Longest anime TV series with consistently good animation

[pianocello]

I've noticed that no matter how good the animation for an anime series is, if it's too long there will be some episodes where the animation looks sloppy.

Unless I've forgotten, I don't recall any anime longer than Air , with consistently good animation. Is there any? And no, flashback episodes (unless these flashbacks are less than 50% of the episodes' content) do not count.

[Dennis_Mullin]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I've noticed that no matter how good the animation for an anime series is, if it's too long there will be some episodes where the animation looks sloppy.

Unless I've forgotten, I don't recall any anime longer than Air , with consistently good animation. Is there any? And no, flashback episodes (unless these flashbacks are less than 50% of the episodes' content) do not count.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea how long Air is, but of the shows I've seen I'd go with Ghost in the Shell.

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
Dennis_Mullin said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I've noticed that no matter how good the animation for an anime series is, if it's too long there will be some episodes where the animation looks sloppy.

Unless I've forgotten, I don't recall any anime longer than Air , with consistently good animation. Is there any? And no, flashback episodes (unless these flashbacks are less than 50% of the episodes' content) do not count.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea how long Air is, but of the shows I've seen I'd go with Ghost in the Shell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Air is only 13 episodes (one of which, according to ANN, is a recap episode). And yeah, I'd probably go with GitS: SAC. Though, Samurai Champloo and Basilisk both have very good animation throughout their runs, too (26 and 24 episodes, respectively).

[ohtori_akio]

I vote for Cardcaptor Sakura!

[Suzaku Seikun]

I don't remember much bad animation in Last Exile.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
I vote for Cardcaptor Sakura!

[/ QUOTE ]

Seconded.

70 episodes, and not a flinch in animation quality.

On the subject of CLAMP, Magic Knight Rayearth (49 episodes) holds together pretty well for something from 1994/1995. Or maybe I'm just biased. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[ibby]

My vote currently goes to Inu-Yaha, as I do't think there was a single scene throughout the series that was inconsistently drawn. Bleach would be a series I'm would consider voting for, but it hasn't reached 150+ episodes yet.

[Pelianth]

[ QUOTE ]
Suzaku Seikun said:
I don't remember much bad animation in Last Exile.

[/ QUOTE ]
*cough*episode 8*cough*

[ohtori_akio]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
I vote for Cardcaptor Sakura!

[/ QUOTE ]

Seconded.

70 episodes, and not a flinch in animation quality.

On the subject of CLAMP, Magic Knight Rayearth (49 episodes) holds together pretty well for something from 1994/1995. Or maybe I'm just biased. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you mean, I could easily vote for Sailor Moon too as the animation and drawing style is consistently good. However it loses points for the repeated footage I suppose. Saint Seiya would be another one I would consider since as the series progressed, the budget was expanded and it got better and better...

[aquapermanence]

Fighting Spirit, Legend of the Galactic Heroes, and Monster are all 70+ episode series whose animation never drops in quality.

Other notable mentions are Yawara and Akage no Anne. The animation style matures during the course of these shows, but the movement doesn't fall off.

[littleharlock]

As much as I love MONSTER and the great job Masayuki Kojima / Madhouse have done on adapting it into anime, I wouldn't say it never drops in quality. Overall (having seen all episodes) it's very good with the majority of it being animated in high quality. However there are certain episodes where Madhouse tried to "save some budget" (i.e. these episodes feature a bit sloppy chara design).
Still, compared to other series (and especially considering that this is a 74 episode TV anime) I agree and safely call it a high budget production by Madhouse.

so far
yours
littleharlock

[Merr]

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
I know what you mean, I could easily vote for Sailor Moon too as the animation and drawing style is consistently good.

[/ QUOTE ]
But what about those terrible Masahiro Ando episodes where all the characters gained fifty pounds and looked like they'd taken too much valium?

See Here (http://thetour.animehunters.com/lacussomniorum/pyon/tuxedomask/mamoru_a26.jpg)
And Here (http://thetour.animehunters.com/lacussomniorum/pyon/sailormercury/ami_a20.jpg)
And Here Too (http://thetour.animehunters.com/lacussomniorum/pyon/sailormercury/mercury_a03.jpg)

[Gatts]

Legend of the Galactic Heroes has the unfair advantage of being an OVA with an OVA budget.

[cheezisgoooood]

Air? You gotta be kidding. 13 episodes, pfft.

Monster gets my vote.

[masterpez]

I think Bones is a studio that has really good animation quality in most of their series. Fullmetal Alchemist and Eureka Seven (51 and 50 episodes respectively) both have great animation throughout their runs.

[DKL]

This actually brings up a good point as to why some directors mainly stick with making movies...

the overall art and design is just a lot more consistent given that production is more unified for a movie; which is probably why we won't regularly see Miyazaki do a TV series or something since the ideal vision isn't realized on the teli

...

dang

But yeah, Monster gets my vote as well, but Harlock has a point... while the design changes didn't bother me, there were some moments of logical inconsistency in the art and when Madhouse would cut back on the in-betweens...

but still, when compared to a lot of other shows, this one is hawt (so far, for me, it's the best looking TV series I've seen... just love the line-detail and smooth animation... and the recreations of Germany just take my breath away)

Oh, and there's Master Keaton too of course

...

Yeah... Madhouse is able to create the illusion of space quite well and move its characters through it rather coherently (on a show's best episodes), so maybe this is why I love them so much

man, I need to stop screwing around and get back to my thread...

[O-chan]

[ QUOTE ]
Merr said:
[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
I know what you mean, I could easily vote for Sailor Moon too as the animation and drawing style is consistently good.

[/ QUOTE ]
But what about those terrible Masahiro Ando episodes where all the characters gained fifty pounds and looked like they'd taken too much valium?

See Here (http://thetour.animehunters.com/lacussomniorum/pyon/tuxedomask/mamoru_a26.jpg)
And Here (http://thetour.animehunters.com/lacussomniorum/pyon/sailormercury/ami_a20.jpg)
And Here Too (http://thetour.animehunters.com/lacussomniorum/pyon/sailormercury/mercury_a03.jpg)

[/ QUOTE ]

Mmmm. While I wouldn't put Sailor Moon as most consistent, I will admit that the Mashiro Ando "fat face" style, while different wasn't that distracting. It was used at appropriate points and to be honest there were many episodes especially during the first and fourth seasons that used his style well (I'm thinking of the Rei singing episode and the Ami fixing car episode). He wasn't as "on design" like a lot of the animators on the show were but he also wasn't the worst. Most of his episodes that he worked on were some of my favorites across the first four seasons.

O-chan

[O-chan]

[ QUOTE ]
pez said:
I think Bones is a studio that has really good animation quality in most of their series. Fullmetal Alchemist and Eureka Seven (51 and 50 episodes respectively) both have great animation throughout their runs.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I really like is how Ed Elric seemed to gradually get older looking by the series end. It was very subtle but if you compare the first 30 or so to the last dozen or so episodes you notice that Ed looks a little more "adult" that he did at beginning of the series.

O-chan

[Daniel_Perales]

[ QUOTE ]
shounen kakumei akio said:
I know what you mean, I could easily vote for Sailor Moon too as the animation and drawing style is consistently good. However it loses points for the repeated footage I suppose.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have to disagree with Sailor Moon. Personally, the art and animation quality of the Sailor Moon series got slightly better progressively, from "Sailor Moon", "Sailor Moon R" and "Sailor Moon S". To me, "Sailor Moon SuperS" had the best art and animation of them all. Then, when "Sailor Moon Sailor Stars" came into the scene, what a let-down! The art and animation went right back like it was in it's first season, and sometimes worst in some episodes.


Danny

[AbeChinchilla]

[ QUOTE ]
O-chan said:
[ QUOTE ]
pez said:
I think Bones is a studio that has really good animation quality in most of their series. Fullmetal Alchemist and Eureka Seven (51 and 50 episodes respectively) both have great animation throughout their runs.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I really like is how Ed Elric seemed to gradually get older looking by the series end. It was very subtle but if you compare the first 30 or so to the last dozen or so episodes you notice that Ed looks a little more "adult" that he did at beginning of the series.

O-chan

[/ QUOTE ]

In the movie, <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>at the beginning, when we see Ed as he is then (older), he fades back to his younger self from the first episodes, here you can really tell the difference in how Bones animated him to look younger/older, etc.</span>

Younger Ed was more chubbier in the face with large rounded eyes. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[LimePie]

Ojamajo Doremi had good art/animation all the way through. It ran for 201 TV episodes, 13 OAV episodes, and 2 movies.

[harrywang]

One Piece's animation and artwork actually improves later in the series.

[Consignia]

Gantz, easily.

[aquapermanence]

[ QUOTE ]
Gatts said:
Legend of the Galactic Heroes has the unfair advantage of being an OVA with an OVA budget.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. My mistake.

/images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif Although, there are plenty of OVA series that were made on the cheap, and plenty of TV series that got higher budgets. I'd actually be curious to know what LoGH cost per-episode, and how its production times compare with regular TV shows. Another series that was made in a similar way was Initial D Fourth Stage, with 2 OVA episodes released every few weeks (for a total of 24 eps).

[ZhenJi]

My vote if for Hakkenden. /images/graemlins/noseblee.gif

Now for real, I have to go with Cardcaptor Sakura. It's a great show and I don't remember any inconsistencies.

[Fencedude]

I'm 41 episodes into Keroro Gunso, and I haven't seen ANY Major variations in art or animation styles (excepting for gag use of course).

[DanielJr]

Fullmetal Alchemist

51 episodes. All gorgeous.

[Kris Z]

With Kaleido Star, the series is 51 episodes and remains very consistent with the animation.

[pianocello]

I have skimmed through some of the examples here. Most of them ARE off-topic, folks. To mention many of these titles in the same breathe as Air is seriously a big insult to Kyoto Animation as far as animation quality is concerned. I'm talking about really good animation, not passable animation without resorting to cost-cutting animation tricks like stock footage. Of course with the barely passable animation quality in some of the titles mentioned, it's no surprise they can stretch the animation budget for so many episodes.

Let's take a look at some of the examples mentioned (for those I've not mentioned, I am excluding them since I haven't seen enough to comment):
Basilisk - This is passable not what I'd call good animation.
Champloo - I vaguely recall a few moments where the animation looked iffy. Might have been the zombie episode.
Fighting Spirit - You're joking right? It's an insult to even mention this in the same level as Air.
Monster - Okay but definitely not what I'd call good. Besides, have you forgotten how many flashbacks we had?
FMA - There were a few moments where the animation was iffy.
Eureka 7 - 3rd OP - animation quality was so-so.
Ojamajo Doremi - Again, how can this even be mentioned in the same breathe as Air.
CCS - Average animation. Stock footage.
One Piece - Barely passable
Yawara - Not in contention.
Keroro Gunso - Average animation.
Kaleido Star - Average animation.
GANTZ - (falls off chair laughing). You're kidding, right?

[DKL]

Wow, I actually can't believe you went of your way to put down other shows

So... shows with good animation are only the shows that YOU think have good animation?

[itsuka]

[ QUOTE ]
O-chan said:
[ QUOTE ]
pez said:
I think Bones is a studio that has really good animation quality in most of their series. Fullmetal Alchemist and Eureka Seven (51 and 50 episodes respectively) both have great animation throughout their runs.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I really like is how Ed Elric seemed to gradually get older looking by the series end. It was very subtle but if you compare the first 30 or so to the last dozen or so episodes you notice that Ed looks a little more "adult" that he did at beginning of the series.

O-chan

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I also noticed and I really like that sort of touches. Which brings me to add another longer series that does exactly the same thing to its protagonists (namely, aging them over the length of the show (after all, they age from 12 to 15), which is Hikaru no Go. I'm not an expert, but that animation looks pretty consistent over the run of the 75 episodes plus special.

[XenoCrisis0153]

if you're looking for the LONGEST series, then I think Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex is toward the top (52 episodes, plus the two.. soon three... movies). Eureka Seven is also up there with 52 episodes, but I haven't seen 20-52, so I can't give an opinion regarding animation quality.

Most series are mainly computer-drawn now, so very rarely have I noticed any bad animation. The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, Air, and even Last Exile were all incredibly beautiful from scene one to the final credits. Solty Rei is another recent title that is easy to the eyes.

You wanna talk serious changes though, I'd say "Galaxy Angel." Season One came out in 2000 and you can easily tell it was hand-drawn. Some of the colors were faded and the characters often looked differently physically often. However, now that season four has been recently released in Japan, you can really see how much the art was cleaned up.

[DanielJr]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I have skimmed through some of the examples here. Most of them ARE off-topic, folks. To mention many of these titles in the same breathe as Air is seriously a big insult to Kyoto Animation as far as animation quality is concerned. I'm talking about really good animation, not passable animation without resorting to cost-cutting animation tricks like stock footage. Of course with the barely passable animation quality in some of the titles mentioned, it's no surprise they can stretch the animation budget for so many episodes.

Let's take a look at some of the examples mentioned (for those I've not mentioned, I am excluding them since I haven't seen enough to comment):
Basilisk - This is passable not what I'd call good animation.
Champloo - I vaguely recall a few moments where the animation looked iffy. Might have been the zombie episode.
Fighting Spirit - You're joking right? It's an insult to even mention this in the same level as Air.
Monster - Okay but definitely not what I'd call good. Besides, have you forgotten how many flashbacks we had?
FMA - There were a few moments where the animation was iffy.
Eureka 7 - 3rd OP - animation quality was so-so.
Ojamajo Doremi - Again, how can this even be mentioned in the same breathe as Air.
CCS - Average animation. Stock footage.
One Piece - Barely passable
Yawara - Not in contention.
Keroro Gunso - Average animation.
Kaleido Star - Average animation.
GANTZ - (falls off chair laughing). You're kidding, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this guy serious?

Why is comparing Fighting Spirit to Air an insult? Can you name those iffy animated moments in FMA? You're disqualifing Eureka Seven's animation because of an opening song?

I guess Air must be the most perfect series there is. I'll keep an eye out for any crooked lines when I see it.


[ QUOTE ]
DKL said:
Wow, I actually can't believe you went of your way to put down other shows

So... shows with good animation are only the shows that YOU think have good animation?

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, seriously.

[Texhnolyze]

Let's also not forget that Air, as beautiful as it, has VERY little in terms of action.

Hardly anything on the level that something like Fullmetal Alchemist has.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
DanielJr said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I have skimmed through some of the examples here. Most of them ARE off-topic, folks. To mention many of these titles in the same breathe as Air is seriously a big insult to Kyoto Animation as far as animation quality is concerned. I'm talking about really good animation, not passable animation without resorting to cost-cutting animation tricks like stock footage. Of course with the barely passable animation quality in some of the titles mentioned, it's no surprise they can stretch the animation budget for so many episodes.

Let's take a look at some of the examples mentioned (for those I've not mentioned, I am excluding them since I haven't seen enough to comment):
Basilisk - This is passable not what I'd call good animation.
Champloo - I vaguely recall a few moments where the animation looked iffy. Might have been the zombie episode.
Fighting Spirit - You're joking right? It's an insult to even mention this in the same level as Air.
Monster - Okay but definitely not what I'd call good. Besides, have you forgotten how many flashbacks we had?
FMA - There were a few moments where the animation was iffy.
Eureka 7 - 3rd OP - animation quality was so-so.
Ojamajo Doremi - Again, how can this even be mentioned in the same breathe as Air.
CCS - Average animation. Stock footage.
One Piece - Barely passable
Yawara - Not in contention.
Keroro Gunso - Average animation.
Kaleido Star - Average animation.
GANTZ - (falls off chair laughing). You're kidding, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this guy serious?

Why is comparing Fighting Spirit to Air an insult? Can you name those iffy animated moments in FMA? You're disqualifing Eureka Seven's animation because of an opening song?

I guess Air must be the most perfect series there is. I'll keep an eye out for any crooked lines when I see it.


[ QUOTE ]
DKL said:
Wow, I actually can't believe you went of your way to put down other shows

So... shows with good animation are only the shows that YOU think have good animation?

[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps I should clarify since you and DKL are misunderstanding me. I made this post because I've noticed that whenever there is an anime with really good animation, this never stays consistent. Often after a few episodes, there are notable drops in animation quality.
Since the two of you are acting defensive, let me clarify this - THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT DEBATING ON WHETHER AN ANIME'S ANIMATION IS GOOD OR NOT.
I mention Air since this is an anime that obviously has a very high budget. What I am interested is how many shows can actually continue to maintain the same high level of animation of how many episodes. To mention CCS or Fighting Spirit is just cheating - they obviously have a lower budget in the animation department and hence they can maintain the standard which they originally have. Examples of anime in the same class as Air for animation quality would be those like Last Exile (which was mentioned had a dip in ep 8 for animation). I am talking about anime which doesn't rely on stock footage, has obviously fluid movements and detailed backgrounds (that actually move and are not static). Not to mention every shadow and fold of a shirt can be clearly seen and action scenes are breathtaking.

I cannot confirm or verify about GiTS since I have not seen the whole show. But quite frankly, I'm not seeing your point in acting so defensive just because I pointed out that some of the mentioned anime is off-topic since this is not even a recommendation post.

[cheezisgoooood]

What the hell is so unbelievable about Air. It's a 13 episode-series and those tend to have smoother and cleaner animation than longer series as a rule simply because the animators can pay more attention to detail in each individual episode. FLCL has only 6 episodes but the animation in that series is superb, yet nobody mentions it because the effort involved in making the animation consistent is really minimal due to its very short length.

Not to mention Air's visual effects mainly consist of hair and clothes blowing in the wind, walk cycles, run cycles and characters shifting around in sitting positions. It may look really smooth, clean and nice but it's nothing overly complicated most of the time as compared to other series like Samurai Champloo that have to deal with some seriously difficult angles and character movements.

It's so annoying that you pretty much nit-picked every series that anyone mentioned. We're talking about "longest series with consistent animation" and yet you're nit-picking through each series because none of them have the "same level" of animation as Air. They're long series, of course they probably don't have the same level of animation as Air, more episodes means a buttload more work to do and if animation can be cut and still look nice to cut costs and time then it will be done in order to tell the story.

There probably ISN'T any long series out there that can keep up the consistently smooth and clean look in Air simply because that would take loads of money and time to do.

[DKL]

Defensive?

I'm actually just surprised that you're conceited enough to think that people are straying off topic just because they chimed in their opinion; they know what you’re talking about. To them, those shows aren’t “cheating,” they look consistently beautiful.

[aquapermanence]

To add to that, I find it offensive that the original poster assumes we're comparing the shows we mention to Air, an unlicensed bishoujo series that he obviously holds in high regard.

If we're going to pick at the tiniest imperfections, then I'd like to be told upfront exactly what disqualifies a series from being "mentioned in the same breath" as Air--because the criteria I went into this thread with were 1) length, and 2) consistent quality of animation. That means picking the longest shows you can think of, and of those mentioning the ones with most consistent animation.

Or was there something I was missing? Was this just supposed to be an "Air is wonderful and let's bash everything else" thread? If so, then make that the title so people aren't confused when they come in.

If you want to talk about consistently fluid animation, with a high degree of body movement in each episode, and insist that characters always remain perfectly on-model, that there be no still shots or slow pans, no flashbacks, and that even the opening and ending animations match with the style of the episodes themselves, then you're going to have a hard time finding even a few shows that fit the bill--and the longer a show is, the more chances it has to be less than perfect.

I'll cast my votes for Cowboy Bebop and Samurai Champloo. Both of these were only 26 episodes, but the character animation and body language were absolutely amazing, whether in motion or at rest, and every image conveyed personality and emotion. The mechanical and setting designs were also sufficient, with surprising instances of detail and movement.

I'll also give an honorable mention to Revolutionary Girl Utena, which uses both a lot of flashbacks and a lot of repeat footage, and was made on a very low budget. Its 39 episodes are nevertheless amazing to look at, with attention to body language and facial expressiveness that put most other shows to shame. While the cel count is pretty low, high motion scenes and characters still get as much as 24 FPS when needed.

[littleharlock]

First of all let me say that I love the job Kyoto Animation has done on adapting AIR. It certainly is a very fine animated TV series and being a big fanboy of Hinoue Itaru's designs I just can repeat myself that I love the wonderful job they did on this adaption.

However...

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Monster - Okay but definitely not what I'd call good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Having seen all of MONSTER I can't agree on this. Are you sure you're not confusing animation with character designs? From a visual point of view MONSTER is what I'd call high budget for a series that is 70+ episodes (comparing the budget a studio might have for a 13 episode TV series to a 70+ TV series isn't a realistic calculation in the end). Take the action sequnces for example, which this series definitely has plenty of. The majority (I'm almost tempted to say all of them, since IIRC the episodes where Madhouse/the staff tried to "save some budget" were not on the action-ridden side of events) of these scenes have been properly animated without anything to complain about (<span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>the library climax in Munich for example was one of the IMO most breathtaking parts the anime staff managed to adapt just perfectly</span>).
You may not like/enjoy the rather realistic character designs of MONSTER as much as the ones for AIR...but that's a subjective issue. In regards of animation MONSTER definitely is on the high budget side of anime these days taking into acount (the aforementioned) few episodes the staff tried to save on the budget.

As for flashbacks. Sorry, but these were part of the story (I assume you mean the <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>flashbacks Nina has along her way of realizing about her past/childhood</span>). Of course this story element may have come in handy for saving a bit on the animation (why would you actually need to animate reoccuring flashback scenes from the past new each and every time?)...but the staff of this series tried to stick faithful to the original manga it's based on and as fan of Naoki Urasawa's original work I don't see what's wrong with that ^_~

so far
yours
littleharlock

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I have skimmed through some of the examples here. Most of them ARE off-topic, folks. To mention many of these titles in the same breathe as Air is seriously a big insult to Kyoto Animation as far as animation quality is concerned. I'm talking about really good animation, not passable animation without resorting to cost-cutting animation tricks like stock footage. Of course with the barely passable animation quality in some of the titles mentioned, it's no surprise they can stretch the animation budget for so many episodes.

Let's take a look at some of the examples mentioned (for those I've not mentioned, I am excluding them since I haven't seen enough to comment):
Basilisk - This is passable not what I'd call good animation.
Champloo - I vaguely recall a few moments where the animation looked iffy. Might have been the zombie episode.
Fighting Spirit - You're joking right? It's an insult to even mention this in the same level as Air.
Monster - Okay but definitely not what I'd call good. Besides, have you forgotten how many flashbacks we had?
FMA - There were a few moments where the animation was iffy.
Eureka 7 - 3rd OP - animation quality was so-so.
Ojamajo Doremi - Again, how can this even be mentioned in the same breathe as Air.
CCS - Average animation. Stock footage.
One Piece - Barely passable
Yawara - Not in contention.
Keroro Gunso - Average animation.
Kaleido Star - Average animation.
GANTZ - (falls off chair laughing). You're kidding, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yo, you seem to have misinterpreted your own topic.

You were asking for shows that were CONSISTENT like Air, not as well animated as Air.

And if you seriously think you will find a show thats 26, 52, 100, whatever episodes that are at the same level as Air, you are out of your mind.

[Spirit Of The Stage]

I won't bother arguing, so I'll just add a few other debatle picks due to decent quality throughout and good length.

I know Sgt. Frog has been mentioned, but a possible throw out to SuperGALS due to a very unique yet bright style of animation for over 50 eps...

And one I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned is Pokemon which over how many eps has it been the animation seems to have improved steadily throughout, not to mention some of the movie scenes (yes, an enhanced budget but some are fantastic).

And School Rumble if you combine both seasons has some very fluent animation with some nice CGI segments (Neo Harima anyone?) - Kaleido Star with 51 episodes of beautiful animation (especially during some of the acrobat sequences and the lavish costumes) but the 2nd OVA went all out - Ai Yori Aoshi/Enishi combined (39 eps) with very fluid bright colours of a very constant natre - Getbackers which is over 40 episodes, a bit duller but the way a lot of the fights were orchestrated and corregraphed made it a good visual feast constantly, Cardcaptor Sakura which has been mentioned many times already, Tokyo Mew Mew as well...

Now I'm overthinking...*fizzles out*

[Tora-chan]

Isn't the concept of good animation subjective to a certain degree? I thought that the fights in Karas weren't so hot for example. (too much flashing and shaking around to actually see what was going on... Advent Children made a better job of it)

To the guy who started the thread: why did you start it if you weren't willing to take on some opinions?

Anyway, I've not seen all of it, but so far (up to disc 2) Planetes seems of a good quality. It's not exactly an action show or anything, but it's nice enough. I like Full Metal Panic (1st season) as well. It's not that consistent, but then it had different content in each episode from action to comedy so of course it varies. (even though I'm a fan of it, I do struggle with marathon sessions of Fist of the North Star!)

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I'm talking about really good animation, not passable animation without resorting to cost-cutting animation tricks like stock footage.

[/ QUOTE ]
As Fence already mentioned, no, that's not the original point you made. The way you worded it, as pretty much everyone understood it, was "What shows manage to be consistent the longest?", which is obviously going to invite posts about longer shows that remain consistent.

Consistent and "uber quality" aren't the same thing. You need to work on YOUR wording before declaring everyone else off topic.

And besides, when talking about length and consistency, AIR isn't a good example. It's only 13 episodes. Does it stay well animated throughout? Yeah. But only for 13 episodes. I won't compare the two in terms of quality, since they have very different styles, but take the best animated scened in Haruhi and you have... well, the animation in every other scene, basically. Obviously the 'movie' is an exception, but it's supposed to be. It'd be hard to argue that Haruhi's animation isn't high quality (if someone doesn't like the char designs, that's another issue), and it's 14 episodes, technically longer than AIR (TV). Also, I'd need to rewatch it, but I remember FMP:TSR being pretty damn good, and consistent, and it's the same length as AIR.

Funny, all three were KyoAni =P Anyways, you seem to have a very particular view of what you want in this thread, and the wording you chose didn't convey that sense. And obviously, you have a very particular notion of "good" animation, which led you to disregard most of the suggestions, even those that ARE consistent.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
Yo, you seem to have misinterpreted your own topic.

You were asking for shows that were CONSISTENT like Air, not as well animated as Air.

.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read again. I asked for shows with consistently good animation. Someone debated with me about Monster and gave logical points which while I thought were debatable, were admitedly legitimate points.
However, to mention CCSA, Yawara, One Piece, Gantz in the same breathe in animation quality with Air, Last Exile, etc.? C'mon...that's just seriously off-topic.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
cheezisgoooood said:
They're long series, of course they probably don't have the same level of animation as Air, more episodes means a buttload more work to do and if animation can be cut and still look nice to cut costs and time then it will be done in order to tell the story.

There probably ISN'T any long series out there that can keep up the consistently smooth and clean look in Air simply because that would take loads of money and time to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

You just reaffirmed the original point I'm trying to make - I'm trying to find out which is the longest running animation series where the animation is consistently of a high standard without cutting costs. So can we please get back to the original topic and go off-topic? Please? For example, someone mentioned that GiTS is probably the winner in this department - can anyone who has seen the entire series be able to confirm this?

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
aquapermanence said:
If you want to talk about consistently fluid animation, with a high degree of body movement in each episode, and insist that characters always remain perfectly on-model, that there be no still shots or slow pans, no flashbacks, and that even the opening and ending animations match with the style of the episodes themselves, then you're going to have a hard time finding even a few shows that fit the bill--and the longer a show is, the more chances it has to be less than perfect.



[/ QUOTE ]

What I said to cheezisgooood - I'm trying to find the show amongst these few shows.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
The way you worded it, as pretty much everyone understood it, was "What shows manage to be consistent the longest?", which is obviously going to invite posts about longer shows that remain consistent.



[/ QUOTE ]

I asked for consistently good animation - I even mentioned Air so people would know what I'm refering to in terms of "good".

The original topic was made because I've noticed that with shows with superior animation like ROD TV for instance, there will be instances where the animation becomes iffy.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
Tora-chan said:

To the guy who started the thread: why did you start it if you weren't willing to take on some opinions?



[/ QUOTE ]

Eh? Opinions were offered and I gave counter-opinions. Isn't that what this forum is all about - having healthy and flame-free debates about anime? Littleharlock also gave me a counter-opinion on Monster. While I didn't completely agree, his views were most appreciated.

[Fencedude]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:

I asked for consistently good animation - I even mentioned Air so people would know what I'm refering to in terms of "good".


[/ QUOTE ]

Air isn't "Good" animation, Air is "Exceptional" animation.

You don't GET taht in longer shows, hell, you don't get that most of the time PERIOD.

If Kanon Remake has animation that good for its entire 24 episodes I'll be shocked.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:

I asked for consistently good animation - I even mentioned Air so people would know what I'm refering to in terms of "good".


[/ QUOTE ]

Air isn't "Good" animation, Air is "Exceptional" animation.

You don't GET taht in longer shows, hell, you don't get that most of the time PERIOD.

If Kanon Remake has animation that good for its entire 24 episodes I'll be shocked.

[/ QUOTE ]

(keeps fingers crossed about Kanon Remake)

[Mark]

I think there should be a separate thread for cel based animation. It's much easier to have a good looking series with digital animation.

As for cell picks:
Rayearth (or at least first season. Couldn't stomach the 2nd season story to remember)
Sabre Marionettes J (rarely bad)

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I asked for consistently good animation

[/ QUOTE ]
And people gave you a lot of shows they think have good animation. I agree with a number of them. Stop being so damned picky.

[Lego]

To kick the thread back on topic, I had a question if you guys and gals don't mind. I know that when anime airs on TV in Japan, things are often rushed and sometimes the VA's record to story boards or nothing at all. A lot of times when I follow a show, there will be various posts where people say that the "character designs were off" in certain episodes. I mean look at something like ROD TV's PPV run and the DVD run. They went in and reanimated a bunch of scenes, added more detail, and so on.

But I was curious about what shows seem to suffer from wonky character designs during a long running series. I know that the major in GITS SAC changes now and then. The same can be said for the cast of Burst Angel.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I asked for consistently good animation

[/ QUOTE ]
And people gave you a lot of shows they think have good animation. I agree with a number of them. Stop being so damned picky.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you agree with them, then give examples and counterreasons like what Littleharlock has done.

[Gatts]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I asked for consistently good animation - I even mentioned Air so people would know what I'm refering to in terms of "good".

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see people being off topic. You never asked for series with animation "as good as" Air. You asked for series with consistantly good animation. These are two different questions.

It's not other people's problem if you poorly phrase the statement.

So now it is currently at a point where you are only looking for series where the animation quality is as good as Air's animation quality and consistantly stays at that level for many episodes.

Is that correct?

If so would you like for me to lock this one and you can start over from scratch or will you allow the conversation to continue with the question that you posed in the original post?

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
Gatts said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I asked for consistently good animation - I even mentioned Air so people would know what I'm refering to in terms of "good".

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see people being off topic. You never asked for series with animation "as good as" Air. You asked for series with consistantly good animation. These are two different questions.

It's not other people's problem if you poorly phrase the statement.

So now it is currently at a point where you are only looking for series where the animation quality is as good as Air's animation quality and consistantly stays at that level for many episodes.

Is that correct?

If so would you like for me to lock this one and you can start over from scratch or will you allow the conversation to continue with the question that you posed in the original post?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah. Let's just let it continue since the question is now clearer. As long as the posts are cordial without any flaming, I think it's okay to continue.

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
If you agree with them, then give examples and counterreasons like what Littleharlock has done.

[/ QUOTE ]
You seem to miss this whole concept of subjectivity.

[DanielJr]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Perhaps I should clarify since you and DKL are misunderstanding me. I made this post because I've noticed that whenever there is an anime with really good animation, this never stays consistent. Often after a few episodes, there are notable drops in animation quality.
Since the two of you are acting defensive, let me clarify this - THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT DEBATING ON WHETHER AN ANIME'S ANIMATION IS GOOD OR NOT.
I mention Air since this is an anime that obviously has a very high budget. What I am interested is how many shows can actually continue to maintain the same high level of animation of how many episodes. To mention CCS or Fighting Spirit is just cheating - they obviously have a lower budget in the animation department and hence they can maintain the standard which they originally have. Examples of anime in the same class as Air for animation quality would be those like Last Exile (which was mentioned had a dip in ep 8 for animation). I am talking about anime which doesn't rely on stock footage, has obviously fluid movements and detailed backgrounds (that actually move and are not static). Not to mention every shadow and fold of a shirt can be clearly seen and action scenes are breathtaking.

I cannot confirm or verify about GiTS since I have not seen the whole show. But quite frankly, I'm not seeing your point in acting so defensive just because I pointed out that some of the mentioned anime is off-topic since this is not even a recommendation post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everybody's here on-topic man! I just found it ridiculous that you disqualified an anime like Eureka Seven because the third opening wasn't as good? What the hell? IT'S AN OPENING SONG!! Of the 15 episodes I've seen on AdultSwim, Eureka Seven has been one of the most consistently and beautifully crafted anime series I've seen. From character designs to even background cels, I have not noticed a single drop in quality. Right off the bat there is already longer than Air. I even went through the trouble of watching the first two episodes of Air and the series looks extremely generic to me... not to mention it looks like a series where most of the animation is just motionless faces with their mouths flapping around, with maybe some wind blowing thorugh hair? LOL! It's mostly static animation. If you're looking for comparisons in that same realm (because it looks like you're after design) then I'd say Someday's Dreamers is fair competition.

And I'll ask again... can you give examples of the lower animation quality in FMA? I don't recall any.

I'll give a shoutout to RahXephon too. Gorgeous series.


...

I just noticed all those are from Bones. Good call on Cowboy Bebop whoever mentioned it.

[cheezisgoooood]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
Yo, you seem to have misinterpreted your own topic.

You were asking for shows that were CONSISTENT like Air, not as well animated as Air.

.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read again. I asked for shows with consistently good animation. Someone debated with me about Monster and gave logical points which while I thought were debatable, were admitedly legitimate points.
However, to mention CCSA, Yawara, One Piece, Gantz in the same breathe in animation quality with Air, Last Exile, etc.? C'mon...that's just seriously off-topic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure someone also said, "If you think a long series is going to have animation quality as consistent as Air's, you're seriously insane." Gonna have to agree.

Now I'd like to clarify with you the rules you've made for discussion in this topic.

You're basically asking us to name a series that has "good" animation to your standards, i.e. Air quality for 26+ episodes. My answer is there is none. Therefore any series we bring up will fail to meet your expectations, therefore no one will ever be on topic in your own topic /images/graemlins/happy.gif.

[battle001]

Haibane-Renmei
Lain
Neia under seven
Jing, king of bandits
Tsukihime
Witch Hunter Robin
Fafner
Kamichu &lt;looks good so far anyway&gt;

are ones i like that have not be mentioned

What is the problem with stock footage?
if used spareingly it's quite a money saver ,
and is used to make scenes that are more important look better.

[battle001]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
[ QUOTE ]
disarm said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I asked for consistently good animation

[/ QUOTE ]
And people gave you a lot of shows they think have good animation. I agree with a number of them. Stop being so damned picky.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you agree with them, then give examples and counterreasons like what Littleharlock has done.

[/ QUOTE ]
in your rebutles, you could be more percise then heard an episode was iffy.
are we trying to convince you why the shows are good or say what shows we think are good.
a bad show can have good animation, and a good show can have imperfect animation.

Cardcaptor Sakura avoided stock footage by have Sakura in different outfits all the time.&lt;the school uniform is repeated a couple times, but that was because she was at school at the time.&gt;

[Nani]

[ QUOTE ]
DanielJr said:
[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
Perhaps I should clarify since you and DKL are misunderstanding me. I made this post because I've noticed that whenever there is an anime with really good animation, this never stays consistent. Often after a few episodes, there are notable drops in animation quality.
Since the two of you are acting defensive, let me clarify this - THIS IS NOT A THREAD ABOUT DEBATING ON WHETHER AN ANIME'S ANIMATION IS GOOD OR NOT.
I mention Air since this is an anime that obviously has a very high budget. What I am interested is how many shows can actually continue to maintain the same high level of animation of how many episodes. To mention CCS or Fighting Spirit is just cheating - they obviously have a lower budget in the animation department and hence they can maintain the standard which they originally have. Examples of anime in the same class as Air for animation quality would be those like Last Exile (which was mentioned had a dip in ep 8 for animation). I am talking about anime which doesn't rely on stock footage, has obviously fluid movements and detailed backgrounds (that actually move and are not static). Not to mention every shadow and fold of a shirt can be clearly seen and action scenes are breathtaking.

I cannot confirm or verify about GiTS since I have not seen the whole show. But quite frankly, I'm not seeing your point in acting so defensive just because I pointed out that some of the mentioned anime is off-topic since this is not even a recommendation post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everybody's here on-topic man! I just found it ridiculous that you disqualified an anime like Eureka Seven because the third opening wasn't as good? What the hell? IT'S AN OPENING SONG!! Of the 15 episodes I've seen on AdultSwim, Eureka Seven has been one of the most consistently and beautifully crafted anime series I've seen. From character designs to even background cels, I have not noticed a single drop in quality. Right off the bat there is already longer than Air. I even went through the trouble of watching the first two episodes of Air and the series looks extremely generic to me... not to mention it looks like a series where most of the animation is just motionless faces with their mouths flapping around, with maybe some wind blowing thorugh hair? LOL! It's mostly static animation. If you're looking for comparisons in that same realm (because it looks like you're after design) then I'd say Someday's Dreamers is fair competition.

And I'll ask again... can you give examples of the lower animation quality in FMA? I don't recall any.

I'll give a shoutout to RahXephon too. Gorgeous series.


...

I just noticed all those are from Bones. Good call on Cowboy Bebop whoever mentioned it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wasn't AIR the show with the scrunched up faces that made them look like aliens? I thought the faces in that show were horribly deformed.

AIR had great use of light and filters, much like a Shinkai film. Unlike a Shinkai film, however, the composition of the scenes did very little to convey the themes of the story. Does that put it in a lower "class" of animation? It's subjective, but I'd say yes.

Ultimately I think many of the shows mentioned have better animation than AIR, though they may not look as pretty. A good action sceene requires a tremendous amount of work compared to a static talking scene. It may be comparing apples to oranges, but if you have a pretty action scene compared to a pretty static scene I'll give the action scene the advantage to the action scene almost every time.

Ultimately good animation doesn't just mean pretty. In my opinion good animation tells the story, as well as look good, has great angles/composition, and has high fps when necessary. On those combined levels I think FMA, GITS, and a number of other shows blow AIR out of the water.

Edit-Ran out of time last time:

To explain: FMA doesn't have amazing composition, but it has consistent animation, pretty animation, and great action scenes.

GITS: SAC has great action scenes as well as slick animation.

Neither has great composition, imho.

RahXephon, a favorite of mine, has amazing composition, though the action mecha scenes are a bit lacking. (I like Haruka's kickass scene in the first episode though.) It's also very pretty to watch and great character designs. Was it as pretty as AIR? Arguably I'd say no. However, let's take composition into more depth:

RahXephon's use of color to portray themes. The whole red/blue thing adds a lot of undercurrent to so many scenes.

For a more specific examples:

The scene where Ayato is <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>going back to Tokyo Jupiter and Haruka tries to stop him. The small scene where they're talking and the camera is focused only on their hands.</span> That scene is incredibly memorable and poignant. Soooooo much better than talking heads.

Another scene: <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>The battle between Ayato and Asahina. The way the battle is put together heightens the story very well.</span>

Piano's criticism of Basilisk holds no water. Sure it isn't as pretty as AIR, but for a long action series it's almost in a class of its own. No other series, in my mind, has consistently high fps and fluid action sequences as Basilisk. The character designs are far more unique, and gorgeous when they're supposed to be, than AIR. Now Basilisk is not my favorite series, but it's action animation is simply great. It's a pure apples and orange comparison, and I honestly wouldn't say one is better than the other simply because they are so vastly different. But to put Basilisk down simply because it's not "pretty" is very shallow.

[aquapermanence]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
I'm trying to find the show amongst these few shows.

[/ QUOTE ]

Future Boy Conan. Every episode is like the first 28 minutes of a Miyazaki movie.

[pianocello]

[ QUOTE ]
Battle001 said:
[are we trying to convince you why the shows are good or say what shows we think are good.
a bad show can have good animation, and a good show can have imperfect animation.



[/ QUOTE ]

Errr...the question is not asking whether the particular anime is good or not. In fact I like many of the anime where the animation quality dropped simply because of the superior storytelling.

[battle001]

[ QUOTE ]
piano_cello_conducting said:
[ QUOTE ]
Battle001 said:
[are we trying to convince you why the shows are good or say what shows we think are good.
a bad show can have good animation, and a good show can have imperfect animation.



[/ QUOTE ]

Errr...the question is not asking whether the particular anime is good or not. In fact I like many of the anime where the animation quality dropped simply because of the superior storytelling.

[/ QUOTE ]

when i said good i meant animation quality wise not the show as a whole, sorry for being unclear

[something]

[ QUOTE ]
Nani said:
GITS: SAC has great action scenes as well as slick animation.

[/ QUOTE ]
One thing I'll give SAC (well, I'll give it a lot actually, it's frickin awesome) is that it's perhaps the most tolerable use of 3dcg in an anime that I've come across.

Anyone who had read my posts in threads about 3dcg knows that I despise it with the burning passion of a trillion suns at the point of supernova, but the GitS:SAC Tachikomas are easily the best integrated 3dcg I've seen, which is even more remarkable given that they're even vehicle 3dcg, which is always notoriously bad (I can't stand the use of 3dcg for cars/traffic scenes, for example -- it even looks shit in GitS:SAC). GitS gets major points from me for that.