Drama and Lesbianism on Astraea Hill (Strawberry Panic thread 2) [Archive]

lilgumba

08-31-2006, 10:21 PM

Okay, I read through the other thread. For my comments on episode 21 I was one that thought Miyuki was in love with Shizuma because of her reactions about not being in love and giving Shizuma that look. I also thought that Miyuki broke down after Shizuma read that letter because she finally released. I thought I heard in the episode somewhere that she didn't really mourn Kaori dying by crying uncontrollably like she usually (used to) does (do.) Well that's what I saw.

Now, what I would like to see in these next episodes is some kind of closure between Shizuma and Nagisa. I think it will come in ep 22 but I don't think they would be getting together. You might get a kiss or something out of it but I don't expect anymore.

I also want Yaya and Hikari straightened out. The one thing that is bothering me is that Hikari said everything was okay. Yet, she leaves Yaya hanging everytime and it's obvious that she is still uncomfortable with her alone. I think it's time for Yaya or even Hikari to confront this and either end the relationship completely or fix it properly. 

And yes...I want to see more Chikaru cause she just plain rocks. Chikaru is a hottie chica! lol

musouka

09-01-2006, 11:57 PM

Hmm, no one has said anything about ep 22?

Evil seme lesbian challenges Amane to a game of tennis. It's very, very boring, but Amane looks so cute in her tennis outfit, I can't find myself minding too much. <3 While playing, seme lesbian is blabbing about how much she hates Amane and that's why she targetted Hikari. Yawn. No one cares.

Meanwhile, Yaya throws herself a huge pity party, complete with "OH NOES, I CANNOT SING ANY MORE, FOR MY HEART, SHE IS BLEEDING". Hikari is nice and blonde enough to take Yaya seriously, I probably would have shoved her melodramatic ass into the fountain at this point. Side note, I've been singing since the age of eight so I REALLY REALLY HATE subplots that involve "talented" singers getting all emo and refusing to sing. So not a drop of pity for Yaya, who brought this shit on herself anyway.

Meanwhile, back with the...yawn...princes of tennis a bunch of girls have gathered to watch the match. This is so damn cliche and it's really pissing me off, because, despite myself, I really LIKE Amane and I wish the anime would actually let her have a personality (like the manga) instead of being a bag of ancient shoujo cliches. Anyway, evil lesbian starts talking about how Amane HAS to run for the Etoile position. There is a hilarious bit of Engrish here where evil lesbian says something like "YOO ARE ZE CHOOSEN ONE".

Hikari decides that NO ONE is allowed to out guilt-trip her and starts with the waterworks. Yaya instantly bends when faced with this manipu...err, display of Hikari's feelings. Blah, blah, blah, Yaya's singing is important, blah. This is all hilariously cheesy.

Amane decides, for the sake of all the jailhouse lesbians that stalk her, that she should run for Etoile. And Yaya sings again. She's, uh, pretty bad. Not anything to get worked up about.

The end. Cue creepy ED sequence.

Fencedude

09-02-2006, 07:51 AM

*reads*

You know, I think I got more entertainment value out of that post than I will out of the episode itself.

Splitter

09-02-2006, 10:54 AM

Worst use of Engrish ever. I laughed so hard throughout this episode. By far one of the most overly melodramatic anime episodes I've ever seen. This is just so pathetic. Yes, they wrapped up Yaya/Hikari, but I never expected it to be so shallow and meaningless. Yaya loses all points she had over the other girls for going so pointlessly emo.

This show just became as god-awful as it was in the beginning. I demand more of the Henshin Club to save this travesty! Chikaru, YOU HAVE ZE POWAAA!!!

I will admit though, Momomi's slap was the highlight of this ep for me. The timing was just perfect.

Oh, and to all the girls who are Amane-philes? Please do yourselves a favor and throw yourselves off a cliff. You suck.

musouka

09-02-2006, 11:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Splitter said:
Oh, and to all the girls who are Amane-philes? Please do yourselves a favor and throw yourselves off a cliff. You suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

::goes to look for the closest cliff:: /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Teiresias

09-02-2006, 11:42 AM

I really want to argu...uh, discuss this with you, except for the fact that I agree with you. Pretty fucking bad episode!

I know, devil's advocate... /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

golthin

09-02-2006, 05:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Teiresias said:
I really want to argu...uh, discuss this with you, except for the fact that I agree with you. Pretty fucking bad episode!

I know, devil's advocate... /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Pretty much a filler episode before going with the Etoile selection arc, hey better than a Recap.

Splitter

09-02-2006, 10:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
[ QUOTE ]
Splitter said:
Oh, and to all the girls who are Amane-philes? Please do yourselves a favor and throw yourselves off a cliff. You suck.

[/ QUOTE ]

::goes to look for the closest cliff:: /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I should clarify "all girls IN THE SHOW"... Amane fans are fine. A screaming entourage of 1000 random girls that seem to have nothing better to do is not.

Fencedude

09-04-2006, 11:19 PM

God this episode was HORRIBLE!

golthin

09-05-2006, 06:34 AM

I am one of the people that want the show to end with a TamaoxNagisa ending, though I knew that for that to happen they needed to pull a Canvas2 on us. Well, it seems that they are going to, but in a reverse way and It might end eventually ShizumaxNagisa at the end.

Here is brief spoiler to one of the most dramatic moments of this episode.Miyuki comes to Nagisa's room to inform Nagisa that she nominated Tamao and her to be the Etoile candidates for their school, but Nagisa is reluctant because of her feelings for Shizuma. She runs from the room after Miyuki told her the news, she finds Shizuma in the flower house, Shizuma congratulates her and asked her to do her best, that she and Tamao will look great as Etoile. Nagisa denies that she wants to do it, because she doesn't feel that way about Tamao, before she can confess her love for Shizuma, Shizuma stops her. Shizuma asks her if she has the key and Nagisa takes it out from her pocket. Shizuma grabs Nagisa and begins pulling Nagisa closer for a kiss and Nagisa closes her eyes, at the last moment she switches to a kiss in the forehead. She then tells Nagisa to forget about her and begins to pull the key from Nagisa, Nagisa tries to hold on to the key chain, and shed some tears on the hand that hold the chain, she then lets go and runs. Shizuma utters Nagisa's name with regret and drops the key. 

I didn't like how they have turned Miyuki into a bitch in this episode. I don't like Shizuma very much, but what Miyuki did to her was too cruel. I don't blame the way that Shizuma acted at the end in her room. This episode was full of angst and the very end of the episode was very dramatic. Amane fell from her horse before she could confess that she loves Hikari.

Nork22

09-05-2006, 07:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
God this episode was HORRIBLE!

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. It was cheesy bad, and not cheesy good like it usually is.

TheGreenMan

09-05-2006, 09:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
God this episode was HORRIBLE!

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. It was cheesy bad, and not cheesy good like it usually is.

[/ QUOTE ]

The next episode (23) looks to be pretty good, going by caps I saw on 2chan--LOTS more drama, less fluff (which is good, they should move the story along). After this episode, Chikaru has affirmed her place as the best character in the whole show. My avatar right now is from that episode.

lilgumba

09-09-2006, 12:43 PM

I agree that ep 23 confirmed that Chikaru is this show's saving grace. I liked it a lot even though the ending of it was predictable.

Spirit Of The Stage

09-09-2006, 01:41 PM

Chikaru in this episode has officially become my favourite character (previously was Tamao) - with all the arguments, treachery and angst that Miatre and Spica are suffering from, it's great that Le Rim's main girl is still as cute and funny as ever, and motherly in a way to Nagisa in this episode.

I've said before, I would love Chikaru to be the next Etoile, but who would she partner with? As much as I would love it to be Hikari due to Amane's injury I believe that's impossible with other factions (unless something dramatic changes things in the next ep). Maybe Kagome...^_^

Nork22

09-09-2006, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
TheGreenMan said:
The next episode (23) looks to be pretty good, going by caps I saw on 2chan--LOTS more drama, less fluff (which is good, they should move the story along). After this episode, Chikaru has affirmed her place as the best character in the whole show. My avatar right now is from that episode.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I knew Chikaru was awesome ever since she pull out her detective hat, it's just a shame there isn't a lot more focus on the Le Rim girls at this point of the series.

And yes, she would have made a perfect Etoile, just wish she had a partner too.

Splitter

09-09-2006, 07:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:

And yes, she would have made a perfect Etoile, just wish she had a partner too.

[/ QUOTE ]

*cough*KAGOME!!!*cough*

I still think the reason Le Rim backed out of the Etoile election is because Chikaru knew she'd pwn everyone and didn't want to humiliate them like that.

More on Ep. 23, I don't know about the rest of you, but I like bitchy Miyuki. It's about time she start taking some responsibility for her long-time crush... and she wants to make Nagisa/Tamao a reality! GO MIYUKI!!!

And yes, I laughed when Amane fell of the horse (literally). Maybe if she had a personality, and maybe if I didn't want to throw the twit Hikari off a cliff...

Nork22

09-09-2006, 08:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Splitter said:
*cough*KAGOME!!!*cough*

[/ QUOTE ]
**thinks about it... NO! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[ QUOTE ]
I still think the reason Le Rim backed out of the Etoile election is because Chikaru knew she'd pwn everyone and didn't want to humiliate them like that.

[/ QUOTE ]
Dunno why it's a spoiler, but yes, Chikaru owns all!

[ QUOTE ]
And yes, I laughed when Amane fell of the horse (literally). Maybe if she had a personality, and maybe if I didn't want to throw the twit Hikari off a cliff...

[/ QUOTE ]
I laughed too. And yes, Hikari's eVil.

Splitter

09-09-2006, 08:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
**thinks about it... NO! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ep. 24's preview begs to differ... at least, I hope that's Kagome in Chikaru's arms ^^

[ QUOTE ]
Dunno why it's a spoiler, but yes, Chikaru owns all!

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a spoiler because Le Rim backed out of the Etoile election

Nork22

09-09-2006, 08:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Splitter said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
**thinks about it... NO! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ep. 24's preview begs to differ... at least, I hope that's Kagome in Chikaru's arms ^^

[/ QUOTE ]
Looks like Hikari to me. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[ QUOTE ]
It's a spoiler because Le Rim backed out of the Etoile election

[/ QUOTE ]
But wasn't it a given? Considering there's very little focus on the Le Rim girls after the Nagisa x Shizuma and Hikari x Yaya incidents. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

lilgumba

09-10-2006, 11:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Splitter said:

More on Ep. 23, I don't know about the rest of you, but I like bitchy Miyuki. It's about time she start taking some responsibility for her long-time crush... and she wants to make Nagisa/Tamao a reality! GO MIYUKI!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that Miyuki's attitude was needed despite how evil she was being. Nagisa and Shizuma was not going to make any moves and things would have been stuck in limbo. So Miyuki's actions are justified. And yes it did end up making Nagisa/Tamao closer. That is going to help Nagisa get over Shizuma because she now has that unconditional support that she may not have noticed before. Unfortunately, this has pissed of Shizuma and I fear she will do something irrational in the episodes to come. We shall see.

Fencedude

09-10-2006, 05:52 PM

Is it bad that I laughed during hte final scene?

Splitter

09-10-2006, 05:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
Is it bad that I laughed during hte final scene?

[/ QUOTE ]

If she had had a personality, then yes, but she didn't.

Don't worry. I laughed too.

TheGreenMan

09-10-2006, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Splitter said:
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
Is it bad that I laughed during hte final scene?

[/ QUOTE ]

If she had had a personality, then yes, but she didn't.

Don't worry. I laughed too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunely, that's the major problem with this show. Too many characters and not enough time to flesh them out. Not a lot of Le Lim and Amane has the personality of wood. What ever happened to the married couple of St. Maitre (the ones that were chucking things at each other). They had more dimensionality than Amane and really had only one in depth scene.

musouka

09-10-2006, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
Is it bad that I laughed during hte final scene?

[/ QUOTE ]

YES. No. I did too.

Ahh, my poor, poor Amane...the anime has treated you so badly. Neglecting to give you your awesome personality, then using you as a plot device in one of the worst, cheesiest scenes in this whole stupid series...

Nork22

09-11-2006, 04:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
Is it bad that I laughed during hte final scene?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. I laughed too.

The whole Etoile election is one big joke now. What happen to the lesbian angst?

Splitter

09-11-2006, 08:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Fencedude said:
Is it bad that I laughed during hte final scene?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. I laughed too.

The whole Etoile election is one big joke now. What happen to the lesbian angst?

[/ QUOTE ]

That entire episode was chockful of bad lesbian angst, and with what happened to Amane, now we get to see more in Ep. 24! And more of Chikaru fulfilling her duty of being the shoulder to cry on, I'm sure.

Nork22

09-11-2006, 08:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Splitter said:
And more of Chikaru fulfilling her duty of being the shoulder to cry on, I'm sure.

[/ QUOTE ]
Chikaru should just be crown the next Etoile even if she doesn't have a partner (heck after the play, she proved she can do anything!). That way, everyone will go back to their usual self and we won't have to suffer very bad lesbian angst!

golthin

09-12-2006, 01:18 AM

Well, they surprised me because I was not expecting for them to use that plot .After Amane woke up,she doesn't remember about being nominated for Etoile or about Hikari. At least they spared us the "Kimi dare" or "Anata Dare" line right after she woke up. I was expecting an arm or leg injury or something else. I guess they need to put poor Hikari in angst mode.
 /images/graemlins/icon_rolleyes.gif /images/graemlins/icon_rolleyes.gif

Nork22

09-12-2006, 05:25 AM

Go Yaya! This is your chance!!!! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Fencedude

09-12-2006, 10:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
Go Yaya! This is your chance!!!! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, if it had happened to Hikari then maybe she'd have a chance, but Yaya's already totally crashed and burned, and is lucky Hikari didn't kick her out of the room for being a creepy rapist.

Not that I don't WANT Hikari/Yaya, mind you.

golthin

09-25-2006, 08:37 PM

Oh my gosh, how uncreative! they stole that from Mai otome.
/images/graemlins/relief.gif /images/graemlins/icon_rolleyes.gif

Before the etoile is decided we are treated to a lot of flash backs of Nigasa and Shizuma happy days together. Eventually Shizuma can't stand the angst and runs back to the chapel and before they can choose the etoile she declares her love for Nagisa and extend her hand to her. Nigasa doesn't know what to do because she doesn't want to betray Tamao, but it is Tamao who unties Nagisa's ribbon and push her toward Shisuma. After a little hasitation, Nagisa jumps on shizuma open hands and they run out of the chaple together. Hikari and Amane became Etoile by default and Shizuma and Nagisa end together and share a passionate kiss. That night, Nagisa on the outside of her room, leans at her room door and Tamao does the same on the other side, Tamao whispers a "welcome home, Nagisa"
The end.

TheGreenMan

09-26-2006, 06:27 AM

So simple, yet so effective. That was one hot kiss between Nagisa and Shizuma. At least it has a happy ending for everyone except Tamao--poor girl. /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

golthin

09-26-2006, 07:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
TheGreenMan said:
So simple, yet so effective. That was one hot kiss between Nagisa and Shizuma. At least it has a happy ending for everyone except Tamao--poor girl. /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I really dislike love triangles where both opponents and the one that is being fought over are likeable characters. I was not that fond of Shizuma, but I can understand why she hasitated so much. That said, I still like to watch this type of shows. /images/graemlins/stunned0.gif
As far as I have seen this new season there are not more Shoujo-ai shows or Shonen-ai shows this season, I wonder how well Strawberry panic did in Japan. I have read some comments from people about how the ending left some things open for a second season.

Nork22

09-26-2006, 09:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
TheGreenMan said:
So simple, yet so effective. That was one hot kiss between Nagisa and Shizuma. At least it has a happy ending for everyone except Tamao--poor girl. /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
There's 2 things I hate about the ending for this series.
1) Amane and Hikari becoming Etoile. 2 of the most brain dead and most boring of couples taking the throne? Gah give me a break. They weren't worthy. Chikaru is the one true Etoile that should have won it all. Plus I never like the Amane x Hikari pairing. Should have been Yaya x Hikari from the start.... /images/graemlins/relief1.gif

2) Did I mention Chikaru? Not enough screen time for her. Out of all the characters, she's the most fun to watch.

Overall, this is what I expected of cheese gone bad. I'll eat it, but won't enjoy the very last bite.

musouka

09-26-2006, 02:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:

1) Amane and Hikari becoming Etoile. 2 of the most brain dead and most boring of couples taking the throne? Gah give me a break. They weren't worthy. Chikaru is the one true Etoile that should have won it all. Plus I never like the Amane x Hikari pairing. Should have been Yaya x Hikari from the start.... /images/graemlins/relief1.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe more people didn't see this coming, and are even upset about it. Chikaru wasn't in the running because she believes in free love. And did anyone really think Nagisa and Tamao were going to end up Etoile--a position with obviously romantic connotations--when all the love in their relationship was one sided?

I really can't believe you're making me defend SP, but it's one thing to prefer a couple, but it's another to actually think the series would have been somehow improved by jettisoning all that it had built up over the span of twenty or so episodes, just so it would appeal to your personal taste. SP wa a crappy series, but at least illogical progression isn't added to its myriad of failures.

Nork22

09-26-2006, 06:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
musouka said:
I can't believe more people didn't see this coming, and are even upset about it. Chikaru wasn't in the running because she believes in free love. And did anyone really think Nagisa and Tamao were going to end up Etoile--a position with obviously romantic connotations--when all the love in their relationship was one sided?

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I saw it coming, but still never did like those 2 as a couple. And yes, I know that Chikaru wasn't in the running because she doesn't even have a partner and she doesn't want to be an Etoile in the first place. /images/graemlins/icon_rolleyes.gif

[ QUOTE ]
I really can't believe you're making me defend SP, but it's one thing to prefer a couple, but it's another to actually think the series would have been somehow improved by jettisoning all that it had built up over the span of twenty or so episodes, just so it would appeal to your personal taste. SP wa a crappy series, but at least illogical progression isn't added to its myriad of failures.

[/ QUOTE ]
Defend it from what exactly? The build up was pretty weak, and often times I don't know who to focus on and who to support in the Etoile elections. I didn't exactly favoured the TamaoxNagisa pairing because you know Nagisa will end up with Shizuma in the end, who didn't see this coming? nor did I like the wishy washy AmanexHikari pairing and the story that went into it amnesia the day before the announcement, then miraculously, thru the power of love™, everything went back to normal. Puh-lease. I would have been content if they never went into the whole Etoile elections story arc, but that's how things work. Cheese is cheese like I said, and this one just went bad at the end.

evilarrex

09-26-2006, 06:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
Cheese is cheese like I said, and this one just went bad at the end.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/relief1.gif tis true. Bad Pie... /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

golthin

09-26-2006, 06:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
Defend it from what exactly? The build up was pretty weak, and often times I don't know who to focus on and who to support in the Etoile elections. I didn't exactly favoured the TamaoxNagisa pairing because you know Nagisa will end up with Shizuma in the end, who didn't see this coming? nor did I like the wishy washy AmanexHikari pairing and the story that went into it amnesia the day before the announcement, then miraculously, thru the power of love™, everything went back to normal. Puh-lease. I would have been content if they never went into the whole Etoile elections story arc, but that's how things work. Cheese is cheese like I said, and this one just went bad at the end.

[/ QUOTE ]
I saw it comming too, I think that whoever didn't see it coming was blind. This shows was so full of Cliche that predicting the end was not hard.That is why you don't see me feeling sorry for Tamao because I knew what was going to happen. The only thing I was surprised was how close they were to the scene from Mai Otome. Like you said, Cheese is cheese and if you eat it you can't complain.

Nork22

09-26-2006, 06:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Arrex said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
Cheese is cheese like I said, and this one just went bad at the end.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/relief1.gif tis true. Bad Pie... /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
What's sad about this, is that I have my Strawberry Panic R2 DVDs all preordered. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

evilarrex

09-26-2006, 07:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:

/images/graemlins/relief1.gif tis true. Bad Pie... /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
What's sad about this, is that I have my Strawberry Panic R2 DVDs all preordered. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Errr same.... /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

golthin

09-26-2006, 07:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Arrex said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:

/images/graemlins/relief1.gif tis true. Bad Pie... /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
What's sad about this, is that I have my Strawberry Panic R2 DVDs all preordered. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Errr same.... /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Can't cancel? though, a show like Strawberry panic has a small chance of being licensed. If it were BL, like Gakuen Heaven heaven, then MB might be all over. How many Shoujo Ai shows have been licensed, not counting Utena.

angelx03

09-26-2006, 07:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
[ QUOTE ]
Arrex said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:

/images/graemlins/relief1.gif tis true. Bad Pie... /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
What's sad about this, is that I have my Strawberry Panic R2 DVDs all preordered. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Errr same.... /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Can't cancel? though, a show like Strawberry panic has a small chance of being licensed. If it were BL, like Gakuen Heaven heaven, then MB might be all over. How many Shoujo Ai shows have been licensed, not counting Utena.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, Geneon did release all of Kannazuki no Miko. So I'm basically placing my faith on them. /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

golthin

09-26-2006, 07:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
angelx03 said:
[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
[ QUOTE ]
Arrex said:
[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:

/images/graemlins/relief1.gif tis true. Bad Pie... /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
What's sad about this, is that I have my Strawberry Panic R2 DVDs all preordered. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Errr same.... /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Can't cancel? though, a show like Strawberry panic has a small chance of being licensed. If it were BL, like Gakuen Heaven heaven, then MB might be all over. How many Shoujo Ai shows have been licensed, not counting Utena.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, Geneon did release all of Kannazuki no Miko. So I'm basically placing my faith on them. /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
well, I wouldn't call that show shoujo, it had mechs and a lot of fighting, so even with the Shoujo-ai, it can appeal to other demographics. I was talking basically about a shoujo anime with GL like Mari-miteru or SP.

evilarrex

09-26-2006, 10:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
angelx03 said:

Well, Geneon did release all of Kannazuki no Miko. So I'm basically placing my faith on them. /images/graemlins/depresse.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

KnM had Mecha. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Geneon were principals behind Maria Mite and STILL no sign of this. /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif I would not hold my breadth for SP.

Nork22

09-27-2006, 02:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
Can't cancel? though, a show like Strawberry panic has a small chance of being licensed. If it were BL, like Gakuen Heaven heaven, then MB might be all over. How many Shoujo Ai shows have been licensed, not counting Utena.

[/ QUOTE ]
We can... but then, yeah chances of seeing this in R1 land is slim. Where's Yami to Boushi?!

Nork22

09-27-2006, 06:47 AM

Now for the good thing:
Chikaru in a Santa suit = teh win!!! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Mitsuki

09-27-2006, 07:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
[ QUOTE ]
golthin said:
Can't cancel? though, a show like Strawberry panic has a small chance of being licensed. If it were BL, like Gakuen Heaven heaven, then MB might be all over. How many Shoujo Ai shows have been licensed, not counting Utena.

[/ QUOTE ]
We can... but then, yeah chances of seeing this in R1 land is slim. Where's Yami to Boushi?!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, IMO, a newer show always has a bigger chance... Marimite and Yamibou are both "old" now by today's standards. If Geneon was successful with KnM and want to try another shoujo-ai show, StraPani is probably the one they would be most likely to license. Also, StraPani now has/will soon have the exposure of the novels being licensed, whatever good that will do. Actually, for a point in YamiBou's favor that StraPani and MariMite don't have is a sci-fi element of sorts which KnM had.

(I'm just playing devil's advocate here; if I were to put these shows in the order I most want them licensed, StraPani is third for me. I'd rather have the other two, it's just that StraPani is probably more likely at this point. The actual truth is I think the most likely unlicensed shoujo-ai show to get picked up will be Kashimashi because the gender switch element is always popular.)

Splitter

09-29-2006, 08:06 AM

Good point, Mitsuki. With the StoPani novels being released by Seven Seas, it will have better exposure and a chance for being licensed like Kannazuki no Miko... I'd still prefer YamiBou, but it's a plain and simple fact that we need more R1 yuri. It's not fair that all the yaoi gets licensed and we yuri fans get left dangling, waiting for just ONE title to get picked up every few years!

And for those wondering about the popularity of the great Chikaru-oneesama, check out the Saimoe tourney. She made the top 32 and is still going as the only representative of Strawberry Panic... so yeah, she's popular too. How can you not be when you can get both the Spica uke and the Miatre uke to come running into your arms crying and still keep your loli harem all over the course of 3 episodes?!?!?

We need a Henshin Club OVA now. We need one BAD.

And as for what I thought of the ending... meh. No real suprises... well, except the one Tsubomi got in the credits ^^

lilgumba

09-29-2006, 09:02 AM

Predictable yes but I still feel sorry for Tamao. It's like she was played at the start but still was willing to get hurt. Maybe she is masochistic. I still give her props for welcoming back Nagisa so quickly. If that was me it would take a few weeks. What's done is done. Shizuma is leaving soon so it doesn't really matter. They can get some friend time after that when Nagisa is depressed then. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif 

I agree that there needs to be more Chikaru. While I liked little Tamao, Chikaru stole the show. She was the saving grace from all this chaos.

TheGreenMan

09-29-2006, 09:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
lilgumba said:
Predictable yes but I still feel sorry for Tamao. It's like she was played at the start but still was willing to get hurt. Maybe she is masochistic. I still give her props for welcoming back Nagisa so quickly. If that was me it would take a few weeks. What's done is done. Shizuma is leaving soon so it doesn't really matter. They can get some friend time after that when Nagisa is depressed then. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Whose to say that Shizuma and Nagisa don't carry their relationship outside of school? Shizuma has her summer house...

Splitter

09-29-2006, 09:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
TheGreenMan said:
[ QUOTE ]
lilgumba said:
Predictable yes but I still feel sorry for Tamao. It's like she was played at the start but still was willing to get hurt. Maybe she is masochistic. I still give her props for welcoming back Nagisa so quickly. If that was me it would take a few weeks. What's done is done. Shizuma is leaving soon so it doesn't really matter. They can get some friend time after that when Nagisa is depressed then. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif 

[/ QUOTE ]

Whose to say that Shizuma and Nagisa don't carry their relationship outside of school? Shizuma has her summer house...

[/ QUOTE ]

I find it more satisfying to believe that Tamao pulled a Chikane on Nagisa the moment she opened the door.

Nork22

09-29-2006, 10:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Splitter said:
And for those wondering about the popularity of the great Chikaru-oneesama, check out the Saimoe tourney. She made the top 32 and is still going as the only representative of Strawberry Panic... so yeah, she's popular too.

[/ QUOTE ]
She barely beat Rika-chan (Higurashi) too.
But being the only representive? I see that Tamao is also part of the 32.

Splitter

09-29-2006, 10:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Splitter said:
And for those wondering about the popularity of the great Chikaru-oneesama, check out the Saimoe tourney. She made the top 32 and is still going as the only representative of Strawberry Panic... so yeah, she's popular too.

[/ QUOTE ]
She barely beat Rika-chan (Higurashi) too.
But being the only representive? I see that Tamao is also part of the 32.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gah, you're right... forgot about her.

Nork22

09-29-2006, 10:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Splitter said:
Gah, you're right... forgot about her.

[/ QUOTE ]
And she's up against Satoko. This will be interesting. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

Splitter

09-29-2006, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Nork22 said:
[ QUOTE ]
Splitter said:
Gah, you're right... forgot about her.

[/ QUOTE ]
And she's up against Satoko. This will be interesting. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

How Satoko stays in when Ni Pah is out is beyond my comprehension.... and I'm expecting Mikuru to win it all.

something

12-16-2006, 02:03 AM

Finally I get around to finishing this!

Chikaru: the ultimate fixer-upper. They'd all be screwed without her. And in exchange she gets cute crying girls to throw themselves into her bosom =D She and Tamao were my favorites from the start, and that never changed.

Best scene: Hikari is buried in Chikaru's boobs, Chikaru is petting her, and then dumb amnesiac Amane comes up, sees it, and goes "Ah, I'm sorry" in her down syndrome voice and then walks away XD Wahahaha.

Shizuma: Sigh. For the whole latter part of the run she just annoyed me. When she started to pull herself together (when coaching Tamao and Nagisa in dancing) I wanted to think she was back to being the character I enjoyed earlier, but knew it was nonsense. I was just bored every time she came on screen. She gets in the way of Nagisa-Tamao fun. More on her once I finish watching completely...

The Crazy Rape Twins (Kaname and Momomi): Kaname impressed me later on when she became a bit more... humane :sd: I was totally expecting Momomi to snap and shove a knife into Kaname's spine, when they show her on the stairs in the dark looking all menacing in ep 25 :sd: But she didn't snap after all.

Hikari and Amane: Stupid amnesia, usually an annoying plot device. It was ok here though, by the end. Relatively nice scene with Hikari and Amane alone, and Hikari starts singing, Amane remembers, a sweet kiss... ... ...AND SUDDENLY, NAKED! Wahahaha. Awesome. Their relationship overall is kinda dumb, but that still amused me.

Ep 26 has some great Tsubomi moments XD And I enjoyed that subtle little exchange between Shizuma and Tamao during the presentation of the bouquet: Shizuma gets caught up in staring at Nagisa, Tamao quietly but strongly snaps Shizuma back into reality, squeezes Nagisa's hand, and accepts the bouquet. Nicely done there.

[stops typing to finish ep 26]

...The ending... sigh. Talk about being torn. In terms of pacing, music, animation, writing, the whole Etoile election bit in 26 was actually handled very well. I can't find much to complain about there, even when the whole latter part of the show otherwise suffered a bit from some overdone writing. And part of me is happy that Shizuma became her old self again, storming into the church and declaring her love for Nagisa, and then whisking her away without a plan or a care in the world. On some level I appreciate their bond.

But fuck, what about Tamao? I knew from the start that she had no "chance", the OP and everything else made it damn clear who Nagisa would end up with. But that didn't necessarily make it easier to watch.

Know how some Da Capo fans talk about a certain character's fate in the second season of that show? Well, that's how this is for me. Moreso here than with DC for me, because I was much more positive about the outcome of Da Capo than most people.

What a stab to the heart the very ending was too -- Tamao on one side of the door, Nagisa on the other, silence, darkness, and "Welcome back, Nagisa-chan". Yeah, in a way, it sort of hurts. I like Tamao. A lot. Always did. So, before anyone gets all judgmental and lectures me on how the show is just pandering fanboy crap, I preemptively say: I don't care. Fuck you. Eat shit. Die. >_< Blah, so torn, so torn. BUT... glad I finally went back and finished it.

((And now, the most important question remaining: When does Chikaru's own show come out? Because she deserves one!))

TheGreenMan

12-16-2006, 06:20 PM

Speaking of Strapani, I had two girls try to make out in the stacks at my library today. I chucked them out (one of the girls is a frequent troublemaker-she's threatened a cop a little while ago).

musouka

12-16-2006, 06:23 PM

one of the girls is a frequent troublemaker-she's threatened a cop a little while ago

If only the SP girls had been that interesting! :P

something

12-16-2006, 07:20 PM

Speaking of Strapani, I had two girls try to make out in the stacks at my library today. I chucked them out (one of the girls is a frequent troublemaker-she's threatened a cop a little while ago).
Haha, that brings up another point -- I love this anime shoujo-ai stuff, but it's the product of a certain kind of environment... a fictional one.

Not only a fictional one, but one that thrives on youth, and (perceived or real) innocence. Shoujo-ai, yuri, intense girl-girl emotional intimacy, etc... when depicted, they tend to be in a school setting many times, probably because there's this sense of frozen time, of a place where these emotions can stew, spill over, and run wild -- within limits. The enclosed rose garden at school where Himeko and Chikane meet in Kannazuki no Miko, the campus of St. Lillian and especially the Rose Mansion in MariMite, the Strawberry Dorms of Strawberry Panic... all give some sense of a special refuge from the world.

I think that's what I like about these kinds of relationships. Even when the setting is something more fantasy based, and there's chaos everywhere, the couples (declared or closeted) seem to be in their own world when they're together, always thinking about each other, fighting against those who would keep them apart, and so intensely emotional... well, I guess that's what love is about (whether sexual or otherwise).

But it's also why you don't see many (any?) shows that take the relationship back into cold, hard, daily reality. What *really* would happen to Shizuma and Nagisa once they graduate and go out into the world and get jobs and pay taxes... Man, who wants to think about that? (Although... a show or two that seriously addresses that could be somewhere between hilarious and fascinating XD)

A big part of what makes anime what it is to me is being dropped into characters' chaotic lives, experiencing their struggles, angst, triumphs, seeing them overcome obstacles, and then quietly slipping away while the credits roll. I realize this is a fundamental mode of storytelling and has nothing to do with anime uniquely, but anime does it in ways that captivate me most. If I were a Shizuma fan, I'd say "Awesome, go out on a high note, leave the viewer with that impression of how things are, and then fade away into the night." That's all I want from a show, girl-girl oriented plotlines in particular.

I wrote a similar post in an Asatte no Houkou thread a little while ago with how the concept of amazing events contained to "seasons" really does it for me as well, particularly summers -- see Air in particular, but also Asatte and most other school-age based romance/dramas, where summer plays a huge part with the emphasis on making memories to carry them all through the disillusioning world of reality awaiting beyond graduation. I also love the traditional depiction of a summer landscape in Japan - waking along a raised dirt road with rice paddies on either side, the sun setting and turning the sky orange, the cicadas screeching away, the sound of festivals carrying over the cool breeze from a shrine in the distance... I know it's a "romantic" sort of view, but that doesn't mean I can't like it. Winter is no slouch either -- the snow covered landscape of Kanon blows me away.

Yes, I'm speaking generally, and Strawberry Panic is hardly the epitome of this. I've mentioned numerous points where the show just tries far too hard, and falls flat on its face. Hikari and Amane were, to me, never something I took completely seriously. The writing was downright silly in some places, including emotional scenes where it really needed to be stellar. Nonetheless, Strawberry Panic does represent a certain kind of world I enjoy, and that's where I'm coming from here. I'm all for anime with gritty, violent realism at times, but where things truly shine is in a setting where we can forget all that for awhile, and focus on the intense relationships between characters.

musouka

12-16-2006, 08:16 PM

It's interesting you would say that. To me, I think that outlook is a bit old fashioned, but the "greenhouse" can definitely have its charms.

My problem with SP and others of its ilk is that it seems to be too stuck in the greenhouse. It's nice every once in a while, but eventually it becomes about telling the same sort of story, with the same sort of characters, over and over and over again.

It's as though yuri (and I'm talking about the commercialized stuff--there's some really great stuff aimed at lesbians out there) is not describing a relationship it is describing a highly specialized genre that has to involve girls of a certain age, personality, and type. I find that stifling after a while.

It would be like if BL was only about relationships in an all boy's school setting. I love that boarding school setting--in both BL and yuri--but sometimes I want to read about businessmen, or actors, or princes, or samurai, ect, ect, ect. And for the most part, BL delivers.

So I can understand why you might enjoy the type of setting SP has, but I think I would prefer to see yuri branch out to beyond high school, like BL has. It doesn't mean there can never ever be another "Catholic schoolgirl jailhouse lesbian" anime ever made, it just means there would be more variety.

(As an interesting aside, as long as we're talking about "after highschool", I recently picked up a work of Kihara Toshie's entitled "Diamond Godzillian". Humorous title aside, there's a very bittersweet little chapter that involves two girls that were very much in love in high school, and what happens when "forever" doesn't really mean forever to one of them...)

something

12-16-2006, 08:43 PM

It's interesting you would say that. To me, I think that outlook is a bit old fashioned, but the "greenhouse" can definitely have its charms.
My problem with SP and others of its ilk is that it seems to be too stuck in the greenhouse. It's nice every once in a while, but eventually it becomes about telling the same sort of story, with the same sort of characters, over and over and over again.
Part of it might be that I read little to no manga anymore, where this setting is, I assume, considerably more prevalent. When it comes to anime, I don't feel like I've personally gotten my hands on all that much of it. In fact, I yearn desperately for more. In addition to MariMite, Strawberry Panic and some elements of Kannazuki, we can perhaps add the more dramatic elements of Kashimashi (with caveats :sd: ), but I've been hard pressed to think up other canon examples of the "greenhouse" (an analogy that works very well, btw) that I've watched myself. And note that they're all pretty recent shows.

Now, there's not necessarily a shortage of girl-girl subtext in shows nowadays, but when it's something like Anna's obsession with Izumi in He Is My Master, that's... well, not nearly the same feeling. That just comes off as pure titillating, comedic fanservice -- which, don't get me wrong, is perfectly cool by me, but it satisfies an entirely different part of my brain (or is it another organ >_>). Ditto Kaorin in Azumanga, though I guess that's somewhere in the middle :sd:

Conversely, I must add, there are shows not set in a canon greenhouse that still satisfy me in similar ways. Some are slightly twisted variations of it (HiME :sd: , and later developments in Kannazuki), others seem to have nothing in common on the surface (Nanoha, where the greenhouse has nothing do do with physical or geographic location) or take place in seemingly unrelated settings (small parts of Stellvia).

Thinking up even the few examples in this thread was difficult, so I'm still far from the saturation point. I doubt it will forever remain my favorite concept in anime, but it only even became that in the past few years to begin with. Before that it was hardcore sci/fi quasi-philosophical technobabble (Lain, Eva, GitS). I still like that stuff but it doesn't mean quite as much to me as it used to.

musouka

12-16-2006, 09:04 PM

What about Oniisama e? All three of the shows you mentioned are cribbing from it in different respects and degrees. Maybe it's because I've seen and read Oniisama e, but all the stuff in this genre really begins to see like a pale immitation once you realize it's streaming from one source. (And it hasn't really matched that source either)

It'd be like if the only inspiration robot shows had was Evangelion, and the creators only seemed interested in retelling it over and over with minor cosmetic changes. A handful of shows in that situation might not seem like much, but when it's the major representation of that genre...

(For the record I was mainly refering to yuri anime; yuri manga is has a bit more variety. I'm not sure I agree that every manga that has been labeled as yuri is actually yuri, but you have stuff like Applause and Paros no Ken which I think fits the bill and is more than "schoolgirls? AGAIN?")

something

12-16-2006, 09:43 PM

What about Oniisama e? All three of the shows you mentioned are cribbing from it in different respects and degrees.
Heard of it, but haven't seen it. And a quick look around el internet indicates the chances of getting my hands on it are slim to none. Obviously we can't discuss the details, but I've only noticed one avenue and it's one that's been closed to be for awhile, unfortunately. So while I'd like to see it so I can discuss that angle, I don't think there's much chance of that happening. I can only take your word for it.

It'd be like if the only inspiration robot shows had was Evangelion, and the creators only seemed interested in retelling it over and over with minor cosmetic changes. A handful of shows in that situation might not seem like much, but when it's the major representation of that genre...
I've addressed this before in other contexts, but what most consider "cosmetic changes" are, for me, more significant than that. Are there 500 harem anime? Sure, but that doesn't mean there aren't at least 495 different experiences between them. Whether or not KnM, Kashimashi, Marimite and SP rip off Oniisama-e, I found each to be a significantly different experience in their own rights. In fact, very different, at the level of detail that I actually care about. And I'm sure I'd find Oniisama e very different as well. For me, a setting, a group of character types, or even a plot (or all of the above) doesn't have to result in a clone.

In fact, most of the time I hear someone say "x" is a clone of "y", I find that I liked both "x" and "y" for different reasons. Or maybe I like them for similar reasons, but it was executed differently in each case. Unless a show is a flat out intentional remake, with the same characters, dialog, animation style, music, and plot, (and director and writers and...) I'm almost certainly going to get a unique experience from it. It's not that I'm incapable of seeing a homage (or rip) for what it is, but rather that my enjoyment of anime comes less from the "big picture" than from the images that flit across the screen, moment-by-moment, which are almost always, even in the most cliche of shows, unique.

So, maybe I'm just easy to please, but I've never felt that was a bad thing. The only downside of it is that I want to buy so many damn shows -- though there are still so many unlicensed, which is all that keeps me from being broke =P