Saiunkoku Monogatari Discussion Thread

[Suwako Moriya]

Official Site (http://www3.nhk.or.jp/anime/saiunkoku/). All right with that out of the way. All right then I'm watching the first episode of this series or will be done watching it by the time you read this post. In any case I think I'm going to like this series. The lead female Kou herself is rather pretty. Which definitely helps a lot. Of course this is only the first episode. So it can both improve or worsen. However I think it's off to a decent start msyelf. Or maybe I'm just hynpotized by the Kouse being pretty. Now if only I knew what the title translated to.

[BluWacky]

Saiunkoku Monogatari = "Stories of the Glowing Cloud Kingdom" (Saiunkoku is the name of the overall kingdom where the story takes place).

I can't decide whether I like Saiunkoku Monogatari yet or not. I know it's not Twelve Kingdoms, but I want it to be so desperately that despite all the good things about it - the surprisingly decent animation, the intriguing world set up, a relatively interesting lead in Shuurei - I wish it was more of a fantasy show because I like those more than period dramas.

I'll have to wait and see how things turn out; they'll have to strike a decent balance between "bishie reverse-harem show" and "period political drama" to keep me interested in the long term.

Oh, and throw in some demon crows and give Shuurei a sword /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[Suwako Moriya]

Ah all right thanks. In any case since I've never watched Twelve Kingdom that angle doesn't really matter to me personally. Still it would be nice if Shuurei gained some type of weapon. Although I'm not sure I'd want it to be a sword. Especially if others are using swords. Maybe give her a lance instead or whatever.

[Pelianth]

[ QUOTE ]
BluWacky said:
I'll have to wait and see how things turn out; they'll have to strike a decent balance between "bishie reverse-harem show" and "period political drama" to keep me interested in the long term.

Oh, and throw in some demon crows and give Shuurei a sword /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe it would help if you thought of it as a FY rip instead of 12K? (mind you , i haven't seen any of it yet, so take that with a grain of salt.)

Oh and Shuurei's seiyuu was in Twelve Kingdoms....as Shoukei.

[BluWacky]

[ QUOTE ]
Pelianth said:

Maybe it would help if you thought of it as a FY rip instead of 12K? (mind you , i haven't seen any of it yet, so take that with a grain of salt.)

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that this is exactly what I'm trying to avoid doing /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

FY to me is a wonderful idea let down by terrible execution (and rubbish animation, which thankfully isn't a problem for Saiunkoku thus far); we all know the old complaints about the show by now and it won't do me any good to rehash them. If things go too far towards "everybody loves Shuurei!" then I'll drop the show; while I like cheesy shoujo romance more than is possibly healthy for a bloke, I'm not keen on harem shows for either gender.

The first episode already gives us the King that Shuurei is "married" to who looks to be the primary love interest, but then there's Shuurei's household servant/bodyguard who sticks so close to her in the first episode (and in the OP sequence) he'll obviously be a rival, plus several other bishounen who could no doubt succumb to Shuurei's charms; thankfully she's not a vapid airhead like Miaka (she's extremely intelligent, in fact; she wishes to become a court politician but can't take the relevant exams because she's a woman), but even that might not be enough!

Of course, I'm jumping the gun here - I've only seen one episode, after all, and I've no idea how the story will progress at all. Guess we'll just have to wait and see how things turn out.

Oh, and another link with Twelve Kingdoms is both shows have the same composer, Kunihiko Ryo!

[Suwako Moriya]

Well I won't really mind if the anime has a harem aspect since I've watched multiple harem anime before. It's just that this time my attention will be focused on the target of affection instead of the ones giving the affection. Still even with my acceptance of harem anime, given that the series is 39 episodes. I don't think the show can survive on the (reverse) harem aspect alone.

I've really only seen one volume of FY. A VHS tape. I've never gotten around to completing the series ever. Heck at this point I've written it off. Not because of dislike, but because I'm more concerned with other things. From series that are licensed that I want to series I want to be licensed so I can collect them. Although it would have been nice to be able to watch it on International Channel, but nooooooooooo Cox removed it. *Slaps*. That was long ago though.

[Pelianth]

[ QUOTE ]
BluWacky said:
Oh, and another link with Twelve Kingdoms is both shows have the same composer, Kunihiko Ryo!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooooooh... /images/graemlins/noseblee.gif

[Suwako Moriya]

Ah episode 2 was pretty nice. I'll let someone else do the explaining, but I'm getting to like Shuurei more and more. Plus we get to see what she looks like as a child. Or at least I think that's a flashback scene. In any case Kouyu looks like he may be one of the scarier ones. It was kind of fun seeing <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>Shuurei get Ryuuki to help sell stuff for a young girl.</span> In any case it looks I'm sticking with the series a bit longer and even longer. Either until it ends or I change my mind.

[Suwako Moriya]

After watching episode 4, I think they are definitely still setting things up as it were. I wonder when the change of focus will happen. Darn it this is one of the times I wish I had a better understanding of what's going on. It would make the series more enjoyable. Ah well.

[mandisaw]

Now that the Spring season has come to a close, I'd like to resurrect this thread. SaiMono is an outstanding political drama, and neatly fulfills my craving for angsty josei anime - now with pretty costumes and extra sword-play! Seriously, Shuurei seems like a heroine you can really root for, and Ryuuki is just the right combination of smart &amp; strong in being the Emperor, but clueless and vulnerable in being a husband. Six eps in, and I'm already hooked. Anybody else watching this one? /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[Suwako Moriya]

Yes I am definitely still watching the series myself. It's quite enjoyable so far. Shuurei herself is a rather nice female lead. Both in terms of personality and character design. Now I just need the energy and dedication to discuss series better in general.

[Sheena]

Count me in as hooked on this one too. After 7 episodes, I'm still looking forward to the next with the same anticipation. It somehow reminds me of 12 Kingdoms and Fushigi Yugi. Nice believable strong female lead, political intrigue and a bit of action in a china-like setting.

I'm surprised to see so few people follow it, maybe because of the lack of fan service. Whatever, it's like princess princess (in a different genre), as long as it's subbed, I'm happy.

[Helschadenfreude]

I haven't quite watched the anime yet, but I'm getting to it. The manga and novel summaries I seen have made me very intrigued.. and I am so glad that it's not a harem thing.

/images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif Although I wouldn't mind if the King had some competition... but the main lead is dense enough? avoidant? to make it interesting I guess.. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[itsuka]

[ QUOTE ]
Sheena said:
Count me in as hooked on this one too. After 7 episodes, I'm still looking forward to the next with the same anticipation. It somehow reminds me of 12 Kingdoms and Fushigi Yugi. Nice believable strong female lead, political intrigue and a bit of action in a china-like setting.

I'm surprised to see so few people follow it, maybe because of the lack of fan service. Whatever, it's like princess princess (in a different genre), as long as it's subbed, I'm happy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fansub group is working at a rather leisurely pace, the raws are already at episode 14. That never helped to make it more popular. From what I've been seeing from the raws, I really, really enjoy this show. I hope it's something Media Blasters will go for. It fits their profile (as does Princess Princess, which I also liked very much /images/graemlins/happy.gif)

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
PsychoIdiot said:
I haven't quite watched the anime yet, but I'm getting to it. The manga and novel summaries I seen have made me very intrigued.. and I am so glad that it's not a harem thing.

/images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif Although I wouldn't mind if the King had some competition... but the main lead is dense enough? avoidant? to make it interesting I guess.. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't really like the king, I hope she ends with Seiran, considering that is the pairing that her mother always though was best for her. It is hard to keep up with it, I missed episode 13 and I was completely lost watching episode 14.

[Sheena]

Considering how close the Emperor and Seiran are in so many ways, it could really go either way. Anyway, I'm only at Ep.7 so far so at this point it's not clear whether there'll be any kind of love triangle involved. It'd probably be too good of an angle not to exploit it hehe.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
Sheena said:
Considering how close the Emperor and Seiran are in so many ways, it could really go either way. Anyway, I'm only at Ep.7 so far so at this point it's not clear whether there'll be any kind of love triangle involved. It'd probably be too good of an angle not to exploit it hehe.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, this series is supposed to be 39 episodes. I really can't imagine what kind of plotlines they are going to come for 39 episodes.

[mandisaw]

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
[ QUOTE ]
Sheena said:
Considering how close the Emperor and Seiran are in so many ways, it could really go either way. Anyway, I'm only at Ep.7 so far so at this point it's not clear whether there'll be any kind of love triangle involved. It'd probably be too good of an angle not to exploit it hehe.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, this series is supposed to be 39 episodes. I really can't imagine what kind of plotlines they are going to come for 39 episodes.

[/ QUOTE ]
Admittedly, reading too much into an opening sequence can be misleading, but... I'd guess that Shuurei &amp; Emperor Ryuuki remain *the* couple, but Seiran serves as support for them, both individually and together. He probably will turn out to have some tragic lost love interest of his own, since as of ep. 6 no one's said *why* he left/was exiled.

As for keeping the plot going for 39 eps, it's drawing from a mid-length novel series (9? vols in Japan, 6? in China), plus dialogue, action, and cool scenery. The production staff should have no problem filling the time. As it stands, they're packing a lot of plot &amp; character development right into the first run of episodes, so they probably aren't worried about having too little story. (You can tell if the staff thinks that, because they front-load with intro fillers and/or try to cram a lot of plot into the last few episodes - Escaflowne ran a little bit like that, as did Noir.) The legend of the eight guardians keeps hanging in the background, so perhaps the "real story" will begin with the Summer season/middle arc, sort of like with Kenshin's Kyoto arc.

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:
The legend of the eight guardians keeps hanging in the background, so perhaps the "real story" will begin with the Summer season/middle arc, sort of like with Kenshin's Kyoto arc.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't seen Kenshin myself, but well it is highly likely that the eight guardians will come into play sooner or later. Plus a lot of series tend to have it so the plot changes focus at a certain point at least once if not multiple times. So that's bound to happen here. Either way all I can do is wait and see.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:

Admittedly, reading too much into an opening sequence can be misleading, but... I'd guess that Shuurei &amp; Emperor Ryuuki remain *the* couple, but Seiran serves as support for them, both individually and together.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this a guess from you or something that comes from the novels? I really dislike Ryuuki and will be really disappointed if Shuurei ends with him at the end. The official website has Shuurei and Ryuuki characters with two big dots, and everyone else with small dots by their names, so I guess they are the main characters. I hope there is still interest because right now there is only one place where you watch the episodes from /images/graemlins/wink.gif. I guess episode 13 was skipped due to the world cup.

[itsuka]

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:

Admittedly, reading too much into an opening sequence can be misleading, but... I'd guess that Shuurei &amp; Emperor Ryuuki remain *the* couple, but Seiran serves as support for them, both individually and together.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this a guess from you or something that comes from the novels? I really dislike Ryuuki and will be really disappointed if Shuurei ends with him at the end. The official website has Shuurei and Ryuuki characters with two big dots, and everyone else with small dots by their names, so I guess they are the main characters. I hope there is still interest because right now there is only one place where you watch the episodes from /images/graemlins/wink.gif. I guess episode 13 was skipped due to the world cup.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it wasn't, it's been broadcast. But the raw is a bit hard to find because it didn't have an english language title. I found it by googling 'saiunkoku monogatari 13', getting an extra description and seeing the exact time stamp it had, I went back to the Tokyo Library site and found it.

[mandisaw]

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:

Admittedly, reading too much into an opening sequence can be misleading, but... I'd guess that Shuurei &amp; Emperor Ryuuki remain *the* couple, but Seiran serves as support for them, both individually and together.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this a guess from you or something that comes from the novels? I really dislike Ryuuki and will be really disappointed if Shuurei ends with him at the end.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's a guess based on the opening sequence. (Everyone's sort of grouped into apparently related sub-groups.) Ryuuki &amp; Shuurei are by themselves &amp; then they meet, then there's that bit with two big Ryuuki &amp; Seiren heads where Shuurei's treadmill running in front. My experience with shoujo anime and manga makes me think that Ryuuki's the male romantic lead here. Again though, you can only read so much into an opening sequence.

Personally, I like Ryuuki, and I think he's got a lot of potential as a good match for Shuurei, both intellectually and personality-wise. Seiren is too obviously subservient to Shuurei to be much of a foil. Also, since she grew up with him, she probably doesn't see him as a romantic possibility.

[CrimsonRose]

After reading about this series in the August issue of Newtype USA, I just had to have a look around online for it....And I love it! The seven pages of character drawings in the magazine gave me a good idea of the look and feel for the series, so I hope others (lots of others!) decide the same.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
RosePetal said:
After reading about this series in the August issue of Newtype USA, I just had to have a look around online for it....And I love it! The seven pages of character drawings in the magazine gave me a good idea of the look and feel for the series, so I hope others (lots of others!) decide the same.

[/ QUOTE ]
It is a pretty good series, but 39 episodes is too long imho. There must be a lot of novels. I can't stay away from the show though, even though I know Shurei is going to end with the darn Bisexual Ryuki! /images/graemlins/anger200.gif /images/graemlins/anger100.gif

[mandisaw]

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
It is a pretty good series, but 39 episodes is too long imho. There must be a lot of novels. I can't stay away from the show though, even though I know Shurei is going to end with the darn Bisexual Ryuki! /images/graemlins/anger200.gif /images/graemlins/anger100.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Strangely, the length of the anime series has nothing to do with the number/length of prose novels. Someday's Dreamers, Maria-sama, and Mirage of Blaze all have 13-ep runs (two of 'em in Maria-sama's case), but vastly varying print runs.

As for Ryuuki, I don't think he's actually bisexual, he just lives a complicated life *grin*. (soft-spoilers through ep. 6)<span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>If the courtiers think he's gay, then they will be less likely to try to gain influence or assassinate him by using lovers/potential wives.</span>

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:
As for Ryuuki, I don't think he's actually bisexual, he just lives a complicated life *grin*. (soft-spoilers through ep. 6)<span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>If the courtiers think he's gay, then they will be less likely to try to gain influence or assassinate him by using lovers/potential wives.</span>

[/ QUOTE ]That would hold water if he had not told Shurei himself the he likes both women and men!

[CrimsonRose]

But an earlier conversation he had with Ran Shuuei leads me to believe that he feels stuck with what stories he's already told or what's been implied and he's not sure how to get out of them without totally coming clean, which he feels would make him seem a complete liar to Shurei and ruin his chances with her. Plus,<span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'> I don't think he's really gay or bisexual. After the way he was treated by his mother and brothers, who used to put him a locked dark room, I think he's just having someone stay with him at night so he won't be alone, much like what Shurei is doing now.</span>

[pianocello]

I've seen up to ep 6. While this seems tailor-made for yaoi fangirls who enjoy oggling at "they might be gay" bishies, I've somewhat enjoyed this. The female lead has to be one of the best female leads ever and the theme songs are excellent. I do however wish that there would be more than one strong and interesting female character that takes centerstage rather than constantly have the story fall into "Shuurei is surrounded by hundreds of bishies" mode. The other thing that bothers me the comedic scenes - they are not funny (Fushigi Yugi's comedic scenes for example are funnier) and the BGM in the comedic scenes are AWFUL - that annoying clarinet playing in the woodwind ensemble needs to stop. NOW.

[mandisaw]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I've seen up to ep 6. While this seems tailor-made for yaoi fangirls who enjoy oggling at "they might be gay" bishies, I've somewhat enjoyed this.
(snip)
I do however wish that there would be more than one strong and interesting female character that takes centerstage rather than constantly have the story fall into "Shuurei is surrounded by hundreds of bishies" mode.
(snip)
that annoying clarinet playing in the woodwind ensemble needs to stop. NOW.

[/ QUOTE ]
About the clarinet player, I'll have to go check that out /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.

As for the cast lineup, so far (as of ep. 6), this is one of the straightest mostly-one-gender casts I've ever seen. There may be some conflicting opinions on whether Ryuuki's nighttime visitors are sexual or not, which the dialogue contributes to, but everybody else is pretty definitively hetero. Even Ri Kouyuu, who proclaims a distaste for women, seems to be more the asthetic scholar than the flustered uke. So while it might be ripe for doujinshi/fanfic, I think it's safe for non-shounen-ai fans. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

And Shuurei's not the only strong female character, she's just the leading one. Her lady-in-waiting <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>and bodyguard</span> is pretty much steel-under-silk, I'd say, and there's no telling who we might meet if they ever leave the palace. (Recall that random women aren't allowed in the palace, so they are being internally-consistent.)

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:
As for the cast lineup, so far (as of ep. 6), this is one of the straightest mostly-one-gender casts I've ever seen. There may be some conflicting opinions on whether Ryuuki's nighttime visitors are sexual or not, which the dialogue contributes to, but everybody else is pretty definitively hetero. Even Ri Kouyuu, who proclaims a distaste for women, seems to be more the asthetic scholar than the flustered uke. So while it might be ripe for doujinshi/fanfic, I think it's safe for non-shounen-ai fans. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

And Shuurei's not the only strong female character, she's just the leading one. Her lady-in-waiting <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>and bodyguard</span> is pretty much steel-under-silk, I'd say, and there's no telling who we might meet if they ever leave the palace. (Recall that random women aren't allowed in the palace, so they are being internally-consistent.)

[/ QUOTE ]

If I were to make a comparison, the 3rd arc of 12 Kingdoms had 3 strong female leads. The supporting female leads in Saiunkoku Monogatori pale in comparison to Shuurei because they are just not getting enough character development (so far).

On the BL stuff, it's more subtext than officially canon. It's more of the Getbackers, Gankutsuou level than Gravitation. But it was clear that the director was pandering to the BL fans with all the scenes of bishies leaning close to each other, etc. It won't be long (in fact it has already started) before we get 1000+ yaoi fanfics. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[golthin]

Talking about this series, it has been two weeks since the last episode. I wonder why they are taking such a long break.

[mandisaw]

Good point about 12 Kingdoms, but as you say, that was pretty deep into the series, and we're just in the beginning with Saiunkoku.

As for the director's intent, I'm still trying to get my head around the concept of "moe", but does this count as "girl-oriented-moe"? *heh* I suppose I could've asked if I'd actually gotten to see this *before* I went to a Masuyama panel at ANext...

Frankly though, it's probably just standard character design for an ensemble cast. When all's said and done, there'll probably be a different flavor of guy for every taste, so to speak. We've already got:
Unfulfilled Potential Guy (Shi Ryuuki) [read: Our Hero],
Mysterious Angsty Guy (Shi Seiran),
Handsome Rogue Guy (Ran Shuuei),
Protective/World-weary Older Guy (Kou Shouka),
Clueless Smart Guy (Ri Kouyuu), and most recently
Quirky Romantic Guy (Ran Ryuuei).

As for the yaoi fanfics, they'll start as soon as there are two guys in the story. I wouldn't be surprised if folks had started writing them from ep. 1, first half (Papa Kou/Shi Seiran)... *sigh*

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:
We've already got:

Mysterious Angsty Guy (Shi Seiran),


[/ QUOTE ]
I will never describe Seiran as Angsty! He is the guy that supports Shurei, I will describe him more as the manly and confident guy that supports her. Ryuiki is more angsty than Seiran as you can see of how unsecure he is about losing to Seiran.

[mandisaw]

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:
We've already got:

Mysterious Angsty Guy (Shi Seiran),


[/ QUOTE ]
I will never describe Seiran as Angsty! He is the guy that supports Shurei, I will describe him more as the manly and confident guy that supports her. Ryuiki is more angsty than Seiran as you can see of how unsecure he is about losing to Seiran.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ryuuki's insecurity is pretty standard for early first love, and it's sort of natural for him to cast Seiran in the mold of romantic rival. But Seiran's worries about the demons of his past, the future of the country, and the safety of those around him definitely count as "angst" in my book. And I like that he supports Shuurei, but that doesn't negate his feelings about other stuff.

BTW, the folks in my local club suspect that Shuurei's got a "special ingredient" in those manjuu buns. *heh* Everyone who eats one bends to her will pretty easily...

[musouka]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I've seen up to ep 6. While this seems tailor-made for yaoi fangirls who enjoy oggling at "they might be gay" bishies, I've somewhat enjoyed this. The female lead has to be one of the best female leads ever and the theme songs are excellent. I do however wish that there would be more than one strong and interesting female character that takes centerstage rather than constantly have the story fall into "Shuurei is surrounded by hundreds of bishies" mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, yes, but of course it'd just be great if it was one or two guys surrounded by bi-curious girls that liked to take their clothes off a lot, right?

[mandisaw]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
Oh, yes, but of course it'd just be great if it was one or two guys surrounded by bi-curious girls that liked to take their clothes off a lot, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
After an entire 6hr. session of all-harem-anime (don't ask why...), I'm glad to be able to say that Saimono has a plot/setting that doesn't provide an excuse to get a bunch of people naked in a hot springs or in skimpy swimsuits at the beach. *snark*

[CrimsonRose]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I've seen up to ep 6. While this seems tailor-made for yaoi fangirls who enjoy oggling at "they might be gay" bishies, I've somewhat enjoyed this. The female lead has to be one of the best female leads ever and the theme songs are excellent. I do however wish that there would be more than one strong and interesting female character that takes centerstage rather than constantly have the story fall into "Shuurei is surrounded by hundreds of bishies" mode.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, yes, but of course it'd just be great if it was one or two guys surrounded by bi-curious girls that liked to take their clothes off a lot, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm perfectly happy with Shuurei being the one female lead. <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'> After all, she's working in a government office, where only men are allowed anyway! </span>

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
RosePetal said:
I'm perfectly happy with Shuurei being the one female lead. <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'> After all, she's working in a government office, where only men are allowed anyway! </span>

[/ QUOTE ]
That is no true anymore as far as the latest episodes go.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:
[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
Oh, yes, but of course it'd just be great if it was one or two guys surrounded by bi-curious girls that liked to take their clothes off a lot, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
After an entire 6hr. session of all-harem-anime (don't ask why...), I'm glad to be able to say that Saimono has a plot/setting that doesn't provide an excuse to get a bunch of people naked in a hot springs or in skimpy swimsuits at the beach. *snark*

[/ QUOTE ]

Somehow I doubt you will be complaining if there is an episode of this show where are the bishies are frolicking naked in an onsen and being "friendly" with each other. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[musouka]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Somehow I doubt you will be complaining if there is an episode of this show where are the bishies are frolicking naked in an onsen and being "friendly" with each other. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, okay. There's a difference between you talking about how many guys and BL subtext there is--especially considering your usual posts of "boobies and lesbians yaaaay!"--and me pointing out how hypocritical you are to complain a show not aimed at your gender is not pandering to your tastes.

Basically, you have no room to be talking about yaoi fangirls that like to oggle gay bishies and the guy to girl ratio.

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:
BTW, the folks in my local club suspect that Shuurei's got a "special ingredient" in those manjuu buns. *heh* Everyone who eats one bends to her will pretty easily...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah just great now you've given away how they'll deal with and defeat the main villain. Who is err I have no idea here. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif In all seriousness it would be interesting to know what the special ingredient would be if there is one.

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
Basically, you have no room to be talking about yaoi fangirls that like to oggle gay bishies and the guy to girl ratio.

[/ QUOTE ]

On that note, I have to wonder why the guy to girl ratio is even such an issue. I mean seriously people just need to accept facts. Some series have plenty of girls, some have plenty of guys, and some have a decent mixture of both. None of the three scenarios should be seen as the end of the world. Yet apparently at least one of them is. Which one depends on who you ask.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
Anri Misugi said:
[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
Basically, you have no room to be talking about yaoi fangirls that like to oggle gay bishies and the guy to girl ratio.

[/ QUOTE ]

On that note, I have to wonder why the guy to girl ratio is even such an issue. I mean seriously people just need to accept facts. Some series have plenty of girls, some have plenty of guys, and some have a decent mixture of both. None of the three scenarios should be seen as the end of the world. Yet apparently at least one of them is. Which one depends on who you ask.

[/ QUOTE ]
I never understood why people have such issues with series that have a lot of males. IF you don't like it, just don't watch it. I must warn people, if you don't like shows with lots of Bishies, stay away from Koi Suru Tenshi angelique official website (http://www.gamecity.ne.jp/neoromance/tv/ange/). I lost count of how many times the show had close ups of the bishies smiling prettily and almost was ready to throw up. /images/graemlins/happy.gif I had to work really hard to get through the first 3 episodes /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif. Of course, the first three episodes are just character introduction and story set up, so maybe it will get better considering that 9 of the guys are supposed to be magical guardians for the girl.

[Pelianth]

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
I never understood why people have such issues with series that have a lot of males. IF you don't like it, just don't watch it. I must warn people, if you don't like shows with lots of Bishies, stay away from Koi Suru Tenshi angelique official website (http://www.gamecity.ne.jp/neoromance/tv/ange/). I lost count of how many times the show had close ups of the bishies smiling prettily and almost was ready to throw up. /images/graemlins/happy.gif I had to work really hard to get through the first 3 episodes /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif. Of course, the first three episodes are just character introduction and story set up, so maybe it will get better considering that 9 of the guys are supposed to be magical guardians for the girl.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's worth noting that Angelique is based off of a girls' relationship sim. Think Meine Liebe and Harutoki.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Somehow I doubt you will be complaining if there is an episode of this show where are the bishies are frolicking naked in an onsen and being "friendly" with each other. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, okay. There's a difference between you talking about how many guys and BL subtext there is--especially considering your usual posts of "boobies and lesbians yaaaay!"--and me pointing out how hypocritical you are to complain a show not aimed at your gender is not pandering to your tastes.

Basically, you have no room to be talking about yaoi fangirls that like to oggle gay bishies and the guy to girl ratio.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting edgy, aren't we? /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif Please read my posts carefully. I never said anything about disliking Saiunkoku Monogatari. In fact, I'm still liking the show and following it carefully. I merely pointed out that there were several factors that I would have prefered them to do better by making a comparison with Twelve Kingdoms (another show I like).

Besides, if you've been following my posts, you know that even with the "one guy surrounded by many girls" anime that I watch, I will point out any flaws I see even if I like the show. You don't have to be so defensive just because I'm not going "OOH! Gay Bishies!" Not all of us watch Saiunkoku Monogatari just to ogle at gay bishies, you know.

[Pelianth]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Somehow I doubt you will be complaining if there is an episode of this show where are the bishies are frolicking naked in an onsen and being "friendly" with each other. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, okay. There's a difference between you talking about how many guys and BL subtext there is--especially considering your usual posts of "boobies and lesbians yaaaay!"--and me pointing out how hypocritical you are to complain a show not aimed at your gender is not pandering to your tastes.

Basically, you have no room to be talking about yaoi fangirls that like to oggle gay bishies and the guy to girl ratio.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting edgy, aren't we? /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif Please read my posts carefully. I never said anything about disliking Saiunkoku Monogatari. In fact, I'm still liking the show and following it carefully. I merely pointed out that there were several factors that I would have prefered them to do better by making a comparison with Twelve Kingdoms (another show I like).

Besides, if you've been following my posts, you know that even with the "one guy surrounded by many girls" anime that I watch, I will point out any flaws I see even if I like the show. You don't have to be so defensive just because I'm not going "OOH! Gay Bishies!" Not all of us watch Saiunkoku Monogatari just to ogle at gay bishies, you know.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, but you rarely lose the chance to infer that the true thing to make any show great is scantily clad girls crawling all over each other, and *that* is what makes your complaining hypocritical, not to mention it's annoying as all hell.

[musouka]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Getting edgy, aren't we? /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif Please read my posts carefully. I never said anything about disliking Saiunkoku Monogatari. In fact, I'm still liking the show and following it carefully. I merely pointed out that there were several factors that I would have prefered them to do better by making a comparison with Twelve Kingdoms (another show I like).

[/ QUOTE ]

Which, again, is not your call. Besides, the way you offhandedly insult other fans of the show by calling them yaoi fangirls that just like to oggle pretty guys (oh, gee, I wish us females could be as discerning as you, who obviously watches anime with the purest of motives, piano!) and making it sound like there's no reason for Shuurei to be surrounded by that many guys (hint, a lot of the action takes place in the royal palace where women aren't generally allowed to take a strong hand in things) is OFFPUTTING.

You could have said something as simple as "I'm not the target audience for this show, but I'm really enjoying it. I find myself wishing the cast was a bit more well rounded in terms of gender, though" and I would have never even said anything. Hell, I probably would have agreed with you.

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Besides, if you've been following my posts, you know that even with the "one guy surrounded by many girls" anime that I watch, I will point out any flaws I see even if I like the show.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, like the fact that there aren't any nipple shots or the girls aren't groping one another enough.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:


Which, again, is not your call. Besides, the way you offhandedly insult other fans of the show by calling them yaoi fangirls that just like to oggle pretty guys

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay please read my posts again carefully. Since when did I insult other fans of the show by calling them yaoi fangirls that just like to oggle pretty guys? Perhaps you didn't notice that my post originally had a smiley /images/graemlins/tongue.gif which clearly was just a light-hearted ribbing?
Not to mention you were the one that started it all by insinuating that the only reason that this is not my favorite show was because it didn't pander to fanservice. Not also to mention that I never used the word "yaoi fangirls" in my posts, you were the one that used it.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
Pelianth said:
Ah, but you rarely lose the chance to infer that the true thing to make any show great is scantily clad girls crawling all over each other, and *that* is what makes your complaining hypocritical, not to mention it's annoying as all hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just what has that to do with this Saiunkoku Monogatari discussion? None of my original posts in this thread had anything to do with yuri and ecchi. It was musuoka who started to insinuate that only reason I didn't like Saiunkoku Monogatari was because it didn't have any yuri and ecchi.
Now can we please get back on topic to the discussion? Thanks.

[musouka]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Okay please read my posts again carefully. Since when did I insult other fans of the show by calling them yaoi fangirls that just like to oggle pretty guys? Perhaps you didn't notice that my post originally had a smiley /images/graemlins/tongue.gif which clearly was just a light-hearted ribbing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I think you need to go reread your original post, because you did indeed insinuate the show was only aimed at "yaoi fangirls that liked to oggle they might be gay bishies" in a rather depreciative way and there was no emoticon in the post.

Furthermore, I never said that you hated the show. I knew you liked it, since you said as much in your post. I just have an issue with someone complaining about superficial aspects of a show that isn't even aimed at you. Look, the fact that there are a lot of guys isn't a flaw. The fact that there is BL and BL subtext isn't a flaw. You are not required to love the BL, but if you're watching a show focusing on that kind of subtext it's dumb to complain about it. It's like complaining about all the gay guys in FAKE.

EDIT: I'm not really upset by this, btw. I was just slightly annoyed at the way you will constantly go off on how series can only be improved with more female relationships and more T&amp;A, but then go on to act like having a mostly male cast in a show is some sort of flaw.

[mandisaw]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Okay please read my posts again carefully. Since when did I insult other fans of the show by calling them yaoi fangirls that just like to oggle pretty guys? Perhaps you didn't notice that my post originally had a smiley /images/graemlins/tongue.gif which clearly was just a light-hearted ribbing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, I think you need to go reread your original post, because you did indeed insinuate the show was only aimed at "yaoi fangirls that liked to oggle they might be gay bishies" in a rather depreciative way and there was no emoticon in the post.
(snip)
EDIT: I'm not really upset by this, btw. I was just slightly annoyed at the way you will constantly go off on how series can only be improved with more female relationships and more T&amp;A, but then go on to act like having a mostly male cast in a show is some sort of flaw.

[/ QUOTE ]
Just to be fair here, I don't think you can always read extra opinions into someone's posts about one topic based on their posts on other topics. What I look for or comment about in say, Hellsing, is not what I'm looking for or commenting on in say, Please Save My Earth. It's okay to complain about not enough T&amp;A in a show about nekkid-girls, and to complain about lack of gender balance in a show about (hetero) relationships.

I never got a derogatory vibe off of the earlier posts in this thread, and frankly, I didn't read the response to *my post* about onsen/beach scenes as the slightest bit mean or whiny. The prevailing mood was pretty congenial, so piano's post(s) about the guy-girl ratio were easily read as the mild snarking that I think they were meant as.

[musouka]

[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:
It's okay to complain about not enough T&amp;A in a show about nekkid-girls, and to complain about lack of gender balance in a show about (hetero) relationships.

[/ QUOTE ]

But Saiunkoku isn't about "hetero relationships". There is BL (sub)text there there too. But it's not just for girls to oggle, otherwise I doubt <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>the scene featuring two men expressing their love for one another would be between two old unattractive-to-sqeeing-bishie-fangirls men.

[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:
I didn't read the response to *my post* about onsen/beach scenes as the slightest bit mean or whiny.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think he was trying to be mean either. His original post touched a nerve in that it, basically, said "hey, I'm watching this show for the awesome female lead, but I know the chicks are just using it as yaoi fodder". While I know he didn't mean it rudely, it was still offputting, which I why I initially tried to respond somewhat jokingly back.

This will be my last post on the subject as I do believe it's derailed the thread in a way I didn't intend.</span>

[mandisaw]

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
[ QUOTE ]
mandisaw said:
It's okay to complain about not enough T&amp;A in a show about nekkid-girls, and to complain about lack of gender balance in a show about (hetero) relationships.

[/ QUOTE ]

But Saiunkoku isn't about "hetero relationships". There is BL (sub)text there there too. But it's not just for girls to oggle, otherwise I doubt <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>the scene featuring two men expressing their love for one another would be between two old unattractive-to-sqeeing-bishie-fangirls men.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm, haven't seen that scene yet (up to ep. 6), so I can't comment specifically. But I put the "hetero" in parenthesis, since it's early yet, and there are enough chars that there are probably a mix of different relationships.</span>

[Ambers79]

I am really enjoying this show. One of the main plot points right now is that only men are allowed in the government that Shurei is wants to become part of, so it is understandable that their isn't a lot of women in the show right now. I really don't look for this show to have any Shounen Ai elements other than Ryuki admitting at the beginning he likes guys although there was a reason for it.

I am curious to see where the story is going to since it is suppose to be 30 some ep. There is something going on with the old man Sho turning into a younger version and I have to wonder if that is going to become more of a focus as the show goes on.

I seems like the show is coming out kind of slow I hope that it keeps getting subbed and not dropped.

[pianocello]

On a related topic, the latest issue of Newtype USA gave some prominence to Saiunkoku Monogatari. Based on precedence, I'm guessing we will be seeing an R1 release within the next 6 months.

[CrimsonRose]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
On a related topic, the latest issue of Newtype USA gave some prominence to Saiunkoku Monogatari. Based on precedence, I'm guessing we will be seeing an R1 release within the next 6 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that comes true, I'll buy it!! I wonder which company is the most likely to pick it up?

[itsuka]

[ QUOTE ]
RosePetal said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
On a related topic, the latest issue of Newtype USA gave some prominence to Saiunkoku Monogatari. Based on precedence, I'm guessing we will be seeing an R1 release within the next 6 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that comes true, I'll buy it!! I wonder which company is the most likely to pick it up?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would bet first on Media Blasters. They like historical anime, definitely don't mind some perceived light yaoi atmosphere, it's not too long for them, and it fits well with other works of theirs like Twelve Kingdoms.

My second bet would be Geneon, since they still like to maintain a broad type of catalogue.

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
On a related topic, the latest issue of Newtype USA gave some prominence to Saiunkoku Monogatari. Based on precedence, I'm guessing we will be seeing an R1 release within the next 6 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be nice if that is the case, but some will be ready to warn that just because something appears in the mag does not mean it will ever be licensed. Still it does give people a bit of hope. Either way most likely any announcement will come at least months after the series ends in Japan, but it would be an interesting sign if they announced it while still airing. They being well whoever.

[Pelianth]

Well, not that there's been much discussion of this series, but I was happy to see the following on Animaxis's news list:

[ QUOTE ]
Second Season of "Saiunkoku Monogatari" Debuts in April

A second season of the popular "Saiunkoku Monogatari" TV anime (Sai Yukino - Kadokawa Beans Bunko) has been announced. New episodes will be aired beginning in April 2007. (more (http://www.animaxis.com/en/zine/newsletter/view.asp?id=N001698))

[/ QUOTE ]

[seca]

I had no idea there was a thread for this series in the forums.

I'm horribly behind in watching this series but it's one of my favorites right now. I'm very excited to hear that it was given a second season which it deserves, IMHO.

[golthin]

[ QUOTE ]
Pelianth said:
Well, not that there's been much discussion of this series, but I was happy to see the following on Animaxis's news list:

[ QUOTE ]
Second Season of "Saiunkoku Monogatari" Debuts in April

A second season of the popular "Saiunkoku Monogatari" TV anime (Sai Yukino - Kadokawa Beans Bunko) has been announced. New episodes will be aired beginning in April 2007. (more (http://www.animaxis.com/en/zine/newsletter/view.asp?id=N001698))

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, this is strange, I thought it was already confirmed that it was going to be 39 episodes. Does the second season mean that there will be more than 39 episodes. Last episode broadcasted was episode 27, so they have now 12 more episodes to go to end the projected episodes. SO if they plan more episodes than what was projected they will be taking a month break between seasons.

[Pelianth]

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
[ QUOTE ]
Pelianth said:
Well, not that there's been much discussion of this series, but I was happy to see the following on Animaxis's news list:

[ QUOTE ]
Second Season of "Saiunkoku Monogatari" Debuts in April

A second season of the popular "Saiunkoku Monogatari" TV anime (Sai Yukino - Kadokawa Beans Bunko) has been announced. New episodes will be aired beginning in April 2007. (more (http://www.animaxis.com/en/zine/newsletter/view.asp?id=N001698))

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, this is strange, I thought it was already confirmed that it was going to be 39 episodes. Does the second season mean that there will be more than 39 episodes. Last episode broadcasted was episode 27, so they have now 12 more episodes to go to end the projected episodes. SO if they plan more episodes than what was projected they will be taking a month break between seasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming that's what it means. My wallet cries though, as I'm collecting the R2 LEs and the first season is already 13 discs.

[Suwako Moriya]

[ QUOTE ]
seca said:
I'm horribly behind in watching this series but it's one of my favorites right now. I'm very excited to hear that it was given a second season which it deserves, IMHO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure how far behind you are, but I've seen up to episode 18 myself. So far the series is pretty nice. Thus if the quality keeps up then a second season will be something to look forward to. Especially if the series needs more episodes to properly tell the story. In any back to watching episode 19. It's good to make progress on occasion.

[CrimsonRose]

Yeah! I'm glad to hear that this series gets a second season. I'm absolutely in love with it and can't wait for more.....

[ScottBernard]

Just got done watching all 39 episodes of Season 1. I actually felt that the latter part of the series seemed tacked on awkardly, not matching the feel of the much better first part. Hopefully, season 2 will "resolve" the unanswered questions left by season 1.