Shows that transcend being "Number One Favorite"

[Fencedude]

Lets see if I can explain this.

I have a "Number one favorite show", right now its My~HiME, in the past its been a number of other things, Elfen Lied and Kiddy Grade leap to mind as previous holders of the title.

But then I have shows that transcend simple numerical designation.

Shows like Figure 17 and Revolutionary Girl Utena, shows that don't lower themselves to being part of a revolving door of favorites.

If that made any sense to you, what are your shows that are like that?

[Dagger]

Just so I get your meaning... are you referring to the type of show that is clearly of high quality, but won't necessarily generate the same giddy excitement as a current #1 favorite?

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
Dagger said:
Just so I get your meaning... are you referring to the type of show that is clearly of high quality, but won't necessarily generate the same giddy excitement as a current #1 favorite?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mmm...yeah, thats what I'm getting at.

If you asked me to name some of the best shows ever made, Figure 17 would be one of them.

My~HiME probably would not.

[weaksoul]

Mushishi, Galaxy Express 999, Kino's Journey, Fighting Spirit, One Piece, Kamichu!, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, Monster, Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou, and Kodomo no Omocha. Off the top of my head.

[PhilipReuben]

I don't think of it in this way. My list of favourites is a permanent thing that only changes if I find a show that I genuinely feel is of high enough quality to go on the list.

However, I also think in terms of what show(s) I'm currently obsessed with. A few months ago I was very into Fullmetal Alchemist, but as great as it is, I knew even then that it doesn't belong on my list of favourites. In contrast, while I'm not currently obsessed with Sailor Moon (it comes back every so often), it remains my #1 favourite. Same for X, which is #2. And so on.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
Mmm...yeah, thats what I'm getting at.
If you asked me to name some of the best shows ever made, Figure 17 would be one of them.
My~HiME probably would not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, so it's sort of like the difference between a subjective "Favorite" and a more objective "Best"?

I know a lot of people do indeed classify series in such a way, but I've never done so myself. If it is my favorite show ever, then I also believe that it's the best show ever made, because, in the end, I am the only critic that matters to me. After all, entertainment value is never an objective thing -- neither is "art" in general. Therefore, what I say goes as absolute truth, but only for myself! Hence the whole subjectivity issue, and also why that "only critic that matters" line definitely wasn't meant to be arrogant at all.

Some things are quantifiable though, and while Scrapped Princess is my favorite show it isn't necessarily the one that made the most money or got the highest ratings or sold the most figures or had the most time spent per frame of animation or *whatever*, but in terms of the non-quantifiable things (in this case overall enjoyment), it is indeed my favorite, and thus the best ever, in my eyes.

Nonetheless, I do think I know what you mean. I just dont think I have any shows like that, for the reasons just stated... if it made any sense =P

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:


Hmm, so it's sort of like the difference between a subjective "Favorite" and a more objective "Best"?

I know a lot of people do indeed classify series in such a way, but I've never done so myself. If it is my favorite show ever, then I also believe that it's the best show ever made, because, in the end, I am the only critic that matters to me. After all, entertainment value is never an objective thing -- neither is "art" in general. Therefore, what I say goes as absolute truth, but only for myself! Hence the whole subjectivity issue, and also why that "only critic that matters" line definitely wasn't meant to be arrogant at all.



[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you , this is exactly what I was going for.

Unlike you, I do separate "Favorite" from "Best", I think that they are two very different concepts that should be treated differently.

For example, I love Kiddy Grade to death, I think its absolutely awesome. I just dropped $70 on some Eclair and Lumiere figures.

On the other hand, its most definitely not the "best" at anything. It has a number of severe flaws, and definitely could have been better than it was.

But I don't really mind that, because I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I've always felt that a large number of...problems anime fans have with each other (especially on the internet) stems from the fact that most of them are totally unwilling to acknowledge the flaws in the shows they like.

[jecca-neko]

My list of favorites doesn't really change very often. This applies to anime and everything else. If something were to make my favorites list, it must be a time proven classic, meaning that it must be good enough that repeat viewings and time passing doesn't really change how much I like it.

That being said, I suppose if my favorites did change more frequently, Sailor Moon and Fushigi Yuugi would always be really, really good to me, always surpassing the number one favorite of any one time.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
Unlike you, I do separate "Favorite" from "Best", I think that they are two very different concepts that should be treated differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the difference for me is that I can't really determine what "Best" is. Who decides and what are the parameters? I have no idea. So, basically, because I can't conceptualize "best" objectively, I roll it up with "favorite". However, I do try to be mindful of people who approach it differently, so that I tend to use just "favorite" when talking about such things, or at the very least I'll use both terms, just so people know I'm only speaking my own opinion.

[ QUOTE ]
I've always felt that a large number of...problems anime fans have with each other (especially on the internet) stems from the fact that most of them are totally unwilling to acknowledge the flaws in the shows they like.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true. I like Naruto as much as a lot of people, but claiming it's flawless is a total joke. Ditto on the Kiddy Grade example. Awesome show, I adore it, but some akwardly timed fanservice and highly random ending are flaws... although the ending being as it is somehow makes me love it all the more.

[B-Rad Lascelle]

I've got a soft spot for quite a number of shows, but I can still rank my favorites after a little bit of analysis when called upon. I find it therapeutic that we have the annual forum faves poll each spring to compel me to reflect on which shows remain at the top of my personal charts after taking all elements into consideration.

Favorite shows are just that... favorite shows. It's not even what you consider to be the Best of the Best by critical standards. It's simply a matter of which titles provide you with the most enjoyment all things considered. Even flawed titles can still bring boundless joy upon repeat viewings when compared with other more 'technically perfect' alternatives.

As for my Number One Favorite series, I didn't think anything would dethrone Marmalade Boy after a solid 8-year run but Infinite Ryvius somehow managed to pull the trick and continues to remain perched at the top. Whether it'll manage to last a solid 8 years remains to be seen. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

They're both flawed as all hell in some ways and have plenty of detractors and I adore them in spite of the flaws because they simply wouldn't be as GREAT in my eyes if those flaws were gone. They'd be different shows entirely. I love their good attributes along with their bad. And ultimately, I'm a sucker for character-driven angst with rich casts. Fullmetal Alchemist has me beating my head into a wall over its flaws... but damn, if it's not rising on my faves chart despite them. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

So long as you know what you like and you're aware of your subjective reasoning, there's nothing wrong with praising any kind of title. If it's what brings you enjoyment, so be it. Even if it is a vacuous harem show retread. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[touma]

I am one of those who believe that there are no objective standards for anime. They just do not and cannot exist. Everything is a matter of opinion. "Good" is what you like. "Bad" is what you do not like.
So to me "favorite" and "best" mean the same thing and it is not possible for anything to be better than my favorite.

There are objective standards for technical specifications, but that is a different subject.

[EmperorBrandon]

I'm not really sure where to go with your question, but if I had to pick one, I would go with Magical Project S. It's a great series no matter how I look at it with a good bit of variety, and it's one that's always managed to enjoy whenever I've watched despite my mood. I do give it numerical order in my favorites, but it likely has more "staying power" than anything I've seen, including the only two series I've ever ranked above it.

[musouka]

Usually I tend to differentiate between my favorite shows of the season and my all time favorites. Is that what you're talking about?

For example, Noein is my current favorite, but my top ten list is pretty firmly locked in place. (Twelve Kingdoms, Rose of Versailles, and Monster occupying the top slots)

I'm much more this way with manga, btw...

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
I think the difference for me is that I can't really determine what "Best" is. Who decides and what are the parameters? I have no idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the same situation for me. Plus people will argue about what the said parameters are. In other words you're trying to decide which opinion is fact. That kind of causes problems if you ask me. Thus no matter what show I think of, someone could point out flaws in it. By that I mean actual flaws not just made up crap or stupid stuff like whining that the main character has blue hair instead of red hair.

In terms of actually admitting flaws for favorite shows. I could name flaws in several series I like. However the problem is many flaws fall under the realm of opinion. However some flaws can not be denied. For example take Star Ocean Ex. I don't care how much one likes it. I don't care why it's incomplete. The very fact the anime is incomplete is a flaw. That can't be denied by anyone. Even if Star Ocean Ex was my favorite anime ever, I could not deny the flaw.

Either way hopefully I can sometime later maybe think of a few "best" anime for msyelf, but I've never really thought too much in terms of best anyway. Hmm it may be easier to think of best in the context of genre.

[AmericanBeauty]

Haibane Renmei and Wolf's Rain are among the best anime ever created in my mind. I can't imagine any other show that will dethrone them for a while.

[Banchan]

For me, Berserk is the one show that will always remain the best.

[Legion]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
If that made any sense to you, what are your shows that are like that?

[/ QUOTE ]
Giant Robo.

[ohtori_akio]

Utena, Rose of Versailles, Saint Seiya and Sailor Moon.

[Ty]

Haibane Renmei is the only show that definitively qualifies for this description with me.

[ibby]

My list:
Fruits Basket, Melody of Oblivion(still coming out),Utena, Monster and Karau:Phantom Memory when ADV gets around to releasing it.

[4Tran]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:...I do separate "Favorite" from "Best", I think that they are two very different concepts that should be treated differently.

[/ QUOTE ]
I feel much the same way. For me, Twelve Kingdoms is both my favorite show and my "Best" show. I can't forsee any anime toppling it in the foreseeable future. This is even more true given that its greatest strengths, setting and philosophy, are rarely addressed to any great degree by other shows.

Of course, I sometimes enjoy bad (or really bad) shows, and I find technically good shows not to my liking.

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:I've always felt that a large number of...problems anime fans have with each other (especially on the internet) stems from the fact that most of them are totally unwilling to acknowledge the flaws in the shows they like.

[/ QUOTE ]
Quite true.

[Captain Impulse]

For the most part my "favorites" and "best" series nearly run parallel in terms of their placement on any sort of "Top 10" list or whatnot. Favoritism is a tricky thing because it's completely based on opinion, and there are so many factors that can affect one's opinion. From where you were, what you were doing, how you felt and what was going on around you at the time you watched a show that can completely alter your perspective.

Thus the standard by which I tend to measure "best" is based on what I deem to be a show's merits in terms of artistic style, creativity, uniqueness, and ability to bring complex or thought-provoking ideas to the table. Some shows in recent memory that I would qualify as "best" by those definitions are: Haibane-Renmei, Chrono Crusade (first half had some complex ideas, anyway), Neon Genesis Evangelion, Twelve Kindgoms, Crest/Banner of the Stars, Ghost in the Shell (any version), FLCL, and a few others.

Favorites, however, are shows that speak to you on a more personal level. This is where I think the titles presented by different people will tend to be remarkably different, whereas "best" titles will tend to appear on more people's lists. My personal favorites include Azumanga Daioh, Cowboy Bebop, Scrapped Princess, Rune Soldier, Ghost in the Shell: S.A.C & 2nd Gig, Golden Boy, Haibane-Renmei, Record of Lodoss War, and a list that stretches on for miles.

Thus, this is why it makes finding titles that my friends will like all the more difficult. While we have similar tastes, there's no way I'd bring a show like Figure 17 to them, at least at their current level or anime maturity. /images/graemlins/wink.gif For now, I have to settle with things like Berserk, Hellsing, Bastard!! and other titles I KNOW will appeal to them. I finally cracked the shell and got them to watch Azumanga Daioh, which they loved, but it's going to be a long time before I can start presenting some "best" titles rather than just what I think will be their favorites.

[Hunter Sopko]

FLCL is the immediate answer that leaps to mind. First saw it at Jacon 2002 and held it in the highest regard ever since.

Galaxy Express 999 is another. One of my first anime, and it really cemented my love for the medium. Also, it first introduced me to Captain Harlock, the baddest mofo ever to grace the history of the world.

Though I've recently come across a new one that's transcended the numerical rankings. Beck. Dunno why, dunno how, but it just spoke to me. The music was kickass and Slip Out rivals One Life as my favorite song.

[Splitter]

Haibane Renmei and Kimi ga Nozomu Eien make this list for me. Despite all three being extremely good, I have never added either to my Top 25, but that's because I honestly couldn't find a spot for them and I didn't want to take out my #1 pick (Air) and they were too good or #2.

[theworld]

For me, this type of experience only happens when I have truly become immersed in this show; when I'm taken to a magical world where I truly feel like I am there. A world full of characters to not only sympathize with and adore, but also feel a strong, emotional connection with them.

Very few shows have been able to pull this off for me, and even fewer movies. To this day, the only TV series that have ever accomplished this feat were: Revolutionary Girl Utena, Kino's Journey, Cowboy Bebop, Haibane Renmei, Serial Experiments Lain, Tokyo Godfathers, Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away, and .hack//SIGN. /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

[Whispers]

For a long while, I went through several animes that were fad animes: they would be high in my personal interest for a few months or a year, then fade away. Even when I got into Gravitation, I still love it, no, but it's only a hazy anime in my mind when I REALLY think about it.

That all changed when I found Yami no Matsuei/Descendants of Darkness.

When I first watched the show, high on caffine, I was entranced. Never had a show pulled me in such a way as Yami no Matsuei. The artwork, the beautiful animation, the characters, the relationships, the plot, the music, the theme, it all just...struck me in such a way. It fit my every need, and the end did not leave me unsatisfied. Those thirteen episodes captured my heart.

Yes, other shows have become my favorites since then. Get Backers has interested me, so has Mirage of Blaze and Kyo Kara Maoh, and Loveless has ensnared me in such a way that it might be transcending favoritism. But none of them will ever come up to Yami no Matsuei level. I may get high on several shows, but if asked what my favorite character was, it would always be Tsuzuki Asato, my favorite pairing would be Tsuzuki/Hisoka, and my favorite anime...well, that's a gimme.

[guyverfanboy]

Well my number one favorite did change around a bit, until Guyver: The Bioboosted Armor along. I don't see it changing any time soon. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[crosbie394]

I get what you mean. At the moment, my current favourite series are Excel Saga which is a riot, Fullmetal Alchemist for it's epic feel, great soundtrack....Girls Bravo and Gilgamesh.

However, out of these shows, only Gilgamesh and maybe FMA will make it into the group of shows that will always be treasured by me. As soon as I start watching a new show, I'll probably forget them for the most part.

My set of shows that are above everything else are

Last Exile, Kaledio Star, Tenchi Muyo, .Hack//SIGN and GITS: Stand Alone Complex. No matter what shows I watch, these still remain solid faves.

[DanielJr]

I like to label them as grade "S" anime. It breaks the "A" barrier. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

I have a ton of favorites: Ah! My Goddess, FMA, Blue Gender, Tenchi, etc. But I guess I'll share a thought with you, there's a very select few that I love so much, or rather, that I appreciate so much that I don't even bother to put them along the rest.

So far... only RahXephon and Planetes are in the grade "S" category. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[Scribble]

I get what you mean about having two categories. However, I don't think of them as "favorite" vs. "best".

A couple of people have pointed out that it's all subjective, and I agree, but there are still many different criteria by which I judge things, and a show that's at the top of one list ("best story", for example) might be at the bottom of another (say, "coolest robots").

Despite how many good qualities it's possible for a show to have, I do, as I said, tend to generalize into two categories, which I'd label as The Shows I Enjoy Most and The Shows I Admire Most .

Haibane-Renmei (which a few people have mentioned) is pretty much at the top of both lists. FLCL is a little further down the second than the first, but not much. Figure 17 would be on the second list, but probably not the first, while Nadesico would be way up on the first list, but probably wouldn't make the second.

The first list fluctuates based on what's new (or what I've just discovered) or even what mood I'm in. The second list fluctuates much less.

[balthier2012]

Pretty much my top 5 favorite anime's never budge when other "great" animes come along. However, if I had to pick one anime that I have the most confidence in as remaining above all others would be Twelve Kingdoms although since it's only been out for a year, I can't brag that's its been in such a position for much time. The following 4 have been for 3-5 years. And for Twelve Kingdoms to push them all down one notch and take over 1st, I don't see it or the others going anywhere for another 3-5 years atleast.

So basically my ranked 6 and lower are the ones that casually shift rankings. In other words I could take my top 5 out of the list and just put them in "eternal favorites" and start 6th as #1 since rank 6 and down is where the "revolving door of favorites" begin (as Fencedude like's to put it).

[itsuka]

I was going to answer that my best shows are also my favourite shows, but then it hit me that this is not strictly true. There are a number of shows that I enjoy very much, but will never make it to my top 10, usually for missing one or more dimensions that other anime cover so much better.

Shows like that would fall under favourite, but not under best, like Rune Soldier, Saiyuki, Get Backers and Kyo Kara Maoh.

[Njr Scrawl]

I don't buy & watch to be part of a trend scene, but shows that have characters I want to step into the TV for to meet with talk to, etc are my continuous favourites. They make their series more than just another animated story.

Kimagure Orange Road, City Hunter, Evangelion TV, Sailor Moon, Rurouni Kenshin TV are all soul food. They are the keystones of my anime collection & addiction. The series I'd take to a desert island.

[michaelwb]

For me it'd be:

Shingu, Secret of the Stellar Wars
Haibane Renmai
Figure 17

Brigadoon comes mighty close to cracking it's way into the list.


I love them all dearly and none of them fall quite into the rhytmn or style of other shows that may wander in as a current favorite.

[ndm]

To me, a 'best' list should contain titles which would be recognised as quality works even by people who didn't particularly enjoy the series listed. They also need to be shows which have at least the potential to maybe become classics (or at least to be remembered five years down the track). For example, my best 7 list is: GitS SAC (both seasons), Cowboy Bebop, Irresponsible Captain Tylor, Nausicaa, Haibane Renmei, Twelve Kingdoms, and Maison Ikkoku. Even if someone isn't a fan of all these series, I'd hope they'd be able to appreciate at least why I feel they make the grade. Often I see people put 'best ever' series lists which are simply full of whatever they've been watching recently, and like you said, those should really just be called their 'current favourites'.

[Darkseid]

I have a list of 5 that remain my favorite/best combo, and a list of 10 currents that can be changed at any time (though it really hasn't of late). By that token

Top 5:
Macross: Do You Remember Love
Millennium Actress
Arcadia of My Youth
Nausicaa and the Valley of Wind
Giant Robo

Current 10:
Zeta Gundam
Hale + Guu
Cowboy Bebop
Whisper of the Heart
Wings of Honneamise
Lupin III (various works)
Golgo 13: The Professional
Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo
Space Adventure Cobra
Black Jack

[sakurajade]

For me, even though I've seen a lot of really, really amazing series and the series that I think about, analyze most and generally obsess over changes pretty frequently, there's only one that has really transcended that temporary state for me. That series is BECK. While the show did have flaws, the characters, the story, the music, they all connected with me in a very intense way (partially because of what was going on in my life when I first saw the show) and pulled me completely into the show's world. Because of that, it's the one series where no matter how many times I've seen an episode, when I go back to watch it again, I'm still as enraptured and excited as I was the first time.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Giant Robo is the only answer.