KOR: Eternal Summer [Discussion Thread 2] [Archive]

Njr Scrawl

08-19-2006, 05:55 AM

The library/pool episode (which seems to be have been re-written & spiced up a bit for the OVA "Hurricane Akane"). But here its more important as apparently Kyosuke still has trouble being torn between his heart & his hormones - with more relevance to the overall story.
This is a story with emphasis on the physical.

Madoka is wondering where she's at emotionally. Luckily Kyosuke
has a high sense of guilt & makes good, not realising how important
his seeking out Madoka might be - or for that matter, ironically,
Hikaru telling him Madoka's original plans so he realises how
considerate she was being.

Hikaru (again) in swimwear & playful mood is very cute. From a guy's POV, tearing away from someone like that - especially someone so devoted & caring, & at the cost of hurting her - makes it very very hard indeed.

Madoka's appeal in this episode is cerebral & solemn - helping Kyosuke with his revision. Hikaru's is flesh, fun & blondness.

Is Madoka aware of the power-of-cleavage? The fullness of her breasts under a thin summer blouse? Did she dress that way on that day just to look nice, or is it a subtle temptation/reward for Kyosuke?

AFA Kyosuke's returning drenched & looking a mess, surely Madoka must have suspected something strange. This is the most obvious clue that Kyosuke is doing unusual things.

The kimono & fireworks scene made it all forgotten. Madoka must be
realising, she's never been so happy where she is now, Kyosuke is mostly responsible for that. What she needs to hear & see more of, is reassurance from him.

Amasawa

08-19-2006, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Tell me that you don't find this one most memorable for the hazy atmosphere and the wonderful fanservice!

Anyway, it is from this moment onward that, for me, the series really becomes about youth and scorching summer memories that never let up. KOR really finds its groove, turning out memorable results.

[/ QUOTE ]
The atmosphere is good, but I have a difficult time watching Kyosuke go back and forth between the library and the pool. It is just too painful to watch him messing things up with Madoka.

For me, it is the next episode where the good "scorching summer memoires" begin.

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- I'm dense...is the term "Newtype" actually referring to another anime, or is it just the pop culture thing?

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I believe it is what the younger generation call themselves. There is a magazine by that name that covers anime, manga, games, and other youth related stuff.

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- The eyecatch for this ep has the worst picture quality that I've seen yet in the show

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I noticed that and wondered whether AnimEigo messed it up, or what?

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- "Breaking Heart" is the song playing at the disco. I actually really dig this instrumental version with the guitar, but really can't listen to the vocal one (performed in ep. 13)

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You mean "Bacon Heart"? ;-) This song has too many odd Mondegreens in it for me, such as:

"...in the midst of moaning I wanna pee."

"Bacon heart! Hold me! Daddy did not stay."

"Bacon heart! Kiss me! No yo a gang of fools don't bother me.

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
The library/pool episode (which seems to be have been re-written & spiced up a bit for the OVA "Hurricane Akane"). But here its more important as apparently Kyosuke still has trouble being torn between his heart & his hormones - with more relevance to the overall story.
This is a story with emphasis on the physical.

[/ QUOTE ]
Kyosuke also seems to be worrying about Hatta and Komatsu being unsupervised with his sisters at the pool. If one wants to think the better of him, one would think his motivation to go back to the pool is, at least in part, to protect his sisters.

There is one particular frame where Hatta and Komatsu have particularly lecherous looks. I think they are gloating in the background about Kyosuke not being there while Hikaru is wondering where he got off to.

[ QUOTE ]

Is Madoka aware of the power-of-cleavage? The fullness of her breasts under a thin summer blouse? Did she dress that way on that day just to look nice, or is it a subtle temptation/reward for Kyosuke?

[/ QUOTE ]
When I was that age, girls had a particularly keen radar for when guys were staring at their breasts. Madoka seems totally oblivious. There are a number of places in KOR where "suspension of disbelief"* is difficult. This is one of them. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[ QUOTE ]

AFA Kyosuke's returning drenched & looking a mess, surely Madoka must have suspected something strange. This is the most obvious clue that Kyosuke is doing unusual things.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think Madoka suspects that there is more to Kyosuke than meets the eye. She is very intelligent, and there have been a number of clues. Unlike Hikaru, she is the type of person who would not say anything unless Kyosuke brought it up. In Shin KOR, Hikaru tells Kyosuke that Madoka had told her, "Kasuga has secrets."

[ QUOTE ]

The kimono & fireworks scene made it all forgotten. Madoka must be
realising, she's never been so happy where she is now, Kyosuke is mostly responsible for that. What she needs to hear & see more of, is reassurance from him.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, a nice conclusion. This seems to end a series of episodes where Kyosuke is on the outs with Madoka and then finds redemption at the last minute.

--

*Suspension of disbelief is a phrase Tolkien used, in his essay on fairy tales, to describe how one must accept certain premises of the world created in the story. In KOR, you have to accept a world where certain people can have "Powers" for example.

Tomcat

08-19-2006, 09:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
- Kyo settles the issue that popped up earlier with ages, when he says something about this being the summer of his 15th year

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I take this as meaning his 15th summer. Since his birthday is in November, his first summer would be at age zero, and he would now be 14. I don't want to rehash the age thing again.
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- I'm dense...is the term "Newtype" actually referring to another anime, or is it just the pop culture thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe it is what the younger generation call themselves. There is a magazine by that name that covers anime, manga, games, and other youth related stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]
I believe that it is a generation thing, somewhat equivalent to "Generation X" in the US. I don't know what the current generation is, or if it's still the "NewType" generation.
[ QUOTE ]
The library/pool episode (which seems to be have been re-written & spiced up a bit for the OVA "Hurricane Akane"). But here its more important as apparently Kyosuke still has trouble being torn between his heart & his hormones - with more relevance to the overall story.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kyosuke also seems to be worrying about Hatta and Komatsu being unsupervised with his sisters at the pool. If one wants to think the better of him, one would think his motivation to go back to the pool is, at least in part, to protect his sisters.

There is one particular frame where Hatta and Komatsu have particularly lecherous looks. I think they are gloating in the background about Kyosuke not being there while Hikaru is wondering where he got off to.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that this is not Madoka vs. Hikaru thing. Sure, he runs off to the pool when she call, even after already making plans with Madoka, but that's not why he keeps teleporting back. He was all ready to go when he runs into the twins, followed closely by the perverted duo. And, for the matter of going to the pool to start with... This IS Japan, it IS hot, there ISN'T central air conditioning, who wouldn't want to go to the pool if they were invited? He hadn't really seen Hikaru as a possible sex object so much until this point, or at least seemed surprised to see that she looked so nice in her swimsuit.
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When I was that age, girls had a particularly keen radar for when guys were staring at their breasts. Madoka seems totally oblivious. There are a number of places in KOR where "suspension of disbelief"* is difficult. This is one of them.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that Madoka is completely aware that that he is checking her out, and is just letting him do it. I figure that she is aware enough that she is a sex object, of sorts. She would not be surprised to find boys (and grown men) looking at her. She certainly expects Kyosuke might be looking down her blouse. I think she is probably just used to the attention and ignores it.

I also don't she was dressing like this to get his attention, but this is just her normal, more mature, attire. Plus, her family is well off, with two daughters. You would think that Madoka would probably like cloths and shopping. And with a sister that is 6-10 years older than her, she has been exposed to more mature outfits for quite a while.
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I think Madoka suspects that there is more to Kyosuke than meets the eye. She is very intelligent, and there have been a number of clues. Unlike Hikaru, she is the type of person who would not say anything unless Kyosuke brought it up.

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Madoka certainly expects that there is something strange going on. Whether she suspects that he has ESP at THIS point or not, I'm not sure. She would be open to this possibility, though.

-TC

edit: Geez, formatting on the forums sucks.

Shsway

08-19-2006, 10:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
I also don't she was dressing like this to get his attention, but this is just her normal, more mature, attire.

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I kind of think that it was both, in this case. Woohoo!

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Plus, her family is well off, with two daughters. You would think that Madoka would probably like cloths and shopping. And with a sister that is 6-10 years older than her, she has been exposed to more mature outfits for quite a while.

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Good points.

I am also of the belief that Madoka must suspect something at this point about Kyosuke. She's been proven to be rather smart, and not oblivious, so one wonders what she assumes about this situation. At the least, she might wonder if he was randomly going upstairs to "take care of business", as that one cleaning lady who walks into the room might have believed...

I do take the best argument for his teleporting activities as his trying to protect his sisters in this ep. Otherwise, he would be downright stupid to give up any one-on-one, up-close and personal time with the goddess. I know I was really angry at Hatta's move on Kurumi, as he strikes me as one who wouldn't have the guts to approach a girl outside of the Kasuga family, much less in an honorable way (not to mention his copping a feel when he thought that the oniichan isn't around). If I were Kyo, I would have, at the least, threatened him with a broken nose or a black eye for that.

Just a handful of things to say:

- Madoka's emphasis on "starting things off right" at the beginning of their study date really got me thinking
- I love the still that shows everyone at the pool reacting to Kyo, after he tells them he's not going to the fireworks show...the angry look that Hikaru gets...
- It sort of looked as though Madoka needed a moment to composed herself, after shutting the door to ABCB's locker area (after gazing at the bag that her kimono was stored in)
- Kyo's understanding of the situation was really on. The kid did good, and you could see that on Madoka's face
- That scene of them alone at ABCB is one of my favorites from the series, especially as Ayukawa looks wonderful. Simple, beautiful elegance

Shsway

08-19-2006, 11:02 PM

To the relief of both myself and Madoka, this isn't that kind of ghost story.

musouka

08-19-2006, 11:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
- I'm dense...is the term "Newtype" actually referring to another anime, or is it just the pop culture thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, no rudeness intended, but I've never seen a single UC Gundam series, and even I recognize the term "Newtype". I know there might not be much of a crossover between American fans of 80's romcom and fans of giant robots, but I'm really surprised no one else here had even heard of it. Anyway, this might help. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtype)

Shsway

08-19-2006, 11:12 PM

Yes, it does. Really, I should have just verified my suspicions, but I'm not even sure whether Hikaru was referencing Gundam in the scene or not. /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif

Amasawa

08-20-2006, 01:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
To the relief of both myself and Madoka, this isn't that kind of ghost story.

[/ QUOTE ]

The ghost story added a nice bit o' cultcha, and atmosphere to the episode. Funny, Madoka being suseptible to ghost stories and Hikaru not. Nice twist.

I had a little trouble with Madoka fainting and staying unconscious for so long over a spook fright. That was a bit of a stretch in the writing. Oh well, Kyosuke enjoyed carrying her on his back -- first major physical contact, I think (not counting the quick "bat" incident).

Some of the surfing scenes were fairly good, but some of it was imagined by a hodaddy.

Kyosuke finally gets to be a hero, and can't tell anyone about it. Doesn't seem to bother him though.

Amasawa

08-20-2006, 01:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:

Just a handful of things to say:

- Madoka's emphasis on "starting things off right" at the beginning of their study date really got me thinking

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What did it get you thinking? It didn't catch my attention.

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- I love the still that shows everyone at the pool reacting to Kyo, after he tells them he's not going to the fireworks show...the angry look that Hikaru gets...
- It sort of looked as though Madoka needed a moment to composed herself, after shutting the door to ABCB's locker area (after gazing at the bag that her kimono was stored in)

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I think there was a faint sigh in there. That was shortly after she said to herself, "Just what do I think I'm trying to do." or something like that. Seemed like she was just on the edge of considering Kyosuke a write off.

Nice look on her face when he appeared.

[ QUOTE ]

- Kyo's understanding of the situation was really on. The kid did good, and you could see that on Madoka's face
- That scene of them alone at ABCB is one of my favorites from the series, especially as Ayukawa looks wonderful. Simple, beautiful elegance

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, nice save.

I miss the days when we could set off our own fireworks.

KK1

08-20-2006, 03:15 AM

OK heres where the anime takes a turn from the manga this time they've combined the first story of vol 2 with the last 2 stories about the introduction of Yusaku. In the manga the studying story was just by itself. And plays out exactly the same (except Madoka doesn't call him out at the end),it's also the first time we see Hatta's name when Kyousuke sees his score between his and Komatsu. Though one scene struck me since we get to hear Kyousuke's thoughts, when he's studying with Madoka she leans in and he compares her smell to Hikaru's when they were dancing then thinks to himself(it's similar yet somehow Madoka's is more sensual he then goes "are" looks down and turns beat red and shouts "Hey at a time like this!" surprising her and shoves his hands on his lap(was it me or did he get a chubby?) He asks if she's wearing perfume and thinks to himself "Madoka's fragrance should be a criminal offense".

Since the Yusaku story is 2 chapters we get a little more about him. Thers also a cute little scene where Madoka and Kyousuke are sharing an umbrella (Kyousuke forgot his and Madoka said it will cost him to share hers...more than one cup of coffee, I wonder what she had in mind...)then quickly unshare it when Hikaru shows up, she of course gives him her umbrella since she's so sweet /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif It seems Yuusaku was their childhood friend but it's been awhile since Madoka has seen him. In his jealousy Kyousuke causes him to trip down stairs and Yusaku shows him he's not one to mess with by punching a door(not a lamppost like the anime). He also tells her he's glad its not her Yusaku likes but embarrassingly covers his mouth after.
We then learn why Yusaku is so in love with Hikaru through a flashback (kawaii) we see Yuusaku playing with the girls and losing a race then getting beat up by the other little boys because he plays with girls and Hikaru has to save him( I guess Hikaru has always been tough too), he doesn't like that she's stronger than him but she tells him if he gets stronger she'll marry him, its a promise! Thus Yusaku has trained and trained and now feels tough enough for Hikaru, who of course by now has found Kyousuke /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif
Yusaku then spends the rest of the story following him around trying to expose him for the rat Yusaku thinks he is. He thinks he's a playboy after seeing him talking to his sisters then a pervert when he sees him reading a girly magazine( which Yusaku ends up buying after getting a look inside) /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif
At Abcd while talking about Yuu Madoka tells Kyousuke if he's a man to act like one and decide whether he likes Hikaru (startling Kyouskue) A little embarrassed Madoka says it's only because she feels sorry for Yusaku of course Kyousuke turns the tables and asks if it's only for Yusaku's sake he should decide, and she turns them again by asking what other reason could there be? They both then start joking and changing the subject, this is a great little scene of back and forth I wish they could have put in the anime, it shows how they're both on the same wavelength about what's going on between them but neither willing to admit anything doing their little verbal dance instead /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif
Yusaku then spies Kyousuke being freindly with Madoka adding to his playboy suspicions, but adds that he thought Madoka was meaner than that and even as a child can't remember her smiling so cheerfully (this is a good place to mention vol 2's second chapter that wasn't in the anime, there's a cute little scene where Madoka is walking down the street getting the usual stares when a little boy's ball rolls out by her and she pauses then smiles and throws it back(I'll have to scan the picture only Madoka can throw like that /images/graemlins/wink.gif )she waves then stares at her hand wondering what's gotten into her, since she's usually not like this and has been cheerful lately, love will do that to a girl /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif) Back to Yusaku who at school the next day is going to pound Kyousuke for "cheating" on Hikaru, Kyousuke has to use the power but gets creative and makes a girl standing near by's dress flip up distracting the girl prone Yusaku until Hikaru shows up. Kyousuke thinks he's going to get busted by Yusaku blabbing about him and Madoka but it turns out he's so shy around Hikaru in the manga he runs away before he can even open his mouth. Ironically Hikaru wonder's if Kyousuke is jealous but tells him not to worry because she would never cheat on him /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Back to the manga only story I mentioned above "Shopping Boogie" it's a pretty good story basically Master sets up Kyosuke and Madoka on a date (Master's so sly) /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif Actually he needs Madoka to do some shopping for the Abcd and suggests Kyousuke go along to carry everything since Master can't go. Kyousuke enthusiastically agrees and Madoka (slightly miffed at Master) makes sure Kyousuke realizes it's not for fun. Of course it starts out fun for Madoka who gets a little laugh at Kyousuke who's a little overdressed,( you think some of the anime outfits are bad? its a suit jacket with an argyle sweater and tie with floods /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif ) then another one when a store clerk thinks he's her little brother helping his big sis /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif After shopping and having coffee, 2 high school jerks hit on Madoka and again Kyousuke gets called a litle kid, Kyousuke gets mad but Madoka ignores them and they leave, they then get stuck on an elevator and smoke starts coming in. For once Madoka seems really scared but tells him don't worry she doesn't think of him as a kid brother. A remasculated Kyousuke is about to reveal the power to save them when he changes tactics and uses it (by concentrating it on his ears)to hear they're going to be alright and reassures Madoka they will be alright. It turns out there was just a small little fire in the restaurant they just left and they're rescued, Madoka then gets mad because when Kyousuke picked up the phone in the elevator she thinks he knew it was nothing but let her get scared so he could act tough, well one step forward 2 steps back for Kyousuke (a little smile at the end lets us know she's just teasing though).

KK1

08-20-2006, 03:57 AM

Another 2 volumes turned into 1 episode "Alcohol Blues" and "The Incoherent Feeling!"

-Pretty similar again Madoka teasing Kyousuke about being a little kid, one difference is the couple taunting them isn't a couple in the manga it's just 2 older girls mouthing off who don't realize it's Madoka then realize their mistake but grow a little bolder with their comments when Madoka doesn't say anything back, of course it's the "kid" comment that really throws Kyousuke off again.
-And Kyousuke drinks 6 drinks not just 1 or 2.
-Again Master's sage advice makes Madoka rethink her anger about Kyousuke
-we get Madoka's thoughts as she's going down the stairs "That guy" "I was finally going to let him off the hook", "If he wants to get friendly with Hikaru, then fine!" and whe he tries to apologize she says "sayonara"(bye for good) did she say that in the anime?
-oh and as to why she would eat the katsu sand in his pocket, in the manga kustu sands are enclosed in a plastic wrapper not half a bag like the anime

Njr Scrawl

08-20-2006, 05:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Kyosuke also seems to be worrying about Hatta and Komatsu being unsupervised with his sisters at the pool. If one wants to think the better of him, one would think his motivation to go back to the pool is, at least in part, to protect his sisters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its strange that he didn't explain that to Madoka, as she would have let him go knowing what Komatsu & Hatta are like. Perhaps Kyosuke was more worried about Kurumi using The Power if she got too ticked off - or groped, which of course could not be explained to Madoka! Komatsu & Hatta can be good comic relief, othertimes I want to chop them into dog meat /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Kyosuke's powers are developing the more he has to use them (heh "Newtype" in a X-Man way?), & his focus & endurance as he gets older increases. Early days yet. In SKOR II novel, IIRC Kyosuke in his 20s mentally makes Hikaru feel tired & go to sleep happily, so he can have time with Madoka without hurting Hikaru's feelings. .

Njr Scrawl

08-20-2006, 05:38 AM

Thanks for your review. Interesting details & extras of the KOR-iverse.

I think Kyosuke did "get a chubby". He checks himself on 3 occasions in the anime, twice to see how he is after spending a night he can't remember clearly in another woman's room (after drinking), & once in a woman's changing room changing shorts.

Hikaru is brave when she wants to be & is protecting people she cares about. She's not as delicate as she wants people to believe. Yuusaku seems to be a jock joke in both versions. Shame.

Njr Scrawl

08-20-2006, 05:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
-we get Madoka's thoughts as she's going down the stairs "That guy"

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Hmmm, on the DVD subtitles its translated as "that jerk" IIRC its the same scene. I remember being surprised as I didn't remember reading "jerk" before on VHS or LD versions, & it seemed too strong a word to me for Madoka to use about Kyosuke. I'll have to dig out my big discs & check for sure.

O-chan

08-20-2006, 06:53 AM

Not to be incredibly spoilerific but did anyone get that KOR movie 1 feel when watching this episode? It seemed to heavily foreshadow the events that occur in the first movie.

O-chan

Natsume_Maya

08-20-2006, 07:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
I don't have anything to add for this episode, except: where did Madoka get that swimsuit from for the photo? She wasn't originally part of the planned shoot so there would've been no reason for her to have a swimsuit on her. I don't think Kyosuke's dad would've had a spare swimsuit on him either.

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Seems like an intelligent girl would take a swimsuit with her when going to the beach.

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Normally, I'd agree. But in this case, Madoka was accompanying Hikaru as chaperone for a photo shoot. And if the reason she was chaperoning was that she was concerned that the photographer might try to take advantage of Hikaru, that'd be even less reason to bring a swimsuit along.

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Oh, any why does ABCB have a tree growing inside? A potted plant/tree I could understand, but this tree seems to be planted in the ground. Always seems odd to me.

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Didn't notice the tree. What scene is it in?

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Sorry, I can't recall. But the tree pops up now and then in ABCB scenes. No doubt you'll see it again.

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
- Master is awful nice to play along with Madoka's whims to such an extent

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I thought he was at least going to get her to sweep up the mess /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Natsume_Maya

08-20-2006, 07:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
- Kyo's understanding of the situation was really on. The kid did good, and you could see that on Madoka's face

[/ QUOTE ]

I liked this part of the episode. Kyosuke could've just tried to an excuse/explanation, but he realised what he'd done wrong and set about trying to fix it.

[ QUOTE ]
O-chan said:
Not to be incredibly spoilerific but did anyone get that KOR movie 1 feel when watching this episode?

[/ QUOTE ]

I did too /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Other thoughts on episode 17:

- I liked the sound effect of Kyosuke swallowing when he's eyeing Madoka's cleavage (IIRC) /images/graemlins/happy.gif

- Kyosuke's teleportation power is never exact: in the past he "jumped" to metres in front of a bus, metres under a bus; in this episode, he teleported into the ladies changing room. So how was he able to teleport the fireworks exactly within the grasp of his hand? /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

- I was interested by the faint "ABCB" decoration on the coaster (or whatever it is) that Kyosuke used for the fireworks. To me, it shows the kind of effort that the staff went to in making the show.

Natsume_Maya

08-20-2006, 08:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
The ghost story added a nice bit o' cultcha, and atmosphere to the episode. Funny, Madoka being suseptible to ghost stories and Hikaru not. Nice twist.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, Madoka's fear of ghosts etc seems out of character. She's not afraid of delinquents, teachers, tsunami-sized waves, but is scared of ghosts... It helps with story devices (and gives Madoka a stereotypically feminine aspect) but seems out of character.

[ QUOTE ]
I had a little trouble with Madoka fainting and staying unconscious for so long over a spook fright. That was a bit of a stretch in the writing.

[/ QUOTE ]

So was naming the wave "Big Monday" /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Some of the surfing scenes were fairly good, but some of it was imagined by a hodaddy.

[/ QUOTE ]

They drew a leg-rope on Koto when she was surfing, but none on Madoka. Though I guess you could argue that was intentional so that Madoka's getting back on the surfboard was even more amazing.

Other thoughts:

- We hear the song "Orange Mystery" for the first time in the TV series. One of my favourite KOR songs.

- Manami and Kurumi use Power in a new way: to create beach scenes /images/graemlins/happy.gif

- The guest female character in this episode is Koto. Unusually for female characters in KOR, her name has only two syllables and is written in kanji. Main female characters have three syllable names written in hiragana (eg Hikaru, Madoka, Manami, Kurumi, Akane, Akemi etc).

Njr Scrawl

08-20-2006, 08:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
O-chan said:
Not to be incredibly spoilerific but did anyone get that KOR movie 1 feel when watching this episode? It seemed to heavily foreshadow the events that occur in the first movie.

O-chan

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup both are in mid-summer & in both Madoka is wearing a similar or the same white blouse, in the cram school class as she does in the library here.

Natsume_Maya

08-20-2006, 08:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
OK heres where the anime takes a turn from the manga this time they've combined the first story of vol 2 with the last 2 stories about the introduction of Yusaku.
<snip>
(this is a good place to mention vol 2's second chapter that wasn't in the anime, there's a cute little scene where Madoka is walking down the street getting the usual stares when a little boy's ball rolls out by her and she pauses then smiles and throws it back(I'll have to scan the picture only Madoka can throw like that /images/graemlins/wink.gif )she waves then stares at her hand wondering what's gotten into her, since she's usually not like this and has been cheerful lately, love will do that to a girl /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif)

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a different scene in a draft of the KOR manga (presumably chapter 1):
During school, Kyosuke looks out the window and sees Madoka by herself, leaning against a wall of one of the school buildings. A soccer ball rolls to her feet and a primary school kid runs to her saying "Sankyu, Oneechan!"
Madoka gives the ball a full-blooded kick, leg fully extended, and the ball flies into the hands of the kid with a thump. Kyosuke seems surprised by her fierce kick.
The kid runs off saying "Arigatou". Then he calls to his friends "That Oneechan's wearing pink!" Another voice says "Yay, I win!!" /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Njr Scrawl

08-20-2006, 10:54 AM

Awed/scared Madoka is really cute like Miyuki scared in YUA. This is the first episode I remember Kyosuke being asked if Madoka is his girlfriend. The 2 look so right for each other as a couple!

I'm sure Madoka must have a suspicion Kyosuke did something to save her. However her belief in the supernatural could make her genuinely believe it was the ghost.

Madoka's comment that she understood doing something drastic to get over a memory (of a man), made me wonder if she was referring to a bad experience she had had, or perhaps what happened in her infancy as shown in ep.47.

Madoka enjoyed the piggyback ride & I think feigned sleep for awhile, or let Kyosuke continue undisturbed. Both must have been feeling the close body warmth & proximity of each other, Kyosuke having Madoka's front pressed to his back, warm & soft. The play afterwards shows how far their personal space barriers get lowered when left alone together.

An import observation from Kyosuke is that he needs to look after Madoka & be more aware of her circumstances more. Madoka's injury is the first time she's needed someone for physical help, & Kyosuke realises she's not a supergirl. This is his first step towards both an equality with Madoka, & becoming more adult (apart from his protectiveness towards his sisters).

Njr Scrawl

08-20-2006, 11:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That scene of them alone at ABCB is one of my favorites from the series, especially as Ayukawa looks wonderful. Simple, beautiful elegance

[/ QUOTE ]

I smiled when Madoka told Kyosuke not to look at her "in that way". I don't thing she likes to be oggled unless its her game. But Madoka would look good in a potato sack!

This was a friendship atmosphere-sharing scene, more than any other type. In a later episode Madoka says to Kyosuke that she wants their memories together to be etched out one at a time.

KK1

08-20-2006, 11:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
[ QUOTE ]
-we get Madoka's thoughts as she's going down the stairs "That guy"

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, on the DVD subtitles its translated as "that jerk" IIRC its the same scene. I remember being surprised as I didn't remember reading "jerk" before on VHS or LD versions, & it seemed too strong a word to me for Madoka to use about Kyosuke. I'll have to dig out my big discs & check for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

NANI yo aitsu!
Is what she says in Japanese, she is pissed but "jerk" does seem too strong a translation.

KK1

08-20-2006, 12:24 PM

This story is very similar except instead of the model shoot at their apartment(kinda of an odd place for a professional shoot wouldn't you say, plus Takashi never shoots people until the beach and he's only doing that shoot as a favor) we get to see how takashi "discovers" Hikaru /images/graemlins/happy.gif like father like son he runs into her (literally) on the street "Watch where you're going, you blockhead!! " /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif
This is why Kyousuke never puts 2 and 2 together before meeting at the train station, when he agrees to help his father he assumes it's his usual landscape work since he knows he doesn't take pictures of models. Hikaru's pretty funny throughtout this story, when worrying when Madoka brings up girls being tricked "Come to think of it, I recall the guy had a sorta perverted, mustached face..." /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif to at the train station after she finds out Takashi is Kyousuke's dad( and gets all worried because she called him a blockhead) and tries to be extra nice "Oh, shall I carry your bag for you, otoosama? " /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif The twins and 2 idiots don't come either it's just the 4 of them, also Madoka is wearing a miniskirt not an ankle length one like in the anime(I thought the anime was weird with her standing in the water in that skirt, what do they have against drawing Madoka's legs anyway? /images/graemlins/anger100.gif) The best part is the differences at the end, in the manga Takashi teases Kyousuke by asking him if he'd ask Madoka if he could photograph her in the nude (Kyousuke embarrassingly refuses and Takashi gets his little laugh). He then really messes with his head when he gives both the pictures we see in the anime to Kyousuke(except Madoka is holding Kyousuke by the wrist just like the actual scene, no idea why the anime would change it?) and after the Madoka pic tells him it reminds him of him and his mom when they were young and Kyousuke wonders to himself if it's fate that's brought them together, of course when he says the exact same thing about the Hikaru pic he gets all confused "What the heck sort of mother was she?!!" "But... Which one did mom really resemble?" (he obviously doesn't really remeber his mother). He also doesn't give Madoka the picture in the manga, he keeps both.

KK1

08-20-2006, 01:01 PM

This story is different from the anime in that no one is out shopping when it happens, Manami just comes up to Kyousuke and Madoka after school(Hikaru was sick and not at school and M&K were even taling about going out that night!) and Komatsu overhearing joins in(Hikaru, Yuusaku and Hatta are not in it). Kyousuke and Madoka do go to the arcade and find the ugly guy because of Manami's description, but even Madoka thinks it's him not just Kyousuke. Also they never help or offer to help look, Kyousuke just wonders what kind of girl Madoka was since they all know who she is, but she never says "they're my friends" like the anime. Komatsu's brother also never watches a video, he's getting all his "smooth " moves from a book "PLAYBOY Press" 100% Success Rate. Dos and Don'ts of Girl-Chasing. There's also no make out park that M&K go into (are such things even real?) however we do get for the first time in the manga Umao-san and Ushiko-san who are rudely interrupted by a staring and curious Kurumi "Say! Is that what's called a "love scene"? " It ends the same but Kurumi only lets Komatsu's brother off after some further dining "Okay! I'll let you off in exchange for 2 chocolate parfaits." /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif(he and Komatsu think Kurumi threw him with self defense techniques) And Kyousuke tries to pretend he wasn't really worried to Madoka who teases behind his back "Ah! Watch out, Kurumi-chan!!" to which he worriedly spins around, and the girls all get a laugh.

Njr Scrawl

08-20-2006, 01:24 PM

We never know what happened to Kyosuke's mother. I presume she's dead, but there are no tragic overtones in the anime - be interesting to hear if more is revealed in the manga.

KK1

08-20-2006, 02:33 PM

This story isn't in the manga, I think the foreboding dream may be a anime creation.

JasonSolaris

08-20-2006, 02:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
We never know what happened to Kyosuke's mother. I presume she's dead, but there are no tragic overtones in the anime - be interesting to hear if more is revealed in the manga.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the manga translation. Kyosuke's mother died after giving birth to the twins. There's a few chapters near the end of the manga series that mention it while visiting her grave.
Thanks

KK1

08-20-2006, 03:19 PM

This is pretty much the same story but without any of the "Graduate" stuff. Madoka's gone for 3 days Kyousuke gets suspicious when she starts acting really nice when she gets back (wiping a toothpaste stain from his shirt, buying him a pizza) after Manami tells him girls get nice when they get something nice from someone or have a boyfriend. The ring and overhearing "ceremony" and "engagement" in her phonecall (along with a marriage comment from Master) sends him into a tizzy and he goes home and decides he's going to use the power to read her mind( he's never done it in the manga but the way he says it makes it sound like he can). Madoka sees he left his bag at Abcd and so returns it to his apartment where Kyousuke asks her to the roof to read her mind, but he decides that's too cowrdly and just asks her. We then get a slightly different story than the anime, it seems Madoka's sister is rather shy(and we get her age 27, quite a gap between the sisters) and Madoka was going with her on marriage interviews(her 7th) and the mediator was calling her instead of her sister. And the ring she bought with her Abcd money for herself, she just wanted to wear it for the interview but it won't come off(she wonders if she's getting fat /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif) We never see the ring again because Kyousuke helps pull it off but accidently drops it off the roof /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

KK1

08-20-2006, 03:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
JasonSolaris said:
[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
We never know what happened to Kyosuke's mother. I presume she's dead, but there are no tragic overtones in the anime - be interesting to hear if more is revealed in the manga.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read the manga translation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't want to mention it yet /images/graemlins/shy00000.gif

KK1

08-20-2006, 04:22 PM

As you can see this does take place much later in the manga, and it's similar but not so overdramatic as the anime. They know Madoka is leaving she doesn't hide it (she tells them the day after tomorrow)but there's no rooftop lunch to get her to stay, Hikaru thinks she's lucky and wishes she could go(and just tells her they'll see her off at the airport). It also seems Madoka didn't just live with her sister but her grandparents too(at least in the flashback to when she was small she does, though Hikaru says since she was little she's been in the care of her grandfather) also her sister's marriage is now mentioned but we never saw it like the anime. We also see Madoka angrily talking to her mom (you left me alone now you suddenly want me to leave) but seems to agree she's coming. The meeting between Kyousuke and Madoka is also slightly different(there's no Abcd party and no one is looking for her) it's 4AM and Kyousuke can't sleep when he goes outside to take a walk Madoka is there (she couldn't sleep either and had walked there). Now they go to the swings(which are right there and no where near the steps,though they do flashback to their conversation at the steps) the conversation is pretty much the same, Madoka was just "joking" though we do get a conversation of her parents on the plane- Mother:That Madoka. Telling us only yesterday that she won't go!
Father:It's okay. The next time we come, all three of us can go back together.

Amasawa

08-20-2006, 05:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
[ QUOTE ]
Kyosuke also seems to be worrying about Hatta and Komatsu being unsupervised with his sisters at the pool. If one wants to think the better of him, one would think his motivation to go back to the pool is, at least in part, to protect his sisters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its strange that he didn't explain that to Madoka, as she would have let him go knowing what Komatsu & Hatta are like. Perhaps Kyosuke was more worried about Kurumi using The Power if she got too ticked off - or groped, which of course could not be explained to Madoka! Komatsu & Hatta can be good comic relief, othertimes I want to chop them into dog meat /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
What, like: "Madoka, my sisters are at the pool with Hatta and Komatsu. Excuse me while I magically transport back to protect them."?

My first thought was that the writers were just making Kyosuke avoid the obvious solution to allow them to write this plot easily. (This kind of thing is what keeps me from watching American sitcoms.) However, he would have difficulty explaining how he went back and forth to the pool quickly. It could be a considerable distance from the library.

KK1

08-20-2006, 05:06 PM

This story is rather different in the manga, there's no trash cleaning and it starts with Madoka and Hikaru shopping together. Hikaru likes her new dress until she sees Madoka's and starts feeling like a kid next to her (just like Kyousuke, in the manga it seems Madoka's more mature looks and actions brings out the insecurities of those still in their akward phase). Hikaru though asks for Madoka's help to look sexy. Kyousuke was already going with Hikaru to the concert, not because she suddenly looked good(he hasn't seen her new look yet) but because Madoka's working and his sisters don't understand rcok music(she was his last choice /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif ) Of course when he does ee her, he sits right next to her and doesn't recognize her (thinking to himself who's this beautiful mature looking girl she must be a senior in High school). Even after she tells him it's her, he asks if it's really her. So standing in line 2 jerks( no wonder Madoka likes Kyousuke it seems every other guy in this town is an ahole) cut in front of Kyousuke and start teasing him about being a kid, of course Hikaru even though she changed her look is still Hikaru and rips right back into them(she was even speaking more mature earlier, and Kyousuke didn't say anything because he just had a converstion with his dad about being careful not to use his power) Though eventually even he loses his temper and drags Hikaru away as he uses the power to make one jerk punch the other and they start fighting each other.
Hikaru is upset she still can't act mature and ruined their date but Kyousuke in a rare moment of being nice reassures her she wouldn't be her if she acted any other way, he buys her ice cream and asks her out again tomorrow(realizing not many girls are actually as nice as Hikaru). Of course Madoka shows up and he thinks he's busted but she knew about the date and also uncharacteristically lets Kyousuke off the hook. Why the anime made that lame Yuusaku subplot I don't know, it seems if something is really bad in the anime it's because they decided to stray a little too much from the manga. They blew a great chance to show Kyousuke liking Hikaru for who she is and added an unnescessary element of Madoka being unhappy about her looks(which she's not).

Amasawa

08-20-2006, 05:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
I don't have anything to add for this episode, except: where did Madoka get that swimsuit from for the photo? She wasn't originally part of the planned shoot so there would've been no reason for her to have a swimsuit on her. I don't think Kyosuke's dad would've had a spare swimsuit on him either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like an intelligent girl would take a swimsuit with her when going to the beach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Normally, I'd agree. But in this case, Madoka was accompanying Hikaru as chaperone for a photo shoot. And if the reason she was chaperoning was that she was concerned that the photographer might try to take advantage of Hikaru, that'd be even less reason to bring a swimsuit along.

[/ QUOTE ]

If she wanted to be prepared for all possibilities, she would have had it with her. Perhaps there would be some situation where she would have needed to have a suit to stay close to Hikaru. She wouldn't need to reveal to anyone that she had it with her if she didn't need it.

KK1

08-20-2006, 05:24 PM

Again not in the manga.

Amasawa

08-20-2006, 05:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
The ghost story added a nice bit o' cultcha, and atmosphere to the episode. Funny, Madoka being suseptible to ghost stories and Hikaru not. Nice twist.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, Madoka's fear of ghosts etc seems out of character. She's not afraid of delinquents, teachers, tsunami-sized waves, but is scared of ghosts... It helps with story devices (and gives Madoka a stereotypically feminine aspect) but seems out of character.

[/ QUOTE ]
The obvious thing to do would be to make her fearless, but having her be uneasy with certain things gives us a hint that there is a vulnerability under the hard shell. If she feared nothing, she would be a cardboard cutout character with no depth. Her moodiness comes from inner pain which shows a lack of confidence about some things. So, I don't have a problem with her being nervous about the supernatural.

Hikaru being totally unconcerned about such things, for me, somehow adds to the shallowness and self-centered nature of her personality.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I had a little trouble with Madoka fainting and staying unconscious for so long over a spook fright. That was a bit of a stretch in the writing.

[/ QUOTE ]

So was naming the wave "Big Monday" /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, having a large wave arriving according to the calendar schedule is really a stretch.

[ QUOTE ]

Other thoughts:

- Manami and Kurumi use Power in a new way: to create beach scenes /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Mixing their mother's power and their father's photographic talent? They seem to be able to do it in 360 panoramas. Nice skill. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Amasawa

08-20-2006, 08:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
Hikaru is upset she still can't act mature and ruined their date but Kyousuke in a rare moment of being nice reassures her she wouldn't be her if she acted any other way, he buys her ice cream and asks her out again tomorrow(realizing not many girls are actually as nice as Hikaru). Of course Madoka shows up and he thinks he's busted but she knew about the date and also uncharacteristically lets Kyousuke off the hook. Why the anime made that lame Yuusaku subplot I don't know, it seems if something is really bad in the anime it's because they decided to stray a little too much from the manga. They blew a great chance to show Kyousuke liking Hikaru for who she is and added an unnescessary element of Madoka being unhappy about her looks(which she's not).

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks very much for the continued manga report.

So, Kyosuke doesn't mistakenly call Hikaru "Madoka" in the manga? That really is a massive change in the anime.

KK1

08-20-2006, 08:42 PM

vol4 chap 2 "I'm Sorry I'm Indecisive!"

In the manga this is the first day of the new school term after summer vacation and the story is really nothing like the anime(no flashback), it starts the same with the twins fighting but Kyousuke's dad is not having an art exhibit and Hikaru never confronts Kyousuke about liking her and of course Madoka as well never treats Kyousuke any different(he doesn't speak to either girl at all actually). The scenes at school are the same except Kurumi doesn't use the power on the ball she just throws it and when she realizes it's going to break a window uses the power on Yuusaku to make him open the window leading to his getting plastered. Hikaru and Madoka both help the twins the same but in Hikaru's thought bubble we can see she helps Kurumi with the hopes she'll put in the good word for her with her brother but Madoka is just being nice(and doesn't suck her finger! What the hell was that about anyway isn't that only snake bites? /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif ) Each twin gets a good impression of each girl and when they get home continue their fight by fighting over which one their brother should like more, it's funny though, both sisters still refer to them as delinquents and aren't freindly with them like in the anime(they barely know each other). So anyway Kyousuke again tries to stop the fighting but instead the twins turn on him (someone suggested earlier Kyouske has a sister complex where the two girl's personalities are like his sister's well there a great scene here where the twins are glaring at him which in his eyes turn into Madoka and Hikaru glaring at him) and after throwing all the stuff they were fighting with at him make up and decide Kyousuke's so indecisive neither Hikaru nor Madoka would like him, which hurts Kyousuke just as much as the stuff that hit him.

As for the tv episode(I hadn't commented yet) it's interesting the anime decided to make the girls actually confront Kyousuke already and add that little flash back, I gotta admit though while Madoka looked great in her towel that whole scene was really corny, didn't we already see Madoka's house sits back away from the street and yet he could see right in from a public phone, that's right in front of her house???? The phone calls, Madoka's automatronic waving and Kyousuke being all spaced out(no one wondered where the hell he was?) seemed just very odd(and who's "we" on Madoka's message isn't it just her now? I did like her "beep" though that was cute)And didn't Madoka getting Master to lie seem really out of character for her to anybody else and for him? He's usually giving his sly comments to get Madoka and Kyousuke together, maybe the anime writers felt they needed to speed up the relationship or build some tension? And oh yeah what is up with the tree in Abcd? And where did those swimsuit pictures come from? /images/graemlins/knowital.gif (must have been intern week for the writing staff at the anime)

KK1

08-20-2006, 08:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:

Thanks very much for the continued manga report.

So, Kyosuke doesn't mistakenly call Hikaru "Madoka" in the manga? That really is a massive change in the anime.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope they never even get to see the concert, like I said for once Kyousuke is really nice to Hikaru and the anime decides to make him a jerk.

Tomcat

08-20-2006, 10:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
- Kyo's understanding of the situation was really on. The kid did good, and you could see that on Madoka's face
- That scene of them alone at ABCB is one of my favorites from the series, especially as Ayukawa looks wonderful. Simple, beautiful elegance

[/ QUOTE ]
Fortunately for Kyosuke, he didn't do so good on his homework, so Madoka is going to have to spend some more time with him working on it... I wonder if he did that on purpose. I'm not quite ready to give him THAT much credit.

He did the right thing this time. He could have continued to not understand, but he finally got it. He could have decided to go to the fireworks with Hikaru and everyone else, but he didn't. I wonder if he is starting to get more of an idea that Madoka is really quite open to spending as much time with him as she can.

And... With him popping up right behind her out of nowhere (again), and the strangeness with the wet cloths (you think he smelled of pool water?), what do you suppose she thought about him pulling the fireworks out of thin air. Sure, his had was obscured behind his back, but he didn't pull them out of his butt...

-TC

Shsway

08-20-2006, 11:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
- Madoka's emphasis on "starting things off right" at the beginning of their study date really got me thinking

[/ QUOTE ]
What did it get you thinking? It didn't catch my attention.

[/ QUOTE ]

I kind of read it as a light threat, like "C'mon, Kyosuke. Go along with me on this. I want to start this, and our relationship of sorts, on the right page."

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
Fortunately for Kyosuke, he didn't do so good on his homework, so Madoka is going to have to spend some more time with him working on it... I wonder if he did that on purpose. I'm not quite ready to give him THAT much credit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, me neither. I totally see him being an average student, at best.

Shsway

08-20-2006, 11:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
To me, Madoka's fear of ghosts etc seems out of character. She's not afraid of delinquents, teachers, tsunami-sized waves, but is scared of ghosts...

[/ QUOTE ]
The obvious thing to do would be to make her fearless, but having her be uneasy with certain things gives us a hint that there is a vulnerability under the hard shell.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it could even be argued as somewhat logical. Madoka is a person who is usually or used to being very in control of a situation. With the supernatural, there's no control (no real way of knowing if it even exists). Her fear would be reasonable in that light (makes you wonder what her views on death are, for someone who is painted as being a bit daring and physically capable of many things).

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Other thoughts:
- Manami and Kurumi use Power in a new way: to create beach scenes /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Mixing their mother's power and their father's photographic talent? They seem to be able to do it in 360 panoramas. Nice skill. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't even think about that, it seemed so natural!

What I most like about this episode is the expression of both the lust and the "something more" that Kyosuke feels for Madoka. He talks about how "touching her skin would seem like a sin", yet wholeheartedly subscribes to the notion of protecting her with all his strength.

And uh, there's Ogata Kenichi again, I think, playing the fisherman.

Tomcat

08-20-2006, 11:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
To me, Madoka's fear of ghosts etc seems out of character. She's not afraid of delinquents, teachers, tsunami-sized waves, but is scared of ghosts... It helps with story devices (and gives Madoka a stereotypically feminine aspect) but seems out of character.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think that it is out of character. Fears are never rational. You see big tough guys that are afraid of things like spiders or snakes or mice. That doesn't make them any less tough, just more human. Everyone has fears, Madoka is not afraid of things she can see, but IS afraid of things that she can't. I can understand this completely, as I have similar fears, just WAY more than Madoka seems to have.

-TC

Shsway

08-20-2006, 11:33 PM

Hey, it's the Orange Lagoon! Or not...at any rate, Madoka and Kyosuke finally get a chance to be themselves without the other elements popping in at all times.

Tomcat

08-21-2006, 12:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Hey, it's the Orange Lagoon! Or not...at any rate, Madoka and Kyosuke finally get a chance to be themselves without the other elements popping in at all times.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like to point out that many people incorrectly identify the Kyosuke's comment about "that movie" in this episode as being a reference to "The Blue Lagoon". In reality, it is a reference to "Paradise", which had Ms. Cates in it, Madoka's character design model.

Just some random thoughts on the episode.

What luck that Hikaru and Yusaku got paired off. Madoka, of course, would not have objected. I wonder if Hikaru tried to change it up after they drew straws, though. She seems the type, so I'm wondering how the pairs actually ended up correctly.

Again, Madoka sees Kyosuke do something exceptional, rowing the boat with superhuman power to get them to the island, then sees that he's exhausted. Not to mention the deal with the cliff. I wonder if she had seen the rock jutting out that they SHOULD have hit.

I always liked this episode for the great joy that Madoka and Kyosuke have playing around on the island. They seem to have completely forgotten about Hikaru and Yuusaku. That somewhat bothered me, them not being worried that they had gotten somewhere safely.

But... This is one of the first indications that Madoka wants to build their memories together slowly. She asks Kyosuke to forget about the night they first worked together, as she doesn't want HIM to remember her in that light, rather than the new memories. I think she may be worried that he will think ill of her.

And... Once again, Hikaru shows up at the wrong moment. What kind of moron lets a 12 year old girl on a search helicopter?

-TC

Tomcat

08-21-2006, 12:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Awed/scared Madoka is really cute like Miyuki scared in YUA. This is the first episode I remember Kyosuke being asked if Madoka is his girlfriend. The 2 look so right for each other as a couple!

[/ QUOTE ]
It is funny that every adult sees this.
[ QUOTE ]
Madoka enjoyed the piggyback ride & I think feigned sleep for awhile, or let Kyosuke continue undisturbed. Both must have been feeling the close body warmth & proximity of each other, Kyosuke having Madoka's front pressed to his back, warm & soft. The play afterwards shows how far their personal space barriers get lowered when left alone together.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sure that the piggyback ride was a very good feeling for both of them. It's the sort of intimacy that someone would have with their girlfriend. Normally, they would both be embarrassed about the "contact". Like they were when they touched hands when they first worked together. But, they seem much more comfortable with each other now.
[ QUOTE ]
An import observation from Kyosuke is that he needs to look after Madoka & be more aware of her circumstances more. Madoka's injury is the first time she's needed someone for physical help, & Kyosuke realizes she's not a supergirl. This is his first step towards both an equality with Madoka, & becoming more adult (apart from his protectiveness towards his sisters).

[/ QUOTE ]
It's also interesting that Madoka is actually turning to him FOR protection. The "bat" is a good example of this. She didn't have any problems jumping into his arms like that. I think this is something different for Madoka. Normally she has to be the strong, tough girl, the protector, not the protected. She say that Kyosuke already knows how to be the protector, and is comfortable being protected.

And, the playing together with the piggyback... Now, that takes some REAL comfort on Kyosuke's part.

In front of everyone else... Madoka still has to be the "big sister" and take care of everything. She is even taking care of Koto, taking her place on the surf board. And, Kyosuke, fortunately, has seen her vulnerable side, so knows that he really DOES need to protect her. Good thing, too.

-TC

Amasawa

08-21-2006, 12:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
vol4 chap 2 "I'm Sorry I'm Indecisive!"

...Madoka is just being nice(and doesn't suck her finger! What the hell was that about anyway isn't that only snake bites? /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif )

[/ QUOTE ]
We were discussing this earlier. I think this is a Japanese tradition. It shows up in other anime, such as Mononoke. I think it has something to do with saliva having anti-bacterial properties.

[ QUOTE ]

As for the tv episode(I hadn't commented yet) it's interesting the anime decided to make the girls actually confront Kyousuke already and add that little flash back,

[/ QUOTE ]
It is interesting that the childhood flashback is not in the manga. Hikaru wanting what Madoka has and Madoka deciding to give it to her, colors the entire series. That makes it a major scene for the anime.

[ QUOTE ]
I gotta admit though while Madoka looked great in her towel that whole scene was really corny, didn't we already see Madoka's house sits back away from the street and yet he could see right in from a public phone, that's right in front of her house????

[/ QUOTE ]
Kyosuke probably used his power to move the phone booth there so he could watch the window while he called. He's getting pretty powerful, rearranging reality. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
And didn't Madoka getting Master to lie seem really out of character for her to anybody else and for him? He's usually giving his sly comments to get Madoka and Kyousuke together, maybe the anime writers felt they needed to speed up the relationship or build some tension?

And oh yeah what is up with the tree in Abcd?

[/ QUOTE ]
Potted Ficus with the pot sunk into the floor, perhaps?

[ QUOTE ]
And where did those swimsuit pictures come from? /images/graemlins/knowital.gif (must have been intern week for the writing staff at the anime)

[/ QUOTE ]

The swimsuits are from Ep. 8 - You're smiling! A "Shutter Chance" at the Beach. There has been some debate as to whether Madoka would take a swimsuit when going along to protect Hikaru.

KK1

08-21-2006, 12:44 AM

Sorry, I had to bring this over (with the manga comparisons I'm slow /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif), oh and this isn't in the manga either. I love the animation in this episode everything is just so well drawn the animation really took a step up. It seems like the anime team had such a fun time with the Graduate epsiode they decided to do Close Encounters too /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif (must have been some movie junkies at Studio Peirot) Anyway the story isn't the greatest but seems to follow a formula the anime has developed, Madoka and Kyousuke share a moment, Hikaru messes it up, Madoka gets screwed over by Kyousuke, Madoka has her delinquent past but Kyousuke keeps her from returning to it and Kyousuke has to go all out to get back on her good side. I liked the iconic imagery when Kyousuke was looking in the familiar spots, the stairs(surprised he wasn't counting the steps again) the swings, I guess they had to make him go to the arcade instead of the club since it was daytime. Then from the Graduate episode the bike again(wasn't it red before?) The only thing that wasn't the same was Kyousuke wasn't acting on jumping to conclusions he really screwed up this time. The only thing I didn't like is that in these anime original episodes they keep having Kyousuke go so far out of his way in his devotion to Madoka (and he does absolutely nothing like that for Hikaru) how is this not winning Madoka over yet? It's so blatantly obvious he would do anything not to lose her already, how does the relationship not move forward? In the manga it still really is outwardly ambiguous who Kyousuke likes.

Amasawa

08-21-2006, 01:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Hey, it's the Orange Lagoon! Or not...at any rate, Madoka and Kyosuke finally get a chance to be themselves without the other elements popping in at all times.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like to point out that many people incorrectly identify the Kyosuke's comment about "that movie" in this episode as being a reference to "The Blue Lagoon". In reality, it is a reference to "Paradise", which had Ms. Cates in it, Madoka's character design model.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't know that. Never saw that flick. Darn, not in Netflix. imdb says it is a Canadian film, but the only thing Amazon shows are Korean imports from other sellers. Is that a Korean bootleg of a Canadian film?

Actually, never saw anything with Ms. Cates in it. Was she really the model for Madoka? I guess I must have missed some good films. Recommendations for other than Paradise?

[ QUOTE ]

Just some random thoughts on the episode.

What luck that Hikaru and Yusaku got paired off. Madoka, of course, would not have objected. I wonder if Hikaru tried to change it up after they drew straws, though. She seems the type, so I'm wondering how the pairs actually ended up correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps Kyosuke tampered with the draw. On the other hand, there was a 50% chance for this pairing.

[ QUOTE ]

Again, Madoka sees Kyosuke do something exceptional, rowing the boat with superhuman power to get them to the island, then sees that he's exhausted. Not to mention the deal with the cliff. I wonder if she had seen the rock jutting out that they SHOULD have hit.

[/ QUOTE ]
Kyosuke was trying to keep the rowing from looking exceptional, and Madoka did comment about him putting on a spurt of energy. I think she didn't suspect anything about that effort.

Kyosuke had her head cradled in his arms as they fell. She might not have seen it. Her comment later about him being an idiot for jumping with her seems to indicate she thought it was luck that saved them.

That just leaves the question of what was Madoka doing while Kyosuke was attempting to transport to shore, and did he have to swim back?

[ QUOTE ]

I always liked this episode for the great joy that Madoka and Kyosuke have playing around on the island. They seem to have completely forgotten about Hikaru and Yuusaku. That somewhat bothered me, them not being worried that they had gotten somewhere safely.

[/ QUOTE ]
Madoka does express that concern at one point, but Kyosuke makes a joke about the tough Yusaku being with her.

I like the episode for the time they have together, and for the tropical island aspect. I have good memories of the Bahamas and Hawaii, and spent a lot of time sailing in So. California so the tropical paradise thing appeals to me.

[ QUOTE ]

But... This is one of the first indications that Madoka wants to build their memories together slowly. She asks Kyosuke to forget about the night they first worked together, as she doesn't want HIM to remember her in that light, rather than the new memories. I think she may be worried that he will think ill of her.

[/ QUOTE ]
That was sure a great opportunity to build memories.

She seems to worry a lot about that comment. Since she is changing her persona for a certain someone, some of the fragments of her old persona still haunt her -- that one in particular. When she made that comment did she not know Hikaru was coming to pick her up?

The problem with this reference to it is that it didn't happen on the first night they worked together, It happened on the last night. Kyosuke says earlier that the vacation is over before he realized it. The celebration where Madoka calls him a goddie-two-shoes was celebrating the conclusion of Kyosuke working there, since he was only going to work for the duration of the holiday week. This anime crew needed a better "script girl".

[ QUOTE ]

And... Once again, Hikaru shows up at the wrong moment. What kind of moron lets a 12 year old girl on a search helicopter?

-TC

[/ QUOTE ]

An anime director? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Poor Kyosuke gets quite puzzled and concerned when his first attempt to kiss her gets out maneuvered. While the appearance of the helicopter would have been very frustrating, at least he knows that she would have kissed him that time.

KK1

08-21-2006, 02:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Hey, it's the Orange Lagoon! Or not...at any rate, Madoka and Kyosuke finally get a chance to be themselves without the other elements popping in at all times.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like to point out that many people incorrectly identify the Kyosuke's comment about "that movie" in this episode as being a reference to "The Blue Lagoon". In reality, it is a reference to "Paradise", which had Ms. Cates in it, Madoka's character design model.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't know that. Never saw that flick. Darn, not in Netflix. imdb says it is a Canadian film, but the only thing Amazon shows are Korean imports from other sellers. Is that a Korean bootleg of a Canadian film?

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's Blue Lagoon, while Paradise was more popular it doesn't take place on an island, and in the manga's narration Kyousuke even mentions how it's like the movie on an island .(the manga review is coming as soon as I have time to watch this episode, there alot to this story not in the anime)
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Actually, never saw anything with Ms. Cates in it. Was she really the model for Madoka? I guess I must have missed some good films. Recommendations for other than Paradise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and you've never seen Fast Times at Ridgemont High? /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif Her fantasy scene from that is a classic /images/graemlins/noseblee.gif it's pretty much what made her famous. I like Gremlins too but all her nice hair is gone. I can't think of too much else she did besides those (and except for a a couple semi nude scenes with Ms Cates, Paradise is a really lame movie, unless you want to watch Willie Ames in a loin cloth for an hour)

KK1

08-21-2006, 04:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
This story isn't in the manga, I think the foreboding dream may be a anime creation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope I found it it's in vol 5 chap 4 "A Premonition Dream, One More Time!"

Similar except Hikaru doesn't come to school at all(she fakes it so she doesn't have to do homework) but in trying to overhear Madoka talking to Yuusaku about it with the power he only gets bits of the coversation and gets the wrong idea and runs out of school to Hikaru's(of course in the manga he doesn't know where she lives but runs into her at the arcade and they have a date). Yuusaku is never there and they're never at Hikaru's house or a restaurant, Hikaru does get sleepy from medicine she mentions her Mom gave to her (she doesn't o d herself like the anime)but it's on the bench in the park, of course Kyousuke freaks out and confesses his love and all that like the anime but Hikaru's grumbling tummy gives away she's not dying and the twist is Kyousuke realizes the dream he had is happening reverse to reality(so he finally realizes she's not dying but is going to kiss him since that was first) of course this happens after they are on their way home and just as he sees Madoka and Yuusaku walking home from school together(and they see the kiss he gets on the cheek) and it ends with Madoka walking away and Yuusaku walking towards them ready to do some pounding.

Natsume_Maya

08-21-2006, 08:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
But... This is one of the first indications that Madoka wants to build their memories together slowly. She asks Kyosuke to forget about the night they first worked together, as she doesn't want HIM to remember her in that light, rather than the new memories. I think she may be worried that he will think ill of her.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like that scene - adds a bit of depth to their relationship. She'd like to take back what she said, but she also tells him that that was the first time she'd ever asked something like that, which is significant too.

I thought the scene where they're lying on the beach as the sand castle slowly disintergrates under the tide was interesting too. Kyosuke scrapes a handful of sand in his hand, and in the quiet of that scene, it's as if he wants the time the two of them are spending on the island to last forever, but the sands (of time) keep trickling out between his fingers.

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
The problem with this reference to it is that it didn't happen on the first night they worked together, It happened on the last night. Kyosuke says earlier that the vacation is over before he realized it. The celebration where Madoka calls him a goddie-two-shoes was celebrating the conclusion of Kyosuke working there, since he was only going to work for the duration of the holiday week. This anime crew needed a better "script girl".

[/ QUOTE ]

I hadn't noticed that. Could it have been something mixed up in translation to English?

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Hey, it's the Orange Lagoon! Or not...at any rate, Madoka and Kyosuke finally get a chance to be themselves without the other elements popping in at all times.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like to point out that many people incorrectly identify the Kyosuke's comment about "that movie" in this episode as being a reference to "The Blue Lagoon". In reality, it is a reference to "Paradise", which had Ms. Cates in it, Madoka's character design model.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know that. Never saw that flick. Darn, not in Netflix. imdb says it is a Canadian film, but the only thing Amazon shows are Korean imports from other sellers. Is that a Korean bootleg of a Canadian film?

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's Blue Lagoon, while Paradise was more popular it doesn't take place on an island, and in the manga's narration Kyousuke even mentions how it's like the movie on an island .

[/ QUOTE ]

AnimEigo's liner notes state:
This is either a reference to the famous Hollywood movie "The Blue Lagoon," the 1980 film with Brooke Shields, or its knockoff, "Paradise," from 1982, which featured Phoebe Cates (whose figure, as was mentioned previously, was the inspiration for Madoka's). Although the reference in the episode isn't clear, Kyosuke is thinking of the latter film.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Actually, never saw anything with Ms. Cates in it. Was she really the model for Madoka? I guess I must have missed some good films. Recommendations for other than Paradise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and you've never seen Fast Times at Ridgemont High? /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif Her fantasy scene from that is a classic /images/graemlins/noseblee.gif it's pretty much what made her famous. I like Gremlins too but all her nice hair is gone. I can't think of too much else she did besides those

[/ QUOTE ]

IIRC she was also in the old TV mini-series Lace (based on the novel by Shirley Conran), where she played a porn star /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

KK1

08-21-2006, 08:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Hey, it's the Orange Lagoon! Or not...at any rate, Madoka and Kyosuke finally get a chance to be themselves without the other elements popping in at all times.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like to point out that many people incorrectly identify the Kyosuke's comment about "that movie" in this episode as being a reference to "The Blue Lagoon". In reality, it is a reference to "Paradise", which had Ms. Cates in it, Madoka's character design model.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know that. Never saw that flick. Darn, not in Netflix. imdb says it is a Canadian film, but the only thing Amazon shows are Korean imports from other sellers. Is that a Korean bootleg of a Canadian film?

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's Blue Lagoon, while Paradise was more popular it doesn't take place on an island, and in the manga's narration Kyousuke even mentions how it's like the movie on an island .

[/ QUOTE ]

AnimEigo's liner notes state:
This is either a reference to the famous Hollywood movie "The Blue Lagoon," the 1980 film with Brooke Shields, or its knockoff, "Paradise," from 1982, which featured Phoebe Cates (whose figure, as was mentioned previously, was the inspiration for Madoka's). Although the reference in the episode isn't clear, Kyosuke is thinking of the latter film.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny I guess Animeigo didn't read the manga either /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Njr Scrawl

08-21-2006, 10:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What, like: "Madoka, my sisters are at the pool with Hatta and Komatsu. Excuse me while I magically transport back to protect them."?

[/ QUOTE ]

No!

I was suggesting he could have excused himself, without saying how he would get there. (Though I don't know how much distance between pool & library).

Or he could have asked Madoka to postpone their revision & come with him to the pool, then they could have gone together.

Njr Scrawl

08-21-2006, 10:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yea, having a large wave arriving according to the calendar schedule is really a stretch

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless it was a seasonal wave. High tides in certain places bringing large waves is not unknown. Not just from seasonal weather, but also due to the gravitational pull of the Moon.

Njr Scrawl

08-21-2006, 10:49 AM

Full of chemistry between Madoka & Kyosuke. Madoka I think realises
how much she is liking Kyosuke & her friendship is turning to
fondness, though not love quite yet. Very telling that she wanted him
to forget (what she considers embarassing) her slightly boozy request
to stay over after their first night working together at Abcb Café, as
they have become closer since then - with better memories.

Madoka only knows that Kyosuke risked his life to help her. Big
points in her book for acting as a big brother to her! (Kyosuke would have done the same for anyone though). Madoka is probably a bit ashamed that her impatience put herself & someone else in danger.

Most important gesture in this episode is the contact kiss when they're sharing the last apple & Madoka bites over Kyosuke's bite. Its not just gratitude or friendliness. This IMO is a big leap forward in cementing their affections - more for Madoka perhaps. I think what happened is the end of KOR TV Act 1. A new level of emotion has been reached.

Njr Scrawl

08-21-2006, 11:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing I didn't like is that in these anime original episodes they keep having Kyousuke go so far out of his way in his devotion to Madoka (and he does absolutely nothing like that for Hikaru) how is this not winning Madoka over yet? It's so blatantly obvious he would do anything not to lose her already, how does the relationship not move forward? In the manga it still really is outwardly ambiguous who Kyousuke likes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh Madoka likes him OK, & is getting fonder as we're seeing. But she's also capricious & likes playing cat & mouse with his feelings.

Kyosuke is a willing mouse however, & feels flattered & reassured when he's getting attention from Madoka. Its also almost Madoka emotionally tasking Kyosuke, like a princess wanting acts of devotion from her wooing prince-to-be to gain gradual favour/emotional enslavement. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Manga & anime styles have to be different due to media limitations. What makes KOR anime so appealing, is its the superb in-character voice acting from its excellent seiyuus, who give so much character depth & feeling with their voices to relativey simple, though attractive, character designs.

From reading your narratives on the manga so far, there are definitely scenes that would have enhanced the anime. But only as additions, not substituting. (And nothing is worth losing Jingoro for!)

Amasawa

08-21-2006, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Most important gesture in this episode is the contact kiss when they're sharing the last apple & Madoka bites over Kyosuke's bite. Its not just gratitude or friendliness. This IMO is a big leap forward in cementing their affections - more for Madoka perhaps. I think what happened is the end of KOR TV Act 1. A new level of emotion has been reached.

[/ QUOTE ]

I took that as an invitation for what would have been their first kiss, had the helicopter not arrived.

Madoka out-maneuvered Kyosuke’s first attempt (eroding sand castle and fist full of sand scene), but after the fall from the cliff she has changed her mind. She is looking at him when she takes the bite of the apple in a way that makes me think it is an invitation to try again for a kiss.

Njr Scrawl

08-21-2006, 05:21 PM

I agree. And if the helicopter had arrived without any passengers, they would have had a quick kiss - probably being very embarassed afterwards. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

Hikaru might have been allowed onboard to help identify the pair. That island probably had campers & other lovers staying overnight in the past. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

plaidwolf

08-21-2006, 05:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Full of chemistry between Madoka & Kyosuke. Madoka I think realises
how much she is liking Kyosuke & her friendship is turning to
fondness, though not love quite yet. Very telling that she wanted him
to forget (what she considers embarassing) her slightly boozy request
to stay over after their first night working together at Abcb Café, as
they have become closer since then - with better memories.

Madoka only knows that Kyosuke risked his life to help her. Big
points in her book for acting as a big brother to her! (Kyosuke would have done the same for anyone though). Madoka is probably a bit ashamed that her impatience put herself & someone else in danger.

Most important gesture in this episode is the contact kiss when they're sharing the last apple & Madoka bites over Kyosuke's bite. Its not just gratitude or friendliness. This IMO is a big leap forward in cementing their affections - more for Madoka perhaps. I think what happened is the end of KOR TV Act 1. A new level of emotion has been reached.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what made KOR so enjoyable for me....so much interpersonal byplay between the characters that you have to rewatch a few times and even then, you arent sure you are getting it all...I completely missed Kurumi getting felt up by Hatta (if Kyoske saw that, i think more than words would have flown...

What i think also makes this series work for me is not just the seyiuu adding those little vocal touches that make the characters real, but the animators are able to do things with the eyes that lend REAL emotional depth....

While the plot device of misunderstanding seemes to be a bit overdone throughout the series, Kyoske's perpetual dithering makes it more believable than it might otherwise be...i can't think of too many 15 year old guys who would handle the Hikaru/Madoka triangle much better...i sure couldnt have done any better way back then!

But watching the tough girl who wants to be soft and domesticated with her buddy, the soft-hearted girl who wants to be tough...

One last aside......i laughed out loud when Kyoske worried not that Kurumi would be attacked by a pervert....but by what SHE would do to the pervvie...

(Whoever marries HER better make sure their life insurance is all paid up BEFORE the "I Do's!" Nanami would be the safer bride!)

Amasawa

08-21-2006, 05:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
What i think also makes this series work for me is not just the seyiuu adding those little vocal touches that make the characters real, but the animators are able to do things with the eyes that lend REAL emotional depth....

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, I was noticing that as well. As simple as the character designs are, they do an excellent job with the eyes. The emotional impact in KOR has a lot to do with the eyes. Try and recall Hikaru's look when she is angry at Kyosuke.

It is Madoka's green eyes that really make her enchanting.

Amasawa

08-21-2006, 09:07 PM

Another first for this episode, IIRC, is the indication that Madoka is getting annoyed with Hikaru getting in her way with Kyosuke. The very last scene (turns into the ending snapshot) starts out with Kyosuke and Madoka happily walking together. Hikaru attacks Kyosuke from behind and clamps onto him. Madoka keeps walking, runs her and through her hair, and a very annoyed expression can be seen on Madoka's face.

Shsway

08-21-2006, 10:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
I always liked this episode for the great joy that Madoka and Kyosuke have playing around on the island.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's so great to see them play like two children, which definitely makes bonding with someone inescapable and deeply satisfying. It's the best alternative to the more serious or intense games played by an established couple.

[ QUOTE ]
And... Once again, Hikaru shows up at the wrong moment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but the visual was kind of cute.

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Kyosuke was trying to keep the rowing from looking exceptional, and Madoka did comment about him putting on a spurt of energy. I think she didn't suspect anything about that effort.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. He handled the whole thing fairly slyly. Plus, she was probably distracted by his manliness in the moment. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]
That just leaves the question of what was Madoka doing while Kyosuke was attempting to transport to shore, and did he have to swim back?

[/ QUOTE ]

She says that she wanted to check out what was on the other side of the rocks she was climbing. Maybe to see if there was something they could use there, or perhaps to verify that there was no one or nothing else on the island.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
But... This is one of the first indications that Madoka wants to build their memories together slowly. She asks Kyosuke to forget about the night they first worked together, as she doesn't want HIM to remember her in that light, rather than the new memories.

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem with this reference to it is that it didn't happen on the first night they worked together, It happened on the last night. Kyosuke says earlier that the vacation is over before he realized it. The celebration where Madoka calls him a goddie-two-shoes was celebrating the conclusion of Kyosuke working there, since he was only going to work for the duration of the holiday week.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad that someone else caught that. /images/graemlins/happy.gif Continuity, KOR writers, continuity!

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
I thought the scene where they're lying on the beach as the sand castle slowly disintergrates under the tide was interesting too. Kyosuke scrapes a handful of sand in his hand, and in the quiet of that scene, it's as if he wants the time the two of them are spending on the island to last forever, but the sands (of time) keep trickling out between his fingers.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, the sand also represents Madoka's barriers coming down - it crumbles and gets washed away with the ocean a few times, throughout these scenes up until the end of the "indirect/contact kiss" moment.

The sand running through Kyo's fingers specifically feels like a visual of his wasted opportunity (not his fault), to kiss Madoka, as they laid together in that shade.

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
While the plot device of misunderstanding seemes to be a bit overdone throughout the series, Kyoske's perpetual dithering makes it more believable than it might otherwise be...i can't think of too many 15 year old guys who would handle the Hikaru/Madoka triangle much better...i sure couldnt have done any better way back then!

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's a point that usually gets lost in favor of deriding a relatively good guy who is both trying to win favor and earnestly attempting not to hurt anyone involved. As we'll see later, this is both impossible and inevitable, which is a major point of the series. But yeah, I challenge most people to handle this more honestly, or to really consider whether they actually could have, at that age. I know that I, for one, was a spectacular failure in this sort of situation.

Not much else to add, except to say that I really liked the visual, right at the beginning of the ep, of Kyo and Yu fishing together, while the girls engaged in the "wilder", jet-skiing activity (Madoka's playful smile is amazing in that scene).

What did you guys think of the mermaid scene? I personally found her using her pinky finger to help Kasuga breathe a bit unique, even conservative for a fantasy.

Shsway

08-21-2006, 11:16 PM

With the setting apparently being a compulsory class outing(?) this episode contains actual conflict between the girls, ass-kicking...and short skirts.

Amasawa

08-22-2006, 12:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
That just leaves the question of what was Madoka doing while Kyosuke was attempting to transport to shore, and did he have to swim back?

[/ QUOTE ]

She says that she wanted to check out what was on the other side of the rocks she was climbing. Maybe to see if there was something they could use there, or perhaps to verify that there was no one or nothing else on the island.

[/ QUOTE ]
Kyosuke didn't notice her climbing until he walks up the beach (presumably after swimming back from his transport attempt). So what did he think she was doing while he transported?

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
I thought the scene where they're lying on the beach as the sand castle slowly disintergrates under the tide was interesting too. Kyosuke scrapes a handful of sand in his hand, and in the quiet of that scene, it's as if he wants the time the two of them are spending on the island to last forever, but the sands (of time) keep trickling out between his fingers.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me, the sand also represents Madoka's barriers coming down - it crumbles and gets washed away with the ocean a few times, throughout these scenes up until the end of the "indirect/contact kiss" moment.

[/ QUOTE ]
There are a lot of sand references. I can see the eroding sand castle as symbolizing barriers between them. She builds the castle. Kyosuke, playing some hopscotch sort of game, trips and causes her to knocked down some of the castle. Madoka scowls and then forgives him. That seems to parallel some of the relationship events in the episode, if not the series.

[ QUOTE ]

The sand running through Kyo's fingers specifically feels like a visual of his wasted opportunity (not his fault), to kiss Madoka, as they laid together in that shade.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure about the sand in the hand. Kyosuke grabs some sand just before his first attempt to kiss Madoka. It seemed to have something to do with a decision that needed courage. An opportunity grabbed, but it slipped through his fingers.

Madoka is picking up sand and letting it fall through her fingers when they are sitting on the beach right after the fall. She was calling him foolish for risking his life, but Kyosuke knows that wasn't really what she was feeling. So, what does the sand mean when it slips through Madoka's fingers? Perhaps it symbolizes something. Perhaps it is just something you do while sitting on the beach.

[ QUOTE ]

What did you guys think of the mermaid scene? I personally found her using her pinky finger to help Kasuga breathe a bit unique, even conservative for a fantasy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume there is some folklore about southern island fairies (Kami?) that Japanese viewers would know about. Kyosuke sees Madoka bathing nude under the waterfall and claims to mistake her for a fairy. This sends him into a daydream about swimming with her. I noticed that while Madoka is in a freshwater pool, Kyosuke's daydream has tropical (saltwater) coral in the background. I wasn't sure whether this vision had something to do with his powers, or not.

What about that blue lizard on the tree? Is that some indigenous southern island Gecko? Or, something made up by the animators? Anyone know? There seem to a number of restaurants and bars called the Blue Gecko...

Amasawa

08-22-2006, 12:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
With the setting apparently being a compulsory class outing(?) this episode contains actual conflict between the girls, ass-kicking...and short skirts.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the tennis camp was optional, but not quite what they expected when they signed up.

I don't know if I'd consider it actual conflict between Madoka and Hikaru. Madoka tells Hikaru soothing things that don't turn out to come true, but was it with intent to deceive? Didn't seem like it. She may have just said them to calm Hikaru down and she may have believed they would turn out as she said. On the other hand, Madoka does seem to have a little less patience for Hikaru's obsession.

If Madoka didn't notice Kyosuke staring at her cleavage in the library (a few episodes ago), she cannot have missed his staring at her breasts in this episode. Any closer and he would have had a mouthful. /images/graemlins/shy00000.gif

Madoka is pouring it on with her "tennis lessons" for Kyosuke. No wonder Hikaru is upset. That isn't the stand-offish Madoka she knows.

I chuckled at the scene where Hikaru is overjoyed that Kyosuke is saying her name in his sleep when actually he is dreaming about being strangled by her. His confusion about the dream changing to a kiss was also amusing. Kyosuke seems to have moved from being indecisive about who he likes, to not knowing what to do about Hikaru's attention.

KK1

08-22-2006, 02:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:

What about that blue lizard on the tree? Is that some indigenous southern island Gecko? Or, something made up by the animators? Anyone know? There seem to a number of restaurants and bars called the Blue Gecko...

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny I know this but there are lots of little blue geckos native to Japan. And actually the Manga says where they are Ooshima(at least that's where they start what little island they row to I don't know)
http://www.edutraveller.com/jp/en/places/ooshima.html

Njr Scrawl

08-22-2006, 01:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Another first for this episode, IIRC, is the indication that Madoka is getting annoyed with Hikaru getting in her way with Kyosuke. The very last scene (turns into the ending snapshot) starts out with Kyosuke and Madoka happily walking together. Hikaru attacks Kyosuke from behind and clamps onto him. Madoka keeps walking, runs her and through her hair, and a very annoyed expression can be seen on Madoka's face.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its Hikaru's launches & physical clinging, more than her shrill "Darling" that gets to me & makes me cringe empathically with/for Kyosuke. Worse is occassions when he's dragged away from Madoka by Komatsu & Hatta.

Times seeing Madoka walk away angered is when Kyosuke must be exercising extreme self control. The fear of what stupid act Hikaru would do if he rejected her (Hikaru), & how Madoka might react in those circumstances probably helps him act cool at least - in those cases his nervy narrative afterwards is important to help understand his state of mind as well. Kyosuke's foreboding dreams are all of losing Madoka - his fear worked its way into his sub-conscious, its no wonder he's careful.

Madoka is not blameless though, as she make sly taunts, quietly spoken, but calculated to twang Kyosuke's nerves. Sometimes I think her treatment of Kyosuke is revenge against males generally...maybe that's too harsh /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Natsume_Maya

08-22-2006, 01:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Another first for this episode, IIRC, is the indication that Madoka is getting annoyed with Hikaru getting in her way with Kyosuke. The very last scene (turns into the ending snapshot) starts out with Kyosuke and Madoka happily walking together. Hikaru attacks Kyosuke from behind and clamps onto him. Madoka keeps walking, runs her and through her hair, and a very annoyed expression can be seen on Madoka's face.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm never sure what Madoka's annoyed about in those sorts of situations: Kyosuke for not making a firm decision about Hikaru, Hikaru for getting in the way, the situation in general?

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
What did you guys think of the mermaid scene? I personally found her using her pinky finger to help Kasuga breathe a bit unique, even conservative for a fantasy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I noticed that scene, but forgot to mention it. I was wondering whether the use of the pinky was supposed to allude to nampa (girl hunting)...?

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
I'm not sure about the sand in the hand. Kyosuke grabs some sand just before his first attempt to kiss Madoka. It seemed to have something to do with a decision that needed courage. An opportunity grabbed, but it slipped through his fingers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that I think about it, that seems the best interpretation of that scene.

Njr Scrawl

08-22-2006, 01:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
With the setting apparently being a compulsory class outing(?) this episode contains actual conflict between the girls, ass-kicking...and short skirts.

[/ QUOTE ]

New season & the animation looks better. New opening & ending. I miss Jingoro's ear wiggle & tail swish but always like the orange kanji on the stylised black & white animation. The op & ending songs are less cheesecake & more sultry/intense - defining the progression in Kyosuke's & Madoka's relationship.

More chemistry! Especially Madoka's tutoring Kyosuke. Poise, body
language, body HEAT! They both start er..friendly, & by the time Hikaru "catches" them, both have a blush. Yep, Madoka too. :D

Kyosukes's thoughts on the physical contact & its effect on him are so..human! For a TV series also very daring, but maybe the 80s were more permissive & KOR was considered what it is, a mid teen drama about growing up into adults mentally & physically.

Tough Madoka is also in this episode. She didn't take any part in the lakeside drama, unless maybe she rescued Kitakata off-screen.

But what went on at the hut was curious between the 2 girls. Hikaru
wanting more comfort from Madoka than she got. Madoka sympathetic, yet staying cool. The foundations for movie 1 begin to build - start of KOR TV Act II.

When Kitakata stands Hikaru up (presumably) to make a move on Madoka, Madoka who was angry at herself more than anyone IMO, not only flung him away, but picked him up & threw him downstairs. You can almost hear her emotional tension crackling from wanting Kyosuke to herself more than ever, & feeling guilty because of Hikaru's misery.

I love Madoka's older tough girl voice - used in fun on the island!
Hiromi Tsuru's action role voice as used for Lufy, Kiddy Phenil & Sonnet Barge among others.

Natsume_Maya

08-22-2006, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
If Madoka didn't notice Kyosuke staring at her cleavage in the library (a few episodes ago), she cannot have missed his staring at her breasts in this episode. Any closer and he would have had a mouthful. /images/graemlins/shy00000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's very obvious what he's looking at /images/graemlins/happy.gif I don't take that scene too seriously.

[ QUOTE ]
I chuckled at the scene where Hikaru is overjoyed that Kyosuke is saying her name in his sleep when actually he is dreaming about being strangled by her. His confusion about the dream changing to a kiss was also amusing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, there's a lot of comedy in the series which I enjoy, but which doesn't get discussed so much in these kinds of threads.

Other thoughts:

- New OP and new ED. The second OP is my favourite - great look and great song. As for the ED, I like the different animation style and the song's pretty good too /images/graemlins/happy.gif The "15 years old" intro at the start of each episode has now been replaced by a preview of the episode.

- I love the look on Komatsu's face (with jaw dropping) when Kyosuke returns Kitakata's serve (with Kurumi's help) /images/graemlins/happy.gif

- The shot of Hikaru when she's sitting on the jetty looks strange. The jetty has two levels, but something about the perspective or shading makes it look incongruous.

- It's interesting the comment Madoka makes to Kitakata as she throws him down the stairs about him being the type of guy who couldn't save a girl. Gives an insight into why it is she likes Kyosuke. (Though I note that Kyosuke had to use Power when rescuing Hikaru /images/graemlins/tongue.gif )

Njr Scrawl

08-22-2006, 01:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's interesting the comment Madoka makes to Kitakata as she throws him down the stairs about him being the type of guy who couldn't save a girl. Gives an insight into why it is she likes Kyosuke.

[/ QUOTE ]

It could be a reference to Kyosuke saving her on the island, which only Madoka (& Kyosuke) would understand. I'm sure Madoka believes she was saved by Kyosuke, from serious injury if not death. She already rates Kyosuke, & with being saved in the way she was, no other guy stands much chance now. Kyosuke is not Macho-man, nor does Madoka want him to be, but he is fairly selfless.

Anyone else think "Kitakata-tennis-teeth-Mitaka-tennis-teeth-hmmm"? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Amasawa

08-22-2006, 01:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:

What about that blue lizard on the tree? Is that some indigenous southern island Gecko? Or, something made up by the animators? Anyone know? There seem to a number of restaurants and bars called the Blue Gecko...

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny I know this but there are lots of little blue geckos native to Japan. And actually the Manga says where they are Ooshima(at least that's where they start what little island they row to I don't know)
http://www.edutraveller.com/jp/en/places/ooshima.html

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the link. Interesting to see where they are supposed to be.

Amasawa

08-22-2006, 02:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Times seeing Madoka walk away angered is when Kyosuke must be exercising extreme self control. The fear of what stupid act Hikaru would do if he rejected her (Hikaru), & how Madoka might react in those circumstances probably helps him act cool at least - in those cases his nervy narrative afterwards is important to help understand his state of mind as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess that's why he gets such an exasperated/helpless look on his face when this sort of thing happens.

Madoka has done a number of things to let Kyosuke know he isn't to hurt Hikaru's feelings, and that Hikaru isn't to know about their getting closer. Madoka has been (in previous episodes) quick to hide any sign of intimacy between her and Kyosuke when Hikaru shows up. She has also done and said things to Kyosuke to make him go along with keeping Hikaru happy.

[ QUOTE ]
Kyosuke's foreboding dreams are all of losing Madoka - his fear worked its way into his sub-conscious, its no wonder he's careful.

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't reacall if it has happened yet, but one his dreams is about Hikaru dying. That has nothing to do with losing Madoka. Another dream in the OVA is about Akane coming onto him.

[ QUOTE ]

Madoka is not blameless though, as she make sly taunts, quietly spoken, but calculated to twang Kyosuke's nerves. Sometimes I think her treatment of Kyosuke is revenge against males generally...maybe that's too harsh /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

There is some teasing/taunting there, but there is also Madoka's indecision on whether to accommodate Hikaru's desires, or her own. Sometimes she goes one way, sometimes the other, or she tries to have it both ways.

Amasawa

08-22-2006, 02:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Another first for this episode, IIRC, is the indication that Madoka is getting annoyed with Hikaru getting in her way with Kyosuke. The very last scene (turns into the ending snapshot) starts out with Kyosuke and Madoka happily walking together. Hikaru attacks Kyosuke from behind and clamps onto him. Madoka keeps walking, runs her and through her hair, and a very annoyed expression can be seen on Madoka's face.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm never sure what Madoka's annoyed about in those sorts of situations: Kyosuke for not making a firm decision about Hikaru, Hikaru for getting in the way, the situation in general?

[/ QUOTE ]
Or, she could be annoyed with herself for not being able to decide whether to support Hikaru, or follow her own desires. Perhaps she is just annoyed that a situation has arisen to remind her of this inner turbulence.

Amasawa

08-22-2006, 02:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
[ QUOTE ]
It's interesting the comment Madoka makes to Kitakata as she throws him down the stairs about him being the type of guy who couldn't save a girl. Gives an insight into why it is she likes Kyosuke.

[/ QUOTE ]

It could be a reference to Kyosuke saving her on the island, which only Madoka (& Kyosuke) would understand. I'm sure Madoka believes she was saved by Kyosuke, from serious injury if not death. She already rates Kyosuke, & with being saved in the way she was, no other guy stands much chance now. Kyosuke is not Macho-man, nor does Madoka want him to be, but he is fairly selfless.

[/ QUOTE ]
I took it to be a reference to the scene where Hikaru needed rescuing and Kitakata was helpless. It does also plays on several of the things that Madoka dislikes in guys.

She has a very negative reaction to guys coming onto girls. She really doesn't like hustlers. Recall the two guys she beats up by the pond at the park (when Kyosuke stands up Hikaru to go on a boat ride with Madoka). Also recall how "mellow" Madoka was in the restaurant (looking at the "plankton" on his face). This is right after Kyosuke has rescued the child that fell from the bridge. Just previous to that, he showed Madoka that he wasn't even close to being a smooth operator. His butt ends up in the pond when he attempts to disembark from the rowboat.

Combine Madoka's dislike of smooth operators with her witnessing Kitakata failing to rescue Hikaru. He should have been the one to save her, but Kyosuke had to do it. Now Kitakata is standing up Hikaru to come onto Madoka, and he attempts to use force. He has pushed all the right buttons to piss Madoka off.

Kitakata is the antithesis of Kyosuke. He is cool, a smooth talker, and confident, but helpless when a girl needs help. Kyosuke is awkward, not confident, but can be relied upon to come to one's aid. Madoka is the inverse of most girls. She isn't impressed by smooth confident guys. One wonders what happened to make her hate smooth operators so much?

Tomcat

08-22-2006, 10:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Madoka is pouring it on with her "tennis lessons" for Kyosuke. No wonder Hikaru is upset. That isn't the stand-offish Madoka she knows.

[/ QUOTE ]
While I don't think she was trying anything with Kyosuke before Hikaru showed up, I think that their continuing to "practice" his swing afterwards was her way of showing their closeness to Hikaru while still having a plausible excuse. Maybe.

At the very least, Kyosuke gets another pleasurable experience, in Madoka's almost embrace.

You do have to sort of feel sorry for Hikaru, though. While I doubt her motives for liking Kyosuke, she actually DOES like him. Too bad for her.

-TC

Tomcat

08-22-2006, 11:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
It could be a reference to Kyosuke saving her on the island, which only Madoka (& Kyosuke) would understand. I'm sure Madoka believes she was saved by Kyosuke, from serious injury if not death. She already rates Kyosuke, & with being saved in the way she was, no other guy stands much chance now. Kyosuke is not Macho-man, nor does Madoka want him to be, but he is fairly selfless.

[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder if Madoka remembers the previous time she was saved from a very likely lethal fall. I think this probably calculates into her like of Kyosuke, although she seems to have fainted after she started to fall, so wouldn't remember the whole thing. Certainly she knows that she was saved from possible death, and who saved her.

I think Madoka really highly respect people that risk their own lives for the benefit of others. Of course, that's not the only reason why she likes Kyosuke. He also accepts her for who she is, and that's going to be high on her list also.

-TC

Shsway

08-22-2006, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
I chuckled at the scene where Hikaru is overjoyed that Kyosuke is saying her name in his sleep when actually he is dreaming about being strangled by her.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thought whenever that scene rolled: would Hikaru actually have attempted to strangle him, had she not been there to hear him speak? This was, after all, a foreboding dream, right? /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
The op & ending songs are less cheesecake & more sultry/intense - defining the progression in Kyosuke's & Madoka's relationship.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true to a certain extent. I surely love "Orange Mystery" - it's my favorite OP song and accompanying animation for the series (Kyosuke makes an awesome drummer!) "My Sad Heart is Burning", however, never really got me going, despite being a fairly intense Wada Kanako number. The animation style is interesting enough, but the appearance of the 99 steps and the straw hat makes the viewing of it wonderful (well, it gives me the fuzzies). It works pretty well with just the white of the images and those solid colors in the background.

Speaking of colors, I also appreciate the orange credits on a blueish (not stright-out black and white), rendering of the cast and their world, in the OP.

I have always liked the inclusion of the episode teasers quite a bit.

[ QUOTE ]
I love Madoka's older tough girl voice - used in fun on the island!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's kinda sexy, yeah. Really, I love it when both Tsuru-san and Hara Eriko do it (it doesn't happen that often, relatively speaking, as they both tone themselves down around Kyosuke).

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Kyosuke's foreboding dreams are all of losing Madoka - his fear worked its way into his sub-conscious, its no wonder he's careful.

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't reacall if it has happened yet, but one his dreams is about Hikaru dying. That has nothing to do with losing Madoka. Another dream in the OVA is about Akane coming onto him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the "OMG, Hikaru is dying premonition" happens TWICE in this series, so we've already seen the first one. The second scenario happens in one of the last eps of the series, somewhere in the 40's (without looking, I'm going to guess ep. 45).

[ QUOTE ]
There is some teasing/taunting there, but there is also Madoka's indecision on whether to accommodate Hikaru's desires, or her own. Sometimes she goes one way, sometimes the other, or she tries to have it both ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Ayukawa just wouldn't be as wonderful if she were more selfish about her wants, right?

I actually want to write more about this ep, but I think I'll save it for tomorrow. In case I forget to ask, does anyone know who voices Kitakata-sempai in this ep?

Shsway

08-22-2006, 11:49 PM

We have got to take a vote for the worst episode title in this series, at the end of the overall discussion. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I am admittedly biased against this one. There didn't seem to be a point, a lot of tried and true elements get overused, and the cliches/forced tension make for a fairly tedious experience, at this stage in my viewing.

Amasawa

08-23-2006, 02:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
I chuckled at the scene where Hikaru is overjoyed that Kyosuke is saying her name in his sleep when actually he is dreaming about being strangled by her.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thought whenever that scene rolled: would Hikaru actually have attempted to strangle him, had she not been there to hear him speak? This was, after all, a foreboding dream, right? /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Not a foreboding dream, a rehash of his rescuing her from the pond. The dream happens after the rescue. Kyosuke has gone to bed early because he used most of his power during the tennis practice with Madoka. Then summoned what little was left to bring the boat to him while rescuing Hikaru. I got the impression that Hikaru was a difficult rescue. Often, people in Hikaru's situation panic and can be a danger to their rescuer. So, it wouldn't be surprising if Hikaru was inadvertently strangling Kyosuke in an attempt to hang on.

However, what puzzles me is that Hikaru has her hands on Kyosuke's collar as she leans over his sleeping form. It is at that moment that he calls out her name. Was she starting to choke him in his sleep because she was mad at him? She complained about him looking so happy in his sleep. Is that what triggered Kyosuke to dream about her strangling him?

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
The op & ending songs are less cheesecake & more sultry/intense - defining the progression in Kyosuke's & Madoka's relationship.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true to a certain extent. I surely love "Orange Mystery" - it's my favorite OP song and accompanying animation for the series (Kyosuke makes an awesome drummer!) "My Sad Heart is Burning", however, never really got me going, despite being a fairly intense Wada Kanako number. The animation style is interesting enough, but the appearance of the 99 steps and the straw hat makes the viewing of it wonderful (well, it gives me the fuzzies). It works pretty well with just the white of the images and those solid colors in the background.

[/ QUOTE ]
The new OP animation has a lot of texturing added. There are a great deal of fake film scratches added -- presumably to give it a nostagia effect. The other textures are a little too heavy-handed for my taste.

I like the band scenes. Madoka looks great playing guitar with a ponytail. Which reminds me of a scene in a previous episode where there is a great shot of her shadow while playing sax in her short shorts. The shadow is really iconic Madoka.

The classroom scene with the sax is interesting because they have it on the wrong desk. It does have a nostalgic feel to it though. The empty pool scene is completely lost on me. Perhaps if I had gone to a Japanese Jr. High it would mean something.

There are some haunting shots of Madoka looking lonely leaning against a wall, and on the steps of Abcb. Makes you want to go cheer her up, if you could cheer up a drawing. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]

Well, the "OMG, Hikaru is dying premonition" happens TWICE in this series, so we've already seen the first one. The second scenario happens in one of the last eps of the series, somewhere in the 40's (without looking, I'm going to guess ep. 45).

[/ QUOTE ]
The second one isn't a foreboding dream though. It is a creation of his sisters and grandfather.

Amasawa

08-23-2006, 03:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
We have got to take a vote for the worst episode title in this series, at the end of the overall discussion. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I am admittedly biased against this one. There didn't seem to be a point, a lot of tried and true elements get overused, and the cliches/forced tension make for a fairly tedious experience, at this stage in my viewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the point was to show that Kyosuke was still capable of indecision -- not all was cemented in the relationship with Madoka. They had to keep interest up to the end of the series. It would get boring if it was all smooth sailing, or just putting up with Hikaru. They needed to throw in a wild card.

Njr Scrawl

08-23-2006, 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
At the very least, Kyosuke gets another pleasurable experience, in Madoka's almost embrace.

[/ QUOTE ]

Madoka was definitely enjoying the "hug" as well. She was blushing without having seen Kyosuke's reddened complexion. Hikaru saw both though & while appearing naive, is not stupid. I'm sure she's getting more suspicious, especially as Kyosuke does not tell when he is going.

Njr Scrawl

08-23-2006, 01:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
We have got to take a vote for the worst episode title in this series, at the end of the overall discussion. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I am admittedly biased against this one. There didn't seem to be a point, a lot of tried and true elements get overused, and the cliches/forced tension make for a fairly tedious experience, at this stage in my viewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the point was to show that Kyosuke was still capable of indecision -- not all was cemented in the relationship with Madoka. They had to keep interest up to the end of the series. It would get boring if it was all smooth sailing, or just putting up with Hikaru. They needed to throw in a wild card.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Its an offbeat kind of story, but it has a few noteworthy aspects.

First, after the cosy closeness with Madoka of the last few episodes, Kyosuke's brain appears to be down in his groin again, over-ruling his memory. Had it been Hikaru, would he have acted the same? Also slightly disturbing, the girl is so like Minami in speech & with glasses!

Second, Madoka still thinks all men are treacherous scum deep down. She becomes protective big-sister/jilted girlfriend/avenger of womankind & has (correctly) little trust of Kyosuke. Goes hunting.

Third, having last episode almost emasculated (verbally) a smooth operator, Madoka is now primed & furious that Kyosuke seems to be in that mode - upsetting Hikaru, herself & appearing to take advantage of another young girl.

This is a sort of tragi-comic story & fits rights after #20 for situation & mood swing. Good to show there is still bumpy ground ahead, & I expect its needed to shake up audience expectations less than half way through the TV series.

Feelgood ending is terrific & all is OK in true KOR style.

Animation is very good in this episode. Switch to slo'mo' for the full screen close-up of Madoka's expression leading up to her slapping Kyosuke. Her whole face reflects her disappointment, dismay, disgust & fury. Replay again, its wonderful! /images/graemlins/knowital.gif

Amasawa

08-23-2006, 03:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
First, after the cosy closeness with Madoka of the last few episodes, Kyosuke's brain appears to be down in his groin again, over-ruling his memory.

[/ QUOTE ]
There is also Kyosuke's inability to stand up and say no. It has similarities to when he is supposed to be having lunch with Madoka and allows himself to be dragged away by Komatsu. He just can't say no to this girl's insistent requests.

[ QUOTE ]

Had it been Hikaru, would he have acted the same? Also slightly disturbing, the girl is so like Minami in speech & with glasses!

[/ QUOTE ]
Had Hikaru insisted he spend the day with her? Yes, he would have gone along. I don't know about the Manami resemblance. Guys to like girls who resemble their mother, and Manami must look something like their mother...

[ QUOTE ]

Second, Madoka still thinks all men are treacherous scum deep down. She becomes protective big-sister/jilted girlfriend/avenger of womankind & has (correctly) little trust of Kyosuke. Goes hunting.

[/ QUOTE ]
In the end, Kyosuke was trustworthy. He was the one who refused to fool around.

[ QUOTE ]

Third, having last episode almost emasculated (verbally) a smooth operator, Madoka is now primed & furious that Kyosuke seems to be in that mode - upsetting Hikaru, herself & appearing to take advantage of another young girl.

[/ QUOTE ]
She messed that guy up physically as well. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Madoka's flip-flop is interesting. She quickly goes from the man-hating mode to the protective big sister mode as soon as the girl reveals a vulnerability. What is interesting is that in the first mode it is all Kyosuke's fault. She pretty much ignores the girl with her wrath. Then, in protection mode, it is all about the girl. She pretty much ignores Kyosuke.

[ QUOTE ]

This is a sort of tragi-comic story & fits rights after #20 for situation & mood swing. Good to show there is still bumpy ground ahead, & I expect its needed to shake up audience expectations less than half way through the TV series.

Feelgood ending is terrific & all is OK in true KOR style.

Animation is very good in this episode. Switch to slo'mo' for the full screen close-up of Madoka's expression leading up to her slapping Kyosuke. Her whole face reflects her disappointment, dismay, disgust & fury. Replay again, its wonderful! /images/graemlins/knowital.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Madoka is rendered quite well and looks rather elegant in her anger. I also liked the country backgrounds in this episode.

BTW, what is the reason for the American jet fighter in the storm? Does that have some meaning? Or, is it a ubiquitous sight in the Japanese countryside? When travelling in the mountains of northern Wales there was an area where jet fighters often flew over during practice. Reminded me of that, but what was its purpose in this story?

Njr Scrawl

08-23-2006, 05:51 PM

I don't know what the meaning of an American jet was (back in the late 80s).

Pilots do practice low altitude flying. In the UK where I live its the RAF or Navy & I've seen US jets in Europe in Germany & Holland as well. Also helicopters & transport aircraft.

Perhaps in this story the jet symbolises Madoka's mood, or its put in to emphasise the emptiness of where the happenings occur, i.e not in a populated area. In Top Gun, there is a scene where Maverick (Tom Cruise) gets chased down by Charlie (Kelly McGillis) - or is that v.v?

Shsway

08-23-2006, 08:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
I think the point was to show that Kyosuke was still capable of indecision -- not all was cemented in the relationship with Madoka. They had to keep interest up to the end of the series. It would get boring if it was all smooth sailing, or just putting up with Hikaru. They needed to throw in a wild card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I know. I honestly can't remember what I thought the first time I watched this, but now it all seems so cheesy and insulting - especially when you know that there's no way that Kyosuke's really gonna go for it. Not just because of Madoka...it's just not his style. It would have been a bit out of character, given his old school values about a number of other things.

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
First, after the cosy closeness with Madoka of the last few episodes, Kyosuke's brain appears to be down in his groin again, over-ruling his memory.

[/ QUOTE ]

He seemed way more nervous than turned on though. And it is, like Amasawa said, another good example of Kyosuke's inability to put his foot down and outright refuse, when he's feeling especially uncertain about a situation.

[ QUOTE ]
Also slightly disturbing, the girl is so like Minami in speech & with glasses!

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I thought that the writers had intended her to be a Madoka clone of sorts, to make Kyosuke's attraction to the girl understandable. Well, I went by what I felt were some pretty obvious parallels to his first meeting with Madoka, when he first meets Oda Kumiko.

[ QUOTE ]
Feelgood ending is terrific & all is OK in true KOR style.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice enough, but I'm gonna be cold and say that I really didn't find myself caring very much about what happened to Oda, so the ending felt especially forced to me. I also kind of resented "My Little Girl" (my favorite piece of KOR BGM), being played in the background of that scene with the candles.

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Madoka's flip-flop is interesting. She quickly goes from the man-hating mode to the protective big sister mode as soon as the girl reveals a vulnerability. What is interesting is that in the first mode it is all Kyosuke's fault. She pretty much ignores the girl with her wrath. Then, in protection mode, it is all about the girl. She pretty much ignores Kyosuke.

[/ QUOTE ]

All true. While her anger was indeed not focused on Oda, I found Madoka's immediate, wholly sympathetic move wonderful to watch. She was strong, motherly and gentle, and it rocked.

[ QUOTE ]
Madoka is rendered quite well and looks rather elegant in her anger. I also liked the country backgrounds in this episode.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will admit that I also liked these quite a bit. As for Madoka's anger, she gives them such a look when she first sees them together (which is almost immediately after they've met). Wowch. She uses her badass voice on the other boys too...<3

Like you guys, I would also like to know what was up with that jet. I was so confused by it!

Some other things that I actually liked about the episode:

- Jingoro's flying around at the beginning was presented as something that one might see in a dream, I think. It's too bad that, later, we see Kurumi being a bit cruel in her manipulation of him, simply because she's bored
- I honestly found Kyo playing hooky from the "demonstrations" refreshing, as he can be such a square sometimes. Despite not hearing the appropriate sound effect, I did wonder whether his stone-skipping technique has been enhanced by the power
- Hatta's "cool and manly" voice (not something we're likely to hear again)
- I went and rewatched Ayukawa's "As soon as I find that idiot..." line to be sure that it had happened!
- The final conversation between Komatsu, Kyosuke and Hatta was particularly well-acted

Shsway

08-23-2006, 08:22 PM

Here are my leftover notes for this ep:

- I was fairly amused by Kasuga calling his "lucky 'smash'" a "home run"
- Things were especially overt and sexual here (wilting chocolate in Komatsu and Hatta's hands, on the bus, Kyo staring at Madoka's boob, the aforementioned short skirts...)
- Madoka's "Let's enjoy the game" line was fun (when she discovers that Kyo is apparently at the same playing level, I think)
- "Half-cocked" Hino (I believe this is what Komatsu calls him, when they learn that Yusaku is in "B" class alone)
- Kitakata's offer of a match, and the flower he gives Kyo, could easily be taken as outright flirtation
- "Breaking Heart" plays again, when the kids dance after dinner
- The new eyecatch just isn't as fun, musically or animation-wise
- Madoka no pantsu! But not the best instance in the series, just yet /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif /images/graemlins/shy10000.gif
- Watching Ayukawa take out the cowardly playboy was so very satisfying
- And just where did Madoka get all that beer? Dis she sneak it in? And she actually suggests "Drinking 'til dawn" with a thirteen-year-old girl???

Amasawa

08-23-2006, 09:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Yeah, I know. I honestly can't remember what I thought the first time I watched this, but now it all seems so cheesy and insulting - especially when you know that there's no way that Kyosuke's really gonna go for it. Not just because of Madoka...it's just not his style. It would have been a bit out of character, given his old school values about a number of other things.

[/ QUOTE ]
There were cheesy elements, but they didn't bug me that much. Having been through several serious operations I could understand how Oda felt, so that cliche worked on me.

I know the "cabin in the rain" cliche is overdone in Japan, but I can only recall the Tenchi Muyo version outside KOR.

Whether Kyo would have gone further is debatable. He came pretty close to kissing her until he saw the tear and was confused by it. He was certainly considering the idea of the "summer experience."

There is also one aspect of this episode that guys might relate to more than gals. That is the mystery of the cute girl coming onto you in a hurry. It really can be an emotional tear to be very attracted, but wondering what her agenda is.

Not knowing whether or not he had seen a tear wondering about the girls motives, are mainly what kept Kyosuke from going for it. It seemed to me that he wasn't really thinking of Madoka (until she appeared).

Shsway

08-23-2006, 11:29 PM

What will Kyosuke do, when it seems that Madoka may really be too experienced for him, and out of reach?

It's amusing to me that just after "...Wuthering Heights" comes the episode that is likely my favorite of the series. Really, watching this one tonight was such a warm, easy joy. An excellent capper to a pretty decent day.

Amasawa

08-23-2006, 11:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Here are my leftover notes for this ep:

- I was fairly amused by Kasuga calling his "lucky 'smash'" a "home run"

[/ QUOTE ]
I took that to mean that it was going "out of the park" so to speak -- a bad thing in tennis. Is that how you took it?

[ QUOTE ]

- Things were especially overt and sexual here (wilting chocolate in Komatsu and Hatta's hands, on the bus, Kyo staring at Madoka's boob, the aforementioned short skirts...)

[/ QUOTE ]
The chocolate was hilarious.

[ QUOTE ]

- Kitakata's offer of a match, and the flower he gives Kyo, could easily be taken as outright flirtation

[/ QUOTE ]
Seems like he'll go after anything, male, female... Good there weren't any animals around...

[ QUOTE ]

- "Breaking Heart" plays again, when the kids dance after dinner

[/ QUOTE ]
Hikaru is the lonely midnight girl again.

[ QUOTE ]

- And just where did Madoka get all that beer? Dis she sneak it in? And she actually suggests "Drinking 'til dawn" with a thirteen-year-old girl???

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps reverting back to their past "bad ass" personas as a way of patching things up between them. Madoka was probably aware that she was a large part of what Hikaru was upset about. So, she's going back to old bonds to make up for it. Madoka seems to have been familiar with alcohol for sometime, most likely Hikaru was part of it. Maybe Japan is different, but the KOR group seem to act more like I remember 16 and 17 year-old's acting, not 13-15's.

Amasawa

08-23-2006, 11:39 PM

What about the flowers in this episode? I don't know what kind of flower that is, but it shows up from beginning to end. Some flowers have special meaning in Japan. I wonder if this one does?

The opening scene features these flowers, and the ending snapshot is of one.

Oda puts one in her hair, and Kyosuke "deflowers" her when the fall down in the field.

Madoka finds the handkerchief among those flowers.

Oda puts her flower on her floating lantern.

Amasawa

08-23-2006, 11:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
What will Kyosuke do, when it seems that Madoka may really be too experienced for him, and out of reach?

[/ QUOTE ]

Poor Kyosuke feeling like he has been hit in the head with a hammer. IME, it is the pit of the stomach that suffers in situations like this.

In the "can't let the viewers get to relaxed about the Kyosuke/Madoka relationship" vein we get the inverse of the last episode. This time Kyosuke has to cope with Madoka seeming to fool around with another guy.

I liked the read thread (ribbon) jesture. Where was Hikaru when this happened? /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

I like the rock version of Madoka in a band, rather than this swing version. Her outfit in this one seems too prissy for an electric guitar.

Oh, and what do you all think of the lyrics that Madoka "penned"? "If a whisper is enough to turn your heart..." Is that how she sees Kyosuke -- being turned towards Hikaru by her sweet whisperings? Wait, when did Hikaru ever whisper?!

Madoka's shy glances at Kyosuke during this song are nice. We saw her hard side in the previous episode. Now it is time for her soft vulnerable side.

KK1

08-24-2006, 02:10 PM

plaidwolf

08-24-2006, 04:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Hey, it's the Orange Lagoon! Or not...at any rate, Madoka and Kyosuke finally get a chance to be themselves without the other elements popping in at all times.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like to point out that many people incorrectly identify the Kyosuke's comment about "that movie" in this episode as being a reference to "The Blue Lagoon". In reality, it is a reference to "Paradise", which had Ms. Cates in it, Madoka's character design model.

[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't know that. Never saw that flick. Darn, not in Netflix. imdb says it is a Canadian film, but the only thing Amazon shows are Korean imports from other sellers. Is that a Korean bootleg of a Canadian film?

Actually, never saw anything with Ms. Cates in it. Was she really the model for Madoka? I guess I must have missed some good films. Recommendations for other than Paradise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the fast times clip if you wanna see it, NSFW
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2746217

[/ QUOTE ]

*pictures Madoka walking on on Kyo in the middle of this....and REALLY letting him have it....once the dust settles, her telling him 'Ecchi! You are the worst!!!'

plaidwolf

08-24-2006, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
The op & ending songs are less cheesecake & more sultry/intense - defining the progression in Kyosuke's & Madoka's relationship.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true to a certain extent. I surely love "Orange Mystery" - it's my favorite OP song and accompanying animation for the series (Kyosuke makes an awesome drummer!) "My Sad Heart is Burning", however, never really got me going, despite being a fairly intense Wada Kanako number. The animation style is interesting enough, but the appearance of the 99 steps and the straw hat makes the viewing of it wonderful (well, it gives me the fuzzies). It works pretty well with just the white of the images and those solid colors in the background.

Speaking of colors, I also appreciate the orange credits on a blueish (not stright-out black and white), rendering of the cast and their world, in the OP.

I have always liked the inclusion of the episode teasers quite a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just as a question...who do you think was the fourth member in the band in the second opening? My vote says it was most likely Yuu...

Njr Scrawl

08-24-2006, 04:52 PM

I wondered what made Madoka decide to bring her saxophone along, considering its a group holiday, & she plays it alone. Perhaps for comfort, as she anticipated she might need it, correctly.

Madoka did get severe when she told Hikaru that running off in the
rain would cause trouble for everyone, second time she's said
something like that IIRC.

(BTW my DVD jumped back a chapter when it reached the end song for this episode, to the ligtning storm, & I had to jump forward using my remote)

Njr Scrawl

08-24-2006, 05:16 PM

One of my favourite episodes for Madoka's sexy-cute gypsy frock (which is the same as in the Akemi Takada pic on the OVA box) & Yukari's singing voice being Wada Kanako ("Salvia Flower").

Madoka is finally getting the message Kyosuke is interested in her more deeply than mere friendship. Her gloom that he might not come to the band's performance, & relief when he does shows plainly.

In this episode Kyosuke feels tempted by an older woman than Madoka, but maybe seduced is a better word. Yukari is very sexy!

These adult friends of Madoka's shed a little more light on her life before & away from Kyosuke & the school enviroment. Being talented, she might have met other musicians through her parents, or more likely, from the disco/club nightlife she seems familiar with. Might even tie-in with her "hooligan" days as well (& where she got to start drinking booze).

Njr Scrawl

08-24-2006, 05:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
The op & ending songs are less cheesecake & more sultry/intense - defining the progression in Kyosuke's & Madoka's relationship.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's true to a certain extent. I surely love "Orange Mystery" - it's my favorite OP song and accompanying animation for the series (Kyosuke makes an awesome drummer!) "My Sad Heart is Burning", however, never really got me going, despite being a fairly intense Wada Kanako number. The animation style is interesting enough, but the appearance of the 99 steps and the straw hat makes the viewing of it wonderful (well, it gives me the fuzzies). It works pretty well with just the white of the images and those solid colors in the background.

Speaking of colors, I also appreciate the orange credits on a blueish (not stright-out black and white), rendering of the cast and their world, in the OP.

I have always liked the inclusion of the episode teasers quite a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just as a question...who do you think was the fourth member in the band in the second opening? My vote says it was most likely Yuu...

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems most likely as he would be there near Hikaru.

Amasawa

08-24-2006, 05:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
*pictures Madoka walking on on Kyo in the middle of this....and REALLY letting him have it....once the dust settles, her telling him 'Ecchi! You are the worst!!!'

[/ QUOTE ]

If Hikaru walked in on Kyosuke doing this...

On the other hand, it would probably be Hatta that was doing...

Amasawa

08-24-2006, 06:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
Just as a question...who do you think was the fourth member in the band in the second opening? My vote says it was most likely Yuu...

[/ QUOTE ]

I've always thought that the guy in the cap playing guitar next to Madoka was Yuu.

Amasawa

08-24-2006, 06:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
I wondered what made Madoka decide to bring her saxophone along, considering its a group holiday, & she plays it alone. Perhaps for comfort, as she anticipated she might need it, correctly.

[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps she felt the need to keep practicing. Or, perhaps it was for her own entertainment/comfort. She was playing the same tune she plays when she is troubled about something.

[ QUOTE ]

Madoka did get severe when she told Hikaru that running off in the
rain would cause trouble for everyone, second time she's said
something like that IIRC.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think I've seen a number of situations in various anime where someone is being scolded or is apologizing for being sick or needing to be rescued. It is often something along the lines of, "Sorry for making everyone worry." Hikaru wouldn't stop when Yuu told her it was too dangerous, but Mother Madoka telling her not to cause trouble for others got her to comply. Poor Yuu, doesn't get the psychology right and is ineffectual. I thought Hikaru's response was well drawn and well acted.

[ QUOTE ]

(BTW my DVD jumped back a chapter when it reached the end song for this episode, to the ligtning storm, & I had to jump forward using my remote)

[/ QUOTE ]

Haven't had anything like that happen.

Amasawa

08-24-2006, 06:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
One of my favourite episodes for Madoka's sexy-cute gypsy frock (which is the same as in the Akemi Takada pic on the OVA box) & Yukari's singing voice being Wada Kanako ("Salvia Flower").
Yukari is hot during that performance, and I love Wada kanako. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Madoka is finally getting the message Kyosuke is interested in her more deeply than mere friendship. Her gloom that he might not come to the band's performance, & relief when he does shows plainly.

[/ QUOTE ]
I liked her expressions in those scenes. I also liked her revelation that Kyosuke probably saw her and Shuu coming out of the Candy Hotel and made the wrong assumption.

[ QUOTE ]

In this episode Kyosuke feels tempted by an older woman than Madoka, but maybe seduced is a better word. Yukari is very sexy!

[/ QUOTE ]
Yukari was relentless in her teasing of Kyosuke. Poor guy was at the receiving end of all her angst about being a music widow to Shuu.

I think Kyosuke was tempted by Yukari only because of what he thought Madoka had done. He was needing some consolation.

[ QUOTE ]

These adult friends of Madoka's shed a little more light on her life before & away from Kyosuke & the school enviroment. Being talented, she might have met other musicians through her parents, or more likely, from the disco/club nightlife she seems familiar with. Might even tie-in with her "hooligan" days as well (& where she got to start drinking booze).

[/ QUOTE ]

Shuu is a cousin, so music seems to run in the family. She may have been introduced to the nightlife by friends and family who played at various clubs.

KK1

08-25-2006, 02:58 AM

Man am I behind, I really liked this episode in some ways and didn't in others. This is an anime only episode and you can always pick them out because everyone in the cast is involved(who invited Yuusaku?) Kyousuke's screw up and redemption was good but Madoka really shines in this episode from the dress(at the library and her kimono later) to her thinking ahead to make the study date so they could go to the fireworks later ,though doesn't that make Madoka kinda sneaky, whereas Hikaru invited Madoka swimming and wanted her to go to the fireworks with everyone Madoka just wanted it to be her and Kyousuke. Though for the anime I can't see them moving in any other direction. Kyousuke's indecisiveness is taken to the limit until the end when I'm surprised they had him tell Hikaru he's not going(though we never get to hear his excuse, what could it have been to sooth the savage hikaru we got a look at?)

Things I didn't like were Hatta and Komatsu groping Kyousuke's sisters, how does he not beat the hell out of them, they even talk about feeling up Kurumi right in front of him. First of all this could never have happened anyway, like Kurumi wouldn't have used the power to help herself or keep Hatta away, though this whole episode seemed like an obligatory fan service fest, which sometimes is OK (like the quick glimpse of Madoka's see-thru shirt in the ep where Hikaru changed her image) but this ep was just way over the top in my opinion. Kyousuke's staring at Madoka's cleavage (did we really need the 5 close ups, where's the boiing noises?) which was drawn a little over the top as well (Madoka's more developed compared to the other girls but she doesn't have a big chest) first she has a clittle cleavage but when Kyousuke stares half her boob is hanging out.Oh well I just chalk that to the animators going all out, even Hikaru had a huge rack.
Other stuff, like giving Kyousuke a new power for convienience (do we even see him teleport something to himself ever again?) making Hikaru the nice one, and making Kyousuke be really stupid,he could tell Hikaru he can't go to the fireworks but not the pool, are a litlle annoying but what I expect when you try to do a little too much in one episode.

As far as the manga goes like I said this isn't in there but there is a very similar story where Master(he's even cooler in the manga) sets Kyousuke and Madoka up on another date by having Kyousuke help Madoka run the Abcd lunchstand they set up in the local amusement park. Later he's worried when Hikaru asks if there's someone else he likes because he hasn't spent any time with her lately so he agrees to go where ever she wants and of course it's the same amusement park he's agreed to help Madoka at (which by the way is a real place http://www.toshimaen.co.jp/index.html ), but he decides he can keep both of them away from each other since the park is so big and he'll use the power(see in the manga there's never really the 3 of them doing stuff together with Madoka tolerating Hikaru, in the manga Madoka usually gets mad). So he spends the whole day teleporting between the 2 of the them(he even leaves Hikaru on a roller coaster because she has her eyes shut the whole time) in the end though Hikaru was happy again, Madoka was mad because he left so often (is she a little brighter in the manga?) and accussed him of being a little boy who was sneaking off to have fun so she leaves him all the dishes at the stand and goes off herself since now it's her turn to play. But Kyousuke figures it's all right because he got away with keeping Hikaru happy and Madoka is only a little mad(and didn't suspect he was with Hikaru). Kinda different huh? That's why I think the anime goes too over the top in their original episodes, Kyousuke goes all out for Madoka but always leaves Hikaru high and dry, it's too obvious.

Njr Scrawl

08-25-2006, 06:04 AM

I missed the Shuu = cousin bit & some of Yukari's "music widow" complaints. BTW Shuu & Yukari are in an interesting later episode where this scenario is taken further. Possibly also an OVA

Irony in this episode is that if Hikaru had not told Kyosuke that Madoka was planning something secretly for later, he might have gone with the rest to the display - & missed the important private time he had with Madoka. Kyosuke still seems largely oblivious to Madoka's emotional state. Perhaps Hikaru's overwhelmingness is partly responsible.

Lucky he has the dreams to keep his loss anxiety high. Its those & Madoka's arrangements that keep them close despite all the distractions lately.

Kyosuke is aware that he is still only a 15 y/o high schooler though. Sometimes he thinks he's doing things, or being tempted to, that he's not old enough to take onboard - probably why he's so sensitive to "boy" taunts. Madoka realises this sometimes & is gently "weaning" him into slightly more mature situations & habits.

Amasawa

08-25-2006, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
...though doesn't that make Madoka kinda sneaky, whereas Hikaru invited Madoka swimming and wanted her to go to the fireworks with everyone Madoka just wanted it to be her and Kyousuke. Though for the anime I can't see them moving in any other direction. Kyousuke's indecisiveness is taken to the limit until the end when I'm surprised they had him tell Hikaru he's not going(though we never get to hear his excuse, what could it have been to sooth the savage hikaru we got a look at?)
...
Other stuff, like...making Hikaru the nice one, and making Kyousuke be really stupid,he could tell Hikaru he can't go to the fireworks but not the pool, are a litlle annoying but what I expect when you try to do a little too much in one episode.

[/ QUOTE ]
Madoka has to be sneaky to maintain the pretense that she supports Hikaru's relationship with Kyosuke. Throughout the anime Madoka is attempting to deceive Hikaru about her feelings for Kyosuke. However, it isn't done with devious intent. She does it because she can't decide which she wants to do -- make Hikaru happy or get close to Kyosuke. She can't give up either, so she ends up trying to do both.

Kyosuke initially thinks he can get a little pool time in before he needs to meet Madoka. However, when he finds his sisters there with Hatta and Komatsu, he feels he needs to go back often to make sure they are OK. So, he isn't going to be with Hikaru, he is going to protect his sisters. That's the purpose of the Hatta grope. It is to show that Kyosuke is justified in thinking his sisters need protection. Why he doesn't drop a steamroller on Hatta is unknown.

Amasawa

08-25-2006, 02:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
I missed the Shuu = cousin bit & some of Yukari's "music widow" complaints. BTW Shuu & Yukari are in an interesting later episode where this scenario is taken further. Possibly also an OVA

[/ QUOTE ]
Madoka spells it out at the end when Yukari runs out of Abcb, Shuu follows her, and Kyosuke starts to go after them.

[ QUOTE ]

Irony in this episode is that if Hikaru had not told Kyosuke that Madoka was planning something secretly for later, he might have gone with the rest to the display - & missed the important private time he had with Madoka. Kyosuke still seems largely oblivious to Madoka's emotional state. Perhaps Hikaru's overwhelmingness is partly responsible.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, I liked that part. It is Hikaru that helps Kyosuke put together how Madoka must feel. At this point Hikaru seems clueless about Madoka wanting to be with Kyosuke. If it had happened after the "tennis lesson" Madoka gave Kyosuke, Hikaru might have been more suspicious about Madoka's "previous engagement."

plaidwolf

08-25-2006, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
One of my favourite episodes for Madoka's sexy-cute gypsy frock (which is the same as in the Akemi Takada pic on the OVA box) & Yukari's singing voice being Wada Kanako ("Salvia Flower").

Madoka is finally getting the message Kyosuke is interested in her more deeply than mere friendship. Her gloom that he might not come to the band's performance, & relief when he does shows plainly.

In this episode Kyosuke feels tempted by an older woman than Madoka, but maybe seduced is a better word. Yukari is very sexy!

These adult friends of Madoka's shed a little more light on her life before & away from Kyosuke & the school enviroment. Being talented, she might have met other musicians through her parents, or more likely, from the disco/club nightlife she seems familiar with. Might even tie-in with her "hooligan" days as well (& where she got to start drinking booze).

[/ QUOTE ]

Thinking on this a bit more, allow me to toss one more thought on this episode...

If Shuu is Madoka's cousin, and Yukari has been with him any length of time (and we are left with that impression), what if Madoka has been in even semi-regualr contact with them, and told them about this guy who seems to like her, but cant seem to commit?

Would it not be reasonable to see if maybe the loving cousins might lend an assist to see if they could draw Kyo and Madoka a bit closer (i had the impression the red ribbon bit was planned out by someone, and not necessarily Madoka....or if she DID know about it, she was trying to send a signal to the terminally cornfused Kyo....)

Shsway

08-25-2006, 08:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Perhaps reverting back to their past "bad ass" personas as a way of patching things up between them. Madoka was probably aware that she was a large part of what Hikaru was upset about. So, she's going back to old bonds to make up for it. Madoka seems to have been familiar with alcohol for sometime, most likely Hikaru was part of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, that makes sense when you consider that, as the younger "sibling", Hikaru probably still idolizes Madoka in many ways. It really must be strange to her, seeing her oneesan act so soft and tender with someone who is decidely not from their family, much less not her man.

Shsway

08-25-2006, 08:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
What about the flowers in this episode?

[/ QUOTE ]

You know, I noticed all that, but it never even ocurred to me to consider the symbolism. /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif Your mention of the "deflowering" is especially interesting.

Shsway

08-25-2006, 09:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
I liked the read thread (ribbon) jesture. Where was Hikaru when this happened? /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh, too busy boogieing (and laying the smack down on), Yu, apparently.

[ QUOTE ]
I like the rock version of Madoka in a band, rather than this swing version. Her outfit in this one seems too prissy for an electric guitar.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. It's cute enough, but it never looked right in this ep. Besides, Yukari's outfit was a batter match for her eyes than Madoka's - the coloring peeps could have at least tried for a closer shade of green.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and what do you all think of the lyrics that Madoka "penned"? "If a whisper is enough to turn your heart..."

[/ QUOTE ]

I adore "Salvia no hana no you ni" ("Like the Salvia Flower"?) It's my favorite anime-related song EVER. Totally gets the blood pumping, makes me remember being a teenager and is, I think, the song that best describes the Madoka/Kyo relationship. It's exactly half the reason that this episode rocks so much (and they actually play the whole thing almost!)

Yeah, anyway...the line, "If a mere whisper is all it takes to turn your love around, I'd throw pebbles of words/into your heart to hold you tight", to me, refers more to the rumors that everyone and their cousin tell about Madoka and her past. It's like she's saying, "Don't believe everything, there's so much more to me than that stuff. Like this..."

Now, this line is about Hikaru: "Each time I follow your eyes I find there awaits someone else. A sad shadow reflects on the ripples of the lake inside your heart." Madoka seems to be the shadow in question, though I think she's really downplayed her importance in this love triangle that way...

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
If Shuu is Madoka's cousin, and Yukari has been with him any length of time (and we are left with that impression), what if Madoka has been in even semi-regualr contact with them, and told them about this guy who seems to like her, but cant seem to commit?

Would it not be reasonable to see if maybe the loving cousins might lend an assist to see if they could draw Kyo and Madoka a bit closer (i had the impression the red ribbon bit was planned out by someone, and not necessarily Madoka....

[/ QUOTE ]

This has never occurred to me, but it's possible. Didn't Yukari say, when she first met Kyosuke at ABCB, something like, "Ah, you're Kasuga-kun..."

Late notes on ep. 22:

- The animators repeat that gag with the train stop that had me shaking my head in episode 1
- Madoka and Kyosuke are seen hanging out at the swings again, with enough comfortable contact between them to make you go...and was Ayukawa actually planning to do her angsty sax routine in front of him? The girl looks great in this scene, BTW. Kyo later goes back to the swings for a good pout...
- There are a surprising amount of cartoony moments and expressions in this one...at the supermarket, Yu takes any excuse he can get to bring the hurt to Kasuga
- Yeah, the triple-zoom shot to Kyo's face and eyes (last one rendered in degrees of blue) rocks
- I honestly don't know what to make of Hikaru's "big sis" comment to Yukari... /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif She can't be that...
- Swingtop, Shu's band, has a drum that reads "Sweet Spot" for some reason. And the first song they're heard playing is "The Dramatic Square", again (get some new club music, director!)
- Did you guys catch the "Orange House" neon sign? And what, if anything, does Komatsu's "Seiko" shirt refer to? (I will admit that both he and Hatta look funny in these outfits, and dancing the way they are)
- During "Salvia...", I found the scene where Madoka turns away from Kyo's amazed expression interesting (it could be taken as a proud gesture, but it could also be one of respect for their mutual feelings)
- Kyo's "realiazation" face is so cute, and to me, his "Treasuring the important things..." speech is the most important thing that he says during course of the series

Amasawa

08-25-2006, 09:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
Thinking on this a bit more, allow me to toss one more thought on this episode...

If Shuu is Madoka's cousin, and Yukari has been with him any length of time (and we are left with that impression), what if Madoka has been in even semi-regualr contact with them, and told them about this guy who seems to like her, but cant seem to commit?

[/ QUOTE ]
After the first meeting of Yukari and Kyosuke, Yukari watches him run off and says, "So that's the Kyosuke I've heard about."(she may have said "Kasuga"). So, yes, Madoka has told Yukari about Kyosuke. Yukari probably knew that Madoka had feelings for him. Shuu was probably oblivious.

[ QUOTE ]

Would it not be reasonable to see if maybe the loving cousins might lend an assist to see if they could draw Kyo and Madoka a bit closer (i had the impression the red ribbon bit was planned out by someone, and not necessarily Madoka....or if she DID know about it, she was trying to send a signal to the terminally cornfused Kyo....)

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you are right. I was thinking mostly about Yukari's frustration with Shuu, but her teasing Kyosuke, about Madoka falling in love with someone, probably was meant to nudge him towards getting more serious about Madoka. I think the teasing was also an expression of her frustration with Shuu. Taking Kyosuke to the Candy Hotel and dumping him through the stage door was definitely aimed at getting them back together (after Kyosuke's mistaken aversion to seeing her). Yukari's character had two motivations, and they were nicely blended.

The red thread/ribbon seemed like Yukari telling both of them to quit messing about and get together.

Since they were ending on that sweet note, they left out how Hikaru might have reacted to the red ribbon. That would have been a scene.

Shsway

08-25-2006, 10:22 PM

Childish, natural bonding! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Tomcat

08-26-2006, 12:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
One of my favourite episodes for Madoka's sexy-cute gypsy frock (which is the same as in the Akemi Takada pic on the OVA box) & Yukari's singing voice being Wada Kanako ("Salvia Flower").

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought that Madoka's outfit on stage was rather cute, and given the wield clothing that Japanese performers seem to wear, it seemed about right. Not something that band members would wear in the west, but right for Japan, although I thought that Yukari's outfit was much more fitting. Thoughts of Priss darted through my head briefly. And the very subtle interaction between Madoka and Kyosuke after Yukari wraps the "present" in the red ribbon and throws it to him... I thought that was really a nice tough. And poor Madoka can't really do anything about it, but perhaps it's ok with her for it to be this way.
[ QUOTE ]
Madoka is finally getting the message Kyosuke is interested in her more deeply than mere friendship. Her gloom that he might not come to the band's performance, & relief when he does shows plainly.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought that this really served her right. I can appreciate her desire to surprise him, but this seems a funny way to do it. Myself, I hate surprises like this, ESPECIALLY if there involves anything that I might misinterpret. Madoka had just jumped to a conclusion the previous episode, and now she somehow things that Kyosuke wouldn't have? And what's up with the books? She suddenly remembers seeing Kyosuke's name on the books that she saw earlier? Are we to believe that she didn't recognize the books earlier and wonder why they were there, or stopped to pick them up to return to him later? That's just irresponsible. And, since she couldn't leave to explain the situation to him, I think she deserved for him not to show up. But, if he hadn't, then it would have been a moment that would be lost forever. They should both thank Yukari for her effort.
[ QUOTE ]
In this episode Kyosuke feels tempted by an older woman than Madoka, but maybe seduced is a better word. Yukari is very sexy!

[/ QUOTE ]
Amen. I always thought that Yukari was the #2 most interesting girl in the series. Her appearance is really too short in the two episodes. Like all the other adults, she recognizes right away that Madoka likes Kyosuke, and likewise. Anyone get the feeling that This girl might be someone that Madoka has talked about Kyosuke to? I think it's really sweet that she actually goes out of her way to make sure that he shows up at Madoka's performance, but not spoiling the surprise.

How is it that Hikaru does not know who she is when she runs into them on the street? I could never quite figure that out. Of course, if she did seem to know her, the surprise would have been spoiled for the audience.
[ QUOTE ]
These adult friends of Madoka's shed a little more light on her life before & away from Kyosuke & the school environment. Being talented, she might have met other musicians through her parents, or more likely, from the disco/club nightlife she seems familiar with. Might even tie-in with her "hooligan" days as well (& where she got to start drinking booze).

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, the band's leader is supposedly her cousin, and she seems pretty close to them. I'm guessing that he is about the same age as Madoka's older sister, and she might have grown up with him around. But Madoka is also fast to accept others, assuming that they don't judge her, so I'm sure she became quick friends with the members of the band, including Yukari.

-TC

NOTE: Contrary to what it might appear, I like this episode BECAUSE it is a learning experience for both Madoka and Kyosuke, and because of Yukari and the introduction of the wonderful new song. It's just that I find that Madoka deserved to have the tables turned on her a little.

Tomcat

08-26-2006, 01:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Childish, natural bonding! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
This is an interesting episode in the interaction between Madoka and Kyosuke.

Madoka wants to be asked to join the race, but doesn't want to be taken for granted, and her stubbornness about NOT doing it is because of his assumption that she would.

Kyosuke is maybe a little closer to reality in his fantasy about being tough on Madoka. But, her reaction in that isn't quite what I think it would be. Se seems to respond to him positively when her seems more decisive, but she wouldn't put up with him being a jerk. She would also have to fight her urge to beat him into a pulp.

In the end, she sees his determination to do this, and knows that he is doing it for her benefit, and decides that maybe she is being a little rash, and considers being a little more honest with him for a change.

This sequence happens a couple times in the series, but Madoka is usually so much further ahead of Kyosuke. It's not often that he actually gets the drop on her, and she ends up explaining things to him. But these little moments where he does seems to always bring them closer together.

And... I find Hikaru very comical in this. Kyosuke says that he is training "for the sake of a certain someone." Hikaru just assumes that the "someone" is her, and proudly boasts of it to Madoka, who instantly recognizes it. I'm not sure it Hikaru is suffering from conceit, or just can't possibly imagine that he would do anything for someone other than her.

In the end... Madoka and Kyosuke have a nice event together, and don't care at all about winning the race, as much as spending time doing it together. Almost makes you think that they might finally be "getting it".

-TC

Njr Scrawl

08-26-2006, 04:08 AM

So you'd rather have Madoka dresses like the top pic of this page (http://madoka.ayukawa2.free.fr/goodies/korgld.htm)? /images/graemlins/wink.gif (By Matsumoto Ikeda)

#22 is an episode that has so much feeling in it. But in later episodes Kyosuke says things like "could it be Ayukawa has feelings for me". Its exasperating, & when movie 1 comes...

(BTW if you scroll down to movie 1 sleeve, the pic shows Madoka's blouse is similar/same to what she wore in the library.
Movie 2 sleeve shows why Madoka might be worried, look what Hikaru grows up to look like! Madoka needs to act while she's ahead!)

plaidwolf

08-26-2006, 07:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
So you'd rather have Madoka dresses like the top pic of this page (http://madoka.ayukawa2.free.fr/goodies/korgld.htm)? /images/graemlins/wink.gif (By Matsumoto Ikeda)

#22 is an episode that has so much feeling in it. But in later episodes Kyosuke says things like "could it be Ayukawa has feelings for me". Its exasperating, & when movie 1 comes...

(BTW if you scroll down to movie 1 sleeve, the pic shows Madoka's blouse is similar/same to what she wore in the library.
Movie 2 sleeve shows why Madoka might be worried, look what Hikaru grows up to look like! Madoka needs to act while she's ahead!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thinking back to my misguided youth, let me add this to Kyo's defense.....

At that age, when we experience the idea that someone could actually like us in the way that we like them, there is still that doubt nagging in the back of our minds...that hesitation about 'is it really real?' And as whimsical as Madoka has been in her dealings with Kyo in the first two dozen eps, it would be natural for him to be left constantly wondering what she is really thinking, especially when she angers so quickly at his mis-steps...

*wry grin* and at 15, guys are usually clueless about many of the cues interested young ladies leave them...once one girl in his class REALLY had the likes for my younger brother....and not in the 'bad way', but as in a real love situation...but he never read her love messages in any way except as those of a good friend....she finally told him at a class reunion some years later, and he was totally bummed out....he nad really liked her too, but never acted because he thought all she wanted was good friends...

(on the other hand, could it be said maybe Madoka's anger at Kyo's missteps isn't really anger, but disappointment...that she wants him to be someone she could be proud to be with...she isnt worried about his dependability when it REALLY counts, he has proven that already, but that he isnt quite where she would like him to be in some ways....

Damn, this series is FUN for us amatuer shrinks!!! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Amasawa

08-26-2006, 11:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
I adore "Salvia no hana no you ni" ("Like the Salvia Flower"?) It's my favorite anime-related song EVER. Totally gets the blood pumping, makes me remember being a teenager and is, I think, the song that best describes the Madoka/Kyo relationship. It's exactly half the reason that this episode rocks so much (and they actually play the whole thing almost!)

Yeah, anyway...the line, "If a mere whisper is all it takes to turn your love around, I'd throw pebbles of words/into your heart to hold you tight", to me, refers more to the rumors that everyone and their cousin tell about Madoka and her past. It's like she's saying, "Don't believe everything, there's so much more to me than that stuff. Like this..."

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm, could be. I thought it referred to his susceptibility to Hikaru. Madoka wishing that Kyosuke would decide between them and dump Hikaru. However, it has been Madoka who has steered Kyosuke away from hurting Hikaru. It may just be her secret wish that Kyosuke relieve her of having to decide between Hikaru and Kyosuke by his making the decision and being firm about it. Maybe not.

[ QUOTE ]

Now, this line is about Hikaru: "Each time I follow your eyes I find there awaits someone else. A sad shadow reflects on the ripples of the lake inside your heart." Madoka seems to be the shadow in question, though I think she's really downplayed her importance in this love triangle that way...

[/ QUOTE ]
The first line does seem to be about the omnipresence of Hikaru. I'm not sure about the shadow. Madoka is standing by the lake tossing in pebbles and saddened
with the ripples she sees? She needs to throw in a few large rocks, but doesn't seem to have the courage to do that.

[ QUOTE ]
Late notes on ep. 22:

- Madoka and Kyosuke are seen hanging out at the swings again, with enough comfortable contact between them to make you go...and was Ayukawa actually planning to do her angsty sax routine in front of him? The girl looks great in this scene, BTW. Kyo later goes back to the swings for a good pout...

[/ QUOTE ]
In that scene they are making arrangements for Madoka to help Kyosuke with homework (for a chocolate pie date). When the time comes, Madoka has vanished. In a way, she has stood him up.

[ QUOTE ]

- There are a surprising amount of cartoony moments and expressions in this one...at the supermarket, Yu takes any excuse he can get to bring the hurt to Kasuga

[/ QUOTE ]
Many of Kyosuke's extreme emotions go "cartoon" such as in his first meeting with Yukari. There is one scene where we go from a cartoon Kyosuke to a well rendered Madoka -- quite a contrast.

Another "cartoon" event is when Papa hears that the crank call was from Kyosuke and friends.

[ QUOTE ]

- Yeah, the triple-zoom shot to Kyo's face and eyes (last one rendered in degrees of blue) rocks

[/ QUOTE ]
Where is this? I didn't notice it.

[ QUOTE ]

- I honestly don't know what to make of Hikaru's "big sis" comment to Yukari... /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif She can't be that...

[/ QUOTE ]
What is with Hikaru pushing them into oncoming traffic, nearly getting them killed, and being totally unrepentant about it? Why are Kyosuke and Yukari not furious with her?

Why doesn't Hikaru know Madoka's cousin's longtime girlfriend? Hikaru is pretty much family to Madoka. One would think that Hikaru would know all the members of this band Madoka had joined.

How is it that Hikaru isn't surprised when Yukari is introduced as a lead singer. Does Hikaru still think she is Kyosuke's sister? The writers really stretched things here.

[ QUOTE ]

- Swingtop, Shu's band, has a drum that reads "Sweet Spot" for some reason. And the first song they're heard playing is "The Dramatic Square", again (get some new club music, director!)

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't drums have a "sweet spot"? Perhaps it is a made up brand name for drums.

[ QUOTE ]

- Did you guys catch the "Orange House" neon sign? And what, if anything, does Komatsu's "Seiko" shirt refer to? (I will admit that both he and Hatta look funny in these outfits, and dancing the way they are)

[/ QUOTE ]
Orange does sneak in a number of places in the series, but I hadn't noticed it until you pointed it out.

Isn't "Seiko" the word that sounds like "psycho" and means something like "the best"? If so, it was used a little earlier by Yukari outside the Candy Hotel. At Kyosuke's hesitation about going in, she is telling him that she is really in the mood, or "psyched up" for it (as we used to say).

Komatsu's T-shirt has the face of an attractive woman on it. Perhaps it is a fan T-shirt for the singer Komotsu has his room dedicated to? What are those jackets they are wearing? At least they are having a good time dancing.

Speaking of dancing, again we see Yusaku getting it completely wrong. Hikaru is doing a swing-style step-tap step-tap in character with the band's name. Yuu is doing disco! Later, during Salvia... Hikaru is standing there in rapt attention listening to the emotion in the lyrics. Yuu is break dancing! Kyosuke should be grateful that Madoka grew up with such a doofus. By contrast, Kyosuke looks pretty cool.

[ QUOTE ]

- During "Salvia...", I found the scene where Madoka turns away from Kyo's amazed expression interesting (it could be taken as a proud gesture, but it could also be one of respect for their mutual feelings)

[/ QUOTE ]
To me it seems that first she looks at Kyosuke to see how he reacts to her song. Then she looks away shyly and closes her eyes in a pleased/poud way. I thought it was a fairly sweet moment.

[ QUOTE ]

- Kyo's "realiazation" face is so cute, and to me, his "Treasuring the important things..." speech is the most important thing that he says during course of the series

[/ QUOTE ]
Etching out their memories one by one.

Njr Scrawl

08-26-2006, 11:34 AM

Points well made! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif Kyosuke being modest, & having two critical sisters, is probably self-depreciating to some extent - which is where his nightmares come from. Madoka sees more in him, than he himself does.

It might also explain why he falls for more direct advances, as Hikaru, Yukari & the girl with glasses "catch" him easily when Madoka is not around to make him feel guilty.

Those time where Madoka has played "easy" (some to come /images/graemlins/wink.gif ), Kyosuke swallows her bait. Madoka has yet to try playing vulnerable deliberately - but where she has genuinely needed help e.g. Big Monday beach & the island, Kyosuke has been there for her 100%, but never self-congratulatory after, just happy for a good outcome.

Njr Scrawl

08-26-2006, 11:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]

- Kyo's "realiazation" face is so cute, and to me, his "Treasuring the important things..." speech is the most important thing that he says during course of the series

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Etching out their memories one by one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does he use that exact phrase, because it gets re-used in a slightly different scene in a later episode by Madoka talking to Kyosuke alone

Amasawa

08-26-2006, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Childish, natural bonding! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
This is an interesting episode in the interaction between Madoka and Kyosuke.

[/ QUOTE ]
There are a few of things I don't like about this episode. At least it ends well.

[ QUOTE ]

Madoka wants to be asked to join the race, but doesn't want to be taken for granted, and her stubbornness about NOT doing it is because of his assumption that she would.

[/ QUOTE ]
I saw it a little differently. Madoka wants Kyosuke to ask her because he thinks it would be nice to run together. However, the way his appeal comes out makes it sounds like he thinks she should do it because it would be good for her.

[ QUOTE ]

Kyosuke is maybe a little closer to reality in his fantasy about being tough on Madoka. But, her reaction in that isn't quite what I think it would be. Se seems to respond to him positively when her seems more decisive, but she wouldn't put up with him being a jerk. She would also have to fight her urge to beat him into a pulp.

[/ QUOTE ]
I thought Kyosuke's abusive fantasy was one of the low points of the series. It paints him as having the same attitude as the two low-lifes Madoka beat up in the park, but without sufficient courage to act.

[ QUOTE ]

In the end, she sees his determination to do this, and knows that he is doing it for her benefit, and decides that maybe she is being a little rash, and considers being a little more honest with him for a change.

[/ QUOTE ]
She makes a few attempts to reconcile things, but catches Kyosuke at the wrong moment. One of them he is so wrapped up in planning where to transport from that he doesn't hear her and she doesn't tolerate being ignored.

What really turns her around is finding out that his true motivation is exactly what she wanted to hear from him in the first place.

[ QUOTE ]

And... I find Hikaru very comical in this. Kyosuke says that he is training "for the sake of a certain someone." Hikaru just assumes that the "someone" is her, and proudly boasts of it to Madoka, who instantly recognizes it. I'm not sure it Hikaru is suffering from conceit, or just can't possibly imagine that he would do anything for someone other than her.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hikaru is her own worst enemy again. Just as she did in the double date (library/pool) episode, she reveals the information that brings Kyosuke and Madoka back together. This time it is Madoka who receives the info. Last time it was Kyosuke.

Some other thoughts:

-Whoa! Hikaru gets rather explicit in her expressing affection for Kyosuke. Jumping on him, wrapping her legs around him, and rapidly wiggling her tail seems over the top, even for Hikaru. This is in an early scene in a clothing shop. Hikaru has just tried on some yellow shorts. How did her shorts not get soiled? /images/graemlins/stunned1.gif /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif

-Hatta stoops to a little blackmail when he mentions, "...what happened in the mountains..." to stop Kyosuke from protesting his nomination as anchor.

-Komatsu and Hatta seem to be getting along quite well with Manami and Kurumi. This time it seems Komatsu is with Manami, and Hatta with Kurumi.

-Kyosuke's power isn't always under control. The scene in the bath is pretty amusing. He is thinking that he has to get out of the situation he is in with Madoka and ends up literally getting out of the bath...

Amasawa

08-26-2006, 12:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
[ QUOTE ]

- Kyo's "realiazation" face is so cute, and to me, his "Treasuring the important things..." speech is the most important thing that he says during course of the series

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Etching out their memories one by one.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does he use that exact phrase, because it gets re-used in a slightly different scene in a later episode by Madoka talking to Kyosuke alone

[/ QUOTE ]

I was referring to the later use by Madoka to point out how the two go together.

Njr Scrawl

08-26-2006, 01:43 PM

Japanese summer breaks don't last long!

Madoka's real favour & appreciation have to be earned, or deserved as she sees fit. Bigger the Madoka-prize, bigger the gesture or achievement to earn it. You can tell where that is leading /images/graemlins/wink.gif
Kyosuke hasn't got her figured yet, he's always too panicked or dreading too far ahead.

Madoka's resistance is partly anti-establishment IMO, as much as her compliance being taken for granted. Madoka does not really want to be part of the school enviroment outside of classes & getting exam results (she may have learned a lot in advance from helping her sister revise)

Hikaru in this episode is her usual innocent self really, nothing more. Perhaps generally she thinks Madoka considers Kyosuke too young, or that Madoka is like a big sister to him, & not inclined romantically.

This episode has one of the best KOR TV endings of the series, alongside the Big Monday & Island endings.

Its also the end of a stage in KOR TV. Everything has reached a certain emotional level & needs some new catalyst to stir up feelings again. Cue #24 /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Njr Scrawl

08-26-2006, 02:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Madoka wants Kyosuke to ask her because he thinks it would be nice to run together. However, the way his appeal comes out makes it sounds like he thinks she should do it because it would be good for her.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's talking to Madoka here, as though she was Manami or Kurumi. So patronising. Wrong tactic for Madoka! Because Kyosuke does not see himself as Madoka's equal, sometimes her junior, he maybe can't talk to her as he wants, but has to be assertive if he wants to force his will.

[ QUOTE ]
I thought Kyosuke's abusive fantasy was one of the low points of the series.

[/ QUOTE ]

His whole behaviour, from volunteering Madoka in class, was strange. Then his training enthusiasm. I think he just got carried away..

[ QUOTE ]
-Kyosuke's power isn't always under control. The scene in the bath is pretty amusing. He is thinking that he has to get out of the situation he is in with Madoka and ends up literally getting out of the bath...

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that the trousers back-to-front scene?

Amasawa

08-26-2006, 03:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
[ QUOTE ]
-Kyosuke's power isn't always under control. The scene in the bath is pretty amusing. He is thinking that he has to get out of the situation he is in with Madoka and ends up literally getting out of the bath...

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that the trousers back-to-front scene?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, trousers back-to-front is in episode New Year's episode #39 with hypnotized Madoka.

This scene starts with Kyosuke in the bath. He is thinking that the situation with Madoka has gotten really screwy. With the thought that he needs to find a way out of the situation he inadvertently transports his naked self out of the bath and into a car with Umao-san and Ushiko-san. He gets out of the car, they rapidly drive off, and Kyosuke is standing outside when it starts to rain. This is when he catches a cold.

Shsway

08-27-2006, 12:53 AM

Just when you thought you had every KOR lead established and ready for action, out comes another spunky member of the Kasuga clan - a child with a highly enviable gift, on the surface.

Played by fan favorite/80's regular, Sakamoto Chika, Kazuya is probably my favorite child character in anime, for a most realistic depiction (anyone else seeing a pattern here /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif). I do have to say that Wendy from Gun X Sword has been challenging his spot lately though...

Anyway, we're halfway through the TV series, as of this episode!

Amasawa

08-27-2006, 02:04 AM

Kazuya really puts Kyosuke through it -- making him juggle the two relationships.

The fun thing about Kazuya is that he is sort of trying to help Kyosuke, but to his own standards. For some reason Kyosuke seems rather unappreciative. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

Hikaru again gets screwy ideas about how people are related to Kyosuke. Who did Hikaru think the mother was? How old would Kyosuke have to have been when he fathered a five year old -- ten, eleven? Just how thick is Hikaru?

Nice moment when Madoka says she wished they could just go somewhere alone. Too bad Kyosuke is so stunned.

Kyosuke's revelation in episode 22 "Treasuring the important things..." allows him to threasure moments with either girl. Kazuya now asks the girls if they are really OK with things they way they are. Quite a few episodes ago Madoka said she was, but now it seems she isn't, nor is Kyosuke.

Njr Scrawl

08-27-2006, 03:17 AM

Kazuya rattles the emotional cages alright & makes the pair + Hikaru think about their feelings for each other in different ways. Hikaru realises that she wants a brother (being an only child can be lonely), & her sincerity makes Kyosuke move over to her more emotionally.

Madoka maybe feels like she wants a son or younger brother with what she considers the cute aspects of Kyosuke's personality. She can feel motherly toward of a younger Kyosuke lookalike as well. Madoka after all is the #1 girl-next-door in KOR. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

At the same time Madoka is also feeling uneasy about not being the centre of Kyosuke's attention, and also that for the time being Hikaru is gaining emotional ground again, while she (Madoka) seems to be losing some.

After so much Ten brattiness in UY, Kazuya is cool!

plaidwolf

08-27-2006, 09:17 AM

When i introduced a coworker to the series a few years back, she enjoyed it a lot....but also noted she needed to 'beware of telepathic five-year-olds...."

Kids that age tend to be very honest about what they see....they havent learned yet the subtleties of the oft-public little white lies we need to say in order to function as a society, so they tend to say things that we know are true, but try to avoid saying

He is a refreshing change of pace in the show in that he forces Kyo to take a hard look at how he is acting to both girls...while Kyo is still as indecisive as ever (and at the end, Kaz directly poses to all three the simple question about the current situation.....yet another clue to the seemingly-dim Hikaru that there is more going on than meets the eye with the two people closest to her...but she seems to havent picked up on it...or if she has, she is trying to look the other way in the belief that her best pal wouldnt hurt her in such a way....

Kaz also plays havoc with the other characters interactions as well...and in a way, i am sure Papa is glad to have him around!

Amasawa

08-27-2006, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
...yet another clue to the seemingly-dim Hikaru that there is more going on than meets the eye with the two people closest to her...but she seems to havent picked up on it...or if she has, she is trying to look the other way in the belief that her best pal wouldnt hurt her in such a way....

[/ QUOTE ]
Or, she believes that she can do something about it as she claimed in Movie 1. Best to pretend she doesn't know about a Madoka/Kyosuke relationship so she can work towards stealing him away without seeming to betray Madoka. For her, feigning ignorance of Madoka's feelings for Kyosuke allows her to pursue Kyosuke and still seem a true friend to Madoka.

Njr Scrawl

08-27-2006, 04:34 PM

Knowing Hikaru as well as she does, Madoka would sense any deceit. Also as she says, Hikaru is the kind that wears her heart on her sleeve. Perhaps Madoka is ignoring or not worried by Hikaru's pull on Kyosuke at this time, but more irritated at her persistence.

Kyosuke is not so much indecisive, in his own opinion, as wanting to keep everyone happy. Yes, Tenchi had a predecessor!

Amasawa

08-27-2006, 05:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Knowing Hikaru as well as she does, Madoka would sense any deceit.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm, you think Madoka would know that Hikaru knows or suspects that Madoka likes Kyosuke, even if Hikaru didn't let on? Could be. All Hikaru needs to do is feign ignorance of Madoka and Kyosuke liking each other. Some of the things Hikaru appears to believe would make her a real air-head if she truly believed them. The series is full of incredulous examples of her denial that Kyosuke loves Madoka. Maybe she is a complete air-head. Maybe she hides behind the air-head act.

[ QUOTE ]
Also as she says, Hikaru is the kind that wears her heart on her sleeve.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't recall Madoka saying that. Isn't it Manami that says something like that in the mushroom hunt episode? I believe she calls Hikaru a walking mushroom of truth. She says this to Yusaku while he is looking for the truth mushroom.

However, wearing her heart on her sleeve means that who she likes is apparent for all to see. It doesn't mean she lets on about what she knows about other's feelings. She can be completely open about her love for Kyosuke without revealing whether or not she knows who Madoka loves.

[ QUOTE ]

Perhaps Madoka is ignoring or not worried by Hikaru's pull on Kyosuke at this time, but more irritated at her persistence.

Kyosuke is not so much indecisive, in his own opinion, as wanting to keep everyone happy. Yes, Tenchi had a predecessor!

[/ QUOTE ]
Good comparison. I hadn't really made the connection with Tenchi before. However, Tenchi had two predecessors. Madoka is also trying to play it both ways. She wants Kyosuke and she wants to keep Hikaru happy.

I think Madoka is irritated at her own ambivalence, and at Kyosuke for not relieving her of the predicament. However, she can't really be mad at Kyosuke because she is an active co-conspirator in trying to keep Hikaru in the dark about her and Kyosuke. So, it isn't that she blames him. She just gets annoyed about it.

Shsway

08-27-2006, 08:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
So you'd rather have Madoka dresses like the top pic of this page (http://madoka.ayukawa2.free.fr/goodies/korgld.htm)? /images/graemlins/wink.gif (By Matsumoto Ikeda)

[/ QUOTE ]

Mmmmmm, yesh. That is a really nice site (makes me think that I should really try my hand at acquiring some of those LD's for the artwork alone).

Shsway

08-27-2006, 11:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Who did Hikaru think the mother was? How old would Kyosuke have to have been when he fathered a five year old -- ten, eleven? Just how thick is Hikaru?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif You know, this is something that has become so much more evident to me, as of this viewing. Sometimes, it's tough to acknowledge that because she really is so loyal sometimes, even cute, being that she's such a child. But still...

[ QUOTE ]
Nice moment when Madoka says she wished they could just go somewhere alone. Too bad Kyosuke is so stunned.

[/ QUOTE ]

I live for these moments in the show. How can it not be one of my favorites when everything leading up to this moment feels so well-scripted? /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Kazuya now asks the girls if they are really OK with things they way they are. Quite a few episodes ago Madoka said she was, but now it seems she isn't, nor is Kyosuke.

[/ QUOTE ]

And out comes the angsty sax, with a more improvisational piece of music played.

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Hikaru realises that she wants a brother (being an only child can be lonely), & her sincerity makes Kyosuke move over to her more emotionally.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I did wonder whether his genuine move towards her there really was a pure, brotherly move? It would have been completely lost on Hikaru - maybe Kasuga himself wasn't aware of his exact meaning.

[ QUOTE ]
Kyosuke is not so much indecisive, in his own opinion, as wanting to keep everyone happy. Yes, Tenchi had a predecessor!

[/ QUOTE ]

Except I don't really consider it to be the same sort of situation. Kyosuke pursues Madoka actively and not, because he's attracted to her most. Tenchi doesn't seem to know how to respond to so many pushy girls, nor does he really show any outright romantic interest in any of them.

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Madoka is also trying to play it both ways. She wants Kyosuke and she wants to keep Hikaru happy.

I think Madoka is irritated at her own ambivalence, and at Kyosuke for not relieving her of the predicament. However, she can't really be mad at Kyosuke because she is an active co-conspirator in trying to keep Hikaru in the dark about her and Kyosuke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

Other things observed:
- Jingoro actually gets to leave the apartment for a lengthy amount of time, and without either of Kyo's sisters!
- That's some redheaded bully there, that Kyosuke bumps into. I chuckled when he was referred to a "kowai oniisan" later on
- Kasuga's preppy outfit and Madoka hot one really suit this episode (feminine cut and color, the legs!) In fact, everyone is dressed in a way that adds to the overall tone (Hikaru in her pink sailor suit-type thingy?)
- Madoka's been flirting with Kyo a lot more recently (I mean, that line about getting something for babysitting Kazuya...)
- I'm so sure that Kyo is soooo sorry for groping the girl. Well, it was accidental after all, and his reaction amuses me
- Another great line that defines this ep: "How could anyone believe that Madoka is the one you like best?"

You know, this episode also has one of the best panty shots EVER. I should get a screen cap of it.

Shsway

08-27-2006, 11:31 PM

Ever wanted a personal pep talk to leave permanent results on you? Well, that's not exactly what happens here, but we can add an unusual new trick to Kyosuke's stock of them.

This just isn't right to me. /images/graemlins/sad.gif

Shsway

08-27-2006, 11:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
I find Hikaru very comical in this. Kyosuke says that he is training "for the sake of a certain someone." Hikaru just assumes that the "someone" is her, and proudly boasts of it to Madoka, who instantly recognizes it. I'm not sure it Hikaru is suffering from conceit, or just can't possibly imagine that he would do anything for someone other than her.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of her reactions were pretty funny in this (and in some cases, she was quite cruel to Yu!) I think the animators had a blast making her, and pretty much every other character save Madoka go extremely over the top. My favorite was Kyosuke's reaction to his getting made the anchor (his teeth!)

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
Madoka wants to be asked to join the race, but doesn't want to be taken for granted, and her stubbornness about NOT doing it is because of his assumption that she would.

[/ QUOTE ]
I saw it a little differently. Madoka wants Kyosuke to ask her because he thinks it would be nice to run together. However, the way his appeal comes out makes it sounds like he thinks she should do it because it would be good for her.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, like, "You should listen to the teacher and be part of the group. It's the right thing for someone like you!"

[ QUOTE ]
I thought Kyosuke's abusive fantasy was one of the low points of the series. It paints him as having the same attitude as the two low-lifes Madoka beat up in the park, but without sufficient courage to act.

[/ QUOTE ]

Urgh, yeah. That he even thought it was just terrible. The only amusing part about it was his tough slurring of the words, but then he went and called her a bitch...

[ QUOTE ]
[Madoka] makes a few attempts to reconcile things, but catches Kyosuke at the wrong moment. One of them he is so wrapped up in planning where to transport from that he doesn't hear her and she doesn't tolerate being ignored.

[/ QUOTE ]

I especially like the scene where she actually goes to Kyosuke's house, and he's so annoyed that he actually slams the door on her! The whole things makes for one long, neat moment. Come to think of it, wasn't this HER first time in Kyo's room? What a difference from how Hikaru came to be there.

[ QUOTE ]
-Whoa! Hikaru gets rather explicit in her expressing affection for Kyosuke. Jumping on him, wrapping her legs around him, and rapidly wiggling her tail seems over the top, even for Hikaru. This is in an early scene in a clothing shop.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a neat song playing in the background there too - "Furimuite, My Darling", performed by Fujishiro Minako. The song is pretty much about a girl who'll "get" that special guy any way she can, and it really fits Hikaru's personality to a T, in many ways. The arrangement was done by Sagisu Shiro, apparently, and now that I've checked, I see that he also had a hand in "Orange Mystery" and "Natsu no Mirage" (something I never knew!)

[ QUOTE ]
-Hatta stoops to a little blackmail when he mentions, "...what happened in the mountains..." to stop Kyosuke from protesting his nomination as anchor.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know I saw and heard that, but its purpose and effect were actually lost on me. /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif

[ QUOTE ]
-Komatsu and Hatta seem to be getting along quite well with Manami and Kurumi. This time it seems Komatsu is with Manami, and Hatta with Kurumi.

[/ QUOTE ]

That one scene where they're dragging the girls around on the skates was pretty funny. Speaking of the skates, did anyone else think that it was odd, how Kurumi made pink sparklies appear on them, when she first used one to make Jingoro zoom around the room? None of the powers seen in the show require a display of sparklies, normally.

Amasawa

08-28-2006, 01:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Kyosuke is not so much indecisive, in his own opinion, as wanting to keep everyone happy. Yes, Tenchi had a predecessor!

[/ QUOTE ]

Except I don't really consider it to be the same sort of situation. Kyosuke pursues Madoka actively and not, because he's attracted to her most. Tenchi doesn't seem to know how to respond to so many pushy girls, nor does he really show any outright romantic interest in any of them.

[/ QUOTE ]
There are times when Kyosuke pursues Madoka actively, and there are Tenchi times -- especially in the early part of the series -- when he doesn't know what to do nor who he likes best. I think it can be said that Tenchi is very similar to one aspect of Kyosuke.

[ QUOTE ]
Other things observed:
- That's some redheaded bully there, that Kyosuke bumps into. I chuckled when he was referred to a "kowai oniisan" later on

[/ QUOTE ]
How does "kowai oniisan" translate?

[ QUOTE ]

- Kasuga's preppy outfit and Madoka hot one really suit this episode (feminine cut and color, the legs!) In fact, everyone is dressed in a way that adds to the overall tone (Hikaru in her pink sailor suit-type thingy?)

[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't Madoka's outfit the same one she wore at the swings in episode 22? This is when she asked for chocolate pie in exchange for homework help.

[ QUOTE ]

- Madoka's been flirting with Kyo a lot more recently (I mean, that line about getting something for babysitting Kazuya...)

[/ QUOTE ]
Kyosuke needs to take that bait more often.

[ QUOTE ]

- I'm so sure that Kyo is soooo sorry for groping the girl. Well, it was accidental after all, and his reaction amuses me

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, or just worried what the reaction will be? I'm not sure he is sorry.../images/graemlins/noseblef.gif

[ QUOTE ]

- Another great line that defines this ep: "How could anyone believe that Madoka is the one you like best?"

[/ QUOTE ]
And Kyosuke is so sorry that Madoka heard his response.

Natsume_Maya

08-28-2006, 07:58 AM

(Sorry for the late post on this episode. I got a bit behind last week.)

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Second, Madoka still thinks all men are treacherous scum deep down. She becomes protective big-sister/jilted girlfriend/avenger of womankind & has (correctly) little trust of Kyosuke. Goes hunting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see things that way. Madoka was there when Kyosuke first met Kumiko. She would've seen that it was Kumiko who took the initiative. I thought that she knew Kyosuke well enough to know that he wouldn't do anything really inappropriate but that she was angry that he wasn't assertive.

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Actually, I thought that the writers had intended her to be a Madoka clone of sorts, to make Kyosuke's attraction to the girl understandable. Well, I went by what I felt were some pretty obvious parallels to his first meeting with Madoka, when he first meets Oda Kumiko.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's how I felt. Kumiko had a straw hat, which blew off her head, looked roughly the same age as Kyosuke and Madoka, had long hair of roughly the same colour as Madoka. Another reminder of Madoka was that Kyosuke got into a discussion with her about counting - this time counting the number of times the stone skipped, 7 or 8 times.

To me, this episode was about Kyosuke meeting a girl who in some ways reminds him of Madoka. This girl is more inviting, but he does the honourable thing and avoids the temptation.

Other things:

- I note that Komatsu and Hatta seem a lot more at ease talking to Ayukawa in this episode compared to the start of the series where they wanted nothing to do with her.

- I have no idea what the jet was about either /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Natsume_Maya

08-28-2006, 08:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
I liked her expressions in those scenes. I also liked her revelation that Kyosuke probably saw her and Shuu coming out of the Candy Hotel and made the wrong assumption.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought that, from her position in the car, Madoka must have had amazing vision and eyesight to see Kyosuke's name on a book on the road next to the car /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Plaid Wolf said:
Would it not be reasonable to see if maybe the loving cousins might lend an assist to see if they could draw Kyo and Madoka a bit closer (i had the impression the red ribbon bit was planned out by someone, and not necessarily Madoka....or if she DID know about it, she was trying to send a signal to the terminally cornfused Kyo....)

[/ QUOTE ]

As with all adults in this series, Yukari seems to have picked up pretty quickly the attraction between Kyosuke and Madoka. She starts teasing Kyosuke at ABCB from the very beginning.

Other points:

- I liked Yuusaku's breakdancing /images/graemlins/happy.gif Though Hikaru wasn't impressed in the slightest.

- I have some cels from this episode /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif
Yukari at ABCB: one (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140741), two (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140742), three (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140743)
Madoka on the guitar (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140744)
Yukari singing: one (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140746), two (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140748), three (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140749), four (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140750), five (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140751)

Natsume_Maya

08-28-2006, 08:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
I find Hikaru very comical in this. Kyosuke says that he is training "for the sake of a certain someone." Hikaru just assumes that the "someone" is her, and proudly boasts of it to Madoka, who instantly recognizes it. I'm not sure it Hikaru is suffering from conceit, or just can't possibly imagine that he would do anything for someone other than her.

[/ QUOTE ]

All of her reactions were pretty funny in this (and in some cases, she was quite cruel to Yu!) I think the animators had a blast making her, and pretty much every other character save Madoka go extremely over the top.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's one thing which I've noticed. In all the episodes where exaggerated, more comical faces have been used for characters, they are limited to Kyosuke, Hikaru and Yuusaku. Madoka's never made to look silly that way.

Natsume_Maya

08-28-2006, 08:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Komatsu's T-shirt has the face of an attractive woman on it. Perhaps it is a fan T-shirt for the singer Komotsu has his room dedicated to? What are those jackets they are wearing? At least they are having a good time dancing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think those kinds of jackets are associated with fan/supporters' clubs of various things like idol singers, baseball clubs etc.

Njr Scrawl

08-28-2006, 11:37 AM

Best scene is in class when Madoka walks in & the new "decisive" Kyosuke winks at her. She's startled for a second, & then says deliberately haughtily "something in your eye?" & walks on by. Nice tease!

Rest of this episode made me squirm. Probably the one I like least so far into the series.

If its the one where Madoka wears that red & white party dress...what happened to her dress sense!

Njr Scrawl

08-28-2006, 11:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Madoka's been flirting with Kyo a lot more recently

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember from watching the series last time, she has said to him in a sexy teasing way "Ka-sug-a-kun" when they were alone a couple of times, but can't remember the episodes. It made my neck hairs bristle though /images/graemlins/noseblee.gif

Amasawa

08-28-2006, 02:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Actually, I thought that the writers had intended her to be a Madoka clone of sorts, to make Kyosuke's attraction to the girl understandable. Well, I went by what I felt were some pretty obvious parallels to his first meeting with Madoka, when he first meets Oda Kumiko.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's how I felt. Kumiko had a straw hat, which blew off her head, looked roughly the same age as Kyosuke and Madoka, had long hair of roughly the same colour as Madoka. Another reminder of Madoka was that Kyosuke got into a discussion with her about counting - this time counting the number of times the stone skipped, 7 or 8 times.

To me, this episode was about Kyosuke meeting a girl who in some ways reminds him of Madoka. This girl is more inviting, but he does the honourable thing and avoids the temptation.

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess we should have known nothing would happen between them when Kyosuke failed to catch or retrieve the hat. I suspect that was meant to be symbolic.

[ QUOTE ]

Other things:

- I note that Komatsu and Hatta seem a lot more at ease talking to Ayukawa in this episode compared to the start of the series where they wanted nothing to do with her.

[/ QUOTE ]
I attribute that to two things.
1. Because of Kyosuke, Madoka has calmed down and is being a much nicer person.
2. Kyosuke's association with her has shown them that she isn't that dangerous anymore. In a previous episode Komatsu says something to the effect that although she is being good now, she used to be a real badass.

Amasawa

08-28-2006, 02:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
I thought that, from her position in the car, Madoka must have had amazing vision and eyesight to see Kyosuke's name on a book on the road next to the car /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the director or editor got the timing wrong. A second more of the book shot and it would have seemed believable. Or, perhaps there was something distinctive about the books that Madoka recognized?

[ QUOTE ]

- I liked Yuusaku's breakdancing /images/graemlins/happy.gif Though Hikaru wasn't impressed in the slightest.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's because (as is typical of Yusaku) it was competely inappropriate to the song that was playing. This was the emotionally charged song that Madoka penned. Hikaru shows the audience the correct response. She is standing in rapt attention, hands clasped together.

[ QUOTE ]

- I have some cels from this episode /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif
Yukari at ABCB: one (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140741), two (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140742), three (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140743)
Madoka on the guitar (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140744)
Yukari singing: one (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140746), two (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140748), three (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140749), four (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140750), five (http://natsumemaya.rubberslug.com/gallery/inv_info.asp?ItemID=140751)

[/ QUOTE ]
Nice cels. I've collected a lot of Ghibli, Tenchi Muyo, and others, but I've never seen Kimagure Orange Road cels for sale.

Amasawa

08-28-2006, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Komatsu's T-shirt has the face of an attractive woman on it. Perhaps it is a fan T-shirt for the singer Komotsu has his room dedicated to? What are those jackets they are wearing? At least they are having a good time dancing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think those kinds of jackets are associated with fan/supporters' clubs of various things like idol singers, baseball clubs etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
That makes sense. I've been told that "Seiko" (on the T-shirt) could be a girl's name. Perhaps that is the name of the singer he likes and the jacket is for her fan club.

Amasawa

08-28-2006, 02:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
[ QUOTE ]
Madoka's been flirting with Kyo a lot more recently

[/ QUOTE ]

I remember from watching the series last time, she has said to him in a sexy teasing way "Ka-sug-a-kun" when they were alone a couple of times, but can't remember the episodes. It made my neck hairs bristle though /images/graemlins/noseblee.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I think that is in episode 33: Mystical Madoka after Madoka eats one of Kurumi's truth mushrooms. Odd that you would have a fight or flight reaction to Madoka getting sexy. /images/graemlins/stunned1.gif /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Njr Scrawl

08-28-2006, 03:48 PM

Its a wanting to jump into the TV set & grab Madoka for myself reaction! Also awestruck because Madoka's voice has so much adult sexuality in it.

Ep.33 I remember now! There is another scene which might have been by the swings, from the edge of my memory.

[ QUOTE ]
1. Because of Kyosuke, Madoka has calmed down and is being a much nicer person.
2. Kyosuke's association with her has shown them that she isn't that dangerous anymore. In a previous episode Komatsu says something to the effect that although she is being good now, she used to be a real badass.

[/ QUOTE ]

She can still silence them, or make them gibber in fear with a look.
Its that look which Hikaru has copied & uses on poor Yuusaku.

Madoka's badass past is touched on more in future episodes.

Njr Scrawl

08-28-2006, 03:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I've never seen Kimagure Orange Road cels for sale.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some good ones have been on ebay over the last few months. I've bought 3 that way. Another I was outbid on, & the best was too expensive to consider, $350 to start IIRC.

Shsway

08-28-2006, 11:37 PM

Continuing the string of episodes relating to the Kasuga family powers, Kazuya steps up to demonstrate a not so easy way to go where Kyosuke wouldn't usually dare to go.

Tomcat

08-29-2006, 12:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
[ QUOTE ]
I thought Kyosuke's abusive fantasy was one of the low points of the series.

[/ QUOTE ]

His whole behaviour, from volunteering Madoka in class, was strange. Then his training enthusiasm. I think he just got carried away..

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't recall him volunteering her. He was the ONLY one that didn't point to the empty chair. And don't think so badly about him in his thoughts. While it is true that Madoka will not put up with strangers trying to force her into something, her attitude is a little different with Kyosuke. If he is dead set on something, and there is no other way around it, she will back down. It's just that Kyosuke has not figured out his to assert himself with her just yet. It does happen several times in the series, though.

And, I certainly think that he would loose major points if he was abusive, but as she has slapped him several times, I'm not so certain that he couldn't slap her, if the situation called for it. in fact, he DOES slap her in the CD Drama Cassette Tape no Dengen, at which not only did she immediately explain the situation to him, they ended up in a much better situation afterwards.

-TC

Tomcat

08-29-2006, 12:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Its a wanting to jump into the TV set & grab Madoka for myself reaction! Also awestruck because Madoka's voice has so much adult sexuality in it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm in full agreement with your reaction. There is a reason why Madoka is my #2 favorite anime character of all time, and it's probably because of her that KOR is also my #2 favorite anime of all time. But... I think we also have similar tastes here anyways!

It's probably a good thing I didn't see this show when it aired. I would probably have went 100% otaku and never made anything of my life. I'd have judged every prospective mate against the Madoka standard, and they would likely all have failed. I can still do it now, but life's taught me to be more realistic.

[ QUOTE ]
She can still silence them, or make them gibber in fear with a look.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which I don't think is actually a bad thing. There is no doubt that Madoka can take care of herself, and can actually take care of others as well. This is one major pull for Kyosuke. I think it's this attribute that she sees in Kyosuke as well, which is their common ground, and part of her interest in him.

It's just too bad that he just doesn't get it... But, again, at this point in the story, he's only a 14 year old boya.

-TC

KK1

08-29-2006, 04:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
To the relief of both myself and Madoka, this isn't that kind of ghost story.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/cry00000.gif I'm never going to catch up.

OK so this anime episode starts off what is in the manga a 4 chapter arc "Ticket Trouble!" "Panic at the Beach!" "Fire Lure Love Song" and "The Island of Forbidden Love" vol3 chapters 2-5, the first aren't animated and ep 18 vs "Fire Lure Love Song" and 19 vs "The Island of Forbidden Love" have alot of changes. So anyway in the anime we get that little flashback at Abcd of how they got the tickets from a regular customer, Yuusaku overhears cause he was in the bathroom(and Hikaru acts sheepishly in front of him, wah? anytime a character acts out character it's the anime rewriting the manga Hikaru would never act that way arounf Yuusaku), in the manga Hikaru overhears girls talking about how a retreat with her boyfriend will be the right oppurrtunity for a first kiss(and just to show how different the anime and manga are, the girl is going with Hatta /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif) and Hikaru thinks that's what she needs to do with Kyousuke, but how? Anyway when she gets home her mother has won tickets (in a dept store lottery)for 2 nights and 3 days at Ooshima beach (islands off of Tokyo bay), which Hikaru says is where Madoka promised to go with her so her mother gives them to her.(2 tickets, each good for a couple or 1 person ) Hikaru though decides to get Kyousuke to come too thinking to give him the chance to kiss her, however being Hikaru she does it rather oddly. She gives both tickets to Kyousuke saying she doesn't need them but she'll be waiting(thinking he will ask her and she and Madoka can use 1 ticket and him the other), Kyousuke however thinks she can't go at all (and is actually dissapointed because he would have liked to go with her) and wonders who he can take instead (thinking the tickets are only good for 1 person each), he decides against a guy and trying to decide between his sisters and then wonders if it would be too forward to ask Madoka. He gets the courage and explains it's just the 2 of them and she surprisingly says yes. However that night Hikaru calls her and reminds her about them making plans to go to the beach and asks her to go the same day Kyousuke just asked her, she about to decline when Hikaru tells her Kyousuke is coming too. Madoka agrees to go but gets pissed thinking back to Kyousuke telling her it would only be the 2 of them and starts ripping the ticket but stops when Yuusaku calls (somehow hearing Hikaru's going to the beach he wants to know the details) and she decides to get Kyousuke back by giving Yuusaku the ticket. (who wants to go to be with Hikaru of course not knowing about Kyousuke) So the day they leave Kyousuke goes to the train where he thinks he's meeting Madoka, but in her seat finds Yuusaku, they both get mad and try leaving but the train has already started leaving. At the beach they go their separate ways and Hikaru finds Kyousuke who has no clue why she's there(thinking he's stuck with only Yuusaku), until he realizes she meant "she'll be waiting" - at the beach, but Hikaru is acting all nice and well behaved so he figures it's not so bad after all. Yuusaku meanwhile meets up with Madoka who offers to show where they're staying when they all bump into each other, Hikaru has no idea why Yuusaku is there and Kyousuke gives an excited "You came" to Madoka who of course is still pissed and gives him the cold shoulder, confusing him even more because he has no idea why she would be mad.
So the next chapter is the day at the beach with Hikaru trying to get Kyousuke to kiss her and Kyousuke trying not to because of Madoka and still confused as to why she is so mad at him since she stood him up. (Yuusaku just spends his time tracking Kyousuke wanting to pound him)So Hikaru goes for ice cream and 3 jerks start harrassing her, she of course can take care of herself but accidently steps on a broken bottle giving them the upper hand, Kyouske and Yuusaku come looking for her and when they see her in trouble Yuu goes running ahead and chases the jerks away. Kyousuke decides to let him take care of her so he can go see why Madoka is mad. She is showering off the sand (you know those outdoor showers at the beach) when the same jerks start harrassing her she starts kicking the crap out of them but unfortunately her bikini top comes undone in the back and she's stuck holding it up when Kyousuke shows up (he immediately has a nosebleed, but decides he better defend her) he of course gets punched and is about to use the power but decides that would be so lame compared to Yuusaku who was able to do it alone so he tackles one guy and tells Madoka to run, but while Kyousuke is getting pummeled she uses the distraction to instead wrap her towel into a make shift top and then beat the crap out of the guys. As Madoka helps Kyousuke she tells him he better be off since someone special must be waiting for him and he finally gets why she's mad and tells her he misunderstood Hikaru and didn't n=know she was coming too, Madoka doesn't really believe him but he gets very insistent and actually calls her by her full name(the first time he ever says Madoka), she then believes him and the chapter ends with him joking he should have come a little later so maybe he could have seen more, repissing her off. (Hikaru is slapping Yuusaku while he tries to put medicine on her) /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif.
Now is the ghost story "Fire Lure Love Song", in the manga they're just eating at the inn where they're staying and overhear a girl tell the ghost story (it's the same except the girls love gets shot with an arrow and falls into the sea and she throws herself off the cliff after him and she reappears when the fishermen light their lures at night,hence the title) to someone else. And everyone is spooked except Hikaru (including Madoka). Then it's the same where they all see the Koto staying at the inn(they didn't see her earlier like in the anime because she's not there to surf, there's no surfing or "Big Monday"), then Madoka and Kyousuke go to look for her t-shirt and Madoka faints because Koto comes up behind her tapping her on the shoulder and looking all shimmery. Kyousuke freaks out the same way, but it ends up the same and she tells him the story(in the manga she and her boyfriend were surfers and it used to be a surfers spot but she was careless and went out in stormy waves and her boyfriend died saving her so she comes back every year on the anniversary of his death but this is the last because she's getting married in the fall.(that's it ) Kyousku carries Madoka back, she wakes up and when she realizes she's being carried makes him put her down (headlock) she starts to storm off but stops when they see the fire lures on the water and stop to watch them, it ends with Kyousuke thinking how cute it is she's afraid of ghosts. That's it no Madoka surfing a tsunami /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

KK1

08-29-2006, 04:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Hey, it's the Orange Lagoon! Or not...at any rate, Madoka and Kyosuke finally get a chance to be themselves without the other elements popping in at all times.

[/ QUOTE ]

vol 3 chap 5 "The Island of Forbidden Love"
this has a bunch of changes, why the anime did it I don't know because they're kinda odd compared to the manga.

This starts with Kyousuke awaking on the beach looking up to see a shimmering Madoka in a bikini, asking him if all he's going to do is nap, then saying lets swim(she'll give him lessons). We then get a flashback to how the day began, Hikaru makes the suggestion to row to the island (and team up with Kyouskue) but he suggests drawing lots and ends up with Madoka. Then the same, a current separates them, he uses the power to row to the island. They decide Yuu and Hikaru are OK and decide to have fun on the island (there's no mermaid scene, why would Madoka need a bath anyway?) Kyousuke doesn't tie up the boat and the fun ends when they realize its gone. Madoka rejects the idea of waiting for a passing boat and decides to head down the island looking what's further down the beach, alone Kyousuke tests the power and like the anime can't make it to the other beach. He then saves her from falling the same way, they then just decide to wait and with the emergency kit build a fire, no apple scene though. And their talk is different with Madoka saying not getting rescued might not be so bad and if that should happen(as their faces draw closer) "I'd probably..."
Co**blockers...I mean...Hikaru and Yuusaku come walking up and of course Hikaru gives Kyousuke a leaping hug, turns out they washed up on the same island on the other side and feared the worst when they saw their empty boat drift past, well the mood is killed and Madoka suggests they leave, Hikaru thinks campfires are romantic and they should stay 2 or 3 more days and Yuusaku is dissapointed Kyousuke is still alive. The end, no Kurumi, Hatta, and the others, no rescue helicoptor, no talk about Madoka's suggestion she spend the night when she was drunk. I guess the anime felt they needed the rest of the cast to be involved and to spice things up, though kind of an odd choice having Madoka re-explain that night on the bench as the first time she said that and she was just being a badass, and also giving them a contact kiss. Yet changing her bikini to a one-peice. And in the manga he is referring to the "Blue Lagoon" when he's talking about the movie.

KK1

08-29-2006, 05:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
With the setting apparently being a compulsory class outing(?) this episode contains actual conflict between the girls, ass-kicking...and short skirts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Vol 4 chap 5 "A Suspicious Hikaru-chan", you can see how much the anime jumps around with the manga stories. In the manga this is sorta different, there's no school tennis camp with a senior(do they even do that in Japan?) It's a 2-day school weekend (instead of the normal 1) and Kyousuke agrees to go with Komatsu to a highland pension(guest house, like a bunch of lodges in the counrty)for some fishing(and Komatsu picking up chicks) and Hikaru and Madoka also go off together. When they get there Kyousuke spots Shuu and his band(the band story already happened in the manga) and soon M&H run into Kyousuke, turns out Shuu's band was playing and staying there so Hikaru came along since Madoka was going to play. Hikaru can't believe her luck and start dragging Kyousuke away and Madoka suggests she has to practice anyway when Shuu and Yukari are seen walking away in tennis outfits, and tell Madoka they probably won't practice since the other band members are late so they might as well have fun so Kyousuke suggests he can come with them now and Hikaru drags her along. They go to play tennis to and it's Kyousuke vs each girl in turn (unlike the anime he doesn't suck at tennis) and quickly beats Hikaru and starts a marathon match with Madoka, which bores Hikaru who wanders away thinking she's being ignored. The band starts practice and comes to tell Madoka stopping Madoka and Kyousuke long enough to finally notice Hikaru is gone. Hikaru comes upon Komatsu fishing and grabs his pole (heh heh) when she notices he has a nibble but falls into the lake Kyousuke arrives and with Komatsu not able to swim either dives in after Hikaru when Komatsu falls in too. He uses the power to bring a boat over to grab and they all get out he then berates them for being careless. Which fires up Hikaru who returns with a "It's because you only want to play tennis with Madoka!" and storms off beeeeda! to a surprised kyousuke.
That night Hikaru and Madoka(and Komatsu) are with the band drinking and Hikaru is still stewing while getting wasted not wanting to deal with an angry Hikaru Madoka goes to bed. The steaming and stwed Hikaru goes over to Kyousuke's pension where he's sleeping (tired from power using) and grabs him asking "Am I the one you really lik...?" when Kyousuke mumbles "Hikaru-chan is drowning..." she then realizes how he did save her even when he can't swin and forgives him and kisses his cheek, she then goes back and wakes up Madoka(who doesn't sleep in a nightgown in the manga, just panties and a cut-off /images/graemlins/wink.gif ) to have another drink, Madoka just thinks she's still acting weird. And Kyousuke wakes up wondering why he dreamt Hikaru kissed him when we see his real dream of "Hikaru-chan is downing...me". /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif
So no twins, or a lecherous sempai, no Hatta (surprised Komatsu was even here), or a school tennis camp. And Kyousuke doesn't suck at tennis so no private lessons(I guess they needed to make up something to really make Hikaru jealous).

Njr Scrawl

08-29-2006, 11:10 AM

You can have too much Kazuya, & here the limit is reached, but not quite exceeded. He has better stories & importance ahead (no pun intended)!

This episode is saved from absolute mediocricy by Madoka dealing out more street justice to some deserving punks. A filler episode to me.

Natsume_Maya

08-29-2006, 11:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Nice cels. I've collected a lot of Ghibli, Tenchi Muyo, and others, but I've never seen Kimagure Orange Road cels for sale.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. Though my KOR cels are cheap ones. No close-ups, or face concealed etc. I can't afford Madoka cels, so I thought I'd start a Yukari collection /images/graemlins/happy.gif Madoka's just a girl, but Yukari's a woman /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Your Studio Ghibli collection is impressive though.

Njr Scrawl

08-29-2006, 11:34 AM

So different interesting happenings, but less chemistry.

Madoka in manga sleepwear waking up is one of the cutest, sexiest Akemi Takeda pictures of her. Top pic. (http://madoka.ayukawa2.free.fr/goodies/korgcd.htm)

In "Message in Rouge" OVA, Madoka wears a T-shirt & short shorts.

Natsume_Maya

08-29-2006, 11:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Best scene is in class when Madoka walks in & the new "decisive" Kyosuke winks at her. She's startled for a second, & then says deliberately haughtily "something in your eye?" & walks on by. Nice tease!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I liked that scene too.

I didn't think the episode was too bad. There were other scenes which I liked as well, whether for the humour or otherwise, such as when he plays to the crowd of onlooking students after his double somersault fall retrieving the shuttlecock /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif I thought the scenes of Madoka a bit confused by the new Kyosuke were fun too (although perhaps taken just a bit too far).

Interesting that in this episode Kyosuke being decisive means flirting with all the girls. If this is supposed to suggest what he would be like if he was more decisive, then it shows him in a poor light - it suggests that what was apparently compassion is actually just indecision.

Good voice acting by Furuya Tooru in this episode. His decisive self sounds markedly different.

Other thoughts:
- If I was Manami, I'd be pissed off having to make breakfast (and lunch) for the rest of the family.
- Kyosuke with his hair slicked back and bow at Mobius looks like a young Mr Fried Chicken to me /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Isuzu Inugami

08-29-2006, 11:46 AM

For various reasons I got a late start on this whole project, but I'm gonna throw in my three (adjusted for inflation) cents at this point, though I still lag far behind....

Thus far in the series, I think Madoka has been walking a very ambiguous line, even in her own mind. Hikaru, her best friend, is obviously aggressively chasing Kyousuke, who seems not completely cold to it, but it seems clear (to me, anyway) that he's more interested in Madoka. Madoka knows she ought to "do the right thing" and tell Kyousuke to stop it, but can't bring herself to do it, because she is herself intrigued by him.

So she's sort of been in a holding pattern through the series. Not really doing anything to encourage Kyousuke, but doing nothing to discourage him either. This way, she gets to be around him (maybe hoping her interest will dissolve over time--only it seems to be progressing in the opposite direction!) without feeling she's betraying Hikaru's trust. I think there's an element of self-deception at work here, too.

But all this comes to a head in ep. 15. (The flashback is quite telling--perhaps Madoka is starting to feel put-upon, tired of giving the nice things she finds to Hikaru.) She tries to support Hikaru like she thinks a good friend should, but ultimately she can't bring herself to, weaking to Kyousuke's barrage of phone calls. She is finally forced to face the fact that she likes Kyousuke enough to compete with Hikaru over him. I'm interested to see how the dynamic of her relationship with him changes over the next episodes.

And on a side note, I find something a little weird about a girl who randomly plays the saxophone (not the most subtle of instruments...) in public parks, but maybe the townsfolk are used to it. I mean, they seem used to Umao-san and Ushiko-san too, so....

Natsume_Maya

08-29-2006, 11:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
You can have too much Kazuya, & here the limit is reached, but not quite exceeded. He has better stories & importance ahead (no pun intended)!

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, I didn't think this episode was too bad. I liked the comedy in the episode, especially when Kyosuke in Kazuya's body is stalking Madoka /images/graemlins/happy.gif

The story of Carol's life was fun too! I can't believe Yuusaku thought Carol's lines were "cool" (Kazuya I can understand) /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

"Mini Mini Kasuga" /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[ QUOTE ]
This episode is saved from absolute mediocricy by Madoka dealing out more street justice to some deserving punks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Strangely enough, when I was watching this scene I got this impression that when Madoka grows up, she could head Public Security Section 9 /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Yes, generally filler, as a lot of episodes have been since the first 6 or so episodes. For a lot of the episodes to date, you could have rearranged the order without really affecting the characters' relationships. However, in this episode we do find out that Madoka has a photo of her and Kyosuke on her desk.

Njr Scrawl

08-29-2006, 11:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Kyosuke with his hair slicked back and bow at Mobius look like a young Mr Fried Chicken to me

[/ QUOTE ]

Lounge lizard! :D

I think another of the things Madoka likes about Kyosuke is that he makes her laugh & cheers her up. Sometimes goofiness like this, sometimes antics or just through his nature. She would not suffer anyone else the same, except Yuusaku who she has known since childhood & has some things in common with Kyosuke.

Natsume_Maya

08-29-2006, 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shimauma said:
Thus far in the series, I think Madoka has been walking a very ambiguous line, even in her own mind. Hikaru, her best friend, is obviously aggressively chasing Kyousuke, who seems not completely cold to it, but it seems clear (to me, anyway) that he's more interested in Madoka. Madoka knows she ought to "do the right thing" and tell Kyousuke to stop it, but can't bring herself to do it, because she is herself intrigued by him.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's probably two sides of the same coin, but I tend to look at the relationship from another angle. I would described Madoka's behaviour as rather that she's attracted to Kyosuke but can't bring herself to take it further because Hikaru's her friend, and like a younger sister to her.

I don't think doing the right thing in this situation would be letting a friend chase a guy when you know that guy is interested in you. No one would end up truly happy in that event.

[ QUOTE ]
And on a side note, I find something a little weird about a girl who randomly plays the saxophone (not the most subtle of instruments...) in public parks,

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only not subtle, but also kinda gross /images/graemlins/tongue.gif I know the saxophone has a cool image, but IMO it's pretty gross how the saliva and water condensation collects at the bottom of the instrument and you have to pour it all out after you've finished playing...

Njr Scrawl

08-29-2006, 12:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shimauma said:
For various reasons I got a late start on this whole project, but I'm gonna throw in my three (adjusted for inflation) cents at this point, though I still lag far behind....

Thus far in the series, I think Madoka has been walking a very ambiguous line, even in her own mind. Hikaru, her best friend, is obviously aggressively chasing Kyousuke, who seems not completely cold to it, but it seems clear (to me, anyway) that he's more interested in Madoka. Madoka knows she ought to "do the right thing" and tell Kyousuke to stop it, but can't bring herself to do it, because she is herself intrigued by him.

So she's sort of been in a holding pattern through the series. Not really doing anything to encourage Kyousuke, but doing nothing to discourage him either. This way, she gets to be around him (maybe hoping her interest will dissolve over time--only it seems to be progressing in the opposite direction!) without feeling she's betraying Hikaru's trust. I think there's an element of self-deception at work here, too.

But all this comes to a head in ep. 15. (The flashback is quite telling--perhaps Madoka is starting to feel put-upon, tired of giving the nice things she finds to Hikaru.) She tries to support Hikaru like she thinks a good friend should, but ultimately she can't bring herself to, weaking to Kyousuke's barrage of phone calls. She is finally forced to face the fact that she likes Kyousuke enough to compete with Hikaru over him. I'm interested to see how the dynamic of her relationship with him changes over the next episodes.

And on a side note, I find something a little weird about a girl who randomly plays the saxophone (not the most subtle of instruments...) in public parks, but maybe the townsfolk are used to it. I mean, they seem used to Umao-san and Ushiko-san too, so....

[/ QUOTE ]

Madoka knows that she "discovered" Kyosuke first. And liked him enough to give him her hat. There may also be more to how she feels /images/graemlins/wink.gif

IMO at the start, Madoka is not ready to consider a relationship with any guy. She's still very singular about anyone on an equal level. Its easier to have & communicate with juniors & seniors as social ranking & age have their own rules without imposing the same rivalry as equals.

Kyosuke, starting with episodes 4 & 5, when they have private together time, starts to make Madoka feel at ease & his being neither intimidating or acting as though feeling threatened by her, but treating her as an equal, starts to make Madoka feel less an outcast. Being a loner is hard enough for western kids, but probably worse for Japanese.

However Madoka is not sure until ep.15. or later of how she really feels, & Hikaru has had a big headstart.

It could be that Madoka doesn't want to get hurt by becoming too attatched to a guy, & then loosing him. Her remarks to Hikaru about men are bitter enough to indicate Madoka had loved & been dumped in a previous relationship.

Message in Rouge OVA also has Madoka making bitter remarks about male infidelity, & she seems to understand the tiff Shuu & Yukari have from an adult POV.

Isuzu Inugami

08-29-2006, 12:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:

I don't think doing the right thing in this situation would be letting a friend chase a guy when you know that guy is interested in you. No one would end up truly happy in that event.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good point, but given the extent to which Kyousuke lets Hikaru run him around/feed him/cling on him, Madoka might think he's interested enough in Hikaru too. Although he has dropped hints as to who he prefers. Although whenever he drops hints, he usually then promptly sabotages himself by letting Hikaru take charge of him....

Amasawa

08-29-2006, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
You can have too much Kazuya, & here the limit is reached, but not quite exceeded. He has better stories & importance ahead (no pun intended)!

This episode is saved from absolute mediocricy by Madoka dealing out more street justice to some deserving punks. A filler episode to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Never mind. I confused the episodes.

KK1

08-29-2006, 02:52 PM

Here's some manga visuals

redhat (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/4263823b5f.jpg)
seifuku (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/6d95bdf339.jpg)
balancebeam (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/e3edb5dc26.jpg)
surprise (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/daa813a9bc.jpg)
happy (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/4ae10c7a04.jpg)
throw (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/52a081c4bf.jpg)
Manami (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/2a3ec524fd.jpg)
drinking (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/21ae3de850.jpg)
master (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/bd2ee17bcb.jpg)
Hikaruand kutsusando (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/9861f6854d.jpg)
hikaru (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/05095ffd58.jpg)
angry hikaru (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/5f6587bb16.jpg)
a model? (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/55a5b125fa.jpg)
the other pic (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/460d04f795.jpg)
the pic (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/3b52b90947.jpg)
chibi (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/e8c0fef388.jpg)
Yuusaku (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/ef2ba5143d.jpg)
the twins (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/52b108c202.jpg)
Umao & Ushiko (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/b7cd8d47f8.jpg)
more hikaru (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/ecd8989394.jpg)
bikini (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/e753aaf6c7.jpg)
the island (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/a3756d28e9.jpg)
Hikaru and kutsusando (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/9861f6854d.jpg)
the dress (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/338bd1b9d7.jpg)
that changes (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/11c35c980a.jpg)
Hikaru's look (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/e5d0b92b01.jpg)
the manga double date (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/65a7c8cf28.jpg)
cover vol 4 (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/3455e997ea.jpg)
sister complex (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/cd87b78071.jpg)
tennis anyone? (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/533e73b48f.jpg)

Njr Scrawl

08-29-2006, 02:56 PM

THe only thing Hikaru & hints have in common, is 2 letters. Hikaru is not subtle, & does not understand the concept of subtlety. Period.

If Kyosuke got hard & said "no", she would run to Madoka who would blame Kyosuke (as well as herself maybe) for not taking the stance before.

Madoka has already teased (I think, teased) Kyosuke once, in the episode where she was considering moving to the US. She said perhaps it would be for the best if she left, which Kyosuke IIRC denied very decisively! Madoka has Kyosuke already. The question she must be asking herself is does she want to keep him so badly. She must be in a fix as to what to do, & how far does she want to go. A more extreme & convenient situation is needed to push Madoka into pushing Kyosuke to break off with Hikaru completely, because no half measures are likely to work.

Hikaru isn't just clingy, her obsession - which IMO has fed off itself - has turned into a puppy-love-groupie mental state of a kind similar to how teenage girls can get fixated on rock stars from hormonal changes. I don't think either Kyosuke or Madoka realise that Hikaru's mental state is like that.

There are other examples of this in other anime, with varying degrees of severity. Ibuki's crush on Godai in Maison Ikkoku is most obvious, Asuka for Kaji in Evangelion, Usagi for Mamorou in Sailor Moon (Stars shows how bad Usagi's emotional dependence is), Miaka for Tamahone in Fushigi Yugi as just some others. Kiminozo & Koi Kaze also have their fixated desperate teen girls.

plaidwolf

08-29-2006, 04:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:

Other thoughts:
- If I was Manami, I'd be pissed off having to make breakfast (and lunch) for the rest of the family.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, she is getting there very quickly ....as will be seen in Ep 28 "Dangerous Decision! Manami-Chan's Big Adventure", it is coming to a head....she is aggrivated by everyone depending upon her for the basics to the point that she has no real life to call her own ..although she will also find out there are worse things in life than to be bored! Thankfully, we see another side of Kyo in this ep....the concerned older brother who realizes that in some ways he failed her...

Tune in!

plaidwolf

08-29-2006, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
THe only thing Hikaru & hints have in common, is 2 letters. Hikaru is not subtle, & does not understand the concept of subtlety. Period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where Wolfie comes from, we would say Hikaru is 'as subtle as a punch in the nose.' She is what we might call 'obsessive-compulsive' and you cant really expect a 15 year old to understand it all. Sadly, if you try to remove what the OC is hot and heavy over, they obsess over it more, *grin* Wolfie ought know...i worked with such a person for almost four years! And trust me, obsessives cannot simply 'just let go'....they are constitutionally incapable of doing so, even if that was what they truly wanted

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
If Kyosuke got hard & said "no", she would run to Madoka who would blame Kyosuke (as well as herself maybe) for not taking the stance before.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree. In truth, it wouldnt be anyone's fault...Madoka could blame herself or Kyo, for what happened, but the personal dynamics at work here preclude such a thing...Kyo in his heart, wants to do the right things. But when you are torn as he is, and let's face it, most of us guys wouldnt mind two girls liking us, but at some point, we figure out who is the best one. Kyo really hasnt gotten to that point yet in his growth

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Madoka has already teased (I think, teased) Kyosuke once, in the episode where she was considering moving to the US. She said perhaps it would be for the best if she left, which Kyosuke IIRC denied very decisively! Madoka has Kyosuke already. The question she must be asking herself is does she want to keep him so badly. She must be in a fix as to what to do, & how far does she want to go. A more extreme & convenient situation is needed to push Madoka into pushing Kyosuke to break off with Hikaru completely, because no half measures are likely to work.

[/ QUOTE ]

And i think her seeming whimiscal attitude is reflective of the fact that in some ways, she is as indecisive as Kyo. If a girl truly wants a guy, she will move heaven and earth to be by his side and the fact she hasnt done that yet shows that in many respects, she hasnt matured yet either

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Hikaru isn't just clingy, her obsession - which IMO has fed off itself - has turned into a puppy-love-groupie mental state of a kind similar to how teenage girls can get fixated on rock stars from hormonal changes. I don't think either Kyosuke or Madoka realise that Hikaru's mental state is like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

*writes a prescription for Hikaru to seek professional help.....*

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
There are other examples of this in other anime, with varying degrees of severity. Ibuki's crush on Godai in Maison Ikkoku is most obvious, Asuka for Kaji in Evangelion, Usagi for Mamorou in Sailor Moon (Stars shows how bad Usagi's emotional dependence is), Miaka for Tamahone in Fushigi Yugi as just some others. Kiminozo & Koi Kaze also have their fixated desperate teen girls.

[/ QUOTE ]

All i can really comment on here is Usagi in Sailor Moon....yes, Stars exposes just how dependent upon him she is, but the whole seperation process forced her to develop some ways to cope without him...admittedly she was doing a not-so-good job of it, but it may have been better if she had contact with him (or knew what happened to him). She did overcome this and was able to defeat Chaos without the assist of any flying roses...

but enough of Odango-Atama....lets get back to a real cutie....Madoka-san! (Usagi GLARES daggers at Wolfie!)

Amasawa

08-29-2006, 06:19 PM

Thanks for sharing the images. Too bad the server is so slow.

Interesting that the manga has Madoka (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/4263823b5f.jpg) in shorts, for the red hat meeting, and the anime has her in long pants. The anime really does seem to avoid drawing her bare legs.

Hikaru is a lot cuter in the manga than the anime, Madoka is not as hot. Makes the indecision easier to understand.

ESPRIT (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/11c35c980a.jpg) seems like the perfect thing for Hikaru to have on a T-shirt.

Manami (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/2a3ec524fd.jpg) is very cute in that manga image.

Amasawa

08-29-2006, 06:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Best scene is in class when Madoka walks in & the new "decisive" Kyosuke winks at her. She's startled for a second, & then says deliberately haughtily "something in your eye?" & walks on by. Nice tease!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I liked that scene too.

[/ QUOTE ]
The surprise was nice. I'm not that fond of the cold Madoka so I preferred her reaction to Kyosuke's "...it's because of you." Which caused Madoka to retreat to the restroom to sort out her emotions. I enjoyed seeing her feelings for Kyosuke come to the surface for a change.

Too bad she had to return to find Kyosuke using the same line on another girl. What could have been a big step forward became a big step backwards.

[ QUOTE ]

I didn't think the episode was too bad. There were other scenes which I liked as well, whether for the humour or otherwise, such as when he plays to the crowd of onlooking students after his double somersault fall retrieving the shuttlecock /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif I thought the scenes of Madoka a bit confused by the new Kyosuke were fun too (although perhaps taken just a bit too far).

[/ QUOTE ]
The smooth Kyosuke was only tolerable for a short period of time, but it was worth it for the confused Madoka scenes.

[ QUOTE ]

Interesting that in this episode Kyosuke being decisive means flirting with all the girls. If this is supposed to suggest what he would be like if he was more decisive, then it shows him in a poor light - it suggests that what was apparently compassion is actually just indecision.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. That really doesn't fit his personality. I know they did it to spice up the episode with Hikaru angst, but it really isn't Kyosuke. If he was interested in any girl, but just indecisive, he would not be so preoccupied with Madoka. If this episode had been true to his personality, other girls wouldn't have been involved. He would be overtly brushing off Hikaru in favor of Madoka. The other girls were added so that Hikaru can continue to be unaware (or feign ignorance) of Kyosuke liking Madoka.

Amasawa

08-29-2006, 07:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
vol 3 chap 5 "The Island of Forbidden Love"
this has a bunch of changes, why the anime did it I don't know because they're kinda odd compared to the manga.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks again for the thorough comparison.

[ QUOTE ]

This starts with Kyousuke awaking on the beach looking up to see a shimmering Madoka in a bikini, asking him if all he's going to do is nap, then saying lets swim(she'll give him lessons).

[/ QUOTE ]
One of the anime OP has Madoka in a white bikini, but I don't recall ever seeing her in a bikini in the episodes. The red one-piece is hot, but a bikini...

[ QUOTE ]
We then get a flashback to how the day began, Hikaru makes the suggestion to row to the island (and team up with Kyouskue) but he suggests drawing lots and ends up with Madoka.

[/ QUOTE ]
So, it isn't Yusaku wanting to show off, and no Yusaku swallowing a fishtail?

[ QUOTE ]
Then the same, a current separates them, he uses the power to row to the island. They decide Yuu and Hikaru are OK and decide to have fun on the island (there's no mermaid scene, why would Madoka need a bath anyway?)

[/ QUOTE ]
Who wouldn't want to bathe nude in a tropical waterfall? I just took Madoka's motivation as her being sensual. I'm not sure why the southern island fairy daydream/hallucination on Kyosuke's part. Perhaps to make it all seem more enchanting and less ecchi.

[ QUOTE ]
Kyousuke doesn't tie up the boat and the fun ends when they realize its gone.

[/ QUOTE ]
Two 15 year-olds beaching the boat on the sand, and not anticipating a rising tide, seems very plausible to me. Tieing it to rocks and having it come untied seems less plausible.

[ QUOTE ]
Madoka rejects the idea of waiting for a passing boat and decides to head down the island looking what's further down the beach, alone Kyousuke tests the power and like the anime can't make it to the other beach. He then saves her from falling the same way, they then just decide to wait and with the emergency kit build a fire, no apple scene though.

[/ QUOTE ]
I like the apple scene.

[ QUOTE ]
And their talk is different with Madoka saying not getting rescued might not be so bad and if that should happen(as their faces draw closer) "I'd probably..."

[/ QUOTE ]
What, what? What might she do?

[ QUOTE ]

Co**blockers...

[/ QUOTE ]
No comprendo.

[ QUOTE ]
I mean...Hikaru and Yuusaku come walking up and of course Hikaru gives Kyousuke a leaping hug, turns out they washed up on the same island on the other side and feared the worst when they saw their empty boat drift past, well the mood is killed and Madoka suggests they leave, Hikaru thinks campfires are romantic and they should stay 2 or 3 more days and Yuusaku is dissapointed Kyousuke is still alive.

[/ QUOTE ]
Other than the not getting rescued comment, the manga doesn't seem to move the K/M relationship forward quite as much as the anime.

[ QUOTE ]
The end, no Kurumi, Hatta, and the others, no rescue helicoptor, no talk about Madoka's suggestion she spend the night when she was drunk. I guess the anime felt they needed the rest of the cast to be involved and to spice things up,

[/ QUOTE ]
Probably something in the actor's contracts. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
though kind of an odd choice having Madoka re-explain that night on the bench as the first time she said that and she was just being a badass, and also giving them a contact kiss.

[/ QUOTE ]
The anime does seem to have Madoka preoccupied with what Kyosuke thinks about the "stay over" comment. However, it does give them something to discuss in an intimate conversation. The contact kiss was necessary to counter Madoka's dodging Kyosuke's first attempt to kiss her (before the cliff fall). Was that attempted kiss in the manga? Did they have the sand through the fingers bit?

Tomcat

08-29-2006, 09:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Too bad she had to return to find Kyosuke using the same line on another girl. What could have been a big step forward became a big step backwards.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised that she eventually forgave him for that. I've made a mistake once where I accidently let a girl I was just THINKING about dating know that I had a close friend that was a girl. She never talked to me again.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Interesting that in this episode Kyosuke being decisive means flirting with all the girls. If this is supposed to suggest what he would be like if he was more decisive, then it shows him in a poor light - it suggests that what was apparently compassion is actually just indecision.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. That really doesn't fit his personality. I know they did it to spice up the episode with Hikaru angst, but it really isn't Kyosuke. If he was interested in any girl, but just indecisive, he would not be so preoccupied with Madoka. If this episode had been true to his personality, other girls wouldn't have been involved. He would be overtly brushing off Hikaru in favor of Madoka. The other girls were added so that Hikaru can continue to be unaware (or feign ignorance) of Kyosuke liking Madoka.

[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder if he ended up hypnotizing himself for a little more than just being more decisive. Or, perhaps it is more of the case that he lost his ability to reason if something is right or not. It's been a long time since I was 14, but I can imagine that a normal 14 year old boy may "consider" the possibilities when confronted with a girl that may seem interested. Given that he is 100% decisive, his first thought would be the one he acts upon. If his first thought was "she is cute", then he's going to act on that. I think this is what really happened.

Kyosuke isn't a jerk, he has just lost any weighing of the pros and cons about his choices. In fact, he never gets past the first choice, so there isn't anything to consider.

Hell... even though I'm slightly older than Kyosuke would be today, I still consider my choices, and have some thoughts like he seems to have. Of course, age has taught me that the first thought is usually not the best option, especially when women are concerned.

-TC

Shsway

08-29-2006, 09:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
- That's some redheaded bully there, that Kyosuke bumps into. I chuckled when he was referred to a "kowai oniisan" later on

[/ QUOTE ]
How does "kowai oniisan" translate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Directly? I believe it's, "Scary big brother", or in this case, "Scary older dude". Animeigo's subs simply have it as "That guy", I believe.

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Its a wanting to jump into the TV set & grab Madoka for myself reaction! Also awestruck because Madoka's voice has so much adult sexuality in it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've certainly experienced a few moments like that with this show. Some folks in other programs have done it to me too, obviously (and on both language tracks), but Tsuru-san manages it sooo often...I love the fact hers is not a squeaky, cutesy tone. It's hard to believe that this alone would make Madoka DOUBT her charms!

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Because of Kyosuke, Madoka has calmed down and is being a much nicer person.
2. Kyosuke's association with her has shown them that she isn't that dangerous anymore. In a previous episode Komatsu says something to the effect that although she is being good now, she used to be a real badass.

[/ QUOTE ]

She can still silence them, or make them gibber in fear with a look.
Its that look which Hikaru has copied & uses on poor Yuusaku.

Madoka's badass past is touched on more in future episodes.

[/ QUOTE ]

One such ep is comin' right up! A particularly memorable one, I think, for several reasons.

(And you are so right about Hikaru's application of "the look".)

Tomcat

08-29-2006, 09:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
Here's some manga visuals

redhat (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/4263823b5f.jpg)

[/ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that didn't get any of these to work? It seems that this isn't exactly the most friendly server.

-TC

Shsway

08-29-2006, 09:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
- Yeah, the triple-zoom shot to Kyo's face and eyes (last one rendered in degrees of blue) rocks

[/ QUOTE ]
Where is this? I didn't notice it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right when Kyosuke sees Madoka and Shu coming out of that "Candy" place.

Shsway

08-29-2006, 10:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
I didn't think the episode was too bad. There were other scenes which I liked as well, whether for the humour or otherwise...I thought the scenes of Madoka a bit confused by the new Kyosuke were fun too...

[/ QUOTE ]

There is just something about seeing the girl get flustered, eh? Honestly, I ended up enjoying this alternate take on Kyosuke. An uber-shounen peacock!

[ QUOTE ]
Good voice acting by Furuya Tooru in this episode.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if you noticed, Tsuru Hiromi had to "step up" her mature tone to match his new one, beat for beat. Which makes those exchanges between them particularly fun and sexy.

[ QUOTE ]
- Kyosuke with his hair slicked back and bow at Mobius looks like a young Mr Fried Chicken to me /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif I'm just amazed that she was able to get past that ridiculous hair, after laughing at it like she did in episode 11. Granted, it might not have been arranged as badly this time, given that Kyo was probably that much more decisive about how he wielded that comb... /images/graemlins/wink.gif /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
Interesting that in this episode Kyosuke being decisive means flirting with all the girls. If this is supposed to suggest what he would be like if he was more decisive, then it shows him in a poor light - it suggests that what was apparently compassion is actually just indecision.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. That really doesn't fit his personality. I know they did it to spice up the episode with Hikaru angst, but it really isn't Kyosuke. If he was interested in any girl, but just indecisive, he would not be so preoccupied with Madoka. If this episode had been true to his personality, other girls wouldn't have been involved. He would be overtly brushing off Hikaru in favor of Madoka. The other girls were added so that Hikaru can continue to be unaware (or feign ignorance) of Kyosuke liking Madoka.

[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder if he ended up hypnotizing himself for a little more than just being more decisive. Or, perhaps it is more of the case that he lost his ability to reason if something is right or not. It's been a long time since I was 14, but I can imagine that a normal 14 year old boy may "consider" the possibilities when confronted with a girl that may seem interested. Given that he is 100% decisive, his first thought would be the one he acts upon. If his first thought was "she is cute", then he's going to act on that. I think this is what really happened.

Kyosuke isn't a jerk, he has just lost any weighing of the pros and cons about his choices. In fact, he never gets past the first choice, so there isn't anything to consider.

[/ QUOTE ]

I felt that it was both the result of a smattering of other things mixed in with that "decisive" train of thought, AND the loss of that ability to discern "right" from "wrong". One could get really heavy about the complexity of the average human mind, and so of the programming request that he reflected back at himself, but there are several instances of proof relating to the second point. All of these relating to the abuse of the power in this episode. Everytime he uses it, there seems to be a perfectly good reason for him to, yet most of what is actually accomplished through its use seems like the product of a heady amount of impulsiveness on Kasuga's part - thus the feeling that he isn't thinking things through, reasoning, judging the caution he should employ in a given situation, etc.

Lots of good lines in this one. Madoka's discussion on the roof gives us some food for thought:

"I'm the one who first discovered his charm!" and "I love him best."

To which Madoka, eyes shielded from the audience, says, "You're right."

And then, Hikaru re-enforces her unique brand of airheadedness with that line about Kyo being in his "Period of Rebellion". /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif Also, even in this state of mind, Kyo seemed to have a line just tailor-made for Hikaru, when he almost fell on her from that tree earlier, because I can't help but think that only she would have bought that without any more thought given to it...

Kyosuke is right, in that this is the first episode in which he asks Madoka out, rather than their agreeing to do something together, or him taking a suggestion from her. Sad, huh?

Manami: "Even under hypnosis you cause trouble." /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Other things I noticed/liked:
- Hey, that footage from when the class gets dismissed looks familiar...
- The scene where Kyosuke gets up and leaves the classroom, after having asked Madoka out, is brilliantly colored, as it makes him look "cool". I almost thought he was wearing different, tighter pants even (the way he's been drawn/is standing must be factoring in). That's something I forgot to mention for the last ep: the lush, beautiful work done with the inks
- Not only does Madoka get all blushy at the disco, she gets "jittery, love-love eyes" too!
- The "near-kiss/throwing you in the fountain" action
- I note that Kyo had to undo his condition himself, even if he did do it accidentally. I don't know why I was under the impression, before this viewing, that the good dunking given to him had been enough
- Hikaru's huge bento and helmeted look (just what was that on her head?)
- Madoka's fit of laughter at the end was well done

Shsway

08-29-2006, 10:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
I liked the comedy in the episode, especially when Kyosuke in Kazuya's body is stalking Madoka

[/ QUOTE ]

I never approve when he does that, but yeah, this episode made it particularly hilarious. And the bits from the film, oh God...these alone make the episode memorable.

Yusaku: "It..it's in your eyes...the k...ketchup."

Laughter and wonderings:
- The first scene with the exploding shoe lockers is a great piece of animation
- And just why would a bunch of girls trash Madoka's notebook, hmmmmmm...?
- That must have been some awkward standing position, for Kyosuke's foot to have been right where the see-saw came down...
- Kyosuke getting jealous of himself (of Kazuya in his body) is beyond stupid
- Kyo's crashing face-first into that blue car struck me as particularly funny, since he also knocks over a "No Parking" sign somewhere near it
- Madoka stops to look at a "Greenwood" poster on the street. Sakamoto Chika, who plays Kazuya, went on to play Kisaragi Shun in the Here is Greenwood OVA, which I think first came out in 1991
- That whole scene where the one punk is holding Kyo by the scruff of his neck was not drawn well enough to look believable, IMO. And these guys were picking on a 5-year-old??? Bah
- Madoka's up-thrust with the knee seems to be a signature/favored move. I was both disappointed and relieved that she didn't try to shatter that last punk's sunglasses
- When Kyosuke pays Kazuya back for getting him with the see-saw, I wondered whether The former would immediately feel the pain he had inflicted on his own body, upon leaping back into it. Not to mention that he was doing that, again, to a 5-year-old!
- Where'd Kazuya get the rope that he ties Kyo up with?
- Madoka consider's Kyo's attempt to kiss her (per Kazuya), "making up"? Hmmm...she even seems to be reaching for something, when she doesn't get it

Shsway

08-29-2006, 11:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
the dress (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/338bd1b9d7.jpg)

[/ QUOTE ]

Oooh, this is the best one. You know, I am stunned by how different Madoka looks from her anime counterpart, though everyone else in the cast (OK, maybe not Yusaku), is not that much different. And you know what, these drawings also make me think of Katsura Masakazu's work somehow (Madoka's facial expressions mostly). Did he read this series, I wonder, and was his art influenced in any way by it?

Overall, I think I prefer the look of the animated cast, but I am FASCINATED by the little details and dynamics of the manga. I know my eyes shine with a new sense of understanding, each time I read these summaries you post of events from the books. I thank you for the effort, as well as for taking the time to put up these scans.

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
Am I the only one that didn't get any of these to work?

[/ QUOTE ]

It took a number of reloads, but I got them all to show up. Also, the forums seemed to be having some problems earlier in the day...

Shsway

08-29-2006, 11:25 PM

Someone certainly proves themselves memorably in this ep, but that someone isn't Kasuga-kun.

Amasawa

08-29-2006, 11:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
Here's some manga visuals

redhat (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/4263823b5f.jpg)

[/ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that didn't get any of these to work? It seems that this isn't exactly the most friendly server.

-TC

[/ QUOTE ]
When I first tried it, the server reset itself after about three images. Before and after the reset, the load speed was abysmally slow.

Tomcat

08-29-2006, 11:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Someone certainly proves themselves memorably in this ep, but that someone isn't Kasuga-kun.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, while Hikaru definitely shines in her substitute role at the ABCB, I think that Kyosuke's actions actually speak louder to Madoka, after she figures out what the deal was. I'm sure that his strangely protective attitude was appreciated after it was revealed that the goons were after Madoka. But, before they attacked Hikaru, she didn't know about the goons, and I'm sure that she wondered what he was doing.

I think this episode is a good amount of foreshadowing for the future of Hikaru after high school. She seems to be a natural for being in the spotlight. Unfortunately, I'm sure that Madoka isn't exactly happy that her temporary replacement seems to be favored over her. The ABCB position is one of the things that she does for enjoyment (I doubt she needs the money), and it appears that Hikaru is taking that away from her as well.

In the end, we get some new insite into the character's personalities. Kyosuke wanting to protect without worrying the protected, Hikaru being a natural actress, and Madoka's extreme selflessness and kindness, matching her tough nature.

-TC

Amasawa

08-30-2006, 12:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
An uber-shounen peacock!

[/ QUOTE ]
There's a good phrase -- emplying three languages, no less!

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
Interesting that in this episode Kyosuke being decisive means flirting with all the girls. If this is supposed to suggest what he would be like if he was more decisive, then it shows him in a poor light - it suggests that what was apparently compassion is actually just indecision.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. That really doesn't fit his personality...

[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder if he ended up hypnotizing himself for a little more than just being more decisive. Or, perhaps it is more of the case that he lost his ability to reason if something is right or not. It's been a long time since I was 14, but I can imagine that a normal 14 year old boy may "consider" the possibilities when confronted with a girl that may seem interested. Given that he is 100% decisive, his first thought would be the one he acts upon. If his first thought was "she is cute", then he's going to act on that. I think this is what really happened.

Kyosuke isn't a jerk, he has just lost any weighing of the pros and cons about his choices. In fact, he never gets past the first choice, so there isn't anything to consider.

[/ QUOTE ]

I felt that it was both the result of a smattering of other things mixed in with that "decisive" train of thought, AND the loss of that ability to discern "right" from "wrong". One could get really heavy about the complexity of the average human mind, and so of the programming request that he reflected back at himself, but there are several instances of proof relating to the second point. All of these relating to the abuse of the power in this episode. Everytime he uses it, there seems to be a perfectly good reason for him to, yet most of what is actually accomplished through its use seems like the product of a heady amount of impulsiveness on Kasuga's part - thus the feeling that he isn't thinking things through, reasoning, judging the caution he should employ in a given situation, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]
I wonder if something was lost in translation? Perhaps the Japanese word he hypnotized himself with has a broader meaning than "decisive"? If it meant something like "assertive" or "aggressive" it might explain his behavior better.

[ QUOTE ]

Lots of good lines in this one. Madoka's discussion on the roof gives us some food for thought:

"I'm the one who first discovered his charm!" and "I love him best."

To which Madoka, eyes shielded from the audience, says, "You're right."

[/ QUOTE ]
That was a particularly poignant scene. As Hikaru starts out, Madoka is looking up into the sky. You can tell she is uncomfortable. Hikaru is really putting her into a tight spot. In the previous episode Kazuya made Kyosuke aware that he can't really have it both ways. Now Hikaru is making Madoka very much aware that she (Madoka) is being duplicitous.

[ QUOTE ]

And then, Hikaru re-enforces her unique brand of airheadedness with that line about Kyo being in his "Period of Rebellion". /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
That was funny. A comic relief to a meaningful scene. Without it, Madoka would have to go off brooding about deceiving Hikaru.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, even in this state of mind, Kyo seemed to have a line just tailor-made for Hikaru, when he almost fell on her from that tree earlier, because I can't help but think that only she would have bought that without any more thought given to it...

[/ QUOTE ]
Hikaru will happily swallow any line, comment, or event that is favorable, and conversely discount any information that is unfavorable to her K romance. It makes sense that someone who is as capable of denial as Hikaru would also have such an amazing ability to believe. She is her own spin doctor.

[ QUOTE ]

Kyosuke is right, in that this is the first episode in which he asks Madoka out, rather than their agreeing to do something together, or him taking a suggestion from her. Sad, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]
He came close in Hikaru's Super Transformation episode, but was "...helpless to tactics like that."

[ QUOTE ]

Other things I noticed/liked:
- Not only does Madoka get all blushy at the disco, she gets "jittery, love-love eyes" too!

[/ QUOTE ]
Even a hands-on-cheeks moment.

[ QUOTE ]

- The "near-kiss/throwing you in the fountain" action

[/ QUOTE ]
And, nearly drowning him. She was relentless.

[ QUOTE ]

- I note that Kyo had to undo his condition himself, even if he did do it accidentally. I don't know why I was under the impression, before this viewing, that the good dunking given to him had been enough

[/ QUOTE ]
Same thing happened to me. I thought it was the dunking, but just noticed that he actually re-hypnotized himself to be indecisive.

[ QUOTE ]

- Hikaru's huge bento and helmeted look (just what was that on her head?)

[/ QUOTE ]
A cooking pot turned into a war helmet. I've seen this in other anime -- can't recall where.

[ QUOTE ]

- Madoka's fit of laughter at the end was well done

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, the redemption. Can't end a Kimagure Orange Road TV episode without redemption. It wouldn't be as enjoyable. To .... with all this modern angst.

Amasawa

08-30-2006, 12:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Yusaku: "It..it's in your eyes...the k...ketchup."

[/ QUOTE ]
Yusaku getting it all wrong again. It is sad that Kazuya is on his level. Well, in some things Kazuya is ahead of him. Which reminds me of Hikaru's line to Yusaku (forget which episode), "You're too simple-minded." To be told that by airhead Hikaru...

[ QUOTE ]

Laughter and wonderings:
- The first scene with the exploding shoe lockers is a great piece of animation

[/ QUOTE ]
Another instance of Madoka employing super strength. I think she also has the Power, but doesn't realize it.

[ QUOTE ]

- And just why would a bunch of girls trash Madoka's notebook, hmmmmmm...?

[/ QUOTE ]
Never thought of that. A very gutsy move on their part, unless they were very sure Kyosuke would get all the blame.

[ QUOTE ]

- That must have been some awkward standing position, for Kyosuke's foot to have been right where the see-saw came down...

[/ QUOTE ]
That Charlie Chaplain routine didn't work for me. Kyosuke isn't that stupid.

[ QUOTE ]

- Kyosuke getting jealous of himself (of Kazuya in his body) is beyond stupid

[/ QUOTE ]
The dumbest part was that it was over Hikaru. /images/graemlins/stunned1.gif

[ QUOTE ]

- Madoka stops to look at a "Greenwood" poster on the street. Sakamoto Chika, who plays Kazuya, went on to play Kisaragi Shun in the Here is Greenwood OVA, which I think first came out in 1991

[/ QUOTE ]
Cool, I hadn't realized that. I like Greenwood.

[ QUOTE ]

- That whole scene where the one punk is holding Kyo by the scruff of his neck was not drawn well enough to look believable, IMO. And these guys were picking on a 5-year-old??? Bah

[/ QUOTE ]
And they wanted his allowance! Just how much money do 5-year-olds carry around in Japan?

[ QUOTE ]

- Madoka's up-thrust with the knee seems to be a signature/favored move. I was both disappointed and relieved that she didn't try to shatter that last punk's sunglasses

[/ QUOTE ]
Kimagure Orange Road will not go down in history for the believability of its fight scenes. One of those guys had to attack Madoka with his head down at her waist level so her knee kick could make contact. It looked like he tripped and fell just as he was taking a swing at her.

[ QUOTE ]

- When Kyosuke pays Kazuya back for getting him with the see-saw, I wondered whether The former would immediately feel the pain he had inflicted on his own body, upon leaping back into it. Not to mention that he was doing that, again, to a 5-year-old!

[/ QUOTE ]
I had much the same thought.

[ QUOTE ]

- Madoka consider's Kyo's attempt to kiss her (per Kazuya), "making up"? Hmmm...she even seems to be reaching for something, when she doesn't get it

[/ QUOTE ]
Seemed like she was disappointed/annoyed when she didn't get kissed -- quite out of character for her.

KK1

08-30-2006, 01:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:

The anime does seem to have Madoka preoccupied with what Kyosuke thinks about the "stay over" comment. However, it does give them something to discuss in an intimate conversation. The contact kiss was necessary to counter Madoka's dodging Kyosuke's first attempt to kiss her (before the cliff fall). Was that attempted kiss in the manga? Did they have the sand through the fingers bit?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, and no.

KK1

08-30-2006, 01:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
Here's some manga visuals

redhat (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/4263823b5f.jpg)

[/ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that didn't get any of these to work? It seems that this isn't exactly the most friendly server.

-TC

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I never upload images so I don't know a good place to put them.

treatment

08-30-2006, 02:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
Here's some manga visuals

redhat (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/4263823b5f.jpg)

[/ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one that didn't get any of these to work? It seems that this isn't exactly the most friendly server.

-TC

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I never upload images so I don't know a good place to put them.

[/ QUOTE ]

works for me. the filesize's a bit too big at 521k, tho. I suggest re-saving it under Gimp or Paintbrush to cut down on the filesize and use imageshack or photobucket for image-hosting.

for others who can't see the particular red-dress scan, here's the imageshack-link (251k):

http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=4263823b5fvi5.jpg

KK1

08-30-2006, 02:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
[ QUOTE ]
KK1 said:
the dress (http://www.uploadfile.info/uploads/338bd1b9d7.jpg)

[/ QUOTE ]

Oooh, this is the best one. You know, I am stunned by how different Madoka looks from her anime counterpart, though everyone else in the cast (OK, maybe not Yusaku), is not that much different. And you know what, these drawings also make me think of Katsura Masakazu's work somehow (Madoka's facial expressions mostly). Did he read this series, I wonder, and was his art influenced in any way by it?

Overall, I think I prefer the look of the animated cast, but I am FASCINATED by the little details and dynamics of the manga. I know my eyes shine with a new sense of understanding, each time I read these summaries you post of events from the books. I thank you for the effort, as well as for taking the time to put up these scans.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're welcome, I like the subtle differences in the anime and manga designs. I think they both work perfect for their medium and wouldn't work in the other. Though like you said Madoka is the biggest difference, though I think Hikaru is too. Komatsu's black hair makes him look different too, he's in the balance beam pic.

Amasawa

08-30-2006, 02:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
Someone certainly proves themselves memorably in this ep, but that someone isn't Kasuga-kun.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, while Hikaru definitely shines in her substitute role at the ABCB,

[/ QUOTE ]
The more Hikaru shines, the more depressed Madoka becomes.

[ QUOTE ]

I think that Kyosuke's actions actually speak louder to Madoka, after she figures out what the deal was. I'm sure that his strangely protective attitude was appreciated after it was revealed that the goons were after Madoka. But, before they attacked Hikaru, she didn't know about the goons, and I'm sure that she wondered what he was doing.

[/ QUOTE ]
Did she figure that out? She certainly was puzzled by Kyosuke's behavior, but I don't recall anything showing Madoka that Kyosuke knew about it before the Abcb brawl. Perhaps we can just assume that she worked it out.

I see this episode being more about Hikaru/Madoka, and Kyosuke's character expose being a sub-plot.

[ QUOTE ]

I think this episode is a good amount of foreshadowing for the future of Hikaru after high school. She seems to be a natural for being in the spotlight. Unfortunately, I'm sure that Madoka isn't exactly happy that her temporary replacement seems to be favored over her. The ABCB position is one of the things that she does for enjoyment (I doubt she needs the money), and it appears that Hikaru is taking that away from her as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the movie really feeds off of this episode.

It's really tactless of Komatsu & Hatta to make a big deal about how much better Abcb is with Hikaru running it. If you think about Madoka's personality and past it would make sense that she works at Abcb because she enjoys being needed and appreciated. Her parents have abandoned her (sort of), she is an outcast at school...

Being needed at Abcb would be an important part of her life, and a major part of her self-esteem. So, it would be profoundly depressing to see that she isn't needed, and others can do it better.

Hikaru is being ultra loyal to Madoka -- taking care of her at home, taking her to school, making lunch --- then, without being aware of it, she completely undermines Madoka's self-esteem.

[ QUOTE ]

In the end, we get some new insite into the character's personalities. Kyosuke wanting to protect without worrying the protected, Hikaru being a natural actress, and Madoka's extreme selflessness and kindness, matching her tough nature.

-TC

[/ QUOTE ]
You also have to give credit to Hikaru for her courage and loyalty to Madoka. She did put herself in harm's way to protect Madoka. That is something you don't expect to find in an attention-seeking airhead. It also makes it much harder for Madoka to decide which way to go with the Kyosuke/Hikaru dilemma.

Natsume_Maya

08-30-2006, 05:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Shsway said:
- And just why would a bunch of girls trash Madoka's notebook, hmmmmmm...?

[/ QUOTE ]

What I was thinking in that scene was instead "Why's Madoka so angry about a school notebook?" She's serious enough about her studies (though she's not always in class) but on the other hand she isn't a goody-two-shoes. Kimagure behaviour. If Hikaru's obsessive-compulsive, then Madoka's bipolar /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Another instance of Madoka employing super strength. I think she also has the Power, but doesn't realize it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If she did, that may make any relationship with Kyosuke incestuous /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Njr Scrawl

08-30-2006, 11:54 AM

Matsumoto Izumi's Madoka at the bottom of this page. (http://madoka.ayukawa2.free.fr/goodies/korgnov.htm)

Interestingly, but maybe predictably, the first anime meeting has been shown/flashed back to the most.

Twice in episodes in KOR TV, used in the original OVA opening, in the Jump pilot video, and in movie 2.

To me the long pants are more in keeping with Madoka's character for walking around town. Blouse is too loud.

Here it says, 2/3 down (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmadoka.ayukawa.free.fr%2F koractu05.htm&hl=en&prev=%2Flanguage_tools&langpai r=fr%7Cen) Matsumoto has drawn a new, pre-steps 1st meeting of Kyosuke & Madoka in their school classroom. This puts an interesting angle on his sexier Madoka, as IMO it suggests she could have been interested enough in him to find a place - the steps - where she knew he would arrive at. And perhaps dressed in bright colours (&/or to match her hat) to catch his eye.

Njr Scrawl

08-30-2006, 12:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
[ QUOTE ]
Natsume Maya said:
[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Best scene is in class when Madoka walks in & the new "decisive" Kyosuke winks at her. She's startled for a second, & then says deliberately haughtily "something in your eye?" & walks on by. Nice tease!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I liked that scene too.

[/ QUOTE ]
The surprise was nice. I'm not that fond of the cold Madoka so I preferred her reaction to Kyosuke's "...it's because of you." Which caused Madoka to retreat to the restroom to sort out her emotions. I enjoyed seeing her feelings for Kyosuke come to the surface for a change.

Too bad she had to return to find Kyosuke using the same line on another girl. What could have been a big step forward became a big step backwards.

[ QUOTE ]

I didn't think the episode was too bad. There were other scenes which I liked as well, whether for the humour or otherwise, such as when he plays to the crowd of onlooking students after his double somersault fall retrieving the shuttlecock /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif I thought the scenes of Madoka a bit confused by the new Kyosuke were fun too (although perhaps taken just a bit too far).

[/ QUOTE ]
The smooth Kyosuke was only tolerable for a short period of time, but it was worth it for the confused Madoka scenes.

[ QUOTE ]

Interesting that in this episode Kyosuke being decisive means flirting with all the girls. If this is supposed to suggest what he would be like if he was more decisive, then it shows him in a poor light - it suggests that what was apparently compassion is actually just indecision.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree. That really doesn't fit his personality. I know they did it to spice up the episode with Hikaru angst, but it really isn't Kyosuke. If he was interested in any girl, but just indecisive, he would not be so preoccupied with Madoka. If this episode had been true to his personality, other girls wouldn't have been involved. He would be overtly brushing off Hikaru in favor of Madoka. The other girls were added so that Hikaru can continue to be unaware (or feign ignorance) of Kyosuke liking Madoka.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget Kyosuke was drunk. Combined with the hypbotism his inner-Ataru manifested itself /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif Madoka doesn't need electricity or a hidden hammer. She was justifiably mad, but not too vicious.

Kyosuke's easy susceptibility to hypnotism is a weakness. I wonder if Madoka will remember that later.

Njr Scrawl

08-30-2006, 12:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Lots of good lines in this one. Madoka's discussion on the roof gives us some food for thought:

"I'm the one who first discovered his charm!" and "I love him best."

To which Madoka, eyes shielded from the audience, says, "You're right."

[/ QUOTE ]

"Love him best". Hikaru means "most", but is Madoka agreeing to that, or that Hikaru gives Kyosuke unrivalled attention & doting. How does Madoka compare her affection for Kyosuke with Hikaru's?

Njr Scrawl

08-30-2006, 12:45 PM

Best of the 4 in this volume. Kyosuke's worst nightmare - Madoka getting harmed & he can't save her. Hikaru & Yuusaku's best episode - standing together against a common enemy.

Madoka is the most depressed she's been so far, feeling like a punctured tyre that's been replaced & is useless. But I think she's equally miserable for being incapacitated from her injury & seeing Hikaru attract the crowds. After this episode Abcb always has more school customers IIRC, which is good for Master's bank balance, but spoils Madoka's sanctuary for working with Kyosuke alone, & where she can be useful & happy but away from home.

Through the purest & most un-selfish of motives, Hikaru has become more involved & deeper in Madoka's new world than Madoka wanted. I think that's what is bothering Madoka most. Also she's hurting from her injury & for an active person, its more frustrating.

Most moving scene is the side-on one of Kyosuke running along the river bank, followed by Madoka hobbling fast after on her crutch with bandaged foot, to Hikaru's rescue.

The dressing down the leader gave her gang members was satisfying. Madoka has more allies of the wrong kind, & more respect now. She probably earned respect from being tough yet brave in the badass days.

Its sweet she wanted to be considered tough, & to not be thought of as soft saving a dog, says a lot about her. I guess she wants to keep her hard-girl reputation intact. The sudeban girls were frightened of her by name, a cool scene. Because Madoka was able to be her old self again, she felt useful & alive again, & so the ending was extra feelgood.

Got a Madoka cel from this episode.

Amasawa

08-30-2006, 03:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Matsumoto Izumi's Madoka at the bottom of this page. (http://madoka.ayukawa2.free.fr/goodies/korgnov.htm)

[/ QUOTE ]
You mean the white shorts version of the stairs-meeting outfit?

[ QUOTE ]

Interestingly, but maybe predictably, the first anime meeting has been shown/flashed back to the most.

[/ QUOTE ]
First meetings are important and there are some important aspects to that meeting. It takes place on the steps that seem to be a time gateway for Kyosuke. It also features the red hat that Kyosuke bought for Madoka six years earlier.

[ QUOTE ]

Twice in episodes in KOR TV, used in the original OVA opening, in the Jump pilot video, and in movie 2.

To me the long pants are more in keeping with Madoka's character for walking around town. Blouse is too loud.

[/ QUOTE ]
Before Kyosuke's influence, it seems that Madoka's style of outfit was a lot hotter. The white shorts and red Hawaiian shirt fit in with the kind of outfits Hikaru borrowed from Madoka. Remember the black miniskirt & chains?

[ QUOTE ]

Here it says, 2/3 down (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmadoka.ayukawa.free.fr%2F koractu05.htm&hl=en&prev=%2Flanguage_tools&langpai r=fr%7Cen) Matsumoto has drawn a new, pre-steps 1st meeting of Kyosuke & Madoka in their school classroom. This puts an interesting angle on his sexier Madoka, as IMO it suggests she could have been interested enough in him to find a place - the steps - where she knew he would arrive at. And perhaps dressed in bright colours (&/or to match her hat) to catch his eye.

[/ QUOTE ]
And tossed her hat in the air when she saw him coming? I prefer to think of that meeting as predestined. It is tied in with the last episodes where Kyoske travels back six years and buys the red hat for Madoka.

That page also talks of new Kimagure Orange Road work.

Babelfish translation:
"Happy Birthday, Madoka! Contrary to the year spent, I was late to celebrate the birthday of Madoka. Please excuse me. This year, it is thus 36 years old (1969-2005) according to the chronology of the manga. I benefit from it to announce that this year 2005, Izumi Matsumoto intended to resume its work on KOR. Recently, on its forum (May 2005), it lets us know via Taisuke Itono, the webmaster of its official site, which it was a question of a scenario where one evokes the child to be born from Kyosuke and Madoka. (“Important The not you noticed is very since the stud for next (and last) KOR work -- which I heard from Mr.Matsumoto -- is butt Kyosuke, Madoka and to their child to born.” - Taisuke Itono)."

I guess this is manga. Has there been a lot of manga that goes beyond the Shin KOR movie content?

Isuzu Inugami

08-30-2006, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:

I believe that it is a generation thing, somewhat equivalent to "Generation X" in the US. I don't know what the current generation is, or if it's still the "NewType" generation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured it was a Gundam reference, as others have noted. However, doesn't Gundam actually use the English word "Newtype"? In the KOR episode they say it in Japanese, which makes me wonder if this is really a Gundam reference, or if AnimEigo is translating a little, ahem, whimsically. Certainly it's believable the characters could be making a Gundam reference.

[ QUOTE ]
You would think that Madoka would probably like cloths and shopping. And with a sister that is 6-10 years older than her, she has been exposed to more mature outfits for quite a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given how she was able to outfit Hikaru in the "adult debut" Hikaru episode, Madoka seems to be a bit of a clothes horse. /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif

Njr Scrawl

08-30-2006, 04:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You mean the white shorts version of the stairs-meeting outfit?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup. More of a beach outfit than town IMO /images/graemlins/noseblee.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Before Kyosuke's influence, it seems that Madoka's style of outfit was a lot hotter. The white shorts and red Hawaiian shirt fit in with the kind of outfits Hikaru borrowed from Madoka. Remember the black miniskirt & chains?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think those are party/concert/special occasion kit rather than what she wore everyday. And the hat blowing was unplanned IMO, but by coincidence it provided Madoka with the ideal circumstances for some friendly chat /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[ QUOTE ]
I guess this is manga. Has there been a lot of manga that goes beyond the Shin KOR movie content?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are 3 novels. SKOR I is the movie story - which the movie actually improved on. SKOR II is a sort of ghost story involving Madoka's past - dark in places. SKOR III is on 2 parts, one a lighter story of the twentysomething Kyosuke & Madoka, the other a new story from KOR manga/anime high school period.

Amasawa

08-30-2006, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
Best of the 4 in this volume. Kyosuke's worst nightmare - Madoka getting harmed & he can't save her. Hikaru & Yuusaku's best episode - standing together against a common enemy.

Madoka is the most depressed she's been so far, feeling like a punctured tyre that's been replaced & is useless. But I think she's equally miserable for being incapacitated from her injury & seeing Hikaru attract the crowds. After this episode Abcb always has more school customers IIRC, which is good for Master's bank balance, but spoils Madoka's sanctuary for working with Kyosuke alone, & where she can be useful & happy but away from home.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think Madoka is a bit too stoic to be bummed by an injury. I see it as all being down to having her self-esteem undermined by Hikaru's performance at Abcb.

[ QUOTE ]

Through the purest & most un-selfish of motives, Hikaru has become more involved & deeper in Madoka's new world than Madoka wanted. I think that's what is bothering Madoka most. Also she's hurting from her injury & for an active person, its more frustrating.

[/ QUOTE ]
Madoka makes it clear when she says it would be better if she didn't recover. She is depressed that she has been shown to be inferior in something that gave her pride. Madoka is a proud person who excels at everything she does. She is a top student, excellent musician, and comes from a family of world-class violinists. To find out that she is only mediocre at Abcb is devastating -- especially when it was one place that she felt needed.

I think she is too tough to be depressed over an injury.

[ QUOTE ]

Most moving scene is the side-on one of Kyosuke running along the river bank, followed by Madoka hobbling fast after on her crutch with bandaged foot, to Hikaru's rescue.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would vote for the scene with Hikaru and Yusaku on the floor, beaten. However, the scene that touched me the most was Madoka telling Kyosuke that it would be better if she didn't recover.

[ QUOTE ]

Got a Madoka cel from this episode.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ooooh, can we see? Can we see?

Amasawa

08-30-2006, 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Shimauma said:
[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:

I believe that it is a generation thing, somewhat equivalent to "Generation X" in the US. I don't know what the current generation is, or if it's still the "NewType" generation.

[/ QUOTE ]

I figured it was a Gundam reference, as others have noted. However, doesn't Gundam actually use the English word "Newtype"? In the KOR episode they say it in Japanese, which makes me wonder if this is really a Gundam reference, or if AnimEigo is translating a little, ahem, whimsically. Certainly it's believable the characters could be making a Gundam reference.

[/ QUOTE ]
The Gundam reference to a new race of superior humans doesn't make sense to me. The way Hikaru uses it seems to indicate something more along the lines of New-Age beliefs -- the younger generation believing in things like space aliens, etc.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
You would think that Madoka would probably like cloths and shopping. And with a sister that is 6-10 years older than her, she has been exposed to more mature outfits for quite a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given how she was able to outfit Hikaru in the "adult debut" Hikaru episode, Madoka seems to be a bit of a clothes horse. /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Rich family, Japanese teenage girl, what else would you expect? /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

Amasawa

08-30-2006, 04:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wrath of the Njr said:
There are 3 novels. SKOR I is the movie story - which the movie actually improved on. SKOR II is a sort of ghost story involving Madoka's past - dark in places. SKOR III is on 2 parts, one a lighter story of the twentysomething Kyosuke & Madoka, the other a new story from KOR manga/anime high school period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man, I wish those were translated and available in the USA.

Tomcat

08-30-2006, 09:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Madoka makes it clear when she says it would be better if she didn't recover. She is depressed that she has been shown to be inferior in something that gave her pride. Madoka is a proud person who excels at everything she does. She is a top student, excellent musician, and comes from a family of world-class violinists. To find out that she is only mediocre at Abcb is devastating -- especially when it was one place that she felt needed.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think that Madoka is mediocre at working at the ABCB, but it is pretty clear that there are more people there because of Hikaru. Hikaru has a brighter personality. She probably also made a big deal of her working for Madoka, which is why Komatsu and Hatta are there. And, once they found out, I'm sure that it was all over school, and everyone is stopping by to see how she is doing.

That's not to say that Madoka cares about drawing customers into the store. That's not the case at all. I think that it is probably more that the others are making a big deal about how saintly she is standing in for the injured Madoka. This makes Madoka feel useless, which doesn't sit well for her.

Of course, the ABCB is Madoka's place. It's one of the special places for her. The only thing that would have been worse for Hikaru to spoil would be the steps or the swings.

-TC

Amasawa

08-30-2006, 11:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Tomcat said:
[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
Madoka makes it clear when she says it would be better if she didn't recover. She is depressed that she has been shown to be inferior in something that gave her pride. Madoka is a proud person who excels at everything she does. She is a top student, excellent musician, and comes from a family of world-class violinists. To find out that she is only mediocre at Abcb is devastating -- especially when it was one place that she felt needed.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think that Madoka is mediocre at working at the ABCB, but it is pretty clear that there are more people there because of Hikaru. Hikaru has a brighter personality. She probably also made a big deal of her working for Madoka, which is why Komatsu and Hatta are there. And, once they found out, I'm sure that it was all over school, and everyone is stopping by to see how she is doing.

That's not to say that Madoka cares about drawing customers into the store. That's not the case at all. I think that it is probably more that the others are making a big deal about how saintly she is standing in for the injured Madoka. This makes Madoka feel useless, which doesn't sit well for her.

Of course, the ABCB is Madoka's place. It's one of the special places for her. The only thing that would have been worse for Hikaru to spoil would be the steps or the swings.

-TC

[/ QUOTE ]
I think we are saying about the same thing. Madoka is used to being the best, and she takes pride in her job at Abcb. "Baby sister" Hikaru is now out-classing her. Not only has Hikaru attracted more people, but they are talking about how the atmosphere has improved. Hikaru is seen joking with customers and livening up the place. Madoka is too reserved to do that.

People who like to rescue others as much as Madoka does are motivated by a desire to feel useful and needed. Hikaru is inadvertently showing Madoka that not only is she is not needed, but Abcb would prosper more with someone else working there.

It has to be obvious to Madoka that drawing customers into Abcb brings in more revenue for Master. So, Master would benefit more from Hikaru working there than Madoka. Of course she takes that to heart.

I don't think Madoka is selfish enough to prefer that Abcb stay quiet so it can be her personal retreat. I think she goes there to feel useful and needed. That means being of benefit to the success of Abcb. Hikaru is showing everyone that she is more successful than Madoka.

The extent to which this upsets Madoka can be seen in her knocking over the pudding. To spit on a gift from Hikaru is not something she would do unless she had pretty much lost it.

Komatsu and Hatta are their because they have become obsessed with capturing the kind helpful Hikaru on video. They made a big deal about it in class when Hikaru brought lunch for Madoka. Komatsu and Hatta are following Hikaru around. That is why they are at Abcb. To my eyes, the other customers look older. I don't think Hikaru filled the place with schoolmates.

Tomcat

08-30-2006, 11:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Amasawa said:
It has to be obvious to Madoka that drawing customers into Abcb brings in more revenue for Master. So, Master would benefit more from Hikaru working there than Madoka. Of course she takes that to heart.

I don't think Madoka is selfish enough to prefer that Abcb stay quiet so it can be her personal retreat. I think she goes there to feel useful and needed. That means being of benefit to the success of Abcb. Hikaru is showing everyone that she is more successful than Madoka.

[/ QUOTE ]
I get the feeling that Master is running this business because this is something he likes to do, rather than trying to make a fortune. Of course, he likes to make money doing what he loves to do. But, given his nature, and actions during the series, he also cares greatly for his friends. And he certainly cares for Madoka a great deal.

I don't think Madoka really thinks that this is her retreat, or that she would prefer that it was quieter, but I think that it suddenly seems more like Hikaru's place, and the time she has spent with Kyosuke there is suddenly less important. That and all the attention Hikaru is getting is specifically because she is doing Madoka's job, and this certainly makes her feel useless. Nobody really wants to feel dependant on anyone else, and that goes especially for someone so independent as Madoka.
[ QUOTE ]
The extent to which this upsets Madoka can be seen in her knocking over the pudding. To spit on a gift from Hikaru is not something she would do unless she had pretty much lost it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Reminds me of something from that movie with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan, where she final gets a zinger in at the expense of Tom Hank's character, only to really feel crappy about it later. Madoka didn't knock the pudding over in a calculated way, but she did do it on purpose. It's not the first time she broke something on purpose, but this was a different thing. I don't think she did it to hurt Hikaru, but maybe just a little. She certainly felt REALLY bad because of it. So bad that she felt she had to leave. I don't think Hikaru understood it at all, but such things are lost on her.

-TC

Shsway

08-30-2006, 11:55 PM

I am vaguely amused by the "chan" in this title being situated right next to "Big", which was probably the point.

Anyway, this one turns out to be a very sweet story, presenting a strangely believable set of circumstances, despite the usual goofiness. More 80's fashion, girl gang members and general heroics!

Amasawa

08-31-2006, 12:25 AM

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Tomcat said:
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Amasawa said:
It has to be obvious to Madoka that drawing customers into Abcb brings in more revenue for Master. So, Master would benefit more from Hikaru working there than Madoka. Of course she takes that to heart.

I don't think Madoka is selfish enough to prefer that Abcb stay quiet so it can be her personal retreat. I think she goes there to feel useful and needed. That means being of benefit to the success of Abcb. Hikaru is showing everyone that she is more successful than Madoka.

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I get the feeling that Master is running this business because this is something he likes to do, rather than trying to make a fortune. Of course, he likes to make money doing what he loves to do. But, given his nature, and actions during the series, he also cares greatly for his friends. And he certainly cares for Madoka a great deal.

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It is true that Master is not obsessed with making money. However, I think Abcb is his living. We get a hint that he is not wealthy in Ep. 11 - Don't Ring the Wedding Bell when he tells Kyosuke that he didn't have the money to dress as sharp... Then there is the scene of him worriedly calculating the cost of Hikaru's ice cream concoction (I forget which episode). So, while he may be somewhat laid back about money, it is important for supporting his family.

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I don't think Madoka really thinks that this is her retreat, or that she would prefer that it was quieter, but I think that it suddenly seems more like Hikaru's place, and the time she has spent with Kyosuke there is suddenly less important. That and all the attention Hikaru is getting is specifically because she is doing Madoka's job, and this certainly makes her feel useless. Nobody really wants to feel dependant on anyone else, and that goes especially for someone so independent as Madoka.

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She is doing Madoka's job and doing it better than Madoka does. I think the anime went to considerable trouble to get this across.

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The extent to which this upsets Madoka can be seen in her knocking over the pudding. To spit on a gift from Hikaru is not something she would do unless she had pretty much lost it.

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Reminds me of something from that movie with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan, where she final gets a zinger in at the expense of Tom Hank's character, only to really feel crappy about it later. Madoka didn't knock the pudding over in a calculated way, but she did do it on purpose. It's not the first time she broke something on purpose, but this was a different thing. I don't think she did it to hurt Hikaru, but maybe just a little. She certainly felt REALLY bad because of it. So bad that she felt she had to leave. I don't think Hikaru understood it at all, but such things are lost on her.

-TC

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Definitely not in a calculated way -- in an emotional way. She had to leave to collect her emotions. Madoka knows that Hikaru is only trying to help her, yet it is hurting her deeply. Madoka is probably confused and upset with herself.

Previously, Madoka broke a glass on purpose to cause a distraction. That was calculated. The pudding was pure emotion.

Of course Hikaru is completely baffled by it. She is knocking herself out to help Madoka. She doesn't have a clue that she is hurting Madoka's feelings.

Tomcat

08-31-2006, 12:32 AM

My only problem with this episode is how freaking long it takes Kyosuke to recognize his little sister. No, I know she is wearing a wig, and contacts, but it seems to be the same hair color, and I'd be surprised if he never saw her without her glasses before. Given to that how quickly Madoka realizes it is "Manami-chan". And, of course Hikaru is jumping to conclusions again.

I think the thing that the story takes away isn't as much that Kyosuke is actually pretty responsible with his sisters, but that Madoka recognizes how important his family is to him. Clearly he is the type that takes care of his family (and future family). He certainly gets points in her book.

A couple other notes:

- Man, never let Kurumi cook for you. She scores right up there with Akane Tendo for having hazardous food skills.
- Kyosuke shows how he wants his sister to feel better by eating the whole pot of food himself. I wonder if he's also saving his faher from having to eat any more.
- Hikaru and Madoka follow Kyosuke and Manami around the amusement park. How creepy. Don't they trust him with his own sister?
- These sukiban girls don't seem to know Madoka. If they did, they would have turned tail and ran.

-TC

KK1

08-31-2006, 02:11 AM

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Amasawa said:
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Shimauma said:

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You would think that Madoka would probably like cloths and shopping. And with a sister that is 6-10 years older than her, she has been exposed to more mature outfits for quite a while.

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Given how she was able to outfit Hikaru in the "adult debut" Hikaru episode, Madoka seems to be a bit of a clothes horse. /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif

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Rich family, Japanese teenage girl, what else would you expect? /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

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In the manga Madoka's sister is 12 years older than her and in the story where Hikaru dresses sexy Madoka just helped Hikaru pick the clothes out at the store, that's why they fit.

Njr Scrawl

08-31-2006, 12:51 PM

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Most moving scene is the side-on one of Kyosuke running along the river bank, followed by Madoka hobbling fast after on her crutch with bandaged foot, to Hikaru's rescue.

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I would vote for the scene with Hikaru and Yusaku on the floor, beaten. However, the scene that touched me the most was Madoka telling Kyosuke that it would be better if she didn't recover.

I thought Madoka was being uncharacteristically sulky, & a bit petulant when she said it would be better. The pain & incapacity of her injury dragging her down.

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Got a Madoka cel from this episode.

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Ooooh, can we see? Can we see?

I'll see if I can get a photobucket or imageshack account set up & post my cel pic there.

Njr Scrawl

08-31-2006, 12:55 PM

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Amasawa said:
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Wrath of the Njr said:
There are 3 novels. SKOR I is the movie story - which the movie actually improved on. SKOR II is a sort of ghost story involving Madoka's past - dark in places. SKOR III is on 2 parts, one a lighter story of the twentysomething Kyosuke & Madoka, the other a new story from KOR manga/anime high school period.

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Man, I wish those were translated and available in the USA.

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Translations can be found easily online (last time I looked) until then.

Njr Scrawl

08-31-2006, 01:25 PM

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Tomcat said:
I get the feeling that Master is running this business because this is something he likes to do, rather than trying to make a fortune. Of course, he likes to make money doing what he loves to do. But, given his nature, and actions during the series, he also cares greatly for his friends. And he certainly cares for Madoka a great deal.

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Madoka is special to Master, who I think recognises & appreciates her qualities as all the intelligent adults do in KOR. I think he cares about Kyosuke too. Master wants to see the pair be happy together, & can understand what their thought processes & feelings are, but sometimes Madoka has him stumped as well. Be interesting to know how Master met Madoka & got to offer her the job as assistant manager (he would not trust Hikaru to run the place solo, clean up, cash up & lock up as he does Madoka IMO)

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I don't think Madoka really thinks that this is her retreat, or that she would prefer that it was quieter, but I think that it suddenly seems more like Hikaru's place, and the time she has spent with Kyosuke there is suddenly less important. That and all the attention Hikaru is getting is specifically because she is doing Madoka's job, and this certainly makes her feel useless. Nobody really wants to feel dependant on anyone else, and that goes especially for someone so independent as Madoka.

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These school children should not be working. I always thought that it was somewhat hush-hush. Madoka does her own thing regardless, & Kyosuke & Hikaru don't advertise the fact, as its breaking school rules. The suddenly publicity of Hikaru's employment therefore seems odd & irregular in contrast.

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The extent to which this upsets Madoka can be seen in her knocking over the pudding. To spit on a gift from Hikaru is not something she would do unless she had pretty much lost it.

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Madoka is definitely on edge. There are more things turning over in her mind than Hikaru just being there. She really needed to get away, & have Kyosuke take her somewhere private & comforting. Instead of being cared for, she is experiencing feelings of being expendable. Not nice.

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Reminds me of something from that movie with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan, where she finally gets a zinger in at the expense of Tom Hank's character, only to really feel crappy about it later.

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"When Harry Met Sally"? I love that movie (& the Ella Fitzgerald songs used)

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Madoka didn't knock the pudding over in a calculated way, but she did do it on purpose. It's not the first time she broke something on purpose, but this was a different thing. I don't think she did it to hurt Hikaru, but maybe just a little. She certainly felt REALLY bad because of it. So bad that she felt she had to leave. I don't think Hikaru understood it at all, but such things are lost on her.
-TC

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Madoka's feelings are too adult for Hikaru, & probably most of the others. Kyosuke might partly understand & Master definitely. But its Madoka's capriciousness affecting her behaviour as well. All the same, when your nerves are raw, Hikaru's genki-ness can get under the skin - which IMO is what Madoka reacted too.

Njr Scrawl

08-31-2006, 01:41 PM

Last episode of vol #7. Can I suggest a new thread for vol #8 as this one is over 200 posts(!) & so mod fodder. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

After Madoka, Manami is my favourite KOR girl. I'm glad she was given an episode of her own. (Seiyuu Michie Tomizawa before Rei Hino/Sailor Mars, Linna Yamizaki in BGC or Sumire in Sakura Wars/Taisen. Young & new to anime.)

Good episode for some Kasuga family feeling & Madoka seeing Kyosuke in a good light again.

After this volume I'm getting the feeling Madoka will make a good "big sister" addition to the Kasuga family. They will like & appreciate her, not being conventional themselves, & Madoka will feel part of a bigger community without being tied to family conventions (be good for the 2nd movie).

Madoka of course recognised Minami almost, but not quite, straight away. I liked her little irritation before the penny dropped. And she realised what was happening, & most importantly why Kyosuke was acting as a strange boy. Without Madoka there, Hikaru would have spoiled it all. Hikaru was following Kyosuke like a dog trailing a bone, & Madoka went along to let the family act play out uninterrupted, but also to see how Kyosuke would manage.

This was a welcome feelgood episode after the bitterness & misunderstandings of #27. Madoka back to full health & on top of things. Kyosuke proving himself un-selfconsciously. The way he made Minami feel special & wanted, while posing as a "boyfriend", and how he followed this up at home to surprise her when she returned, is why he's such a great guy in the story, & deserves Madoka's love. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

Natsume_Maya

08-31-2006, 07:03 PM

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Amasawa said:
The more Hikaru shines, the more depressed Madoka becomes.

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Another unintentional Hikaru pun? /images/graemlins/happy.gif

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You also have to give credit to Hikaru for her courage and loyalty to Madoka. She did put herself in harm's way to protect Madoka. That is something you don't expect to find in an attention-seeking airhead. It also makes it much harder for Madoka to decide which way to go with the Kyosuke/Hikaru dilemma.

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This was a good episode for Hikaru. I prefer her tough voice in this episode, compared to her usual high pitched voice. We also see fight against the other girls. Up to now we've only seen Madoka fight.

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Wrath of the Njr said:
The dressing down the leader gave her gang members was satisfying. Madoka has more allies of the wrong kind, & more respect now. She probably earned respect from being tough yet brave in the badass days.

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What was with Yoko (and her little brother's) hand motion/signal? /images/graemlins/happy.gif

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Tomcat said:
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The extent to which this upsets Madoka can be seen in her knocking over the pudding. To spit on a gift from Hikaru is not something she would do unless she had pretty much lost it.

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Reminds me of something from that movie with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan, where she final gets a zinger in at the expense of Tom Hank's character, only to really feel crappy about it later. Madoka didn't knock the pudding over in a calculated way, but she did do it on purpose. It's not the first time she broke something on purpose, but this was a different thing.

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I didn't think she knocked over the pudding on purpose. To me, she was certainly upset, and was pushing away the pudding, but with her arm injured and in a sling, she misjudged things and knocked the pudding over. This makes her feels worse and she leaves to spend some time by herself.

Amasawa

08-31-2006, 08:32 PM

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Tomcat said:
My only problem with this episode is how freaking long it takes Kyosuke to recognize his little sister. No, I know she is wearing a wig, and contacts, but it seems to be the same hair color, and I'd be surprised if he never saw her without her glasses before. Given to that how quickly Madoka realizes it is "Manami-chan". And, of course Hikaru is jumping to conclusions again.

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I agree, and what about her voice? They have Kyosuke consume a pot of over-spiced stew to ruin his voice, but nothing to alter Manami's voice. He should recognize her voice right away.

The episode would have worked fine with Kyosuke recognizing her when he first thinks she seems familiar. Actually, it would make more sense. If he doesn't recognize her, why does he think she ran away from home? Kyosuke freaking out in the ferris wheel could have been him realizing that Manami expected to be kissed. I wonder if AnimEigo made an error in the subtitles? Or, perhaps there was a error made when doing the original audio. The animation would work fine for an earlier realization.

There is another thing that seems problematic. Why did Kyosuke rush to rescue a strange girl and face down the sukeban? He didn't even consider rescuing Hikaru from the motorcycle gang in an early episode. Has he started emulating Madoka?

BTW, I don't think the wig color was supposed to match Manami's normal hair color. The wig was blue and Manami's hair is black.

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A couple other notes:

- Hikaru and Madoka follow Kyosuke and Manami around the amusement park. How creepy. Don't they trust him with his own sister?

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I figure they found it amusing to watch Kyosuke treat his little sister to a "date". Perhaps they wanted to see what a Kyosuke date would be like.

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- These sukiban girls don't seem to know Madoka. If they did, they would have turned tail and ran.

-TC

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They do recognize her, and say her name. The two underlings are ready to retreat, but their leader insists that the three of them can take her.

Why were the Red Scorpions annoyed with Manami to begin with? Did they think she was a hooker on their patch?

Other things:
-Manami went to a public lavi to do her transformation. I hadn't noticed that before.
-I liked her line, "Hot lovin' with cool boys..." So unlike Manami.

Amasawa

08-31-2006, 08:44 PM

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Natsume Maya said:
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Amasawa said:
The more Hikaru shines, the more depressed Madoka becomes.

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Another unintentional Hikaru pun? /images/graemlins/happy.gif

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What was with Yoko (and her little brother's) hand motion/signal? /images/graemlins/happy.gif

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Hmm, seemed somehow familiar to me. I wonder if it is a yakuza gesture, or something. My guess would be that it is a yakuza or sukeban version of a bow -- to show respect. Or so it seemed to me. (As Kyosuke might say.)

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I didn't think she knocked over the pudding on purpose. To me, she was certainly upset, and was pushing away the pudding, but with her arm injured and in a sling, she misjudged things and knocked the pudding over. This makes her feels worse and she leaves to spend some time by herself.

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Possibly, but a somewhat violent push, charged with emotion. She had to leave because she didn't know how to deal with the situation she created, nor with her current emotions.

Doyen

08-31-2006, 09:10 PM

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Wrath of the Njr said:After Madoka, Manami is my favourite KOR girl. I'm glad she was given an episode of her own. (Seiyuu Michie Tomizawa before Rei Hino/Sailor Mars, Linna Yamizaki in BGC or Sumire in Sakura Wars/Taisen. Young & new to anime.)

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You do know Michie Tomizawa voiced a recent role (and awesome character, IMHO) in Black Lagoon. She was Roberta the combat maid. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Natsume_Maya

08-31-2006, 10:08 PM

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Tomcat said:
- Man, never let Kurumi cook for you. She scores right up there with Akane Tendo for having hazardous food skills.

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Perhaps that was the real reason for Kyosuke doing all the housework for Manami when he went home - he didn't think he could survive another of Kurumi's meals /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

It was good of Kyosuke to eat all of Kurumi's cooking though.

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- Hikaru and Madoka follow Kyosuke and Manami around the amusement park. How creepy. Don't they trust him with his own sister?

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What I thought was creepier was just the Manami was kinda attracted to her brother /images/graemlins/happy.gif

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- These sukiban girls don't seem to know Madoka. If they did, they would have turned tail and ran.

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Seems to a stereotype of delinquent girls (at least in this show) that one has a long narrow face and the other is fat with a round face. It was the same in episode 27.

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Wrath of the Njr said:
The way he made Minami feel special & wanted, while posing as a "boyfriend", and how he followed this up at home to surprise her when she returned, is why he's such a great guy in the story, & deserves Madoka's love. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

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I have mixed feelings about this kind of action. I know he does what he does out of goodness, but it is deceitful in a way, and pitying. If Manami ever found out, she may feel humiliated.

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Amasawa said:
There is another thing that seems problematic. Why did Kyosuke rush to rescue a strange girl and face down the sukeban? He didn't even consider rescuing Hikaru from the motorcycle gang in an early episode. Has he started emulating Madoka?

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Perhaps I missed a scene, but why did he change his clothing and put on sunnies before confronting those girls?

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Why were the Red Scorpions annoyed with Manami to begin with? Did they think she was a hooker on their patch?

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That's how I interpreted that scene, though not that Manami was a hooker, but merely competition for boys on their turf.

One question: what do you think Kyosuke said at the end of the "date" when he was waving to Manami and the truck went past? I thought maybe "Akagi Ritsuko-kun, the truth is... I always loved you." /images/graemlins/tongue.gif