Captain Herlock history [Archive]

Bumble

11-20-2006, 08:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Helen Fayle said:
Try here: http://www.geocities.com/pollywantsaharlock/about/introduction.html

as well... like most sites, still gets a few points wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm curious, I stumbled upon this very site the other week and found it to be quite informative, especially about some of the more esoteric Matsumoto manga - what did the site get wrong? /images/graemlins/happy.gif

Actually, inaccurate reporting of Matsumoto anime and (especially) manga in English seems to be endemic judging from the number of comments from more enlightened (Japanese speakers/readers) individuals out there.

It's a great pity that there isn't some sort of English-language central resource for as with French fans for instance...

geraldr

11-20-2006, 10:52 AM

You must remember that when it comes, not only to Harlock/Herlock, but anything in the Matsumoto universe, continuity is NOT an issue. Every single Harlock show must be taken as a single entity unto its own and has nothing to do with anything else. Don't try to think about it or you'll hurt yourself /images/graemlins/happy.gif.

mistressh

11-20-2006, 10:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bumble said:
I'm curious, I stumbled upon this very site the other week and found it to be quite informative, especially about some of the more esoteric Matsumoto manga - what did the site get wrong? /images/graemlins/happy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

As usual the devil's in the details, but for e.g. the Endless Odyssey page has a few errors when describing events and conversations - mostly in respect of that devilishly puzzling last episode. And then the amusing "pants" analysis kinda falls down on the symbolism when you take SSX's overly fluffy version of Harlock into account, not to mention that since he changes clothes so frequently in the manga the whole bet's off anyway... <g> Without taking each page apart those are the ones I clearly remember offhand without spending too much time going back over the site - that and the holes in the manga history, which most people would I suspect be hard pressed to fill...

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, inaccurate reporting of Matsumoto anime and (especially) manga in English seems to be endemic judging from the number of comments from more enlightened (Japanese speakers/readers) individuals out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's lack of access to the material for one, I suspect, since so much of it is hard to come by (the older short stories for e.g.) and also the fact that apart from Viz's abysmal translation of 5 out of 7 volumes of the GE999 Eternity-hen manga, there's nothing in English of his manga... (and pitifully sparse amounts of his anime as well - especially of the good stuff!)

[ QUOTE ]
It's a great pity that there isn't some sort of English-language central resource for as with French fans for instance...

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought about it myself once(the gods of Valhalla know, I've got probably 98% of the raw material by now - just missing a handful of uncollected chapters (DNA Sights 13/14, The Tochiro and Diver Zero 7 plus a few films and shorts...) but a)I'm still working through *reading* a 5 foot by 3foot bookcase stuffed full of Matsumoto manga - analysis is **years** off...!! b)time - I work full time, I just don't have it (and frankly, if I did put that much effort in I'd be tugging a few small-press contacts I have for the possibility of doing an unofficial guidebook rather than wrestle with html for free...!)

Bumble

11-20-2006, 11:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Helen Fayle said:
It's lack of access to the material for one, I suspect, since so much of it is hard to come by (the older short stories for e.g.) and also the fact that apart from Viz's abysmal translation of 5 out of 7 volumes of the GE999 Eternity-hen manga, there's nothing in English of his manga... (and pitifully sparse amounts of his anime as well - especially of the good stuff!)

[/ QUOTE ]

There is apparently one translated Matsumoto short in the Manga! Manga! book, entitled (at least in English) "Ghost Warrior". Also, I'm curious as to why you say that Viz's translated version of the Galaxy Express 999 manga was abysmal? This is really the first time I've heard such a strongly-negative comment against it.

Was it too many shortcuts dialogue-wise or something...? It's even more the pity as the sole example of Matsumoto manga in English! On the other hand, I certainly think that Viz's treatment of the Galaxy Express 999 movies was abysmal! It would have been a hoot to hear Scott McNeil's Harlock! /images/graemlins/happy.gif (Or /images/graemlins/sad.gif depending on your opinion! /images/graemlins/happy.gif)

11-20-2006, 12:37 PM

I really liked Viz' translation of the new GE999 but this is the first I've heard of them not finishing it - as far as I knew, they caught up with Matsumoto and then stopped.

Doh - accidentally hit send and then had to go stir custard....

So do the 2 untranslated volumes offer any conclusions? I've just noticed that the original GE999 manga appears to be available in French, which I'm more likely to be able to translate. Maybe one day funds will permit.

I'm really enjoying some fansubs of the first Harlock tv series I've come across - especially the music!

2nd edit: The AoDVD manga comparison chart lists 5 US volumes and 5 Japanese volumes...

J

DrMM

11-20-2006, 05:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Severance Darkseed said:
You must remember that when it comes, not only to Harlock/Herlock, but anything in the Matsumoto universe, continuity is NOT an issue. Every single Harlock show must be taken as a single entity unto its own and has nothing to do with anything else. Don't try to think about it or you'll hurt yourself /images/graemlins/happy.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotcha. It's just made me curious, I suppose. It's been interesting to read though -- I knew Matsumoto had a large body of work, I just didn't realize how large.

Panon

11-20-2006, 07:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
DrMM said:
[ QUOTE ]
Severance Darkseed said:
You must remember that when it comes, not only to Harlock/Herlock, but anything in the Matsumoto universe, continuity is NOT an issue. Every single Harlock show must be taken as a single entity unto its own and has nothing to do with anything else. Don't try to think about it or you'll hurt yourself /images/graemlins/happy.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotcha. It's just made me curious, I suppose. It's been interesting to read though -- I knew Matsumoto had a large body of work, I just didn't realize how large.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you want some more interesting read, you should probably check out http://www.cornponeflicks.org/harlock/continuity.html - it should make fairly clear why trying to make a lot of sense about Harlock's history is painful.

mistressh

11-21-2006, 07:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Jonathan Laidlow said:
I really liked Viz' translation of the new GE999 but this is the first I've heard of them not finishing it - as far as I knew, they caught up with Matsumoto and then stopped.

2nd edit: The AoDVD manga comparison chart lists 5 US volumes and 5 Japanese volumes...

J

[/ QUOTE ]

The list's a couple of years out of date - there are now 7 volumes in Japan, and several chapters still uncollected (except for a Big Comics special or two).

As for Viz's version - I thought a) that flipping a manga wherin two main characters have distinctive facial scarring was particularly dumb (especially when they then leave the frontispieces unflipped with the correct orientation!), and b)there are some errors of translation based on a lack of familiarity with Harlock's stock phrases ("waga tomo" for instance gets translated as "our" friend, when Harlock invariably refers to Tochiro as "my" friend...) and c) Whilst I can't abide the "translation police" who insist on "literal" translations (which to my mind belong in the classroom only and is a particularly stupid exercise when rendering Japanese into English at best), there are nuances of meaning that are not brought across in the translation, and some outright "that's not what he said" moments that set my teeth on edge!

OTOH, compared to Matsumoto's golden age of the 70's/early 80's, the new GE999 isn't that good to start with...

mistressh

11-21-2006, 07:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Panon said:
If you want some more interesting read, you should probably check out http://www.cornponeflicks.org/harlock/continuity.html - it should make fairly clear why trying to make a lot of sense about Harlock's history is painful.

[/ QUOTE ]

A caveat here though that Matt hasn't seen everything in the anime releases and hardly any, to my knowledge, of the manga, so his discussions do miss out some vital info...

...I wonder if he's gotten around to removing the (rather premature) notice of Makio Inoue's demise yet?? <g> Must be a big surprise to the cast of Lupin III... ;-P

H

mistressh

11-21-2006, 08:00 AM

[quoteYou must remember that when it comes, not only to Harlock/Herlock, but anything in the Matsumoto universe, continuity is NOT an issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL!

He tends at times to use his characters more like a troupe of travelling players - a few stock plays get customised for the local audience, the same actors stroll through largely the same roles (though you could argue "Harlock" stretches himself a bit in Tenshi no Jikuusen, "playing" someone who actually has a brain for once... ;-P (Though he's still typecast - the young Leonardo being as hot-headed, pigheaded and arrogant - yet soft-centred at heart - as ever our lovely but rather effete pirate can be...<g>)

I'd add as well that in the course of writing weekly/monthly serials to tight schedules, it's painfully obvious that even the manga-ka can't keep it all straight within the same story... he contradicts himself constantly! (see for e.g. the name of the Arcadia's doctor changes from "Sado" to "Zero" between volumes 1 and 3 of the 3 vol edition of SPCH... the ever changing depiction of Tetsurou's cosmo dragoon (no skull mark until late on in the run... and what the hell is up with that last volume of Queen Millennia? It reads as though it's missing about 100 pages!!)

Here's another quirk: - several events in Waga Seishun no Arcadia are drawn mostly from the Queen Emeraldas manga and bolted onto Harlock's backstory (the bar room brawl, meeting Tochiro, the Prominance of Fire, Zeda...) and the encounter in episode 30 of SPCH comes from there as well - not from Harlock's written backstory, because until Nibelung no Yubiwa, he didn't HAVE one!!

Add on Matsumoto's seeming inabilty for finish a story, and it's frustrating at times... if he wasn't so damned good at what he does I'd have thrown my hands up and given up by now!!

H

Bumble

11-21-2006, 08:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Helen Fayle said:
I'd add as well that in the course of writing weekly/monthly serials to tight schedules, it's painfully obvious that even the manga-ka can't keep it all straight within the same story... he contradicts himself constantly! (see for e.g. the name of the Arcadia's doctor changes from "Sado" to "Zero" between volumes 1 and 3 of the 3 vol edition of SPCH... the ever changing depiction of Tetsurou's cosmo dragoon (no skull mark until late on in the run... and what the hell is up with that last volume of Queen Millennia? It reads as though it's missing about 100 pages!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Given all those self-created contradictions, it's a pity you couldn't be more forgiving with regard the translation nuances that Viz apparently missed - it might make us poor plebians with virtually no realistic alternatives feel a little narked to know that this sole Matsumoto translation was so poorly regarded by truly dedicated fans! Given how poorly Matsumoto productions have fared in English, I'm personally glad anything is available in a readily accessible format at all!

I note many similar sentiments with Cornponeflicks over certain translation issues with Geneon's release of Endless Odyssey; it seems they were bitterly disappointed with some of the nuances missed (with regard to the older, unlicensed productions). At least it was licensed and released, unlike other new-ish series such as Submarine Super 99 and Space Symphony Maetel, and that's not even considering everything in Toei's grasp!

mistressh

11-21-2006, 08:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bumble said:

Given all those self-created contradictions, it's a pity you couldn't be more forgiving with regard the translation nuances that Viz apparently missed

[/ QUOTE ]

"Sounds as well as thoughts have relation both between each other and towards that which they represent, and a perception of the order of those relations, has always been found connected with a perception of the order of the relations of thoughts. Hence the language of poets has ever affected a certain uniform and harmonious recurrence of sound without which it were not poetry, and which is scarcely less indispensible to the communication of its influence, than the words themselves without reference to that peculiar order. Hence the vanity of translation; it were as wise to cast a violet into a crucible that you might discover the formal principle of its colour and odour, as seek to transfuse from one language into another the creations of a poet. The plant must spring again from its seed or it will bear no flower---and this is the burthen of the curse of Babel." (Percy Bysshe Shelley.)

To coin a phrase: "wot 'e sed..."

I have this quote copied and taped to my wordtank...

;-P

[ QUOTE ]
it might make us poor plebians with virtually no realistic alternatives feel a little narked to know that this sole Matsumoto translation was so poorly regarded by truly dedicated fans! Given how poorly Matsumoto productions have fared in English, I'm personally glad anything is available in a readily accessible format at all!

[/ QUOTE ]

I neither know nor care what the "truly dedicated fan" regards it as... I rarely converse with anyone on the subject. I merely offer my own *opinions*...!! My interest in Matsumoto's work and its animated derivatives began based on his use of archetypes, his constant re-writing and re-working of characters and themes, and his philosophical musings - it crosses over into my interests in comparative mythology and Romantic literature...!! One reason I absolutely *have* to go back to the original language, in a way... My viewpoint is therefore very specific.

H (Having to take breaks in between work!!)

Bumble

11-21-2006, 10:16 AM

I admire your viewpoints; it's clear that your linguistic knowledge can only aid in your appreciation for Matsumoto's works, most notably the recurrent themes and archetypes. /images/graemlins/happy.gif It certainly seems like you have been able to come away with a far more deep and understanding view of his work than most English-language fans (I would imagine) will ever be able to.

All I can keep doing is lamenting what a shame that Matsumoto's works seemingly have little relevance in the modern US anime market, despite early fandom's interest in Harlock et al, not to mention the possible nostalgia factor from the fact that two whole TV series aired on TV in the late 70s and 80s.

mistressh

11-21-2006, 10:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bumble said:
All I can keep doing is lamenting what a shame that Matsumoto's works seemingly have little relevance in the modern US anime market, despite early fandom's interest in Harlock et al, not to mention the possible nostalgia factor from the fact that two whole TV series aired on TV in the late 70s and 80s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm British... we didn't (and still don't)get to see anything without hunting it down!! And if I didn't have a multi-region player I'd be well stuffed...

If I'd been able to see them when I was younger I suspect I'd be an even bigger fan - discovering them 3 years ago at the age of 34 just makes me lament the years I was unaware of all of this material! ;-(

H

Vicserr

11-21-2006, 11:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Helen Fayle said:
[ QUOTE ]
Bumble said:
All I can keep doing is lamenting what a shame that Matsumoto's works seemingly have little relevance in the modern US anime market, despite early fandom's interest in Harlock et al, not to mention the possible nostalgia factor from the fact that two whole TV series aired on TV in the late 70s and 80s.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm British... we didn't (and still don't)get to see anything without hunting it down!! And if I didn't have a multi-region player I'd be well stuffed...

If I'd been able to see them when I was younger I suspect I'd be an even bigger fan - discovering them 3 years ago at the age of 34 just makes me lament the years I was unaware of all of this material! ;-(

H

[/ QUOTE ]

Or ppl. like me, that had a chance to see them as kids and now suffer because I can't get it unless I make a serious R2 investment... I remeber seeing SPCH on tv on weekends at 10AM(Dubbed in Spanish) and wish I could do so again. /images/graemlins/cry00000.gif How I miss those days now the only animated series on tv are those "sanitized for your protection" kids shows. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Bumble

11-21-2006, 11:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Helen Fayle said:
I'm British... we didn't (and still don't)get to see anything without hunting it down!! And if I didn't have a multi-region player I'd be well stuffed...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's perfectly understandable being British myself! I believe the closest we got in the 80s were token releases of the Viz Harlock stuff and the 26 Force Five episodes of Danguard Ace. However, I might even say that hacked-up, re-edited Harlock from HG, or the better-presented Starblazers wouldn't have gone amiss on UKTV...yet another wasted opportunity from those geniuses in charge! Anyway, isn't it almost a government requirement to have multi-region DVD players for anyone not in R1-land? /images/graemlins/happy.gif

11-21-2006, 04:56 PM

I think I can forgive Viz' flipping the art seeing as just about everything was flipped then (indeed I still have a hard time reading unflipped manga - it just doesn't scan into my brain in the same way as the millions of western comicbooks I've read) but those translation errors are a bit shocking considering what big fans of Matsumoto the Viz and Animerica teams claimed to be!

Not as bad as the scientific errors highlighted by Corn Pone for Endless Odyssey.

And I guess when Viz finished their run when they were up-to-date, then the market changed and poof! classic manga vanished...

mistressh

11-22-2006, 02:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Jonathan Laidlow said:
I think I can forgive Viz' flipping the art seeing as just about everything was flipped then (indeed I still have a hard time reading unflipped manga - it just doesn't scan into my brain in the same way as the millions of western comicbooks I've read)

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a tricky problem, "flipping"... on the one hand, I personally like to see the thing the way it's meant to be seen - but on the other, there's a real problem with this, in that Japanese is *meant* to be read right to left - it's natural, it flows, and the order of the text is natural and smooth. But English (and any Western language) is meant to be read left to right, and therefore the whole thing becomes that much more of an effort for the reader.

As the goal of translation is to render a composition pleasurable and accessible in the new language whilst retaining the meaning of the original, to translate properly _should_ therefore actually include flipping and re-orientating the artwork for a Western audience - even though this can make the artwork sometimes seem a bit odd.

Obviously I prefer to see the original, but that's why I learned Japanese (and hell, I *never* trust any text I haven't read in the original for myself - translation is an art, not a science after all!)(Though I rarely translate any text I read, even mentally - it's the worst possible barrier to actual comprehension!)

I've also seen it mooted that not flipping actually makes it cheaper as there's less set-up cost to consider for printing, therefore companies can make an extra buck under the guise of being "authentic"... ;-P

mistressh

11-22-2006, 06:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Jonathan Laidlow saidAnd I guess when Viz finished their run when they were up-to-date, then the market changed and poof! classic manga vanished...

[/ QUOTE ]

It's odd though - the US market seems to detest classic anime and manga, yet Europe adores it!! Italy loves its Giant robots and Matsumoto; France seems to adore Harlock and Matsumoto full stop... And despite the whinging of the "youngsters won't watch it because of the strange designs/old style animation" crowd, I've shown SPCH and GE999 (manga and anime) to a thirteen year old who took one look and loved it to *bits* - he couldn't get enough!! Response to Tetsurou's and Tochiro's notorious pototo-head designs: "I like them: they're small and funny looking like me - brave and cool, have fantastic adventures and it's nice to see a hero who isn't tall and handsome..."

In fact it made such an impression he wants to learn Japanese...!

Hell, I've even shown Waga Seishun no Arcadia to a female friend of mine who's 50, with no background in anime at all, and she fell for it as well!

(And if anyone's going to try and persuade me that the current crop of cookie cutter manga with drab, uninspired artwork that looks like it's been drawn by a five year old, with boring layouts and banal writing is an "improvement" upon Matsumoto's classic era with his dynamic, elegant artwork and flowing layouts... all I can say is just "don't". My response isn't repeatable on a moderated forum...!)

H

11-22-2006, 08:27 AM

And the UK has just had a mass-market paperback release of Tezuka's Buddha, and as i said, in France you can get the original GE999 manga... Of course ADV have just had huge success with Gatchaman in the USA...

J

Bumble

11-22-2006, 09:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Helen Fayle said:
It's odd though - the US market seems to detest classic anime and manga, yet Europe adores it!! Italy loves its Giant robots and Matsumoto; France seems to adore Harlock and Matsumoto full stop...

[/ QUOTE ]

I really think this comes down to that nostalgia factor I mentioned before. While I am surprised that Matsumoto material isn't more popular in the US considering both early fandom's interest in the shows, and more importantly, the fact that Starblazers and Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years aired on TV, it's obviously not a total shock.

The big difference is that in the US they were pretty much niche shows often (from the sounds of it) shown in awkward timeslots. Compare that to the full-on mainstream broadcasts of oodles of classic Matsumoto and super-robot series shown on French and Italian TV. No wonder there's so much classic anime and manga over there; people remember them and thus care about their continued availability. The fact that so much of it is of such high quality is a bonus! /images/graemlins/happy.gif

I'm afraid that without the nostalgia factor or extenuating circumstances (such as a cheap license), old or even 'old-looking' (often applied to the newer Matsumoto productions) anime and manga is destined to always have an uphill struggle in the English-speaking market.

That's why I sincerely hope that more discussion on such series *regardless of their age* only garners more interest in them. Such series (including the classic super-robot ones!) speak for themselves once you actually watch them; they don't need to be defended, only dissemintaed!

Take a look at the three of us here; no Matsumoto material has ever been shown on TV in the UK, but nevertheless we're all fans of his work no doubt thanks to others' recommendations! /images/graemlins/happy.gif

mistressh

11-22-2006, 09:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Jonathan Laidlow said:
And the UK has just had a mass-market paperback release of Tezuka's Buddha, and as i said, in France you can get the original GE999 manga... Of course ADV have just had huge success with Gatchaman in the USA...

J

[/ QUOTE ]

France also released SPCH and Nibelung no Yubiwa, for the record! And they're quick to pick up the new Matsumoto anime releases - though I think that "Albator 78" and "Albator 84" are still French dub only releases...

(Amusing aside - the recent release of Endless Odyssey had multiple language tracks in French - one set with the old "Capitan Albator" era names, one with the proper names...!! Go figure...!!)

OT: Gatchaman though couldn't go far wrong - huge nostalgia factor from us 30 something BotP viewers, the ever present hum of those who kept telling us "if you think that's good you should see the original footage" factor, and a well-written, brilliantly performed and directed story that hits its marks so perfectly it almost *hurts*... ;-) Formula it may be, but when you get the basics that right you've got a classic on your hands! (Mazinger Z is another that manages to be note-perfect...)

Now if the US market ever embraces the Mazinger series, SPCH, GE999, Queen Millennia and Rose of Versailles with lovingly restored releases, there may be hope for them...
;-)

kimmiepooh

11-22-2006, 10:34 AM

I've got a question about this show. When Geneon licensed Captain Herlock, is this the same show as Captain Harlock - Arcadia of My Youth? I've seen that one, I'm just wondering if Geneon happened to mispell his name.

Vicserr

11-22-2006, 10:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
kimmiepooh said:
I've got a question about this show. When Geneon licensed Captain Herlock, is this the same show as Captain Harlock - Arcadia of My Youth? I've seen that one, I'm just wondering if Geneon happened to mispell his name.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arcadia of my Youth is a theatrical movie that tells Herlock/Harlock's origin, that's available in R1 by AnimEigo

mistressh

11-23-2006, 04:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
kimmiepooh said:
I've got a question about this show. When Geneon licensed Captain Herlock, is this the same show as Captain Harlock - Arcadia of My Youth? I've seen that one, I'm just wondering if Geneon happened to mispell his name.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a mis-spelling, just an alternate (and strangely, was the most common romanisation in Japan for a long time...). "Herlock" and "Harlock" can be pronounced exactly the same in "English" English (I despair of ever getting the uppity colonials to acknowledge that "Derby" is "Darby" not "Durby"... <g>) so it's "Harlock" every which way you say it, never "Hurlock"... Japanese always uses the phonetic spelling in katakana for foreign names - something which while applauding on the one hand, keeps sending me back to a biography of Leonardo da Vinci every five minutes whilst trying to read Matsumoto's "Leonardo da Vinci no Densetsu" trying to make out the native Italian versions rendered in katakana of place names and renaissance artists I only know from their English rendered versions...!! ;-)

However "Harlock" is a real surname and "Herlock" isn't, so go figure... (On an offtepic aside, David Harlock, ice hockey player for the Philly Farm team, the Phantoms - anyone else who remembers what the early Harlock clan used as a first name in WSNA think that this has to be such a cool hockey shirt to track down? Shame he couldn't have worn "99" just to REALLY ice the cake... ;-)

H

mistressh

11-23-2006, 05:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Vicserr said:
Arcadia of my Youth is a theatrical movie that tells Herlock/Harlock's origin, that's available in R1 by AnimEigo

[/ QUOTE ]

Well worth buying - it's possibly the most beautiful piece of animation I've ever seen (the narrative structure is a bit of a mess, but given the nature of the piece that's understandable...) Embedded within it are also two "Cockpit" stories, or versions thereof as well ("Stanley no Majou" and "Waga Seishun no Arcadia", both of which highlight ancestors of the good captain, but which on their own would be worth the price of the disk...)

This was the first Harlock anyone ever showed me, and I was hooked from the opening seconds - great classical soundtrack (Greig, Mahler, Dvorak - and the haunting "Addagio" attributed to Albinoni) superb animation, some pointed allegory, great use of resonance and foreshadowing in the story, and some kick ass space battles to finish... what's not to like??

H

aquapermanence

11-23-2006, 02:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Helen Fayle said:
However "Harlock" is a real surname and "Herlock" isn't, so go figure...

[/ QUOTE ]

Nonetheless, Matsumoto wasn't the first to use the name "Herlock" for a fictional character. Maurice LeBlanc's Lupin novels can be thanked for providing that bit of literary precedent. (link (http://www.amazon.com/Arsene-Lupin-Vs-Herlock-Sholmes/dp/1587154641))

littleharlock

11-26-2006, 03:07 AM

Speaking of the shorts, for those that haven't had the chance (and money) to go for the (rare and overpriced) Shounen Jump issue containing The Tochiro II ~ Waga Seishun no Herlock, according to Matsumoto Leiji Encyclopedia the recent 106th issue of Figure Ou contains a reprint of the short as part of the issue's (http://www.monomaga.net/wpp/shop/ProductDetail.aspx?CCD=00000001&sku=819840&CD=C0000008&WKCD=C0000023) Uchuu Kaizoku Captain Herlock special feature. Amazon.jp has it up here (http://www.amazon.co.jp/gp/product/4846526348/sr=1-2/qid=1164531740/ref=sr_1_2/250-3458400-9645850?ie=UTF8&s=books) ^_^

*At last* going to get The Tochiro II. I already spent a fortune on the Shounen Jump issue with the (admitted wonderful) The Tochiro (the first part of the short).

mistressh

11-26-2006, 05:28 AM

You have "The Tochiro"?? You luck, lucky wotsit... I managed to get a copy of The Tochiro II (cost an arm and a leg for a faded copy of the mangazine...) but can't track down the first one...

And: Why didn't you say something earlier - I scanned it in to print it off in b/w instead of fade blue - I'd have happily sent you a copy!!

H

Maxflier

11-28-2006, 01:28 PM

Has it ever been revealed in any of the Harlock related series why Emeraldas and Harlock share identical facial scars?

Darkseid

11-28-2006, 02:17 PM

In a nutshell, Matsumoto just seems to like his scars in the same place.

If you read some of the sites already mentioned in this thread, there are different versions of how the scars happened. I don't know honestly how Captain Harlock got his (or the rest of the Harlock ancestors for that matter), but there are two different happenings of how Emeraldas got her scars. How did Emeraldas get her scar in the Arcadia of My Youth movie? she is shot in the face by an Illumidas guard during a failed rescue attempt as opposed to Queen Emeraldas Vol. 4 (not released in the U.S.) How did she get her scar in the Queen Emeraldas OAV series? She gets the scar in a flashback sequence where she battles a powerful witch type to try and save Tochiro's life. The witch slashes her face with an axe..

littleharlock

11-28-2006, 02:35 PM

IIRC there are several "versions" of how Emeraldas got her facial scar. Personaly I found the story from the Queen Emeraldas manga the best.
How Emeraldas got her scar in the manga
Emeraldas got her scar during a duel. She won the duel and decided to spare her opponent's life. When she turned her back to the guy, the coward tried to attack her and managed to hurt her face. The scar this duel left, made Emeraldas realize never to show mercy on her opponents from then on
The Waga Seishun no Arcadia (Arcadia of my Youth) movie tells another version of how she got the scar (and IMO rather unspectacular/meaningless ).