Generic death scenes [Archive]

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roastedpekingduck

08-01-2006, 07:05 PM

While this post mostly deals with death scenes in anime, I'll say that this regular movies are also riddled with these scenes.

After having watched over a year of anime, I've noticed that all death scenes of close characters mostly follow a pattern. Let's call the main character Tyrone and the dying supporting character Jose.
*Tyrone disbelievingly walks over to Jose who is spilling blood

Tyrone: I can't believe this! I-it's all my fault. I was the one who got you killed!

Jose: It was not your fault. Don't take it too hard on yourself.

Tyrone: But it was my fault. Will you ever forgive me?

Jose: Take it easy. I will forgive you because it was not your fault. *coughs blood suddenly and keels over (the coughing of blood ALWAYS happens without fail!! WITHOUT FAIL!!)

Tyrone: No, Jose! Hold on. Help will be here soon.

Jose: Hey, remember that time we (insert endearing memory here).

Tyrone: Yeah. I'll always remember that moment.

Jose: (insert sudden phrase here such as, I've always loved you, you always were my best friend, etc).

Tyrone: Stop talking such nonsense Jose...Jose?...Jose?...JOSE?! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! JOOOOSSSEEEEEE!!!!!

I may have missed a few other moments here and there, but this is the basic outline of 80-90% of the death scenes of supporting characters. The first few times, I saw these scenes, I managed, but now, these scenes sometimes kill really poignant moments. Today, as I watched Gankutsuou volume 5, for example, Franz's death was originally something extremely heartbreaking. The buildup to his death was extremely well done in my opinion. I frankly think however, that the last words, should have been the words from the letter. Franz should have died the moment Count stabbed him. After good old Al scurries up to him, I immediately new that I was going to see death scene following that sort of outline. I ended up predicting the majority of the lines, and the coughing up of blood was even worse. Granted, the moments afterwards in later scenes redeemed the worth of his death, and thinking back, it was quite heartbreaking, but in that moment whe Albert and Franz were uttering last words to each other, I was pretty agitated. I just hope that more writers used "sudden deaths" where a character dies without those cheesy "last words", and just leaves a character to think on about what happened and the audience to ponder that. In a way, I find that more effective and shock-provoking. What are your thoughts?

Dagger

08-01-2006, 07:24 PM

*shrugs* I didn't find that scene to be cheesy. A show can have a death scene with the kind of basic set-up that you described and can nevertheless make that scene rise far above mediocrity.

In the case of Gankutsuou, I strongly disagree with the idea that Franz's letter should have been voiced over at the end of episode 18. That would have been the trite way out. The key aspect of the final exchange is that it doesn't warm Albert's heart, it doesn't fill him with passionate resolve, it doesn't offer him closure, it doesn't assuage his guilt; hence the nightmare sequence in episode 19 and the letter coming at the very end of the arc, in episode 20. Those three exchanges between Albert and Franz (or a spiritual representation of Franz) are inherently linked to one another and could almost be viewed as an unbroken conversation taking place within Albert's psyche from the moment that he realizes Franz has gone to take his place until Eugenie gives him the letter & he reads it.

Even going beyond the specific sequence you're refering to, I predicted the exact progression of events in episode 18 well ahead of time (which is unusual for me, haha). But the writing, IMO, was good enough that the predictability of this part of the storyline actually added to its power. For me, that carried over into Franz's death scene as well. I don't think that these kind of "generic" death scenes should never be used. In fact, they're used so often as shortcuts because even inferior writers can sometimes strike gold with them, or because the very idea of such a scene strikes a chord with people as this kind of archetypal thing.

When Tyrone and Jose aren't merely cardboard cut-out characters, when they've received a lot of development and their relationship feels honest and real, then I'd tell the scriptwriter to go for it. That's why Franz's death worked so well for me. It would've held very little meaning if they'd been the picture-perfect best friends. The fact that they were constantly squabbling and misunderstanding one another and longing for the innocent days when they got along better is what makes Franz's final moments--and everything about his death, including his apparent contentment--so stupid, tragic and awful. In the best sense of all three words.

And after blabbering on, I'm going to say that that's neither here or there, because I do agree that it's a shame when these scenes are poorly done. Then again, bad writing is always a shame.

roastedpekingduck

08-01-2006, 07:35 PM

You are correct in the fact that Gankutsuou manages to do well while fulfilling many cliches and I respect your opinion and at the end for me, Franz's death did little to make Gankutsuou seem worse than the masterpiece that it was. I did wish though, that the creators would have gone for something at least a little different. In my opinion, if something happens way too much, it kinda loses its strength. Using a metaphor, people who experience a lot of killings are more numb to slaughter around them. I watch a lot of movies, so after seeing so many movies where similiar death scenes happen and even similiar aftermaths occur (character is in doubt after death, is lost, later relies on another friend or friends to find closure, and turns death into inspiration), the emotional impact is lessened for me. Again I stress, however, Gankutsuou is a wonderful series regardless of that scene.

Lego

08-01-2006, 07:42 PM

I agree with the later half of your post(thought the scene in question in Gakutsuou was great). The hallmark of a good series is that how cliche a death may be, it carries weight because the series has made you care about the characters. Hell, when side character A gets killed, one may go "woops, hes dead". But for me, when you care about a character(s), not matter how corny a death scene is, it sticks with you.

Dagger

08-01-2006, 08:21 PM

Actually, now that you've got my interest /images/graemlins/wink.gif, which anime deaths would you cite as breaking the mold (I mean, not just doing something different from the wah-wah-coughing blood scenario, but doing something different in general).

Dying messages are a tricky thing. One final-message scene that sticks out in my memory is from X TV, when Seishirou whispers something to Subaru but the viewer has to guess what he's saying. Kind of annoying, but it worked pretty well in the context of the characters that were being dealt with. Of course, I may only be remembering that one episode so sharply because it was kind of traumatic for me, haha, seeing how as I'm a Tokyo Babylon fan.

roastedpekingduck

08-01-2006, 08:27 PM

You took that one from X TV right out of my mind. Spoilers for Trigun, Gungrave, and Planetes ahead.
 I also like the how Wolfwood's death was handled in Trigun. I found Hachi's Sensei's death in Planetes perfectly done too with just an empty bed and a video being shown. My personal favorite is the ending of Trigun, where Grave and Harry mutually kill each other.

masterpez

08-01-2006, 09:40 PM

Just to warn you a bit. Someone will probably view the spoilers in your post and only think that you're going to mention X TV, when in fact you've also mentioned spoilers for Planetes, Trigun, and Gungrave. Had I not seen all 3 of those already, I probably would've been mad. You may want to place a warning in your post so that people know what series you'll be refering to beforehand.

roastedpekingduck

08-01-2006, 10:52 PM

Corrected. Thanks for pointing that out to me.

roastedpekingduck

08-02-2006, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
when side character A gets killed, one may go "woops, hes dead".

[/ QUOTE ]
I would still be rather mad if that happened, regardless of quality of character. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Suwako Moriya

08-02-2006, 11:08 PM

Well you can find a pattern in almost anything. Still some death scenes definitely over do it. However for me what bothers me the most are cases where a character finally gets focused on, but only because they are going to be killed five minutes later figuratively speaking. It's like they're only being developed so they can be killed for shock value.

Suwako Moriya

08-02-2006, 11:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
roastedpekingduck said:
[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
when side character A gets killed, one may go "woops, hes dead".

[/ QUOTE ]
I would still be rather mad if that happened, regardless of quality of character. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually in some cases the side characters are much better than the main characters anyway. So there are times I'd be thinking "No don't kill side character C. Let her live and kill main character B instead. Well because he's boring as heck". I'm serious there.

roastedpekingduck

08-02-2006, 11:13 PM

Unfortunately I think that from FMA the death of Hughes falls somewhat into that category. If the death of a character is important for the development of the main character, fine, but once supporting characters start getting really defined and molded, it's really disappointing to see them die.

You are not alone in wishes for the main character to die by the way. By the way, kind of off topic, I rarely main character deaths that leave supporting characters to close the ending. That kind of happened in Gungrave where the last words come from Mika when Harry and Brandon have shot each other.

08-03-2006, 12:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
roastedpekingduck said:
Unfortunately I think that from FMA the death of Hughes falls somewhat into that category. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't say so. It affects all of the other major characters throughout the rest of the series, some quite a lot. I don't think there was anything cheap about how they did it, and it became an important part of the plot both during and after. Plus it says alot about how good a job a show is doing of building up it's characters when the viewer feels it too. I was quite sad to see Hughes go.

roastedpekingduck

08-03-2006, 11:26 AM

To me though, he was just become a nice character. In the beginning, he didn't have as much depth, and I think he could have been killed after he received more development.

Gatts

08-03-2006, 01:16 PM

The thing that I dislike the most about generic death scenes is when they name the episode after the character that's going to die. It's like putting up a big sign that says "Hey! This person is going to die this episode!" It happens far too often in my opinion.

There is one series that had a non generic death scene that was really well done though. Nadeshico. Plus the fact that it happens so early in the series makes it even more well done.

Also for the most part Dragonball Z manages to avoid generic death scenes, however there are so many of them (with the same character no less) that people tend to get numb to them. I think the first death of Krilin was well done. Just a boom and a pop and it's over.

By contrast, Rave Master (Groove Adventure Rave), had the textbook generic death scene with the death of Haru's father Gale. Cowboy Bebop was no better with the death of Julia, but at least they handled the other deaths in the series better.

itsuka

08-03-2006, 02:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Gatts said:
The thing that I dislike the most about generic death scenes is when they name the episode after the character that's going to die. It's like putting up a big sign that says "Hey! This person is going to die this episode!" It happens far too often in my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes... there are even series that actually name the episode "The death of character X", and they already spoil it in the preview. Didn't they do that sort of thing on a couple of Gundam episodes?

Lego

08-03-2006, 06:22 PM

That happened in one or two Hime episodes where they would spoil who was going to get the axe heh.

roastedpekingduck

08-03-2006, 08:30 PM

On the contrary, in X TV, the point is for you to know who is going to die. The death scenes in X TV weren't too cliched by the way, and the ending wasn't that cliched either. It was like Gungrave, where there was a buildup to a "this is so obvious" ending, and sort of did a turn.

ZenAmako

08-03-2006, 09:10 PM

In anime, the dying character's last words are typically, "I'm glad to have met you". Don't know how many times I've heard that one, but it's a lot.

Captain Impulse

08-03-2006, 11:08 PM

I'll give you some non-traditional death scenes that I've "enjoyed" throughout various series:

Martian Successor Nadesico - Gai gets capped almost non-chalantly in episode 3(?); I didn't realize he was actually DEAD dead because it didn't have all the trademark death scene cliches. It was just BAM, dead.

Outlaw Star - Hilda's death in episode 4 was done well, although she did have some parting words, her death was fitting (and unavoidable). She was my favorite character, too. *sniff*

Suwako Moriya

08-04-2006, 11:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Lego said:
That happened in one or two Hime episodes where they would spoil who was going to get the axe heh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh you have to wonder what they were thinking when they did it. That's the problem with some previews. While I don't believe previews need to be 100% spoiler free because they're supposed to entice entrance. I think some previews do end up going too far.

Rolancehack

08-04-2006, 12:43 PM

Another couple of series with well done death scenes were RahXephon and Generator Gawl.

In RahXephon Episode 19 has one of the best death sequences in all of anime, in my opinon, and even though it uses the cliched death message, the way the episode was set up was just beautiful and really made it feel less cliched then it was.

In Gawl they pull the same stunt, and have the overly long death message but you don't get the "cough" of blood that you do in RahXephon.

roastedpekingduck

08-04-2006, 05:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Rolan Cehack said:

In RahXephon Episode 19 has one of the best death sequences in all of anime, in my opinon, and even though it uses the cliched death message, the way the episode was set up was just beautiful and really made it feel less cliched then it was.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have to admit, the deaths in RahXephon were quite well done, especially with the red and blue blood contrast. In that series I personally thought that Asahina's death was the "best" one. It's also not too generic, as Ayato is the one that's killing her, and she never really has real dying last words with him. In the end though, everybody was back alive. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif