is one fucked up store for them to be putting that next to Barney's Hide and Seek Party DVDs."

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless of course Barney is out 'seeking' things at his party he shouldnt be.

[aquapermanence]

[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
I've always wondered how the creators themselves feel, or Japanese anime fans feel about anime becoming popular in the US(if anything).

[/ QUOTE ]

The common story is, Japanese guests at conventions and whatnot are often surprised and humbled to discover that their works are not only well-known, but eagerly followed by fans in the U.S.

/images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif I recall I was at a Production I.G / Star Child / King Records panel a couple of Otakons ago. They showed the opening animations from a number of well-known shows, including Utena, Sorcerer Hunters, and Battle Programmer Shirase (which had aired in Japan only a few months before, and is still not licensed in R1). They were surprised that some of us actually recognized the show.

[Vicserr]

[ QUOTE ]
Nyanyaan said:
[ QUOTE ]
Starwind Amada said:
[ QUOTE ]
Captain Impulse said:
I'm surprised the half-exposed breasts on the cover of Ghost in the Shell didn't prompt Wal-mart's Secret Censorship Police to take action.

But then again, they are selling Gantz Season 1. WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw the Samurai X box set at Wal-Mart. I even showed the clerk the content description just for the hell of it and he said, "Man, this is one fucked up store for them to be putting that next to Barney's Hide and Seek Party DVDs."

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless of course Barney is out 'seeking' things at his party he shouldnt be.

[/ QUOTE ]

remember guys...Wally-mart pocily on dvd/videos is different that the the one for music /images/graemlins/stunned1.gif

and maybe Barney was looking for Geishas for his party /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[WeirdlyGruesome]

[ QUOTE ]
Fujishig said:
The advent of DVD has certainly made a big impact. Not only are the pricepoints now much friendlier to the general buyer, but you can include BOTH dub and sub tracks on one disk, so you don't have to try to sell two different tapes to two different audiences.

It's also true that it's been infiltrating our culture (well, I grew up in Hawaii, so it was already ingrained there), and as the kids who grew up watching Dragonball and Pokemon and Gundam Wing grow up, they begin to have disposable income, learn more about anime, and actually buy this stuff (even as the generation that grew up on Robotech and Star Blazers and Tranzor Z and Force Five did before them). A few years ago, I remember kids were wearing shirts with Rurouni Kenshin characters on them (though I'm sure most had no idea what they were wearing). The internet makes learning about anime so much easier than having to join a club in college or track down an issue of Animag. And we can't discount the major push the American distributors have been making, with not only syndication deals but licensing and marketing. Ironically, having mainstream places like Best Buy and Walmart carry anime dvds is a huge step in expanding the fanbase.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good post. I like the "infiltrating our culture" thing. All this shouldn't be a surprise. The industry has had a steady growth in the U.S. This has been a "two steps forward, one step back" thing for at least the past 20 years if not more.

[KShinjo]

[ QUOTE ]
Louiefrom Lodoss said:
By the way, I'd also like to know the perspective of Japan; how do people in Japan feel about the popularity of anime here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the perspective is - "amused".

From what I can tell, they find it interesting that anime is popular with Americans. Perhaps find it odd as well. In a way the closest analogy I can think of is how we would view Japanese youth's infatuation with American hip-hop culture.

[fujishig]

[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:


To me though, the biggest problem is a simple one. Anime is of course animated. So when someone sees something animated, a large portion of the time they'll go "oh, this is for kids". I wouldn't be surprised if you had some news station or some parent group get up in arms because of anime. I mean all it's going to take is one dumbass parent to buy their kids a copy of something risque, thinking that because it's a cartoon it's fine.

Anime is seen by many as just a different type of cartoon. Which can be true to a point. But the big thing for me is when you see something like Bambi next to Love Hina on the shelf at Walmart.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your post, but it seems to me like the American public has a double-standard here. For years, American shows like South Park, Family Guy, American Dad, King of the Hill and even in later years the Simpsons have shown that there is an adult audience for animated shows. In fact, I'd argue that most of the content for American Dad, Family Guy, and South Park in particular are not suitable for children at all. Granted, it may not be as explicit as hentai or even show some nudity like most anime, but the content is there.

Despite this, I would argue that anime has maintained a huge deal of popularity, much more than I would have expected a few decades ago. For a similar example, look at videogames: that's an industry that is thought of as being for kids by a lot of the general public, and the older generation especially can't understand it as anything more than a waste of time (which, truthfully, it often is, but hey, it's entertainment). It's got problems in the public perception, like GTA's adult content, but a lot of that is just political posturing (c'mon, stuff in God of War is equally shocking, yet nobody's picked up on that... yet). And yet the videogame industry is huge, and I'd consider that to be mainstream. And yet ask the guy on the street who Megaman is, and he probably wouldn't know.

[LouiefromLodoss]

Now that I remember, I had a large group of Japanese friends in college.

At one point I mentioned them anime, and they were like : "we don't watch it". I was quite surprised, just to realize later that they in fact watched it. Why would they lie about it? No idea. More so, when later on they didn't even hide it.

Also, you had to see their faces when I showed them shojo anime. Once I did and they had these faces of disgust.... it was incredible. /images/graemlins/knowital.gif



By the way, going back to America. /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif Has anyone here had an experience where you've shown anime to a person that used to dislike/hate it but after watching it has been amazed, not by the animation, but by the story? And finally they see the light and can't believe that "cartoons" can be that deep or complex?

[Captain Impulse]

Recently I had the pleasure (once again) of hosting six Japanese exchange students (3 guys, 3 girls) in my home for a couple weeks. Needles to say that when they saw my anime collection, they were...stunned. /images/graemlins/knowital.gif These kids were late middle school/early high school students, so many of the titles from "earlier eras" they did not recognize (such as Cowboy Bebop), but they did point out several titles that they enjoyed and wanted to watch, including:

The Gokusen
G.T.O.
Cromartie High School (my God did they laugh at this one)
Ultramaniac (the girls, anyway)
Urusei Yatsura ("so old!", they said)

...alas, they looked for Naruto and Bleach but couldn't find them, of course.

[aquapermanence]

[ QUOTE ]
Louiefrom Lodoss said:
Has anyone here had an experience where you've shown anime to a person that used to dislike/hate it but after watching it has been amazed, not by the animation, but by the story?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've got a friend with a very high standard for storytelling. He's given his grudging approval to a very small handful of shows. When I suggest watching anime (or even anything that might sound like it might be an anime, from the title), he suggests we do something else.

/images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif It's good to know a harsh critic like that. It helps me keep my own fandom in perspective.

To give an example, he didn't like Cowboy Bebop after Faye was introduced. He just wasn't able to accept that Spike and Jet were being so tolerant of her nonsense.

[Captain Impulse]

[ QUOTE ]
aquapermanence said:
To give an example, he didn't like Cowboy Bebop after Faye was introduced. He just wasn't able to accept that Spike and Jet were being so tolerant of her nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not normal, that one. Spike and Jet are guys. Faye has boobs, and wears very little clothing. Not hard to see why they put up with her. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
Captain Impulse said:
[ QUOTE ]
aquapermanence said:
To give an example, he didn't like Cowboy Bebop after Faye was introduced. He just wasn't able to accept that Spike and Jet were being so tolerant of her nonsense.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not normal, that one. Spike and Jet are guys. Faye has boobs, and wears very little clothing. Not hard to see why they put up with her. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I was going to say that but you got to it first. The only reason men put up with women is because they look pretty, they are soft and smell good. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[Lego]

I had some time to think about this topic more, and thought of something interesting. Now I'll be a anime fan for a long time. I could possibly see myself being a fan till I'm a old man(70's or 80's). But something that has been on my mind, is something that we're starting to see in the US a lot.

We see so many shows now that adopt the "anime" or "manga" art style. Things like Teen Titans and etc. While I have no problem with this, as the creators can draw their characters any way they want, part of me is thinking "wait, hold on a minute".

To me, it almost seems like the "anime" or "manga" style is becoming generic in some places. For example my friend knows "anime" as a style of drawing characters or things, but not as a genre for series/films/and etc. Sometimes you have to wonder if all this anime influence in regular, US produced shows is a good thing.

[Captain Impulse]

[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
I had some time to think about this topic more, and thought of something interesting. Now I'll be a anime fan for a long time. I could possibly see myself being a fan till I'm a old man(70's or 80's). But something that has been on my mind, is something that we're starting to see in the US a lot.

We see so many shows now that adopt the "anime" or "manga" art style. Things like Teen Titans and etc. While I have no problem with this, as the creators can draw their characters any way they want, part of me is thinking "wait, hold on a minute".

To me, it almost seems like the "anime" or "manga" style is becoming generic in some places. For example my friend knows "anime" as a style of drawing characters or things, but not as a genre for series/films/and etc. Sometimes you have to wonder if all this anime influence in regular, US produced shows is a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather U.S. shows retain their own style of creativity rather than emulating another culture; keep your peanut butter out of my chocolate, and vice versa. They don't always taste great together.

[XenoCrisis0153]

[ QUOTE ]
Fujishig said:
I agree with your post, but it seems to me like the American public has a double-standard here. For years, American shows like South Park, Family Guy, American Dad, King of the Hill and even in later years the Simpsons have shown that there is an adult audience for animated shows. In fact, I'd argue that most of the content for American Dad, Family Guy, and South Park in particular are not suitable for children at all. Granted, it may not be as explicit as hentai or even show some nudity like most anime, but the content is there.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hopefully people who aren't even fans of these shows realize at least that they have adult content. I mean, if it was for kids, they wouldn't be airing at 8pm and later. That should be an obvious given for most people, yet surprisingly, it isn't.

[ QUOTE ]
For a similar example, look at videogames: that's an industry that is thought of as being for kids by a lot of the general public, and the older generation especially can't understand it as anything more than a waste of time (which, truthfully, it often is, but hey, it's entertainment). It's got problems in the public perception, like GTA's adult content, but a lot of that is just political posturing (c'mon, stuff in God of War is equally shocking, yet nobody's picked up on that... yet). And yet the videogame industry is huge, and I'd consider that to be mainstream. And yet ask the guy on the street who Megaman is, and he probably wouldn't know.

[/ QUOTE ]
An even better example... I was talking to my aunt's boyfriend (and he's only 40, plus he grew up in Los Angeles, so I figured he was pretty modern as far as technology) and the topic of videogames came up. He asked me how I spend my free time and I told him "I spend some nights playing video games for 4 or 5 hours at time." He looked at me in shock and replied "don't you get bored doing the same thing over and over for so long??" He had assumed that video games were still like pac-man and spaced-invaders where it's just puzzles over and over. I had to explain to him that video games today are story-oriented, some taking 50, 75, 100+ hours to play through completely just ONCE.

[Starwind Amada]

[ QUOTE ]
Captain Impulse said:
[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
I had some time to think about this topic more, and thought of something interesting. Now I'll be a anime fan for a long time. I could possibly see myself being a fan till I'm a old man(70's or 80's). But something that has been on my mind, is something that we're starting to see in the US a lot.

We see so many shows now that adopt the "anime" or "manga" art style. Things like Teen Titans and etc. While I have no problem with this, as the creators can draw their characters any way they want, part of me is thinking "wait, hold on a minute".

To me, it almost seems like the "anime" or "manga" style is becoming generic in some places. For example my friend knows "anime" as a style of drawing characters or things, but not as a genre for series/films/and etc. Sometimes you have to wonder if all this anime influence in regular, US produced shows is a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather U.S. shows retain their own style of creativity rather than emulating another culture; keep your peanut butter out of my chocolate, and vice versa. They don't always taste great together.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I heard there's an upcoming Teen Titans movie called "Trouble in Tokyo" or something. The bastards must think "LOL, TOKYO!!!! ANIME!!!!! ZOMGRATINGS11111"

American animation is always on the decline. Slowly but surely, it's succumbing to the superiority of anime. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[fujishig]

[ QUOTE ]
Captain Impulse said:
[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
I had some time to think about this topic more, and thought of something interesting. Now I'll be a anime fan for a long time. I could possibly see myself being a fan till I'm a old man(70's or 80's). But something that has been on my mind, is something that we're starting to see in the US a lot.

We see so many shows now that adopt the "anime" or "manga" art style. Things like Teen Titans and etc. While I have no problem with this, as the creators can draw their characters any way they want, part of me is thinking "wait, hold on a minute".

To me, it almost seems like the "anime" or "manga" style is becoming generic in some places. For example my friend knows "anime" as a style of drawing characters or things, but not as a genre for series/films/and etc. Sometimes you have to wonder if all this anime influence in regular, US produced shows is a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather U.S. shows retain their own style of creativity rather than emulating another culture; keep your peanut butter out of my chocolate, and vice versa. They don't always taste great together.

[/ QUOTE ]

Err... for decades, now, we've had American cartoons coming from Japanese companies... it just wasn't widely publicized. And I'm not just talking about stuff like Robotech or Star Blazers that was made for the Japanese market first. See Transformers, and I think even the pre-Sigma-Six 80's GI Joe. Creators and artists usually develop a unique style, but are heavily influenced by what they grow up with and what they like. If we have a generation of US animators and storyboard artists that grow up being influenced by anime, what's wrong with that? Wasn't Tezuka (and i'm sure other Japanese creators) influenced by Disney?

For that matter, what is the "US style of creativity" in cartoons? Are we talking the Flash animation of the cartoon network shows, the athromorphic loony toons style, the Bruce Timm Batman the Animated Series style, the korean-animated X-men cartoon style, or what?

[Shsway]

[ QUOTE ]
Fujishig said:
[ QUOTE ]
Captain Impulse said:
[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
Sometimes you have to wonder if all this anime influence in regular, US produced shows is a good thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd rather U.S. shows retain their own style of creativity rather than emulating another culture; keep your peanut butter out of my chocolate, and vice versa.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we have a generation of US animators and storyboard artists that grow up being influenced by anime, what's wrong with that? Wasn't Tezuka (and i'm sure other Japanese creators) influenced by Disney?

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct, and there's nothing "wrong" about this scenario per se: but there is the concern of creativity dying out, in the wake of people who emulate, cover or outright copy, rather than bothering to think of/produce something new. It happens with everything else, like novels, music and comics, for example. The amount of MIC or OEL that is beginning to trickle into the market, plus the fact that so many people seem to aspire to be "manga" type artists (I'm thinking of college art students mostly), is kind of tragic to me personally. Again, there is nothing wrong with looking to an influence, but if you don't at least try to do your own thing, you get lots of watered down versions of existing works and material. That's always a sad state of affairs, though hardly ever "wrong".

[ QUOTE ]
For that matter, what is the "US style of creativity" in cartoons? Are we talking the Flash animation of the cartoon network shows, the athromorphic loony toons style, the Bruce Timm Batman the Animated Series style, the korean-animated X-men cartoon style, or what?

[/ QUOTE ]

When I think of American animation, I automatically think Warner Brothers, Hanna Barbera and yes, Disney. More their earlier stuff than anything past, oh, 1994 or 1995. That's just my take on it.

[Captain Impulse]

You can mark the death of American animation at the moment when Animaniacs finished it's run. /images/graemlins/wink.gif The coming of Spongebob, Rugrats, and all those other shows that look like they were drawn by the same (terrible) animation studio just finished it off.