Escaflowne, Evangelion or Utena?

[ohtori_akio]

I've noticed many times over on different sites that these three are referred to as the best anime of their time! Since they all came out at around the same time, I'd love a discussion that would get into why you think each is considered to be so great and also what you love so much about them. To be objective, it would probably be best for you to have seen all 3 of them before voting in the poll.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

1 - Utena.
Strikes the perfect balance between storytelling, symbolism, and artistic brilliance. If I had to give up every series I owned except one, this would be the one I'd keep.

2 - Escaflowne.
I only saw this within the last 4 months or so, and it was an amazing experience. I had not seen a TV series that felt this epic in a long time. The blending of fantasy, drama, and mecha was just right. I can only wonder what took me so long to finally see it.

3 - Evangelion.
Sometimes drowns itself in its symbolism, but by no means bad. I like how it <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>pretends to be a mecha show, </span> but then sneaks up on you and then drags you off in a completely different direction with the real meaning of what's going on. And budget contraints or not, I actually enjoy the last 2 episodes the way they are. Then again, I like abstract storytelling anyway. (coughcoughLaincoughcough) /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[DrMM]

This is tough, since, depending on how I look at each series, I could go two different ways. If I look at them in terms of 'fun and rewatchable', I go for Escaflowne, Utena, Evangelion. However, if I look at in terms of 'quality of the actual story' I go Evangelion, Utena and Escaflowne.

Escaflowne is a series I love and adore and have rewatched more than most series I own. However, it's also a series that has a rather average story with fairly predictable events and characters. Without the amazing musical score, it would be 'good, but not great'. It's very fun to watch but I don't think it's the 'best'.

Evangelion is actually the opposite. In terms of story and characters, it's amazing and qualifies as a 'best', in my opinion. However, 'best' doesn't always translate to 'fun' and while Evangelion is fun at first, once the complicated plot starts, the 'fun' element decreases.

I find Utena to be in the middle of both of these series. While Escaflowne is fun all the way through and Evangelion stops being fun once the complicated plot starts, Utena starts off as fun and remains fun through the series, although it's less fun at the end (but still more fun than Eva). Utena and Evangelion both have amazing plots and characters, although I tend to think that Evangelion is better, while Escaflowne lags far behind. Therefore, Utena is somewhere in the middle, although it's a series I really do love.

[jecca-neko]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
1 - Utena.
Strikes the perfect balance between storytelling, symbolism, and artistic brilliance.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely agree with that and that's why Utena is number one for me.

It was hard to place Escaflowne and Evangelion, because I don't particularly care for either, but Yoko Kanno's music and Merle pushed Escaflowne higher.

Escaflowne is a show that I simply couldn't care about or identify with any of the characters. As anyone who has seen my comments on Infinite Ryvius knows, this seems to hurt how I feel about a show. BADLY.

For Evangelion, I never really understood the point of the show, what the creators wanted to tell us. They had interesting characters but by the end broke them all and had nothing really to show for it.

[Shsway]

Utena is a balm to my soul that generally feels like it was tailor-made/mixed together just for me. Evangelion also makes me feel unusually good about things, with quite a compeling story and cast. If it weren't for the fact that there's so much relating going on between myself and the things that I see onscreen when I watch RGU, Eva would likely be my top show, if not higher on the list. Both have great scores, excellent Japanese casts and thoroughly brilliant directors, scriptwriters and mind-fuck elements.

Escaflowne ranks third, though not because it is of significantly lower quality. Everything about this show is rich and engrossing, though I'm not as attached to the cast and unlike the other two, was left a bit more unsatisfied by the finale.

I chose the Utena, Esca, Eva option.

Utena rocks. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif It's the kind of show you can watch multiple times and come away with something new each time, and the symbolism/metaphors actually make some sense to me most of the time. I don't analyze it the way a lot of others do, my brain would explode if I tried. But that's okay. Because you don't need to be overly analytical with it to enjoy it. Akio was easily the evilest antagonist I've ever seen in a series. The only episode of any anime I've ever seen that left me quietly stunned and with a cold lead weight in my stomach kind of feeling is in this series. That episode just hit that hard. And then there's Jury. I love Jury.

Escaflowne is just a great series. It's a good drama that doesn't try to be something it's not while still giving you a "deeper meaning" kind of plot. Add in that it's got a great cast of characters and a terrific soundtrack that stands well for listening on it's own, and it's just a win/win series.

I hate Eva. Well, hate is probably too strong a word. But I do dislike it. I couldn't sympathize with any of the characters and after 5 episodes realized I just didn't care enough to keep going. I've got all the discs, so someday I might go back to it, if only for Megumi Ogata. But right now, it's on the bottom of my list and I'll have to be really bored to do so. Boyfic really just isn't my thing. Which I think might be why I love Utena so much, but don't care at all for Eva. That, and Utena has much less annoying main characters.

[ibby]

I voted 1.Utena 2.Escaflowne 3.Evangelion

[jaylee]

1-Utena is awesome.
2-Escaflowne is good.
3-Evangelion sucks.

[battle001]

i voted
1.Evangelion 2.Escaflowne 3.Utena

i never saw Utena
I liked Escaflowne, but did not think it was anything to special
Eva is the only show i watch two++ times a year. in a collection were less than 10% has been watched a second time.

as far as impact on the industry, Eva has to be the king. the two female leads still get new figures made of them every year, ten+ years after the show aired.

[ohtori_akio]

Replying to myself but:

1.Utena is a benchmark for me. I had trouble warming up to a lot of shows after seeing Utena but I have come to accept that it is unique and nothing could really be like it. I adore it because I find all the characters to be relatable and the story keeps you guessing and is infectious all the way through. I loved how it was all set up and how they got to the end, to this day there really isn't anything that tells a story like Utena does.

2. Escaflowne is to me the best mecha I've seen! I think this is probably because Escaflowne is a mecha anime that is the least like a Mecha anime out of the mechas I've seen (sorry about the repeated words). I love the epic feel of the show, the artwork is amazing (even if the noses take some adjusting to), the characters are really awesome and even though so much happened in the anime I never felt like they were rushing through anything! Love it /images/graemlins/happy.gif

3. Evangelion is one series I really wanted to like. At times I was really liking it, until they undid everything by having all sorts of archetypes in the show. It felt (with the characters) like they were trying to cover all bases to cater to a broad audience (Rei as the quiet one, Asuka the bitch and Misato the mother). It made me feel that the show was quite sexist as the females were pretty much just that, especially in Shinji's head. Granted, there are moments where they did more with it but it all felt forced to me and I couldn't relate. I also didn't like the way the show was biting off more that it could chew (philosophy, psychology and religion). Because they tried to do so much, I don't feel that they convincingly did any of them justice.

If we're talking movies, this list remains the same but Utena is light years ahead of the other two. The Escaflowne movie has some good bits but unlike the series, it felt rushed. End of Eva is really bad. It's pretentious, grandiloquent, overblown (look at how much footage from the series was used) and doesn't know when to stop. <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>For me this would be right at the start if you know the scene!</span>

[gsilver0]

Utena is awesome, and my favorite anime of all time.

Evangelion is very good, and extremely influential.

Escaflowne... It's OK, but I never really got into that one.

[BluWacky]

I ranked them as follows:

i) Escaflowne - the anime that turned me into a proper fan, and it's still my all-time favourite. Breakneck convoluted plotting, great production values, top-notch acting and the perfect emotional vibe; Kazuki Akane and Shoji Kawamori are absolute legends.

ii) Utena - it's probably better than Esca, really (despite occasionally ropey animation), but I rank it slightly lower because I find it a little "cold"; I can't devote my heart to Utena, only my brain.

iii) Evangelion - I plain don't like the show because the first half isn't really all that innovative and the characters are hateful.

[johnmora]

The forums seem to skew quite a bit towards shoujo, so I'm not all that surprised by the results (or the fact that SuperGALS! Season 2 has a 50+ page topic...).

[ZhenJi]

I had to go with Esca, Eva, Utena.

I am still working through Utena, I started it 3 years ago /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif. I will finish it soon, I promise.

I have a love/hate relationship with Eva. I love the story, the Evas, the character (maybe not Shinji), but the last disk makes me want to hurt people.

Escaflowne is a beatiful show, Merle is awesome and the music great. I wish there were more shows like it. Some parts made me go "meh" but I really enoyed it overall.

[Isuzu Inugami]

1. Utena. The depth of character given to virtually everyone, and the whole deconstruction of the archtypal fairy tale and commentary on gender assumptions... it's a show that's full of riches.

2. Evangelion. I think the mindfuckery is not quite as well carried off as in Utena, but again this is a show with very deep characterization and very high ambitions.

3. Escaflowne. It's a good fantasy adventure show, and I do enjoy it, but it doesn't have the ambition to exceed the anime artform that I see in Utena and Eva, and I don't really think of it as being in the same league. Sorry, Esca-fans!

[CharUC0087]

Those are three big high ranking series there. It's kind of hard to rank them because I love all of them. Escaflowne was one of the first anime where I didn't wait for the dub and got the whole thing in subbed VHS. I loved every minute of it. The characters and music were fantastic. I finally finished watching Utena the yesterday. I had a terrific time following that series but like Evangelion I'm a bit confused with the ending. Evangelion I watched a couple of years ago. I never liked the main character Shinji because unlike Amuro Ray of Mobile Suit Gundam, he never changed and grew up. He remained the same spineless wimp he was when he started. That be said I loved the supporting characters of that show especially Misato. I guess if I were to rank them by how much I enjoyed them it would be:

1. Escaflowne
2. Utena
3. Evangelion

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

[ QUOTE ]
ZhenJi said:

I am still working through Utena, I started it 3 years ago /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif. I will finish it soon, I promise.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you waiting for?! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Oh wait a minute... it took me 10 years to finally see Escaflowne... never mind! /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif Though, I did do the whole series in about a month once I started. You're still forgiven (by me) though.

Utena will put your brain in a blender... and just wait until you see the movie!

[ohtori_akio]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
Utena will put your brain in a blender... and just wait until you see the movie!

[/ QUOTE ]

Talking about movies, which of the three series do you guys think had the best movie?

[aquapermanence]

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
Talking about movies, which of the three series do you guys think had the best movie?

[/ QUOTE ]

Eva.

::turns around to see Ritsuko has typed this response on the screen and dissolves into orange slush::

[ZhenJi]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
[ QUOTE ]
ZhenJi said:

I am still working through Utena, I started it 3 years ago /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif. I will finish it soon, I promise.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you waiting for?! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Oh wait a minute... it took me 10 years to finally see Escaflowne... never mind! /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif Though, I did do the whole series in about a month once I started. You're still forgiven (by me) though.

Utena will put your brain in a blender... and just wait until you see the movie!

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen the movie, maybe that's the reason I took a break from Utena, hehe. I like the show, I just don't have time to watch a lot of anime these days. I have 2 disks to go.

[Puppet Master]

Escaflowne for being better than it's TV version(really didn't like the TV show.) Could barely get through an episode of the other two shows.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
Talking about movies, which of the three series do you guys think had the best movie?

[/ QUOTE ]

::thinks about Top 10 Anime Thread and probably half of my postings to date::

umm... Utena? /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Adolescence Apocalypse is the perfect example of my favorite kind of film. The symbolism doesn't get much richer than in the Utena movie. It's also so wildly surreal and abstract, and makes you think about what every last detail means in the movie. I still see something new in it every time I watch it. And then there's the soundtrack. Oh, the soundtrack. Illusion ~ Malice's Pupa gives me chills every single time. /images/graemlins/stunned1.gif Best. Soundtrack. Ever.

Next is A Girl in Gaea. A good darker telling of Escaflowne, though the change in Hitomi was a little startling at first.

Then come the Evangelion movie/s, which are good... End of Evangelion messes with my head in almost the same way as Adolescence Apocalypse.

So, in the end, it's the Utena movie by light years, then Escaflowne and Eva about tied. I enjoy them all though.

[Shsway]

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
Talking about movies, which of the three series do you guys think had the best movie?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't seen the Escaflowne movie yet, but End of Eva is soooo great. It made me terribly ill, depressed, than uber-happy and content by the end. I'd never had an experience quite like that one before.

[Dagger]

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
Talking about movies, which of the three series do you guys think had the best movie?

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't seen the Escaflowne movie yet, but End of Eva is soooo great. It made me terribly ill, depressed, than uber-happy and content by the end. I'd never had an experience quite like that one before.

[/ QUOTE ]
I went from terribly ill &amp; depressed to uber-happy &amp; content--and then right back again. I envy you if you came away from that final scene with a sense of happiness or even plain old satisfaction. I had trouble sleeping after I finished it. /images/graemlins/sad.gif

[Shsway]

[ QUOTE ]
Dagger said:
I had trouble sleeping after I finished it. /images/graemlins/sad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It helped that I listened to the commentary track included with the disc, right after my viewing. I needed something to focus one of my senses on, in order to make that super-tense energy level come down. The commentary was silly in just the right spots, I didn't look back at the screen and just...zoned.

If you can believe it, I actually bought the soundtrack shortly afterwards and listened to it for the first time before bed one night. THEN I had trouble sleeping. It rocked.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
If you can believe it, I actually bought the soundtrack shortly afterwards and listened to it for the first time before bed one night. THEN I had trouble sleeping. It rocked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Opening of Dream still gives me massive chills every time I listen to it.

[Vicserr]

TV series:
*Escaflowne
*Evangelion
I haven't seen Utena

Movies
*Evangelion
*Escaflowne
I haven't seen Utena

[Anime_Fire]

Utena is at the very top of my list no matter what series I compare it to. Every time I watch that show, I see new layers and meaning, and actually gets better each time. And the last episode was one roller coaster of emotions... I still remember when I first watched it, I was 14 sitting frozen on my chair with my eyes wide open in shock the whole time.

Then three years later, my English teacher made us read Herman Hesse's Damien. Halfway through, I realized just how much of Utena is being paralleled from Damien. When In finished the book, the ending of Utena finally made sense to me.

Escaflowne is easily my second favorite, just because of its epic-ness, direction, and fantasy. The music helped of course.

I appreciate Evangelion, but don't really like it. I saw it once, enjoyed trying to decipher it for a while, but I don't really want to see it again.

So Utena, Escaflowne, then Eva. Except I didn't look where I was clicking and accidently chose Esca, Utena, Eva as my favorite order. Whoops.

[bender]

Of the three, I haven't seen Utena yet(Have the second and third box sets, syill waiting for DVDpacific to send the first /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif).

Escaflowne though, is just one of the finest anime series I've had the pleasure of viewing. A great, well paced, fantasy tale with some great characters and one of the best soundtracks ever come together just beautifully. I love the series, can;t put it any better than that.

Evangelion I'm not so hot on. I enjoyed it years back when I first saw it, right up until the last few episodes, which were quite honestly the most annoying cop out of a finale I could possibly imagine for the series. When it was good, it was really good, but when it was bad, it was just awful sadly. Not a series I'll look back on with too much fondness unfortunately.

[AmericanBeauty]

Seems most of the people here who actually like Evangelion like it more for its historical impact than its actual quality. Hmmm...

[DeadlyMessiah]

Escaflowne and Utena. Evangelion can't even touch those two.

[J-Syxx]

Utena. No contest.

[mandisaw]

[ QUOTE ]
BluWacky said:
I ranked them as follows:

i) Escaflowne - the anime that turned me into a proper fan, and it's still my all-time favourite. Breakneck convoluted plotting, great production values, top-notch acting and the perfect emotional vibe; Kazuki Akane and Shoji Kawamori are absolute legends.

ii) Utena - it's probably better than Esca, really (despite occasionally ropey animation), but I rank it slightly lower because I find it a little "cold"; I can't devote my heart to Utena, only my brain.

iii) Evangelion - I plain don't like the show because the first half isn't really all that innovative and the characters are hateful.

[/ QUOTE ]
This pretty much sums it up for me, with a couple of differences.

Escaflowne, along with Fushigi Yuugi, were the first fansubs I ever actively watched (not my first subbed anime, though). The characters and settings were richly designed, the plot was just as crunchy as the sci-fi/fantasy paperbacks I read in high school, and the music was transcendent. I hooked several non-anime watchers on the series, and to this day, it has great rewatchability.

Esca's only drawback is that while it was planned as a 39-ep series, it only had the budget for 26-eps. That caused it to break pace and get a bit rushed in the last third of the show, so I put it in second place.

Utena accomplished much of what Esca attempted. Characters had depth, subtlety, and motivations for their actions, all things that Eva lacked. Strictly speaking, Utena uses a magical-girl formula, with its duel-of-the-day format, but the repetition helps to ground the oft-times stylized and convoluted plot developments. And of course, the ending (or the entire last arc) blows away whatever conventions or notions you might have about magical-girl shows.

Pulling originality from a cliche always scores points with me, so this one's in first place. Utena's too dense to just pick up any favorite episode, unlike Esca, so the rewatchability is limited to complete arc-marathons.

Eva reached for the brass ring and missed completely. I recognize that it was trying to grapple with some difficult and controversial topics, but it just used the language of religion and philosophy without offering much interpretation or analysis (organic mecha designs + angsty teens &lt;&gt; philosophical debate).

Also, Shinji's main difference from a standard shounen fight-show hero was that he didn't grow or change as a person. I love shounen fight-show heroes, but they're supposed to rise to the occasion and either make things better or make them worse, but Shinji just let things happen to him. (He makes a good uke-character in doujinshi for that reason.) In Esca and in Utena, the supporting characters had sub-plots of their own, but Eva just offered a weak sort of two-man-harem principle: everyone else either loved or hated Shinji and/or Gendou.

The movies for all three series are somewhat weaker in plot development than the TV version, and all are higher in weirds--t. I've had the good fortune to see all four movies on the big screen, but I couldn't say which was best, since they were all high on production value but low on actual merit.

[johnmora]

[ QUOTE ]
Esca's only drawback is that while it was planned as a 39-ep series, it only had the budget for 26-eps. That caused it to break pace and get a bit rushed in the last third of the show, so I put it in second place.


[/ QUOTE ] I was under the impression that the episode cut happened before the show aired, and Kawamori just lopped off a side story and condensed the rest of the plot in order to fit it, not that its run was somehow cut short after it had already begun airing.

[mandisaw]

[ QUOTE ]
johnmora said:
[ QUOTE ]
Esca's only drawback is that while it was planned as a 39-ep series, it only had the budget for 26-eps. That caused it to break pace and get a bit rushed in the last third of the show, so I put it in second place.


[/ QUOTE ] I was under the impression that the episode cut happened before the show aired, and Kawamori just lopped off a side story and condensed the rest of the plot in order to fit it, not that its run was somehow cut short after it had already begun airing.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd have to double-check one of the interview transcripts to be sure, but I'm pretty sure the cut happened after the episode planning had all been done. Whether the show was airing on TV already or not, reworking the pacing after its already been planned out probably causes some fluster.

[BurtKenobi]

One of the things I love about Escaflowne is that headlong rush to the conclusion. There's barely time for a slow episode in the entire 26.

I would honestly find it difficult to choose between them - they're 3 of my favourite shows and each one has a different place in my heart. Eva showed that anime could be deep, dark and weird. Esca showed me it could be epic, magical, and sad. (can't think of a phrase for utena)

All 3 showed how the cliches of each genre could be used in new and exciting ways.

J