blood+ what does everyone think

[zaldar]

So what does everyone think of blood+? No reviews for it here yet. The movie always left me a little cold and the idea that she is upset and afraid that she has the power to save the world..well I've never quite understood that. I mean yes it would be a big responsibility and all but I would relish in the opportunity and the power I guess really. I don't know that part just doesn't seem real to me.

The animation is nice though and the story seems interesting. Love the servant great character.

[Teiresias]

There are no reviews because we don't have an R1 DVD release yet. I'm hoping that changes soon.

As for Saya, she just managed to achieve a bit of normal life (which is something she's never had), and now she's going to be ripped out of everything that was just starting to click for her. I'd probably be upset myself. :grr:

Obviously, I'm a big fan of her character--but then I've seen the entire series, so... ;)

[Puppet Master]

I saw a few episodes through AS and than gave up. Just couldn't force myself to give it anymore time.

[Suzaku Seikun]

I saw a few episodes through AS and than gave up. Just couldn't force myself to give it anymore time.

I was about to give up on it, too. However, it is sandwiched between Bleach and Eureka 7, so I ended up watching the past few episodes while waiting for Eureka 7. I do have to say the the episodes seem to be getting better, as the story is getting developed. But depending on how the next few episodes are, I'm not sure I'll continue with Blood+ after Eureka 7 finishes its run in the next few weeks.

[The Great Bear]

I've been watching it on AS since it airs after Bleach. It's okay so far. I'll continue watching it, but at this point, I've seen nothing that makes it worth a DVD buy down the road.

[Ingraman]

I saw a few episodes through AS and than gave up. Just couldn't force myself to give it anymore time.

After watching the first several (cannot recall exactly how many) episodes, I was underwhelmed, and canceled the pre-order that I'd had for the first R2 DVD. I felt that the animation/artwork wasn't nearly as good as I had hoped, and (in the end) felt that the series should have been several episodes shorter (maybe not all the way down to 39, but it dragged way too much in the first half)...

[Teiresias]

As I've said before in this forum, this one takes patience. For those of you that are enjoying Eureka 7, it's a very similar scenario: Eureka 7 took quite a while to take off IMHO. I'm glad I stuck with it.

Blood+ doesn't start to take off until somewhere around episode 16--although I felt there were some pretty good single episodes prior to that. IIRC, 16 is where I stopped and said: "Wait a minute, this is getting interesting."

Not to mention that Saya doesn't start to kick serious ass until well into the 20's.

[Destinyblade]

Yeah, I agree about this show requiring some patience. I remember watching this show back in '05 after Gundam SEED Destiny finished its run (this was the show that replaced GSD's timeslot in Japan), and I thought it was only mediocre at first, and even boring at times.

However, Blood+ becomes very good at around Episode 11 or 12, especially for those who are looking for some fighting to take place. All in all, though, this show is about the characters and how they change when it comes to facing the antagonists.

So if you like characters that are developed through a series that isn't rushed (as well as a little dose of acton), you'll like this. But if you're expecting tons of shounen action, you may not find this interesting as say, Bleach.

On a side note, I'm getting really worried about a DVD release since this is Sony. I know that Fullmetal Alchemist didn't get its first DVD release until about three or four months of broadcast on Adult Swim, but if Blood+ doesn't do well in DVD sales, Sony may just say "screw it" and cancel the remaining DVDs like they did with Cyborg 009.

[pianocello]

The show is very epic in feel - a setting that goes through different countries, a huge cast and two centuries. It's okay but the pacing is inconsistent. The lack of Saya x Kaori yuri is disappointing.... :>

[pathos]

After watching somewhere around 20-23 episodes or so, I have to say...

Everyone in the show except for Kai (that was her brother, wasnt it?), and his girlfriend, where pretty forgettable. That includes Sayuri (wasnt that her name?) and her little cello buddy.

It's possible that the show eventually got better I suppose. But, if you take nearly 26 episodes to even get interesting, my patience will probably run out long before that.

And this is coming from someone who did like Eureka Seven

[ZhenJi]

It doesn't get interesting until episode 16? That's too bad, I was looking forward to this show. I don't mind slow paced shows, but the story has to be very, very good. Any show you can compare it to?

[Miss Amii]

I've enjoyed what I've seen so far. It had me from the second half of the first episode. I do think that it is quite maddening though, what with the episodes feeling like they are over almost as soon as they began. Because Sony has such a lousy record with its anime DVDs, I'm TiVo-ing Blood+.

[golthin]

After watching somewhere around 20-23 episodes or so, I have to say...

Everyone in the show except for Kai (that was her brother, wasnt it?), and his girlfriend, where pretty forgettable. That includes Sayuri (wasnt that her name?) and her little cello buddy.

It's possible that the show eventually got better I suppose. But, if you take nearly 26 episodes to even get interesting, my patience will probably run out long before that.

And this is coming from someone who did like Eureka Seven

Like someone said, this show takes patience like Eureka 7, the first 15 episodes are character developement. Kai and Mao are my favorite characters too(Mao is not really Kai's girlfriend, Mao is just madly in love with him and she does thing for him even after the final episode)

[ndm]

On the whole, while I thought Blood+ was reasonably good, I ultimately found it slightly frustrating to watch since it could have been so much better. I think it was someone on this forum who pointed out that in this series, the good guys don't ever get stronger, the bad guys just get gimped down to their level. I have to agree - since Saya really never gets any better than she is in episode 1 and is essentially portrayed as just a girl running around with a sword it always seemed ludicrous to expect she could really fight Diva's super-powered team. Fortunately, the introduction of the Sif and their contribution of a few exciting action sequences and dramatic storylines rekindled my interest at a time I was getting bored, but the overall plot could have done with some serious tightening.

The fact I kind of dropped it due to ambivalence five episodes from the end doesn't really help (though I really should finish it, I suppose). I'd probably rate it about a 7.5 out of 10. That's harsh, but it could so easily have been a 9 if they'd tightened the plot, balanced the power between the sides, and actually made me care more about some of the side characters that the wasted potential hurts its score.

I also have to admit I really didn't like Diva's makeover midseries. They should have left her looking as she originally did. The change seemed unnecessary, imo, and was probably just made for seiyuu reasons.

[Sweeped]

I also have to admit I really didn't like Diva's makeover midseries. They should have left her looking as she originally did. The change seemed unnecessary, imo, and was probably just made for seiyuu reasons.
It was still the same seiyuu though. Riku and Diva both had the same seiyuu in the series.

[pianocello]

I also have to admit I really didn't like Diva's makeover midseries. They should have left her looking as she originally did. The change seemed unnecessary, imo, and was probably just made for seiyuu reasons.
It was still the same seiyuu though. Riku and Diva both had the same seiyuu in the series.

I thought the makeover was pointless though. It really didn't make any difference in the plot.

[Sweeped]

I also have to admit I really didn't like Diva's makeover midseries. They should have left her looking as she originally did. The change seemed unnecessary, imo, and was probably just made for seiyuu reasons.
It was still the same seiyuu though. Riku and Diva both had the same seiyuu in the series.

I thought the makeover was pointless though. It really didn't make any difference in the plot.

I agree. I probably could have stomached the rest of the show a bit more if it werent for that, but Diva's makeover was the least of the shows problems at that point anyways.

[Rhodes]

nature vs nurture.

it is what this show boils down into.

music is nice. thats about it :0

I'll pick it up as a boxset one day when its on sale.

btw saya is a twit. movie version is much better.

[golthin]

Wow! So many negative opinions of the show in here. Blood+ is my Favorite show and I wish they had made a little more of it. It must be a thing with the people that have watched the show and frequent this site, because in other forums people love the show and only have good things to say about.

[CGord]

I'm limiting my viewing of this one to the [as] airings, & so far, it's been OK, not bad, not great. I'll continue to watch, just because I like to have new episodes to check out every Sunday am (bless you, sweet TiVo).

The one thing that I'm not big on so far is Crispin Freeman doing multiple voices (I think I counted four in one early ep). His voice is so recognizeable that it yanks me out of the story when I hear it coming out of mulitple characters.

[Teiresias]

nature vs nurture.

btw saya is a twit. movie version is much better.

I'm used to more sensible comments from you R than this bit of fiction. :)

While I enjoy the original Saya immensely, it's quite the cop-out to give her no background, no history, no character, no preconceptions, nada, nothing, nowhere at all.

It takes a little more doing to present a character with some layers--you know, onion-like :sd: .

My argument has been that the Saya one gets at the end of Blood+ is the Saya one gets in BTLV. Blood+ explains how we get from Saya the sorta- high-school-girl to Saya-the-"vampire"-slayer.

The best thing about the show IMHO is this character development. There's always Bleach and Naruto for those of you who're fight-junkies. :D

[Teiresias]

Wow! So many negative opinions of the show in here. Blood+ is my Favorite show and I wish they had made a little more of it. It must be a thing with the people that have watched the show and frequent this site, because in other forums people love the show and only have good things to say about.

I'm with ya brother! :cool:

[DanielJr]

Blood+ is almost as boring as Trinity Blood. It's taking a while to take off, and where it's taking off I don't think I'm a whole lot interested in. I wish the show centered more around Saya's brother than Saya, he's got more... spark. I'll keep watching since I like to give Adult Swim some numbers (maybe or maybe not, worth the shot), but I won't be buying this show on DVD.

I admit the only reason I'm giving the show chances is because it's between two of my favorite shows in Adult Swim, Eureka Seven in particular... now there's a TV show. :P

My argument has been that the Saya one gets at the end of Blood+ is the Saya one gets in BTLV. Blood+ explains how we get from Saya the sorta- high-school-girl to Saya-the-"vampire"-slayer.
Doesn't the original OVA take place in the 1970's? The TV series looks pretty modern to me.

By the way, I thought the OVA, while short, was spectacular! :)

[Teiresias]

[quote=Teiresias]My argument has been that the Saya one gets at the end of Blood+ is the Saya one gets in BTLV. Blood+ explains how we get from Saya the sorta- high-school-girl to Saya-the-"vampire"-slayer.

[quote=DanielJr]Doesn't the original OVA take place in the 1970's? The TV series looks pretty modern to me.

Yes, I agree. That doesn't negate what I said, though.

By the way, I thought the OVA, while short, was spectacular! :)

Once again, I agree--absolutely loved the OVA. But you must admit that Saya's character was certainly lacking in depth??

[DanielJr]

No argument there. I still think of Last Vampire as a showcase or tech-demo for what digital animation can really do, not much for the story. It's cool and wicked, but story is a little boring and the characters are flat at best.

[HABE]

I loved the Blood: The Last Vampire Saya, but the Blood+ The Series version.... It took me a while to get over the amnesia cliche and her new, generic anime-girl personality, but I eventually learned to like her.

The Schiff are cool, and I like Haji when he's not vacantly saying Saya's name every 30 seconds.

There were enough good stories sprinkled about the first 2/3 of the series to keep me going. After that I was mostly just watching to get it over with. I agree that it's a so-so show -- nothing to love, but nothing to hate (except maybe the wasted potential and most of the later opening/closing themes.)

But to end on a positive note, I love Gianna Jun (from My Sassy Girl), who's slated to be the live-action movie Saya, so I hope that goes well. And that should be an action movie rather than a drama like the series.

Edit:


While I enjoy the original Saya immensely, it's quite the cop-out to give her no background, no history, no character, no preconceptions, nada, nothing, nowhere at all.
Normally I'd agree, but in this case I think this made Saya unpredictable. When you first see Blood: The Last Vampire, you don't know if she's good or bad or what she's capable of. Even her handlers don't. This becomes a weakness when you see the film again, but that initial impression stayed with me, which is why I can respect the technique.

[Oniko]

Hmm, well, I'm not really certain what to say of this series. I do think it's telling that I have fallen asleep during each episode that's played on Cartoon Network so far (I have never had that problem with either Eureka 7 or Bleach that play after and before it. Nor with any other show that's played during that time slot.) I'm hoping it grows to become more interesting, but as of right now, I feel no compulsion to collect the series.

[Rhodes]

your missing the facts thou...
Blood TLV takes place before Blood+
Saya in Blood+ is a total nitwit who needs a good beating. She is suppose to be equal to Diva yet Diva totally owns while Saya can barely hold her own against a couple of vamps.
Hajee (sp?) and Julie is about the only good thing about this show.
You can see Diva's motivation for the things she does... Saya's a spoiled pampered princess who is on a guilt trip. The movie made me a Saya fan, the TV series made me a Saya hater. Frankly I prefer to think of them as separate entities altogether and hope that they arent related at all... that the tv series is just a reimage of the concept from the movie.

[ndm]

I also have to admit I really didn't like Diva's makeover midseries. They should have left her looking as she originally did. The change seemed unnecessary, imo, and was probably just made for seiyuu reasons.
It was still the same seiyuu though. Riku and Diva both had the same seiyuu in the series.

Really? Ah well, it makes even less sense then.

[pianocello]

Wow! So many negative opinions of the show in here. Blood+ is my Favorite show and I wish they had made a little more of it. It must be a thing with the people that have watched the show and frequent this site, because in other forums people love the show and only have good things to say about.

I'm with ya brother! :cool:


I like the show. However some negative points did stop this from being a truly great anime.

[HABE]

Wow! So many negative opinions of the show in here. Blood+ is my Favorite show and I wish they had made a little more of it. It must be a thing with the people that have watched the show and frequent this site, because in other forums people love the show and only have good things to say about.
That might have a lot to do with the age of the posters. Blood+ feels like it was aimed at early teen viewers. It doesn't have the universal appeal or sophistication that make other shows more successful.

I thought the makeover was pointless though. It really didn't make any difference in the plot.


Every 10 episodes or so the writers seemed to revamp the story concept, trying to find a decent direction. The makeover (and the reason for it) was just one more example of this. It definitely feels like the series was written-on-the-fly by committee / producers rather than anyone with a vision for the plot or characters.

[Teiresias]

your missing the facts thou...
Blood TLV takes place before Blood+
Saya in Blood+ is a total nitwit who needs a good beating. She is suppose to be equal to Diva yet Diva totally owns while Saya can barely hold her own against a couple of vamps.
Hajee (sp?) and Julie is about the only good thing about this show.
You can see Diva's motivation for the things she does... Saya's a spoiled pampered princess who is on a guilt trip. The movie made me a Saya fan, the TV series made me a Saya hater. Frankly I prefer to think of them as separate entities altogether and hope that they arent related at all... that the tv series is just a reimage of the concept from the movie.

I'm really familiar with the chronology, ok? Don't be so linear! :)

Of course they translated B+ to our era--it probably wouldn't sell otherwise. Saya can still be Saya-in-genesis to BtLV's Saya-rampant. Saya in BtLV reeks coolness. The one thing she needed was a back-story. B+ provided that.

To say "Saya is a nitwit" is both inaccurate and harsh. Frankly, I think she responds fairly well to her situation--given what she faces, and what little help she's given by all the "really cool" people around her. Even Haji is completely useless outside of the fight. Saya needs advice, where's Haji? Saya needs bucking up, where's Haji?

I guess you give her no credit for her repeated sacrifices made in order to keep humans--including the "cool" ones that cluster around her--alive. Diva has no such constraints.

I look at it this way: I suppose they could've turned her into the fairly instant super-hero--no muss, no fuss. You know, typical anime. Or they could show the evolution of the character--through fits and starts, complete with baggage, warts and all. Frankly, I much prefer the latter.

Oh, by the way, in the version I saw, Saya cleaned Diva's clock. Did we watch the same show? :sd:

[Teiresias]

That might have a lot to do with the age of the posters. Blood+ feels like it was aimed at early teen viewers. It doesn't have the universal appeal or sophistication that make other shows more successful.

Uhh, 99% of all non-hentai anime are aimed at teen viewers. Moreover, given the amount of violence, blood and gore in Blood+, I think it skews older teen, rather than early teen.

As regards your "universal appeal or sophistication" argument, we recognize that you are stating your opinion regarding the show , and making a claim that others support that opinion with very little evidence to back it up.

Contra to your argument, I could certainly point out that a more objective measure (though less than perfect by any means) than you provided--ANN's User Ratings--rates the show relatively highly into the "Very Good" range:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=5088

This addresses the "universal appeal" part of your argument. As for the "sophistication" piece, I would merely pose a question: Compared to what? Maburaho? Girls Bravo? C'mon, who ya kiddin'?

[HABE]

Okay, for me, Blood+ was too simplistic, formulaic, and lacking in depth to gush over with unconditional love like a fangirl. For you, it might be the most complex story you've ever seen, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.

In my opinion Saya is a cool character that deserved something better.

Dang, Teiresias. You've posted often enough that you should understand by now that everything everyone says on a forum is just an opinion. I'm not making any arguments, just personal observations, just like you.

And of course people who hang out and vote on sites like that will gush. That's what they're for, and that's what I meant.

[Teiresias]

Okay, for me, Blood+ was too simplistic, formulaic, and lacking in depth to gush over with unconditional love like a fangirl. For you, it might be the most complex story you've ever seen, and I'm glad you enjoyed it.

In my opinion Saya is a cool character that deserved something better.

You've posted often enough that you should understand by now that everything everyone says on a forum is just an opinion. I'm not making any arguments, just personal observations. Glad to help clear that up for you though.

Nicely done! I counter your poorly-worded, ill- conceived "personal observations" with a few obvious facts, and you trash my taste and intelligence on your way out the door. Bravo! You'll go far at AoD.

By the way, no offense taken. O.O

[HABE]

Sorry, man. I must have taken your reply the wrong way.

[Rhodes]

i saw the same show... that was well after diva's big event thou, as divas chevalier explains other wise they would of had the same fate.

diva and saya both woke up... diva fresh from her sleep and knows what she wants to do... saya on the other hand repressed her own memories to escape from her past. because of that she cant even handle a chevalier on her own.

and if you look at the story concept... they didnt leap forward to bring the story into our time. it was a natural occurrence due to their sleep patterns.

Again, since i never played the playstation game or read the manga/novels... i dont know how well blood+ fits into the movie. the movie never showed the crystallization due to the blood. that is only pure blood+ which can be used to separate the universes.

[Teiresias]

[quote=Teiresias]
[quote=Rhodes]diva and saya both woke up... diva fresh from her sleep and knows what she wants to do... saya on the other hand repressed her own memories to escape from her past. because of that she cant even handle a chevalier on her own.

Diva's psychotic, one of the advantages of which is to not have difficulty tossing aside unimportant things like a conscience--a fairly simple character. Saya, on the other hand, has all this emotional/mental baggage--which makes her complex--or, in my book, an interesting character.

and if you look at the story concept... they didnt leap forward to bring the story into our time. it was a natural occurrence due to their sleep patterns.

I don't think the math works. It's been a while, but doesn't she sleep for decades? How does she wake up in Okinawa in the 70's?

[yowanda]

I've been watching this show on Adult Swim, and so far I'm pretty iffy on the whole thing. The last ep, 6 I think, didn't exactly excite me. But its good enough that I'll stick it out for now. I'm also nearly 9 months pregnant and on bedrest, so I'll watch pretty much any half-way decent anime at this point. :)

So far the characters aren't exciting me, and Kai and Saya are both driving me nuts. But my husband and I did enjoy watching Kai get a beating in ep 5.

[golthin]

your missing the facts thou...
Blood TLV takes place before Blood+
Saya in Blood+ is a total nitwit who needs a good beating. She is suppose to be equal to Diva yet Diva totally owns while Saya can barely hold her own against a couple of vamps.
Hajee (sp?) and Julie is about the only good thing about this show.
You can see Diva's motivation for the things she does... Saya's a spoiled pampered princess who is on a guilt trip. The movie made me a Saya fan, the TV series made me a Saya hater. Frankly I prefer to think of them as separate entities altogether and hope that they arent related at all... that the tv series is just a reimage of the concept from the movie.

there are some reasons why Saya is so weak compared to Diva, they are not very apparent in the tv series but they are there for the viewer to figure them out. The TV show leaves too many things to the viewer to find out. The manga explain these things very well, why saya is not as powerful as Diva.

[Shsway]

I keep forgetting to watch, so I guess this answers the question somewhat? :sd: I like Saya's "brother" Kai, but that's about it. And yeah, multiple Crispin Freeman voices (with hardly any differentiation to them), gets annoying.

[zaldar]

I also have to admit I really didn't like Diva's makeover midseries. They should have left her looking as she originally did. The change seemed unnecessary, imo, and was probably just made for seiyuu reasons.
It was still the same seiyuu though. Riku and Diva both had the same seiyuu in the series.

Ok going to show my anime ignorance here what in the heck do you mean my seiyuu reasons? Thanks! I have to say the episode on adult swim tonight was very annoying I wanted to hit her roomate at the school in vietnam after five seconds (I love the fact they wear what looks like nightgowns all day at the school to that was pretty hilarious) the phantom was interesting as well as all the girls oggeling over the servent but it didn't make up for the annoyance of her roomate. I know it was realistic as most teenage girls are like that but well I find them annoying as well...sigh and the two episodes before that were so great having to kill her father and dealing with it was done very well (was obvious after five minutes of the episode three weeks ago when they were looking for him what was going to happen but was still done well)

Another question how is the cartoon network able to show it if we don't have a region one release...surly they don't get people to dub it just for adult swim they don't have that kind of money do they (if so why can't they show some better anime and more of it...)

[zaldar]

That might have a lot to do with the age of the posters. Blood+ feels like it was aimed at early teen viewers. It doesn't have the universal appeal or sophistication that make other shows more successful.

Uhh, 99% of all non-hentai anime are aimed at teen viewers. Moreover, given the amount of violence, blood and gore in Blood+, I think it skews older teen, rather than early teen.

As regards your "universal appeal or sophistication" argument, we recognize that you are stating your opinion regarding the show , and making a claim that others support that opinion with very little evidence to back it up.

Contra to your argument, I could certainly point out that a more objective measure (though less than perfect by any means) than you provided--ANN's User Ratings--rates the show relatively highly into the "Very Good" range:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=5088

This addresses the "universal appeal" part of your argument. As for the "sophistication" piece, I would merely pose a question: Compared to what? Maburaho? Girls Bravo? C'mon, who ya kiddin'?

sophisticated anime for comparision and some of my favorites: The Ghost in the Shell movies (NOT the series), Eveangelion, Lain now most anime is not like this but this would be the best IMO, oh yes and paranoia agent can't forget that one.

It bothered me as well that though this takes place AFTER the movie that the character is do different. In the beginning episodes they even talk about what happened to her in Vietnam which was the movie as far as I could tell. The series is better than the movie but that isn't saying much as the movie had NO plot what so ever and was awful.

[roastedpekingduck]

You didn't like Stand Alone Complex? I loved SAC far more than the movies, which I liked too, don't get me wrong. SAC let the philosophical questions sink over you as the series went along. The movies though, especially the second one, just drilled those ideas into your head. The dialogue just felt too cluttered with references to various philosophers.

[CGord]

I'm still not a big enough fan of this series to want to buy the dvd's, but I am enjoying watching the episodes as they air.

Lara Jill Miller's Min, though, sent me back to Please Twins! as soon as I heard her. I kept expecting the two roommates to start chasing a guy named Mike. :D

[Teiresias]

(I love the fact they wear what looks like nightgowns all day at the school to that was pretty hilarious)

Not nightgowns-- Ao Dai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%81o_d%C3%A0i)

Another question how is the cartoon network able to show it if we don't have a region one release...surly they don't get people to dub it just for adult swim they don't have that kind of money do they (if so why can't they show some better anime and more of it...)

Sony has the license, and while they haven't announced the R1 release, I believe that the consensus is that they are waiting to see what the reception on Adult Swim is like before releasing it to R1.

[Destinyblade]

It doesn't have the universal appeal or sophistication that make other shows more successful.

I believe the reason Blood+ isn't as popular as other shows, such as Fullmetal Alchemist or D.Gray-Man, is probably due to the fact that it's not based on a manga. Most anime have to be based on a rather popular manga to have universal success or just have major success in Japan. Also, Blood+ isn't a series that has the ability to just "wow" viewers like Code Geass or a Gundam could do.

As for a DVD release date, I can only think of two things: either Sony is waiting for this series to reach its highest in popularity on Adult Swim (ratings), or they're waiting for the series to be finished broadcasting. Sony didn't release Astro Boy or Cyborg 009 on DVD until their broadcast time concluded, so the same may happen for Blood+. That would, unfortunately, mean we'd be looking at a 2008 release at the earliest, assuming that Adult Swim continues to show it once a week on Saturday nights. :(

Maybe when Blood+ starts airing its second or even third season, we might hear something about a release on DVD. That's when Blood+ really took off, and if Blood+ is already impressing some viewers, it should impress a lot more once the show hits Episode 16.

[HABE]

I believe the reason Blood+ isn't as popular as other shows, such as Fullmetal Alchemist or D.Gray-Man, is probably due to the fact that it's not based on a manga.

Yes, I think that's true in that the show's writers didn't have a solid body of established material to work with, so their stories are looser and more formulaic. I think that's the fatal flaw of the series -- it feels like it was written by a committee as a commercial rather than a creative venture.

[angelx03]

I believe the reason Blood+ isn't as popular as other shows, such as Fullmetal Alchemist or D.Gray-Man, is probably due to the fact that it's not based on a manga.

Yes, I think that's true in that the show's writers didn't have a solid body of established material to work with, so their stories are looser and more formulaic. I think that's the fatal flaw of the series -- it feels like it was written by a committee as a commercial rather than a creative venture.

Sounds like a recipe for your usual live-action American drama series (not counting those shows with a long, continuous storyline like 24 or Prison Break). :P

[zaldar]

Thanks for the aoi di link very interesting. I like to learn things like that didn't look exactly like a kimono but I can see the resemblance (I'm sure Bush lovvved wearing one). Still looking for someone to tell me what is meant by seiyuu reasons...want to improve my anime knowledge.

You are right that most long term american shows (law and order ect) are written by committie but then that is why we like Anime better (at least I do).

Yea I didn't like SAC nearly as much as the movies I liked the fact I learned more about western philosophy in the second movie than I did in college. As well I did'nt get any of the philisophical issues in SAC at all...I didn't see all the first season though (I got upset when it became obvious they were not going to have her merge with the machine) I also love lain and evangelion though (these along with some of ghost in the shell SAC and the ghost in the shell movies being the only anime I bought for myself)

So did no one want to hit her roomate at the school? Also anyone who knows the title of that episode in Japanese does it really translate to the phantom of the school? If so thats cool I love it when there are oblique refferences to famous american culture in a japanese product (especially one where america is made out to be the bad guy...oh wait that's ALL anime projects)

[zaldar]

well after episode ten I'm enjoying it more. Was rather obvious (say three episodes ago) who the phantom was but I enjoy seeing sanji having to come to terms with her past. He is also at least an interesting bad guy..I mean she did do some bad crap in the past I'd probably want to kill her to. Of course now that he know who she is and who her helper is will be interesting to see if she can still keep going to the school, heh can he give away who he is to get rid of her or not?

If you think of the show as a detective anime it works better the ongoing invistigation is much more interesting than the fighting (though the fighting is fun)

[JackC]

Am I the only one here who realizes the Brilliance of how good Quinton Flynn is at playing the Phantom? He was perfectly cast playing Carl/Phantom. He brings out a side of him thats kind of sadistic and maniacal with that character. I am also shocked to see Jennifer Darling in this. Playing a British school marm none the less.

[zaldar]

I love the phantom so far very interesting character. But then I always like the evil but not really characters in anime (why can't american movies or shows have equally interesting bad guys sigh)

[Teiresias]

If you think of the show as a detective anime it works better the ongoing invistigation is much more interesting than the fighting (though the fighting is fun)

I like to think of it as like a "Bond flick," due to all the awesome locations.

[zaldar]

A bond flick also works though bond would have to be the guy who has become sais' "father" (though not really as he doesn't see her as anything but a tool which I hope they do something with). After the dance was a very cool episode I love Mins reaction when saia comes out of the cathedral, also showed the guy thinking of her as a tool only as well. Put her in the school take her out what ever is good for the investigation (though how they are going to explain that to the school misstress it would be interesting for them to talk about. Loved the fight scene in this one as well showing it through the photographs from the reporter was also cool the story of a lifetime that no one will believe...

[Teiresias]

***Infinitismally minor spoilers***

While I loved the Vietnam arc for it's beautiful animation and gothic allusions, the plot really thickens in the upcoming Russian arc.

Further allusions to old novels and old movies abound in an upcoming episode which takes place on a train.

[ape2020]

Finally saw a few episodes this month and I'm going to threat this as completely seperate from the movie.

The first thing was the anime style that made the movie unique and gritty is utterly missing here. It seems rather generic and looks like many other shows in the same vain; Trinty Blood, Witch Hunter Robin, and a few others.

The characters are bland as well, especially sadly Saya. I tend to agree with some that she is bland and forgettable. It not that I can get into this type of character as I have with Robin in WHR, but Saya just doesn't click.

Which then makes patiance to stick with the plot even less. I don't know I loved Blood:TLV but Blood+ seem to though it all the window and did an entirely different show with only the names staying the same.

Since I tend to give shows many chances I will with Blood+. Especially if I have an oppertunely to get it cheap.

-ape2020

[Teiresias]

My biggest problem with BTLV was the length: It was too damn short! I had lots of questions about Saya when that was over. I believe everyone of those questions gets answered in Blood+.

That's why I would say that fans of BTLV should really pay attention to B+: It deepens one's understanding of BTLV. I know, as I just watched BTLV Saturday night. Pieces of it that made no sense, actually clicked this time. BTLV improved for my having seen B+.

[treatment]

it'll be a while, but still can't wait for the english-version of Diva. :>

[ape2020]

My biggest problem with BTLV was the length: It was too damn short! I had lots of questions about Saya when that was over. I believe everyone of those questions gets answered in Blood+.

That's why I would say that fans of BTLV should really pay attention to B+: It deepens one's understanding of BTLV. I know, as I just watched BTLV Saturday night. Pieces of it that made no sense, actually clicked this time. BTLV improved for my having seen B+.

That doesn't really make viewing B+ anymore enjoyable with its wooden characters, average to generic animation, and sluggish plot. I mean I sure Japanese history text book makes Kenshin more understandable. I just don't want to spend my free time reading though it.

As for B:TLV, its just an action flick for me and a good one at that. Just like I love Kite, Mezzo Forte, and to lesser extent Spriggen, Tokyo Requiem.

-ape2020

[christianlf]

You know, back when it was originally airing, I never got past the first 6 episodes. It wasn't particularly bad or anything. It was just kinda generic, and I got bored and moved onto other stuff. I've not heard too much about it since that has made me want to watch any more of it considering the original letdown, but the IG fan in me holds out that I might give it another chance at some point in time.

[Teiresias]

That doesn't really make viewing B+ anymore enjoyable with its wooden characters, average to generic animation, and sluggish plot. I mean I sure Japanese history text book makes Kenshin more understandable. I just don't want to spend my free time reading though it.

As for B:TLV, its just an action flick for me and a good one at that. Just like I love Kite, Mezzo Forte, and to lesser extent Spriggen, Tokyo Requiem.

-ape2020

Gosh, I don't quite know how to respond since I can think of several Japanese history textbooks that I found more exciting than Kenshin... :sd:

What can I say? I liked the characters--even though they weren't Kaname Chidori or Shigure Asa. Saya definitely gets put through her paces--major ups and downs--her emotions are all over the map, hardly what I'd call wooden.

Neither would I call the plot sluggish--especially during a week in which I watched both InuYasha and Bleach (***Bleach Spoiler***he finally got to the fucking tower!). O.O

Yes, Kite and Mezzo Forte have it all for straight action--but their stories are razor thin: No meat to be had--especially Mezzo Forte. C'mon! I just watched MF a couple of weeks ago, and if it wasn't for the fabulous Mikura, I'd toss it. Storywise, it doesn't even make sense. At least B+ has some depth, quite a degree of explication, and more twists than you might expect.

There are many action titles that I would put ahead of K and MF, and most of those would probably trade some of the steller frenetic action of a K or MF for some depth of character, and a few plot elements (e.g., the aforementioned Kenshin-- particularly the OVA).

In other words, if K and MF are the lodestones by which your action ship sails, we're on a completely different cruise. :cool:

[ape2020]

In other words, if K and MF are the lodestones by which your action ship sails, we're on a completely different cruise. :cool:

A major reason why I won't even consider B+ the same vain as B:TLV. Right now I'm comparing it to what I little I've seen of Trindy Blood, Noir, and Witch Hunter Robin and maybe Crono Crusade. Its better then TB about even with Noir and CC. All of which look average at best when compared to WHR.

-ape2020

[Teiresias]

Now see: Why can't we get together on this?

I entirely agree with your ranking of Noir, CC and WHR (though I'd probably give Noir and CC a little more credit--they're better than "average).

[ape2020]

Now see: Why can't we get together on this?

I entirely agree with your ranking of Noir, CC and WHR (though I'd probably give Noir and CC a little more credit--they're better than "average).

Noir had some great character development but it was so-so in animation and unfortunely for me was advertised as a girls with guns action show. Something that it really lacked or did with lame action scenes. Crono Crusade I really liked the characters and action but the plot got a little muddled as it went on.

For now I will hold judgement on B+ until I see more. But it will be compared to shows just mentioned and I will not even consider it related to B:TLV. As of right now WHR is top of the heap of "modern" horror-action shows.

-ape2020

[zaldar]

My biggest problem with BTLV was the length: It was too damn short! I had lots of questions about Saya when that was over. I believe everyone of those questions gets answered in Blood+.

That's why I would say that fans of BTLV should really pay attention to B+: It deepens one's understanding of BTLV. I know, as I just watched BTLV Saturday night. Pieces of it that made no sense, actually clicked this time. BTLV improved for my having seen B+.

That doesn't really make viewing B+ anymore enjoyable with its wooden characters, average to generic animation, and sluggish plot. I mean I sure Japanese history text book makes Kenshin more understandable. I just don't want to spend my free time reading though it.

As for B:TLV, its just an action flick for me and a good one at that. Just like I love Kite, Mezzo Forte, and to lesser extent Spriggen, Tokyo Requiem.

-ape2020


Why I didn't like btv was that it was just an action flick no real explanation of what was going on. We seem to get that in blood +. Saya doesn't really seam all that wooden to me think of someone having to deal with repressed memories. That is what she is dealing with and I think they portray that well. Episode 12 was very interesting episode 13 looks like it will be great. I love the action sequences but I love the character development more. Not as good as eva or paranoia agent but seems to be trying to be in that vain which I like.

[zaldar]

well they showed the Siberian episode today very good I have never seen the movie so I didn't get all the homages (I think there was a movie where the train was important at least) but still interesting was nice to see the girl get tough. Where did the doctor they went to Russia for though come from? I don't remember him ever being mentioned before or saya having to get transfusions (though it makes sense). Was slightly to obvious that the old lady was evil from the beginning for my tastes though.

[Teiresias]

well they showed the Siberian episode today very good I have never seen the movie so I didn't get all the homages (I think there was a movie where the train was important at least)

The train episode is one of my favorites. There are many references, the primary of which would be:

Murder on the Orient Express and
Doctor Zhivago

Also, a couple of Bond films:

From Russia with Love
The Spy who Loved Me

Even, a lame Steven Seagal sequel:
Under Siege 2: Dark Territory

And a hilarious parody:
Silver Streak

[CGord]

I have come to be thoroughly unimpressed with this series. I sit down on Sunday morning to watch the latest episode, & I feel like I've missed an ep somewhere. I go back & check, & no, I did watch last week's. I find it very bland overall, & I really wanted to like it. I like Crispin Freeman, I love Kari Wahlgren, but I won't be buying this one (assuming it becomes available).

[treatment]

You oughta wait until Diva. ;)

[CGord]

Oh, I'll continue watching it on [as], I just won't purchase it.

[golthin]

Oh, I'll continue watching it on [as], I just won't purchase it.

I think Sony is not planning on releasing this on DVD. That is the feeling I get! :( I am glad i bought a few of the R2 which my favorites episodes on them.

[joelgundam01]

I think Sony is not planning on releasing this on DVD. That is the feeling I get! :(

I think Sony will release it, but in box set/season set form. Sony Pictures is terrible at releasing out singles, but they are excellent at releasing out movies, box sets, and season sets.

[Teiresias]

I don't know--I personally thought the train episode(s) was one of the better shown thus far. If you didn't enjoy that one, you may want to considering bailing on this. FWIW.

[treatment]

I don't know--I personally thought the train episode(s) was one of the better shown thus far. If you didn't enjoy that one, you may want to considering bailing on this. FWIW.

Nah. I think he should bail out after he experiences Diva and her group. Then again, that's pretty much all of the second half of Blood+. :sd:

[zaldar]

The going back to 1900 was interesting I always new Rasputin was a bad guy. I did get the wait did I miss an episode feeling though....but why did they go to russia? Where did that lead come from in modern times?

I figured out the orient express after I posted never seen that movie but that is the most famous train movie. The fact it was a russian train here and they acted like that was the tease made me think it must have been a russian train movie, I think. (thats the excuse I'm going with anyway ;)

[treatment]

well, for those following the english-dubs on this, the mighty Steven Blum has now appeared in tonite's ep-19. I just checked the wiki and found it was already updated with the spoiler-info of the character he was cast in.

btw, this ep was kickass with Diva's chevalier in action. No, Steven Blum wasn't the one voicing the chevalier. :cool:

[CGord]

Last night's episode was horrible. It's obvious that Liza turns on Saya, yet Saya continues to let her speak, putting her through a psychological wringer. Haji shows up & finally stops Saya's mental beatdown. Quick battle ensues, Haji gets a hand through the chest, & as he lays (assumedly) dying, Saya just hangs out, with an obvious enemy draped all over her, & listens to what she has to say some more. The hero listening to the villian's advice & acting on it (everyone is lying to you! Suddenly I'm the one you can trust!) is a played-out cliche, I know, but here they do it sooooo poorly! Man. I'm not sure why I'll keep watching this thing, but I know I will. I keep hoping for it to improve (& the flashback of Saya & Haji in Russia was a good ep). Maybe the writing will improve. Maybe I should watch with the Japanese audio? Is the writing better in the original?

[treatment]

Err, I disagree. It's the best ep so far.

As such, Saya was beaten and not in a position to either ignore or not listen to Liza. Haji got 0wn3d and her sword broken. :cool:

[treatment]

welp!

[AS] just aired ep-23 tonite. Chevalier action with Haji vs Solomon, as well as more revelations and Riku's fate.

Next week's episode will be very very significant, as it will finally _be_ the full debut of the mighty mighty Diva. :>

Don't miss ep-24 next week! :>

[zaldar]

Ah seeing diva drink the blood of her beloved brother now we will FINALLY get to see her take total sides and hopefully go all out and kick some MAJOR *&^*^%. It does bring up some questions though...who in the heck were the "vampires" that died in sunlight? How do the chevalier's survive do they have to drink blood as well and why are the "diva" vampires not effected by sunlight?

I just love her brother thinking it was her and running up to diva only to be sucked dry ah the irony!

[treatment]

Ah seeing diva drink the blood of her beloved brother now we will FINALLY get to see her take total sides and hopefully go all out and kick some MAJOR *&^*^%. It does bring up some questions though...who in the heck were the "vampires" that died in sunlight? How do the chevalier's survive do they have to drink blood as well and why are the "diva" vampires not effected by sunlight?

I just love her brother thinking it was her and running up to diva only to be sucked dry ah the irony!

ahhh! you're so ready for ep24. ehehehe! :>

[zaldar]

Oh yes I am! I love the strange story behind the show but I also adore the action scenes. Best of both worlds really action of bleach only better and some of the strangeness of ghost in the shell, though not nearly as much or as much philosophy but then you can't have everything. Ghost in the shell still is my perfect best of both worlds anime...noein is coming closer all the time though man that has some great action.

[Splitter]

Ah seeing diva drink the blood of her beloved brother now we will FINALLY get to see her take total sides and hopefully go all out and kick some MAJOR *&^*^%. It does bring up some questions though...who in the heck were the "vampires" that died in sunlight? How do the chevalier's survive do they have to drink blood as well and why are the "diva" vampires not effected by sunlight?

I just love her brother thinking it was her and running up to diva only to be sucked dry ah the irony!

ahhh! you're so ready for ep24. ehehehe! :>

Ep. 24-32 is the best part of the series. YAY DIVA!

[CGord]

Hmm....maybe I'll end up enjoying these next few episodes more, I hope so. Now if I could only get past Crispin Freeman voicing what seems like a minimum of three characters per ep... :sd:

[treatment]

heads up.

it's ep24 tonite. Diva's debut! :>

[zaldar]

and so it begins. To bad they didn't have her transform as soon as she saw her sister but let the smack down begin!

[zaldar]

so unless saya goes through one of the patented anime power ups she is going to be dog food....

I do love anime for actually killing characters though I mean in a non anime movie her brother would magically come back to life.

[CGord]

I haven't watched tonight's episode. Thanks for the spoiler.

[zaldar]

um sorry I assumed we were all watching it at the same time as it came on at the same time. Won't make that mistake again...

(I actually didn't spoil it as it I won't say more but so watch it)

[One Vorlon]

You know, back when it was originally airing, I never got past the first 6 episodes. It wasn't particularly bad or anything. It was just kinda generic, and I got bored and moved onto other stuff. . .

I think one of the major issues with enjoying Blood+ is the way the setting treats vampires. We the audience live in a world where the idea of vampires is common, and any day of the week you can catch reruns of Buffy on tv. However, the characters of Blood+ act as if the idea of blood drinking monsters is some incredibly obscure legend (at best). In fact, I don't think I've heard any of the characters even use the term "vampire".

So we the audience immediately key on the images of Saiya and the blood transfusions (or the less subtle goblets of blood), the comments about the Chiropteran victims being drained of blood, etc. and start thinking "vampire". However, the characters have to research, fight, and explore their way to that same understanding. So I think its natural that a lot of people would find it boring, waiting for the characters to catch up to us.

That being said, it does seem like the creators of Blood+ should have been able to handle that disparity better. Some cut scenes of Red Shield, or of Diva's chevaliers talking amongst themselves could easily have explained the setting (and its vampires) for the audience, even as Saiya and the others struggled to reach the same point.

[Sekiraku Bunchou]

But the chiropterans aren't exactly your classic type of vampires though, and that's made pretty clear in the beginning by the fact that they can walk around just fine during the daylight and everything. Also, in the early part of the show Says's use of her blood to kill chiropterans offers an alternative line of reasoning for why she would need transfusions, so a lot of the details concerning that aren't made all that clear early on.

I don't think the problem most people have with it is that it's too generic, but rather just that's it's very slowly paced and plotted out. It's only just now about halfway through the show that we've gotten a good look at the main antagonist.

If you added scenes for the purpose of exposition on the nature of the chiropterans however, I think it would take away a great deal of the aura of mystery surrounding them, which is one of things that makes them somewhat scary in the minds of the audience.

Anyway, I've really enjoyed the show thus far, and am looking forward to seeing where it's going to head in the second half.

[Funkatron]

But the chiropterans aren't exactly your classic type of vampires though, and that's made pretty clear in the beginning by the fact that they can walk around just fine during the daylight and everything. Also, in the early part of the show Says's use of her blood to kill chiropterans offers an alternative line of reasoning for why she would need transfusions, so a lot of the details concerning that aren't made all that clear early on.

I don't think the problem most people have with it is that it's too generic, but rather just that's it's very slowly paced and plotted out. It's only just now about halfway through the show that we've gotten a good look at the main antagonist.

If you added scenes for the purpose of exposition on the nature of the chiropterans however, I think it would take away a great deal of the aura of mystery surrounding them, which is one of things that makes them somewhat scary in the minds of the audience.

Anyway, I've really enjoyed the show thus far, and am looking forward to seeing where it's going to head in the second half.

Actually, she needed blood transfusions even before she started using her blood to kill. She needs the transfusions cause she is a chiropteran and and it's less obvious to do it that way than to give her a cup of blood in the morning :p

[The Great Bear]

Actually, she needed blood transfusions even before she started using her blood to kill. She needs the transfusions cause she is a chiropteran and and it's less obvious to do it that way than to give her a cup of blood in the morning :p

Exactly. They wanted to continue the charade that she's "human," and "just a little anemic." The blood transfusions were a simple device whereby they give her blood without everyone around her suddenly freaking out and discovering that she was a blood-drinking monster.

As for the show itself, I've been following it off and on during its Adult Swim run, and have to say it's not really anything special. Sometimes it's intetesting, but there are several periods where it really drags.

[One Vorlon]

But the chiropterans aren't exactly your classic type of vampires though, . . .

I agree. The idea of the hibernating queen vampires and their chevaliers, and some of the American created vampires (such as the kids in Vietnam) have a lot of potential.

However, I don't think they are distinct enough from "generic" vampires (or, in the case of the D-76 test subjects, werewolves . . . err, werebats) to justify such a slow reveal. For example, the idea of humans drinking the blood of vampires to become vampires themselves is pretty common in contemporary vampire novels/movies/tv series. In Blood+, its only after 20+ episodes that we learn this is how the queen vampires create chevaliers.

Ultimately, I don't think the series is really structured properly to reach its full potential. Instead of exploring aspects such as the involuntary experiments with D-76 or the attempts to weaponize vampirism, the series focuses on the "Oh my god! They're drinking human blood!" moments - moments that were already tapped out decades, if not centuries ago.

[zaldar]

What makes the series interesting is the way diva and her sister interact and the differences between them. How much is nurture I wonder. I would be somewhat ticked off if I had been locked in a room as well. Tonights episode was interesting. The new sword is HOT. Is it wrong that I find saya hot when she is in full I will kill you diva mode?

Will be interesting to see what happens with her brother...

[CGord]

Well, I stayed away from this thread until I'd watched the last two eps. :) Both were good, but I still can't bring myself to care about the characters. At least with Diva I'll get to hear Kari W's manic acting, which I love. So far as Saya, her talent's going untapped, IMO.

[One Vorlon]

What makes the series interesting is the way diva and her sister interact and the differences between them. How much is nurture I wonder. I would be somewhat ticked off if I had been locked in a room as well. . .

Joel may have had to lock Diva up just to keep her and Saiya from killing each other. The queen vampires and their chevaliers bear a strong resemblance to a pride of lions (or a sea lion harem). If chiropterans have similar impulses, queen vampires may be inclined to kill each other from birth. Beyond the analogy, the fact that their blood is so virulently toxic to other "harems" hints at a level of evolutionary hostility. And since an ordinary human would be disturbed at the thought of sisters murdering each other (let alone a collector who'd spent a fortune acquiring them), Joel may well have felt it necessary to keep them separated at all costs.

Actually, that raises an interesting possibility. Diva may have burned the Zoo and attacked Joel, not out of animosity (or madness), but in an effort to destroy a rival's territory

[zaldar]

Now that is an interesting interpretation. I had not thought of that, but is the only reason Siya wanted to kill Diva because she killed Joel? Before it was almost like she didn't know her (which is odd)

Why does Diva seem to always have memories right at waking up of all her past lives while Siya only has memories of the present at first?

[Destinyblade]

Why does Diva seem to always have memories right at waking up of all her past lives while Siya only has memories of the present at first?

I'll just say this: continue to watch the series. You'll find out soon. :D

[Dolza]

Nope. That's it. I am done with this show. I really hate it when smart people do incredibly dumb things, and the past 2 episodes of B+ (on CN) have had more examples of this then I thought possible. And I really hate whiny lead characters who do stand there are let the bad guy kill without even making an attempt to stop them despite their "power". I have removed the season pass from my TiVo.
I think I have to go watch GITS: SOC now.

[zaldar]

hmm not sure when the last two episodes had smart people doing stupid things. You do have to take in account shock value and how that would make most people freeze, especially when you finally see your big enemy that you are not sure you can beat.

[Destinyblade]

You do have to take in account shock value and how that would make most people freeze, especially when you finally see your big enemy that you are not sure you can beat.

I can understand Production I.G in that they wanted to create a main character that doesn't want to fight and all, but I think that's what ultimately led the show to low ratings in Japan, now that I think about it (not to mention that the show wasn't nearly as fast paced as its timeslot predecessors, Gundam Seed and Fullmetal Alchemist). Even though Saya's character doesn't keep me from watching the show, I do remember how frustrating it was to see Saya not do anything, just watching others fight or die right in front of her (Episodes 6 and 12 are excellent examples of this). Thankfully, she doesn't do this too often or too long, but honestly, I think this show would've been more in the spotlight had Production I.G chosen Saya to be more like her counterpart from The Last Vampire.

Don't get me wrong: I like Blood+, and I think that some of the concepts were well thought out. On the other hand, though, I can't help but think this show could've been a whole lot better. And maybe animation studios should realize that you need the main character to be someone that the fanbase can understand and like, not someone that's frustrating to watch.

Part of me hopes that Production I.G will produce another Blood series in the near-future, but with a more well-developed and likeable Saya.

[zaldar]

I would have hated it if she had gone into a blood rage while she was watching her brother be devoured it would have been unrealistic. She does have a little to much angst though but her growth is in getting over it.

For a pacifist country Japan doesn't seem to like pacifist anime characters.