Woes of the Wiiless

[Chloe]

Every time I come to this section of the forums it just pisses me off, seeing those "Wii friends codes" threads stickied up top, and suchlike. :grr: Yes, so far I have been completely unable to get my hands on one...still. I can't drive a car, and my attempts to get one online have been pretty much abject failures so far....maybe I'm just lucky. :P

Granted, I am limiting myself to the larger/more trusted type sites, but the only ones I've seen available were the humungous Wii pack that Walmart has for like $600. That's a bit more then I a really willing to go for in one shot. Back when the Wii was released some people were saying wait until March. Well, it's already March, almost over in fact, and it's starting to really frustrate me. The EB/Gamestops near me are a living joke, so far as getting a Wii is concerned, and the local Walmart gets like 12 a week, which are ALWAYS gone when I get there.

Am I just having bad luck? Is Nintendo still not able to meet the initial demand? How long am I going to be waiting on this? :sd: I'm beginning to see why people would wait on line all night for a chance at one of these now. I've never even been interested in a game console anywhere near launch before; is this normal??? :(

Thank god I still have my Gamecube to lean on, or I would probably be psychotic by now.

[Lumberjack]

According to this thread (http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=495553) at dvdtalk (and sorry if posting external links is frowned upon), Circuit City is supposed to have them in stock Sunday morning. Last time it was advertised, I got to the store about 10 minutes before it opened and got one.

[ADC]

Given that the Wii has sold a shade over 6 million units in its four months of release (source (http://www.vgcharts.org/ngwars.php)), it may yet be difficult to track down. Most of the stores around here are still very low on inventory, sold out more often than not. So, um, good luck with that. ;)

[Chacranajxy]

Trust me, you're not missing out on much.

[KrisGranholm]

Trust me, you're not missing out on much.

I'd beg to differ. While the Wii may not have the main stream game hits other platforms are sporting yet, it certainly has its standouts. Particuarlly games that use the Wiimote/Nunchuck to good use. In particular I'd highlight Wii Sports (the bowling and tennis are particuraly addicting), Trauma Center, Rayman's Raving Rabbids, WarioWare: Smooth Moves, Excite Truck and The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess are all compelling games that couldn't be done the same justice on other platforms.

I was a sceptic at first about the Wii control scheme. That was untill I actually played it. It can be such an intutive method of playing games I wonder why no one came up with it before.

As it is everyone I've intorduced the Wii to (mainly using Wii Sports since its so accessible) had been impressed with it (both gamers and non-gamers alike).

[Chacranajxy]

Trust me, you're not missing out on much.

I'd beg to differ. While the Wii may not have the main stream game hits other platforms are sporting yet, it certainly has its standouts. Particuarlly games that use the Wiimote/Nunchuck to good use. In particular I'd highlight Wii Sports (the bowling and tennis are particuraly addicting), Trauma Center, Rayman's Raving Rabbids, WarioWare: Smooth Moves, Excite Truck and The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess are all compelling games that couldn't be done the same justice on other platforms.

I was a sceptic at first about the Wii control scheme. That was untill I actually played it. It can be such an intutive method of playing games I wonder why no one came up with it before.

As it is everyone I've intorduced the Wii to (mainly using Wii Sports since its so accessible) had been impressed with it (both gamers and non-gamers alike).

Well, Zelda clearly could've been done on another system as could Trauma Center... mainly since those games showed up on other systems. But seriously, 90% of what the Wii has right now is shitty mini-game collections and games that use the controller as nothing more than a useless gimmick. The only really innovative stuff would be something like Wii Sports, but unfortunately, the game has no depth whatsoever and is simply far too simplistic to serve as any justification for a $250 purchase.

[quenelf]

He said 'done justice', not 'done'. I agree that Zelda is a sketchy example (though I definitely think the control is better on Wii) but Trauma Center does make use of a few Wii-specific controls that weren't available on the DS. Even if it didn't, 'could only really work on Wii or DS' is still a pretty good sign.

As for 90% of the games being crap that's absolutely right but who cares? You don't have to buy the crap ones; get one or two minigame collections then move on. I've only got Zelda so far, which has lasted me nearly four weeks of quite obsessive playing (by any normal standards... not by hardcore gamer standards, where 15 hours a week makes you look like a lightweight). On its own that's definitely worth the £200 I paid. The other games out at present are not nearly as deep but I don't want epics all the time... I'm thinking of Elebits next, then maybe the Godfather game (which by all reports is good as long as you haven't already played it on other platforms). I'll drop down to playing a more reasonable amount of time, so that's definitely got gaming covered until May at least.

There are nine games that are on average regarded as decent (http://www.metacritic.com/games/wii/scores/), which is plenty. No doubt more will come out, especially toward the end of the year.

And to the original poster - yes, I got my Wii online, imported to UK from Canada no less, at the end of last month; although the store I used has indicated they're not expecting to receive new stock for a bit. It was a forced bundle but with only Zelda which obviously everyone was getting anyhow. I think the price may have been a bit over retail but not hugely.

--quen

[Johnny]

Trust me, you're not missing out on much.

Chacrana takes the hard route and gives it to you straight but, while I love my Wii's, there is a lack of great games at the minute, and this is coming from someone who will play almost anything.

It's just the initial teething period though. The DS was exactly the same (Mario 64, Ridge Racer and umm not a lot else until Nintendogs) but look at how many great games it has now.
Of course, with a console, things are different than with a handheld and people want a bit more bang for their buck.

The games, US and Japanese, that I can say I really enjoyed on the Wii right now are:

Trauma Centre
Red Steel
Zelda Twilight Princess
Necro-Nesia
Naruto GNT EX
Cooking Mama
Elebits
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Kororinpa
and a couple others I can't remember right now.

Bear in mind that a lot of that stuff is very subjective in terms of whether it qualifies as great or not.

Weighing up the PS3 and Wii (not counting 360 as it's been out much longer), I'd say the PS3 has more essential games (Resistance, Motorstorm, Ridge 7, Virtua Fighter 5, Virtua Tennis 3 vs Trauma Centre, Zelda, Sonic) but obviously not everyone wants to spend the money on a PS3/is capable of ratinal thinking and not just bandwagon-jumping.

But yeah, I've had my Wii's since launch and have had a great time with them and there isn't one of my 17 games I'd say is a waste of time (the Japanese launch was extremely weak but even those filler/party games are enjoyable to a certain degree).

[indigo0086]

I wish blockbuster would rent it so I can play zelda and be done with it.

[NemutaiKun]

The only time I've ever seen a Wii in stock was when I bought it back in late November -- just browsing the Electronics dept at Walmart while waiting for my wife one morning. They wheeled out 2 on a cart, and I immediately grabbed one.

For me it was a no-brainer -- I never got a gamecube, and for only $250 I got to try out the new controller + buy all those gamecube games I'd missed playing...

[ZhenJi]

Every time I come to this section of the forums it just pisses me off, seeing those "Wii friends codes" threads stickied up top, and suchlike. :grr: Yes, so far I have been completely unable to get my hands on one...still. I can't drive a car, and my attempts to get one online have been pretty much abject failures so far....maybe I'm just lucky. :P



I feel your pain. My bf decided the Wii does not exist. I still have faith, but I'm tired of people laughing at me when I look for Wiis at a store.

So Sunday at Circuit City??? I might have to go.

---The quest continues

[ADC]

For me it was a no-brainer -- I never got a gamecube, and for only $250 I got to try out the new controller + buy all those gamecube games I'd missed playing...
True, I've been using my Wii more as a Gamecube than anything else so far, but there's some extra value there anyway. Do you know how hard it is to find GCN component cables? And they're damn'd expensive, too. The Wii's much better off for having cheap, available component cables, which make GCN games look awesome (assuming they have 480p support).

Now, I absolutely prefer the GCN version of Twilight Princess (fewer bugs, correct hand preference), but I think it's still fair to say that Super Paper Mario will be the second killer app for Wii. Having said that, I think the Wii is still sort of on the edge of being a great purchase but hasn't quite made it yet.

[Chloe]

I do appreciate all the replies, negative ones included. What Johnny touches on and Chacranaxy seemed to miss is that everyone has their own criteria. Half of what Johnny mentions as essential I couldn't care less about, and he didn't even mention at least one title that I consider a must-have: the Wii Monkey Ball game. Now of course, he has no idea I am a Monkey Ball fanatic, but that really doesn't matter,does it? :roll:

I have 3 little children to keep entertained so those little party games become pretty important to me; I really need something they all can play at once.

I'm still looking at that WalMart bundle though. I am really interested in Red Steel, Zelda, Elebits, Trauma Centre, Cooking Mama and maybe one of those movie games for the kiddies. The other ones are for me. :blush: Plus the 30+ GCN games I have will be able to use the Wii and maybe save me some floor space. Got to consider all the little things too.

Again, thank you all for the replies. I am glad I am not the only one going through this situation.

[Johnny]

I do appreciate all the replies, negative ones included. What Johnny touches on and Chacranaxy seemed to miss is that everyone has their own criteria. Half of what Johnny mentions as essential I couldn't care less about, and he didn't even mention at least one title that I consider a must-have: the Wii Monkey Ball game. Now of course, he has no idea I am a Monkey Ball fanatic, but that really doesn't matter,does it? :roll:

I never once said that what I consider essential is what everyone else should as well so I've no idea why I'm getting this sort of reaction.
I don't give a shit how much you like Monkey Ball. If you're into it you should be looking into the Wii game regardless of what I or anyone else thinks.

I have 3 little children to keep entertained so those little party games become pretty important to me; I really need something they all can play at once.

It might have helped mentioning that in your original post.

[Zanza Hiro]

blah, i feel your pain all too well. i was one of those that lined up at 5am, in the pouring rain on launch day, only to walk away empty handed

over 4 months later, i still don't have a Wii. i have 7 Wii games on my shelf, as well a points card, classic remote and component cables all waiting for the day i finally get a wii :D

god i hope i get a console for Super Paper Mario

[Leon_Belmont]

Trust me, you're not missing out on much.

Agreed. I had and sold my Wii shortly after launch to a friend who wanted one but kept coming up short.

Of course, such is the case with pretty much all launch lineups. When I realized I'd rather be playing the GCN version of TP, that did it for me. I no longer had any interest. I have STILL yet to get around playing that though....

But yeah, in a year or so (maybe less, maybe more), it'll probably be worth having, but it'll probably be pretty easy to find and 50 bucks less too. Which is good, because it really didn't feel like a $250 machine to me. Just a 3 times more expensive GCN with a new controller, which kinda sucked in itself, because the accessories were all expensive as hell and tough as hell to come by for months too.

As for Paper Mario, I didn't bother with that one back when I had a Gamecube, and that was during a fairly dry software period. The new Paper Mario is going to have to rewrite the franchise to get that kind of interest from me. I only even put up with RPGs anymore because they have an anime theme, and I feel like a total douche for it. The genre itself is a damn dinosaur that won't go extinct.

[Aiia]

For me it was a no-brainer -- I never got a gamecube, and for only $250 I got to try out the new controller + buy all those gamecube games I'd missed playing...

Sounds like what I did. I didn't have money to buy, much less time to play, a game cube, since I was in the middle of my university studies by then. But now that I have a little extra money to spend and a need to take a break from my freelance work from time to time, the Wii was the perfect option. I figure that second hand GameCube games will be easy to get cheep to satisfy my love for RPG and adventure games. Which also means that I can pick the best of the current Wii games released without having to hold out for new games.

So all in all, Wii has been a great way to get back into gaming after taking a 7 year long break.

In the end I decided to buy a Japanese Wii, since its compatible to my computer (which has a TV-card and is NTSC compatible, my country is PAL btw). The second hand market in my country is actually more expensive than buying new games in Japan, so it was the best option. If I play with people who aren't fluent in Japanese, I'll just have to explain what the text says, but most games seems to be quite easy to understand even without reading the instructions.

[BoogiepopLain]

I haven't played a game on my Wii in at least a month. Nothing has come out since launch that even interests me. I only turn it on to vote in the Everyone Votes channel when I remember to do that.

Kinda wish I would have waited to buy it.

[Leon_Belmont]

:sigh: The Wii is fun when you're drunk and with friends.

But hell, a lot of things are. If public displays of nudity and embarassment are to be avoided though, it might be worth buying a Wii. But then, you've probably woke up with a $200 bar tab or two on a lawn in the wrong part of town with your wallet (and pants) gone at some point, so it's probably a wise investment altogether.

[Chacranajxy]

I haven't played a game on my Wii in at least a month. Nothing has come out since launch that even interests me. I only turn it on to vote in the Everyone Votes channel when I remember to do that.

Kinda wish I would have waited to buy it.

Anarchists who don't wish to retain democracy are screwed though. Wii are not happy.

[CrazyAsano]

I do appreciate all the replies, negative ones included. What Johnny touches on and Chacranaxy seemed to miss is that everyone has their own criteria. Half of what Johnny mentions as essential I couldn't care less about, and he didn't even mention at least one title that I consider a must-have: the Wii Monkey Ball game. Now of course, he has no idea I am a Monkey Ball fanatic, but that really doesn't matter,does it? :roll:

I never once said that what I consider essential is what everyone else should as well so I've no idea why I'm getting this sort of reaction.
I don't give a shit how much you like Monkey Ball. If you're into it you should be looking into the Wii game regardless of what I or anyone else thinks.

He said "what Johnny touches on"... meaning he was not accusing you of anything, but elaborating on a point he thought you began.

[juliant59]

Still no Wii for me as well, but I'm more concerned about getting a PS3 first. Has some killer games and also I can finally get some PS1 games on my PSP :), but I still want a Wii but I can wait. Only games I want on Wii are Trauma Center, Super Paper Mario, and Budokai Tenkaichi 2. So I can wait for now

[GHardin]

Trust me, you're not missing out on much.

Funny, the same could be said for the other systems as well. :sd:

Getting even harder to really care about any system, considering exclusives are becoming a thing of the past, too. :tired:

[jecca-neko]

Half of what Johnny mentions as essential I couldn't care less about, and he didn't even mention at least one title that I consider a must-have: the Wii Monkey Ball game.

I know you're a Monkey Ball fan but I'd recommend Rayman Raving Rabbids over it if you want a good party game for the kids, just because I've heard so many bad things about the controls, and these are from people who are Monkey Ball fans.

I know Johnny, Cha-kun, and others are unhappy with it but I'm really loving the Wii. I think some underrated games have come out for it. Virtual Console provides great games. And, of course, there's the bonus backwards compatibility with Gamecube games.

I second trying to go to Circuit City tomorrow. Make sure to go to the store at least an hour before it opens or you may not have a chance.

[cheezisgoooood]

Why is everyone in such a hurry to get a Wii, the real Wii games haven't even come out yet! What we're getting now are tech demoes, minigames, and Gamecube ports. Don't be in such a hurry, wait until Fall.

[Captain Impulse]

My wife and I got a Wii by being in the right place at the right time; EB Games had just received a shipment of them and we leapt on the opportunity. At the moment we only have Wii Sports and Zelda, but I know my wife's looking forward to Cooking Mama and something else I can't remember. The only game that really interests me is Hajime no Ippo: Revolution, but only if it sees a stateside release.

My Xbox 360 and PS2 see a lot more play at the moment than the Wii.

[jecca-neko]

Why is everyone in such a hurry to get a Wii, the real Wii games haven't even come out yet! What we're getting now are tech demoes, minigames, and Gamecube ports.

Don't forget the all important DS ports.

Yes, I still love the Wii. I felt the need to pick on it just then. :D

[Chacranajxy]

Trust me, you're not missing out on much.

Funny, the same could be said for the other systems as well. :sd:

Getting even harder to really care about any system, considering exclusives are becoming a thing of the past, too. :tired:

Yeah, the lineups for the 360 and PS3 are pretty weak... I find myself mostly playing either the PC, the portable systems, and the PS2. Where the Wii differentiates itself from the 360 and PS3 though is that it lacks a release calendar with any potential. As in, it feels like this'll be another system where Nintendo pumps out one or two good games a year, the third parties fuck up, and people start to lose interest in the system once the gimmicks wear off.

[Captain Impulse]

Hmm...I dunno about that. I'm playing the hell out of my 360 and loving the games I have. I'm really looking forward to some big titles as well. The PS3 has yet to show me anything worth getting really excited over (except Little Big Planet), and if I'm not playing my 360 or World of Warcraft, I'm picking up some older PS2 titles.

My wife is more into the Wii, but even that interests me a lot more than the PS3. I'll probably end up with one at some point anyway, but other than that I'm loving the 360's lineup and outlook.

[Johnny]

I know Johnny, Cha-kun, and others are unhappy with it but I'm really loving the Wii. I think some underrated games have come out for it. Virtual Console provides great games. And, of course, there's the bonus backwards compatibility with Gamecube games.


No, I'm not unhappy with the Wii. Yes, it has faults, but I feel more inclined to point these out than the faults of the other consoles because everyone has been swept up in the blind 'Nintendo obviously care more about games/gamers' thing just because their console is cheaper and has a different control scheme.

I love my Wii's (remember I spent almost as much on JP console and launch games as I did my launch PS3...) and it is a great system, but I just can't stand to see people saying it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's like it's ok to say that Sony and the PS3 may be on the road to failure because they haven't shifted as many consoles as they may have hoped, but it's fine to put all your faith into a console which could potentially end up disastrous.
As I've said many times before, I was genuinely one of the people who didn't dismiss the DS as a gimmick when it came out. It took quite a while for it to be 'accepted' and now look at it.
I have every confidence the Wii will be the same and that this Christmas and into next year I'll be sitting here with a shelf full of games and praising the great stuff being released onto it but it will take time.
I'm lucky in the fact that I have both a Japanese and US Wii, meaning that anytime the US releases dry up, I can dip into the weirder/exclusive Japanese stuff (not to mention the Japanese VC) but I'm trying to look at things from the perspective of most people here who own a US Wii (and feel a great sense of pity for those who went the PAL route).

The Virtual Console is a great idea and I don't really have any complaints about it, other than the fact that I feel it should have some sort of trial mode for games like XBL does.

My greatest fear with the Wii (and other consoles this generation) is the whole 'casual gamer' thing. Yes, it's great to make games more accessible to people who don't usually play them (most of the people I know/have heard talking about the Wii in work aren't 'hardcore' gamers) but as long as this is not the defining concept for games on any platform then I'll be happy.

[ADC]

No, I'm not unhappy with the Wii. Yes, it has faults, but I feel more inclined to point these out than the faults of the other consoles because everyone has been swept up in the blind 'Nintendo obviously care more about games/gamers' thing just because their console is cheaper and has a different control scheme.
I don't know that it's really blind allegiance to Nintendo so much as gamers just getting tired of playing the same damn'd game with the same damn'd gameplay and paying more for the privilege. Nintendo's scored a lot of points (everywhere except on Xbox Live) just for breaking out of the mold, as I'm sure you'll agree.

Cha said he was worried that the third parties would put out a bunch of shit games that are only there to use the 'gimmick' controls, while Nintendo put out a handful of quality games each year. So far, that seems like a valid fear. I don't think it makes the Wii bad — Nintendo is still arguably the best and most creative developer/publisher out there — but it could mean that there isn't a Wiiii in the wings and that the Mother Brain will end up back in the bigger-better-faster-more race, just because that's where the third parties are. I don't know that for sure, but let's just say that if the best EA Montréal can do is SSX Blur (load screens, alternately brilliant and befuddling controls, visually boring), then it's a valid concern.

I would say, though, that even taking into account these potential issues, the Wii is deserving of a greater measure of trust from the gaming community at large because it's so different. I mentioned SSX Blur because it's a perfect example of what should happen in a first-generation game on a new console. It should be an interesting proof of concept with several acknowledged, fixable flaws. I would not be at all surprised if, a year or two from now, EA have a new SSX game for the Wii which blows the doors off any of its Generation-6 predecessors and Generation-7 contemporaries. That's just the nature of the beast at this stage.

So Cha's right: Currently, outside of Twilight Princess and (hopefully) Super Paper Mario, it's tough to say there's a serious Wii game out there which really makes the Wii attractive. And jecca-neko's right: Nintendo still have a knack for making games which are pure fun. And johnny's right: There's great potential for awesome games on Wii, the Virtual Console's a solid addition to the lineup, but the flaws in the early games need to be addressed. And I'm right (because I refuse to accept the possibility that I'm wrong — it is, after all, impossible).

;)

The truth's somewhere in the middle, anyway.

[Leon_Belmont]

Just wait until the third parties have several A-tier exclusive titles you give a crap about and call it a day. They can always lose their exclusivity, but if they incorporate the Wii-mote in a positive way, it matters less.

At least, that's what I'm waiting for. I waited for several games period before biting on a Gamecube, and pretty much all three wound up being Nintendo. They didn't keep a lot of exclusives I gave much of a crap about. Symphonia for one. And Twin Snakes I wanted to at least rent (and did), but that's about it.

Not that I don't like Nintendo's games, but I don't wanna buy for a single company....again. If I did, I hope Konami never makes a system, because I'd bite in a heartbeat. In the meantime, I think it'll probably happen with the Wii, but it's gonna take at least a year. I'll play the patient game.

[Jarred]

I mentioned SSX Blur because it's a perfect example of what should happen in a first-generation game on a new console. It should be an interesting proof of concept with several acknowledged, fixable flaws. I would not be at all surprised if, a year or two from now, EA have a new SSX game for the Wii which blows the doors off any of its Generation-6 predecessors and Generation-7 contemporaries. That's just the nature of the beast at this stage.

On the topic of EA first-gen Wii games, the above could apply for Tiger Woods as well. The game proved to me that golf sim games will be absolutely perfect for the Wii. I had an absolute blast 85% of the time while I played it, but that last 15% frustrated the hell out of me. Putting was broken, because I don't think developers have a good idea yet how to measure such small wrist movements (I've seen it in other games as well) that putting requires. But I do think they can get it right soon enough.

Hell, I've seen a couple rumors about retailer's lists that already have a TG 2008 coming out in August (which means I'll never buy 2007), so maybe they are already improving the putting and other aspects.

It will be interesting to see the first-gen original IP games by 3rd party devs (like Elebits, which felt very proof-of-concept to me), where they don't have to think about how to make the Wii controls work for an existing scheme.

[quenelf]

It will be interesting to see the first-gen original IP games by 3rd party devs (like Elebits, which felt very proof-of-concept to me), where they don't have to think about how to make the Wii controls work for an existing scheme.

Agreed that original IP is where the main interest is for the system. The upcoming games in that category that I have hopes for include No More Heroes (the Suda 51 game), Dewey's Adventure or whatever (from the Elebits people), the Capcom pirate/puzzle/whatever game, and EA Montreal's music game. All of these might suck but they might not, too, so I'm hoping. :)

(By the way, I nearly ordered SSX last night, but failed, maybe that was a lucky escape :) I did order Elebits though.)

--quen

[Johnny]

The upcoming games in that category that I have hopes for include No More Heroes (the Suda 51 game), Dewey's Adventure or whatever (from the Elebits people), the Capcom pirate/puzzle/whatever game, and EA Montreal's music game. All of these might suck but they might not, too, so I'm hoping. :)


Treasure Island Z is the Capcom one. Also, don't forget about Manhunt 2 and Sadness, both of which are mature games which could potentially be amazing.

[quenelf]

Treasure Island Z is the Capcom one. Also, don't forget about Manhunt 2 and Sadness, both of which are mature games which could potentially be amazing.

For the moment, I'm not counting Sadness as in the 'mature' category, I'm counting it in the 'vapourware' category. :) I don't think it's ever going to be released. I'm not definite about that or anything, just probabilities... if a major news site gets a hands-on preview running on an actual Wii dev system, so I know it's real, then I'll change its category as it would definitely be of interest. (Obviously let me know if that's happened, I haven't seen it.)

Manhunt 2 I'd be interested in except that it features lots of gruesome serial killing. So, good for the console's image, but I personally won't be playing it even if it's a quality game. (Also not a new IP for Wii.)

--quen

PS I finished Zelda today! Woo! :) OK nobody cares, but still. :)

[jecca-neko]

I don't know that it's really blind allegiance to Nintendo so much as gamers just getting tired of playing the same damn'd game with the same damn'd gameplay and paying more for the privilege. Nintendo's scored a lot of points (everywhere except on Xbox Live) just for breaking out of the mold, as I'm sure you'll agree.

Exactly. That's my stance on this point. I don't have blind allegiance for any console maker. But I've been playing video games for a really long time now. I want something new. That's the main reason I love the DS and the Wii so much. Games like Trauma Center, Cooking Mama, and others have breathed new life into gaming for me.

Thus, I do feel like the Wii and the DS are the best things since sliced bread for me. However, I was really excited about both of these things way before they ever launched, so if other people are buying into it I'm not going to let them change my opinion.

[Leon_Belmont]

I don't know that it's really blind allegiance to Nintendo so much as gamers just getting tired of playing the same damn'd game with the same damn'd gameplay and paying more for the privilege. Nintendo's scored a lot of points (everywhere except on Xbox Live) just for breaking out of the mold, as I'm sure you'll agree.

Exactly. That's my stance on this point. I don't have blind allegiance for any console maker. But I've been playing video games for a really long time now. I want something new. That's the main reason I love the DS and the Wii so much. Games like Trauma Center, Cooking Mama, and others have breathed new life into gaming for me.

Thus, I do feel like the Wii and the DS are the best things since sliced bread for me. However, I was really excited about both of these things way before they ever launched, so if other people are buying into it I'm not going to let them change my opinion.

But Nintendo themself is often the primary game maker, and they keep milking the bread and butter they've been shoving down our throats for years. Even Zelda feels pretty damn tired now. With the PS2, we had the emergence of GTA (as an influence), God of War, Devil May Cry, Katamari, Zone of the Enders, and a slew of others. Heck, part of the reason I never got into GTA was it was too different from the norm. I'm not used to that degree of freedom, and prefer the linearity that inspires bigger reactions from the primary and secondary characters.

[ADC]

But Nintendo themself is often the primary game maker, and they keep milking the bread and butter they've been shoving down our throats for years.
I'd say that Mario being in every genre of video game isn't a knock on Nintendo's creativity; it's a testament to Mario's versatility and popularity. I'd also say that Zelda and Metroid haven't been plumbed (pun) nearly as much as they could have been and that they're easily as fresh as any other franchise. It sounds to me like you have sequelitis, which is a bummer — but those games you mention have all spawned sequels (are are sequels themselves), so it ends up at the same place.

I submit that Nintendo catches a lot of flak for Mario, Link, Samus, and so forth not because they're overused, but because they're from Nintendo and 20+ years old each. You don't hear much shit talked about Solid Snake even though he's almost as old and not half as much fun at parties.

[Suwako Moriya]

I submit that Nintendo catches a lot of flak for Mario, Link, Samus, and so forth not because they're overused, but because they're from Nintendo and 20+ years old each.

Well 20 years does give people a lot of time to develop their opinions on characters. Both in terms of the positive and negative. Sometimes people start one way and end up the other. However I find the reasons tend to vary by person. Not to say all the reasons are reasonable, but that's par the course.

Some feel that the characters are vastly overrated. That they mainly had the advantage of timing and that most of the love is obligational. On the other hand fans will point out it's just a sign that the characters have stood the test of time.

In the case of at least Link and to some extent Mario, some feel their characters are liked due to their personalities being empty template. Well nearly empty. The idea being that because the template is nearly empty there is less to hate and thus less to judge. For some this is seen as great thing. However for others they feel it's unfair that what they perceive as templates beat out actual characters.

Then there is the double standard. If Nintendo were to release Mario Party 17, Samus: Driver's ED 6, Kid Icarus: Tax Collector 3, and Legend of Zelda: Link's Dancing Lessons 2, they would be praised for variety. However if someone else makes a spin-off to a single game than it's pure evil milking. Fans will quickly point out that the reason it's fine when Nintendo does it because of the "quality" factor.

It's certainly true that Nintendo gets a lot of flak, but they also get a lot of blind praise. Still the same could be said for multiple companies and it's just the way things are. Something that's a minor flaw in your favorite series would be a major flaw in a series you don't care for.

[Leon_Belmont]

You don't hear much shit talked about Solid Snake even though he's almost as old and not half as much fun at parties.

Fuck that, he has a mullet. Party in the back!

[jecca-neko]

But Nintendo themself is often the primary game maker, and they keep milking the bread and butter they've been shoving down our throats for years. Even Zelda feels pretty damn tired now.

Well, honestly I don't have that same problem with Nintendo titles. As a kid I played more Sega games than Nintendo games. Thus I never got into Zelda, Metroid, Castlevania (yes I know it's Konami but it's historically a Nintendo system series), and all of the other non-Mario games pretty much. I'm a very recent convert to all of those series'.

Besides, the only Nintendo series I've ever been extremely dedicated to is Pokemon. Admittedly Pokemon hasn't evolved (unintentional pun) very much since the original Gameboy games. But they're still addicting to me. Maybe it's the part of me that collected cards and action figures at one point. I just enjoy collecting stuff. And now that Pokemon is up to 493, it's a large effort to collect them all. So it keeps me entertained.

[quenelf]

However if someone else makes a spin-off to a single game than it's pure evil milking. Fans will quickly point out that the reason it's fine when Nintendo does it because of the "quality" factor.

Thing is, that's not just a fan response - it's true. The reason people don't like many sequels is not because they're sequels but because they suck (which is probably sometimes because the publishers know it will sell anyhow and farm it out to a second-string developer, same as with movie tie-ins). If you look at the Zelda games in recent years, almost all of them are excellent (not just in my opinion - check the average review scores). How good was the third Tomb Raider game, say? Right. Same applies to the 'core' Mario games. (Sure, hardcore fans whinged at Mario Sunshine and Zelda: Wind Waker, but both were actually excellent games, even if perhaps not quite as excellent as other entries in the series.)

There's a reason why these games are good which is that Nintendo puts a huge amount of resources into them (and delays them if necessary). The next Mario or Zelda game is going to be a huge seller even if it sucks... but the one after? Nintendo's fortunes are closely linked to these titles; they have to make sure they're top quality.

The same doesn't apply to many other series, although you could consider Microsoft and Halo (say), or - stepping aside from the platform owners - Square and the Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest games, or Rockstar and GTA. All these games (the core ones in their respective series) typically receive good reviews.

--quen

[Lumberjack]

Kid Icarus: Tax Collector 3

I would kill for this game.

[Suwako Moriya]

The reason people don't like many sequels is not because they're sequels but because they suck (which is probably sometimes because the publishers know it will sell anyhow and farm it out to a second-string developer, same as with movie tie-ins).

I can't really debate this except to say that the reason some don't like sequels tends to vary just as much as the reason some like sequels. Yes the sequel sucking based on the person's opinion is one reason. However I've found some hate the sequels for being more of the same. While others hate them for being too different. Still sequels that are thrown together tend to have a higher chance of being hated. If for no other reason than they're more likely to be the victim of bugs, glitches, and bad programming in general.


]If you look at the Zelda games in recent years, almost all of them are excellent (not just in my opinion - check the average review scores).

The most recent Zelda I tried was "Oracle of Ages" which I ultimately gave up on. In part because of the Goron Dance mini-game and in general it was becoming rather boring. Of course to be fair I did find Zelda, Zelda II: Adventure of Link, Zelda: Link to the Past, and Zelda: Link's Awakening all to be decent games. At least back at the time I played them.

So I have seen that the series is definitely capable of quality. Still in terms of review scores. I've agreed with them enough to take notice, but I've also disagreed enough that I don't let them dictate what I buy. Other wise I would have missed out on certain games.

Okay to be fair no matter what I do, I will always miss out on certain games I have have enjoyed, but that's what happens when your funds are limited and you don't have the ability to stop time. *Goes through spell books*

There's a reason why these games are good which is that Nintendo puts a huge amount of resources into them (and delays them if necessary).

I have to admit that is one of Nintendo's strong points. Although to be fair delays can only help so much. Also not to say Nintendo is guilty of this, but with some companies you get the feeling their main reason for delaying the game is because the only actual work they are doing is thinking of a new release date to mention later.

[Chloe]

I do appreciate all the replies, negative ones included. What Johnny touches on and Chacranaxy seemed to miss is that everyone has their own criteria. Half of what Johnny mentions as essential I couldn't care less about, and he didn't even mention at least one title that I consider a must-have: the Wii Monkey Ball game. Now of course, he has no idea I am a Monkey Ball fanatic, but that really doesn't matter,does it? :roll:

I never once said that what I consider essential is what everyone else should as well so I've no idea why I'm getting this sort of reaction.
I don't give a shit how much you like Monkey Ball. If you're into it you should be looking into the Wii game regardless of what I or anyone else thinks.

I'm looking at my post there to see why you snapped out at me like that; I guess it was the "couldn't care less about" bit. When I wrote that I'm sure I didn't mean it sound like criticism, but reading it now it does come across as pretty harsh. I guess I was just trying to say what you had already mentioned in your previous post; everybody has their own list of what they want most from any system. Sorry if I hit a nerve there or whatever. I probably wrote that at 2 AM, like I'm writing this at almost 3 AM. :P

p.s. While I am bugging you Johnny, what do you think of Bully? I have that on order now for my PS2 but I have not played a Rockstar game before.