Anime Character Appreciation Thread Week 3 - Saint Seiya [Archive]

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ohtori_akio

03-15-2006, 03:57 AM

Much like in the previous threads (which can be found here (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1292121&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1) and here (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1298034&page=1&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) ):

As I've been watching and enjoying more animes, I've noticed that there are quite a few characters be they main or secondary who either go unnoticed or underappreciated within the fandom.
I thought I would create a thread that would redeem that as we could discuss why we like/dislike a certain character and why we think they go unnoticed/underappreciated...

I will focus on one series per week and pick a different character from the series each day. They will have their own colour so please answer in the same colour to make things easier. If you feel I've missed someone who deserves a mention PM me.

First off:

Andromeda Shun 

Taurus Aldebaran

Appendix Kiki 

Goddess Athena/Saori

Pisces Aphrodite

Pegasus Seiya

Tatsumi 

Please post your opinions in the same colour as the one attributed to the character so it's easy to follow when more characters are added to the list.

ohtori_akio

03-16-2006, 03:04 AM

No takers for Shun so let's move on to a Gold Saint. This time it's:

Taurus Aldebaran

Dragon_Shiryu

03-16-2006, 09:17 PM

Shun
Honestly, I don't think he's underappreciated, since he has tons and tons of fans. It's just that worldwide he's the one liked the least out of the main cast (either him or Seiya, with Ikki and Shiryu being the most popular, and Hyoga in the middle). Though in Japan he was the favorite, according to the polls shown in the manga. Why could he be the least popular out of the main cast? Could be because he's too innocent and is too trusting, getting himself hurt, when he's obviously really strong. A good chunk of people tend to like the badass, confident nature of Ikki, for instance. While Shun's innocence dissapoints sometimes (only time it really made my eyes roll was when he confronted Kaysa). Also, the anime might have a large role in that, making him a wuss in many situations (especially in the movies), while his manga counterpart can survive just fine without Ikki. I still like him a lot, although Shiryu, Seiya and Hyoga are my faves.


Aldebaran:
This one is easy. He's not appreciated because he barely does anything, and Kurumada used him as one of the gold saints cannon fodder. That's basically due to 2 things:
1. Since Mu is too important, Kurumada skipped him, thus, the first temple encountered is the Taurus one, so he's the bait to show the powers of the enemies.
2. As Kurumada himself said in an interview, Aldebaran was used as an example to show off the powers of the enemies as well because of his size. He said that Aldebaran looks really strong, so it's more impressive if the enemies manage to beat him.

Again, relating to the position his temple is in, since he was the first real opponent from the gold saints, he was there just to show their strength, but since it was just beginning, he didn't have much impact in the story at the point, which is saved for the others further on the road.

Aldebaran's shining moment is his battle against Siren Sorento (manga only), where although he had difficulties, he was never really beaten, and was actually pushing Sorento until Athena interfered. Other than that, he's not used. I was sad to see him being disposed of so easily in the Hades chapter, whereas the rest of the goldies were fantastic.

As a plus, I like his humbleness, and also, he let everyone survive, while he could have easily killed them (as Mu himself said). He's strong as well, and I think people underestimate him. He actually blocked Seiya's 7th sense attack, while Aioria got a nasty hit.

At the very least, he has a more active role in Episode G. He's a good character, just underused. 

Now, I don't think much people, if anyone at all, will reply here. Saint Seiya is not popular with americans /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

ohtori_akio

03-17-2006, 03:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Dragon Shiryu said:
Now, I don't think much people, if anyone at all, will reply here. Saint Seiya is not popular with americans /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I just had to take the risk coz it is an awesome franchise. No matter how much Kurumada wants to ruin it nowadays....

Just got my Pisces Myth Cloth and it is awesome!!!!

Back to the topic:

I included Shun on the list because back when I watched Saint Seiya on TV in French, people at school had a strong dislike for the character. His effeminate nature was NOT a big hit with any of the teenage boys (target audience) and he was always made out to be a bit of a wimp.
I actually also think that one of the reasons the male fans of Saint Seiya do not appreciate the character is that his background story was shown a little too late in the series. Everyone had a fairly developed background by the time they got to the Gold Saints except for Shun. They started telling us more about him when fans really wanted to see what would happen next (in the Pisces Temple and beyond) so it seemed to bring down the intensity a fair bit. That must have frustrated a few... 

Aldebaran, as you said, suffers from what someone on my Sailor Moon appreciation thread calls the "Jadeite syndrome" as he is only there to get things going but is not given much of a backbone. Add the fact that he is a very underdeveloped character and he definitely earns a place here. (Another underused Gold Saint might feature here and I'm sure you can guess which one...) The other thing that works against him is the fact that he isn't a pretty boy and doesn't have many fangirls who write yaoi fanfics about him (something that seems to redeem most other underused characters...)
I always thought he was one of the most intriguing Gold Saints when I watched the series as he is down to earth (unlike his colleagues) and has a strong sense of justice.

ohtori_akio

03-17-2006, 03:47 AM

Who better than a sidekick to feature on this thread? This is probably the least talked about character from the show.... Give it up for:

Appendix Kiki

musouka

03-17-2006, 02:38 PM

Shun:
Shun is actually my favorite Bronze Saint, and tied for my fave character. (And I was introduced to Saint Seiya through the movies!) Really, at first I found his character hilariously useless, but when I started the actual series, I was impressed with how competent he was overall in comparison.

I also find his struggle to be one of the more interesting out of the Bronze Saints. Usually in anime, you either have a ass kicking guy, or a "I will NEVER EVER kill anyone" pacifist. I think Shun falls in the middle of the two, so I especially love watching his fights and his stuggle between that impulse to give his life to end the conflict and his overall love and duty towards his goddess and comrades.

Aldebaran:
I LOVE Aldebaran. I think he really gets the short end of the stick when it comes to fan appreciation just because he isn't a "pretty boy" like half the other characters. I appreciate his sort of "live and let live", upbeat personality, and I wish Kurumada had done more with him.

Kiki:
I think Kiki is a pretty funny character, especially since I don't usually like his type of character. While I'm glad he was used rather sparingly, I was always kinda glad when he showed up.

Dragon_Shiryu

03-17-2006, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
Who better than a sidekick to feature on this thread? This is probably the least talked about character from the show.... Give it up for:

Appendix Kiki 

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah, Lionet Ban, Bear Geki and Wolf Nachi beat him on this :p

Kiki is a cool little guy. Unlike many little sidekicks, Kiki is actually useful, and has a lot of potential as a future saint. Kiki demonstrates hos worth not only in Poseidon, but also in the Hades arc, when.... He's a key figure in saving Seika (Seiya's sister). Kiki was the only character that could see the attacks thrown from the Elysian fields by Thanatos. Not even Marin or Shaina could do that.

ohtori_akio

03-17-2006, 11:35 PM

It's time for character no.4 and we are going with:

Goddess Athena/Saori

ohtori_akio

03-18-2006, 11:46 PM

No love for Athena? Ah well...

Next up is:

Pisces Aphrodite

Dragon_Shiryu

03-19-2006, 05:44 AM

Saori gets a lot of hate because of her "I'm sacrificing for humanity" role. She's way more powerful than anyone, and viewers just want to see her kick ass. While I get turnedd off by the sacrificing bits, I do like her character. And she changed a lot throughout the series. Just compare her at the end of Hades, with her at the beginning. Even during the end of the 12 Temples arc she was still struggling, especially since she bears such a heavy burden. Many of my favorite scenes from the series/manga actually involve her. Like:

I liked the terrific ending to 12 Temples (manga version), where when she reawakens she starts running while sheding tears to find the boys, who sacrificed so much for her. I especially liked it when Mu told to the others to leave her alone and go to them, since she was still only a young girl. Then while going to find the boys, Saga appears before her, begs for forgiveness, and commits suicide. I thought that was a powerful ending by Kurumada, although he could've expanded it a little more.

Another part I really like from the manga was her revelation as Athena. That was 180 degrees apart from the anime version /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif. She was such a bitch that not even Shun wanted to help her. I really laughed at that part. Seiya's dialogue was just golden (Seiya himself is one of the main reasons I prefer the manga, because in the anime they replaced him by a robot who only wanted to help Athena).

Saori went through subtle changes, and her role becomes more and more significant as time goes on, and the main cast starts becoming powerless in the events. I really hope to see Kurumada's wish of continuing the series....

Dragon_Shiryu

03-19-2006, 05:53 AM

I have to be honest. Aphrodite is probably the only gold saint I don't like. While there were three gold saints that knew the truth about the Pope (Aphrodite, Shura and Deathmask), Aphrodite's reason just isn't convincing to me. Shura at the very least redeemed himself, and he felt very human. Deathmask went with his twisted sense of justice until the very end (yes, extremely twisted), but he still thought that over time it would prove better for the world. A similar character that I found far more appealing was Misty. They actually should've switched roles with Misty as Pisces gold saint, and Aphrodite as the Lacerta Silver saint.

If there are pluses for Aphrodite I'd say they are:
1. The pisces cloth design is godly.
2. He redeemed himself, as well as Deathmask.

I think you have to defend Aphrodite, Akio /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

ohtori_akio

03-19-2006, 10:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dragon Shiryu said:
I think you have to defend Aphrodite, Akio /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

And that I shall /images/graemlins/happy.gif

I've always found Aphrodite to be an interesting character. He comes into the series as a fairly well developed and established character without so much of a background story. This feels a little strange at first since the audience wants to know more about him and why he has these philosophies but no clue is ever given. This creates a certain sense of mystery about the character that is much stronger than that of Aldebaran or Shura as no one questions Aldebaran because of his obvious sense of justice and Shura is the saint "the most devoted to Athena". For Aphrodite there is nothing tangible to go from so he feels like someone who could really be explored further and preserves his mystery.

Other aspects of Aphrodite I enjoy are his roses. It seems to me that he is the only saint who can create something tangible with his cosmos i.e the roses. This makes him extremely interesting as he seems to operate on the same "godlike" level as Shaka. Kurumada did not explore this further and it is a real shame because more explanation on the roses would be great.
Maybe I've been watching too much Utena recently but I read something very sexual into Aphrodite's roses. Their colour and their effect seem very symbolic but the way he has them at the back of his temple all the way to Holy Father's temple seems homoerotic to me. Add the fact that Holy Father describes him as the most beautiful and charming saint of Athena and that just raises an eyebrow....

Physically he is also one of the prettiest boys from the series and that gets instant dislike from the teenage male audience of the show. Shun can be redeemed for his prettiness from the male audience because his chains are sexually dominant weapons, even though he is effeminate. Aphrodite and his roses just feel very submissive and that just is not redeemable to them. This sexist ideology is especially present in the third movie when Aphrodite fights Ikki.

Now to Athena:

Athena has never been one of my favourite characters as I always thought she was underused for me to really connect with her. Everytime the bronze saints had a mission in the old series, she took a submissive role that just wasn't very fitting to the Goddess of War.
I really started to connect with her towards the end of the Hades Sanctuary Chapter when she took a more active role in the battles and actively made a decision that would affect the whole series.
I completely adored her in the 5th movie. I really think that that Saint Seiya movie is underrated because there was never a chance to explore Saori/Athena and Seiya as well as they did in it. It's a shame that we might not get to see more of that wonder as Kurumada seems to be against the direction. The music and the mood really suited Athena in that movie and her struggle was her most believable yet. The only time I thought the character was really done justice.

ohtori_akio

03-19-2006, 11:56 PM

In Shounen Jump shows it always seems that the main character verges on the underappreciated as the audience connects with his teammates. Saint Seiya is no exception and today we are discussing:

Pegasus Seiya

Dragon_Shiryu

03-20-2006, 07:13 PM

You have quite a sexual view of things /images/graemlins/knowital.gif (I disagree with it, but that's why it's an opinion).

Pegasus Seiya. I love Seiya as a character. He gets a lot of hate just because the others are so awesome. And when it's a series full of awesome characters, the less awesome one gets the hate for getting the credit for everything. I think that's actually one of the reasons. The characters say "Seiya and the others", "Seiya saved us", etc, whereas he wouldn't have done it without the team. This is one of the rare few series where the team is on equal or superior footing to the main char. Still, Seiya is hotblooded, a nice guy, and best of all, he's a normal guy when it comes to personality. He's not the typical dumbass found in most shounen, nor the overpowered bitter bastard. He's nice to the people, the girls, and puts a geniune effort into things. Also, he doesn't mind attacking in groups, nor using dirty tactics here and there. If there's only one thing I dislike is his fighting tactic, which consists of "If it didn't work the first time.... it will sometime after 300,000,000 efforts" /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif. But he's actually a smart fighter, noticing the weakness in the opponents techniques (he rarely wins by pure overpowering).

Anyway, Seiya is great. And the ending of the Hades arc actually had me teary eyed.

Another minus point, though, is that the anime creators tend to change some scenes by giving the role to Seiya, or sticking him in there. At the end of the Poseidon arc, the one that should've received the trident thrown by Poseidon was Kanon, not Seiya. In Hades, Myu faces Mu completely alone all the way through (that took out some of the badassness displayed by Mu. And the Athena Exclamation scene should've been Shiryu only, that took a lot away from his character /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif.

Nuriko

03-20-2006, 11:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
[ QUOTE ]
Dragon Shiryu said:
I think you have to defend Aphrodite, Akio /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

And that I shall /images/graemlins/happy.gif

I've always found Aphrodite to be an interesting character. He comes into the series as a fairly well developed and established character without so much of a background story. This feels a little strange at first since the audience wants to know more about him and why he has these philosophies but no clue is ever given. This creates a certain sense of mystery about the character that is much stronger than that of Aldebaran or Shura as no one questions Aldebaran because of his obvious sense of justice and Shura is the saint "the most devoted to Athena". For Aphrodite there is nothing tangible to go from so he feels like someone who could really be explored further and preserves his mystery.

Other aspects of Aphrodite I enjoy are his roses. It seems to me that he is the only saint who can create something tangible with his cosmos i.e the roses. This makes him extremely interesting as he seems to operate on the same "godlike" level as Shaka. Kurumada did not explore this further and it is a real shame because more explanation on the roses would be great.
Maybe I've been watching too much Utena recently but I read something very sexual into Aphrodite's roses. Their colour and their effect seem very symbolic but the way he has them at the back of his temple all the way to Holy Father's temple seems homoerotic to me. Add the fact that Holy Father describes him as the most beautiful and charming saint of Athena and that just raises an eyebrow....

Physically he is also one of the prettiest boys from the series and that gets instant dislike from the teenage male audience of the show. Shun can be redeemed for his prettiness from the male audience because his chains are sexually dominant weapons, even though he is effeminate. Aphrodite and his roses just feel very submissive and that just is not redeemable to them. This sexist ideology is especially present in the third movie when Aphrodite fights Ikki.

[/ QUOTE ]

You got ALL that from 1-2 episodes? It is absolutely mind boggling and shocking to know Aphrodite has a fan like you who worships him. No offense, but I don't find his flowers effective at all. It looks more for decorations, lol. And I think he is the weakest of all the gold saints. For him to be the last defender of the 12 houses, is insulting to say the least.

ohtori_akio

03-21-2006, 12:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Dragon Shiryu said:
You have quite a sexual view of things /images/graemlins/knowital.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that what it all comes down to? Even in Saint Seiya they explore that with the female saints having to wear masks...

Back to Seiya:

Seiya is one of the characters I instantly disliked upon viewing the series. Back when I was a kid none of the Bronze Saints mattered other than Hyoga (I had a HUGE crush on him) and maybe Shiryu from time to time.....
Since I've hit adulthood, Seiya is still a character I dislike, although nowhere near as much as I used to. I think he suffers from overexposure in the series like DragonShiryu pointed out before too. It's all Seiya this Seiya that, especially in the movies and towards the end of most series....
It's especially funny when all the fallen Bronze Saints yell out "Seiya!" in perfect coordination /images/graemlins/happy.gif
I find him to be a mostly stupid character who rushes through things, and no matter how often it doesn't work he'll try the same thing so I guess his resilience does pay off...
I start to like him when he shows a more tender side, such as when he conveys his yearning for his sister. I also like him as comic relief with Kiki and some of the other orphans. He also gets a fair share of interesting antagonists (Thor, Aiolia, Misty, Aldebaran) and I'm thankful for that.
As a main character he could be more interesting but I thank God everday that he is not Naruto /images/graemlins/happy.gif

ohtori_akio

03-21-2006, 12:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
You got ALL that from 1-2 episodes? It is absolutely mind boggling and shocking to know Aphrodite has a fan like you who worships him. No offense, but I don't find his flowers effective at all. It looks more for decorations, lol. And I think he is the weakest of all the gold saints. For him to be the last defender of the 12 houses, is insulting to say the least.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also referred to the movies, the philosophy surrounding his constellation with the roses and the audience's opinion of him if you look closely /images/graemlins/happy.gif

I'd love to know why you dislike him so much though. Would you care to elaborate? I'd love to read your thoughts on why he's lame...

ohtori_akio

03-21-2006, 12:22 AM

Struggling to think of a character to finish off the thread with, so why no go for the unexpected? Let's discuss:

Tatsumi /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Nuriko

03-21-2006, 12:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
You got ALL that from 1-2 episodes? It is absolutely mind boggling and shocking to know Aphrodite has a fan like you who worships him. No offense, but I don't find his flowers effective at all. It looks more for decorations, lol. And I think he is the weakest of all the gold saints. For him to be the last defender of the 12 houses, is insulting to say the least.

[/ QUOTE ]

I also referred to the movies, the philosophy surrounding his constellation with the roses and the audience's opinion of him if you look closely /images/graemlins/happy.gif

I'd love to know why you dislike him so much though. Would you care to elaborate? I'd love to read your thoughts on why he's lame...

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll start off with his attacks. Flowers ... I was like wtf? Maybe it'll work for non-gold saints but I doubt his cheesy flowers can harm any of the gold saints. So what if you get struck with a white flower, it looks to me that anyone can just pull it out, lol. He is also portrayed
very weak in the opening of the Hades Chapter.

I don't like his armor, i know it's personal taste but there is nothing special about it. Most if not all the other armors resemble their respective zodiac symbol aside from him. I guess there ain't anything fancy about the fishes, lol.

It's all subjective, but I was just shocked that he had such a huge fan (meaning you). I just assume that others would pick the more righteous ones.

Dragon_Shiryu

03-21-2006, 09:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
[ QUOTE ]
Dragon Shiryu said:
You have quite a sexual view of things /images/graemlins/knowital.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that what it all comes down to? Even in Saint Seiya they explore that with the female saints having to wear masks...

[/ QUOTE ]

No. You are a follower of the Freudian school. I have to say I don't share that ideology, sorry /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

ohtori_akio

03-22-2006, 04:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nuriko said:
It's all subjective, but I was just shocked that he had such a huge fan (meaning you). I just assume that others would pick the more righteous ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aphrodite has a fair share of fans, they just happen to be girls or mostly gay guys.
The fact that he is not righteous and is not giving a feeble reason (cough DEATHMASK cough) to be so just makes him all the more interesting.