Utena movie questions - spoiler

[JasonSolaris]

Hi. I recently got the re-priced Rose Collection set of Utena. I was going to hold off on the movie until I get all 3 sets, but I noticed some marks on the movie disc. I wanted to watch it to ensure it played properly or return it to TRSI for a replacement.

BTW: Might be better in the Retail forum, but what is TRSI policy on imperfect DVDs? From my understanding, Close Out and Bargain Bin items are not guaranteed, but I don't mind since they're so cheap. But at one point, the allowed me to replace the Trigun set, but refused a Please Teacher set, as the CSR told me it was only if it playing problem.

Anyways, I probably screwed myself by watching the movie before the series, but I found it totally confusing and not well explained. Especially when Anthy explains what is the rose bride. So here's a few questions I hope can be answered.

What is the significant of the hole in Anthy chest? Was it the stab that her brother put into her?

During the sketching scene, was Anthy explaining what the Rose Bride was and why everyone wanted her? If so, I must have missed some thing major because it didn't make any sense to me.

Is Anthy dead? I remember her brother refer to a living corpse a couple of times near the end.

At the end, all the shadow girls turned to straw and the two main announcers had Utena and Anthy name tags. What's up that?

I understand that the movie is a loose retelling of the TV series. After I eventually get all 3 boxsets, will it make much more sense?
Thanks

[Fencedude]

It won't particularly make more sense, just be somewhat less confusing.

I really advise not thinking to hard about the movie, unless monika or aquapermanence decide to show up and give their impressions.

[LexiJ]

Write the questions down and ask them again after you've seen the rest of the series. The answers may not make much more sense then they do now, but you won't be any more spoiled for the series than you already are. I just think you'll enjoy the series better if you aren't tainted by other people's explainations of things the first time you see it. Get the explainations later, to expand on, or just discuss, what you come up with yourself.

[monika]

Randy will. I don't post here anymore.

[aquapermanence]

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Fencedude said:
I really advise not thinking to hard about the movie, unless monika or aquapermanence decide to show up and give their impressions.

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/images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif You flatter me. I think. I'll see what I can do.

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What is the significant of the hole in Anthy chest? Was it the stab that her brother put into her?

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The hole in Anthy's chest is her secret, and it's also her identity. It's what makes her different from everyone else, and it's what makes her the Rose Bride. The hole represents an absence, specifically of a sword.

And after much contemplation, I realize that saying more would lead me down a far too long-winded and perilously unsupported path.

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During the sketching scene, was Anthy explaining what the Rose Bride was and why everyone wanted her? If so, I must have missed some thing major because it didn't make any sense to me.

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In that the Rose Bride contains within herself the power to revolutionize the world, she represents to many others the ability to fulfill dreams and wishes. The proof is in the hole: it's the place that can hold a noble sword, and make the owner of that sword the ruler of a closed world. One can liken it to the traditional notion of a man being able to possess the heart of a woman, or to have sex with her exclusively. When Anthy and Utena meet on the garden platform for the last time, Anthy acknowledges Utena as the new Prince, as her brother was before. Unlike Akio, however, Utena discards the idea of living in such an artificial environment, and encourages Anthy to escape that known, constructed world and seek a future together in a reality that knows no limits.

For that matter, Anthy herself is like a hothouse flower: she grows and thrives in a garden specifically designed for that purpose. Inside the world of the academy she has the safety and security to grow strong and tall, but she misses out on the wild beauty of a naturally growing plant, and her seeds cannot scatter on the wind. Or she can be compared to a cow or a chicken: her milk and eggs are used not for the creation of new life, but for the sustenance of existing life; she is chattel that exists for the benefit of those around her, and while it does not hurt her to be so, she is painfully aware of how others think of her. (Even Saionji, who loves her dearly, still demands her unwilling reciprocity in their relationship, and conveniences himself with eggs by the bowlful without regard for others when the mood strikes him. See the egg episode. No, seriously, see it.)

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Is Anthy dead? I remember her brother refer to a living corpse a couple of times near the end.

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Just as a flower in a garden, Anthy is living a rigidly controlled life. Willingly submitting herself to her brother and to the rules of the Rose Seal, Anthy may as well be a puppet or a person dead.

Just as Utena, who had given up hope for living as a child sealed herself inside an actual coffin, Anthy, who was persecuted and hated by all the world sealed herself in a figurative coffin: she buried her emotionality and her human face and allowed others to use her and see what they wanted in her. While to a great extent she controlled others, what Anthy sought through this behavior was validation as someone who was useful and worthy. In the position of the Rose Bride, the object of greatest desire in the world, Anthy at once achieves her immediate goal, and destroys her own sense of self-worth. It is Utena, who befriends Anthy, who helps Anthy to realize the worthiness of her own self. It is Akio, the Prince, who is most disadvantaged by Anthy taking control of her own life, since he himself is little more than a lofty ideal without her.

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At the end, all the shadow girls turned to straw and the two main announcers had Utena and Anthy name tags. What's up that?

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E-ko and F-ko, the shadow girls who narrate the movie, can be considered parts of Anthy and Utena's personalities. Specifically, they are the parts that are friendly, companionable, encouraging, motivating, and aware of what's going on. They know what trials will have to be faced to bring the story to its resolution, and they have all the data necessary to answer any lingering questions. Just as A-ko and B-ko were able to narrate the story of the TV series from the point of view of students of Akio's world, E-ko and F-ko narrate the story that takes place between Utena and Anthy. By drawing attention to the things they do at the times they do, they put words in the mouths of the two leads, saying things that would have otherwise gone implied or unnoticed. In that sense, they are actual straw men, and the amount of truth in their words is left as an exercise for the viewer. When Utena and Anthy leave the academy, they are themselves. There are no rules that bind them, and there is no person or logical construction that speaks in their place. The straw men, with no mouths, are silent. We can only guess at what blew the roof open; maybe it was their souls escaping.

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I understand that the movie is a loose retelling of the TV series. After I eventually get all 3 boxsets, will it make much more sense?

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Yes. It will make more sense. But there will also be much more sense to be made of it. And some nonsense.

[Isuzu Inugami]

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monika said:
I don't post here anymore.

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/images/graemlins/cry00000.gif /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

...But wait, by posting here you've proved you do post here!

...But wait, you posted to say you don't post here!

...But because you posted here, you still post here!

...But does it count if you're posting to say you don't post?

...But it doesn't matter if the "facts on the ground" are you posting here...

[infinite loop]

[monika]

You didn't notice? Anyway, Randy was asking me to explain things in Utena to him, so I figured there was a thread going on so I stopped by. I skim retail a few times a week, occasionally bring you guys ikuninews and other such treats, and occasionally post about not posting anymore, but I most certainly do not post here anymore.

This board is mortally wounded to me. </colbert>

[Mary]

I find the movie to be different in theme than the anime though many of the elements are the same - and all of it is heavy on symbolizm and allegory - just as a quick start before I answer your specific questions- the Rose Bride is supposed to provide the power to revolutionize the world. But what both the series and the movie say is that the power to revolutionize the world lies not with in some one else but with in ourselves. How ever it is the ability to love another that gives us the strength to make the changes that change , not the whole world but our world.

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JasonSolaris said:

What is the significant of the hole in Anthy chest? Was it the stab that her brother put into her?

The stabbing and the hole represent a lack to love unselflessly that is in Anthy's soul - Anthy's relationship and love for her brother was so twisted and dark that it was destroying him and still Anthy would rather see him die and even commit murder than let that love go. Anthy wanted only to see what she wanted to see not the man her brother was, she destroyed him. Similarly Utena has a reflection of that rot inside her because she blames herself for Touga's death. Like Anthy she saw him not for who he was but for who she wanted him to be and he died trying to fulfill her dreams

During the sketching scene, was Anthy explaining what the Rose Bride was and why everyone wanted her? If so, I must have missed some thing major because it didn't make any sense to me.

The Rose Bride represents the power to revolutionize the world through love - but not the whole world - only your own world and that of the Rose Bride. This is the real reason that all other duelists lose, because their goal has always been about what they want, not about what is best for the one they care for, the Rose Bride. Even Saionji who loves Anthy - sees her more as a doll or trophy than a person with needs. Utena wins because she puts Anthy first - she has learned her lesson from her loss of Touga

Is Anthy dead? I remember her brother refer to a living corpse a couple of times near the end.

Well her brother is a living corpse - he is only alive in her memories, just Touga lives only because of Utena. Before the last battle Utena remembers everything, forgives herself and lets the memory of Touga go - it is this battle - psychological one - that must be one before she can win the physical battle. Anthy could be considered a living corpse because she can't leave the past behind or forgive herself from the wrong that she has done before.

At the end, all the shadow girls turned to straw and the two main announcers had Utena and Anthy name tags. What's up that?

They were a part of Utena and Anthy - I would have to rewatch the movie as that sticks less with me then the great carwash removing the stains of the soul followed by the escape from the sins and griefs of the past that caged them. The school being like a purgatory more or less

I understand that the movie is a loose retelling of the TV series. After I eventually get all 3 boxsets, will it make much more sense?

Though the main theme is the same I think the box sets tell a different story, one where Anthy and the other women of the series are more the victims han someone suffering/being punished for their sins, though there is a bit of that, Utena represents someone more whole and complete of herself, neither victim or victimizer, she gets distracted every now and then but always finds her way back to the core of who she is and Akio is more victimizer, the one that can't be trusted rather- than the tormented weak soul lead astray by his sisters passions. In fact most of the men in the series, even the gentler ones are shown as someone who can not be trusted at some point or another
Thanks

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[Isuzu Inugami]

Well. Of course I noticed you weren't posting here anymore, but I never dreamed it meant you weren't posting here anymore! Such a shock.

[monika]

/images/graemlins/sad.gif sorry for shock!