Lain episode by episode discussion

[zaldar]

Ok Going to start a lain episode by episode discussion! Plan so far is to watch one episode a week and discuss it as in depthly as possible. Bringing in other resources as people see fit. As the week begins on Sunday we will be starting the first episode discussion on August 12th. That doesn't mean of course that you have to watch the episode on August 12 just it would be recommended that you don't read the thread until you have watched the episode for that week.

I have watched the entire series before but some of the people who will be participating will most likely have not so lets keep spoilers to a minimum or hide them. Let the philosophical discussions begin!

[zaldar]

Well I will start I guess. Just finished the first episode and boy does the show start off with a bang!

We get a girl that kills herself and might not be dead, another girl that kills herself and Lain reliving or imagining the experience and looks of horror and joy on the girl that is killing herself and Lain perhaps receiving some sort of messages from the other side.

Several things I liked in this episode, first the overall feel of disconnectedness in the artwork as well as the story. For example on the train ride and for many parts of the episode most of the sound comes from humming power lines. The last words of the girl before she kills herself we don't hear we see typed and when Lain is asking her Dad for a new computer he seems more intent on his own online activities than really talking to his daughter. Then we have lain looking at people and seeing them out of focus watching her own shadow and seeing clouds in it (or perhaps stars aka universe...thematicily important (shrug)). Seeing messages in the school work on the board and having smoke come out of her fingers. Having seen this before I was looking for different things but I do remember when I saw it for the first time thinking...well weird was certainly an apt title for this...

I have some thoughts on the opening credit sequence but they would be spoilers so I'll wait. The end credit sequence always struck me as a little risque since I suppose Lain is only "12". When does Jr. High start in Japan?

Anyway what did everyone else think...please don't leave me to talk to myself ;)

[sonicjam628]

layer 01: Weird

The opening of Lain is great, I like the song, and the images really caught my attention the first time I veiwed it.

For this episode I saw Lain as a girl who seems out of touch with reality and seems to see things no one else sees. What also caught my attention after veiwing this episode is the way the shadows of buildings and the poles are. They don't seem normal and to me I think it is a reflection of another world, in this case I guess the wired world.

Other things that caught my attention was Lain's family. The mother seems wierd, and doesn't talk for this episode. The father seems interested in computers( and boy was that a lot of computers), and the sister, Mika, seems to be normal for now. And Lain in bear pjs? She must really like bears.

It's hard to tell were the series will go from here, but it seems like Lain will try to get into the Wired, because of Chisa? Maybe Lain sees things that other people can't because maybe the real world and the wired are connected, like Lain's father said. But what is the wired? It seems like some kind of alternate world inside the computers( or navis or whatever)

Anyway, to me this was an interesting first episode, and it really caught my attention, even if it was a little slow paced at times.

[zaldar]

Yeah the bear pjs struck me as well...she is a very young acting sixth grader. As for your questions I know the answers but I will refrain...

[Lain Of The Net]

First ...it is really hard to talk about SEL without spoilers but I will try.

I like to think that the first episode establishes that Lain sees and perceives the world differently than most. She sees patterns in shadows. She sees patterns in power lines. She is sensitive to noise and is comfy in old familiar well worn clothes. She seems to have some characteristics of a person with Aspergers but I think the plain fact is that she is just aware on different levels. I don't think she is mentally ill but is "wired differently" than most people. Such people are often lonely.

She has a uncaring mother, a distracted father and her sister, Mika, gets jealous very easily. She has few friends and her social skills are limited. She does make a connection with Chisa but that is via Navi and with a sorta "dead" person. She has a conversation with Chisa that is more like a messenger conversation as opposed to emails the episode talked about.

She also perceives time differently and seems to jump around a bit. She is sensitive to the fact that, like Chisa, others are crossing over as well. I don't think she understands at this point where they are crossing to, or why, but her sensitivity seems to have increased from the moment she logged on to her Navi.

Favorite Clue on blackboard: "Mother was home, She was cooking." Really?

[zaldar]

Hmm mother was home she was cooking...that was the english they were learning going to have to look for that again. Not sure if she percieves time differently and do we know that the messanger disscussions we saw were between Lain and Chisa I just thought they were random conversations....

[Lain Of The Net]

Her Navi said it had a message from Chisa. Lain opens it and the conversation starts. The messages are either from Chisa talking to the only living person around not too freaked to answer back or someone claiming to be Chisa. I often thought Chisa was the hook to get Lain online and the conversation could be with Eiri.

[zaldar]

hmm that is possible. I had never thought she might have answered back but she did say there was a friend she wanted to talk to. I'm thinking to lineraly since we see these before she gets the first message. I just assumed they were with someone else talking to her other than lain, as she does seem to have some idea of what is going on (word at school has that it is a hoax) but then that could just be through still being "around".

Did you interpret it that she really saw the other girl being killed or just imagined it...and what about the smoke coming out of her hands in class never figured out what that was about.

[Buster Blader 126]

When I watched episode 1 four weeks ago, it seemed evident to me that even in the beginning, Lain showed signs of isolation. With only one friend (really, Alice seemed like the only true friend out of the bunch) and a rather non-communicative family, I can picture Lain digging herself deeper and deeper into the Wired.

Two things that I'm curious about at the moment are the silent quotes/phrases you see on the screen, and the humming of the wires. Is there a (non-spoilerish) explanation for them?

[roastedpekingduck]

I thought the silent quotes where just, "Time to think, dumbass." moments. :sd:

[Lain Of The Net]

When I watched episode 1 four weeks ago, it seemed evident to me that even in the beginning, Lain showed signs of isolation. With only one friend (really, Alice seemed like the only true friend out of the bunch) and a rather non-communicative family, I can picture Lain digging herself deeper and deeper into the Wired.

Two things that I'm curious about at the moment are the silent quotes/phrases you see on the screen, and the humming of the wires. Is there a (non-spoilerish) explanation for them?

For sure I see Alice as her most consistant and best friend from day one.

Concerning smoking fingers and other weirdness:

August 5th at Otakon 2000 (http://www.cjas.org/~leng/o2klain.htm)

The link above is to a panel discussion involving Yasuyuki Ueda and Yoshitoshi ABe. Some of the things that were talked about relate to Episode 1 - and it is kinda humorous. Sometimes we SEL fans take it all too seriously.

And now I have a new TV to set up. :P

[zaldar]

interesting. So it basicly was just for effect and to show a difference in her viewing of reality.

I wouldn't read this interview by the way if you haven't seen all of the anime. It did explain the ending pretty well though, interesting stuff.

[zaldar]

so what did everyone think of these little videos? I found them interesting not sure if they have any meaning or not. Odd to think of my mouth as a device.

[sonicjam628]

The first time I saw the devices I thought they were ok. But I still dont know what purpose they have, besides informing the viewer of the next episode title.

And on another note, I'll have my thoughts on episode 2 later today after I rewatch it again.

[sonicjam628]

Okay after watching the second episode again, I still do not see why the lady at Cyberia was wearing a gas mask when she gave that guy the Accela. ( the drug)

Also, what kind of club is Cyberia? I mean there seems like a lot of kids in there... Maybe Cyberia is connected to the wired?

There also appears to be another Lain.

Overall Lain still captures my interest.

[Lain Of The Net]

Okay after watching the second episode again, I still do not see why the lady at Cyberia was wearing a gas mask when she gave that guy the Accela. ( the drug)

Also, what kind of club is Cyberia? I mean there seems like a lot of kids in there... Maybe Cyberia is connected to the wired?

There also appears to be another Lain.


I was always under the impression there are noxious things in the air that she is protecting herself against. Not sure though. Maybe she doesn't want her face clearly seen on camera making a dubious transaction.

Yes I feel Cyberia is directly connected to the Wired.

Another Lain. Oh yes. One of the themes is the sense of self and how hard it can be to hold on to that.

Accela. I had a thought when I watched it. The kid is really not interested in whatever the other "Lain" represents. In a sense he is using Accela to stay connected to the real world. Sometimes today we use medications and drugs to escape reality - will we use drugs in the future to stay connected to reality?

[zaldar]

Pan is this the first time you have seen the show? If so welcome to one of the most interesting animes!

I love episode two. We have the drug, the club, and the second lain (maybe). The discussions on the internet now the ones with the strange background and words only now I'm not sure who they are between anymore. Are they between lain and someone else? Are here friends asking her why she doesn't come to the club both on the phone and on the internet or is the one on the internet from someone else?

I also liked how they showed the potential addictive quality of the internet, I can certainly relate to wanting to get on the internet rather than go out with real people.

The guy in the club...he seems like a luddite doesn't he? "The wierd must not be allowed to interfere with the real world..." "why are you making me do this..." Lain is making him do things..and then the most interesting quote in the whole show "where ever you go everyone is connected". There are two ways I see you can interpret this 1. where ever you go everyone is connected to each other. 2. Where ever you go everyone is connected in some way to the wierd (which some would say is what makes 1 possible). Not sure which is intended though I think the guy who shot himself thought she meant the second, and lain did seem to transform there didn't she?

Larger question how old is Lain supposed to be? Her father said she is in junior high now in one of the other episodes, that would be sixth grade but her uniform still looks like the elementary school uniform. However I don't know of any "clubs" that would allow a fifth grader in and surly no parents would allow there fifth grader to go into one...(though I wouldn't allow a sixth grader..).

He still shows the impersonalness of the modern world so very well.

Ok so the habiane remi (misspelled sorry) that I bought recently said it was by the creators of lain...this confuses me I didn't see yoshita abe in the credits for Lain, what is the overlap between these to shows? (If yoshita abe did both of these than he is a God and any thing he does I think I would buy).

The red haired girl got shot correct? Never been able to figure that out. Ok enough for now.

[zaldar]

Ah so no one is going to post in this unless I start it huh (sigh). Ah well on to the third episode! Now things are getting interesting. At this point I am even more confused at what age Lain is supposed to be. Her parents keep talking about Jr. High but she tells the girls in the club she is in ninth grade...thats high school in the US. Are things different in Japan? We also get to meet the men in black, they are so much fun! We get more evidence that there are two lains and that she can almost switch from one to the other at will (at least it seems the second lain comes out when the boy asks her out). I also liked how the second seemed to know what the chip was when the first didn't as well as how her father knew but wasn't going to say. I wonder if he put it there or knew someone was going to. Her parents know more than they are saying but perhaps her sister doesn't as she was scared about the men in black...

The random quotes from the internet are also fun, (though more should have been about sex for it to be realistic...). We also have the odd voice on the train, the weirdness just keeps rising. I never understood why she backed down in asking her parents where they were and I don't think we ever find out where they went or why, this may have just been to increase the creepiness level not sure.

[zaldar]

Ah so no one is going to post in this unless I start it huh (sigh). Ah well on to the third episode! Now things are getting interesting. At this point I am even more confused at what age Lain is supposed to be. Her parents keep talking about Jr. High but she tells the girls in the club she is in ninth grade...thats high school in the US. Are things different in Japan? We also get to meet the men in black, they are so much fun! We get more evidence that there are two lains and that she can almost switch from one to the other at will (at least it seems the second lain comes out when the boy asks her out). I also liked how the second seemed to know what the chip was when the first didn't as well as how her father knew but wasn't going to say. I wonder if he put it there or knew someone was going to. Her parents know more than they are saying but perhaps her sister doesn't as she was scared about the men in black...

The random quotes from the internet are also fun, (though more should have been about sex for it to be realistic...). We also have the odd voice on the train, the weirdness just keeps rising. I never understood why she backed down in asking her parents where they were and I don't think we ever find out where they went or why, this may have just been to increase the creepiness level not sure.

[KomoriKiri]

At this point I am even more confused at what age Lain is supposed to be. Her parents keep talking about Jr. High but she tells the girls in the club she is in ninth grade...thats high school in the US. Are things different in Japan?

It is. Junior high and high school are both 3 years, so junior high would be 7-9 and high school would be 10-12.

Also, while there definitely are two personalities there, I don't think she can will the change. The more assertive personality can take over sometimes, though. As I recall, there's a common theme for when it happens, so it's probably worth paying attention to.

Wraith
"Change is the essential process of all existence."

[GanChan]

Okay after watching the second episode again, I still do not see why the lady at Cyberia was wearing a gas mask when she gave that guy the Accela. ( the drug)



I saw on a documentary once that Japan has a certain fascination with "theme" clubs -- not just maid cafes, but full-blown theme rooms like dungeons where the tables are in jail cells, etc. I interpreted the gas mask as a part of something similar, though Cyberia is so dark most of the time that if even there was an overall theme environment you'd have trouble spotting it. and I'd be hard pressed to tell you what theme a gas mask would fit into -- biological warfare, I guess. I'll have an anthrax martini, please....

[zaldar]

well for those of you who have been following my posts (all 1 of you...;) you know that the verzion of lain I was given was one of the evil pirate ones which I only figured out recently. So my real copy arrived from rightstuff today the genon essentials collection version. I will admit I wasn't expecting a really big difference in quality. I was wrong.

Some of the difference in picture may have been from the fact that I changed my TV settings but that doesn't explain the sound. Who knew that you could here some of the people talking on the wired when you were being shown the wires? Or that there was music when you were waiting for the train to hit the girl? I am going to rewatch the first episode on both of my versions tomorrow one right after the other to see how many other differences I can spot. Just watched the first episode on my new copy today. Then I will go and watch the fourth episode and hopefully get back to Hanibie.

On another topic does anyone have any good locations for lain or hanibie avatars (or heck an abe avatar..heh a picture of the anime creator that would be different). Next to the people that do Ghost in the Shell Abe has become by far my favorite anime creator.

[zaldar]

In my continuing quest to reseruct this thread discussion on episode four-when things really begin to get odd.

So we have Lain really changing. Does this mean her two personalities are merging? I am not sure, I watched all the episodes again (now that I have a better copy) and I tried to pick out when she went into her "other" persona it seems to happen when ever she is in danger (the club, the men in black in episode four) when someone around her dies (the girl on the train) or she is confronted by someone with knowledge of her other persona (the boy who asks her for a date) though I am not sure if you should count the last one as when JJ asks her about the rave she doesn't seem to revert, and I'm not sure when the boy asks her out on a date if she actually changes or just gets upset.

So in this episode we are introduced to the game and the programs on the net combining in odd ways with each other and the "real" world. First the people in the more violent game are being stalked by the kidnergardeners using the tag game in the real world and end up killing themselves trying to get away (at least that is my interpretation) then one of the players being followed kills in the game one of the kidnergardeners but seems to kill them in the real world not just the game (though we never hear about this again so I am not sure of this exactly) as well if you use the sheets to represent bodies on the roof in the end of this scene it seems like there are two not sure what to make of that.

We also have Lain becoming more adept at using the wired and more sociable in the real world an interesting combo and one that does happen in reality. I opened up in the real world in almost the same way because of opening up online. The sexual freedom that is slowing entering America I also think has a lot to do with the net. Then lain seems to use her computer to effect the real world when she scares off the men in black who were spying on her, perhaps entering her computer (not sure on that one).

The review of the disk on this site uses Mage a game by white wolf to explain what is going on and I think this works here to a point. In later episodes the metaphor falls down but the idea that our perceptions do activly make the world around us, what we believe is what exists does seem to work here.

Overall a very odd but interesting episode. I also noticed that perhaps in the earlier episodes you can tell when lain is in her "other" persona by when her pupils are dialated not sure on that one though. As well there seemed to be an infinity symbol at the bottom of the circular drawing she was making in class and the other times a symboyl like that came up.

When lain was talking with the boy and we see "her" outlined in light was she teleporting herself using the net to that area in the real world, or was the boy actually in the net but thought he was in the real world? The fact we don't here about a boy killing a child on the news or through lain's friends makes me think it might be the latter but again not sure.

Ok enough rambeling for now...

[Buster Blader 126]

It's been a few weeks since I've watched the earlier episodes, but this was the point when I began to notice the changes in Lain's room. How can a simple (well maybe not simple, but you get my point) girl's room suddenly turn into something like a mad scientist's?

Her room seems like a sign of how much Lain is engrossing herself with the Wired. it sure happened really quickly, I gotta say.

[zaldar]

Come watch it again with us! We are still early enough that you can catch up very easily! Yea her room became incredible in this episode, we have no idea how much time is passing between the episodes but it doesn't look like much if any. Almost as soon as her father gets it set up she is changing it and making it larger.

One thing I miss from my "bad" copy is the music on the menu. An interesting style decision not to include any here, in fact I think this is the only one I have ever seen that made that decision. Does anyone else know of any that did?

[Buster Blader 126]

Come watch it again with us! We are still early enough that you can catch up very easily! Yea her room became incredible in this episode, we have no idea how much time is passing between the episodes but it doesn't look like much if any. Almost as soon as her father gets it set up she is changing it and making it larger.

One thing I miss from my "bad" copy is the music on the menu. An interesting style decision not to include any here, in fact I think this is the only one I have ever seen that made that decision. Does anyone else know of any that did?

Oh I'm watching it, it's just that I'm on Episode 7 (Ep. 8 should be airing this Saturday), and sometimes I can't remember exactly what I've watched.

When They Cry, also by Geneon, doesn't have any music during the menu either.

[zaldar]

Ah which network is aring it? We are trying to do one show a week so we just got to four...(I wanted to do it faster than that but was outvoted by those who don't post...)

[joelgundam01]

Ah which network is aring it? We are trying to do one show a week so we just got to four...(I wanted to do it faster than that but was outvoted by those who don't post...)

Sorry, that I haven't posted. I just can't find time to rewatch the series. :sd:

I'll see if I can do a mini marathon this weekend to catch up.