Air gear edited? [Archive]

Red1212

08-25-2006, 11:28 AM

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akcoll99 said:
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Natsume Maya said:
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Red1212 said:
The cover art for volume 2 is going to be edited though. Is there any way to get this thing released without an cover art edit?

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I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking what fans can do to get Del Rey to change its mind? I think it's probably too late for that. It's nearly September and IIRC volume 2 will be released in October. I'd expect that everything's been finalised for print by now (if it hasn't already gone to print).

If the cover art is important to you, buy a copy of a non-English edition.

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I wonder if it's possible for them to include the unedited cover shot somewhere on the inside of the volume, if it's not in there anywhere already?

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If I'm correct, the only reason Del Rey is censoring the cover art of vol 2, is because they don't want to offend some folks at the bookstores, right? If so, why won't Del Rey make this particular with an edited cover a "bookstore-excluseive" only, and sell the volume 2 of Air Gear with the un-changed cover through their online store or something? I know that a manga which is being sold online, and having a different cover art than its counter part that's being sold at the regular bookstores, isn't all that rare. If I remember correctly, few years ago Viz sold the first volumes of Shaman King and Yu-Gi-Oh! with laminated, foil cover art through their online store. It was a limited edition release, and was an online store exclusive. So, it'd be nice of Del Rey to do something like that, and make the second volume with an unedited cover availabe for purchase, at least on their website.

Noodle

08-25-2006, 01:21 PM

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Red1212 said:
If I remember correctly, few years ago Viz sold the first volumes of Shaman King and Yu-Gi-Oh! with laminated, foil cover art through their online store. It was a limited edition release, and was an online store exclusive. So, it'd be nice of Del Rey to do something like that, and make the second volume with an unedited cover availabe for purchase, at least on their website.

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Technically unrelated since of course this has nothing to do with Air Gear, (and ditto to the point used as part of your arguement, btw) but just so there isn't wrong information floating around: The limited edition covers for the JUMP line were NOT an online exclusive. I bought all of mine in a bookstore. Naruto and Yugioh were sold individually, but I think there was also a boxset of 5 (shaman king, dragon ball z and yuyu hakusho were the others I think) that also had the silver covers.

akcoll99

08-25-2006, 03:33 PM

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Red1212 said:
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akcoll99 said:
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Natsume Maya said:
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Red1212 said:
The cover art for volume 2 is going to be edited though. Is there any way to get this thing released without an cover art edit?

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I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking what fans can do to get Del Rey to change its mind? I think it's probably too late for that. It's nearly September and IIRC volume 2 will be released in October. I'd expect that everything's been finalised for print by now (if it hasn't already gone to print).

If the cover art is important to you, buy a copy of a non-English edition.

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I wonder if it's possible for them to include the unedited cover shot somewhere on the inside of the volume, if it's not in there anywhere already?

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If I'm correct, the only reason Del Rey is censoring the cover art of vol 2, is because they don't want to offend some folks at the bookstores, right? If so, why won't Del Rey make this particular with an edited cover a "bookstore-excluseive" only, and sell the volume 2 of Air Gear with the un-changed cover through their online store or something? I know that a manga which is being sold online, and having a different cover art than its counter part that's being sold at the regular bookstores, isn't all that rare. If I remember correctly, few years ago Viz sold the first volumes of Shaman King and Yu-Gi-Oh! with laminated, foil cover art through their online store. It was a limited edition release, and was an online store exclusive. So, it'd be nice of Del Rey to do something like that, and make the second volume with an unedited cover availabe for purchase, at least on their website.

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The cover thing in this case is not a make-or-break proposition. I can honestly live with the 'American' cover for the book. I just thought it would be a chance to make everyone happy if they could at least supply the original cover as a color page on the inside of the book or something, especially since it's probably going to be shrinkwrapped anyway...

Red1212

08-25-2006, 10:23 PM

Not a chance. The only colored pages that're gonna appear in Air Gear vol 2, are the ones that were in the original Japanese tankobon. The only thing that I actually hope for, is that Del Rey would make the second volume with an unedited cover available through their website. After all, the only reason that they're censoring the vol 2 cover art, is because they don't want to upset someone at a local bookstore. So at least, if they can put out volume 2 with an unedited cover on their Del Rey Online shop, they can still satisfy the fans who want the unedited cover art, and avoid any scandals at the same time, concerning from those watchdogs, that Random House is practically terrified about.

GodaiStudios

08-26-2006, 12:38 AM

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Red1212 said:
Not a chance. The only colored pages that're gonna appear in Air Gear vol 2, are the ones that were in the original Japanese tankobon. The only thing that I actually hope for, is that Del Rey would make the second volume with an unedited cover available through their website. After all, the only reason that they're censoring the vol 2 cover art, is because they don't want to upset someone at a local bookstore. So at least, if they can put out volume 2 with an unedited cover on their Del Rey Online shop, they can still satisfy the fans who want the unedited cover art, and avoid any scandals at the same time, concerning from those watchdogs, that Random House is practically terrified about.

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What I don't get is that I have yet to see any watchdog groups for manga - sure, I don't want them to start, but given the content that's been published so far, I'd say that they have little to fear.

Even so, a different cover is not a make or break for me, so long as the content found inside is unaltered.

Red1212

08-26-2006, 01:00 AM

Yeah, but the fact of the matter is, that Del Rey Manga is afraid of receiving complaints about the content of the manga that they publish, let alone the lawsuits. As a warning, we should all know that there's chance of Del Rey to start editing the manga that they publish. In fact this has already happenned, albeit in small degrees. The removal of couple of doujinshi pages from the recent Genshiken volumes, the censored cover art for the English version of Air Gear volume 2, and of course the toning down of the dialogue in the first volume. Proof? Here's a little article that I found at the Publishers Weekly website : Publishers Weekly (http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6358278.html?nid=2789)

And there, Dallas Middaugh of Del Rey Manga clearly states that Del Rey has "toned down the dialogue to reduce sexual references in the first volume." Whoops. I guess that line about Chako's possible "first time" magically becoming "what could've happened to us next time" wasn't a translation/adaptation error after all. It was a deliberate and intentional edit, on behalf of Del Rey. And you know what? Expect more of that in the future. I know that there's gonna be more sexual references and perverted jokes in Air Gear later on, since it's written by Oh!Great. So there's gonna be plenty of dialogue edits in the future, believe me.

golthin

08-26-2006, 03:23 AM

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Red1212 said:
And there, Dallas Middaugh of Del Rey Manga clearly states that Del Rey has "toned down the dialogue to reduce sexual references in the first volume." Whoops. I guess that line about Chako's possible "first time" magically becoming "what could've happened to us next time" wasn't a translation/adaptation error after all. It was a deliberate and intentional edit, on behalf of Del Rey. And you know what? Expect more of that in the future. I know that there's gonna be more sexual and perverted jokes and references in Air Gear, later on, since it's written by Oh!Great. So there's gonna be plenty of dialogue edits, believe me.

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It is reality, we better learn to live with it. If you want accurate translated manga or Anime, you will have to learn Japanese, you can't trust anime or Manga companies anymore.

Razb

08-26-2006, 09:34 AM

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Red1212 said:
Yeah, but the fact of the matter is, that Del Rey Manga is afraid of receiving complaints about the content of the manga that they publish, let alone the lawsuits. As a warning, we should all know that there's chance of Del Rey to start editing the manga that they publish. In fact this has already happenned, albeit in small degrees. The removal of couple of doujunshi pages from the recent Genshiken volumes, the censored cover art for the English version of Air Gear volume 2, and of course the toning down of the dialogue in the first volume. Proof? Here's a little article that I found at the Publishers Weekly website : Publishers Weekly (http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6358278.html?nid=2789)

And there, Dallas Middaugh of Del Rey Manga clearly states that Del Rey has "toned down the dialogue to reduce sexual references in the first volume." Whoops. I guess that line about Chako's possible "first time" magically becoming "what could've happened to us next time" wasn't a translation/adaptation error after all. It was a deliberate and intentional edit, on behalf of Del Rey. And you know what? Expect more of that in the future. I know that there's gonna be more sexual and perverted jokes and references in Air Gear, later on, since it's written by Oh!Great. So there's gonna be plenty of dialogue edits, believe me.

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Nice catch. The relevant quotes:

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Publishers Weekly Article:
While Air Gear contains a fraction of the nudity contained in Tenjho Tenge, Oh! Great throws in panty-shots with abandon. Sexual situations are still part of the storyline, and rape and sodomy are alluded to although not depicted. Middaugh says that Del Rey Manga will not edit the art although it has "toned down dialogue to reduce [sexual references] in the first volume." While Air Gear is not considered a mature manga, it will be shrinkwrapped and rated 16+.

Air Gear was Del Rey Manga's big release at the San Diego Comic-Con and fans may be tempted to compare Del Rey's decision to shrinkwrap Air Gear to CMX's editing of Tenten. However, Middaugh doesn't believe it's an apt comparison. "It's not quite an apples-to-apples comparison," he says. "Air Gear was serialized in Shonen magazine. Tenten was serialized in a magazine for adults. If we need to edit a book for the American market—edit it in a major way like CMX did—then that's not a book we should publish. DC/CMX were in a very different situation."

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Err, so heavily altering dialogue referring to the rape of a character when said rape later becomes a motive for other characters to fight isn't a "major" or significant change? Censoring the words is just as important and irritating as censoring the art, Del Rey. Somebody should remove the question mark from the thread title now.

jlazar

08-27-2006, 10:32 AM

Yes, it's really bad they they made these changes and are in denial that they aren't 'major'. Even without artwork edits, changing the story intentionally is unacceptible.

I'll be crossing this title off my to buy list. And now we have to keep an eye on Del Ray again.

Unitentional translations screwups are bad enough, but when they deliberately set up to change the story to hide things liek this, it's ediitng and censorship. Shame on Del Ray and the booksellers who support such censorship..

chloes_fork

08-27-2006, 12:51 PM

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Red1212 said:
The removal of couple of doujinshi pages from the recent Genshiken volumes

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Aw, hell. What did they remove from Genshiken? And here I was singing Del Rey's praises just a couple of days ago ....

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golthin said:
If you want accurate translated manga or Anime, you will have to learn Japanese, you can't trust anime or Manga companies anymore.

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Well, the problem's not nearly so pervasive in anime. But as far as manga publishers go, it seems you're pretty much right.

Natsume_Maya

08-27-2006, 01:04 PM

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chloes_fork said:
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Red1212 said:
The removal of couple of doujinshi pages from the recent Genshiken volumes

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Aw, hell. What did they remove from Genshiken? And here I was singing Del Rey's praises just a couple of days ago ....

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See this thread:
http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=2&Number=1409684
(Sorry, I've deleted the pages I scanned in - if you wanted to see them, let me know and I'll upload again.)

Firstly, I don't know if you can say what happened to Genshiken is censorship. All we know for sure is that Del Rey included with volume 6 only an "extract" of the doujinshi which came with the limited edition version of volume 6 in Japan. It's not like the pages which were left out were particularly explicit. Maybe there was a difficulty licensing the additional pages...? Maybe they're to be included with volume 7...? Maybe Del Rey left them out for space/time considerations?

Secondly, personally I wouldn't consider this censorship in that the whole of volume 6 is still intact (not that I've tried comparing it to the Japanese edition). The doujinshi was not included with the regular edition of volume 6 in Japan, so I regard the fact that Del Rey included any part of the doujinshi with volume 6 as a bonus.

chloes_fork

08-27-2006, 01:16 PM

Thanks for the link and info.

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Natsume Maya said:
Firstly, I don't know if you can say what happened to Genshiken is censorship.

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Except there's the statement by Del Rey reps that Jarred reported in the linked thread. And it might seem that there would be no sensible content reason to remove these pages, but I think we've learned by now that manga edits are frequently bizarre and arbitrary things.

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Secondly, personally I wouldn't consider this censorship in that the whole of volume 6 is still intact (not that I've tried comparing it to the Japanese edition). The doujinshi was not included with the regular edition of volume 6 in Japan, so I regard the fact that Del Rey included any part of the doujinshi with volume 6 as a bonus.

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Well, this is a good point. Still, having decided to include the doujinshi pages, to selectively remove some because of content issues (if that's what happened) still gets into an uncomfortable area to me.

MalrocK

08-27-2006, 02:17 PM

Dammit, Del Rey too? This is ridiculous. Screw this, I'm giving up on all US manga. I'm tired of this crap. Removing/ changing dialogue to tone down a story is just as bad as removing the nudity. I had a lot of respect for Dallas, hopefully my faith wasn't misguided....

musouka

08-27-2006, 06:50 PM

I'm not usually one to get het up over manga edits such as erasing nipples or changing a middle finger into a fist, to be honest, but this one actually bothers me. I think it's not only the fact that they are deliberately changing the story around to get rid of elements they don't approve of, but they then bragged about it in PW. And not only that, but they put down another manga company in the process.

Look, I love CMX a lot. I'll admit it. But even I don't condone what they did to TenTen. It doesn't bother me as much as it does some people, but that doesn't mean I think it was a smart or good thing to do. However, bringing it up as an example of "yeah, sure, we're editing stuff, but at least we're not like THEM" really rubs me the wrong way.

As far as I'm concerned, Del Rey doesn't really have much of a leg to stand on. Yes, TenTen has both art and dialogue edits, but just because they only did one of the two doesn't mean I'm going to pat Del Rey on the head because they didn't do worse. I'm sure other people would disagree, but I'd much prefer to have no nipples than I would to have the actual plot changed.

The only good thing, for me, is that I'm not interested in Oh Great's work. I feel bad for those of you that are.

Red1212

08-27-2006, 09:30 PM

First off, let's not jump to conclusions and start referring to Del Rey Manga in the same sense as we do to Viz or Tokyopop, in terms of editing. While what they're doing now to Air Gear is technically editing it, they're not full-blown manga censors like Viz Media. At least not yet. Because of that, we still have a chance to convince them to at least put out the vol 2 of Air Gear with an unedited cover on their website, and available for us fans to purchase. Since their decision to release the vol 2 with a censored cover in bookstores has been probably finalized now, and it's probably has been done so that those mainstream bookstores who might be uncomfortable carrying something with risque cover art, will have no problems stocking the second volume. So yeah, while there's nothing we can do about the Air Gear vol 2 which is being released in bookstores, we can at least demand from Del Rey to make the second volume of Air Gear with uncensored cover art, available through their online store. By doing so, Del Rey Manga can still please the fans, and not have to deal with those uptight retailers at the same time.

Just keep one thing in mind: unlike Viz Media and Tokyopop , Del Rey is NOT numb towards the opinions of the fans. In fact, they actually CARE about what fans think. If anyone can remember what happened 2 years ago, when Del Rey initially planned to censor nudity and sexual references in Negima and how the fan outcry quickly made them to change their plans and release it uncut, should know what I'm talking about. So, let's not put the good company with good reputation on the same level as those two dumbass industry giants named Viz and Tokyopop. Consider this: when TP released their "modern American slang" saturated, jazzed up dialogue-filled, and not to mention with the censored art version of Initial D, what was the fan reaction? Fans were irate and mad as hell about this, of course. And what did Tokyopop had so say about it? First, they told everyone how they had big plans to turn Initial D into a huge franchise, and for that the censorship and the Americanization was necessary for that to happen. Then TP had the nerve to mock the fans of Initial D, who wanted the manga to remain unchanged, by saying:
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If the manga with the altered names isn’t your thing, that’s cool, and we certainly respect your right to disagree with us. (We’re thinking of shrink-wrapping the ‘nicknames’ version of the manga with a bottle of White-Out and a felt-tip pen so that fans can make their own name-changes as they see fit - whaddya think?)

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You can read TP's whole "response" here (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=2304)
Over 4 years passed. Did Tokyopop changed their minds, and gave in to fans demand? No they did NOT. They're still publishing the "tricked out" version of Initial D manga.

Then, take a look at Viz and their handling of I''s. The approach that they took with that title, has made me question the very existence of their so-called "Shonen Jump Advanced" label. After all, they DID claim that with the SJ Advanced label, they can now "publish Shonen Jump manga, which're mature for younger audiences, uncensored." And considering that the manga that they published were subjected to the same editing treatment, as all the other regular SJ titles, that made Viz nothing more than a bunch of lying scum. When the readers demanded to know why I''s been censored, this (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=6449) was their response. As you can see, Viz did not explain why the title was censored, even though it was rated "OT" and was for ages 16 and up, all that Viz did was vehemently insist that all the edits in I''s was done with the author's blessings. And that was it. It's been more than a year since the first volume of I''s came out from Viz, and evey single volume that came out so far, has been censored.

On the other hand, when Del Rey stated that they're gonna edit Negima, the furor that was resulted from this, made them rethink their plans. And they did just what the fans wanted, and gave them the unadulaterated and unchanged English version of Negima. Why they did that?
Because there's no way in hell Random House, the parent company of Del Rey Manga and the biggest book publisher in U.S, would invest millions of dollars in creating a manga label, which has a tarnished reputation, and is detested by the fans. Because it's for their own good (both money and reputation-wise) if the fans hold Del Rey in high regard.
And if Del Rey were able to do justice with Negima, I think they can do the same with Air Gear. So all we have to do is ask from them. They'll listen. Besides, for the last 2 and 1/2 years, with Del Rey I've had the best consumer/corporation relationship than I ever did with Viz, Tokyopop or even Dark Horse Manga. And that was all not for nothing. So, please do not go comparing Del Rey with Viz or TP. If there's any problem with their manga, we should all just ask them to correct it. And with enough fan demand, maybe Del Rey will make the English version of vol 2 of Air Gear, with an unchanged cover art available online. And who knows, if enough of us ask for it, we might get all the future reprintings of vol 1, without the dialogue edits. Ever since the fans of Negima (myself included) demanded that one of their favorite titles to remain uncensored and DR obliged, it was a proof that among the numerous manga oublishers in U.S, there IS one who actually cares about what the fans think.

jlazar

08-27-2006, 09:49 PM

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Red1212 said:It's been more than a year since the first volume of I''s came out from Viz, and evey single volume that came out so far, has been censored.

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Actually, volume 5 wasn't censored for some reason (maybe the people who dislike nipples at Viz were on vacation) and vol 6 really had nothing to censor nipple-wise.

Otherwise I agree.

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On the other hand, when Del Rey stated that they're gonna edit Negima, the furor that was resulted from this, made them rethink their plans.

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Technically, it's the fans that discovered the plans from Ken Akamatsu's website. DelRay didn't fess up until after the shit hit the fan.

Otherwise, I agree DelRay isn't as bad as Viz or TP, but this does shake what faith we had in them. The story is as important as the artwork, so intentionally changing it like this is not a good thing and not something that should go unchallened.

musouka

08-27-2006, 10:28 PM

It's not about the cover, it's about purposely editing dialogue. I didn't like it when Tokyopop did it with Dukylon, and I don't like it when Del Rey does it either.

Randycat

08-27-2006, 10:42 PM

Tokyopop did it with Dukylon? What did they do?

musouka

08-27-2006, 10:53 PM

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Randycat said:
Tokyopop did it with Dukylon? What did they do?

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As I recall, they didn't translate quite a few of Kentarou's come ons to Takeshi correctly. The one I remember standing out was when Kentarou was talking about becoming a bride? (Sorry, it's been, literally, years since I read either version)

I remember taking a look in the bookstore, going back home and looking at my original volumes, then going back again to verify that it was edited. It was.

flchick

08-27-2006, 10:56 PM

Totally agree with the above statement of Del Rey thinking they are better then CMX- Oh Please
At least CMX has learned their lesson

I bought Air Gear, and when I found out about the story line change I was pissed. Del Rey basically slapped the fans in the face by changing the story line. The rape issue is part of the character and Del Rey has basically changed the whole background story.

Red1212

08-27-2006, 11:15 PM

We can always hope for DR undoing the dialogue editing in the future printings of the volume 1. Remember how vol 3 of Negima had a screw-up with translating of Thousand Master's name as the "Southern Master"? Even though in that it was a translation error, and not toning down of the dialogue, that part was corrected nonetheless. So, in the case of Air Gear, we can ask DR to remove that dialogue edit. You can contact the company at webmaster@randomhouse.com or you can just sign up for their online newsletter, and when you receive your issue, you can reply directly to their representatives/editors. That's how I send my inquiries to them.

Natsume_Maya

08-27-2006, 11:15 PM

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flchick said:
Totally agree with the above statement of Del Rey thinking they are better then CMX- Oh Please
At least CMX has learned their lesson

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I'm reserving my decision on CMX. For one thing, they have never responded to the questions on this forum whether CMX would do the same thing as they did to Tenjou Tenge to another manga.

For another, see this part of an ICv2 interview with DC's CEO Paul Levitz last week:
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/9192.html

I'll quote the relevant part:
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Levitz: What happened on Tenjho Tenge is we did a series of changes in conjunction with the artist and the publisher of the material in Japan to give it the widest possible distribution in the U.S. The unedited material would not have been able to reach as many points of distribution. Part of what most of our partners aspire to in the manga business is they really want to affect the culture of the U.S. The U.S. is not the most lucrative market for a manga publisher or a manga artist. What they really want to do is bring their material to a larger number of people. If that requires alteration, some of them are not just happy to do that, but prefer to do that. I think we'll always talk with our partners about how they want their material published in this country.

We've heard the fan reaction, the otaku reaction, and that they were unhappy about it. We're going to think hard if we're going to choose to have a series where they'd really like to see an unedited version and we don't feel comfortable publishing an unedited version or we don't feel an unedited version can get enough distribution before acquiring something like that. Part of the challenge is sometimes you're acquiring a series before it's finished. It may change over the course of its life and that will always be a certain amount of challenge.

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To me, what those paragraphs basically boil down to is: 'We'll think hard about it, but if the price is right, we'll censor it. Sometimes our partners prefer that we censor it.'

Randycat

08-27-2006, 11:20 PM

If they reprint Air Gear vol.1 with corrected dialogue, do you think it would be possible to return the edited version/exchange it with them? I doubt the bookstores will let me by that time. Has something like this ever been done before? (where the company let you exchange edited for non-edited versions)?

musouka

08-27-2006, 11:23 PM

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Natsume Maya said:
To me, what those paragraphs basically boil down to is: 'We'll think hard about it, but if the price is right, we'll censor it. Sometimes our partners prefer that we censor it.'

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And to me, what they boil down to is, "We'll be more careful about which series we pick up." Either way, nothing they've published since has been edited, and they went back and fixed Sword of the Dark Ones. And even if it does mean "we might edit in the future", that seems to put them on level with every other US manga company, not below-to-the-depths-of-hell.

In any case, this isn't a CMX thread, and trying to make a company's editing policy look better by bringing up TenTen still wins them absolutely no brownie points from me.

Natsume_Maya

08-27-2006, 11:47 PM

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musouka said:
And to me, what they boil down to is, "We'll be more careful about which series we pick up." Either way, nothing they've published since has been edited, and they went back and fixed Sword of the Dark Ones. And even if it does mean "we might edit in the future", that seems to put them on level with every other US manga company, not below-to-the-depths-of-hell.

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I can accept that. Though I disagree that CMX is on the same level as every other US manga company. As far as I'm aware, no other US manga company has altered a work as much as CMX has done with Tenjou Tenge. I've done no comparison but I'm willing to assume that there are more edits in just volume 1 of CMX's Tenjou Tenge than there are edits in the whole of Del Rey's manga catalogue. To me, that's a different level.

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In any case, this isn't a CMX thread, and trying to make a company's editing policy look better by bringing up TenTen still wins them absolutely no brownie points from me.

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I kinda agree with you there, but it seems we differ on the interpretation of the PW article too. To re-quote the PW article:

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Air Gear was Del Rey Manga's big release at the San Diego Comic-Con and fans may be tempted to compare Del Rey's decision to shrinkwrap Air Gear to CMX's editing of Tenten. However, Middaugh doesn't believe it's an apt comparison. "It's not quite an apples-to-apples comparison," he says. "Air Gear was serialized in Shonen magazine. Tenten was serialized in a magazine for adults. If we need to edit a book for the American market—edit it in a major way like CMX did—then that's not a book we should publish. DC/CMX were in a very different situation."

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The PW article is published more as a narrative than the ICv2 article which was in Q&A format, so I can't be certain, but it seems to me that Dallas Middaugh was asked a question comparing the edits in Air Gear to the edits in TenTen. He's just answering that question, rather than raising it himself. He's drawing points of distinction so as to avoid the kind of backlash against Air Gear as occurred against TenTen. When an interviewer has drawn a connection between the edits in both series, I don't think he could have just accepted the similarity. Perhaps it was impolite to say they wouldn't have published a book that way, but it doesn't seem like bragging to me.

musouka

08-28-2006, 12:06 AM

When I say CMX is on the level of every other publisher, I mean that if they do edit again, it will most likely be something small like most other manga companies. I strongly doubt they will ever perpetuate another TenTen. But, personally? I think they'll try to stick to stuff that won't need editing, because that's what we've seen them do for the past year or so.

What I said they were bragging, it was about toning down the sexual allusions in Air Gear, not about CMX and TenTen. In retrospect, bragging is the wrong word, but I really can't honestly believe that he copped to that in a published interview, especially since people were giving Del Rey a pass on the issue, thinking it was a translation issue instead of a deliberate attempt to edit. (I know you didn't, but no one was sure of what was going on)

Let me put it this way. Editing TenTen was stupid and not good. The main reason I cut CMX so much slack is because they were brand new, and I see a lot of improvement in many, many areas. Del Rey, on the other hand, has already been through this with Negima. To see them admit that Air Gear has been edited, but use TenTen as a way to smooth it over leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

To you, as an Oh Great fan, do you think just because TenTen is edited, you should be happy with whatever you get as long as it's "not as bad as TenTen"?

Natsume_Maya

08-28-2006, 01:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
When I say CMX is on the level of every other publisher, I mean that if they do edit again, it will most likely be something small like most other manga companies. I strongly doubt they will ever perpetuate another TenTen. But, personally? I think they'll try to stick to stuff that won't need editing, because that's what we've seen them do for the past year or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can agree with that, though I do wonder whether perhaps in part this is because at present CMX is a smaller player in the market and often licenses lesser known titles. If they get a big title, I think there may be censorship again, although not on the scale of TenTen.

I'd just point out that although I seem to be the most vocal person on this forum at present regarding TenTen edits, I can forgive CMX for it (particularly given their record since) and I understand if they say that it's too late to change positions on that title now. I just won't forget it (nor do I think it should be forgotten, which is not to say I'll bring up the issue in every single time CMX is mentioned on these boards /images/graemlins/happy.gif ).

[ QUOTE ]
Del Rey, on the other hand, has already been through this with Negima. To see them admit that Air Gear has been edited, but use TenTen as a way to smooth it over leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[/ QUOTE ]

We just disagree on the interpretation of that article there.

[ QUOTE ]
To you, as an Oh Great fan, do you think just because TenTen is edited, you should be happy with whatever you get as long as it's "not as bad as TenTen"?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I'm not happy with the censorship on Air Gear. But I'm less unhappy with how Air Gear has been treated than how I feel about Tenjou Tenge. The censorship is at a much reduced level. Like you, I'm not really upset if a nipple or two goes AWOL. Having said that, once you find one single edit, the integrity of the work is called into question.

But I may not be the best person to ask, actually /images/graemlins/happy.gif I've always tried to be reasonable with the issue, whether it was when the TenTen issue first arose, or when I reviewed Air Gear. I'm not happy with the censorship on either work, but I'm not *angry* about it either. They're just comic books - I'll live. My "championing" of Oh! great's works is in part by accident (I needed a name when de-lurking on the internet, and I happened to be reading TenTen at the time /images/graemlins/happy.gif ) Also, I have the original Japanese versions both Tenjou Tenge and Air Gear. People who have access to only the English releases may be more upset than I am.

musouka

08-28-2006, 01:35 AM

I'm not upset either, but I do get more annoyed at dialogue edits than I do at art edits. For one, dialogue is harder to identify since there is such a thing as creative license when it comes to translations. I can and do allow a lot of leeway--more than many--but when someone comes out and admits the translation isn't faithful on purpose, it raises my hackles a little.

I'm not saying we should start a boycott of Del Rey or anything like that, but it's sad to see yet another company go on my list of "they might edit this title, and am I okay with that or should I just buy the Japanese?"

akcoll99

08-28-2006, 11:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Randycat said:
If they reprint Air Gear vol.1 with corrected dialogue, do you think it would be possible to return the edited version/exchange it with them? I doubt the bookstores will let me by that time. Has something like this ever been done before? (where the company let you exchange edited for non-edited versions)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. The expense would be too great for what is essentially a 'minor' thing in the overall package of the book. I don't remember any kind of trade in offer being made for the corrected Negima volumes...

Red1212

08-28-2006, 11:39 AM

Uh...Excuse me, but why are we going off-topic, and talking about CMX and Tenjho Tenge? Isn't there a thread about the editing of TT vol 8, which Natsume Maya? This thread is for Air Gear, and not for TenTen.

musouka

08-28-2006, 12:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Red1212 said:
Uh...Excuse me, but why are we going off-topic, and talking about CMX and Tenjho Tenge? Isn't there a thread about the editing of TT vol 8, which Natsume Maya? This thread is for Air Gear, and not for TenTen.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason TenTen is being brought up is because Del Rey themselves used it as a comparison for their own edits. Most of the discussion thus far has focused on what Del Rey is doing to Air Gear.

Natsume_Maya

08-29-2006, 02:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
I can and do allow a lot of leeway--more than many--but when someone comes out and admits the translation isn't faithful on purpose, it raises my hackles a little.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I'd rather that they did come out and admit to it and, preferably, also explain why it was done. Not commenting on the censorship (as CMX did - yes, another reference to CMX, but they're a good example) seems to me like trying to pretend they didn't censor it, and also suggests that they are unconcerned with what fans think.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying we should start a boycott of Del Rey or anything like that, but it's sad to see yet another company go on my list of "they might edit this title, and am I okay with that or should I just buy the Japanese?"

[/ QUOTE ]

If there's anything I really want, I get the Japanese version (and later the English version if I want to support it). It's the only way to be sure /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]
akcoll99 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Randycat said:
If they reprint Air Gear vol.1 with corrected dialogue, do you think it would be possible to return the edited version/exchange it with them? I doubt the bookstores will let me by that time. Has something like this ever been done before? (where the company let you exchange edited for non-edited versions)?

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt it. The expense would be too great for what is essentially a 'minor' thing in the overall package of the book. I don't remember any kind of trade in offer being made for the corrected Negima volumes...

[/ QUOTE ]

I can see Del Rey correcting translation errors in future editions, but not undoing censorship. The first is unintentional and a blot on the professionalism of the release. Negima involved an unintentional error. Censorship is intentional.

BTW, I prefer the word "censorship" though I note companies prefer to talk of "adaptation", "editing" or "alteration". Their avoidance of the word "censorship" is itself a bit of spin.

Red1212

08-29-2006, 12:52 PM

If the intentional edit was just toning of the dialogue down, I don't think it should be a problem for Del Rey to undo it. If I remember correctly, someone here on this forum mentioned how the first volume of "Sword of the Dark Ones" had the full-frontal nudity censored by CMX. But in the second print, that covering up of Leroy's schlong was removed, and that part was restored. If CMX was able to do it (just for Sword of the Dark Ones anyway), I don't see why Del Rey wouldn't. Besides, the title is sold shrinkwrapped and its rated OT. So why would DR remove a reference to rape? There are many other manga series published here in U.S, with content similar to Air Gear (if not worse), such as GetBackers and InuYasha. Both of them are also rated OT, and both of them have references to rape and sex on several occasions. Hell, even several teen-oriented books, such as "Speak", contain references to rape as well. So why not the English version of Air Gear? People, we need to keep on letting Del Rey know about our stance on this whole issue. You can contact them at either webmaster@randomhousecom, or delreymanga@randomhouse.com, or you can contact Del Rey Manha representative Tricia Narwani at tnarwani@randomhouse.com
For the last three weeks now, I've already sent them several complaints to them regarding this whole dialogue editing, loose translations/excessive "Americanization" of the dialogue, and of course the editing of the cover art of the second volume. And by the way, if anyone here knows Dallas Middaugh's work or business e-mail, please post it.
Because it seems like letting DR know directly what we feel is much better than bickering about it in the forums. When contacting them, please remember the basics. Be polite, straightforward and curt. You can also send them your complaints via snail-mail at:

Del Rey Manga
Random House, Inc.,
1745 Broadway
New York, NY
10019.

Again, telling Del Rey directly on what things about the manga that they publish you have (or having) a problem(s) with is going to be more effective, than rambling about it on the forums and doing nothing. With enough letters from the fans, chances are Del Rey will turn their heads around and rethink their plans to continue to edit Air Gear.

Randycat

08-29-2006, 02:32 PM

Sounds like a good plan...Anyone know when the next volume is due? Maybe if they get enough complaints by then they won't edit it..(I already ordered it, sadly, and now I'm getting worried..)

dallasm

08-29-2006, 03:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Red1212 said:
Again, telling Del Rey directly on what things about the manga that they publish you have (or having) a problem(s) with is going to be more effective, than rambling about it on the forums and doing nothing. With enough letters from the fans, chances are Del Rey will turn their heads around and rethink their plans to continue to edit Air Gear.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, true. But we pay attention to forums here as well. I understand the concerns being voiced here. Gimme a couple of weeks to sort it out; most folks in the New York office are on vacation this week.

I would prefer that you not email Tricia or I directly on this matter, but please feel free to send your concerns to delreymanga@randomhouse.com. We read all the emails we receive.

Dallas

flchick

08-29-2006, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dallas Middaugh said:
[ QUOTE ]
Red1212 said:
Again, telling Del Rey directly on what things about the manga that they publish you have (or having) a problem(s) with is going to be more effective, than rambling about it on the forums and doing nothing. With enough letters from the fans, chances are Del Rey will turn their heads around and rethink their plans to continue to edit Air Gear.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, true. But we pay attention to forums here as well. I understand the concerns being voiced here. Gimme a couple of weeks to sort it out; most folks in the New York office are on vacation this week.

I would prefer that you not email Tricia or I directly on this matter, but please feel free to send your concerns to delreymanga@randomhouse.com. We read all the emails we receive.Dallas

[/ QUOTE ]

When your comments on the censorship of Air Gear gets published in PW and you are the most vocal person for the manga division you have to expect people will email you.

Need a couple of weeks to sort it out- don't bother b/c I already returned the book and told the manger why.

Noodle

08-29-2006, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
flchick said:
Need a couple of weeks to sort it out- don't bother b/c I already returned the book and told the manger why.

[/ QUOTE ]

flchick: You've returned the book and that is your prerogative, however, there are plenty of people here who would be most interested in finding out if some "sorting out" can be done and would look forward to the possibility of a change. So please Dallas, DO bother, and thanks for your attention.

GodaiStudios

08-29-2006, 05:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Noodle said:
[ QUOTE ]
flchick said:
Need a couple of weeks to sort it out- don't bother b/c I already returned the book and told the manger why.

[/ QUOTE ]

flchick: You've returned the book and that is your prerogative, however, there are plenty of people here who would be most interested in finding out if some "sorting out" can be done and would look forward to the possibility of a change. So please Dallas, DO bother, and thanks for your attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed - I'm not looking to pick up any more until this is sorted out - and if it is, I'm happy to keep buying it if so. At the very least I appreciate that you were willing to come in and isten to what we have to say.

chloes_fork

08-29-2006, 05:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
GodaiStudios said:
[ QUOTE ]
Noodle said:
flchick: You've returned the book and that is your prerogative, however, there are plenty of people here who would be most interested in finding out if some "sorting out" can be done and would look forward to the possibility of a change. So please Dallas, DO bother, and thanks for your attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed - I'm not looking to pick up any more until this is sorted out - and if it is, I'm happy to keep buying it if so. At the very least I appreciate that you were willing to come in and isten to what we have to say.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thirding this. And Mr. Middaugh, if you haven't read it already, you might also take a look at this (http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=2&Board=mangaedit&Number=1414177& page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all) long topic about Tokyopop's editing of Tsukuyomi Moon Phase; it thread-drifts into some discussion (both positive and negative) of Del Rey in general and Air Gear in particular.

flchick

08-29-2006, 07:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Noodle said:
[ QUOTE ]
flchick said:
Need a couple of weeks to sort it out- don't bother b/c I already returned the book and told the manger why.

[/ QUOTE ]

flchick: You've returned the book and that is your prerogative, however, there are plenty of people here who would be most interested in finding out if some "sorting out" can be done and would look forward to the possibility of a change. So please Dallas, DO bother, and thanks for your attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

My main point was not really "not to bother" BUT that Del Rey needs a couple of weeks to figure it out. WTF- DEl Rey at all their panels , including one people can listen to over at MangaCast from ComiCon said they were not going to censor Air Gear. Now fans of Air gear get this crap in their face.

If Del Rey does redo the translation and makes a statement to the fans in regards to this issue- great and then maybe I will pick up the book again.

Red1212

08-29-2006, 08:15 PM

Excuse me, but why are we all being so rude and uptight towards Mr. Middaugh's comments? I understand if you're unhappy about this situation with Air Gear. So am I. But why go all the way to tell that you can care less now, on how Del Rey is gonna handle this matter, and that you've returned you copy of the book. Or telling him to take a look at the thread about a title, which's not related to Air Gear.
This is not how we should be handling things. Making pessimistic or negative comments towards Del Rey Manga ISN'T going to help. Hell, if anything, it'll only make achieving our goal even more difficult. What Noodle the forum moderator said was right. If you're a fan of Air Gear, your main goal right now would be to get this title uncensored and unchanged in any way, shape or form whatsoever.
I'm thankful that Mr.Middaugh went ahead to address his concerns about Air Gear on this message board. Hopefully, Del Rey will be able to resolve this issue soon. As of right now, all we can/should do is to ask Del Rey to make the volume 2 with an uncensored cover art available, and to have all the future reprints of volume 1 free of this ridiculous toning down of the dialogue, along with fixing those rudimentary translation/adaptation errors (check out Natsuya Maya's review of Air Gear vol 1 to see what they are) which appeared in the first volume.

Natsume_Maya

08-29-2006, 08:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Red1212 said:
If the intentional edit was just toning of the dialogue down, I don't think it should be a problem for Del Rey to undo it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would've replied to your post, but events have been superceded by Dallas' reply.

I didn't share your faith that Del Rey would re-consider the matter, but I'm happy to be wrong /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Dallas Middaugh said:
True, true. But we pay attention to forums here as well. I understand the concerns being voiced here. Gimme a couple of weeks to sort it out; most folks in the New York office are on vacation this week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for posting to the thread. It's always good to know that the companies are reading the boards, and that they take into account the views of fans.

I would say, however, that it's disappointing that volume 1 was censored in the first place. I appreciate that you'll be going in to bat for the fans, but if it's possible to undo the changes, I wish this had been done at the start. Otherwise there'll be an impression that Del Rey will censor if they think they can get away with it (and if no fan outcry materialises).

I assume it's done, but please review all of the 14 (soon to be 15) volumes published to date in Japan, to ensure that a policy can be set now, so that issues don't arise in later volumes (if that makes any sense).

Personally I can understand the reasoning behind changing the cover of volume 2, since even if you shrinkwrap a book, the cover is still visible. However, the change to dialogue in volume 1 is less justifiable.

Anyway, if volume 1 is re-printed, I can confirm that I'll buy it a second time /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Finally, if you'll be raising the Air Gear issue, please also discuss the rest of Project G in Genshiken. Any chance those pages can be included at the back of volume 7 or 8? /images/graemlins/happy.gif (Not a big deal for me, since it's a bonus item anyway).

masterpez

08-29-2006, 09:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
Personally I can understand the reasoning behind changing the cover of volume 2, since even if you shrinkwrap a book, the cover is still visible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking, since the book is shrinkwrapped, they could put a sticker on the cover to hide her butt and be done with it. I assume there's some kind of reason why they didn't go with that, however. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has thought of something like that.

DrMM

08-29-2006, 09:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
pez said:
I was thinking, since the book is shrinkwrapped, they could put a sticker on the cover to hide her butt and be done with it. I assume there's some kind of reason why they didn't go with that, however. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has thought of something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't it be hard to get a machine to shrinkwrap and place a sticker on the exact right spot needed to cover the butt every time? Not to mention, the shrinkwrapped books I've seen in stores don't seem to stay shrinkwrapped for long.

chloes_fork

08-29-2006, 10:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Red1212 said:
Excuse me, but why are we all being so rude and uptight towards Mr. Middaugh's comments? <snip> Or telling him to take a look at the thread about a title, which's not related to Air Gear.

[/ QUOTE ]
Uptight, heal thyself. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif I suggested he take a look at that thread because it contains several relevant posts about his company and his publication, which might not come to his attention otherwise since the main thread topic concerns a Tokyopop title. There's not a scintilla of rudeness in that.

pete5883

08-30-2006, 06:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
DrMM said:
Wouldn't it be hard to get a machine to shrinkwrap and place a sticker on the exact right spot needed to cover the butt every time?

[/ QUOTE ] Dark Horse is doing it with Berserk Volume 13 (http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/SzH7HHfz0B328lJs9a/browse/item/70079/4/0/0)

akcoll99

08-30-2006, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
pete5883 said:
[ QUOTE ]
DrMM said:
Wouldn't it be hard to get a machine to shrinkwrap and place a sticker on the exact right spot needed to cover the butt every time?

[/ QUOTE ] Dark Horse is doing it with Berserk Volume 13 (http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/SzH7HHfz0B328lJs9a/browse/item/70079/4/0/0)

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention hentai anime titles from companies like NuTech and Japan Anime that feature that curious little black & yellow sticker over any offending bits on the covers. So, yes, it is possible to make sure a sticker is placed in a particular spot on the cover or shrinkwrapping.

Dicrel Seijin

08-30-2006, 04:45 PM

Is exact placement going to cost more than random placement of the sticker? That would have to be a consideration.

/images/graemlins/relief1.gif

This is a bit of a disappointment. I don't want to bring it up again, but I really did hope that this title by Oh, Great! would be treated right by Del Rey. Well, like some others, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

(Too bad I had Air Gear vol. 2 on order for months now, too late to back out now.)

jlazar

08-30-2006, 05:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Kousaka Makoto said:
(Too bad I had Air Gear vol. 2 on order for months now, too late to back out now.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you have it ordered that they won't cancel it for you?

KomoriKiri

08-30-2006, 05:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Kousaka Makoto said:
Is exact placement going to cost more than random placement of the sticker? That would have to be a consideration.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not like they're being put on by hand. Machines are good at precise repetitive tasks.

Wraith
We have only two things to worry about - either that things will never get back to normal, or that they already have

dallasm

08-30-2006, 05:42 PM

I've long said that at Del Rey Manga, if we have to edit it we won't publish it. So what do I do for the first volume of Air Gear, the work of an artist whose work has been censored in the past? I edit the dialogue to tone down sexual references. Dumb.

I could explain how I reached that decision, but that isn't really relevant. The decision was mine, it was wrong, and we're fixing it. The next printing of Air Gear 1 will have the appropriate dialogue that refers to the rape on pages 58, 95, and 99. I am working to determine when that printing will be in stores - give me a week or so to sort that out, and I'll post here again. For financial reasons, I cannot offer you the opportunity to trade your book in for a new printing.

You're all aware of the change to the cover of Air Gear 2 (changing her thong and chaps to pants). That change will remain in place. The unedited image will appear on the title page in black and white.

Thanks for your input. Air Gear is a great manga, and we're proud to be publishing it.

Dallas

christianlf

08-30-2006, 05:51 PM

Dallas, thanks for taking the criticism to heart. It is regrettable that this occurred in the first place, but it's refreshing to see a company not only admit that they were wrong, but to take steps to make it right. For that, you should be commended. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

akcoll99

08-30-2006, 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dallas Middaugh said:
I've long said that at Del Rey Manga, if we have to edit it we won't publish it. So what do I do for the first volume of Air Gear, the work of an artist whose work has been censored in the past? I edit the dialogue to tone down sexual references. Dumb.

I could explain how I reached that decision, but that isn't really relevant. The decision was mine, it was wrong, and we're fixing it. The next printing of Air Gear 1 will have the appropriate dialogue that refers to the rape on pages 58, 95, and 99. I am working to determine when that printing will be in stores - give me a week or so to sort that out, and I'll post here again. For financial reasons, I cannot offer you the opportunity to trade your book in for a new printing.

You're all aware of the change to the cover of Air Gear 2 (changing her thong and chaps to pants). That change will remain in place. The unedited image will appear on the title page in black and white.

Thanks for your input. Air Gear is a great manga, and we're proud to be publishing it.

Dallas

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow! I wasn't expecting that. This is exactly why you guys are my favorite manga company right now. YOU. ACTUALLY. LISTEN. And thank you so much for doing so. I will actually double dip on buying AG Volume 1 when you guys get the new printing out. Will there be some way to denote that it's different than the original printing?

Thank you for also confirming that the 'unedited' cover for volume 2 will indeed have a place in the volume's interior. The cover was no big deal for me, but I think this is a nice way of making all sides happy and comfortable.

Red1212

08-30-2006, 06:04 PM

Thank you very much Mr. Middaugh. This is a very exciting news for me and all the other fans of Air Gear to hear. I'm glad that this dialogue hiccup is going to be fixed. This is another proof that Del Rey is a company to be trusted with. Again, thanks.

Skywise

08-30-2006, 06:08 PM

Thanks a lot Dallas. You bring a lot of hope that English translated manga isn't dead just yet /images/graemlins/happy.gif. Could you also look over the linked translation thread and go over some of the questionable translations as well while you're at it?

http://forums.animeondvd.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1396979

jlazar

08-30-2006, 06:09 PM

Thank you Dallas.

Although I am not a huge fan of Oh Great (ironic, since I'm such a horn-dog), I'll pick up at least volume 1 (second printing) just to show support for this very good decision on your part. I fi like it, I'll continue. It might even nudge me into getting Suzuka, since I'm still on the fence.

As for the cover of vol 2, it's good that the original is inside, although color would have been nice. Next time concider a sticker or color inner page. Thanks.

BTW, I hope you can put some sort of identifying mark on the outside of the reprinted vol 1 so we can find it. Since it's shrink wrapped, we can't look at the credits page to find the printing number.

Thanks again.

Congratulations on being the first company to get a title moved to the 'fixed' part of the editing list. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Randycat

08-30-2006, 06:38 PM

Yay thanx for fixing it!! Just a few questions though:
1. I'm assuming vol.2 will not have dialogue edits? I've already ordered it a while ago..
2. Is it possible to put the pages with the new translations on your website or something, for people who already bought the edited version of vol.1?
3. Sort of off topic, but will the series continue to have color pages?
Thanks!!

chloes_fork

08-30-2006, 06:47 PM

Mr. Middaugh, I don't even know where to begin expressing my respect and appreciation for this decision. If only certain other publishers would follow your company's fine example.

Jadawin

08-30-2006, 08:23 PM

Impressive.

Texhnolyze

08-30-2006, 08:26 PM

*Applause for Dallas and Del-Ray*

Your company's attitude is so refreshing.

golthin

08-30-2006, 08:41 PM

Well, I guess I have now to double dip on air gear as I already have the Japanese editions. It is a good thing to support companies like Del Rey.

Natsume_Maya

08-30-2006, 08:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dallas Middaugh said:
The decision was mine, it was wrong, and we're fixing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm impressed. I try to avoid "me too" posts, but in these sorts of circumstances I think it's important that fans show their appreciation when a company does the right thing.

I would say that I'm disappointed that the changes were made in the first place, and surprised that you were the one who made the decision. But you were good enough to firstly own up to it being your own decision (instead of trying to pass the buck) and secondly admit the error and correct it.

As others have mentioned, hopefully there'll be a way to distinguish the second print, so that I can buy my second copy.

[ QUOTE ]
The next printing of Air Gear 1 will have the appropriate dialogue that refers to the rape on pages 58, 95, and 99.

[/ QUOTE ]

For anyone who's wondering, IIRC the dialogue on pages 58 and 99 was sexually suggestive in the Japanese edition, and remained sexually suggestive in the English edition, but was apparently intentionally toned down. (I didn't raise it in my review as I gave the translation the benefit of the doubt on the basis that the translation in general is a bit loose.) I'll try to post a comparison at the end of the day.

Natsume_Maya

08-30-2006, 09:10 PM

One other issue, Dallas: I understand Random House will be publishing Air Gear in Australia this year. I expect the Australian division is completely separate, but I hope you'll drop them a note to advise of the change to volume 1. Hopefully we'll get the uncensored version in Australia /images/graemlins/happy.gif

GodaiStudios

08-30-2006, 10:26 PM

Thanks for replying so quickly. It means a great deal to the fans that you are willing to fix the problem. As I stated elsewhere, addressing and fixing the issue makes Del Rey stand heads and shoulders above the rest.

You sir, are a class act.

I hope others will learn from your example. Thank you.

kawaii_chibiko

08-31-2006, 12:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Dallas Middaugh said:
The decision was mine, it was wrong, and we're fixing it. The next printing of Air Gear 1 will have the appropriate dialogue...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is going to be the first time EVER I'll double dip a manga and yet it's the perfect release to double dip I think. Its decisions like these are the reason about half of my English collection is Del Rey.

Keep up the great work and thank you for listening! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

musouka

08-31-2006, 01:00 AM

I'm really happy to see this, and I wanted to say that I understand where you're coming from. While I don't translate commercially, when I read certain series and wonder "what if I was translating this", sometimes there's an impulse to think "I would tone this down because it really rubs me the wrong way". Granted, it's not something I really have to worry about, I just understand that feeling that when you don't want people to get the "wrong impression" of a series.

RaeS

08-31-2006, 01:25 AM

Wow. I'm really speechless. I shouldn't be though becasue Del Rey has been so receptive since starting publishing manga. THANK YOU MR. MIDDAUGH doesn't quite do it.

Once the second printing hits stores I'm not going to have any reason to put off buying Air Gear anymore.

Finally some good news around here.

Rhodes

08-31-2006, 03:18 AM

Thank you =)

However while doing this for the 2nd print... can you also look into the differences in translation that Maya pointed out. Especially in the end of the book with the old man leading Ikki.

When I read it, it confused the heck out of me. Its not even remotely matching the anime either. I was going who the heck is the master?

I have the 1st print but will pick up the 2nd print run as well, just hope some of the translation errors/bumps gets cleaned up as well.

Rolancehack

08-31-2006, 06:18 AM

Mind giving us a heads up when that second release comes out (especially if you fix that "master" stuff in the back.)

masterpez

08-31-2006, 08:00 AM

I tried to get into Air Gear in the past, being a fan of Oh Great, but the story just didn't do anything for me. Now I'm going to at the very least buy volume 1 during it's second print to show support. It'll be nice to look at the pictures....and if I ever decide to read it, it won't be toned down. Thank you and your company for listening to the fans.

Libertus

08-31-2006, 09:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Dallas Middaugh said:
Thanks for your input. Air Gear is a great manga, and we're proud to be publishing it.

Dallas

[/ QUOTE ]

And I'l be proud to buy the unedited version.

I *did* buy version one, but (thankfully) it was still shrinkwrapped on my sizeable 'to read' list when I found out about the edit. I then returned it, although not without hesitation since I had been looking forward to this series.

I'm overjoyed to hear the edit will be fixed, and will obviously be buying the fixed version. But how will I know? Any chance of including some tiny note on the back cover so we can know without busting into the shrinkwrap?

robert

Natsume_Maya

08-31-2006, 04:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dallas Middaugh said:
The next printing of Air Gear 1 will have the appropriate dialogue that refers to the rape on pages 58, 95, and 99.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's a comparison of the current Del Rey translation on pages 58 and 99.

Page 58 panel 3
Japanese edition:
Skull Sader 1: If you want to know about the Cobra Twist, I'll teach you. With my king cobra!!
Girl: Ah! Yaa!
Skull Sader 2: Hurry up mate, there'll be a line here later.
Girl: Noooo!
Ikki: Cha-...!!

Del Rey edition:
Skull Sader 1: So you like wrestlers, huh?... How's about we check out a few of *my* moves??!
Girl: Get out of here!
Skull Sader 2: Hey, man, make out with her later, dude! We've got to-
Girl: Leave us alone!!
Ikki: Wait a-!!

The first line has been toned down slightly IMO. But note Del Rey's translation at page 14 panel 4, where Ikki says: "Hey, Chako, I'll meet up with you for some Cobra Twist practice any time - that is... if you use my cobra! Heh heh..." If this line was censored (as opposed to merely changed for variety), perhaps the concern at page 58 was that it was a non-consensual scene...?

The second Skull Sader's line has been changed, though. In the Japanese, the guy's telling his friend to hurry up with the girl, but in the Del Rey version he's telling his friend to stop (for now).

One minor thing: In the final line, Ikki says in Japanese "cha-". Del Rey translates this as "Wait a-". "Chotto matte" in Japanese means "wait a minute". But I think in this case, Ikki may have been calling out to "Chako"...? (There's a pic of Chako holding the Inoki omnibus in panel 1 of that page.)

Page 99
I didn't really see any real change here. I'll set out dialogue from page 99 panel 4 to page 100 panel 2 for people to make up their own minds.

Japanese edition:
Skull Sader 1: 0oh <3 ... right, you pass!! Well, Maga-san's nose is as good as always /images/graemlins/happy.gif (Where'd you find such juicy girls?)
Skull Sader 2: Thanks to him, we have our fill every day!!
Magaki: Is that so? You guys have such simple tastes.... Don't worry, kitten, I'm different.
Magaki: I'll suck... and suck... and suck... and suck, long and hard.
Magaki: This whole school... I'll suck it dry 'til it's just a skull.

Del Rey edition:
Skull Sader 1: Oooh! <3 ...All right, baby girl, you definitely pass inspection! Mmm, mm good! Magaki-san's taste in ladies is unmatched! /images/graemlins/happy.gif (...knows where to find the yummiest girlies.)
Skull Sader 2: Thanks to him, every day we get all-we-can-eat!!
Magaki: Hmph, you think this is good? You guys have no ambition. But, don't worry, my little kitten - I'm not like the rest of them.
Magaki: I'm going to lick... and lick... and suck... and bite...
Magaki: Everything I can see... all the way to the bone...

If Del Rey's going to change those three pages, I'd also ask that it consider the dialogue set out below as well. Japanese language can be contextual, so it's sometimes hard to be certain exactly what the meaning of a line is, but my interpretation differed from the Del Rey edition in a couple of places (that I can recall). I'm not saying I'm right and that the Del Rey translation is wrong, but simply that I read the text differently, (which is why I didn't raise it earlier). But if Del Rey will be doing a second print, it'd be great if the company could review those lines. Nothing turns on those lines, so it's no big deal. I'm probably just being nitpicky...

Page 14 panel 3
My interpretation:
Girl 1: You know, Chako's got something to tell you in private <3
Chako: Kya- geez, what're you saying...?
Girl 2: Hey, come on, tell him yourself, Chako.
Chako: No, everyone's looking.

Del Rey edition:
Chako: Hee hee, actually I can think of something better for you and me to do...
Girl 1: Hey, now, Chako!
Girl 2: Yeah, don't try to drag him somewhere alone!
Chako: Come on... all I said was, "Let's go do something..."

(Ikki then proceeds to talk to Chako about the Cobra Twist and his cobra.)

Page 75 panel 3
This page has narration about the crazy fans who gave rise to Air Treck. Panel 3 reads (IMO):
"They realised... long ago..."
IMO the "they" in that instance is the crazy fans. Then follows a two page spread of just artwork. The pages after that continue on to talk about those fans. In the Del Rey translation, the line reads:
"And these girls knew about it... all along..."
At the same time, Ikki is finding out for the first time that the Noyamano sisters use Air Treck, which is why I guess Del Rey translates "they" as "these girls". This line appears in a panel of its own, however the dialogue immediately before and after this line (albeit on different panels) refers to the crazy fans. On the other hand, the artwork on panel 3 shows an ongoing rush of air (as if someone is flying through the air), and the two page art spread on the following pages is of Ikki looking at the Noyamano girls on their Air Trecks. So it's arguable that we're cutting back to the scene of Ikki looking at the girls and thinking about them.

ic14

08-31-2006, 04:18 PM

Will the UK printing of vol 1 (due October i believe) have the untoned down dialogue?

Dicrel Seijin

08-31-2006, 05:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Jim Lazar said:
[ QUOTE ]
Kousaka Makoto said:
(Too bad I had Air Gear vol. 2 on order for months now, too late to back out now.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you have it ordered that they won't cancel it for you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, well it's not important now in light of the news.

Wow, what a fast response. Some of my faith in Del Rey and Dallas has been restored.

HitokiriShadow

09-02-2006, 11:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dallas Middaugh said:
I've long said that at Del Rey Manga, if we have to edit it we won't publish it. So what do I do for the first volume of Air Gear, the work of an artist whose work has been censored in the past? I edit the dialogue to tone down sexual references. Dumb.

I could explain how I reached that decision, but that isn't really relevant. The decision was mine, it was wrong, and we're fixing it. The next printing of Air Gear 1 will have the appropriate dialogue that refers to the rape on pages 58, 95, and 99. I am working to determine when that printing will be in stores - give me a week or so to sort that out, and I'll post here again. For financial reasons, I cannot offer you the opportunity to trade your book in for a new printing.

You're all aware of the change to the cover of Air Gear 2 (changing her thong and chaps to pants). That change will remain in place. The unedited image will appear on the title page in black and white.

Thanks for your input. Air Gear is a great manga, and we're proud to be publishing it.

Dallas

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why Del Rey is currently my favorite manga publisher. Thank you for listening to the fans.

09-03-2006, 03:27 PM

Good Show, Dallas. Air Gear is (thankfully) back on my buy list.

barbapapa

09-04-2006, 08:57 AM

Now if only Del Rey was Viz as well. Then all would be well with the world.

something

09-04-2006, 12:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dallas Middaugh said:
The decision was mine, it was wrong, and we're fixing it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I feel like that's the first time an R1 company (anime term, yes, but counting manga too) has said something like that, so close to the event at least. Wow.

Chuplayer

09-04-2006, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dallas Middaugh said:
I've long said that at Del Rey Manga, if we have to edit it we won't publish it. So what do I do for the first volume of Air Gear, the work of an artist whose work has been censored in the past? I edit the dialogue to tone down sexual references. Dumb.

I could explain how I reached that decision, but that isn't really relevant. The decision was mine, it was wrong, and we're fixing it. The next printing of Air Gear 1 will have the appropriate dialogue that refers to the rape on pages 58, 95, and 99. I am working to determine when that printing will be in stores - give me a week or so to sort that out, and I'll post here again. For financial reasons, I cannot offer you the opportunity to trade your book in for a new printing.

You're all aware of the change to the cover of Air Gear 2 (changing her thong and chaps to pants). That change will remain in place. The unedited image will appear on the title page in black and white.

Thanks for your input. Air Gear is a great manga, and we're proud to be publishing it.

Dallas

[/ QUOTE ]

I currently do not read Air Gear, but as a Del Rey Manga fan, I've got to say that you guys are the best manga publishers in America. A trade in deal would've been nice, but owning up to the issue like this is almost as good. It's a hell of a lot better than just about any other company, that's for sure.

Thanks so much for being so awesome, and I might give Air Gear a shot after the revised version comes out just because of this.

Natsume_Maya

09-04-2006, 03:22 PM

I do hope that the instances of toning down language are also attended to, though. There was mention of restoring the references to rape, but no reference to the other changes.

09-04-2006, 09:15 PM

I think about this and how it mirrors (as in the same situation, but the otherway around) the Initial D release. "Oops, we put out the volume correctly. Our bad! Next printing and subsequent versions will have the language toned down and names simplified for a new American audience!" It makes me laugh.

<3 Del Rey.

WarPig

09-05-2006, 01:56 PM

When I was reading the proofs Del Rey sent out to reviewers (a long time after originally reading the Japanese version, so I didn't remember most of the first volume's events in detail), I was struck by how harsh a note the whole rape theme rang in comparison to the rest of the series that follows. After the first volume or so, the introductory storyline with the Skull Saders, the strip's tone generally lightens up to a point that in retrospect, those bits of the early chapters feel pretty out of place. In fact that's one of the reasons I like Air Gear so much, 'cos it doesn't go all blood-guts-'n'-misery like Tenjho Tenge.

Anyway, it's funny, because it occurred to me that the series would have hung together much better if that aspect of the first storyline hadn't been there. And now everyone's making a big deal about how it oughta be preserved. Irony.

What's also funny is that I picked up on the implication of rape despite Del Rey's evident changes to the dialogue. So I guess the edit job failed. Is that a good thing? I dunno ^_^

DFS.

Kenneth_Lee

09-06-2006, 12:37 AM

/applause /images/graemlins/happy.gif

I applaud you Dallas, for your earnest and quick response to the Editing situation. One follow-up, though:

* Any chance of offering (at least for future volumes), an UNedited Cover for Air Gear volumes (and any other potential "racy" covers)?

Some options brought up by others already:

1. Offer up the UNedited Cover via Mail-In / Website Offer.

2. Shrink-wrap / use a Sticker (which can advertise anything (i.e., it doesn't have to say "WARNING" or anything /images/graemlins/wink.gif) to conveniently cover up any potential racy bits (which can be removed later)? That way, you won't offend anyone w/ that.

3. Offer up 2 Editions: 1 Cover to Stores, 1 for Online (UNedited Cover).

4. Heck, maybe even a "Limited Edition" Cover (i.e., UNedited) which is done via Pre-Order only (so you can get solid #'s before Printing)?

Just some ideas, but it's really unfortunate that any Editing has to happen (especially Oh Great's beautiful art).

ragnar

09-06-2006, 09:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Kenneth Lee said:
/applause /images/graemlins/happy.gif

I applaud you Dallas, for your earnest and quick response to the Editing situation. One follow-up, though:

* Any chance of offering (at least for future volumes), an UNedited Cover for Air Gear volumes (and any other potential "racy" covers)?

Some options brought up by others already:

1. Offer up the UNedited Cover via Mail-In / Website Offer.

2. Shrink-wrap / use a Sticker (which can advertise anything (i.e., it doesn't have to say "WARNING" or anything /images/graemlins/wink.gif) to conveniently cover up any potential racy bits (which can be removed later)? That way, you won't offend anyone w/ that.

3. Offer up 2 Editions: 1 Cover to Stores, 1 for Online (UNedited Cover).

4. Heck, maybe even a "Limited Edition" Cover (i.e., UNedited) which is done via Pre-Order only (so you can get solid #'s before Printing)?

Just some ideas, but it's really unfortunate that any Editing has to happen (especially Oh Great's beautiful art).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why does everyone always ask for two separate covers? Don't people who are NOT asociated with books, whether as publisher, distributor, or bookstore sales person, understand that there is MORE cost added to multiple covers? Granted, you might be able to recover some of your costs by listing a second or even third cover as a web exclusive, but would it cover ALL the costs?

More cost as in, what was once one large print run now becomes two print runs, each with their associcated costs. If you want a separate cover, why not ask for them to do as Broccoli has done with some of thir titles- print a dust jacket and do a mail in/website exclusive.

WarPig

09-06-2006, 01:02 PM

See, if it were Ringo in the assless chaps, I could get worked up about the cover thing. Simca...don't care.

(But they better leave volume 6 alone.)

DFS.

Dicrel Seijin

09-06-2006, 06:23 PM

Okay, I'll bite.

What's, or rather who's on cover 6, and in what, and I use the term loosely /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif, state of dress?)

(As an aside, I am reminded on what a demon said about Asuna and her state of dishabille: "Wouldn't mind that on a cracker. Yummy yum-yum." /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif)

Rolancehack

09-06-2006, 09:21 PM

Why even edit the cover? I've seen much more Risque stuff on many other books.

Bleach 9 shows much more skin then Air Gear 2.
Gacha Gacha (from you guys) regularly has girls in less then Simca on the covers.
The Entire Love Hina Run from Tokyopop was one string of questionable covers.

MrDisco

09-06-2006, 10:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dallas Middaugh said:
You're all aware of the change to the cover of Air Gear 2 (changing her thong and chaps to pants). That change will remain in place. The unedited image will appear on the title page in black and white.

[/ QUOTE ]

well i suppose a 1/2 win is better then nothing. still the decision to edit the cover to vol.2 doesn't make much sense to me given your opening statement. :| i don't see much point in supporting this title if it will be subject to such half-measures.

Kenneth_Lee

09-06-2006, 10:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ragnar said:
Why does everyone always ask for two separate covers? Don't people who are NOT asociated with books, whether as publisher, distributor, or bookstore sales person, understand that there is MORE cost added to multiple covers? Granted, you might be able to recover some of your costs by listing a second or even third cover as a web exclusive, but would it cover ALL the costs?

More cost as in, what was once one large print run now becomes two print runs, each with their associcated costs. If you want a separate cover, why not ask for them to do as Broccoli has done with some of thir titles- print a dust jacket and do a mail in/website exclusive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh Randy, chill dude.

I think I know a thing or two about costs w/ multiple cover runs /images/graemlins/wink.gif. But, yah, as some others pointed out:

* The Best Solution (IMHO) would be to NOT Edit the Cover in the first place.

If you're trying to market a title that's inherently more risque, then maybe the Publisher needs to ask themselves if they have the right property? (Or if they're doing the right thing (i.e., making an "OT / 16" title into a "T / 13+" title, etc.).

Of course, I'd love to have a Dust Cover. I was just asking for *some way* to get the UNedited cover. I haven't been tracking the US Manga scene that much, so what you posted just now is a great suggestion as well (to pay / send in for a Dust Cover Jacket / Special Cover).

MalrocK

02-15-2007, 05:30 PM

Has the fixed volume 1 started making it's rounds to the bookstores yet? Any new news on this? Also, how about fixed copies of Volume 2 that doesn't have faded pages? I would like to get this fixed, pgs 127, 129, 135, 137, 142, 144, 146, 150, 152, 154 all faded....

Buster Blader 126

02-17-2007, 11:02 PM

I also wonder whether or not the 2nd printing of Vol. 1, & guaranteed safe printings of Vol. 2 are out yet. I like Air Gear, but I'm holding off on it for the moment until I hear some confirmation.

pianocello

02-20-2007, 05:36 AM

Quick question - does this manga have any detailed nudity in it?

MalrocK

02-20-2007, 07:33 AM

Quick question - does this manga have any detailed nudity in it?

a bunch of nudity but no nipples

HitokiriShadow

02-20-2007, 12:58 PM

No, at least not in the volumes released in the U.S. I suppose its possible Oh Great! gives in to his desires later and starts showing nipples. But I doubt it and it may have run in a magazine that doesn't allow that.

MalrocK

02-20-2007, 01:07 PM

HitokiriShadow

02-20-2007, 01:10 PM

I suspected as much, but I recall hearing someone once say something about Oh!Great holding back in early volumes and at some point loosing his restraint or something. I wasn't sure if it meant that it just had more innuendo and non-detailed nudity (which is what I suspected it meant) or if it meant it later had actual detailed nudity, so I thought it was worth mentioning and getting clarified.

akcoll99

02-21-2007, 12:25 AM

Quick question - does this manga have any detailed nudity in it?

No detailed nipples (which I know you like ;) ) but it does feature several of women in other states of undress, such as butt shots, panty shots, and nipple-less boobs. The fact that they're drawn by Oh!Great makes them just look :virgin: :virgin: :virgin:

Odd that there ARE no nipples, considering the anime had some. It's usually the other way around... :D

Hakaisha

04-06-2007, 10:34 AM

Hayate Kurogane

04-06-2007, 04:23 PM

pete5883

04-06-2007, 05:39 PM

I will pick this up if I ever find one. Glad Del Rey did the right thing.

The Pirate Queen

04-06-2007, 05:44 PM

Sweet! I'll be picking this up.

Shikamaru824

04-06-2007, 05:57 PM

Does any other volume need to be "Revised"?

If it does, good thing I only bought the first volume...that I now must re-buy :P

Buster Blader 126

04-06-2007, 06:41 PM

It's about time. :)

I'll have to re-buy this one too. I'm still worried about Vol. 2 though, with the risk of buying one with faded pages...

The Pirate Queen

04-06-2007, 08:46 PM

Does any other volume need to be "Revised"?

If it does, good thing I only bought the first volume...that I now must re-buy :P

IIRC, it was just the first volume that had the toned down dialogue. So nothing to worry about on later volumes.

akcoll99

04-08-2007, 05:40 PM

Awesome news. I plan on picking up a new copy of volume 1 then, and packing the old volume 1 away in the box with my faded copy of volume 2...

Gonfreaks

04-08-2007, 07:48 PM

Yes! Finally the revised one, with a nice note that it's the reprinted version.

Dicrel Seijin

04-09-2007, 03:59 PM

I'm just hoping that 'Revised Edition' is in a nice understated font.

covnam

04-10-2007, 12:35 AM

I'm just hoping that 'Revised Edition' is in a nice understated font.

Considering the Del Ray sale at RightStuf right now, I'm just hoping that this is the only Vol. 1 version they have...

Dicrel Seijin

04-10-2007, 03:49 PM

The Pirate Queen

04-10-2007, 04:08 PM

Considering the Del Ray sale at RightStuf right now, I'm just hoping that this is the only Vol. 1 version they have...

Yeah, that's what stopped me from processing my order. How do you make sure it's the second printing? I wonder if you can specify?

Email Shawne and have him check? But the only way to be 100% sure you'll get a corrected copy is to pick it up in a bookstore. I might take my first edition copy to my local store, explain the situation, and see if they'll do an exchange.

Dicrel Seijin

04-10-2007, 08:51 PM

Hmm, I might look into the book exchange option. I might still have the receipt somewhere....

MalrocK

04-11-2007, 02:45 PM

Thanks for the reprint, i'll be sure to pick it up :). I have one request for future volumes though, please refrain from editing the covers, ala volume 2. Especially volume 6 (http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/4063633705.09._SCLZZZZZZZ_V44391980_SS500_.jpg). Thanks again :)

CochraneO

04-12-2007, 03:54 PM

Dicrel Seijin

04-12-2007, 06:26 PM

Considering the Del Ray sale at RightStuf right now, I'm just hoping that this is the only Vol. 1 version they have...

Yeah, that's what stopped me from processing my order. How do you make sure it's the second printing? I wonder if you can specify?

How long does the RightStuf sale last? According to this note (http://www.activeanime.com/html/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4936) over at Active Anime, the revised Air Gear edition won't be in stores until early May.

Oh, bother. :( I could have sworn it was already out.

It's interesting that there will be a recall of the first printings. I always thought SOP was to just sell the printing out.

Eh, I can wait three weeks.

CochraneO

04-12-2007, 06:58 PM

According to this note (http://www.activeanime.com/html/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4936) over at Active Anime, the revised Air Gear edition won't be in stores until early May.

It's interesting that there will be a recall of the first printings. I always thought SOP was to just sell the printing out.

Uh, that seems to be what's happening here. The Active Anime piece says "the original prints have not been recalled and may still be circulating even after May 4."

FigNewton

04-12-2007, 08:36 PM

AbeChinchilla

04-12-2007, 11:19 PM

AbeChinchilla

04-12-2007, 11:20 PM

Rassilon

04-13-2007, 06:15 PM

Del Rey is the best manga company ever.

If they were, they wouldn't have toned down any dialogue in the first place.

At least they listen to the fans of their series, admit when they make a mistake and attempt to correct it, unlike some other companies I could mention. As far as their track record so far, they and Dark Horse are the only two companies that I don't really have any qualms about picking up new titles from.

Hayate Kurogane

04-13-2007, 06:55 PM

GodaiStudios

04-14-2007, 04:31 AM

Del Rey is the best manga company ever.

If they were, they wouldn't have toned down any dialogue in the first place.

"Best manga company ever" is perhaps a bit hyperbolic, but you have to consider the fact that the Air Gear dialogue issue was the only one of its kind from the company, it was limited in scope, the person responsible (Dallas) owned up to it readily, and it's being corrected. Every single one of those points is much more positive than what we've seen by way of various problems in releases from some other companies.

I'd go as far as to say it's much more positive than what we've heard any other manga company do so far... period.

It's not like we've heard the people at Tokyopop offering up a reprint of Tsukuyomi Moon Phase vol 4 yet - there is a reason I stopped buying the series

And Viz? Tell me if they are willing to go and reprint any of the stuff they've censored and correct their mistakes in order to make the fans happy - as it is, it seems they are censoring reprints of Yugioh now (IIRC) Way to go, you sure now how to appeal to your fanbase. :roll:

ADV's slow release schedule and/or dead titles? We don't get much comment from them on that.

Who has done more for manga fans in the last two years than Dallas?

If you are reading this, my hat is off to you sir. You are the only one who taken responsibility and not only apologized for your mistake - but you were willing to take some kind of action to rectify it and now we are seeing it happen.

I hate to say this, but I think Del Rey the only company out there that respects the fans this much. This isn't to say that other companies don't care about the fans, but this is far beyond what we've been conditioned to expect in service.

FigNewton

04-15-2007, 08:33 AM

From Del Rey's Newsletter, April 6th

AIR GEAR â€” REVISED EDITION

Hitting stores soon is the next printing of Air Gear Volume 1, with the authentic text fully restored. To make it them easier to spot for those of you who've been waiting for them, we've marked the revised editions with the text "REVISED EDITION" in the bottom right corner of the back cover.

Del Rey is the best manga company ever.

If they were, they wouldn't have toned down any dialogue in the first place.

For one thing, the statement was obviously intentional hyperbole. However, when you stop to consider how much of the content almost every single other manga publisher changes and then never even acknowledges much less CORRECTS, then you start to see just how fantastic Del Rey's manga division really is. At this point, I doubt we're ever going to see corrected versions of I"s early volumes, Initial D, Tenjou Tenge. Even Dark Horse's record isn't completely clean here, though IIRC the incidents I recall really did result from requests for change made by the respective authors.

When the AirGear "edits" became known, Dallas Middaugh himself showed up here said, "I screwed up, and I'm fixing it. Subsequent printings will have the dialogue restored." Now we get the info. Perhaps a little later than we would have liked but we get it nonetheless, and thank god they're even noting that it's a revised edition *on the cover* so there's no question what you are buying.

Del Rey has been an exemplary company for the US manga market. I get that you are bitter, but for God's sake at least aknowledge their response to the situation and their eagerness to correct the rare mistake.