Thoughts on DBZ: Why it's the best anime series EVER!!! [Archive]

isamu

07-19-2007, 04:36 AM

Hi guys :)

Well, I've finally managed to watch DBZ in its entirety for the first time ever. Man, what roller coaster ride. Where to start...

I had previously seen the show back in 2000 in Cartoon Network dub form, but only up to the start of the Majin Buu saga. Now, fast forward seven years later, after having bought the whole series on dvd, I was able able to watch it from beginning to end and FINALLY see those Buu episodes I've been waiting to see for ages.

I can honestly declare, that DBZ is now my favorite anime series EVER!!! Even dethroning Macross which previously held the crown. This is the KING of fighting anime! I can't honestly see how Naruto, YuYu Hakusho, Hajime No Ippo, etc can top it. I can really understand why the series is as popular as it is, now. I feel I can now identify with the truly hardcore DBZ fans.

Upon watching the Babidi/Buu saga for the first time, I did not expect the series to take the turn it did with the introduction of these characters. Majin Buu has to be THE most disturbing villain in the whole series bar none! The fact that he turns humans into food and eats them is just downright twisted and plain wrong. But you know what? I loved every minute of it :P

Having not seen the Buu saga before, I was really taken by surprise once he changed into Evil Buu. First thing I thought was "Oh shit, this is gonna get goooood! :)"
You could actually feel the danger and evil this guy possessed. He makes Freeza look like Mr Rogers :twisted: I honestly thought Goten, Trunks and Picollo were done for, once they got out the Spirit Room(fusion or no fusion). There was no way they were any match for Evil Buu.

Once Kid Buu was formed, I said to myself "Well, this is the end of the line for everyone. No way Goku beats this guy". And indeed it looked that way for a while. But thanks to Vegeta's plan Goku brought out his trump card and saved the day with his Genki Dama or whatever it's called :)

Upon reflection, I think my favorite part of the series is still the Android/Cell sagas. There's just something sinister and mysterious about the way the plot moves along that attracts me. Anyone watching that particular section of the series can't help but sit and watch in suspense, wondering what's really going on. The way things unfold during the android and imperfect cell sagas, coupled with the whole time traveling aspect of it, and how they're all tied together is nothing short of brilliant.

Well it's late and I really can't think of anything else to add, other than it was a great ride. The length of the show does not bother me at all, neither does the long, drawn out nature in which the series progresses. I think the character development is one of DBZ's greatest strengths, as well as the way in which everything ties together in the Dragon Ball Universe.

I expect to re-watch the whole series from start to finish at least once a year. That way everything remains fresh and it keeps it from getting too old and redundant.

How often do you guys watch DBZ in it's entirety?

Fencedude

07-19-2007, 04:42 AM

How often do you guys watch DBZ in it's entirety?

I believe I speak for most people here:

Never

philnicau

07-19-2007, 04:51 AM

How often do you guys watch DBZ in it's entirety?
I've never watched all of DBZ, nor do i intend to, i find it tedious and repetitive.

Nork22

07-19-2007, 05:26 AM

How often do you guys watch DBZ in it's entirety?
Watching the DBZ movies is a faster alternative than the TV series.

Damius

07-19-2007, 07:58 AM

How often do you guys watch DBZ in it's entirety?

I believe I speak for most people here:

Never

Yes you are

Lumberjack

07-19-2007, 08:12 AM

How often do you guys watch DBZ in it's entirety?

I believe I speak for most people here:

Never

Yep. Exactly zero times.

GrateSaiyaman

07-19-2007, 08:44 AM

Once is plenty for anyone.

You know you can get your favorite episodes on DVD now.

Best anime series ever? If the characters didn't try and bullshit about their monumental powers, (and equally monumental egos), the series would only last about 10 or 15 episodes.
:>
Nope, there is better anime out there.
You need to watch more anime.
You should try . . . . . .
. . . . . Simoun.

Puppet Master

07-19-2007, 10:25 AM

DBZ has a plot? To think I thought it was just a show about people with huge muscles yelling at the top of their lungs while light glowed around em. DBZ is merely a bunch of random fights against a bunch of random villains who all want to destroy things and be powerful while the heroes try to become strong as well it's that simple. That fact never changes no matter how many arcs passed and by the time Buu showed up the formulas already tiring and Buu himself is beyond tiring as a villain.

Spirit Of The Stage

07-19-2007, 10:25 AM

I watched DBZ when it came out in the UK the first time...and it was my 2nd favourite anime series at the time!

Only problem is, I'd only watched 2 series...and the first was Pokemon. Enough said.

I think these threads remind me quite of a famous AMV by Doki Doki Productions...Right Now? If you're not familiar with it, there are lines with the words 'Right Now...' and then an amusing anecdote or personal/professional line.

What instantly came to mind was this line.

'RIGHT NOW SOMEONE IS CLAIMING TO BE AN ANIME EXPERT EVEN THOUGH ALL THEY'VE WATCHED IS AKIRA AND DBZ AND THEY CAN'T STOP TALKING ABOUT HOW GOKU CAN KICK ANYONE'S BUTT

I will admit there's only a few series in my collection now that can beat it...like Kaleido Star, Death Note, Haruhi, Ouran High, School Rumble, Princess Nine, Nadesico, ROD, Yakitate Japan...O.K, pretty much all my collection and I've got over 200 series, not including ones I haven't completed, seen raw or have sold.

In short, no. There are a tonne more series I find infinitely more entertaining than DBZ...and when I tonne, I mean 'all.'

halfbreed

07-19-2007, 10:43 AM

Actually Im watching it from the start as well. Right now im up to the middle of the cell saga.
Ive been watching anime for years and DBZ is still my favorite show.

Majin Buu is also my favorite villain. Thare's nothing funnier then a pink demon that turns people into candy.

Gundamhead

07-19-2007, 11:14 AM

I used to like it back in the day. But I just got fed up after the Freeza arc. It really should have ended there, but they just kept it going with the same things happening over and over again. How many "strongest in the universe" villains are there? Why are they all obsessed with destroying stuff for no reason? How come no matter how powerful they get, they all seem to fight the same way? Can't any of the heroes who aren't Goku or Gohan do anything besides yelling "HE'S SO POWERFUL" and giving shocked reaction shots?

Of all the anime I watched as a youngin' I have to say DBZ holds up the least well now. I still enjoy "Sailor Moon" immensely, I like "Tenchi" as much as ever, "Outlaw Star" is still fun, heck I even still love "Pokemon!" Well, the earlier episodes anyway. But DBZ (along with Gundam Wing) just doesn't cut it anymore. Sorry.

07-19-2007, 11:18 AM

He's tricksy, this one. :)

Konoha

07-19-2007, 11:24 AM

Bashing aside :P , I think since the show is so long it would be hard to watch it ALL more than once a year, if you want to watch other stuff too. Rewatching is such a heavy time investment.

I've never seen more than a bit of DBZ, but as much as people write it off as crap, like all long shows, there has to be part of it that's good or appeals to many, otherwise it would not have kept churning out episodes and movies. Say, as repetitive as it's made out to be, did it have two seasons of filler in a row? :>

hub

07-19-2007, 11:26 AM

Dragon Ball Z is one of those shows that, along w/ Sailor Moon, helped pique my interest in anime way back when. I still remember back when I was in Elementary school I'd get up @ 6am just so I could catch Sailor Moon on TV (same thing w/ DBZ on Saturdays). :D But then I began watching other shows like Tenchi Muyo!, and from there it just started spiraling into where I am today: 700+ DVDs, and I have no idea just how many series I've seen.

That being said, while I no longer regard DBZ as highly as I once did, I still don't think it's a bad show. I've only seen all of the first season and about half of the second, but that was enough for me. I agree w/ everyone else who said that the show should've ended after the Freeza saga, or even after the Vegeta saga (err, the first season).

Hmmm, maybe if they had a super-powered neko-mimi combat meido, I'd still be watching it. :P

rowen

07-19-2007, 03:33 PM

Sorry, I couldn't help but think of the following when I read your post:

Hi, this anime is all about saiyans, REAL SAIYANS. This anime is awesome. My name is Rowen and I can't stop thinking about saiyans. These guys are cool; and by cool, I mean totally sweet.

Facts:

1. Saiyans are mammals.
2. Saiyans fight ALL the time.
3. The purpose of the saiyan is to flip out and kill people.

Testimonial:

Saiyans can kill anyone they want! Saiyans cut off heads ALL the time and don't even think twice about it. These guys are so crazy and awesome that they flip out ALL the time. I heard that there was this saiyan who was eating at a diner. And when some dude dropped a spoon the saiyan killed the whole town. My friend Mark said that he saw a saiyan totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.

And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you don't believe that saiyans have REAL Ultimate Power you better get a life right now or they will chop your head off!!! It's an easy choice, if you ask me.

Saiyans are sooooooooooo sweet that I want to crap my pants. I can't believe it sometimes, but I feel it inside my heart. These guys are totally awesome and that's a fact. Saiyans are fast, smooth, cool, strong, powerful, and sweet. I can't wait to start yoga next year. I love saiyans with all of my body (including my pee pee).

Q and A:.

Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about saiyans?

A: Saiyans are the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they don't give a crap, but on the other hand, saiyans are very careful and precise.

Q: I heard that saiyans are always cruel or mean. What's their problem?

A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other mammals, saiyans can be mean OR totally awesome.

Q: What do saiyans do when they're not cutting off heads or flipping out?

A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab. (Ask Mark if you don't believe me.)

Look up real ultimate power if the above is unfamiliar :)

Busaiku

07-19-2007, 03:38 PM

While Dragonball Z still remains one of my favorite series of all time, I can still admit it that it's not that great a show, pretty bad even.
That said, I could probably never find the time to constantly rewatch the series.

Suwako Moriya

07-19-2007, 04:18 PM

How often do you guys watch DBZ in it's entirety?

I saw some of DBZ when I was younger, but never saw all of it. Thus I missed a few episodes of powering up. Based on what I saw of the series, I have no desire to watch it anymore. In short it's not the type of show for me. Thus I'd rather watch something else instead. Something that well I'd consider actually enjoyable.

something

07-19-2007, 04:30 PM

How often do you guys watch DBZ in it's entirety?I believe I speak for most people here: Never
Honestly, I think it's just a function of the natural limits of space, time, and human anatomy that watching DBZ in its entirety is not something that can be done "often" no matter how much you like it :sd:

TOMIMOTO

07-20-2007, 12:49 AM

You have to watch all the series in order. Dragon Ball, Dragonball Z, then Dragonball GT. Then you can call yourself a Dragonball Master. I did. haha.

Sailor Moon and DB started me on anime and they still hold a place in my heart but the DB series really aren't that good when you break it down. DBZ could have been done in 100 episodes not 291.

Akira Toriyama planned to end DBZ and Dragonball completely after the Freiza saga when goku went Super Saiyan. (remember there was only supposed to be one true super saiyan?.... right) But because of the success of the manga Akira was forced into making more.

I'll still watch it and it still has a place in my heart, but there really is so much more better anime out there.

HitokiriShadow

07-20-2007, 12:59 AM

How often do you guys watch DBZ in it's entirety?

I believe I speak for most people here:

Never

Yeah, I think most people have never seen it in its entirety. I saw a majority of what was shown on Cartoon Network, at least for the Freeza saga and up. I saw some episodes here and there of the stuff prior to that, but I never cared much to go back and watch them since it was pretty easy to figure out what happened. Of course, even if I saw everything that was shown on Cartoon Network, they were still missing some episodes and even what they showed was edited, so it was impossible to see DBZ 'in its entirety' on Cartoon Network.

I enjoyed DBZ back in the day on Cartoon Network, but I really don't have any desire to see any of it again. Well, maybe the last few episodes of the Cell Saga, but that's it and even that's iffy.

isamu

07-20-2007, 03:41 AM

Thanks for the replies :)

Y'know it's funny, over at the AnimeOnDvd.com forums, 99% of the replies to this same topic are people that HATE anything with Dragon Ball's name on it. It seems the younger people on their early to late 20's seem to have this "DBZ sucks" mentality and think they're too good for it or something. I am 34yrs old and have been watching anime for over 15 years! Starting with things like Macross, the original Gundam, Bubble Gum Crisis, Megazone23, all the way to things like Cowboy Bebop, Gungrave, Escaflowne etc. I have seen A LOT of shows, folks! You're not talking to an anime n00b here! I know my stuff.

Don't get me wrong, the above mentioned are FANTASTIC! But there's something strangely attractive about the Dragon Ball franchise. It's so over the top, so juvenile, so BLATENTLY one dimensional that I can't help but be shamelessly drawn to it. Maybe it's because at 34, I've gotten over my "I'm too cool to watch this kiddy shit. I need an anime with depth, with substance, something underground, extremely cool but not mega popular and mainstream" phase.

I've accepted that DBZ is a household name and is a mega franchise throughout the world. I just watch it with an open mind and watch it for what it is, a fun action series with lots of fights and over the top action scenes. I don't care that the plot isn't as deep as FMA, Gungrave or Evangelion. I just like to kick back and enjoy it even if it's just a bunch of mindless action and shit talking.

Fencedude

07-20-2007, 03:53 AM

The way I see it, I can get ALL of those things you mentioned from series that AREN'T 400 episodes long, with mediocre to bad animation most of the time

Now, I happen to own all of Sailor Moon (that was released in R1...) and think its better than it is generally regarded, but I also don't think its the greatest show ever, or even the greatest show OF ITS GENRE despite setting most of the standards for that genre.

Edit: AND FIX YOUR AVATAR ALREADY

JCDenton

07-20-2007, 08:10 AM

I sincerely hope that the OP here is a sick, demented joke. DBZ is horrible, I remember trying to watch the Freiza saga when I was 11 or 12, and being bored to tears by the stupidity and monotony of it. I think I'll take my R.O.D. TV instead. Even if you want a show from a purely action-based point of view, there are so many better choices out there. Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Gundam, Noir, Najica, Mezzo, Daphne, Burst Angel, Full Metal Panic, any of them are better, try something different.

Vicserr

07-20-2007, 08:37 AM

Well, for me, Mazinger Z is the greatest thing ever (as it's the greatest example and the pioneer of Super Robot anime), but I definately know not everybody will share my view.

* The Mecha boom of the 70's and 80's is long gone
* every year dozens of new anime are released
* every year there're new fans (hopefully) with their own gateway shows. and will consider those shows as the greatest thing since sliced bread, it's human nature :sd:

And we all know most fans hate longer than 20-something eps shows. I shudder to think if someone pops ups and say that Doaremon is the greatest anime ever :P

And I watched some DBZ when it was running in CN and on the local Telemundo network channel(Spanish), it was something to pass the time, nothing more, nothing less in my experience.

Takato

07-20-2007, 09:34 AM

Hi guys :)

I can honestly declare, that DBZ is now my favorite anime series EVER!!!I have just four words for you: Over-rated, read the manga.

Akira Toriyama planned to end DBZ and Dragonball completely after the Freiza saga when goku went Super Saiyan. (remember there was only supposed to be one true super saiyan?.... right) But because of the success of the manga Akira was forced into making more. Ok, I get that Toriyama was "forced" to continue the manga, but what I don't get is how could he be forced? I mean, it's not like the manga isn't his or something. Did someone put a gun up to his head or something? :roll: You don't see fans putting a gun up to Rowling's head and "forcing" her to continue Harry Potter just because she's getting filthy rich off of the Deathly Hallows. Does this sort of thing normally happen in the manga industry? Or is this just one of those fan rumors? As far as I know, Toriyma is the only manga author I've ever heard of who was "forced" to continue writing a series he obviously doesn't want to.

Isuzu Inugami

07-20-2007, 11:20 AM

Ok, I get that Toriyama was "forced" to continue the manga, but what I don't get is how could he be forced? I mean, it's not like the manga isn't his or something. Did someone put a gun up to his head or something?

Arthur Conan Doyle was "forced" to continue writing Sherlock Holmes stories, even after he went so far as to kill Holmes off. Eventually the constant hounding of fans and editors gets to you, not to mention that great motivator, your creditors....

:roll: You don't see fans putting a gun up to Rowling's head and "forcing" her to continue Harry Potter just because she's getting filthy rich off of the Deathly Hallows.

Oh, she will. Well, no gun (I hope), but people will be pestering her for more before long.

Speaking of which, only twelve hours to Potterdämmerung!

rowen

07-20-2007, 11:29 AM

roastedpekingduck

07-20-2007, 11:43 AM

Suwako Moriya

07-20-2007, 12:31 PM

Everyone has their own specific taste, and some shows just happen to strike their fancy.

It all boils down to what you desire out of a show. For some DBZ has those awesome action packed battles. For others DBZ has those lame dragged out battles. For some the characters are amazingly powerful. For others the power level game is boring. So on and so forth.

StudioZEL

07-20-2007, 07:35 PM

I sincerely hope that the OP here is a sick, demented joke.
That's a little mean. :sd: Everyone has their own specific taste, and some shows just happen to strike their fancy. I've seen some posters with strange choices as their favorite shows, and I don't think they mean it as "sick, demented jokes." :P

True. Detective Conan is my favorite anime ever, but I recognize that it's far from being the same quality as the KyoAni works or Evangelion or Macross Plus etc. Detective Conan just tickles my fancy the right way. ^^;

Thanatos

07-20-2007, 11:43 PM

Hey, Izzy, don't mind all the vicious haters in this thread: they're just formed opposite identities within their own subculture because they cannot cope with the cognitive dissonance of liking something that boys ages 4-12 like as well. ^_^

Without a doubt, only DBZ is worthy of the title "GREATEST"

GrateSaiyaman

07-21-2007, 05:13 AM

As much as DBZ is one of my favorite shows. The humor is funny as hell and I like the character designs. It's kind of nice to see something that's about good and evil that's pretty naive but not totally stupid.
Like I mentioned before . . . the one bitch I ever had was the assmouthing that would take about an episode and a half, culminating in a short little fight to find out that they gotta admit they were holding back and just bitchslapping each other. THEN they'd start all over again for yet another episode. I can understand the appeal.
That is not great anime.

It's fun, it's good, it's, (forgive my age), even kind of cool but not great.
It's still one of my favorites.

:roll:

Mateo_home

07-21-2007, 10:06 AM

Akira Toriyama planned to end DBZ and Dragonball completely after the Freiza saga when goku went Super Saiyan. (remember there was only supposed to be one true super saiyan?.... right) But because of the success of the manga Akira was forced into making more.

I guess that's just how it is in anime. If you end a series while it's still popular, the fans start begging for more only so they can complain about how long and stretched out it became (like InuYasha).

I have to admit, Dragonball is one of the most memorable anime, it has that nostalgic feel and it will have it's place in history. There's also not one anime fan who hasn't heard of Dragonball, except maybe newcomers. But is it the greatest anime ever? I don't think so. I'd rather watch shonen fighting with magical girls *cough* Nanoha StrikerS *cough*. It's a subjective statement after all.

Garasharp K7

07-21-2007, 11:22 AM

I sincerely hope that the OP here is a sick, demented joke.

Nope, this is a sick, demented joke. (or at least a very bad one)
Q: How many Dragon Ball Z characters does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Just one, but it takes him five episodes to do it.

Okay, I'm sorry. No really, I'm very sorry for that. I'll get me coat... :sd:

I've only seen a couple episodes of the show years ago, and while it wasn't terrible, it didn't grab me that much. All I can remember was these two guys squaring off for a battle - though they never actually fought - with various stunned onlookers at the sidelines, and that was pretty much it. From what I've read here and other sites over the years, I reckon I haven't missed much. :)
That said, if it ever turned up on tv here I'd still give it another look.

jaredslogin

07-21-2007, 03:26 PM

Foaming at the mouth aside, DBZ is the greatest anime around -- not for it's repetitiveness, or its predictability (spirit bomb trumps EVERYTHING), but for the personal relationship and attachment that grows between you and each of its characters. This anime spans multiple generations and, i believe, if it really was as shitty as all of you dbz-hating ass-clowns say it is, then it wouldn't have gone on for 153 episodes in Dragon Ball, 276 in Dragon Ball z, and, while it was a piece of shit: 64 in DBGT. Toriyama-san is a genius and deserves to be looked up to for his comedic talent, his creativity, and his drawing ability. I really wish that alot of the people here would just watch a good handful of episodes before shunning it in favor of some obscure piece of garbage that is, most likely, generically based upon robots or something. As for watching the series all the way thru, i don't think i've ever really sat down and watched every single episode after another (even with taking breaks) -- i mean, the entire series is roughly 92 hours counting all episodes. It is a great manga/anime and i think that it's fantastic that you have every episode now, hehe.

pachinko parlor

07-21-2007, 03:49 PM

Longevity has nothing to do with the quality of a show. I mean a show like "According to Jim" is at 145 episodes and counting while infinately funnier shows like Arrested development get the ax. Unless of course James Belushi really is a comdeic genious and I'm just not getting it. :P

Its great that you love DBZ, heck I used to love it way back when. But back then I was comparing it to US made cartoons. Now that I have seen a great deal of anime DBZ just doesn't hold up for me. I'm sure a lot of the posters here are of the same mind set. I don't think they're hating or being asshats.

Now people who don't like shows like Nadesico or Cowboy bebop, those would be my examples of "asshats."

btw I'm just kidding about the last part :)

Mostly :>

jaredslogin

07-21-2007, 04:10 PM

o god. good and bad >.<
It's terrific you like Cowboy bebop, that was a great show -- should have gone on longer.
the one thing i hate though is people who hate according to jim. That show is one of my favorites and i dare anyone to find an episode that truly isn't funny. If more people would watch the damned show and stop bitching, i think we'd have fewer arguements in the world. As for arrested development, i don't know what happened there, it seemed like it was popular (i've only seen about 4 episodes - they were good but it really didn't catch my eye).

Suwako Moriya

07-21-2007, 04:54 PM

This anime spans multiple generations and, i believe, if it really was as shitty as all of you dbz-hating ass-clowns say it is, then it wouldn't have gone on for 153 episodes in Dragon Ball, 276 in Dragon Ball z, and, while it was a piece of shit: 64 in DBGT.

Just because a show is long and popular does not mean any of us have to like it or anything along those lines. All it means is the show was successful enough to be long. Regardless of length it's up to each individual to decide if s/he likes a show or not. Clearly some do like DBZ and some don't. Either choice is fine by me. Too bad some on both sides would rather whine about people making the other choice.

I really wish that alot of the people here would just watch a good handful of episodes before shunning it in favor of some obscure piece of garbage that is, most likely, generically based upon robots or something.

Okay I can understand asking people to give the show an actual chance. Which for the record I did. If I don't want to give a show a chance, I don't says things like "I don't like it" because I can't, but rather I simply state that it doesn't interest me and be done with it. However you're not going to motivate people by using the bash to promote strategy. Especially by bashing stuff that they may like themselves.

pachinko parlor

07-21-2007, 06:32 PM

I thought it was painfully obvious that the last part of my post was in jest.

That's what I get for feeding a troll :D Well I'll let others continue feeding your want for attention. I did my part :)

GrateSaiyaman

07-21-2007, 08:44 PM

I thought it was painfully obvious that the last part of my post was in jest.

That's what I get for feeding a troll :D Well I'll let others continue feeding your want for attention. I did my part :)

I guess we're all suckers for a charity case . . .

:D :D :D

Although I probably shouldn't be saying such things.
:blush:

jaredslogin

07-21-2007, 08:44 PM

Takato

07-22-2007, 03:15 PM

meh, i don't want attention, i just want the dbz hatred to stop. it was not necessarily and completely in this forum that i had heard so much negativity about the show, however, at the moment, this is my only means of conveyance of my opinion and possible persuasion of others. In hindsight, i will admit, for persuasion i shouldn't have insulted, but too late for that now i guess >____>And so what if people hate DBZ? Last I checked there was no law that stated that all people had to like DBZ. People have just as much right to hate DBZ as you do to like it. If everybody liked the exact same things you did, what would be the point in having a message board in the first place? Even if you find other DBZ fans they're not going to necessarily have the same opinion as you or even like the show to the same degree as you do. I just never understood why some fans feel like they have to go on some holy crusade to convert everyone to liking the same exact things they do and if you dare disagree with them, they suddenly act like you're persecuting them. My favorite anime of all time is FMA. I think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread even, but I have some friends who don't care about the series and some who do like it but not as much as I do. However, just because I may be an obsessive FMA fanboy doesn't mean I suddenly expect everybody in the world to like it. You asked for our opinion of what we thought of DBZ. We gave it to you and if you don't like the answer we gave just because it's different from your opinion, that's your problem, not ours. And I fail to see how you think there is "so much negativity" towards the show at the moment when the DBZ boxsets are currently the highest selling anime DVD of the year and we have an excessively long thread in the R1 forum where tons of fans right here at this site are criticizing Funi for destroying a show they like with their widescreen cropping. :roll:

isamu

07-23-2007, 12:48 AM

My favorite anime of all time is FMA. I think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread even

Hi. I am thinking of getting into FMA. But the VERY small handful of episodes I watched on CN didn;t do anything for me. Can you tell me what it is that you like about the show? And would you recommend it to someone like me?

MagicBox

07-23-2007, 06:06 PM

Wow, I just read through this and the "How far would you go to meet Toriyama?" thread and I never realized how much Akira Toriyama and the DragonBall franchise were hated among anime/manga fans. I kinda feel sorry for the man. I didn't realize his art style was so despised. Personally, I find it extremely appealing, but I guess that's just me.

Anyway, do I like Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z? Of course I do; it's in my top five favorite anime/manga of all time. Would I say it's the greatest series ever? Not even if you paid me. Even hardcore fans of the series have to admit that the anime has flaws that cannot be overlooked. The anime has terrible pacing (Multiple years can pass in one episode, but a period of five minutes takes up about ten full episodes of boring material.), the main cast is way too big (which results in dozens of under-developed supporting characters getting thrown to the sidelines in favor of four or five major characters), and parts of the series are just too unrealistic, even when considering the wacky world the story's set in.

The series has many problems, and I can easily see why it's not every viewer's cup of tea. With that said, though, it's not nearly as bad as some poeple make it out to be. Even when looking at the anime alone, there are some great parts. The original Japanese version has to have one of the most talented voice casts in the history of animation. It's full of so many amazing voice veterans, and each unique voice, mixed with top-notch acting, makes almost every character instantly likeable. The original musical score is also worth noting; it captures the silliness and danger of the DragonBall world perfectly.

Perhaps the main reason I love the series, though, is the characters. Each main character is just oozing with personality, and each of their character quirks, flaws, speech patterns, and perspective on life just make them so charming; they're very easy to care about and root for, Goku being a great example of this. It's true that some characters, like Piccolo, just can't be developed anymore and get less-interesting as the show progresses, but they're still easy to care for. To me, it's not just a series about mindless fighting. In my opinion, it's the characters that truly make the series interesting, and without interesting personalities and a 100% focus on fighting, you'd have..... Dragon Ball GT. :P

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not even close to being the best series ever made, but it doesn't deserve the "bottom-of-the-barrel-trash" reputation that it currently seems to have among most viewers.

If you want to get into the series, the anime isn't the best way to do so. The manga truly is the best way to view the story; the pacing is much, much better and there isn't any of the boring filler that the franchise is so hated for. The anime still is worth watching, though, mainly for the awesome music and great voice cast.

Isamu, I really think you're giving the series too much credit for calling it the best. You're just saying that because it's your favorite. Detective Conan's my favorite anime, but I know it's not the best. Just wanted to tell you that favorites =/= best.

it wouldn't have gone on for 153 episodes in Dragon Ball, 276 in Dragon Ball z, and, while it was a piece of shit: 64 in DBGT.
Dragon Ball Z is 291 episodes, not 276.

...

Wow, that made me sound like a huge nerd. :sd:

HellKorn

07-23-2007, 07:00 PM

Some people cling to what they first see/read in a medium and they'll never change their favorites, no matter what else they come across. We have a prime example of one right here. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but having a variety and change shouldn't necessarily hurt a person...

it wouldn't have gone on for 153 episodes in Dragon Ball, 276 in Dragon Ball z, and, while it was a piece of shit: 64 in DBGT.
Dragon Ball Z is 291 episodes, not 276.

...

Wow, that made me sound like a huge nerd. :sd:

You are among brethren.

plaidwolf

07-24-2007, 06:11 AM

...it's just a bunch of mindless action and shit talking.

This is exactly why most of us wouldn't say it's the best anime ever and watch it in its entirety :)

Hey, I'm a DBZ fan too but I'm being honest, not trying to pick on you.

I have heard it referred to as "Drag-On Brawl Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz"......what other show spends 24 minutes to cover 2-3 minutes of action?

Takato

07-24-2007, 08:50 AM

I have heard it referred to as "Drag-On Brawl Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz"......what other show spends 24 minutes to cover 2-3 minutes of action?

Naruto had about a year's worth of filler-ins if that counts....

Lumberjack

07-24-2007, 08:56 AM

Chuplayer

07-24-2007, 09:14 AM

I used to like it back in the day. But I just got fed up after the Freeza arc. It really should have ended there, but they just kept it going with the same things happening over and over again.

The main thing that really irked me past the Freeza/Namek arc is that death was treated so differently. Goku tried not to kill anybody up to and including the Freeza/Namek arc, and then as soon as the next arc starts, he kills somebody and is almost happy about it. He definitely doesn't give it a second thought.

Takato

07-24-2007, 09:33 AM

Isamu, I really think you're giving the series too much credit for calling it the best. You're just saying that because it's your favorite. Detective Conan's my favorite anime, but I know it's not the best. Just wanted to tell you that favorites =/= best.

Someone please explain this concept to me because maybe it's just me but I never quite got it. Why can't your favorites be the best? I mean, when people say something is the best, it's merely their opinion anyway, so I don't see why there's some major difference between most favorite and best. The only real difference I can see is best is more like the majority opinion about a show but even then not everybody will agree with what the majority opinion is about the "best" and start ranting about how over-rated it is.

Are people trying to be apologetic about their favorite shows' flaws by saying it's not the best or something? I just don't get it. It'd be like me saying FMA is my favorite anime, but I don't think it's the best because it doesn't meet everyone's different expectations of what they think the best is, so just ignore it and move on. I mean, I understand sometimes people have guilty pleasures, but I just never got why favorites and what people consider to be the "best" can't be the same just because it has flaws when "best" is merely what the majority of people think is their favorite.

StudioZEL

07-24-2007, 01:04 PM

Someone please explain this concept to me because maybe it's just me but I never quite got it. Why can't your favorites be the best? I mean, when people say something is the best, it's merely their opinion anyway, so I don't see why there's some major difference between most favorite and best. The only real difference I can see is best is more like the majority opinion about a show but even then not everybody will agree with what the majority opinion is about the "best" and start ranting about how over-rated it is.

Are people trying to be apologetic about their favorite shows' flaws by saying it's not the best or something? I just don't get it. It'd be like me saying FMA is my favorite anime, but I don't think it's the best because it doesn't meet everyone's different expectations of what they think the best is, so just ignore it and move on. I mean, I understand sometimes people have guilty pleasures, but I just never got why favorites and what people consider to be the "best" can't be the same just because it has flaws when "best" is merely what the majority of people think is their favorite.

Detective Conan is also my favorite anime, so I'll explain this phenomenon from my perspective. For me there are two different types of shows, my favorite shows and the best shows I've seen. The different for me lies in replay value. There's a lot of amazing shows that are the best when it comes to story, animation, characters, etc. (Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Macross Plus, Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop etc.) but they don't always instill the desire for me to watch them over and over and over.

Some shows however (like my fav Detective Conan), despite their lower production values and overall lack of quality when compaired to classics like the ones listed above, just click with me. As an objective viewer I can recognize that it doesn't meet the technical merits of other shows, but I enjoy watching them so much that I get more excited for this shows than I do for others (for me, Marmalade Boy also falls into this category). Whatever it is these shows do, they just push all my particular buttons the right way. I love Cowboy Bebop, but I don't think I could take 400+ episodes of it if they were made. But Conan could go on virtually forever and I'd still love it (after 7 years I think it's safe to say that my fandom isn't going anywhere).

It's for these reasons that, whenever my friends ask me what my favorite shows are, I always ask them in return "Do you want to know my favorite shows, or the best shows I've ever seen?" Makes a world of difference sometimes.

To expound, let me post my personal list of the best shows I've ever seen.

1) Cowboy Bebop
2) The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
3) The Vision of Escaflowne
4) Neon Genesis Evangelion
5) Gungrave
6) Giant Robo
7) Full Metal Panic: The Second Raid
8) Kanon 2K6
9) Gankutsuou
10) Macross Plus

Now I'll list my top 10 Favorite shows ever.

1) Detective Conan
2) The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya
3) Marmalade Boy
4) Rurouni Kenshin (1-62, not beyond)
5) Maison Ikkoku
6) Tenchi Muyo OVA (1-13)
7) Cardcaptor Sakura
8) Maho Tsukai Tai
9) Cowboy Bebop
10) Neon Genesis Evangelion

A couple overlap, but notice how a lot of these shows are "fun" shows that no one in their right mind would list as "the best anime" ever or even close to it. They're just the shows that I have so much fun watching I tend to watch them over and over and over again, thus my favorites.

My 2 cents.

Mazinkaizer

07-24-2007, 02:17 PM

You have to watch all the series in order. Dragon Ball, Dragonball Z, then Dragonball GT. Then you can call yourself a Dragonball Master. I did. haha.

I also did so (took more 3 months to watch them :sd: ) but i wouldn't call myself a DB master at all. I would simply say that DB is a super overrated show !! and 1 of the most ridiculous ones without a strong story or plot (well except the original DB which was ok for me).

The only thing i liked about the DB Saga is the DB's & DBZ's soundtrack (GT's didn't impress me)! being a die hard fan of Shinuske Kikuchi plus all the OPs/EDs. They were very nice and probably the only thing I'll remember about the whole DB saga :>

It really made me sad that such show is so hyped when they are other works such as Reiji Matsumoto's & Osamu Desaki's are not even known to some anime fans :sigh:

Well at the end i believe that it's a matter of opinions and tastes and everyone is free to like or dislike whatever he/she wants :)

Legion

07-24-2007, 04:15 PM

Fencedude

07-24-2007, 06:10 PM

Jimmie M

07-24-2007, 07:16 PM

Suwako Moriya

07-24-2007, 08:23 PM

My favorite anime is Nanoha, is it, objectively, the "Best" anime ever made? Of course not, that'd be ridiculous.

On that note I can say this much. I don't really have an exact favorite. Sure there are series like Nanoha, Rozen Maiden, Shrine of the Morning Mist, Hidamari Sketch, Moonphase, My HiME, etc that I am rather fond of, but exact rankings never work for me. Simply because I find when I try to make such a post I keep changing the order in the said post. In general I'm too indecisive.

As for the term "best", I personally feel deciding on a best anime is well impossible. Mainly because first you have the problem of deciding who has the authority to determine what the best anime is. Second you then have the problem of what the heck criteria for determining that should be. Third and finally is the fact with new anime constantly being made well that creates its own problem.

So for that reason I find it much easier to simply state that I like or in some cases love a series. Although the way I'll word it will obviously depend on the series in question, my mood and other factors. Like the position of the stars or maybe the moon. I can't really remember to be honest.

isamu

07-24-2007, 08:57 PM

Someone please explain this concept to me because maybe it's just me but I never quite got it. Why can't your favorites be the best? I mean, when people say something is the best, it's merely their opinion anyway, so I don't see why there's some major difference between most favorite and best. The only real difference I can see is best is more like the majority opinion about a show but even then not everybody will agree with what the majority opinion is about the "best" and start ranting about how over-rated it is.

Are people trying to be apologetic about their favorite shows' flaws by saying it's not the best or something? I just don't get it. It'd be like me saying FMA is my favorite anime, but I don't think it's the best because it doesn't meet everyone's different expectations of what they think the best is, so just ignore it and move on. I mean, I understand sometimes people have guilty pleasures, but I just never got why favorites and what people consider to be the "best" can't be the same just because it has flaws when "best" is merely what the majority of people think is their favorite.

Detective Conan is also my favorite anime, so I'll explain this phenomenon from my perspective. For me there are two different types of shows, my favorite shows and the best shows I've seen. The different for me lies in replay value. There's a lot of amazing shows that are the best when it comes to story, animation, characters, etc. (Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Macross Plus, Escaflowne, Cowboy Bebop etc.) but they don't always instill the desire for me to watch them over and over and over.

Some shows however (like my fav Detective Conan), despite their lower production values and overall lack of quality when compaired to classics like the ones listed above, just click with me. As an objective viewer I can recognize that it doesn't meet the technical merits of other shows, but I enjoy watching them so much that I get more excited for this shows than I do for others (for me, Marmalade Boy also falls into this category). Whatever it is these shows do, they just push all my particular buttons the right way. I love Cowboy Bebop, but I don't think I could take 400+ episodes of it if they were made. But Conan could go on virtually forever and I'd still love it (after 7 years I think it's safe to say that my fandom isn't going anywhere).

It's for these reasons that, whenever my friends ask me what my favorite shows are, I always ask them in return "Do you want to know my favorite shows, or the best shows I've ever seen?" Makes a world of difference sometimes.

Excellent excellent post Zel. Couldn't have said it any better than that :)

Takato

07-24-2007, 09:41 PM

Its the difference between a subjective liking and objective quality.

My favorite anime is Nanoha, is it, objectively, the "Best" anime ever made? Of course not, that'd be ridiculous.

Doesn't stop it from being my FAVORITE though.

Why is this a hard concept?
Because what someone defines as "quality" is a subjective opinion. One person might find Eva to be a deep and profound work of art. Another person might think it's a pretentious whiny emo-fest. In such a situation, who's viewing it through subjective liking and who's viewing it through objective quality? Another example is somebody might think Romeo and Juliet is a literary masterpiece that should be held above all else. I might recognize Romeo and Juliet's importance in literary history, but I sure as hell aren't going to vote for it as the best play of all time when the first scene puts me to sleep. Ultimately what it all comes down to is personal opinions, so to me saying that something that's your favorite can't be the best because it's not "objective quality" is contradictory, because what defines "quality" is a subjective opinion in the first place.

The Great Bear

07-24-2007, 10:38 PM

I think you might be missing the point that Fencedude was making. While all judgments of works made by people are, of course, subjective, that does not mean that there are not certain standards that people can agree, in principle, represent "better" versus "worse."

I'll give an example. Personally, I don't really like the show Wolf's Rain. It depresses the hell out of me. At other times, it seems too wrapped up in its own bullshit. It's definitely not on my top 25 list.

But I will not hesistate to call it a "good" show. It has an interesting story to tell, the performances (which I know mainly in English, but I've heard the Japanese track for one volume as well) are good, there are times when it is moving, and overall it has what I would consider, objectively, a fairly high level of quality in the three main things: story, artwork, and characterization.

Do I like it? No, not really. Is it good? Yes, it is.

So, it's a bit much to call something "the best" when very few people, or hardly anyone, is going to agree with that judgment. While you are free to say it, you can expect a lot of negative responses in return.

Maybe the title of this thread should be "Thoughts On DBZ-Why It's My All-Time Favorite Anime Series". That seems more accurate IMO based on what the OP wrote in the root post.

Had this been the title of the thread, there would probably have not been nearly as many negative posts. People would have seen that, said "okay," and moved on, or posted if they felt the need to register their opinion.

Chuplayer

07-24-2007, 11:08 PM

The main thing that really irked me past the Freeza/Namek arc is that death was treated so differently. Goku tried not to kill anybody up to and including the Freeza/Namek arc, and then as soon as the next arc starts, he kills somebody and is almost happy about it. He definitely doesn't give it a second thought.
I think everything that went down on Namek taught Goku that he can't be so lenient any more, not when the stakes get as high as they did on Namek. To continue to be that way would almost be irresponsible.

That said, I'm having trouble remembering which character you're reffering to that Goku killed.

I can see your point, but it still irked me. Goku was my hero! He was strong yet gentle. He took no pleasure in killing Freeza. He gave Freeza chance after chance after chance. It might be strange that it was DBZ that did this, but the Namek arc was one of the few times I really got emotionally involved in a story. Be it a movie or a book or a TV show or whatever. I felt excited when the bad guys were getting beaten up. I felt crushed when the good guys died. I felt grossed out when Ginyu shoved his hand through his own chest. I felt for Gohan when he left the spaceship to take up the fight after his dad had to sit out for a while even though he knew it could kill him, and he was so young! And then I felt like a dick when I realized I shouldn't have felt so good that Freeza got cut into pieces. Finally, I felt like there was a hole in my soul when Goku had to kill Freeza. Goku didn't kill people. He was so forgiving, and he had to do that.

And I can't remember what character it was either. It might have been during the Majin Buu saga. I forget.

neo-pactio

07-25-2007, 07:27 AM

I haven't watched much of DBZ, and so far, it's not that great. The original Dragon Ball series seems interesting to try, but the true horror is GT. To me, it was a waste of Toei's time and money.

brycec1701

07-25-2007, 10:50 AM

...and people say Naruto is bad??

compared to DBZ.....

ummm...

I'll take the Naruto fillers over DBZ

isamu

07-25-2007, 11:51 AM

...and people say Naruto is bad??

compared to DBZ.....

ummm...

I'll take the Naruto fillers over DBZ

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What are you smokin brah? *THIS SCENE ALONE* (http://youtube.com/watch?v=-98yfhE2C6s) shits all over anything Naruto has done LOLOLO :>

Fencedude

07-25-2007, 11:55 AM

PhilipReuben

07-25-2007, 02:08 PM

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Note for future reference: People only write things like this when they're making fun of people who write things like this. Hopefully this knowledge will help you avoid making a fool of yourself.

Suwako Moriya

07-25-2007, 02:41 PM

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What are you smokin brah? *THIS SCENE ALONE* (http://youtube.com/watch?v=-98yfhE2C6s) shits all over anything Naruto has done LOLOLO :>

1. If you're challenging the statement of Naruto fillers vs DBZ then perhaps you should use a scene from DBZ instead of DBGT. Also a scene with "Spanish Subtitles" is not that useful for some. As for what scene. Err I'm not a worshipper of DBZ so ask someone else.

2. To be honest I have no idea how good/bad the large string of Naruto fillers actually is because my motivation to suffer err I mean watch more of Naruto ended a long time ago.

3. I suppose if that type of scene would appeal to some because I've seen the joke in other forms. However in general I demand a refund. :sd: :P Seriously I don't know or care how it compares to Naruto fillers, but on its own it was meh. Then again to be fair that type of scene is partially dependent on how much one cares about the cast in question. A fan of DB may smile, but one who is not will only shake his. One of the situational type things perhaps.

Takato

07-25-2007, 03:21 PM

roastedpekingduck

07-25-2007, 03:22 PM

Hentai? :P

CrazyAsano

07-25-2007, 07:10 PM

Happiness.

isamu

07-26-2007, 12:56 AM

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What are you smokin brah? *THIS SCENE ALONE* (http://youtube.com/watch?v=-98yfhE2C6s) shits all over anything Naruto has done LOLOLO :> I love how you start whining about people's negative attitude towards DBZ only to turn around and start showing the same exact kind of negative attitude you excuse others of having towards Naruto. What's a word that starts with the letter h that describes this? :roll:

WHOAH, calm down pilgram! I was just having a little fun. You're taking my comments and this thread waaaaaaay too seriously! I'll probably think Naruto is better than DBZ once I sit down and watch it, who knows? My opinion on favorite anime change like....everyday :D