Gainax co-founder pushed out after Gurren Lagann mishap

[Lego]

Wow, this took on a life all its own. For those in the dark, heres what happened courtesy of animeOnline.

Akai Takami has announced on the official Gainax website that he will be stepping down as producer of Gurren Lagann and from the Gainax Board of Directors to take responsibility for his actions in having insulted all the Gurren Lagann viewers and 2ch. He regrets having to step down from producer of Gurren Lagann in this way, having worked on it for 5 years, but he believes that the younger staff working on it will be able to continue to make the anime successful as it is. His name has been removed from the Gurren Lagann credits as of episode 5. Akai Takami was one of the founding members of Gainax.

Mimori Keiko and Akai Takami have also both put up letters of apology on their mixi and Mimori Keiko has closed her mixi blog where all of this happened. All these just in time too, I was getting really worried that something bad would happen at the Gurren Lagann event at Akihabara tomorrow if they did not take any action regarding the matter.

There still are some who are unsatisfied however, because Mimori Keiko did not have receive any punishment, and Akai Takami is still with Gainax.


Well apparently it worked as Akai Takami has stepped down as the shows producer and is leaving Gainax.

[Fencedude]

This who thing was just.

ARGH.

[Lego]

This who thing was just.

ARGH.


Yeah it does seem a little overblown to me although I'm sure Toei had a little role in this as well as they were pissed off by the little comic Gainax put up. The thing that I found interesting though as that they said he had been working on this show for five years. I didn't know that it took that much planning when it came to a series.

[jojo_home]

Exactly what was said to insult the viewers?

[Shale]

Wait...he...2chan? Wha?

I'm so confused.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Basically, someone posted on her blog that she really hates otaku, someone else agreed, 2chan found out and went nuts.
Episode four became the target, and the comments for the episode on Gainax site are now a thousand post flamewar. Eventually 4chan invades and it gets really funny.

[Relwarc]

Sure, he could've been nicer in expressing his er...frustrations with critical fans, but a forced resignation? Come on! It's the internet, people. It's practically a license to be more extreme than in real life. Sheesh! :sigh:

On a more worrisome note, I wonder if the things we say now will come back to haunt us later. I mean, anyone can google anyone's blog/forum posts/etc. these days. :(

[Gatts]

Eventually 4chan invades

Oh boy. I knew about the flame war, but I didn't know 4chan had a hand in it.

[Fencedude]

Eventually 4chan invades

Oh boy. I knew about the flame war, but I didn't know 4chan had a hand in it.


4chan invading was the best part.

MOst of them were just as outraged over the art as 2ch/chan were, but ended up targeting the "stupid elevens" instead. Just to be jackasses.

[Lego]

It reminds me of the developer that railed against the Wii then took it back. It just seemed like both of them vented out of frustration when it came to this and like many things it exploded into the guy having to quit. Although it isn't the best business strategy to insult the people who're watching your show and are buying your merchandise.

[Shsway]

To this news, I say...uh, wow. The fallout seems rather pathetic and overblown.


On a more worrisome note, I wonder if the things we say now will come back to haunt us later. I mean, anyone can google anyone's blog/forum posts/etc. these days. :(

That's why one should never, EVER post things on the internet that one does not want to be called on/known for. It must become second nature for maximum leisure and minimum headaches/embarrassing conversations.


MOst of them were just as outraged over the art as 2ch/chan were, but ended up targeting the "stupid elevens" instead. Just to be jackasses.


Huh? School a 2ch/4chan-impaired internet user, please?

[DiGiKerot]

MOst of them were just as outraged over the art as 2ch/chan were, but ended up targeting the "stupid elevens" instead. Just to be jackasses.


Huh? School a 2ch/4chan-impaired internet user, please?

In what part? If you mean the "stupid elevens" thing, it's a reference to Code Geass, where Japan is invaded by the British and renamed Territory 11 - hence, the Japanese are Elevens.

[jojo_home]

Wait...he...2chan? Wha?

I'm so confused.

I don't even know who these 2chans and 4chans are. Are they just regular run of the mill troll posters?

[Shsway]

If you mean the "stupid elevens" thing, it's a reference to Code Geass, where Japan is invaded by the British and renamed Territory 11 - hence, the Japanese are Elevens.

Ah, I see...kinda.

I suppose I would need to go look at the aforementioned flame thread, etc. to fully get this, which I don't think I'll do.

[DiGiKerot]

Wait...he...2chan? Wha?

I'm so confused.

I don't even know who these 2chans and 4chans are. Are they just regular run of the mill troll posters?


2chan (Japanese) and 4chan (English) are anonymous image boards. They aren't really related, but 4chan is based on the style of 2chan.

Now, 4chan - or at least the /b/ board - is kind of considered the the very scummy bottom of the internet barrel. There's a lot of crazy stuff go on there, much of which is inexplicable for people who don't follow it.

Still, a lot of the memes which spread throughout english anime fandom (like the use of the term "gar" to refer to the manliest of men) originate there.

[something]

Gainax's bizarre hatred of the very people who put them in the position to be able to be haughty about everything just amuses me immensely.

[Lego]

Gainax's bizarre hatred of the very people who put them in the position to be able to be haughty about everything just amuses me immensely.

Wonder if Gainax is a little touchy after such wonderful hits like He is My Master and This Ugly and Beautiful World?

[something]

Gainax's bizarre hatred of the very people who put them in the position to be able to be haughty about everything just amuses me immensely.Wonder if Gainax is a little touchy after such wonderful hits like He is My Master and This Ugly and Beautiful World?
When I mentioned this news to a friend of mine, he commented that it reminded him of some goth band that so hated goths that they'd use smoke machines to fog up the places they played so they didn't have to look at their gothic fans.

I think that summed up very well how Gainax has always been.

[Lego]

Well I always got the feeling that certain large anime studios and even certain famous industry people had this haughty opinion on the fandom through interviews and things like that. But Gainax has been in the business long enough to know that flying off the handle like that would cause a response, but time. Which led me to believe that there is or was something obviously going on behind the scenes here.

The ironic thing for me is that you have the one company responsible for creating a majority of modern otakus through NGE, yet they seemingly can't stand the sight of them. It comes off as "Yeah, watch our shows and buy our products but we'll be sitting here in decontamination suits". The thing to watch will be the Gurren press thing they're supposed to have today or tomorrow.

[Gatts]

I think that summed up very well how Gainax has always been.

That's the wonderful thing about being an artist/animator. You don't have to look at the people who are looking at your work.

[something]

The ironic thing for me is that you have the one company responsible for creating a majority of modern otakus through NGE, yet they seemingly can't stand the sight of them. It comes off as "Yeah, watch our shows and buy our products but we'll be sitting here in decontamination suits".
It's almost like if a company released disturbing hentai and then thought badly of the people who watched and enjoyed it... oh wait, that sounds familiar =P

But yeah, insulting the people who make you who you are is not really productive. Free speech and all, good for them, but they couldn't have possibly expected people to just be ok with it :sd:

[Lego]

The scary thing though is that this shows how menacing 2chan can be on issues like this. While I know that this was an isolated incident, it scares me to think that a message board of raving fans(they did have a pretty good point this time though) can change the course of a show as it airs.

[christianlf]

The scary thing though is that this shows how menacing 2chan can be on issues like this. While I know that this was an isolated incident, it scares me to think that a message board of raving fans(they did have a pretty good point this time though) can change the course of a show as it airs.

And maybe that's why some people in Gainax have negative opinions about the insane, obsessive maniacs that attach themselves to some of their work. Fuck, imagine if you had to actually deal with people like that on a real, personal level. If I was JK Rowling, for instance, and actually had to interact with the legion of deranged maniacs* in the Harry Potter online fandom on any real level, I'd have painted the wall with my brains after about five minutes of it. Luckily for her, and for many creators, they can be far removed from having to put up with the obsessive types (well, the ones that don't become stalkers, anyway). Honestly, I feel bad for the people in Gainax more than anything, though *anyone* should know better to post that kind of shit on a blog. :sd:

*= this is not to say *all* HP fandom is fuggin' insane...you know the type I'm talking about

[Jumbo]

In case anyone actually cares where this quote was copy/pasted from. (http://zepy.momotato.com/)

If this is all you've heard about it I recommend checking his other Gainax news posts for better details on what exactly happened. (Currently the last post on the first page has the majority of the news revolving around this)

Basically, someone posted on her blog that she really hates otaku, someone else agreed, 2chan found out and went nuts.

I was under the impression (from the entires at Canned Dogs) that Mimori Keiko (The one who told the 2chan otaku to up and die) is a production manager at Gainax and she posted that comment herself.

Takami Akai thought he would reply with the 2chan=anus comment and that is how they both got in this mess. Seeing how the later is one of the founding fathers of Gainax I can see why everyone has been in a uproar about it.

regradless of 2/4 chan being "scum of the earth" or not (I imagine 2chan can't be completely bad if anime keep spoofing images and other related materials from it) Imagine US fan reaction to a R1 producer/etc. posting on Live Journal/My Space/etc. about how posters on <insert any well known anime forum name here> need to die would be just as big an uproar.

[Gatts]

regradless of 2/4 chan being "scum of the earth" or not (I imagine 2chan can't be completely bad if anime keep spoofing images and other related materials from it) Imagine US fan reaction to a R1 producer/etc. posting on Live Journal/My Space/etc. about how posters on <insert any well known anime forum name here> need to die would be just as big an uproar.

Been there, done that.

George Lucas + Star Wars fans = fun times.

[ucdawg12]

But yeah, insulting the people who make you who you are is not really productive. Free speech and all, good for them, but they couldn't have possibly expected people to just be ok with it :sd:

I think you are overestimating how powerful fans are in making someone talented. Fans don't create something they like. They sit back and enjoy someone else's hard work.

I don't see why fans feel they get a free pass attacking a work but for some reason they flip out if the creator strikes back. I can imagine how bad it must feel if someone rips on your work like it committed some kind of serious crime. Writers aren't the most confident and social people on the planet, they are bound to be affected when someone insults what they are doing.

I don't understand why some people are so vocal with their dislikes, it would seem that if something bothered them that much they wouldn't want to remind themselves about it by bringing it up every chance they get... Its a really weird thing to do

I admire Akai for standing up for what he is doing and I'm sorry he felt he had to resign from his position because of a double standard

[Fencedude]

Wait...he...2chan? Wha?

I'm so confused.

I don't even know who these 2chans and 4chans are. Are they just regular run of the mill troll posters?


2chan (Japanese) and 4chan (English) are anonymous image boards. They aren't really related, but 4chan is based on the style of 2chan.

Now, 4chan - or at least the /b/ board - is kind of considered the the very scummy bottom of the internet barrel. There's a lot of crazy stuff go on there, much of which is inexplicable for people who don't follow it.

Still, a lot of the memes which spread throughout english anime fandom (like the use of the term "gar" to refer to the manliest of men) originate there.

There's also 2ch (2channel) in Japan, which were the real major instigators here. They aren't an image board, they are an utterly, LUDICROUSLY huge set of standard text boards. They rank somewhere in the top 10 of all sites on the ENTIRE internet for site hits.

As for 4chan, as far as I know /b/ had nothing to do with this, the two boards who were most involved were /a/ (Anime and Manga) and /m/ (Mecha). It was mostly /a/, but /m/ has been having a problem with an unusually obnoxious Japanese troll coming in and flooding threads with large amounts Japanese text.

[something]

I think you are overestimating how powerful fans are in making someone talented. Fans don't create something they like. They sit back and enjoy someone else's hard work.

...


......huh?

What does that have to do with anything? Talent is meaningless in the commercial world if nobody BUYS YOUR PRODUCTS. "What they are" in my post refers to their financial success, not their talent (which at any rate isn't an absolute thing, what's the last smash hit Gainax had? FLCL?). He could be the most gifted creator in the world and it wouldn't mean squat if nobody knew about it and became fans of it and most importantly, BOUGHT it. There are plenty of talented people and even companies that most of us know nothing about, and never will know anything about.

[Andrew Cunningham]

There's a difference between 2ch and 2chan? I assumed they were both abbreviations of 2channel...
And I just realized I am mentally pronouncing "2" as "ni" while typing that...

[something]

There's a difference between 2ch and 2chan? I assumed they were both abbreviations of 2channel...
And I just realized I am mentally pronouncing "2" as "ni" while typing that...
Like Fence was basically saying, just think of it as 2ch = messageboards, 2chan = imageboard (which is why the English imageboard is 4chan not 4ch, though there is a 4ch messageboard).

[Dylonius Funk]

Wait...he...2chan? Wha?

I'm so confused.

I don't even know who these 2chans and 4chans are. Are they just regular run of the mill troll posters?


2chan (Japanese) and 4chan (English) are anonymous image boards. They aren't really related, but 4chan is based on the style of 2chan.

Now, 4chan - or at least the /b/ board - is kind of considered the the very scummy bottom of the internet barrel. There's a lot of crazy stuff go on there, much of which is inexplicable for people who don't follow it.

Still, a lot of the memes which spread throughout english anime fandom (like the use of the term "gar" to refer to the manliest of men) originate there.

Actually to be more accurate the board where this whole mess took place is 2ch, short for 2channel, which is text only. 2chan is an spin off of 2ch. 2ch is thought to be the largest internet forum in the world.

EDIT: Fencedude beat me to the punch :D

[Fencedude]

There's a difference between 2ch and 2chan? I assumed they were both abbreviations of 2channel...
And I just realized I am mentally pronouncing "2" as "ni" while typing that...

2ch is "2channel"
2chan is "Futaba Channel"

Similarly, 4ch is "4channel" (and no one cares about it, though it exists) while the proper name of 4chan is "Yotsuba Channel", and is also why Yotsuba is 4chan's unofficial mascot.

[Cyporiean 2.0]

2ch is "2channel"
2chan is "Futaba Channel"



so, When 2Chan is horny, it changes sex?

[Fencedude]

2ch is "2channel"
2chan is "Futaba Channel"



so, When 2Chan is horny, it changes sex?

You don't even want to know.

2chan's 404 pages redirect to porn.

[Jumbo]

I don't understand why some people are so vocal with their dislikes, it would seem that if something bothered them that much they wouldn't want to remind themselves about it by bringing it up every chance they get... Its a really weird thing to do

I could agree with you if this was a matter of a single author sounding off but when you are a simple member of a complex staff, I feel you really should take a second to think before you speak.

Again, the fact that one of the founding fathers of "Otaku" is turning around and calling the very otaku who made him what he is today "an anus" is quite shocking, especially for the way the Japanese business model seems to work. (Or at least what I have learned about it in business classes/reports/etc.)

I admire Akai for standing up for what he is doing and I'm sorry he felt he had to resign from his position because of a double standard

If he is willing to post derogatory remarks about a large portion of his fan base and cause a backlash that threatens the very project that all the staff and sponsors involved help to produce, then I have a hard time seeing a double standard in him being forced to remove himself from said project that depends on said fans for success.

If you are going to be part of a team then taking responsibilities for your own actions that jeopardize the entire team seems fair by me.

[ucdawg12]

...


......huh?

What does that have to do with anything? Talent is meaningless in the commercial world if nobody BUYS YOUR PRODUCTS. "What they are" in my post refers to their financial success, not their talent (which at any rate isn't an absolute thing, what's the last smash hit Gainax had? FLCL?). He could be the most gifted creator in the world and it wouldn't mean squat if nobody knew about it and became fans of it and most importantly, BOUGHT it. There are plenty of talented people and even companies that most of us know nothing about, and never will know anything about.

If the fans buy it because they like it, not out of mercy for this poor creator. The people he criticized were not exactly fond of what he was working on so they aren't exactly planning on buying something they had such harsh things to say about so how exactly is he biting the hand that feeds him?

You still attribute too much of his success to the fans. I don't know why you are so fond of this. Is it luck that the fans decided to make him this success? Or did he attract the fans because of his talent? F
Fans come because they like something, something someone else was responsible for. He has gotten to where he is because people liked what HE did.

The talented people out there that you say we know nothing about are doing something wrong.

[ucdawg12]

Again, the fact that one of the founding fathers of "Otaku" is turning around and calling the very otaku who made him what he is today "an anus" is quite shocking, especially for the way the Japanese business model seems to work. (Or at least what I have learned about it in business classes/reports/etc.)


Was this what he was saying though? From what I read it didn't seem like he was calling all his fans anuses. I read that, Akai "responded that personally reading the comments on 2channel was "like putting [his] face next to an anus and breathing deeply."

It sounds more like he was responding to his attackers rather than saying everyone who watches his show is an awful person. I don't see what is wrong with responding to keyboard jockeys who put too much effort into degrading something that is the result of a lot of hard work by many people who are creating a show to entertain.

I don't think the people that just attack and attack make anyone, they just try to frustrate others for some odd reason.

[Lego]

I agree. I mean lets get the facts straight in that episode 4 was a big downgrade when it came to quality. I don't even watch the show but while browsing blogs like Random's I could see the quality shift from one episode to another. It was almost like a Gonzo snafu. So they had a legit reason to complain and two select people at Gainax seemingly were annoyed and decided to post on it. I still think we'll find out that there was some other outside event to this unless Gainax was being flooded with emails.

With that said though I do want to make the point that Gainax, in this case, reminded me of something I saw a while back. I forget the show, but it was something where the main character was really into a series of books from a certain author. So he or she finally meets said author asking "oh how about this?" or "oh I loved that book!" to basically get told "I don't care and I wrote them for the money". Thats what Gainax seems like anymore. Gainax has seemingly fallen by the wayside when it comes to animation studios though as Gonzo has taken the top spot these days.

[something]

You still attribute too much of his success to the fans. I don't know why you are so fond of this. Is it luck that the fans decided to make him this success? Or did he attract the fans because of his talent?
Argh you're driving me insane with your attempts at chicken/egg nonsense. I'm talking purely about financial/popular success. What that requires is for a product to exist in the first place, as a prerequisite, and for fans to flock to it and buy it and talk about it and promote it. The latter is the hard part. When I say that the fans made Gainax what it is, that is what I mean. Gainax has had a bumpy relationship with its fans for a long, long time, and this is not the first time they've expressed disgust at the very fans they rely on, even as they whore their characters out to extremes (have you seen all the bizarre Evangelion merchandise?) and take advantage of exactly the kind of "otaku" they piss and moan about. It's silly, very very silly. Are they allowed to have feelings and be upset that people don't like some decisions they make or some shows they release? Sure. Is their attitude often hypocritical and counterproductive though? You betcha. But personally, I find the whole age-old Gainax vs. Fans battle nothing short of hilarious. They bitch about otaku while they try their damndest to sell the otaku their shows. Comedic gold.

Does that make what I'm saying clearer now?

[something]

It sounds more like he was responding to his attackers rather than saying everyone who watches his show is an awful person.
That kind of subtle distinction requires subtlety. "Taking 2channel seriously is like pressing your face to an anus and inhaling deeply" != subtle, and I'm sure he knew perfectly well that it would get a rise out of people who were already riled up from the other staff member's comments that the people who complained were "disgusting otaku". Is all this perfectly legit free speech? Sure. Should anyone be surprised/offended that it caused such an uproar? Heh, hardly. Internet is SERIOUS BUSINESS after all XD

[ayareiko]

Mr. Takami? Please sit next to Mr. Imus if you mind...

[Jumbo]

Was this what he was saying though? From what I read it didn't seem like he was calling all his fans anuses. I read that, Akai "responded that personally reading the comments on 2channel was "like putting [his] face next to an anus and breathing deeply."

I think the problem with this was that he was basically egging on the other employee who thought all those "Kimo otaku" should just "die." The minute he stepped into a response to that point, he was in over his head.

I don't think the people that just attack and attack make anyone, they just try to frustrate others for some odd reason.


People that attack and attack make anyone what? I don't quite follow you after the comma there...

Sure the fans attacked first, but then she attacked them and he decided it would be fun to put his two cents in there as well. Now if I'm reading that right, according to your last sentence you just answered yourself why it would frustrate others for some odd reason. what's the point of egging it on when all it does is frustrate people further for some odd reason?

Considering their positions, they should have thought twice before they decided to throw thoughts that could be taken this way out there. Someone was going to have to take the fall for this one anyway. (which is a very Japanese business thing to do.)

[KShinjo]

This all reminds me of a certain episode that once happened here at AoD.

Incidents like this is the reason why it's probably best for those in the industry to
- be anonymous online
- not mingle too closely with the fandom
- leave the PR stuff to those who know how to handle it calmly

[Andrew Cunningham]

Or use their real names and count to ten before clicking Post.
People are far more civil when forums aren't anonymous.

[KShinjo]

Or use their real names and count to ten before clicking Post.
People are far more civil when forums aren't anonymous.


True. But I think for those in the industry it's probably best for most to go online as "Joe Smith - anime fan" than "John A. Jones - I work for Company Z".

[something]

True. But I think for those in the industry it's probably best for most to go online as "Joe Smith - anime fan" than "John A. Jones - I work for Company Z".
Only to a point, because then it easily tempts them into astroturfing or deception or all sorts of nasty things that come from it. Get found out doing that and the uproar will be even worse.

[ayareiko]

This all reminds me of a certain episode that once happened here at AoD.

Incidents like this is the reason why it's probably best for those in the industry to
- be anonymous online
- not mingle too closely with the fandom
- leave the PR stuff to those who know how to handle it calmly
There is no real such thing as being anonymous online. When there's a will, people will find out who you really are.

The better lesson here is knowing when to bite your tongue.

[Dylonius Funk]

Mr. Takami? Please sit next to Mr. Imus if you mind...

I don't really see the similarities. I admit not knowing all the details since i don't pursue 2channel, but from what I'm reading it sounds like the guy got flustered, made some bad comments and is paying the price for them. It sounds more like the Michael Richard case where he snapped dealing with a heckler ( which makes me wonder if people have nothing better to do than pay to see a comedian just to ridicule him all night)

The Imus thing i saw coming for a whike. This isn't anythng new, he;'s allways been like that. But he allways managed to get away with it.

I suppose it's just as well it happened now since my dad is no longer around to listen and he was the only one in our family who did regularly, but i knew it was only a matter of time before the national mood, political correctness, whatever you want to call it became to much for him and he said something that got him in trouble. But let's not pretend he suddenly started acting this way, he's allways been like this.