Anime Lingo help please~ ^^

[PrincessLaLa]

Hi ^^ well i wasn't sure where to post this so its here^^...anyways i'm new to anime and i was hoping someone could help me with all the different genres of anime for example the difference between shoujo and shoujo ai and other different types are ^^ a simple general list would be very helpful thank you^^

[treatment]

Hi ^^ well i wasn't sure where to post this so its here^^...anyways i'm new to anime and i was hoping someone could help me with all the different genres of anime for example the difference between shoujo and shoujo ai and other different types are ^^ a simple general list would be very helpful thank you^^

Try http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/lexicon.php

[Fencedude]

Only if you agree to lay off the "^^", 'k?

Anyway...

Shonen: Manga/Anime primarily aimed at the male 8~14 demographic, common examples include Naruto, Dragonball Z, Inuyasha and One Piece

Shoujo: Manga/Anime primarily aimed at the femal 8~14 demographic, Full Moon wo Sagashite, Card Captor Sakura and Sailor Moon are good examples

Seinen: Manga/Anime aimed at older boys and young men, Berserk, Hellsing and Monster all fall into this category

Josei: the female version of Seinen, examples of this include Gokusen, Honey and Clover and Nodame Cantabile

Shonen-ai: Litterally "Boy's Love", a general term for a work that contains overt male/male relationships, generally non pornographic

Shoujo-ai: "Girl's Love", works that have overt female/female relationships.

Yaoi: A catchall term for works with explicit male/male sex, generally refers only to works taht could be considered pornographic.

Yuri: Female version of Yaoi, almost exclusively used with pornographic material.

[PrincessLaLa]

Thank you >,<

[Dagger]

Shonen-ai: Litterally "Boy's Love", a general term for a work that contains overt male/male relationships, generally non pornographic

Shoujo-ai: "Girl's Love", works that have overt female/female relationships.

Yaoi: A catchall term for works with explicit male/male sex, generally refers only to works taht could be considered pornographic.

Yuri: Female version of Yaoi, almost exclusively used with pornographic material.

It should also be noted that no two people on the planet seem capable of agreeing on the proper uses & precise shades of meaning of these terms. ;)

(OP: You might also see the term "BL"/boys' love running around. That's an umbrella phrase for pretty much anything that could also be called shounen-ai or yaoi.)

[Ty]

Card Captor Sakura is shoujo in your opinion? Then again I suppose the term is moot these days anyway since they're all for boys too in one way or another.

[JackProton]

Shonen: Manga/Anime primarily aimed at the male 8~14 demographic, common examples include Naruto, Dragonball Z, Inuyasha and One Piece

Inu Yasha, for example, actually includes quite a few common shoujo elements. In practice, anime often straddles subgenres for greater appeal. Clamp, a female production company, often mixes shoujo and shonen elements in this fashion appealing to male and female viewers alike but for different reasons.

[PhilipReuben]

Card Captor Sakura is shoujo in your opinion?

As open to interpretation as the definition of "shoujo" may or may not be, I'm coming up blank as to how CCS wouldn't be shoujo by anyone's definition.

I'm genuinely curious here. What makes you consider CCS potentially not!shoujo?

[Fencedude]

Card Captor Sakura is shoujo in your opinion? Then again I suppose the term is moot these days anyway since they're all for boys too in one way or another.

Everything CLAMP made before Angelic Layer is, by definition, shoujo.

[Kellory]

Card Captor Sakura is shoujo in your opinion? Then again I suppose the term is moot these days anyway since they're all for boys too in one way or another.

Everything CLAMP made before Angelic Layer is, by definition, shoujo.


So very true. And why I'm often amused by people who seem to think that X:TV is not Shoujo.

[DKL]

X-TV was like Gothic shoujo or something right?

...

Actually, I'm not even sure what Gothic means.

But yeah, Shoujo... definately.

Wow, Fence's post pretty much covers everything, I'm assuming.

[Dylonius Funk]

Card Captor Sakura is shoujo in your opinion? Then again I suppose the term is moot these days anyway since they're all for boys too in one way or another.

Everything CLAMP made before Angelic Layer is, by definition, shoujo.


I think the argument could be made that Angelic Layer could be shoujo. The battle game itself is mainly a background element/plot device. The core of the show is Misaki and her interactions and relationships with the various other characters and their relationship with her. That seems to be a core shoujo value.

[DKL]

Yeah, I remember feeling kinda in-between with Angelic Layer...

Felt like Quasi-Shonen or something...

But let's just say Shonen anyway... I mean, it has the fighting tournaments and everything.

Wait, when did Miyuki-Chan come out?

[PhilipReuben]

For the Angelic Layer manga, at least, I don't think there's any doubt that it's shounen. Almost nothing happens except for the battles, and it was published in a magazine called Shounen Ace.

The anime adds a lot more character development, but I'd argue that it still ticks a lot of the "shounen sports anime" boxes, with the tournament as the central thrust of the show. What's weird is that the anime's arguable "girliness" can't really be blamed on its CLAMP origins, since the anime is so different to the manga...

[DKL]

Oh yeah... I remember hearing that the anime was real different from the manga...

Jumped to conclusions there...

Anywho... for a shonen title, it was definately pretty girly (oh, and awesome).

[Dylonius Funk]

For the Angelic Layer manga, at least, I don't think there's any doubt that it's shounen. Almost nothing happens except for the battles, and it was published in a magazine called Shounen Ace.

The anime adds a lot more character development, but I'd argue that it still ticks a lot of the "shounen sports anime" boxes, with the tournament as the central thrust of the show. What's weird is that the anime's arguable "girliness" can't really be blamed on its CLAMP origins, since the anime is so different to the manga...

I can't comment on the manga since i couldn't get past the first volume. I just didn't like the art style. But for the anime i will say that while the tourney is key, it isn't the only thing going on. I remember that in the final episodes
the tourney stops while Shoko and Misaki reunite. Man i want this series again now

[PhilipReuben]

But for the anime i will say that while the tourney is key, it isn't the only thing going on. I remember that in the final episodes
the tourney stops while Shoko and Misaki reunite. Man i want this series again now

Yes, but
they reunite because of the tournament. I don't think that's inconsistent with what I said: The tournament is what drives the story.

Of course, the same could be said about, say, the card capturing antics in CCS *shrug*

[DKL]

While the thing in Angelic Layer was pretty okay, it totally didn't stack up against what Princess Nine did...

...

So, wait... Princess Nine is Shoujo, right?

[DocWatson]

Card Captor Sakura is shoujo in your opinion? Then again I suppose the term is moot these days anyway since they're all for boys too in one way or another.

Everything CLAMP made before Angelic Layer is, by definition, shoujo.
Splitting hairs, the definition of shoujo/shounen, et cetera is "In what magazine was it published, and what is that magazine's demographic?" If a series was not first a manga, then it becomes more difficult.

(In addition to other resources, I recommend PRISMS: The Ultimate Manga Guide (http://users.skynet.be/mangaguide/index.html) for help in settling these sorts of disputes.)

For the original poster: other anime- and manga related glossaries and dictionaries:

• The 100 Most Essential Words In Anime (http://www.yale.edu/anime/glossary.html)
• Aestheticism's Yaoi/Slash Glossary (http://www.aestheticism.com/visitors/editor/aestheticism.htm)
• The Anime Encyclopaedia (http://www.abcb.com/ency/index.htm) at The Animé Café
• BLACK MOON - Anime & Manga Glossary (http://www.theblackmoon.com/Gloss/agloss.html)
• The Fanfiction Glossary (http://www.subreality.com/glossary.htm)
• The Jargon of Doujinshi (http://www.tc.umn.edu/~kane0034/doujin/jargon.htm)
• Online dictionary of manga and video games in Japan (http://www.webdico.com/dico/mngtxtg.html)
• Shinigami's Anime Glossary (http://web.archive.org/web/20010819104611/http://www.shinigami.org/gloss.html) (via the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine)
• The Usenet Manga Glossary ver. 1.3 beta build 5 (http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.anime.misc/msg/5d27267af9378103?hl=en&)
• Just What Is An "Otaku" Anyway? A Guide To Useful Japanese Terms Found In Anime. (http://celesstar.osiriscomm.com/anime/otaku.html)

Specific and specialty terms:

• 'H' does not mean 'hentai' (http://home.attbi.com/~kagamix2/H_does_not_mean_hentai/)
• Anime Job Titles (http://www.janscottfrazier.com/articles/jobs/index.htm) by Jan Scott-Frasier
• The Making of Animation (http://www.sunrise-inc.co.jp/international/sp02/index.html) at Sunrise
• Introduction of anime production (http://www.aicanime.com/introanime/index.html) at AIC's English site
• Appendix:Japanese film credit terms (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Japanese_film_credit_terms) at Wiktionary

Does anyone recommend any others?

Oh, and "Ask John?" (http://animenation.net/news/askjohn.php) (not me! ^_^ ) for any questions we might not be able to answer here. Plus Gilles' Service to Fans Page (http://www.koyagi.com/index.html), and his book Anime Essentials: Everything a Fan Needs to Know (http://www.rightstuf.com/aod/1880656531). More than you asked for, but...

[DocWatson]

While the thing in Angelic Layer was pretty okay, it totally didn't stack up against what Princess Nine did...

...

So, wait... Princess Nine is Shoujo, right?
According to the first (http://www.rightstuf.com/aod/at9327) and second soundtrack (http://www.rightstuf.com/aod/at9328)s' (which are excellent, BTW) inserts, it is based on an idea by Yasuhito Yamaki, which was turned into a novel (Meio gijuku joshi-kou yakyuu-bu) by Kensei Date, which was in turn made into the anime. Under what imprint the book was published (and at what demographic that imprint is aimed) I do not know.

[Yuriko]

Card Captor Sakura is shoujo in your opinion? Then again I suppose the term is moot these days anyway since they're all for boys too in one way or another.

Everything CLAMP made before Angelic Layer is, by definition, shoujo.


I think the argument could be made that Angelic Layer could be shoujo. The battle game itself is mainly a background element/plot device. The core of the show is Misaki and her interactions and relationships with the various other characters and their relationship with her. That seems to be a core shoujo value.

Plenty of shounen out there with relationships and/or young girls O.O I think it's erroneous to judge purely on subject matter. Like all the people who think AMG or Love Hina is shoujo (say what?) when compared to most shoujo they have a totally different flavour despite being about similar issues. Vaguely.

I guess I just hate being dismissed as a gender with a pathological love of cutesy relationship junk.

I don't see why everything with a human aspect is automatically shoujo.

For the record I like CLAMP usually, especially Miyuki-chan and X, and hated Angelic Layer. Though I liked Chobits so...

~Y

[Fencedude]

You realize we've probably now hopelessly confused the poor girl.

[MrNice]

You realize we've probably now hopelessly confused the poor girl.Heh, any thread which amounts to defining shoujo/shonen always ends up like this if not far more heated ;).

With regards to Shonen with fighting/sport tournaments, in virtually all good shonen with this premise the tournament is merely a means to an end anyway (heck, the "good" guys don't even always win).

[Skywise]

Oh, and "Ask John?" (http://animenation.net/news/askjohn.php) (not me! ^_^ ) for any questions we might not be able to answer here.

Actually I think you're far more likely to get a correct and appropriate answer here than anything you send in to Ask John. If none of us can't answer I doubt he'll be any better - probably worse even.

[HitokiriShadow]

Shonen-ai: Litterally "Boy's Love", a general term for a work that contains overt male/male relationships, generally non pornographic

Shoujo-ai: "Girl's Love", works that have overt female/female relationships.

Yaoi: A catchall term for works with explicit male/male sex, generally refers only to works taht could be considered pornographic.

Yuri: Female version of Yaoi, almost exclusively used with pornographic material.

It should also be noted that no two people on the planet seem capable of agreeing on the proper uses & precise shades of meaning of these terms. ;)

(OP: You might also see the term "BL"/boys' love running around. That's an umbrella phrase for pretty much anything that could also be called shounen-ai or yaoi.)

Indeed, particularly for yaoi/BL/shonen-ai. People don't all agree on the distinction between yuri and shoujo-ai, but its pretty straight forward. But y/bl/sa is quite convoluted. Some people use one use one term for all of it. Some people use yaoi for explicit works and shonen-ai for the non-explicit works, others use shonen-ai or BL to separate underage yaoi from regular yaoi. And then, apparently, one of the terms can refer to original works while another refers to fanworks. I've given up trying to figure out what is what and lump it all into yaoi (which is what U.S. publishers seem to do as well).

[Ty]

Card Captor Sakura is shoujo in your opinion? Then again I suppose the term is moot these days anyway since they're all for boys too in one way or another.

Everything CLAMP made before Angelic Layer is, by definition, shoujo.


So very true. And why I'm often amused by people who seem to think that X:TV is not Shoujo.

X is easy to mark as shoujo considering the content. Magical girl shows like CCS are always at least partly for boys though so I don't buy it on that one.

[relentlessflame]

Magical girl shows like CCS are always at least partly for boys though so I don't buy it on that one.
I think that was more of an unintended by-product at first. As far as I know, it wasn't really until Nanoha that the idea of "magical girl shows for guys" (or in this case, otaku) was popularized and brought into the relative mainstream. Any show in any genre can have fans outside its target demographic, of course, but the only purpose of the shounen / seinen / shoujo / josei label is to identify the primary audience to whom it was written to appeal to. This is why the magazine imprint is usually used as a guide. A show or manga could theoretically be targeted to one demographic, but end up being even more popular in another demographic entirely, but that wouldn't affect the label.

[treatment]

Card Captor Sakura is shoujo in your opinion? Then again I suppose the term is moot these days anyway since they're all for boys too in one way or another.

Everything CLAMP made before Angelic Layer is, by definition, shoujo.


So very true. And why I'm often amused by people who seem to think that X:TV is not Shoujo.

X is easy to mark as shoujo considering the content. Magical girl shows like CCS are always at least partly for boys though so I don't buy it on that one.

Unless it's actually a hentai show or something robotic like Cutey Honey, magical girl shows are always shoujo.

A certain segment of the guys just have fetishes for magical girl shows, imo.

[HitokiriShadow]

I can't think of any magical girl series (excluding hentai or parody like Puni Puni Poemi) targeted at guys other than Nanoha. Sailor Moon, Pretty Cure, Tokyo Mew Mew, Wedding Peach, CCS, the list goes on... all aimed at girls. Sailor Moon probably had more appeal to guys (in the U.S. at least) than the average magical girl show, but it was still aimed at girls.

CCS is, unquestionably, aimed at girls.

[treatment]

Sailor Moon probably had more appeal to guys (in the U.S. at least) than the average magical girl show, but it was still aimed at girls.



You know, fwiw, my nieces love both anime and live-action versions of SM.

My nephews loudly hated the anime-version, but totally likes the live-action version. Especially Dark Sailor Mercury.

I wonder why. :sd: :sigh:

[The Pirate Queen]

My nephews loudly hated the anime-version, but totally likes the live-action version. Especially Dark Sailor Mercury.

I wonder why. :sd: :sigh:


Because Dark Mercury is both evil and hot. What's not to love?

[Orihara_Kaoru]

Card Captor Sakura is shoujo in your opinion?

It really has nothing to do with opinion. Cardcaptor Sakura ran in Nakayoshi, a shoujo manga magazine. So it's shoujo, end of story.

[something]

Card Captor Sakura is shoujo in your opinion?
I'd say it's as clear cut a case of 'shoujo' as can exist, no matter how broadly or specifically you apply the term. It's pretty much the absolute last series I'd bring up when challenging shounen/shoujo concepts.

[Fencedude]

[
Magical girl shows like CCS are always at least partly for boys though so I don't buy it on that one.

What in the world ever gave you THAT idea?

[Ty]

Magical girl shows like CCS are always at least partly for boys though so I don't buy it on that one.
I think that was more of an unintended by-product at first. As far as I know, it wasn't really until Nanoha that the idea of "magical girl shows for guys" (or in this case, otaku) was popularized and brought into the relative mainstream. Any show in any genre can have fans outside its target demographic, of course, but the only purpose of the shounen / seinen / shoujo / josei label is to identify the primary audience to whom it was written to appeal to. This is why the magazine imprint is usually used as a guide. A show or manga could theoretically be targeted to one demographic, but end up being even more popular in another demographic entirely, but that wouldn't affect the label.
I don't think Nanoha is a magical girl show at all actually. It may have started out as one but it didn't walk that path for long.

It's pretty academic and they're just labels, but calling something shoujo tends to turn off some people who might have otherwise have checked it out. That's really my only beef with it, considering how many shows that are called shoujo that are probably getting more male viewers than female.

[Ty]

[
Magical girl shows like CCS are always at least partly for boys though so I don't buy it on that one.

What in the world ever gave you THAT idea?

The idea that it wasn't made exclusively with girls viewing in mind? Simple: because it's a product and it's purpose is to make money. Limiting the audience is counter productive. All I'm saying is that something that's enjoyed by so many male viewers can't logically be called a girls only show. Makes perfect sense to me. I'm not challenging the world here.

[something]

It's pretty academic and they're just labels, but calling something shoujo tends to turn off some people who might have otherwise have checked it out.
Meh, not a fan of appeasing ignorance, personally. And CCS is pretty safe in that regard anyway, since the license is expiring/expired and you won't be able to easily purchase it for much longer anyways.

[Ty]

It's pretty academic and they're just labels, but calling something shoujo tends to turn off some people who might have otherwise have checked it out.
Meh, not a fan of appeasing ignorance, personally. And CCS is pretty safe in that regard anyway, since the license is expiring/expired and you won't be able to easily purchase it for much longer anyways.
I wasn't referring specifically to CCS, it's just the example we all seem to be running with. It probably was not the best one to pick either it seems.

[Fencedude]

The idea that it wasn't made exclusively with girls viewing in mind? Simple: because it's a product and it's purpose is to make money. Limiting the audience is counter productive. All I'm saying is that something that's enjoyed by so many male viewers can't logically be called a girls only show. Makes perfect sense to me. I'm not challenging the world here.

...you have the amazing ability to totally not grasp the point here.

And yes, the increase in male viewership HAS most likely affected how at least some Magical Girl shows are made, take a look at Pretty Cure, which is directed by the guy who directed most of Dragonball Z. And it shows.

But CCS? No way, male audience probably never even entered their thoughts with that one.

[relentlessflame]

It's pretty academic and they're just labels, but calling something shoujo tends to turn off some people who might have otherwise have checked it out. That's really my only beef with it, considering how many shows that are called shoujo that are probably getting more male viewers than female.
Well, if people aren't secure enough to read manga or watch anime outside of their "box" (target demographic), then I wonder what drew them to something as "outside the box" as anime/manga in the first place. :sd: I don't think a label is going to solve close-mindedness.

(It should also be pointed out that the labels are based on the target demographics in Japan, which may be to totally different than the target audience in the U.S. and elsewhere in the world. Past-midnight otaku shows have been marketed as little girl shows, and kid/family shows have been marketed as for "young adults". So, it's really meaningless in that sense.)

[Skywise]

Shounen/shoujo are both Japanese terminology for the way they market things there, so I don't see what the problem is. The way they do it there is that there's very clear gender and age group segregations as far as marketing goes, but there's hardly any genre segregation. In manga magazines you'll have a huge variety in the genres included. In the US and most of the west however anime and manga are targeted based on genre instead of age/gender.

[DrMM]

[
Magical girl shows like CCS are always at least partly for boys though so I don't buy it on that one.

What in the world ever gave you THAT idea?


Just because some boys enjoy magical girl shows doesn't mean they were the initial target audience of a series. And in both Japan and the U.S., it's actually pretty rare. AoD is not exactly the most reliable indicator of mainstream viewing habits. If it was, series like Fighting Spirit and SuperGals and manga like Firefighter Daigo and Basara would be huge hits.

[bobma]

Not that you hadn't already enough opinions flung your way, but I'll throw in my as well for good measure. If you want to be on the safe side, go with DocWatson's definition. If it's a manga or based on a manga, find out in what magazine it ran and its target demographic and you'll automatically get the "correct" genre classification from a japanese marketing view.

Naruto, Bleach and One Piece for instance run in Shounen Jump so that's what they are, shounen series. Video Girl Ai, Pretty Face, I''s were all about love triangles and relationships, but because they ran in Shounen Jump, they're shounen, too. Berserk is serialized in Young Animal, a seinen magazine, therefore it's seinen. So is Emma BTW, which is also serialized in a seinen magazine. CCS was in a shoujo magazine, BAM, it's shoujo. That doesn't mean that a certain series can't be attractive to other demographics as well though. Bleach and Naruto for instance a primarily aimed at young boys, but god knows those manga contain plenty of fanbait to get girls interested in it as well. Latest example of this is this week's Naruto chapter (as the saying goes, once you see it, you can't unsee it. ;) ).

So, while you can make a good educated guess by solely looking at the content, your best bet if you want to argue your position is to look at the magazine it was in as well. As for anime original productions (without manga material that it's based on) there's much more room for debate, since there isn't such a surefire way to categorize it.

[Ty]

Not that you hadn't already enough opinions flung your way, but I'll throw in my as well for good measure. If you want to be on the safe side, go with DocWatson's definition. If it's a manga or based on a manga, find out in what magazine it ran and its target demographic and you'll automatically get the "correct" genre classification from a japanese marketing view.

Naruto, Bleach and One Piece for instance run in Shounen Jump so that's what they are, shounen series. Video Girl Ai, Pretty Face, I''s were all about love triangles and relationships, but because they ran in Shounen Jump, they're shounen, too. Berserk is serialized in Young Animal, a seinen magazine, therefore it's seinen. So is Emma BTW, which is also serialized in a seinen magazine. CCS was in a shoujo magazine, BAM, it's shoujo. That doesn't mean that a certain series can't be attractive to other demographics as well though. Bleach and Naruto for instance a primarily aimed at young boys, but god knows those manga contain plenty of fanbait to get girls interested in it as well. Latest example of this is this week's Naruto chapter (as the saying goes, once you see it, you can't unsee it. ;) ).

So, while you can make a good educated guess by solely looking at the content, your best bet if you want to argue your position is to look at the magazine it was in as well. As for anime original productions (without manga material that it's based on) there's much more room for debate, since there isn't such a surefire way to categorize it.
I'm glad you threw yours in because it's helpful and polite. I'm not a manga reader personally so I'm sort of missing that intial link, but what you say does make perfect sense. :) All I was really saying is that I personally don't think there is such a thing as a "true" girls only show anymore outside of shows meant purely for little kids, hence the term shoujo is partially meaningless now. But seeing as how everybody disagrees I can only conclude that I am indeed "missing the point" as Fence says.

[Ty]

...you have the amazing ability to totally not grasp the point here.
It is a known character flaw of mine. You're telling me that challenging CCS's genre classification is retarded and I get that. I'm trying to express an opinion that's perhaps not totally related to the original subject and for that reason I'm going to drop it.

[Suwako Moriya]

Shounen/shoujo are both Japanese terminology for the way they market things there, so I don't see what the problem is.

I've solved any potential problem myself by completely giving up on guessing what is shoujo and what is shounen. Especially after the repeated sessions of poster A claiming "Y" is his/her favorite shoujo and poster B revealing it ran in a shounen magazine.

Which is the funny thing here. If the magazine it runs is enough to determine its classification. Then does that mean Dragon Ball Z would have been Shoujo had run in in the proper magazine? Assume absolutely no changes to it at all. If so I'm not sure what to think.

Either way I have my own classifications. Stuff I like, stuff I don't care, stuff I find well let's say average, and stuff I haven't seen (yet). Four awesome categories.

[DocWatson]

Shounen/shoujo are both Japanese terminology for the way they market things there, so I don't see what the problem is.

I've solved any potential problem myself by completely giving up on guessing what is shoujo and what is shounen. Especially after the repeated sessions of poster A claiming "Y" is his/her favorite shoujo and poster B revealing it ran in a shounen magazine.

Which is the funny thing here. If the magazine it runs is enough to determine its classification. Then does that mean Dragon Ball Z would have been Shoujo had run in in the proper magazine? Assume absolutely no changes to it at all.
That's correct. For other instances, Banana Fish (http://users.skynet.be/mangaguide/au2124.html#E11376) is shoujo, because it was serialized in Bessatsu Shoujo Comic (p. 206, Frederik L. Schodt, Dreamland Japan), while Chimera (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2108) is josei because the manga (http://users.skynet.be/mangaguide/au1950.html) was serialized in Bamboo Comics (surprisingly, so was Shadow Skill (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/manga.php?id=2470)).

[DocWatson]

Unless it's actually a hentai show or something robotic like Cutey Honey, magical girl shows are always shoujo.
Of course, that exception is perhaps larger than you might think <EG>:

• Angel Blade (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2601)
• Battle Team Lakers EX (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2076)
• Jiburiru -The Devil Angel- (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6180)
• Marine A Go-Go (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6454)
• Septem Charm: Magical Kanan (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=3989)
• Sexy Magical Girl (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=6914)
• Sexy Sailor Soldiers (AKA Nami SOS!)
• Sex Warrior Pudding (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2069)
• Venus 5 (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=2647)
Oh, and Otaku no Video's Misty May (who is neither robotic nor pornographic, but is arguably shounen).

[bobma]

Which is the funny thing here. If the magazine it runs is enough to determine its classification. Then does that mean Dragon Ball Z would have been Shoujo had run in in the proper magazine? Assume absolutely no changes to it at all. If so I'm not sure what to think.

I don't speak with the last authority on this and it's so to speak my personal view I have formed over the years, but as queer as it sounds, yes, if DB ran in a shoujo magazine it would be classified as shoujo in japan. :sd: Though given Dragonball's content, it wouldn't have been very likely to run in a shoujo magazine. A point I forgot to stress in my previous post is, that the magazine has a specific primary target audience in mind, which in turn shapes what series get published in it and, to a certain degree, even influences the series' content. The editors assigned to artists for instance have a large say in what can, cannot or should preferably be displayed in a series for a given magazine. Different shounen magazines can even have different standarts which confuses things further.

A series in a seinen magazine for instance can without problems show T&A without the need to strategically place hair over certain parts or do "nipple amputations" like Akamatsu does in Negima (though in the case of Negima I think I heard from unconfirmed sources that he could have drawn nipples if he wanted to in later parts of the manga, as the mag changed its general policy on this, or maybe I remember it wrong).

So if Dragonball in its initial stages had indeed ended up in a shoujo mag, chances would have been good that the series wouldn't have turned out like it has now, since at the time of its first publication there wouldn't have existed "Dragonball as we know it", yet. If I had to venture a guess I think more emphasis would have been made on ChichixSonGoku and how they get together and maybe Picolo would have had more interest in SonGoku on an emotional level than as a fighting rival. ;) It also depends of course on how big a name the manga artist, in this case Toriyama, has (= how big is his say when his and the editor's views collide) and how much he's willing to compromise his original vision just to get published in a shoujo mag. OTOH who knows how DB might have turned out if it had run in a seinen magazine?

[Takato]

I've solved any potential problem myself by completely giving up on guessing what is shoujo and what is shounen. Especially after the repeated sessions of poster A claiming "Y" is his/her favorite shoujo and poster B revealing it ran in a shounen magazine.It gets even more confusing when you try to figure out which shows are yaoi and which ones aren't. I'm still confused as to whether Loveless is shounen-ai or if it's shoujo. I keep hearing many fans claim that it's a shoujo series but then Tokyopop makes things confusing by marketing the manga to a shounen-ai audience.

[The Pirate Queen]

I've solved any potential problem myself by completely giving up on guessing what is shoujo and what is shounen. Especially after the repeated sessions of poster A claiming "Y" is his/her favorite shoujo and poster B revealing it ran in a shounen magazine.It gets even more confusing when you try to figure out which shows are yaoi and which ones aren't. I'm still confused as to whether Loveless is shounen-ai or if it's shoujo. I keep hearing many fans claim that it's a shoujo series but then Tokyopop makes things confusing by marketing the manga to a shounen-ai audience.


Shoujo and shounen-ai aren't mutually exclusive - a series can be both. Which should hopefully clear up any confusion there.

"Shounen-ai" is a description, much like "fantasy" or "romantic comedy." A series can have more than one classification, no matter what audience it's aimed at.

[Takato]

I know that a series can be both shounen-ai and shoujo. What I mean is that there are some fans that claim that Loveless is not shounen-ai and is only shoujo because they think that Ritsuka's and Soubi's relationship isn't the central focus of the story.

[Vicserr]

My nephews loudly hated the anime-version, but totally likes the live-action version. Especially Dark Sailor Mercury.

I wonder why. :sd: :sigh:


Because Dark Mercury is both evil and hot. What's not to love?


Also, that there's a flesh and blood girl under that sailor senshi uniform ;)

[MrNice]

Also, that there's a flesh and blood girl under that sailor senshi uniform ;)And also the real physics of wearing skirts that short ;) .

[The Pirate Queen]

I know that a series can be both shounen-ai and shoujo. What I mean is that there are some fans that claim that Loveless is not shounen-ai and is only shoujo because they think that Ritsuka's and Soubi's relationship isn't the central focus of the story.

That's just goofy. The shounen-ai elements don't have to be a focus of the story for it to be considered shounen-ai.

[Fencedude]

I know that a series can be both shounen-ai and shoujo. What I mean is that there are some fans that claim that Loveless is not shounen-ai and is only shoujo because they think that Ritsuka's and Soubi's relationship isn't the central focus of the story.

Well then those people are idiots.

[Yuriko]

I lot of shoujo has shounen ai elements, I just refer to series like that as being both. Same for shoujo/josei and shounen with shoujo ai aspects - tons of it out there.

~Y

[dunno001]

I know that a series can be both shounen-ai and shoujo. What I mean is that there are some fans that claim that Loveless is not shounen-ai and is only shoujo because they think that Ritsuka's and Soubi's relationship isn't the central focus of the story.

That's just goofy. The shounen-ai elements don't have to be a focus of the story for it to be considered shounen-ai.

There's still quite a bit of disagreement on that, actually. I would not class Loveless as BL just because that relationship doesn't drive the story in any way. I'm not going to say that there aren't undertones, but if any undertone made something qualify for BL, then there would be a lot more in that category. Other people have used the definition on if there's clear signals of a possible relationship, required for only a subplot, etc. Or it may just be considered to contain BL, like Loveless does, and TP is marketing it to that audience because of the speed that part of the market is growing at. But I can't say there's a concrete definition on what makes a story BL.

[Dagger]

I know that a series can be both shounen-ai and shoujo. What I mean is that there are some fans that claim that Loveless is not shounen-ai and is only shoujo because they think that Ritsuka's and Soubi's relationship isn't the central focus of the story.

That's just goofy. The shounen-ai elements don't have to be a focus of the story for it to be considered shounen-ai.

There's still quite a bit of disagreement on that, actually. I would not class Loveless as BL just because that relationship doesn't drive the story in any way.
O.O I don't know how you could seriously say that, heh. Granted, it's not a clear-cut, down to earth romantic fable or anything, but their relationship--whatever form it takes--lies at the heart of the story. If nothing else, the place at which the anime chose to leave off is very much indicative of this.

[ayumu]

But I can't say there's a concrete definition on what makes a story BL.
I consider BL like shounen and shoujo; it's BL if it ran in a BL magazine. And Zero-Sum isn't a BL magazine, so I'd say no, Loveless isn't BL.

[something]

But I can't say there's a concrete definition on what makes a story BL.
I consider BL like shounen and shoujo; it's BL if it ran in a BL magazine. And Zero-Sum isn't a BL magazine, so I'd say no, Loveless isn't BL.
Let's not get overly obsessed about this 'magazine is be all and end all' stuff. At what point do you judge a show by actually watching it as opposed to finding a magazine for every type of show. Are there "drama" magazines and "comedy" magazines and "mecha" magazines and "bishoujo harem" magazines?

If you're describing a show based on its content (which can certainly include prominent and important male-male relationships no matter what magazine it ran in), then that's different from looking at its target demographic and using that as inviolable truth.

[HitokiriShadow]

like Akamatsu does in Negima (though in the case of Negima I think I heard from unconfirmed sources that he could have drawn nipples if he wanted to in later parts of the manga, as the mag changed its general policy on this, or maybe I remember it wrong).


This is the magazine Negima runs in. (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/manga.php?id=6457)

Unless there are two different versions of the magazine with different standards and ANN just doesn't distinguish between the two (entirely possible; the Shonen Jump (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/manga.php?id=1363) list includes titles from both their weekly and monthly magazine but ANN doesn't distinguish the two), then Akamatsu should be able to do it as Suzuka runs in the same magazine according to ANN. But considering the Shonen Jump issue, it is entirely possible Negima runs in one that doesn't allow nudity and Suzuka runs in one that does. Even if the magazine doesn't allow it, its possible he just doesn't want to as well.

[Skywise]

As for anime original productions (without manga material that it's based on) there's much more room for debate, since there isn't such a surefire way to categorize it.

What you do with original anime productions is that you look at the timeslot and the core demographic audience watching it. Those figures get published in some magazines. If there's an accompanying manga that also helps provided they stick to the same story and characterization. There's some weird examples where they don't, like Escaflowne with both shounen and shoujo manga, and the same thing for Evangelion. Those are more the exception than the rule however.

[ayumu]

If you're describing a show based on its content (which can certainly include prominent and important male-male relationships no matter what magazine it ran in), then that's different from looking at its target demographic and using that as inviolable truth.
But the thing is, there IS a difference in content between series that run in BL magazines and series that run in shoujo magazines but have m/m relationships. To me, it's like the difference between Shoujo Series X and Seinen Series Y (that everybody and his brother looks at and goes, "That's not shoujo? But it's so girly!"). They are just not the same at all.

[PhilipReuben]

Are there "drama" magazines and "comedy" magazines and "mecha" magazines and "bishoujo harem" magazines?

No, there are none of the above. However, there are BL magazines. That's the key difference.