How to check if a DVD is Licensed?

[Fezi]

Some Time ago I bought a "Chobits Perfect Collection DVD.
The fact that there is a nonserious email-adress
(cartoon-mac@yahoo.com) and the other one, that the manufactury (fansnear animation INC) is listet on some piracy guides lead me to the assumption, that i have bought
a pirate copy. Now the Ebay Seller requires indemnity because of this statemant in front of paypal.


http://bagelboy.de/chobits/inside1.jpg

http://bagelboy.de/chobits/frontandback.jpg

http://bagelboy.de/chobits/inside1anddvd1.jpg

http://bagelboy.de/chobits/chobitscomplete.JPG


the region-code is codfree (ALL), synchronisation is english and japanese. subtitles are english, chinese and spanish.
the seller said, that there is a license for asian area.
How can I get sure if there is a License for this Product or not? :(
Have someone an Idea?
Thanks a lot :)
Fezi from Germany

/of course i checked all the anime pirate faqs and such stuff, but how can i be really sure?

[PhilipReuben]

Well, that's definitely a bootleg. No professional company would have a yahoo.com e-mail address, legitimate releases don't put 26 episodes on 3 discs even in Asia, and there's no Asian country where releases routinely include English audio and subtitles alongside Chinese subtitles.

[unknownfatehome]

It's a Bootleg. They'll try and get away with it by telling you it's licensed in Taiwan. It isn't.

Only companies releasing Chobits are as follows:

Region 1 Geneon
Region 2 ADV (Germany) Japanese/German
Region 2 MVM (UK) Japanese/English
Region 4 Madman Japanese/English

Geneon&MVM both have collections available, not sure about ADV or Madman.

[PhilipReuben]

As certain as I am that it's a bootleg, I'm skeptical that these are the only companies in the world releasing Chobits. Perhaps the only ones releasing it in English.

[Fezi]

And thats the point, the wants also indemnity for my statements and strives for an interlocutory injunction, which forbids me to say, that this are bootlegs. :( he wants about 400$

and i really dont know how to check if this a non-licensed product :(

my english talking is very bad and i have no japanese knowledge

[PhilipReuben]

I'm not clear on how or why he wants indemnity from you. What actually happened? Has he taken you to court over the matter?

[Fezi]

Well, ive bought this dvd and sold with paypal- then after the dvd has arrived i saw the non serious email and after i checked google for the manufactury, the booklets and such stuff i was very sure that its a bootleg and that this bootlegs are illegal (it was my first anime import), then I told paypal that this is a bootleg and wantet my money back- after that i got a letter from the lawyer that its an licensed product in the asian area and that i should immediately take down the conflict in front of paypal. I've done that because the dvd just costed 35€ and thats in my opinion not worth the stress with a lawyer.. yeah well, a few days after that came a new letter that the case has now found an end with my correction in front of paypal and that I have to pay about 400€ (i think this are the lawyer's fees) becouse of "slur on sb.'s reputation" and so on.. yeah.. after that I contacted the german license owner (ADV Films) and he said in a short sentence that its a hong kong bootleg version- i asked how the seller explains, that the german license owner and a lot of pirate-faqs say that this is a bootleg version- 2days after this the layer said, that the german license owner doesnt have the knowledge of aisan-room licenses and the pirate faqs are too general.

[Chubaka]

How to check?

One clue is the region-free claim:

If the DVD is region-free and it is confirmed that legimate companies are offering the product in other regions, then it is a bootleg. That, or the Japanese company messed up their contract and have permitted an illegal release.

- Kasey

[Fezi]

Hum, is there an official statement or something regarding this?

[unknownfatehome]

If I remember correctly the Pirate FAQs specifically name Cartoon MAC as a bootlegger. However if the company is based out of Taiwan then any personal claims tend to fail. Short of the Japanese Licensor taking legal action against them there's no way to claim the refund from them.

Of course I find it unlikely that it's Cartoon MAC themselves that are selling it.

If you check www.animenewsnetwork.com you'll find a list of licensers.

[Fezi]

well, it isnt Cartoon MAC which are selling this, I bought it at ebay from an anime seller there.
The Cartoon MAC name is only printed in the gamecase.

the problem is, that the list on animenewsnetwork doesnt have to be complete..
so it isnt a real prove at all

[PhilipReuben]

ADV Films are more likely to know than some random eBay seller. Surely the seller has to provide some kind of backup that it is a legitimate release, given that all of the available evidence is in your favour and all he has is an "I said so"?

[something]

then I told paypal that this is a bootleg and wantet my money back- after that i got a letter from the lawyer that its an licensed product in the asian area and that i should immediately take down the conflict in front of paypal.
I'm not sure how I got into this forum but wow, talk about a fucking arrogant bootlegger.

He doesn't have shit on you, he's just trying to bully you into giving in. Absolutely do not let him bluff his way into a bootleg sale.

[something]

Hum, is there an official statement or something regarding this?
Chubaka works for Geneon, the company that holds the license for Chobits in R1. However, I doubt he can get involved in any official capacity in this.

[Skywise]

It's a bootleg and fake, and so is probably the letter from the so-called lawyer. Don't pay them anything and tell them to go fuck themselves - if they want money they'll have to take it to court which alone would cost them too much and any attempt by them to prove their product is legit would fall apart under proper legal scrutiny. It's basically just a scare tactic to try and scam more money out of you.

Forgot to add: I've had to look into this because I do a lot of translation work for companies in different countries, and basically if they want money from you it's going to take them a shitload of work and trouble that's not worth it. They'd have to go to court in Germany, which is a different country than they're in. It's just not going to happen.

[unknownfatehome]

Nuts, you beat me to it. I was going to suggest the letters were fake.

[Fezi]

Well, the Lawyer is real and from germany.. I've googled him and he has allready handled some lawsuits (don't know if about license rights or something like this, but some else)


whatever, im really really scared because IF this will be handled out in front of the court i have nothing which proves my statements (except some guys which wrote a FAQ in their spare time and a short email from the german licence owner- who dont answer me anymore <.<)
thats not very much, to be right and to get justice is a big difference

[Skywise]

I'd still say to tell him to get lost. He's the one who has to prove that what they're doing is legit, not the other way round. At any rate, if he keeps bugging you there's free legal aid services that can give you specific advice based on what he's sent you. That's not something we can do here. You can also talking to the press/media (they love underdogs) and the Verbraucherzentrale.

[Shiroi Hane]

How can a Paypal dispute be a "slur on someone's reputation"? It's not like it is a public affair. Have you spoken to Paypal about this matter, since they are the only other party involved?

[Fezi]

Yay, paypal said, that disputs dont handled as a proof and its just a personal view after all-
but the mail came too late, because after that ive allready postet in a german-rights forum (they couldnt say anything at all) with the auction and of course i talked to the german license owner, too.

well.. it sucks :(
this thing destroys my vacation totally.. i cant sleep because my fear to get into debt.

there is no free aid service i know, i think ill go to the verbraucherzentrale on monday, but it costs ~40€, too

if my english would be fluent I had allready phoned the licensor.

[something]

well.. it sucks :(
this thing destroys my vacation totally.. i cant sleep because my fear to get into debt.
If you let this get to you, the bootlegger will already have won. He has no legal standing at all, and you've done nothing to get in trouble for. I still say it's all a bluff, and you need to call it. Keep at the paypal dispute, show them examples of the legit release, point out any inconsistencies in the item listing, and completely ignore this nonsense about getting sued. If he goes to court, he's just convicting himself of piracy.

[Fezi]

i was at the local court today and got a form with wich i get free legal advice and legal defense because as a student i have no real income. :)

i dont understand the thing with the licensing completely, is CLAMP/Kodansha the originator who gives the Licenses to concerns like ADV Films, MVM, Anime Virtual and so on or is it PIONEER LDC resp. Geneon Entertainment?

[something]

i dont understand the thing with the licensing completely, is CLAMP/Kodansha the originator who gives the Licenses to concerns like ADV Films, MVM, Anime Virtual and so on or is it PIONEER LDC resp. Geneon Entertainment?
Nobody understands licensing completely, we're never privy to the details :sd: In Japan, shows are often the result of collaboration between many companies who often form "production committees" to release a given show. So you have people with the music production, animation production, broadcasting, DVD and merchandise distribution (probably multiple companies there), and on and on. Unraveling these could be a full time job.

But there's going to be *some* company among those that will handle negotiations with outside companies who want to license the anime and release it outside Japan. What gets confusing is that, at least for R1 companies like ADV, I'm under the impression they often try to get global licensing rights for everything outside Japan. But I'm also under the impression that most anime is released in East Asia before it hits the English speaking world in R1, and certainly before R2UK. So

I'd be lying if I said I knew anything about R2 Europe licensing, but UknownFate posted that the licensor in your country is ADV Germany. So the question you're asking is, did ADV Germany get the rights from the Japanese rights holder or Geneon Entertainment USA (then still Pioneer)? Unfortunately, I don't know.

But it's also is worth asking whether you thought you were getting. Were you intending to import the English/Japanese Pioneer (Geneon) R1? The German/Japanese ADV Germany R2? The English/Japanese MVM UK R2? The English/Japanese Madman Australian R4? I guess in the end all that matters is that you thought you were getting a legit copy and it turned out to very clearly not be. After all, none of them have Chinese subs =P

Anyway, it sounds vague because it is, and if I tried to say any more I'd just be bullshitting you. Besides, it just occurred to me that people who live in Europe, Australia etc. would be better suited to tell you about licensing there than me =P

[Skywise]

Regardless of who ADV Germany got the rights from they could still go up through the chain to figure out if a release is legit or not. If the seller is German I'm sure they'd love to shut him down as well. Geneon USA has the dub rights, so it's possible they'd know if something is legit, and both they and ADV Germany can shut down the seller from e-bay easily enough.

[Fezi]

Geneon Entertainment, Inc. wrote this today:

And, please be advised we are permitted to distribute the
Chobits DVD only in Japan, and that TBS, Tokyo Broadcasting
System,Inc., is taking care of the DVD license to Chobits
for the foreign countries.

(it was an answer to an email i wrote a week ago to: http://www.geneon-ent.co.jp/ )

I hope tbs will answer a bit faster :sd:
geneonanimation.com hasnt answered my emails yet (ive allready mailed them)

and adv films germany doesnt answer anymore...

[unknownfatehome]

Geneon USA are your best bet for assistance as they own the rights to the English audio track.

So even assuming the Seller could convince a court that the "Chobit" licenser itself is a legit company,the English audio track that's included with the DVD set you bought is most likely illegally acquired.

Stick to what "Somebody" and "Skywise" are telling you.

[Chubaka]

Actually, North American rights came from Kodansha. ADV Germany could have acquired the rights from Kodansha or TBS depending on who owns the rights for Germany. The English Voice-over tracks are owned by Kodansha and could have easily been given to whomever the Japanese Licensor wants to have it.

- Kasey

[Fezi]

So Geneon USA has nothing to say and I should only contact Kodansha and TBS?

[dormcat]

It's a Bootleg. They'll try and get away with it by telling you it's licensed in Taiwan. It isn't.
I really don't want to use profanities here, but I want to say "go fudge yourself." While the product Fezi referred to was indeed a bootleg, Chobits has been licensed in Taiwan by Proware:

http://www.prowaremedia.com.tw/shop/default.php?cPath=22_192

You should feel lucky that this Internet forum is semi-anonymous, or you'd receive attorney letters from Proware.

To Fezi: the fastest way to get assistance is to contact ADV Germany (if they do care). Years ago, when bootlegs was still rampant in brick-and-mortar stores in Taiwan, a manager from Proware (whom I know personally) often drived a van with several Proware employees to storm the accused storefronts, with search warrants issued by prosecutors in hand.

[something]

You should feel lucky that this Internet forum is semi-anonymous, or you'd receive attorney letters from Proware.
Or maybe they'd just tell you to chill the hell out for what was almost certainly an honest mistake on Unknown's part.

[dormcat]

Or maybe they'd just tell you to chill the hell out for what was almost certainly an honest mistake on Unknown's part.
While I fully understand that the chance Proware really cares what UnknownFate has said is next to zero, I don't consider it as an "honest mistake." Yes, Taiwan has "earned" its bad reputation from making bootlegs years ago, but nowadays it's hard to spot bootlegs in brink-and-mortar stores. One can only find bootlegs in small (some even hidden) stores, twilight markets, or through mail/online order. UnknownFate has shown a good deal of prejudice from stereotyping, and doing so is particularly offending on this Region 2 (Japan) & R3 (SE Asia) DVD News & Views board.

The same goes to Chubaka, who said "if the DVD is region-free and it is confirmed that legimate companies are offering the product in other regions, then it is a bootleg." I can't believe this comment came from someone who works at a licensing company; haven't you seen anything from Central Park Media?

[unknownfatehome]

My comment was not in reference to the legitimate countries that offer Anime titles in Asia. My comment simply refers to the "Anime Mac" product Fezi purchased. It is a known and recognized "pirate" product.

I'm fully aware of all the legitimate releases available in Taiwan and I meant no offence.

[Fezi]

edit

[unknownfatehome]

Yes. It is.

[Fezi]

Puh, I hope its survived now..

[Skywise]

Thanks for chiming in and clearing that up Kasey. :)

[Skywise]

dormcat everyone here is well aware that you can get legit releases from TW now. There's no need to get all huffed and puffed up about it.

As far as what Kasey said, what he's referring to is that region coding is now required by the Japanese licensors for most releases, so it's one of the tell tale signs that something is fishy. What CPM may or may not have done earlier is more the exception rather than the rule, and they've been out of licensing business for a while now.

[kakugo]

You can get legal DVDs from Korea too, if anyone's keeping tabs... :P

Chobits has been available in Korea from Newtype since 2004. Japanese and Korean audio and subtitles, Region 3 DVD.

[dormcat]

dormcat everyone here is well aware that you can get legit releases from TW now. There's no need to get all huffed and puffed up about it.
See? That's the difference of how we speak. ;) If I were you I'd say "dormcat, most, if not all, users here are well aware (...)" Likewise, if Kasey simply added "with very few exceptions" in front of his post I wouldn't bother to argue. Those "disclaimers" can eliminate a good deal of problems.

Now, back to the topic of identifying bootlegs. I reexamined Fezi's pictures and noticed many Japanese names of cast and staff are awfully wrong, as if the bootleggers used OCR software to scan them from a legitimate DVD. If you can't read Japanese that's fine; there's one last method: as far as I know, no legitimate company would have Japanese DVD descriptions and English plot summary on the same DVD cover.

[LenMiyata]

Grumble Grumble Grumble

Related to the subject at hand, this article may be a little out of date, but it is still a useful reference on the subject...

http://www.digital.anime.org.uk/piratefaq.html

[DocWatson]

In the same vein:

Chudah's Corner - Reference: Bootleg Info (http://www.chudahs-corner.com/reference/index.php?reference=bootleggers) (on CDs)

which is a little more detailed within its field.