Suggestions for thought-provoking anime?

[raybrandt]

I'm a casual anime fan and pretty long time lurker. I've actually felt like I've been falling out of anime fandom for a while, but I picked up the thinkpak collection of Kino's Journey not long ago, and found that I really love it (at a time when some of the anime I used to really like a few years ago and some anime that seems pretty well-recommended aren't really doing it for me). Can someone suggest some similarly interesting and thought-provoking anime?

For reference: I have Haibane Renmei (the recent collection) but haven't watched it yet. I know about Now and Then, Here and There and Lain (I have the first "Signature Series" volume of Lain and watched the first episode not that long ago), but I generally don't like anime that's too creepy, violent, or otherwise disturbing. (I know this'll limit the options significantly, so if you know something good which is like that, feel free to mention it anyway, just warn me.)

I'd prefer something that's either only a single disc long or something that's available in a collection, but this isn't a strict requirement.

[DKL]

I hate to keep whoring out the show like this... but I'll again say:

Princess Tutu... as for why... uhh... gimme a few days to type something up... although, the review over at our site did a pretty good job of discussing things:

http://www.themanime.org/viewreview.php?id=803

"All of these odd elements, however, serve a distinct purpose unlike some other shows that are simply trying to be strange for the sake of being strange. The stylized fairy tale and ballet elements help the show focus and explore a number of different thematic elements ranging from love to the struggle against destiny. In the tradition of classic fairy tales, many of the darker aspects of such themes are not ignored providing for a more textured examination of the themes and ideas being raised. The strange nature of this story (and oft times I suppose it would be more correctly referred to as a metastory) even provides for the exploration of certain thought provoking existential questions in a more interesting and accessible way than typically encountered in anime more purposefully intended to be deeply philosophical. While I'm not going to claim that Princess Tutu represents some sort of groundbreaking Bergmanesque anime production, I did find it a great deal more thematically satisfying than I anticipated on starting the show."

I also thought that Ghost in the Shell 2 was good in this department... uhh... and... Paranoia Agent

There's more, but I'll go with those first

[JackProton]

There's always Tutu's big sister, Utena.

Have you seen Key the Metal Idol? That one might be right up your ally.

[ohtori_akio]

Vision of Escaflowne?
X TV?
Rose of Versailles?

[Corwyn]

[ QUOTE ]
Raybrandt said:
but I generally don't like anime that's too creepy, violent, or otherwise disturbing. (I know this'll limit the options significantly, so if you know something good which is like that, feel free to mention it anyway, just warn me.)

I'd prefer something that's either only a single disc long or something that's available in a collection, but this isn't a strict requirement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jin-Roh, But the warning above applies (It's pretty violent at the beginning and ending). It's a movie, so it's one disk.

John

[DanielJr]

It sounds like you're looking for something thoughtful, not much thought-provoking. Because there are many mind-fucking series out there, but only a few are honestly thoughtful. Kino's Journey and Haibane Renmei are definitely thoughtful, but also have a wealth of heart and soul through its melancholic presentation. Something like Lain, Boogiepop Phantom, and some others lack this --these are alleged "thought-provoking" anime.

I'd say go for something like Macross Plus, Ghost in the Shell, Millenium Actress, Tokyo Godfathers, or Perfect Blue.

[chloes_fork]

[ QUOTE ]
DanielJr said:
It sounds like you're looking for something thoughtful, not much thought-provoking. Because there are many mind-fucking series out there, but only a few are honestly thoughtful. Kino's Journey and Haibane Renmei are definitely thoughtful, but also have a wealth of heart and soul through its melancholic presentation. Something like Lain, Boogiepop Phantom, and some others lack this --these are alleged "thought-provoking" anime.

[/ QUOTE ]
I strongly disagree that Lain lacks "heart and soul," though I suppose it doesn't exactly wear them on its sleeve. Still, those elements are there in plenty for the sympathetic viewer. That's the main reason, I think, I prefer it to the oft-compared Boogiepop Phantom -- because Boogiepop, while a delightful narrative conundrum, doesn't offer the same emotional and character resonance as Lain.

[XenoCrisis0153]

depending on what kind of thoughts you're looking for, you might want to consider these:

- Ghost in the Shell: SAC - what it means to be human, the ranges of our abilities and how we use them
- Infinite Ryvius - is it all for one or all for me? learning how not to be selfish in times of dire emergency
- Voices of a Distant Star - what it means to sacrifice for love. how willing you are to love someone without their being near

[roastedpekingduck]

X TV and Escaflowne are not dumb series, but I wouldn't throw them under though-provoking.

[pianocello]

Saber Marionette (entire series)
Despite the bright cheery colors, this is an extremely thought provoking anime dealing with a whole lot of issues ranging from gender to what it means for a machine to be like a human.

[itsuka]

I second Tutu, Ryvius, Ghost in the Shell SAC, Paranoia Agent, Millenium Actress, Jin Roh and Utena. I also love X dearly, but I'm not sure I'd call it thoughtful or thoughprovoking, though it is heartwrenching emotional. Escaflowne is also not that thoughtprovoking overall. I do not agree much on Saber Marionette J. Fun as it is, the theme of the humanity of androids sort of buckles under the harem, the fanservice and the action. But, if that's not a problem, then Chobits might serve just as well.

I recommend Arjuna, but with a warning that the thoughts it provokes on the balance of ecology are proven highly controversial amongst viewers. The series looks beautiful and it certainly is thoughtprovoking. Just don't feel compelled to agree and regard it as fiction.

Also, I think you should try Fruits Basket if you haven't so far. There is no other series that is so thoughtprovoking on an old anime cliché about what it really means if you change shape under certain circumstances and what it does with you emotionally.

Alas, no cheap set of this, and probably won't be for some time, but keep an eye open for Fullmetal Alchemist. That series is thoughtprovoking, from the very personal (what does it mean to have a soul) to the political end of the spectrum.

Gasaraki is one of the more thoughtful angsty teenage mecha series. In fact, it's so intellectual that some people hated it for being cold and detached. It's going OOP, so hurry and grab some set off ebay while you still can (the 8 volume ones are probably legit). I find that many installments of the teenage angsty mecha genre usually contain some thought besides the action scenes (Fafner, RahXephon, Neon Genesis Evangelion, etc).

Koi Kaze is the best anime ever made about forbidden love (and highly controversial for it) between brother and sister.

Planetes has some great thoughts about the future of mankind in space and the politically added thoughts of who will benefit from that. Alas, no cheap box set yet, but I have the feeling Bandai won't wait too long, this year or next year probably.

Please Save My Earth is probably one the best reincarnation anime around, where lots of thought is spend on how the old characters differ from the their new personas, and how it affects their relationships. Too bad it doesn't have a good ending, for that you need the manga. But it's only 1 disc with OVA episodes.

Texhnolyze may be too dark for your taste, and is not an easy anime to follow plotwise, but it covers a lot more thought than would appear at first glance. No cheap collection available if I recall correctly.

Twelve Kingdoms contains a lot reflection about one's purpose in life and the nature of good government. All suitably packed in a great epic adventure story. So far only a premium collection, but I'm sure the economy will follow soon.

Wolf's Rain is also quite a thoughful anime, though I find it hard to explain why and the specifics. Anyway, there is a cheap collection announced, though it may contain only the first half, as it didn't have the proper length attached to it.

Series which have some thoughtful elements, but are not that centered around it (but may be interesting to try if you're running out of alternatives) are Geneshaft (on gender politics and genetic engineering), Gilgamesh (on the role of technology in society), Gunslinger Girl (how far can you go to fight crime), The Irresponsible Captain Tylor (on the nature of war and the military), Samurai X Trust Betrayal and Reflection (on betrayal and atonement), Scrapped Princess (on what is good for society and what not), Someday's Dreamers (on wishes and happiness).

[chloes_fork]

[ QUOTE ]
Itsuka said:
I recommend Arjuna, but with a warning that the thoughts it provokes on the balance of ecology are proven highly controversial amongst viewers. The series looks beautiful and it certainly is thoughtprovoking. Just don't feel compelled to agree and regard it as fiction.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll certainly second an Arjuna recommendation. Yes, it has its haters (who presumably consider saving the Earth a bad idea /images/graemlins/tongue.gif ), but I thought it was excellent.

[DKL]

[ QUOTE ]
XenoCrisis0153 said:

- Ghost in the Shell: SAC - what it means to be human, the ranges of our abilities and how we use them



[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... that was there, but I sort of felt that the GITS TV series was more about pursuing your own kind of justice in a world that doesn't allow for it anymore... but yeah, the whole "what it means to be human" thing was sorta there, but I felt that it wasn't really in the focus as much

Okay... I'll discuss GITS 2 when I get to school... yeah...

A lot of what's being suggested here though are pretty good

[Njr Scrawl]

Paranoid Agent & Perfect Blue are thought-provoking, even if its just to wonder what the creators were smoking.

If you have seen any Urusei Yatsura, but not the 2nd movie "Beautiful Dreamer", that's worth a try. Its a groundhog day type scenario - not the usual slapstick - though its still comic.

[cheezisgoooood]

Paranoia Agent is the show that got me into anime, because of the fact it was so thought-provoking and well-laid out. Also, Serial Experiments Lain is very philosophical as well, as the line between virtual reality and real reality becomes thinner as the series goes on. Boogiepop Phantom also confuses the hell out of you just trying to piece the puzzle of the storyline together.

Neon Genesis Evangelion is, of course, very pyschological in its storytelling, and is a classic, but I think Elfen Lied also somewhat makes you think, as it does have a very interesting plot to it.

[DKL]

Actually, I was really impresed at how seamless Satoshi Kon's insight was with his storytelling in both Paranoia Agent and Perfect Blue

Like... perfect blue was a nifty thriller kinda thing, but at the same time, I love how they portrayed the character's issues with identity and stuff... like what's real? what's not real? I am an actess or a pop singer?

Who defines who I am? The media or myself?

Etc. Etc. Etc.

I also like how Paranoia Agent went... in fact, I love Kon's portrayal of how people generally take in information passively (like, from the internet or media in general) and how it affects their lives and ways of thinking more than they'd like to admit

It's pretty sweet... but at the same time, ceaselessly entertaining because of said storytelling that's really really creative

============

Okay... I thought it over and I managed to simplify my thoughts on Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence

Uh... the movie poses two main questions from what I could tell:

they had the tagline, which made a lot of sense:

"When dolls learn to feel, who decides what's human?"

Also

"Do you consider yourself happy?"

Much of the movie is spent exploring the ideas attached to these questions... what I like most about what Oshii does with Innocence is that he's very focused and clear about what he wants to say throughout the entire run of the movie

Also, he actually comes up with answers to these questions and somehow conveys it with just a few lines at the end of the movie (which I think are quotes from books or something, but put into a different context... but then, don't take my word for it because I'd be the last person to know about such things... I mean, I don't read books after all)

Anyway, the answers were surprisingly brilliant... it felt like the journey going there was worth it, if only for the insight at the end of the movie (although, I'm a fan of Oshii's mesmerizing style, so you know)

So yeah, I recommend it

[perigee]

[ QUOTE ]
chloes_fork said:
I'll certainly second an Arjuna recommendation. Yes, it has its haters (who presumably consider saving the Earth a bad idea /images/graemlins/tongue.gif ), but I thought it was excellent.

[/ QUOTE ]
Arjuna does as much for rational ecology as someone declaring himself a druid by "bathing in the blood of an oak tree". It is virulently antitechnology, antihuman and firmly embraces the ideology of the Gaian Greens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaian_Greens), a Green Party splinter group. [ QUOTE ]
A Gaian is a radical Green who views the ecology of the Earth's biosphere not only as the basis of human moral examples, but of all cognition and even sentience. Advocates of this view claim that since we live as part of one planet's photosynthesis chain and trapped within its gravity well, we are effectively components of one large body—that being the global ecology of Earth itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apart from its nonsensical philosophy, I found Arjuna to contain some of the ugliest images ever conceived in anime, including the character design of Arjuna. As one who is concerned with ecological problems, I find Arjuna a disservice to the cause.

[DKL]

Wow, I would've never looked at it from that perspective in a million years... good post... anyone wanna debate it? It'd be really interesting (for me to watch, hahaha... er... since I can't really say anything on the subject... but yeah, I think the thing would make for good discussion... I'll just follow along)

[chloes_fork]

Wow, quite the informed and impassioned response. Personally, I took the show more or less on its own terms -- as a somewhat wooly-headed fantasy, which seemed to me to have its heart if not its mind in the right place. I certainly didn't agree with everything in it, but I don't consider that a prerequisite to enjoyment, and I did find it frequently provocative.

I will say that I was at least as impressed with the emotional and character moments as the show's Big Ideas, anyway. I thought those smaller, more mundane elements were tellingly and touchingly observed. As for the series being visually "ugly," I only found it so when that was clearly the intent. Otherwise the art and animation is quite beautiful.

[BluWacky]

[ QUOTE ]
perigee said:

Arjuna does as much for rational ecology as someone declaring himself a druid by "bathing in the blood of an oak tree". It is virulently antitechnology, antihuman and firmly embraces the ideology of the Gaian Greens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaian_Greens), a Green Party splinter group.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, Arjuna's heavy-handed, but I'd hardly call a series that used cutting edge computer animation "anti-technology". Anti-irresponsible-use-of-technology, yes, as highlighted by the genetic engineering episode, but the Gaian stuff is pure fantasy in the show (surely most Gaians don't have magatama on their foreheads and magical powers...) and serves mostly as allegory, even if it IS heavy handed.

[ QUOTE ]

Apart from its nonsensical philosophy, I found Arjuna to contain some of the ugliest images ever conceived in anime, including the character design of Arjuna. As one who is concerned with ecological problems, I find Arjuna a disservice to the cause.

[/ QUOTE ]

Different strokes for different folks, I guess; I loved Arjuna's aesthetic, but then I love Satelight's crazy "we'll do whatever the hell we want, consistency and traditional character designs be damned!" philosophy.

As much as I love the show (it's still in my top 5 shows of all time, even if my unconditional fanboying of the show has somewhat abated), much of it is a load of cultist twaddle; episode 4 in particular is bad for that. However, for a well-written love story and some fairly intelligent sociological (rather than ecological) commentary with kick-ass music and innovative animation, you can't go wrong with Arjuna; just roll your eyes at the bits when Kawamori was a little too stoned to think straight...

See, Arjuna is thought-provoking!

(and I swore I wouldn't get into arguments about this show again...)

[Njr Scrawl]

Those (GiTS) thoughts are similar to Blade Runner's replicants (also tributed in BGC OVAs). Blade Runner was based on Phillip K Dick's novel "Do Androids Dream of Elecric Sheep".

I suppose Isaac Asimov's robot novels are also there with sentient, feeling, self-questioning artifical life forms. Max Schenk's movie "Android" & Data in ST:TNG likewise.

[DKL]

Wow, I didn't know that... thanks for the info

[jecca-neko]

I'll throw out one that no one has mentioned yet, since I've seen it recently: Le Portrait de Petite Cossette. It's very visual, similar to Lain, but it does make you think about spirits being in objects and the possibility of a human loving a spirit of a human that's long since been dead. It does have some blood sprays, but it's not disgusting. I think other suggestions, like Jin-Roh, are much more violent and gory.

[2old2care]

Well, since John over in R4 land reviewed (http://www.animeondvd.com/reviews2/disc_reviews/5383.php) it today, I can't think of a better choice than Millennium Actress. I think it meets all your requirements. Caution: it is sub-only in R1.

It must be spring. The biennial Arjuna wars are in full bloom...

[citicslmatts]

[ QUOTE ]
DanielJr said:
I'd say go for something like Macross Plus, Ghost in the Shell, Millenium Actress, Tokyo Godfathers, or Perfect Blue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah - Tokyo Godfathers is what I was going to suggest. Great animation too. Super cool.

Peace.

[banksie]

[ QUOTE ]
chloes_fork said:
That's the main reason, I think, I prefer it to the oft-compared Boogiepop Phantom -- because Boogiepop, while a delightful narrative conundrum, doesn't offer the same emotional and character resonance as Lain.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have to disagree somewhat, Boogiepop has a great deal of emotion and character resonance within it but it is sharper and more focused than lain. Lain has a smaller core cast and uses the entire series run to explore their dynamics. Boogiepop generally had a new main character and their situation each episode. But who isn't moved by the mother discovering the pressures her daughter was under and eventually getting the chance to understand and say goodbye to her? Or the brother and sister who support each other because their father has mentally brokendown and their mother is stretched dealing with that. Manaka who gets such a short time to experience life and isn't soured by her experiences despite a very difficult childhood and being literally killed for no fault of her own. (Not that that stops her particularly.) The kid who just wants to help people and be heroic only gets it all terribly wrong.

Boogiepop has a lot of characters to relate to who experience some extremely touching drama in the time we seem them. I've always found it a very uplifting series in it's own way. It would be a mistake to describe Boogiepop as being cold or lacking in emotion.

[cheezisgoooood]

[ QUOTE ]
banksie said:
[ QUOTE ]
chloes_fork said:
That's the main reason, I think, I prefer it to the oft-compared Boogiepop Phantom -- because Boogiepop, while a delightful narrative conundrum, doesn't offer the same emotional and character resonance as Lain.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have to disagree somewhat, Boogiepop has a great deal of emotion and character resonance within it but it is sharper and more focused than lain. Lain has a smaller core cast and uses the entire series run to explore their dynamics. Boogiepop generally had a new main character and their situation each episode. But who isn't moved by the mother discovering the pressures her daughter was under and eventually getting the chance to understand and say goodbye to her? Or the brother and sister who support each other because their father has mentally brokendown and their mother is stretched dealing with that. Manaka who gets such a short time to experience life and isn't soured by her experiences despite a very difficult childhood and being literally killed for no fault of her own. (Not that that stops her particularly.) The kid who just wants to help people and be heroic only gets it all terribly wrong.

Boogiepop has a lot of characters to relate to who experience some extremely touching drama in the time we seem them. I've always found it a very uplifting series in it's own way. It would be a mistake to describe Boogiepop as being cold or lacking in emotion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Serial Experiments Lain can't be compared too much to Boogiepop Phantom, simply because Boogiepop Phantom is a completely different story with a different theme presented in a different way. The only actual similarity are that both are confusing, dark, and thought-provoking.

[cairber]

Not sure it totally qualifies, but I found Niea_7 to be a thoughtful anime. I think, in part, this was because I saw a lot of myself in one of the leads. It is a little goofy now and then and tends to be more "slice of life"ish, but it always makes me think. I loved Lain and Haibane as well, and Niea, being by the same guy, has that engaging quality in it.

[Darkseid]

Some of my favorites have already been mentioned, so I'll just suggest Now & Then/Here & There. That one made me think and feel like most other anime titles hadn't in a long while.

[AmericanBeauty]

I second Haibane Renmei, Fullmetal Alchemist, Arjuna, Now and Then-Here and There, GITS:SAC, and Wolf's Rain.

[JackProton]

[ QUOTE ]
cairbear said:
Not sure it totally qualifies, but I found Niea_7 to be a thoughtful anime. I think, in part, this was because I saw a lot of myself in one of the leads. It is a little goofy now and then and tends to be more "slice of life"ish, but it always makes me think. I loved Lain and Haibane as well, and Niea, being by the same guy, has that engaging quality in it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Niea_7 is really very goofy but there's actually a lot of interesting things going on just beneath the surface. One of the major themes explored (and which comes up again in Haibane Renmei in a more explicit form) is the idea of being in between two worlds. The major character is a Ronin, a student who has graduated high school but who is in a sort of limbo state taking cram courses in order to ensure her future college choice. The old bathhouse where she works is struggling to keep from going under and needs to find new ways of surviving. There are various aliens in the show with each struggling to become someone new on their new world. This all touches on the Buddhist philisophical concepts of impermanence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impermanence) and attachment and desire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism) as being causes of suffering.

Of course you can watch Niea as little more than a wacked out stream-of-consciousness comedy with a strong strain of wistfulness running throughout but it is rather thoughtful if you dig past the outlandish craziness.

[Nani]

It's difficult to recommend thought provoking anime since the only one you've really seen is Kino's Journey. Sometimes how well done the story is made is thought provoking, like RahXephon. Sometimes it's just a skewed take on reality and existentialism, like Serial Experiments Lain.

And yet other times it's just an exploration of emotion, like A Place Promised or Voices of a Distant Star.

What made Kino's Journey so interesting to you? It's exploration about the mores of society or its unique storytelling technique? What do you actually find thought provoking?

Texhnolyze is a stylistic take on modern culture using sci fi as a backdrop to explore it. Paranoia Agent explores the psychological links that occur in society. FullMetal Alchemist explores the questions: What would you do to get what you want? What is the moral choice?

Ultimately much of anime can be thought provoking if people actually are willing to think about the questions it raises. At the same time, many might find them nothing more than an entertaining story. Take your pick on what you might find as interesting. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[nakimushi]

If you can still find a copy of it around, I'd recommend Spring and Chaos. I've watched it several times and get more out of it each time I watch it.

Here are some reviews here (http://www.animecritic.com/_metareview/viewtitle.php?aid=192).


I would also say that Ajuna is intentionally very thought-provoking. You may not agree with all of its assertions (they are on the extreme) side, but it definitely made me rethink some things.

[Chloe]

Nausicaa and Princess Mononoke have a fair amount of violence, but there is a lot going on there besides that as well. Masker Keaton was not consistent with this, but had a whole lot of intriguing episodes,at least for me. I also might recommend Only Yesterday, but that is not available in R1 at this time.

[EWD]

There have been lots of good suggestions so far, but here is one I haven't seen suggested yet:

Kurogane Communication

For some reason, I found this show oddly though-provoking. It's a slice-of-life show about the last girl on earth after a cataclysmic war has wiped out human civilization. She lives her life with several robots who seek to fulfill their programming by keeping her happy and safe. The show is at times lighthearted, but the themes are serious overall.

The series is available in an inexpensive 3-disk collection, or you can get the 3 disks separately. TSRI has the 3 disks in their bargain bin right now for $5.99 each. The first one is here. (http://www.rightstuf.com/1-800-338-6827/catalogmgr/JTPDAvOQlhuskhsyy6/browse/item/56248/4/0/-2334)