New generation of bootleggers. What to do?

[Trey-Trey]

Bootlegging has become more sophisticated. Recently I've been seeing more and more auctions by this seller: custom_specialists (http://stores.ebay.com/Custom-Specialists-Notebook-Store_Game-Soundtrack-Collections_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ15QQftidZ2QQtZk m)

He's made mass copies of video game soundtracks and is repackaging them using foil lettering and even going as far as putting a limited edition number on it. He's selling the things like hot cakes. Ridiculous. I tried reporting him to Ebay but they only let me send them an item number. How good is Ebay at handling stuff like this? Bootlegs are getting harder to verify.

What's even worse is that he does have authentic auctions (http://cgi.ebay.com/CASTLEVANIA-Lament-of-Innocence-Soundtrack-REALORIGINAL_W0QQitemZ4834743650QQihZ003QQcategory Z307QQcmdZViewItem) that say "real original", "not a CD-R or bootleg". But then he goes and sells other bootlegs touting them as "original soundtracks imported from Japan. To me this is even worse than those people who sell those Taiwan CDs. What a farking hypocrite!!!!

Has anyone else dealt with losers like this and if so, is there a better place to report them except "Look-the-other-way E-Bay"?

[ape2020]

To go after a seller requires a lot of complaints from many eBayers. We has seen some sellers targeted by us be removed. But like I said it seem to take a lot of effort by a lot of people to nail one of these guys.

I've tried by myself to alert eBay of a seller in the Mature section selling obivious bootlegs. I would report ten items at a time and did it for like a whole week on dozens of their auctions. But nothing happened and if you think DVD/Anime section is littered with boots check out the Mature/DVD section its sicking.

-chimp1010

PS its nothing really new seeing professional looking boots. Just look as some of the shit coming out of asia. Hell some are so professionally done honest retailers have been duped by them. Some even are better packaged then offical region 1 releases.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
Trey-Trey said:
How good is Ebay at handling stuff like this?

[/ QUOTE ]
They aren't. They don't care about our reports, and don't even want to remove them, if you ask me. They'll only do so if the license holder cracks down.

[ QUOTE ]
is there a better place to report them except "Look-the-other-way E-Bay"?

[/ QUOTE ]
You could try to report to the license holder, but most of them seem little more inclined than eBay to do anything about it.

[mcarocks2003]

As much as i'd like to be proved wrong, Ebay only care about making money through seller fees and sales commisions.

Ebay only remove auctions when there is blatant evidence in order to protect their business from any kind of legal action.

The Bootleg market on Ebay is the ugly side of the market which unfortunately seems to be growing each year. For every 1 legitimate dvd of a popular anime series there seems to be 20 or 30 bootlegs camoflaging it.

As much as it is Ebay's responsibility, Anime Companies really could be doing more to monitor the situation, hiring personel to remove their licensed material from retailers, online auctions and torrent sites.

[mighty_vespa]

*sigh*

And all it takes is a little research on the part of the consumer to figure out that these auctions are bullshit. Sooner or later, these asswipes will figure out how to cheaply duplicate holo-foil, foil-embossed lettering and speciality pages (like acetate or vellum) in artbooks. Hell, they might've done so already, for all I know.

Depressing as hell because there's nothing worthwhile anyone can do about it.

[slerch666]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
They aren't. They don't care about our reports, and don't even want to remove them, if you ask me. They'll only do so if the license holder cracks down.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is essentially correct. The problem is that they won a court battle that told them that as long as they have a little due diligence, if an illegal or counterfeit product IS sold on their site, they aren't liable for its sale. This equates into, "please report counterfeit items, but don't be surprised when we just let the items go."

For the record, however, I've had some success in getting some sellers shutdown (OK, 2) when I reported ALL of the bootlegs they were selling. Evidently selling nothing but bootlegs on eBay is a bad idea if you've got 30+ auctions running for them at a time.

[ QUOTE ]

You could try to report to the license holder, but most of them seem little more inclined than eBay to do anything about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
If they aren't part of eBay's "Vero" protection scheme, akin to mafia bosses offering "protection" to stores, they will pretty much yank any auction you report. Of course, they do this because they make money from you when you join the Vero program.

The worst part IMO are power sellers, as these are eBay's bread and butter and they aren't as inclined to do anything about them as they would if say, a member here sold an R2 DVD and someone reported it(which has happened).

If we all email the fraud dept maybe eBay would do something about this particular jerk off?

[guyver83]

[ QUOTE ]
slerch666 said:
[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
They aren't. They don't care about our reports, and don't even want to remove them, if you ask me. They'll only do so if the license holder cracks down.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is essentially correct. The problem is that they won a court battle that told them that as long as they have a little due diligence, if an illegal or counterfeit product IS sold on their site, they aren't liable for its sale. This equates into, "please report counterfeit items, but don't be surprised when we just let the items go."

For the record, however, I've had some success in getting some sellers shutdown (OK, 2) when I reported ALL of the bootlegs they were selling. Evidently selling nothing but bootlegs on eBay is a bad idea if you've got 30+ auctions running for them at a time.

[ QUOTE ]

You could try to report to the license holder, but most of them seem little more inclined than eBay to do anything about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
If they aren't part of eBay's "Vero" protection scheme, akin to mafia bosses offering "protection" to stores, they will pretty much yank any auction you report. Of course, they do this because they make money from you when you join the Vero program.

The worst part IMO are power sellers, as these are eBay's bread and butter and they aren't as inclined to do anything about them as they would if say, a member here sold an R2 DVD and someone reported it(which has happened).

If we all email the fraud dept maybe eBay would do something about this particular jerk off?

[/ QUOTE ]

we all can go to austin and BEAT HIS ASS! /images/graemlins/devil.gif

[slerch666]

For a little fun, let's all report the seller's auctions. For convenience, I've copied and pasted his auction items in easy to copy and paste 10 item listings.

4880199699,120005783385,120005741897,290005204200, 290005204503,290005205043,120006798445,29000520626 7,120005742854

290005206009,300005027842,120005742529,4852538011, 300005917088,300006056917,290006131684,29000613124 6,290006165501,300005917402

300005919630,290006156017,120006794565,12000679477 1,300005943772,300005944949,300006661155,488342319 5,300006640507


Well, that's most of what is on the first page. To report him, log into eBay and click here. (http://cgi1.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=InlineSelfHelpWebfor m&wftype=2023&rcode=BN%25P10308&subject=Unauthoriz ed%20Copies%20of%20Media&bcrumb=+Home+>+Help+>%A0R ules+and+Policies%A0>%A0Rules+about+Intellectual+P roperty%A0>%A0Replica%2C+Counterfeit+Items+and+Una uthorized+Copies&instruction=&expirationDate=) Simply copy and paste my item numbers into the form that turns up, report it, then click back and copy and paste the next set of item numbers.

If enough people complain, maybe eBay will actually do something. It's worth a try anyway...

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
slerch666 said:
The worst part IMO are power sellers, as these are eBay's bread and butter and they aren't as inclined to do anything about them as they would if say, a member here sold an R2 DVD and someone reported it(which has happened).

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're referencing that Azumanga R2 disc that was pulled, I do wonder what ever happened to that. I PM'd the poster to ask if he could let me know how it turned out, but never did find out.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
slerch666 said:
If enough people complain, maybe eBay will actually do something. It's worth a try anyway...

[/ QUOTE ]

All of the above reported. Let's hope. Too bad there isn't an easier way though.

[slerch666]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
All of the above reported. Let's hope. Too bad there isn't an easier way though.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding? If it were easier to use AND easier to FIND, people might actually USE it...

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
slerch666 said:
[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
All of the above reported. Let's hope. Too bad there isn't an easier way though.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding? If it were easier to use AND easier to FIND, people might actually USE it...

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, indeed, perish the thought that eBayers should have to go through less than a dozen levels of menu before they can report an illegal listing /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

How can you tell these are bootlegs?

[slerch666]

[ QUOTE ]
Steve_Man said:
How can you tell these are bootlegs?

[/ QUOTE ]
Those collections don't exist in the legit world?

They appear to come in a DVD case, something I'm not aware of any official CDs doing?

These CDs look like they may be SonMay or Ever Anime complete collections or something. NEITHER company sells legit goods. You can school yourself on bootleg CDs here (http://www.digital.anime.org.uk/piratefaq.html#acd) and school yourself on other bootleg goods here (http://www.digital.anime.org.uk/piratefaq.html).

Please no one buy from this douche bag seller.

[Trey-Trey]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
[ QUOTE ]
slerch666 said:
[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
All of the above reported. Let's hope. Too bad there isn't an easier way though.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you kidding? If it were easier to use AND easier to FIND, people might actually USE it...

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha, indeed, perish the thought that eBayers should have to go through less than a dozen levels of menu before they can report an illegal listing /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Seriously. I had to do 2 word searches in the help section before I even found anything related to reporting counterfeit merchandise.

[Trey-Trey]

[ QUOTE ]
slerch666 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Steve_Man said:
How can you tell these are bootlegs?

[/ QUOTE ]
Those collections don't exist in the legit world?

They appear to come in a DVD case, something I'm not aware of any official CDs doing?

These CDs look like they may be SonMay or Ever Anime complete collections or something. NEITHER company sells legit goods. You can school yourself on bootleg CDs here (http://www.digital.anime.org.uk/piratefaq.html#acd) and school yourself on other bootleg goods here (http://www.digital.anime.org.uk/piratefaq.html).

Please no one buy from this douche bag seller.

[/ QUOTE ]
From the way these are made it looks like he made them himself. It would've just boiled down to a simple photoshop job but the foil lettering and the "limited edition" number (such bullshit), is throwing people off. It just blows me away at the audacity of bootleggers. As I said before it's one thing to sell Taiwan CD's and claim ignorance, but it's totally another thing to copy it yourself, repackage it and claim it's official merchandise from Japan.

[slerch666]

[ QUOTE ]
Trey-Trey said:
From the way these are made it looks like he made them himself. It would've just boiled down to a simple photoshop job but the foil lettering and the "limited edition" number (such bullshit), is throwing people off. It just blows me away at the audacity of bootleggers. As I said before it's one thing to sell Taiwan CD's and claim ignorance, but it's totally another thing to copy it yourself, repackage it and claim it's official merchandise from Japan.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I was reading through his feedback (almost 3000 positives will of ~12 negatives). Some of the negative feedback auctions are still live and in the feedback it says "Ever Anime is a bootleg company." This was for one of his "limited" collections, so that makes me think all the collections are likely Ever Anime. I could be wrong and you can bet your ass I'm not going to buy to find out for myself!

In his replies to his negatives, he claims these are official and pressed in Japan. Guess he has Taiwan and Japan mixed up! "They all speak a foreign language, don't they? It's all Chinese to me!" /sarcasm

The other way to tell these aren't legit is that there is no way in hell an 18 disc collection from Japan would only be $80-$100. You'd be looking at more like $200-$300 at least.

[mcarocks2003]

These are 100% bootlegs, they are defintly homemade.

Final Fantasy Soundtracks have never been bundled together.

You can only buy them seperatly and they come in jewel cases.

The problem here is the seller has a feedback score of 2800 and is using a professional custom template for his listings.

I have reported the item numbers slerch666 posted. As much it would make me happy i can't see Ebay removing either this seller's account or listings.

[slerch666]

[ QUOTE ]
mcarocks2003 said:
These are 100% bootlegs, they are defintly homemade.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought they were home made as well... at first, until I saw feedback stating on one of the collections that it was an Ever Anime title. Unless the jackass seller is buying "legit" Ever Anime bootlegs, copying their logo and printing up covers for his bootleg of a bootleg collection. Which is entirely possible.

[Trey-Trey]

It makes me wonder if he's taking the "Ever Anime" CD's and repackaging them. If he has an account with them it's easy to buy in bulk and then repackage. I've never seen anything from Ever Anime or Son May of this quality... (if you could call it quality).

[slerch666]

[ QUOTE ]
Trey-Trey said:
It makes me wonder if he's taking the "Ever Anime" CD's and repackaging them. If he has an account with them it's easy to buy in bulk and then repackage. I've never seen anything from Ever Anime or Son May of this quality... (if you could call it quality).

[/ QUOTE ]
I unknowingly bought a 2 disc Two-Mix set that was SonMay. When I realized what it was and sought to purchase the legit CDs and then compared the 2, it's obvious that the SonMay CDs were a poor, poor rip off of the originals. Crappy paper, piss poor art quality and fuzzy text abound. These don't seem much better or worse to me...

It wouldn't surprise me if a bootleg company thought it was more profitable to bundle CDs together, but who knows. No one with 1/2 a brain should buy from this used condom of a seller.

If we could see actual images of the CDs it would be a little more helpful. I should email and ask for pics from an open set...

[Trey-Trey]

[ QUOTE ]
guyver83 said:
[ QUOTE ]
slerch666 said:
[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
They aren't. They don't care about our reports, and don't even want to remove them, if you ask me. They'll only do so if the license holder cracks down.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is essentially correct. The problem is that they won a court battle that told them that as long as they have a little due diligence, if an illegal or counterfeit product IS sold on their site, they aren't liable for its sale. This equates into, "please report counterfeit items, but don't be surprised when we just let the items go."

For the record, however, I've had some success in getting some sellers shutdown (OK, 2) when I reported ALL of the bootlegs they were selling. Evidently selling nothing but bootlegs on eBay is a bad idea if you've got 30+ auctions running for them at a time.

[ QUOTE ]

You could try to report to the license holder, but most of them seem little more inclined than eBay to do anything about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
If they aren't part of eBay's "Vero" protection scheme, akin to mafia bosses offering "protection" to stores, they will pretty much yank any auction you report. Of course, they do this because they make money from you when you join the Vero program.

The worst part IMO are power sellers, as these are eBay's bread and butter and they aren't as inclined to do anything about them as they would if say, a member here sold an R2 DVD and someone reported it(which has happened).

If we all email the fraud dept maybe eBay would do something about this particular jerk off?

[/ QUOTE ]

we all can go to austin and BEAT HIS ASS! /images/graemlins/devil.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I have an idea for the meantime. Write out exactly what this guy is doing and what he's selling (creating his own "limited edition") and then e-mailing it to every bidder on all of his auctions.
Copy & paste, paste, paste, paste...

[kimani]

[ QUOTE ]
Trey-Trey said:
[ QUOTE ]
guyver83 said:
[ QUOTE ]
slerch666 said:
[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
They aren't. They don't care about our reports, and don't even want to remove them, if you ask me. They'll only do so if the license holder cracks down.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is essentially correct. The problem is that they won a court battle that told them that as long as they have a little due diligence, if an illegal or counterfeit product IS sold on their site, they aren't liable for its sale. This equates into, "please report counterfeit items, but don't be surprised when we just let the items go."

For the record, however, I've had some success in getting some sellers shutdown (OK, 2) when I reported ALL of the bootlegs they were selling. Evidently selling nothing but bootlegs on eBay is a bad idea if you've got 30+ auctions running for them at a time.

[ QUOTE ]

You could try to report to the license holder, but most of them seem little more inclined than eBay to do anything about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
If they aren't part of eBay's "Vero" protection scheme, akin to mafia bosses offering "protection" to stores, they will pretty much yank any auction you report. Of course, they do this because they make money from you when you join the Vero program.

The worst part IMO are power sellers, as these are eBay's bread and butter and they aren't as inclined to do anything about them as they would if say, a member here sold an R2 DVD and someone reported it(which has happened).

If we all email the fraud dept maybe eBay would do something about this particular jerk off?

[/ QUOTE ]

we all can go to austin and BEAT HIS ASS! /images/graemlins/devil.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I have an idea for the meantime. Write out exactly what this guy is doing and what he's selling (creating his own "limited edition") and then e-mailing it to every bidder on all of his auctions.
Copy & paste, paste, paste, paste...

[/ QUOTE ]

Good intentions, but if you are a eBay member you can get your account cut for auction interference.

[kusanagi-sama]

Is it possible to start a class action lawsuit agains eBay for knowingly allowing bootlegs to be sold?

[slerch666]

[ QUOTE ]
kusanagi-sama said:
Is it possible to start a class action lawsuit agains eBay for knowingly allowing bootlegs to be sold?

[/ QUOTE ]
I've already explained this above.

They were taken to court over the illegal stuff being sold on their site (bootlegs, counterfeits and so on). The law found them to NOT to be responsible for their member's listings (if eBay had to police the millions of items, they'd shut down instantly as it would be impossible to run a business this way). They need to uphold due diligence, which means closing down auctions when it hits them in the face that what the person is selling is illegal or gray market. This is why you can report auctions. This also allowed them to open another avenue of revenue, that being their Vero "protection" scheme. Basically what Vero does is, after you've paid your dues, anytime that copyright holder or other Vero member contacts eBay about an offending item for sale, they pull the auction immediately. It's the whole mafia protection scheme.