Texhnolyze for the First Time (*NO spoilers, please!*)

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

I decided to start up this thread inspired by two things. First, oddly enough, was my recent avatar change, which by way of a comment in the Avatars thread in Off-topic, prompted a near miss on being spoiled for later in the series. That got me thinking to doing another first timer's thread, with most of the credit for that idea going to disarm for his CCS thread. So, Randall Flagg and the unknowing disarm, thanks for inspiring this thread! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

So here's the basic idea... I am now watching Texhnolyze for the first time. I have just completed episode 5, and here I'll post after every episode or two my thoughts on it so far. My viewing schedule averages about 5 episodes a week, since I watch an episode almost daily.

My impressions so far:

As I should expect with an Ueda/ABe project, things got started right away and with little explanation. It's taken me until about the 4th episode to get a grasp on what's going on. Ichise is an outcast of some kind, Ran is still very mysterious (I like that in a character) and I don't know yet where her future-telling ability will come into play. "I've seen it" (regarding Ichise) is all I have to go on. She's also just led Ichise out of the sewer by dropping those flowers. I still don't know who Yoshii really is, other than he's obviously not from Lukuss, and he seems to want to set the people free from their seemingly self imposed oppression. So far, it's got sort of a Lain meets Haibane Renmei environment going on, what with people trying to get to the unknown outside world, but not being able to for whatever reason. This is in contrast to Haibane Renmei where people didn't know what was 'out there', but for the most part had no desire to leave.

I am enjoying the show a lot so far, it's very very dark and moody, and there are tons of questions not yet answered, and I'm looking forward to finding out more.

So, feel free respond however you like to this blog-like thread, just remember... no spoilers please! There's nothing that I dislike more than knowing what's going to happen ahead of time. /images/graemlins/wink.gif If you think it's even remotely spoilerish, don't post it! Or if you absolutely can't help yourself, for the love of Rakka spoiler-tag it! I beg you! /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

I have seen through Rogue 5. I'll probably post more thoughts after watching Rogue 6 or 7, depending what happens next.

If anyone else is watching for the first time and wants to play along too, be my guest! Just no spoilers past what I've seen. /images/graemlins/catgirl0.gif

[bctaris]

Don't get too hung up on Abe's involvement (only the character designer here), or even Ueda. This one is writer Chiaki Konaka's baby. And it's easier to conceptualize as something between two of Konaka's most cerebral series: Serial Experiments Lain and The Big O. I feel this is the grandest thing (and arguably most digestible of his dramatic work) that Konaka has ever conceived.

Another crew member to pay attention to in retrospect is Hidetoshi Kaneko, the art director. The design of the show, and especially what awaits in the final few episodes is remarkable.

Good viewing. This is one of my favorites.

[cyclograph]

I'm firmly of the opinion that both Ueda & ABe have unresolved personal issues with grief and loss. It seems to permeate projects they are involved with in it's own subtle (or not, in this case) and intensely melancholic way... even NieA_7, IMO. Not that I mind, it's beautifully interwoven and complimentary with the stories created, but definitely present.
In Texh it's just brandished with a really big stick! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:
Don't get too hung up on Abe's involvement (only the character designer here), or even Ueda. This one is writer Chiaki Konaka's baby.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's inaccurate. Ueda was the one who created Texhnolyze. He got Konaka on board. He talks about it in the interview on one of the discs. He was clearly the driving force behind the project.

[bctaris]

[ QUOTE ]
Christian said:
[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:
Don't get too hung up on Abe's involvement (only the character designer here), or even Ueda. This one is writer Chiaki Konaka's baby.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's inaccurate. Ueda was the one who created Texhnolyze. He got Konaka on board. He talks about it in the interview on one of the discs. He was clearly the driving force behind the project.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but while Ueda laid done the concept, (and producers are by definition the driving force behind these sorts of things) Konaka, as with Lain, basically constructed it into what we know it as. His specific credit as a scenarist (creating the general outline for the work) speaks to that. But they were at least complimentary to each other. I also mention it as Konaka's "baby" in that it is infused with many of his trademark flourishes and subtle, multi-layered twists.

Ueda got Konaka on board and made him the chief writer and story editor for a reason--he knew what sort of a concept it was and needed Konaka's specific talent for pulling it off.

(Either way, as my original post was responding to, Abe had nothing to do with it story-wise, as some continue to think with any show he's involved in, except Haibane Renmei and to a lesser extent NieA_7--owing I think to the way Geneon first promoted him in North America when Lain and NieA_7 came out as a way to boost the audience of either property, and eventual future titles.)

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:
Don't get too hung up on Abe's involvement (only the character designer here), or even Ueda.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I realize he was 'merely' the character designer, but he's still my favorite character designer, and that was my main incentive in getting this series. Being dark and brooding and dystopian was a plus. And if I discover another new director and writer because of it, even better.

As I alluded to in my initial post, this style of series is one of my favorites... lots of imagery, a complex narrative (as I see it so far), and the sci-fi angle.

And back to ABe, while I know that this is not "his" show (that honor would be most accurately applied to Haibane Renmei), I have enjoyed everything he's contributed to so far, so I saw no reason not to add Texhnolyze to the collection. So far it has not disappointed.

I'll be watching episode 6 today after work, so I'll possibly have more feedback tonight.

[indigo0086]

*hovers over chair with hand raised high in the air*

The answer is "this anime kicks ass".

The ending was a total bummer and I disagree wit Abe's involvement being trivial at best. His characters look and mood have always stood out more than just in the art. I have all the art pencilboards and looking at them just looks like they inspire deeper story. It's his inspiration that stands out, not just the drawing.

[bctaris]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
And back to ABe, while I know that this is not "his" show (that honor would be most accurately applied to Haibane Renmei), I have enjoyed everything he's contributed to so far, so I saw no reason not to add Texhnolyze to the collection. So far it has not disappointed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly. His designs are very iconic and big draws, and Geneon I'm sure knows it, the same way they use Range Murata as a draw for his shows, like Last Exile. I was drawn to the series by four factors: Abe, Ueda, Konaka...and for the third Abe-associated series in a row, the New Generation Pictures English dub. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]

indigo0086 said:
...I disagree wit Abe's involvement being trivial at best. His characters look and mood have always stood out more than just in the art. I have all the art pencilboards and looking at them just looks like they inspire deeper story. It's his inspiration that stands out, not just the drawing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I won't disagree. The designs inspiring character development is a good point.

[christianlf]

[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:
[ QUOTE ]
Christian said:
[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:
Don't get too hung up on Abe's involvement (only the character designer here), or even Ueda. This one is writer Chiaki Konaka's baby.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's inaccurate. Ueda was the one who created Texhnolyze. He got Konaka on board. He talks about it in the interview on one of the discs. He was clearly the driving force behind the project.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but while Ueda laid done the concept, (and producers are by definition the driving force behind these sorts of things)

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes. Some producers, such as Ueda, like to be heavily involved in creative aspects while others may just be money people.

[ QUOTE ]
Konaka, as with Lain, basically constructed it into what we know it as. His specific credit as a scenarist (creating the general outline for the work) speaks to that. But they were at least complimentary to each other. I also mention it as Konaka's "baby" in that it is infused with many of his trademark flourishes and subtle, multi-layered twists.

[/ QUOTE ]

You'll get no argument from me that Konaka was a very important part of making Texhnolyze what it was, but I disagree with your downplaying Ueda's creative role. Without Konaka, Texhnolyze would have been a very different show. Without Ueda, Texhnolyze wouldn't exist.

[ QUOTE ]

(Either way, as my original post was responding to, Abe had nothing to do with it story-wise, as some continue to think with any show he's involved in, except Haibane Renmei and to a lesser extent NieA_7--owing I think to the way Geneon first promoted him in North America when Lain and NieA_7 came out as a way to boost the audience of either property, and eventual future titles.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I know. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif You and I used to spread the word quite a bit when Texhnolyze was first hitting R1-land.

[JackProton]

[ QUOTE ]
Cyclograph said:
I'm firmly of the opinion that both Ueda & ABe have unresolved personal issues with grief and loss. It seems to permeate projects they are involved with in it's own subtle (or not, in this case) and intensely melancholic way... even NieA_7, IMO. Not that I mind, it's beautifully interwoven and complimentary with the stories created, but definitely present.
In Texh it's just brandished with a really big stick! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I would disagree with the idea that these are "unresolved personal issues" rather than attempts to tackle very serious issues concerning the human condition. Grief and loss are really only part of the equation. More importantly, I see something of a Buddhist philosophical framework at work which imparts a positive and hopeful message that grief and loss can be overcome once change is accepted as a constant.

Texnolyze, however, does appear quite different to me. Perhaps because it seems to be more of an allegory in nature. Certain symbols like flowers and foxes make some sense but... limbs? I admit I haven't been able to completely parse it yet.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

This'll be short and sweet... I don't want to overanalyze until after I've finished the series. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Ichise is still coming to terms with his Texhnolyzation and learning how to move with his new limbs, and gets some pretty good practice at the end of the episode. /images/graemlins/wink.gif It seems like now I've got the cause to root for him as the series goes on.

Ran remains very much in the background, and she seems to be some sort of guardian angel to Ichise, monitoring his progress. I'm very curious as to where their fates will intertwine and what happens here.

Yoshii is still being his mysterious outsider self, trying to get inside the system to break it down. At least that's where it looks like it's going.

I like the very incremental narrative the series uses. Each episode seems to be a relatively small slice of time, and there's still no clear indication of where everything is going. I'm expecting the unexpected, but that's a good thing.

Rogue 7 is tomorrow evening, and possibly another post by me, especially if something big happens.

[JackProton]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
This'll be short and sweet... I don't want to overanalyze until after I've finished the series. /images/graemlins/wink.gif


[/ QUOTE ]
But that's half the fun!

[bctaris]

[ QUOTE ]
Christian said:
You'll get no argument from me that Konaka was a very important part of making Texhnolyze what it was, but I disagree with your downplaying Ueda's creative role. Without Konaka, Texhnolyze would have been a very different show. Without Ueda, Texhnolyze wouldn't exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. And I'll certainly give Ueda credit for getting this type of very irregular show made and aired and licensed in the first place. That takes more than vision and charisma, or whatever he's imbued with. He's almost a maverick.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

(Either way, as my original post was responding to, Abe had nothing to do with it story-wise, as some continue to think with any show he's involved in, except Haibane Renmei and to a lesser extent NieA_7--owing I think to the way Geneon first promoted him in North America when Lain and NieA_7 came out as a way to boost the audience of either property, and eventual future titles.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, I know. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif You and I used to spread the word quite a bit when Texhnolyze was first hitting R1-land.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I can't wait to do it some more. Especially when SENieA here gets to the last couple volumes and my favorite, trippiest part of the show. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[Teiresias]

One comment--your character focus is a tad askew: Your ignoring the most interesting character: <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>Doc</span>

Is her gig as straightforward as it seems? Or, is something else going on with her?

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:
And I can't wait to do it some more. Especially when SENieA here gets to the last couple volumes and my favorite, trippiest part of the show. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooo... trippy, I'm looking forward to it!

and Teiresias, one reason I haven't addressed more characters is I still haven't memorized all their names yet. Like the woman that Texhnolyzed Ichise... something seems to be up with her too, and the leader of the Ohgam, or whatever that organization is called. I get so caught up in the visuals that I don't even have all the names straight yet. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

Anyway, in about an hour or so I'll be firing up the 7th episode, and another post tonight if it seems warranted.

[bctaris]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:
And I can't wait to do it some more. Especially when SENieA here gets to the last couple volumes and my favorite, trippiest part of the show. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooo... trippy, I'm looking forward to it!

and Teiresias, one reason I haven't addressed more characters is I still haven't memorized all their names yet. Like the woman that Texhnolyzed Ichise... something seems to be up with her too, and the leader of the Ohgam, or whatever that organization is called. I get so caught up in the visuals that I don't even have all the names straight yet. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

The woman goes simply by "Doc", so easy enough. But I know what you mean by the names. Once you get to the secondary characters (past Onishi, Yoshii, Ran, Ichise, etc.) it's very difficult to keep track.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

Well now! Things are certainly getting interesting. Yoshii seems to have set the wheels in motion for his plan. Ichise has been 'upgraded', and the local street gang seems interested in his help against the Organo now.

I know there was a lot more that happened in this episode, but I think I need a little bit more exposition, so I'll probably tie it in and refer back to it again after I watch episode 8.

...and I almost melted when I saw Ran sleeping at the bar. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif I know what you're thinking... this is not the kind of show to be looking for things to say 'awww' at. I can't help it, it was a Rakka moment! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Teiresias]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:

and Teiresias, one reason I haven't addressed more characters is I still haven't memorized all their names yet. Like the woman that Texhnolyzed Ichise... something seems to be up with her too.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

Just another short post with some quick reflections... things are getting interesting in a hurry!

Doc's experiments continue, and Yoshii's secret mission seems to be having the desired effect.

I still don't have enough pieces to put anything together yet (not that I was expecting to), but I like where the series is going. More feedback to follow after either episode 9 or 10...

[cheezisgoooood]

This is more a question about the DVD's than the series.

I got lenticular onserts with two of the volumes I got from Right Stuf, but what exactly are they for? They look like the mousepad I got with my GunGrave set, but they seem a bit too small to work like that. So if they're not mousepads, what are they supposed to be used for? Just to look at? 'Cuz I dunno where to put them /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

Btw, I'm gonna be starting it for the first time soon, and I can't wait. I also have Haibane Renmei, but I am far more interested in Texh.

[bctaris]

[ QUOTE ]
cheezisgoooood said:
This is more a question about the DVD's than the series.

I got lenticular onserts with two of the volumes I got from Right Stuf, but what exactly are they for? They look like the mousepad I got with my GunGrave set, but they seem a bit too small to work like that. So if they're not mousepads, what are they supposed to be used for? Just to look at? 'Cuz I dunno where to put them /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to look at, really. Or maybe think of them as small pencil boards or something. I just slid them over the front covers, myself.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

[ QUOTE ]
cheezisgoooood said:
Btw, I'm gonna be starting it for the first time soon, and I can't wait. I also have Haibane Renmei, but I am far more interested in Texh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haibane Renmei remains near the top of the heap for me, but it doesn't make me appreciate or enjoy Texhnolyze any less. One thing I have noticed that makes Texhnolyze stand out among the projects ABe has been part of is that Texhnolyze feels like a bigger show, 24-episode run aside for a moment.

Lain, NieA_7, and Haibane Renmei all have relatively small casts and focus on one or two characters, while Texhnolyze has more people to follow, and a much larger world that it takes place in.

From another Texhnolyze newbie still working on the series... if you like dark sci-fi, this rates highly!

[cheezisgoooood]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
if you like dark sci-fi, this rates highly!

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo.

[leongsh]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
[ QUOTE ]
cheezisgoooood said:
Btw, I'm gonna be starting it for the first time soon, and I can't wait. I also have Haibane Renmei, but I am far more interested in Texh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haibane Renmei remains near the top of the heap for me, but it doesn't make me appreciate or enjoy Texhnolyze any less. One thing I have noticed that makes Texhnolyze stand out among the projects ABe has been part of is that Texhnolyze feels like a bigger show, 24-episode run aside for a moment.

Lain, NieA_7, and Haibane Renmei all have relatively small casts and focus on one or two characters, while Texhnolyze has more people to follow, and a much larger world that it takes place in.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, notwithstanding the 24 episodes, it is a larger, more encompassing show compared to the other Abe/Ueda shows.

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
From another Texhnolyze newbie still working on the series... if you like dark sci-fi, this rates highly!

[/ QUOTE ]
Just a simple hint - if Haibane Renmei is one end of the scale in terms of hope and positive vibes, Texhnolyze is at the opposite end. Brace yourself.

Personally, I find Texhnolyze is the most satisfying of the Abe/Ueda shows.

[bctaris]

[ QUOTE ]
leongsh said:
[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
Haibane Renmei remains near the top of the heap for me, but it doesn't make me appreciate or enjoy Texhnolyze any less. One thing I have noticed that makes Texhnolyze stand out among the projects ABe has been part of is that Texhnolyze feels like a bigger show, 24-episode run aside for a moment.

Lain, NieA_7, and Haibane Renmei all have relatively small casts and focus on one or two characters, while Texhnolyze has more people to follow, and a much larger world that it takes place in.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, notwithstanding the 24 episodes, it is a larger, more encompassing show compared to the other Abe/Ueda shows.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except Texhnolyze is actually a unique length of 22 episodes long. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[leongsh]

[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:
Except Texhnolyze is actually a unique length of 22 episodes long. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Just followed what was posted /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

[ QUOTE ]
leongsh said:
[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:
Except Texhnolyze is actually a unique length of 22 episodes long. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Just followed what was posted /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops, that's a goof on my part. I knew it was an unusual number less than 26, and I never looked at the last DVD to double check the correct number.

Maybe all the complete series I just got from Geneon's Bounty sale confused me. /images/graemlins/wink.gif (Ironically, this wasn't one of them... I got the Lenticular Box back in the summer.)

[cheezisgoooood]

[ QUOTE ]
leongsh said:
[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
[ QUOTE ]
cheezisgoooood said:
Btw, I'm gonna be starting it for the first time soon, and I can't wait. I also have Haibane Renmei, but I am far more interested in Texh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haibane Renmei remains near the top of the heap for me, but it doesn't make me appreciate or enjoy Texhnolyze any less. One thing I have noticed that makes Texhnolyze stand out among the projects ABe has been part of is that Texhnolyze feels like a bigger show, 24-episode run aside for a moment.

Lain, NieA_7, and Haibane Renmei all have relatively small casts and focus on one or two characters, while Texhnolyze has more people to follow, and a much larger world that it takes place in.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, notwithstanding the 24 episodes, it is a larger, more encompassing show compared to the other Abe/Ueda shows.

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
From another Texhnolyze newbie still working on the series... if you like dark sci-fi, this rates highly!

[/ QUOTE ]
Just a simple hint - if Haibane Renmei is one end of the scale in terms of hope and positive vibes, Texhnolyze is at the opposite end. Brace yourself.

Personally, I find Texhnolyze is the most satisfying of the Abe/Ueda shows.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that's the thing, the way I watch anime is if I watch a dark anime or two, I'll immediately follow them up with a lighter show. In this case, I just finished all of my DVD's of Ghost in the Shell season 1 and 2 (My new number one) and since that's a dark scifi and I wouldn't want to follow it up with yet another dark scifi, I'm gonna be watching Haibane Renmei next, then I'll most likely follow that up with Texhnolyze.

I'm a big fan of Lain, so hopefully I'll enjoy these two just as much.

[JackProton]

[ QUOTE ]
leongsh said:
Personally, I find Texhnolyze is the most satisfying of the Abe/Ueda shows.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why's that?

[leongsh]

[ QUOTE ]
JackProton said:
[ QUOTE ]
leongsh said:
Personally, I find Texhnolyze is the most satisfying of the Abe/Ueda shows.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why's that?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll try to put it succinctly with quickie comparisons thrown in. Enough to get a feel but hopefully not spoiling anything for anyone whenever possible.

Texhnolyze covers a wider scope with certain views of a decaying world, the continuing struggle for power and control, and living for survival in such a world. It does not flinch in showing far people would go while trying to maintain the status quo or trying to usurp it for personal gain. It is bleak in its move towards the endgame. I'm reminded of the evocative words from the WB Yeats poem entitled "The Second Coming", the opening words follow:

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

Haibane Renmei is a simpler more personal story with a more emotional focus on second chances, acceptances and forgiveness. The setting is in a rural village surroundings to remind us of the peace that's often been missing in our lives where we can reflect and work. It would not work if set within a urban setting as the stresses of urban life would have muddled the main message. It gives people who complete the show a satisfying and, possibly, that euphoric emotional release from the second half of the 13-episode show.

NieA_7 is a comedy with a sly and serious observation about how aliens are perceived and treated in Japanese society. The aliens in the show being a double meaning on aliens as in non-citizen residents. It is trying to inform Japanese people watching the show that aliens are normal people too. They work to improve their lot and standing in society. And amongst them, there are those that are seen as totally non-existant due to falling out of the classification system in place.

Need to do a rewatch of Serial Experiments Lain before I can confidently comment on it. It's been awhile. From what I can remember, I wasn't that taken to what I think is its commentary on digital life and implications of a digital existence.


[edited the title - spelling error /images/graemlins/tongue.gif]

[roastedpekingduck]

I have to admit that though I enjoyed Haibane Renmei and Texhnolyze a huge huge amount, Niea and SE Lain came short for me. I bought the first volumes of Niea and Lain expecting something similiar to those two, and though they were good at what they did, it just wasn't my kind of show. I didn't quite understand the character interactions of NieA, and thus could not associate with them. The humor also wasn't in my lane. And though SE Lain was intriguing, I found myself waiting for the episode to end, because for some reason, I just couldn't care for the characters. Anyhow, loved Texhnolyze and glad you enjoyed it. I'm not going to rewatch it for a long time though, because it, like NTHT, is such a draining experiences to watch.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

Another episode that is part of a larger context, so it's not so easy to comment on it directly, which is frustrating because it makes me question the usefulness of this post. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

What is clear is that the lines in the sand are becoming more defined between Onishi and the Organo and Yoshii. Yoshii is out to show the people the power they have within themselves, they just have to take it.

I have a feeling from now until the end, episodes on their own will be harder to describe, since the overall events encompass more than an episode each.

We'll see what happens after Rogue 10!

[bctaris]

[ QUOTE ]
leongsh said:
NieA_7 is a comedy with a sly and serious observation about how aliens are perceived and treated in Japanese society. The aliens in the show being a double meaning on aliens as in non-citizen residents. It is trying to inform Japanese people watching the show that aliens are normal people too. They work to improve their lot and standing in society. And amongst them, there are those that are seen as totally non-existant due to falling out of the classification system in place.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely with your assessment of Texh, and count it as extremely satisfying as well, (thanks for the Yeats, too) but the summation of NieA_7 sells it a little short, I think. There was more going on than just the alien angle. Human interaction and social change, most importantly the bulldozing of the past in Japanese society in heedless pursuit of the future (where even a traditional old bath house, or fireflies on a summer evening, were as alien as the mothership) was a big enough part of the show to be the dual intertwining theme.

Emotionally, I think NieA_7 is the more complex show for me, while Texhnolyze (both shows are in my top 10, by the way) is more psychologically and intellectually complex. Both are eternally satisfying to me, and more so than Haibane Renmei or Lain.

End result: Yasuyuki Ueda is a genius.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

Well, I never saw that coming!

I need my notebook to sort out the factions again, too. /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif I dare say that this series will be (even more) unpredictable from here on out.

Sorry for these short (and somewhat vague) posts, but I'm trying to follow my own rule and not spoil things for the other people here who mentioned they're about to watch Texhnolyze for the first time as well.

12 episodes to go... it should be a ride.

[The Pirate Queen]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
Well, I never saw that coming!



[/ QUOTE ]

That was my reaction to most of the show, the first time I watched it. Once I find some time, it might be about time for me to rewatch this...

[JackProton]

[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:
[ QUOTE ]
leongsh said:
NieA_7 is a comedy with a sly and serious observation about how aliens are perceived and treated in Japanese society.
........


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely with your assessment of Texh, and count it as extremely satisfying as well, (thanks for the Yeats, too) but the summation of NieA_7 sells it a little short, I think. There was more going on than just the alien angle. Human interaction and social change, most importantly the bulldozing of the past in Japanese society in heedless pursuit of the future (where even a traditional old bath house, or fireflies on a summer evening, were as alien as the mothership) was a big enough part of the show to be the dual intertwining theme.


[/ QUOTE ]
Even more personal, I saw in it the human difficulty of living in the now, being stuck in the no-man's land between the comfortable past and the uncertain future, and dealing with the pain and inevitability of change. Impressive commentary on the human condition from something that looks like a standard silly comedy on the surface.

[ QUOTE ]

End result: Yasuyuki Ueda is a genius.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep.

[JackProton]

[ QUOTE ]
leongsh said:
[ QUOTE ]
JackProton said:
[ QUOTE ]
leongsh said:
Personally, I find Texhnolyze is the most satisfying of the Abe/Ueda shows.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why's that?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll try to put it succinctly with quickie comparisons thrown in. Enough to get a feel but hopefully not spoiling anything for anyone whenever possible.
........


[/ QUOTE ]
Was intrigued by your statement -- it seemed to me that Texhnolyze was one of the least accessible of the bunch being much darker and rather arcane in nature and not something I'd have expected many to ultimately call "satisfying". Still, I do love the show.

Nice comparison! I enjoyed how you answered with a few lines poetry - I've always considered these shows rather lyrical, almost like watching a poem at times.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

Things are starting to shift around now... as implied by the episode title, Ichise is still a wanderer without a place to go. Ran seems frustrated that the more things change, the more that they don't. She also wishes her visions would stop. There also seems to be some infighting and corruption going on with the Organo.

I can truly say I have no idea how things are going to play out next. This, of course, is a good thing. I can also easily tell that I won't be so bewildered the next time around. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. Once I finish, I'm sure I'll be able to go back and notice a whole lot of things that I didn't before.

Halfway through, half left... so far, Texhnolyze gets a resounding /images/graemlins/stunned1.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

After a somewhat chaotic first half, it seems like things are settling in as the show heads into the third act. Third acts can be very interesting, and it looks like Texhnolyze will be no exception.

Ran's role has changed somewhat, or at least become more clear. I've got a clearer picture of who the Gabe faction is now. Ichise seems to have been forced to a side, out of circumstance more than by choice. The Organo looks like it feels threatened as far as its control over Lukuss is concerned. The Union isn't in the picture too much... right now. It took a while, but now I think I finally know who's who! /images/graemlins/sweat000.gif

I think I'm going to enjoy the next part of the story quite a bit, now that things seem to have settled some. But I fully expect to be thrown for another loop before long!

From the preview for Rogue 14, it looks like I'll soon find out what Doc has been up to lately...

[banksie]

If you are interested, I've put up a volume by volume analysis of the series similar to what I did for RahXephon. Each entry only presupposes that you have watched up to the volume it is linked with. I also still have yet to finish my wrap up one for volume six. But you might find it interesting reading while you do this. It can be found here :-

http://khantazi.org/Rec/Anime/Index.html

[banksie]

[ QUOTE ]
leongsh said:
Need to do a rewatch of Serial Experiments Lain before I can confidently comment on it. It's been awhile. From what I can remember, I wasn't that taken to what I think is its commentary on digital life and implications of a digital existence.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd argue Lain is existential philosophy fused with Zen Buddhism. The story structure in particular is patterned in a way that reminds me of a Zen ripple pond. (I forget the proper name for them, the gravel ponds that are raked with ripples in the gravel.)

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

[ QUOTE ]
banksie said:
If you are interested, I've put up a volume by volume analysis of the series similar to what I did for RahXephon. Each entry only presupposes that you have watched up to the volume it is linked with. I also still have yet to finish my wrap up one for volume six. But you might find it interesting reading while you do this. It can be found here :-

http://khantazi.org/Rec/Anime/Index.html

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll have to remember that. I usually like to reserve reading other interpretations of a series until after I've completed it, since I like to try and figure things out myself without a cheat sheet, as it were, the first time around. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I should be done with Texhnolyze by no later than mid-November, with only 8 episodes to go. I may go through shows slow by others' standards, but it's just the right pace for me. /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

I know I'm digging up my own thread, but it was time for more reflection.

At this late stage in the story, it's all coming together, and I think that it's safe to say that I've reached the "trippy" part that bctaris mentioned earlier on. This was an excellent episode. It was the first one to have that "feel" that I am accustomed to from Lain, and to a lesser extent NieA_7 and Haibane Renmei. I feel like at this part of the story that the setup for the end, and probably the end itself when I get to it in a few days, will pay off in much the same way that the previous three series have.

This has been a very different series due to the length and scope, but all of a sudden it's very familiar, and I'm looking forward to the last 3 episodes! /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[Jonathan Klein]

Episode 19 reminded me a lot of the Wizard of Oz.

Regards,

JK

"Hey...why am I talking to a chair?" /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[bctaris]

[ QUOTE ]
Jonathan Klein said:
Episode 19 reminded me a lot of the Wizard of Oz.



[/ QUOTE ]

As conceived by Edward Hopper. /images/graemlins/happy.gif Nearly every shot either is one of his paintings, or an homage to one.

I'll hearken back to my comment earlier in the thread to pay attention to the art design of the series--the juxtaposition of certain episodes to each other helps to highlight the emotions and motives and themes present.

From here on though we descend into unrelenting Roman tragedy. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[Teiresias]

[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:

From here on though we descend into unrelenting Roman tragedy. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Romans do satire--I think you want the Greeks! But, you've got the right of it. Time for a veritable bacchanalia of the penthean sort. /images/graemlins/horse.gif

[bctaris]

[ QUOTE ]
Teiresias said:
[ QUOTE ]
bctaris said:

From here on though we descend into unrelenting Roman tragedy. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Romans do satire--I think you want the Greeks! But, you've got the right of it. Time for a veritable bacchanalia of the penthean sort. /images/graemlins/horse.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Roman tragedy (at least in its earlier golden age) was known for its <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>blood lust and violence--especially the blood part--different from traditional Greek tragedy that showed violence either subtly or off-stage, despite its inherent brutality.[/i] /images/graemlins/noseblef.gif</span>

[cheezisgoooood]

Well I've just finished the fifth disc and I have to say, it was my favorite disc. Up to this point I've been confused on a few things like what Yoshii was talking about with the "life energy" and what exactly the obelisk is supposed to do, but this disc cleared up a lot of that for me, and it is now obvious that the grass isn't necessarily greener in every sense above ground.

I don't think I've ever felt quite as spaced out watching an anime as I have with this series. Episode 19 was just beyond weird, and I can't wait to eventually find out what it was all about, everyone looking all fuzzed out, radios lying around repeating the same phrase over and over, and some mention about humanity slowly "dying" from having "grown old." Very trippy.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

/images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

I knew going into this series not to expect a happy ending, but this just killed me.

Next time I watch Texhnolyze, it'll probably make much more sense, and I'll be able to pick up on a lot of things that I probably missed this first time around. I enjoyed the series quite a bit, but the ending is one of the saddest I have ever seen. <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>I just wish there was an alternate ending where Ran lived. She deserved so much better. /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif</span>

Prepare yourself, cheez, the last disc is a doozy.

[roastedpekingduck]

Niea, for the ending did you get the impression that <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>mankind was going extinct with the ending? That was the impression that I got. I thought another one of the main themes of the story was that it is better to live in animalistic suffering and still experience raw emotion, rather than be contained like the people of the "Upper Class", who live in a civilized manner, but obviously are just missing the human component. What makes humans humans are their emotions. I also thought that the story mean to illustrate death as a sort of release. Ran smiles as she falls into the waterfall, and Ichise also smiles as he expires and watches the projection on his arm. Another message of the show I thought was to show the chaotic effect that dreams had. I watched this series in tandem with rewatching Gungrave and Berserk, so those three ended up complementing each other quite well in depicting dreams and ambition. Coincidentally, all three of those series also depict the role of protection.</span> Anyhow, I highly recommend watching Texhnolyze, Gungrave, and Berserk. They unwittingly complement each other.

[leongsh]

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
/images/graemlins/cry00000.gif

I knew going into this series not to expect a happy ending, but this just killed me.

[/ QUOTE ]
And the best thing about how it ended, they did not sugarcoat the conclusion and showed how bleak it is.

[ QUOTE ]
Serial Experiments NieA said:
Prepare yourself, cheez, the last disc is a doozy.

[/ QUOTE ]
Shh.... /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

EDIT:
By the way, have you read my earlier post above on comparing the different shows and quoting a W.B. Yeats poem entitled "The Second Coming"? Have a read of that poem.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

I will respond in a thread I am about to create for the sole purpose of keeping this one spoiler-free. /images/graemlins/sdsmiley.gif

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

[ QUOTE ]
leongsh said:

By the way, have you read my earlier post above on comparing the different shows and quoting a W.B. Yeats poem entitled "The Second Coming"? Have a read of that poem.


[/ QUOTE ]

I took a look at that post again just now, and I should find the whole poem and read it too, thanks for the heads up!


...I've also adjusted the sig line below that goes with my avatar to a line from "When Reason Fails", <span style='color:#dddddd;background:#dddddd'>the Ran image song</span>, which really gets to the heart of my feelings on the show, I think. Very poignant lyrics.

[Chloe]

I've been watching this show this week too; didn't know you were doing a thread on it SE NieA, since I usually only come here Thursdays. I get the impression form your posts that you started watching more then one a night? Did you get sucked into the story? Always a good sign, "Just one more episode..." /images/graemlins/happy.gif

I'm only up to episode 17, I tend to watch my anime on a DVD basis. Going to finish the last two discs today though, since I wasn't able to go to work today. Everything I expected from this show, so far as having a dystopian theme. Abe said in the interview on one of the discs that he liked Tex because of the density of the artwork he was able to do, and I can't argue with that. This show and Lain both gave me fits because there is so much going on visually that I just can't take it all in at one go. I know the third time I watched Lain it made a hell of a lot more sense just because I had already seen the visuals twice before and could focus on the story better, instead of just staring at the screen with glazed eyeballs.

Considering the differing opinions voiced so far; would you all say your interpretations of the various shows mentioned was affected by the order you viewed them in? My own path here was Lain - Niea - Lain - Tex vol.1 - Lain - Haibane - now Tex again. I KNOW I missed quite a bit of what was going on under the surface with NieA; I went into that expecting it to be fluff, but it was obviously much more. I was watching it on auto pilot since I was using it as stress relief after watching Berserk IIRC, and I was not really trying to "get it", just let it wash over me. I think I was expecting it to be more of a comedy. Have to watch that one again sometime.

After having seen so much of Lain, I still feel it is the most disjointed out of them all. I only emotionally connected with the show in fits and starts, the subject matter is so cold and unpleasant for me personally it sort of turned me off right from the start. I like the show a lot, rec. it a lot too, but it's hard for me to grasp the larger implications in that show.

Haibane I had very little to go on to start with, but just blew me away emotionally. I got so into the characters I was terrified of watching the last disc; I almost DIDN'T want to know how it ended. Like Fruits Basket it started out slow, moves slow, builds up to a crescendo and then drops you off a cliff. Only differrence being since Fruits Basket was so long they went and did it several times. /images/graemlins/sweat200.gif So far, Haibane is the best for me, by far.

Tex I need to see the rest of, as I said, but I am already not sure where I will be able to rank it among those four. Not that it really matters; all of them are really good IMO, it's just a question of degreees.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

Actually, I kept to watching an episode a night probably 5 nights out of the week. I don't know if my mind could have handled more than 25 minutes of Texhnolyze a night. /images/graemlins/wink.gif There were some occasions I was actually afraid to watch the next episode, for fear of what might happen.

After one viewing, I've placed Texhnolyze alongside NieA_7 in a tie for second among the ABe series. (Lain and Haibane Renmei are tied at the top for me). I am almost certain that when I watch it the next time, I'll be able to get a whole lot more out of it and see all kinds of things I missed the first time around.

I won't spoil the end of Texhnolyze for you, but the way the last few episodes are presented will make everything seem familiar again as far as the ABe shows go. It's a much larger story at the start, which took some getting used to, but then all of a sudden it felt like the previous three again, Lain especially.