Reverse Importation - Is It A Myth?

[Thanatos]

This is largely based on my subjective experience, so it's possible I'm off base. But having been living in Japan for over 8 months now, I'm really wondering if the line we've heard for years about reverse importation is true.

I admit it, I'm a geek. I've been to 9 anime speciality shops in my city as well as 3 huge anime rental stores. And while I have found US hentai R1s in small quantities at a couple shops, I have never seen a non-porn R1 of any kind anywhere. This is totally different from my experience in mainland Europe, where I could find R1s in an imported section at any "Best Buy"-style places.

So physical stores don't carry them. Are people buying them online? If so, where from? I can only see two online US DVD shops that will ship to Japan, and I don't know if Visa in Japan works outside of Japan. God knows, a lot of Japan stores that take Visa only take Japanese Visa, but I don't know if the reverse is also true or not.

But even if you were to order online, once you factor in the shipping, it is worth it to buy a $20-30 R1 + $10-20 shipping when you can go to your local Book Off and buy used anime DVDs for 1,200~3,500 yen each? Or just go to your local DVD rental store and rent and rip for 200~410 yen a volume?

Maybe reverse importing anime is something that's on the downlow, so I'm not in on it, but looking around Japan and talking to other otaku, I can't seem to find any evidence of its actual existence. If reverse importation in Japan is happening, can someone in the know here explain how?

[something]

I've never believed the reverse importation hysteria. I don't think many of us do. We only cite it as an example of what the Japanese companies fear (or rather, indulge in their absurd paranoia with), not something we really believe in.

Well, at least I don't. I know some people here probably buy that line, but more often than not it's just used as one more example of why Japanese companies are utterly retarded.

[kakugo]

It sure makes a great excuse when you sent a shoddy master, or want to jack up the price on a license in general. :D

Seriously, I'm sure reverse importation is a massive blow against the adult industry, but other than that the more I hear it mentioned, the less I think it's likely. R1's don't offer any real advantage to the R2's apart from price, and importing with expensive shipping charges - as Thanatos pointed out - probably makes buying used R2's roughly as cheap, and far easier to get a hold of. Also, Japan would lose the Japanese credits and in some cases either special features or 5.1 tracks or, whatever, making the release juuust a bit less appealing to them.

Besides, R2 licensors aren't worried about R3 reverse imports, which in most cases are just the R2 in a new case with added Korean or Chinese subtitles. If reverse imports were such a big issue, I doubt Asia would continue producing cheap R2 clones with additional language options without Japan stomping all over what's generally considered common place.

Thanatos has the right idea: Japanese entertainment licensors just hate America. :P

[Lego]

It threatens their market, simple as that. A cheap Japanese/English DVD for 20 dollars or so with three to four episodes when they're paying 50-60 a DVD for fourteen volumes of 1-2 episodes each? Thats the fear when it comes to Japanese companies.

[Dennis_Mullin]

So physical stores don't carry them. Are people buying them online? If so, where from?

Maybe reverse importing anime is something that's on the downlow, so I'm not in on it, but looking around Japan and talking to other otaku, I can't seem to find any evidence of its actual existence. If reverse importation in Japan is happening, can someone in the know here explain how?
One data point:
As an amazon.ca marketplace seller I've sold anime to Japan twice. Interestingly enough, same item in both cases (ADV's Nadia collection 1).

I assume they had some acceptable credit card from amazon's viewpoint, and amazon.ca's flat marketplace rate for shipping dvds overseas (single or box) of $7.99cdn is quite reasonable for the buyer of a box (but not for the seller).

[Cyporiean 2.0]

On a simular vein, I bought the UK DVDs of Futurama.

But that was because they got season 4 on DVD before america aired it -.-

[Jumbo]

While I can't remember what titles they were I do recall being shocked at seeing a couple R1 sets for sale at one of the big Liberty (http://www.rakuten.co.jp/liberty/info.html) stores in Akihabara, though it also didn't seem like they were going for much cheaper than their R2 counterparts, especially considering they were used. So either the guy that sold them made a lot of money or Liberty bought them on the cheap and jacked the price something crazy anyway.

But again, it was only a couple of sets, hardly anything a Japanese animation company would freak out about... (I'd like to think anyway...)

[daxomni]

God knows, a lot of Japan stores that take Visa only take Japanese Visa, but I don't know if the reverse is also true or not.

I don't think it's that you need a special card; it's just that you need a Japanese address and phone number tied to the card. Over time this has been changing little by little and now my non-Japanese cards are starting to work with more and more Japanese websites that are willing to take the risk of allowing non-Japanese credentials. However, it's the exceedingly poor overall value that keeps me from going crazy with what they're willing to sell me. Despite what you may read here on AoD, R1 is the world's sweet spot in my view and I'm just glad I can get R1 volumes so cheaply and with no tax and free shipping to boot. "It's a good thing" as that convicted old hag used to say. Anyway, I've mainly only traveled through Japan so my experience with B&M stores there is very limited. I will say that porn (both hentai and live action) is indeed reverse-imported though as you can plainly see the US releases in stores in Tokyo if you know what to look for. Anyway, all I can say is that I don't like where this is going with more expensive R1 volumes apparently on the way. Still, with all the rampant piracy this might have been an unavoidable consequence sooner or later. Eventually we may all be following the Japanese system and focusing most of our purchases on pre-orders or settling for used volumes when we can find them. :(

[Yuriko]

They sell anime in my country too, and I pretty much never buy it and go R1. Even with shipping (which is pretty reasonable in most cases) it's usually far cheaper than buying locally, and there's a lot more choice. English dubs/subs have novelty value too to the Japanese fans.

When I was in Tokyo a few years ago, even in mainstream stores like HMV Shinjuku you could buy loads of US VHS anime off the shelf, and it was reasonably priced. I haven't seen a dearth of it since DVD took off (probably harder to sell cross region in mainstream shops and confuse people). But maybe it's shifted to online...at least for the hardcore people.

I'm sure it's not as big a problem as they make out, but it definitely happens. I save 50%-75% usually by buying from the US. Because you're quite a big, powerful market, smaller countries just can't compete on pricing and variety for this kind of thing.

~Y

[vanfanel]

As an experienced bottomfeeder at Book-Offs throughout Kyushu, I don't think much reverse importing goes on. In two and a half years, I could probably count on one hand the number of R1 anime discs I've seen in their inventory, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they got those from foreign English teachers who brought them when they came over.

[stfram]

If reverse importation in Japan is happening, can someone in the know here explain how?


I've always figured that if any reverse importation was happening, it would probably consist mainly of Chinese bootlegs.

It's not like the Japanese are going to care if a boot has lousy subtitles, after all.

Either that, or they're pulling down raws over the internet.

[KShinjo]

This is largely based on my subjective experience, so it's possible I'm off base. But having been living in Japan for over 8 months now, I'm really wondering if the line we've heard for years about reverse importation is true.


I think it is true. I've seen a few Japanese sites mentioning U.S. releases of anime. The term for U.S. releases is : 北米版

If you search at Google.co.jp or Yahoo Japan with : アニメ DVD 北米版, I believe you'll get a number of hits.


I admit it, I'm a geek. I've been to 9 anime speciality shops in my city as well as 3 huge anime rental stores. And while I have found US hentai R1s in small quantities at a couple shops, I have never seen a non-porn R1 of any kind anywhere. This is totally different from my experience in mainland Europe, where I could find R1s in an imported section at any "Best Buy"-style places.

Obviously you won't find R1 releases in Tsutaya and other big shops. I did see R1 anime DVDs in a few shops in Akihabara though (I don't remember which stores). It's different in Europe as IIRC they rejected region coding for their players


So physical stores don't carry them. Are people buying them online? If so, where from? I can only see two online US DVD shops that will ship to Japan, and I don't know if Visa in Japan works outside of Japan. God knows, a lot of Japan stores that take Visa only take Japanese Visa, but I don't know if the reverse is also true or not.


I think almost all reverse importation purchases happen online. DVD Fantasium is a popular site for buying R1s. DigitalEyes used to ship to Japan (don't know if they still do). I believe Amazon ships to Japan as well.


But even if you were to order online, once you factor in the shipping, it is worth it to buy a $20-30 R1 + $10-20 shipping when you can go to your local Book Off and buy used anime DVDs for 1,200~3,500 yen each? Or just go to your local DVD rental store and rent and rip for 200~410 yen a volume?


I don't know why some folks would rather buy R1 anime DVDs than used R2s. I suppose one would rather pay for a new product than a used one?

Personally I think it's because
1. the prices for used DVDs in Japan aren't that much lower than for new ones
2. sometimes it hard to find all the discs you want in the used section
3. the volume/episode count combined with the price makes R1 releases more attractive.

And perhaps the English dub track is something that worth having (even to Japanese fans).

[Lego]

I know for a fact that when something is "used" in Japan(anime and game wise), most of the time it's in almost new condition. You have a lot of collectors that like to get their hands on things and treat them as prized possessions.

[quenelf]

Yes, but the situation in the UK is completely different. Same language for online stores; most of us need the subtitles (or dub) so have no choice but to accept sometimes-inferior discs, translated titles, missing extras etc.; and most importantly, we can get it either at the same time or (usually) earlier from the US.

If you're a fan in Japan, then by the time the show comes out in the US, all the hype died down a year ago. (Or more.) That's why the US discs are competing with Japanese used prices, not new prices.

[Orihara_Kaoru]

So physical stores don't carry them. Are people buying them online?

And would the average Japanese otaku know enough English to order from an English website?

The answer is no.

[KShinjo]

So physical stores don't carry them. Are people buying them online?

And would the average Japanese otaku know enough English to order from an English website?

The answer is no.

Ah, but there are Japanese sites that cater to the Japanese otaku that want R1 DVDs. Like this site (www.fantasium.com)

[stfram]

So physical stores don't carry them. Are people buying them online?

And would the average Japanese otaku know enough English to order from an English website?

The answer is no.


Isn't English taught in Japanese schools as a required course?

[ZetaEpyon]

Isn't English taught in Japanese schools as a required course?

Technically, yes, but the combination of the Japanese educational system's style (rote memorization of words) along with lack of usage doesn't make it very effective, in my experience.

[Thanatos]

If you search at Google.co.jp or Yahoo Japan with : アニメ DVD 北米版, I believe you'll get a number of hits.

I didn't find a ton of hits, but there were some. I gotta cite kakugo's point: if reverse importation was a real problem, then why don't the Japanese companies seem to care about the extremely cheap Taiwanese and Korean DVDs? For $33 USD you can buy the Korean Gunbuster set which has all of the R2 set content as well as Japanese and Korean subtitles (not even the R2s have any subtitles.) The US Gunbuster set is $60 and has less content. Or the Cyber Formula OVAs R3s can be had for $60 whereas the R2s would be $600. There are hundreds of series that can be bought on R3 with the R2s' quality for a small fraction of even the R1 price.

I think of course you're going to be able to find some amount of R1s in Akihabara, but I don't think many otaku outside the Tokyo area who would shell out for the shinkansen just to hunt for R1s-- seems counterproductive.

Based on what I can find and see, it seems that winny and the rental market are much bigger threats to R2 anime sales than reverse importation. It really looks like R1 reverse importation is an irrational fear.

[Fudce]

Also, an offset of the Japanese/American reverse importation question. Has anyone ever reverse-imported a UK anime DVD into America? It's again the same sort of deal, but I'd hazard that it's much rarer.

There are reasons to UK > US import too. While cost isn't one, there have been several occasions where the Brits have got something that the Americans haven't. UK/AU exclusive dubs, DVDs that aren't released there, etc. An example is Gedo Senki, all signs point to that being released in Europe this year (or early next year), and will be at a price similar to US releases. People looking to watch that before 2009 have two options, pay the price for the R2J, or pay cheaper price for the R2E (or R4).

[Thanatos]

UK is PAL, so I would never import a UK disc unless 1) it had something available nowhere else in the NTSC world I wanted and 2) I knew the disc was a film to PAL transfer so that I wouldn't be in a world of ghosting pain from watching the disc NTSC master -> PAL -> NTSC.

[DocWatson]

So physical stores don't carry them. Are people buying them online?

And would the average Japanese otaku know enough English to order from an English website?

The answer is no.

Ah, but there are Japanese sites that cater to the Japanese otaku that want R1 DVDs. Like this site (www.fantasium.com)
Or Anime Depot (http://www.animedepot.biz) for hentai.

To further the discussion: Ask John: "How Do Japanese DVDs Compare to American DVDs?" (http://animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=1385)

[meganly_chan]

I once bought the Futurama Season 4 DVD when I went to England a few years ago, but that was because it wasn't even available in the US yet (which I don't get - if it's a US product, shouldn't it be released in the US first?). I also have a few anime and movie DVDs in R2. But most are not available in the US.

[Dylonius Funk]

I once bought the Futurama Season 4 DVD when I went to England a few years ago, but that was because it wasn't even available in the US yet (which I don't get - if it's a US product, shouldn't it be released in the US first?). I also have a few anime and movie DVDs in R2. But most are not available in the US.

Often times syndication holds back TV. I recall reading somewhere that they couldn't release Buffy until a certain number of episodes had aired in syndication.