Evangelion -- Is it appreciated more than genuinely liked??

[AmericanBeauty]

I made a comment over in the "Evangelion, Escaflowne, Utena" thread in this same forum that those who watched and liked Evangelion seemed to have liked it more for its historical impact than its actual quality. Would that comment be accurate? Do more people admire it for its audacity and ambitiousness moreso than how the show actually turned as an anime?

I ask because maybe it's just me, but nowadays there don't appear to be too many HUGE fans of Eva and there seems to have been a small backlash against the show as more and more people see what the fuss is about.

So do any of you look at Eva as a show to be watched out of obligation as an anime fan or because it really is the greatest anime ever made...?

[StudioZEL]

I dunno, back in 97 when I started collecting the VHS I was pretty blown away by it... o.o

[jecca-neko]

[ QUOTE ]
Air Of Benevolence said:
So do any of you look at Eva as a show to be watched out of obligation as an anime fan or because it really is the greatest anime ever made...?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. That's the same reason I watched Ninja Scroll, Akira, and Vampire Hunter D.

Since then I have learned that I am far better off only going for anime I know I'll like, and never to watch anime just out of obligation. Everything I've ever watched out of obligation I thought was mediocre or just okay.

[Teiresias]

[ QUOTE ]
Air Of Benevolence said:

I ask because maybe it's just me, but nowadays there don't appear to be too many HUGE fans of Eva and there seems to have been a small backlash against the show as more and more people see what the fuss is about.


[/ QUOTE ]

Guess you're not really watching the poll thread then?

EVA Ruling AoD poll by a long shot (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1375439&page=1&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1)

And to answer the question: No, I don't like it for its historical significance alone.

I consider it an infuriating masterpiece, an unmatched clusterfuck, and a never-to-be-seen-again hash. And for this, I consider it great, if not the greatest.

[DrMM]

I admire Evangelion because I think it's an amazing series, in terms of character, plot and creativity. It was obviously influential as well and qualifies as a 'best' anime, IMO.

However, while I think it's a great series and it's a series I like, the same elements of it that make it great, also drop it out of my 'favorite' series list. As much as I admire it and think it's a 'great' series, it's not nearly as fun to watch as some of my favorite shows (Escaflowne, Sailor Moon, etc.). It's just too serious to have a lot of fun with, especially towards the end.

I never watched it out of obligation and I don't regret watching it or buying the DVD's, however it is a series I do admire more than like.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

I do like Evangelion, both the series and the movies... or I never would have upgraded to Platinum for the 5.1 and picture restoration/jitter removal. That said, I find it highly unlikely I'll be dropping a week's pay to get the 10th anniversary box. I like the series, but too much is too much. I've bought the series twice, and that will likely be it, until the 3D hologram version of it comes out in 15 years and everything gets upgraded. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

It didn't make my Top 10 list for that thread, but had I listed Honorable Mentions it would likely have been one of them. I still find it a very engaging series, and enjoy it on repeat viewings.

[BigPants]

[ QUOTE ]
DrMM said:
I admire Evangelion because I think it's an amazing series, in terms of character, plot and creativity. It was obviously influential as well and qualifies as a 'best' anime, IMO.

However, while I think it's a great series and it's a series I like, the same elements of it that make it great, also drop it out of my 'favorite' series list. As much as I admire it and think it's a 'great' series, it's not nearly as fun to watch as some of my favorite shows (Escaflowne, Sailor Moon, etc.). It's just too serious to have a lot of fun with, especially towards the end.

I never watched it out of obligation and I don't regret watching it or buying the DVD's, however it is a series I do admire more than like.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the along the same lines that I was thinking exactly.

I've probably watched the show... 8 times all the way through (mostly in Spanish) and never as an obligation. When some friends asked me to put together a list of my ten favorite anime (along with pages of notes why), Evangelion made sixth on the list. And I didn't want to put it on there at first, because I didn't want to hear "Oh, that's just on there because it's so important/popular/whatever," but when I really thought about it, it's a well-done show. The characters and their interaction really make it for me. I think Kaworu is one of the best characters I've seen in anime and he shows up for one episode and really... makes things go crazy. (Ok, that's a different post altogether really).

But I can totally appreciate and recognize its impact in fandom and the industry, and I think it has been well-earned and I genuinely love watching the show.

[Lego]

Eva, while being a good show(to me), is one of those "yeh I saw that" animes. It's like being a movie buff and going "yeh I saw Casablanca". Like Bebop, it pops up on lists for required viewing now and then. Personally, while I can see the appeal of the series, it didn't do it for me at all. I cared more about Pen Pen than Shinji. I think it's like anything that you hold up to a high standard. After seeing so many titles since Eva aired, comparing Eva using todays standards makes it seem like a average show.

I think Eva's importance isn't on how good it's or how many units it sold, but its effect on the anime industry in both the US and Japan.

[Suwako Moriya]

I checked out Eva not because I felt obligated, but I was a bit curious. However I can say after finishing Eva, I find it to be over all average. I'm also not going to waste my time with the movies.

[Suwako Moriya]

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jecca-neko said:
Everything I've ever watched out of obligation I thought was mediocre or just okay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah honestly I've also learned that watching shows out of obligation is a bad idea for multiple reasons. It becomes harder to enjoy the series because it goes from being play to being work. Also while obligation may be fine for checking out the first two or three episodes at best.

If beyond that the only reason one is watching a show is obligation then it's obvious that the said is not that good based on the person's own personal tastes. Of course it may be good based on my divine tastes. Yes I have an ego and I don't care.

[Lumberjack]

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Anri Misugi said:
I checked out Eva not because I felt obligated, but I was a bit curious. However I can say after finishing Eva, I find it to be over all average. I'm also not going to waste my time with the movies.

[/ QUOTE ]

I approached the series with a similar view, but unfortunately, I watched the movies as well. The box set is sitting on my shelf and I'm sure I'll watch it again sometime in the future...but I'm really in no hurry.

[jojo_home]

I used to really like Eva but it's dated pretty badly on subsequent viewings. The low production values make it difficult to sit through compared to some of the newer stuff and even some of the older anime. Eva helped pioneer a lot of the annoying cost-cutting techniques (lengthy static shots with virtually no animation, strategically posed characters to cut down on animation) that plague some of even the best anime today.

That just leaves the story and themes, which come across as obnoxious and pretentious to newer anime fans.

It's one of those anime, where, if you were around when it first came out in 1996, and later in North America around 1998, it was really exciting because it managed to hit on many of the social themes that was prominent in Japan and to a certain extent, in the West as well. Alienation and self-consciousness was finally kicked into the North American anime spotlight. In Japan, it was an update of the MSG formula and that was exciting for young people there too.

I still like the show, but yeah, I suppose I appreciate it more for its historical impact than overall quality. It still does have moments of naked, raw emotion that cut pretty deep, though, that many me-too anime since then still haven't been able to touch. I suppose that's what makes Eva truly great--its rawness and honesty. It may not be hot stuff production-values wise, or even storywise, but it's got a passion and emotion to it that obviously means something to its director that other, even better-made anime do not.

[Natsume_Maya]

[ QUOTE ]
Air Of Benevolence said:
So do any of you look at Eva as a show to be watched out of obligation as an anime fan or because it really is the greatest anime ever made...?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd consider myself a huge fan of Eva. It's got nothing to do with Eva's place in the history of anime, whatever that place is. I wouldn't care how it's regarded by others, whether it's praised by others or criticised by others. (I doubt it's the greatest anime ever made - then again, I never bother to try to rank/compare things. I posted to the top 10 list, but didn't bother to rank my picks, which did include Eva.)

I like the series because I enjoy the storyline and the direction.

[Redcoffin]

I saw Eva shortly after it first appeared, I liked it for itself alone. It was great, at the start, in all ways an animated TV show ought to be great, and also great in ways that anime had rarely tried to be great in. It floundered towards the end, and the movies all stank, especially the one which had good enough production values to stink really expensively. But the first 2/3 of the series were genuinely good, on their own.

As for historical impact--meh. RahXephon was a far more polished, far more satisfyingly-ended, far better animated show that attempted a similar story. It was better in every way than Evangelion, except for the one that mattered: it wasn't as interesting. The storytelling in Eva was just better, though more broken, though more chaotic, though it slipped into nonsense toward the end. Eva had something that nothing else had, and that darn few things have had since.

[Arcturus]

I saw Eva just as I was becoming an anime fan, and wasn't really aware of its status among fandom at the time (about five years ago).

My opinion is that it's a very good show, but the final two episodes prevent me from saying it's one of the all-time greats. When I first watched it I would have said it was one of the all-time greats, but that's mostly because at the time, all I had really seen were Eva, Nadesico, Tylor, Magic Users Club, and Tenchi.

Should every anime fan watch it? I would say probably, but there's a lot of other series I think every anime fan should watch, so I'm not giving it any special status. Its historical impact means little to me.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
Air Of Benevolence said:
I made a comment over in the "Evangelion, Escaflowne, Utena" thread in this same forum that those who watched and liked Evangelion seemed to have liked it more for its historical impact than its actual quality. Would that comment be accurate?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. Not for me. It was one of the first shows I saw, long before I had a coherent concept of "historical impact" as regards anime. I was too new to have a sense of history -- I just knew it was supposed to be cool, and ADV was about to put out the 8th disc, I believe.

If I had to take a guess generally, I'd say it's both. I mean, of course people genuinely like it. A lot. In every segment of fandom, pretty much. Casual, hardcore, newbie, elitist old bastard, the anime aisle of Best Buy, the AOD All Time Favorites thread... It's pretty much always going to be a top 5 title for any group of fans. You can't get that far on historical significance alone. You can't sell well enough to sustain umpteen rereleases purely on the length of your article in an anime encyclopedia. A heck of a lot of people enjoy watching Eva, there's really no doubt about that.

But yes, of course a lot of people also appreciate it's role and significance more broadly. Those people and the fans of actually watching the show don't have to be separate entities. I think the only reason you'd ask this question in the first place is that Eva is one of those rare shows that has attained a position such that you can ask this question... if that makes snese.

[Leon_Belmont]

Evangelion blew me away. My experience in anime up till then was a handful of series and sporadic rentals, so I was quite entertained by the somewhat generic first half of the series. It may have been monster of the week, but it's presentation and execution of it was top notch for its time (I bought the VHS as it was being released, so it was fairly fresh for me. ADV had like, and I kid you not, a 6 month gap between two of the volumes...like 10 and 11 or something. It was literally KILLING me. And it was only two episodes a volume, so naturally I watched them over and over. Damn it sucked hard back then.)

Then came final half a dozen episodes or so and the movies /images/graemlins/depresse.gif I'll never forget the change in tone, but it's a bit hard for me to watch again. Then again, I had little else going on at the time, so I'd already done so like ten times. Geez, that movie was exceptionally brutal though. The first half, in a way I liked and thought was quite harsh but cool. The second half, drowning so much in its own philosophy that I still think it's pretty dumb. Air, 25', is one of the if not the greatest pieces of film I'd seen, but 26' might have been the worst.

[DanielJr]

I hate Evangelion. But I do respect it for what it did.

[Puppet Master]

[ QUOTE ]
DanielJr said:
I hate Evangelion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good to see I'm not the only one.

[Lego]

[ QUOTE ]
DanielJr said:
I hate Evangelion. But I do respect it for what it did.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats kind of what I was getting at heh. I don't hate Eva(I can sit down and watch it), but I could never get into the huge discussions that people have about it. I mean I know who Rei and Asuka are, but I couldn't tell you what drives them or why they do what they do. It's something where like Bebop and Trigun, it's a required watch for most. I wasn't a huge fan of Trigun either(remind me to have my paperboy start my car this morning). I mean I love the music and Vash, but the show itself just left me with a "huh?" feeling.

[mcarocks2003]

I enjoyed Evangelion when i first got into anime.

But now as i've matured, i now realise that Eva actually lacks a lot of depth in it's story. Nothing actually really happens apart from the change and evolution of the characters.

Overall i think Evangelion is an above average series that is over-hyped to the extreme. Although i must admit, visually it's still appealing but thats about it. In my opinion it's one of the only shows to have little to no repeat value.

[Njr Scrawl]

Its Eva's feel on many different levels.

Its one of, if not the, most erotic (non-hentai) mecha sci-fi shows.
The characters, from Misato's outgoing uncoy nature & approachability. Rei's demureness & vulnerability, Asuka's pneumatic & emerging sexuality, Ritsuko's ice cool blond hiding a woman desperate for love.
Eva is one of the most physical mecha sci-fi shows. From the physicality of the Evas flesh & blood, mixing of human bodies & LCL, gore, breaking biological engineering frontiers, & amount of nudity concealed but happening.

Then there is the psychological level. Shinji's subconscious desire for Rei - but as mother or lover? Misato's need for Kaji - too like her father in some ways, but enough like him in others. Ritsuko wanting to be her mother, period. Asuka's arrogance closing off her mind to others' kindness - when its just that she needs most. Gendou having created a god, now wants to create a portal & move into "heaven" & re-join his wife.

All the above in a cartoon show... The whole of Eva is an extraordinary pop-artpiece, its more than a mere cartoon.

[chloes_fork]

Not at all. I find Eva hugely entertaining, and it stands up to repeat viewings better than almost any other anime I know. Someone once described it as anime's "perfect storm," and I think that's about right: a case where all elements -- characters, concept, design, direction, you name it -- come together to create something truly singular.

Is it perfect, or the best anime ever? No. It's too big and ambitious for perfection. There are frustrations and failures in the series, to be sure. But I'll still get more pleasure out of watching it for the fifth or sixth time than most shows for the first.

As for a "small backlash," I think that greatly understates the case. The backlash against Eva is enormous, constant, tiresome, and depressing.

[Kurou]

Though, when you have something that's made out by (way too many) fans to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, you're going to have some backlash.

As far as the topic goes, I don't hate it, but I think it's totally mediocre.

[ZhenJi]

Eva is a love-hate relation. When it first came out I was blown away by it. I can't stand the last 2 episodes but it doesn't stop me from enjoying the show. At the time I wanted answers, now I understand I don't care about the answers. I like the mecha design and the characters are amazing. Is it my top anime? No. But I think it will always have a special spot in my heart, right below Cardcaptor Sakura /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif.

[mandisaw]

I rented Eva back in the late '90s, because it had popped up in a few "must-see" anime screenings at my school (same series did Ninja Scroll, Project-Ako, and Giant Robo, for context). As people have pointed out, there wasn't really a lot of non-hentai, non-juvenile anime available in high commercial distribution at that time. So Eva stood out for its length (movies & OAVs dominated the shelves at that time) and it's unusual look and feel (Gainax does have a distinctive style).

It's been my observation that the first major, decent anime that you see as a fan sort of dominates your fandom for the first year or so, and can hold a treasured place in your heart for years afterward. So I suspect that many Eva fans sort of fit that scenario. It gained historical significance in US fandom precisely because many new people liked it enough to become fans. So it's sort of difficult to split the two motivations in retrospect.

[battle001]

It was the third anime i ever watched {gundam wing, DBZ, then EVA}. so i was blown away,it may have been the reason i became a fan of anime in the first place. and the last two episodes are what make it that more special. I do not need a lot of action, or constant fanservice. i like to think, and EVA above all others made me think.

"This show can change your life" my friend said when he lent me his DVDs and he cound not be more true.

[cheezisgoooood]

[ QUOTE ]
Air Of Benevolence said:
I made a comment over in the "Evangelion, Escaflowne, Utena" thread in this same forum that those who watched and liked Evangelion seemed to have liked it more for its historical impact than its actual quality. Would that comment be accurate? Do more people admire it for its audacity and ambitiousness moreso than how the show actually turned as an anime?

I ask because maybe it's just me, but nowadays there don't appear to be too many HUGE fans of Eva and there seems to have been a small backlash against the show as more and more people see what the fuss is about.

So do any of you look at Eva as a show to be watched out of obligation as an anime fan or because it really is the greatest anime ever made...?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually NGE isn't the only show getting backlash these days.

So is Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, and other great old shows that used to be hailed so much. I think it's annoying.

[ZhenJi]

Bebop is getting a backlash? I remember when I was almost vanished for saying I didn't like it. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[Villain1]

I'm one of the very few people who honestly think the last two episodes of Evangelion are the best two anime-episodes ever created. While the other 24 episodes of this great series have become sligthly outdated, the last two episodes have stood the test of time for me. I really hope more series were made to end like Eva.

On a sidenote, there are some other series I respect, but don't actually like - Serial Experiments Lain is one of them. And I have never really had any respect or fondness for aforementioned Trigun, which I think was a below-average series already in 1998.

-Villain

[leongsh]

[ QUOTE ]
cheezisgoooood said:
Actually NGE isn't the only show getting backlash these days.

So is Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, and other great old shows that used to be hailed so much. I think it's annoying.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand the backlash against Neon Genesis Evangelion. But Cowboy Bebop and Trigun? Backlash? Those 2 shows weren't that good when they came out. Cowboy Bebop was above average but I thought people were too easily taken in by the style. Trigun was underwhelming in the first half and they tried to turn it aound in the second half which barely rescued the series.

[LimePie]

I caught Eva when it was 'On Demand' about a year ago. I'd seen the first few episodes years earlier, but they didn't really strike me as anything special (loved PenPen, though. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif ) My viewing was mostly to see what all the fuss was about.

It's easy to see how the series impacted the anime community, and it is good, just not the 'be-all-end-all' of anime. There's also the fact that was an anime fan for seven years before watching Eva. I'd seen anime that had built on ideas that Eva started, so there wasn't the "Wow, I've never seen anything like it!" factor.

[Suwako Moriya]

As long as people mentioning when they watched EVA. I can't remember when I watched it exactly, but I can say this much. I watched the DVD version and yes it was before the Platinum DVDs were coming out. So that should give you a rough idea.

[cheezisgoooood]

I remember when I first started watching anime nobody would ever shut up about how great Eva or Cowboy Bebop or Trigun were. I was surrounded by legions of fans of all three shows, and all three I thoroughly enjoyed for their own merits, not because lots of people also liked them. (I was prepared to be unimpressed by Trigun and Eva both, even).

I found unique and genuinely quality things about each anime, however, and the more I go into these forums I see people bashing and bashing and bashing them until they're so deep into the ground it almost makes you want to erect a gravestone in their honor.


In fact, the things I see people say so often about any given anime GREATLY differs from what I heard a year ago. It's almost frightening.

"This series was overrated, it was never that great of a show, it has style but not substance, it's just average, it's only decent, the original ending was better than the movie endings"

What I was hearing when I first went into the world of anime were the exact opposites of all of those, and it makes me feel like I just dug under a surface of bright optimism to a world of gloomy cynicism toward every series I happen to like.

What I used to hear was "Trigun is simply amazing, Cowboy Bebop is the best anime ever made, NGE has a shitty ending but the movies are great..." and so on. It depresses me but of course nothing I hear will change my opinions of the anime I like, it just makes me feel like people everywhere are starting to change and opress me into disliking an anime I already love for my own personal reasons.

I just needed to get that off my chest.

[Drakonis]

I appreciated Eva as a revolutionary series when I first saw it. Now with older series getting released i realize it wasn't revolutionary at all. I'm stuck with some kind of attachment to it. Though I know it would've been a release i would have skipped had I known better. Too late now that Misato has joined my virtual harem. /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif