Official Utawarerumono JP BD Information

[Jumbo]

By the way, the September issue of Dengeki G's Magazine (p.31) mentions that Imagica ImageWorks is soliciting an Utawarerumono Blu-ray Box for "TBA 2007" (no month/date yet). I wonder if it's an upscale, or if the show was actually produced in HD but just didn't air that way? I guess we'll see...

http://utaware.net/ has updated with a release date and details for the Blu-ray box set. The date they are giving is Jan. 23rd, 2008 [01/23/08] and as member Buster Darkwings posted earlier in the thread they are listing it as sourced from an "Original HD Master."

Details include:

- Color BD 50Gig[1 sided Dual Layer] X 4 Discs
- Actual Program run time of 598 Minutes [All 26 Episodes]
- 117 minutes of extra footage

Video:

- 16:9 [1080i High Definition] (Original Master)
- 16:9 Squeeze.Vista Vision [480i Standard Definition]
- 4:3 [480i Standard Definition]

Audio:

- Japanese Linear PCM Stereo + English Dolby 5.1ch
- Special footage/extras in Linear Stereo

Subtitle Streams:

English Language Subtitle stream (Selectable on/off)

Other Bonuses:

- All 4 Extra DVD Exclusive short Episodes
- Fold out case X 4
- 76 Page full color booklet (Compiled from material released in the DVD)
- First Press = a set of 8 Illustration Cards from the DVD Jackets.

Price: 52,500 Tax in [50,000 w/o tax] (Limited Production and special prize)
Catalog number: VPXY-15931
Release Date: 01/23/08

I'm sure I've missed little tidbits here and there or miffed some of the more technical terms, feel free to put me in my place if I'm wrong on anything. -_-;

English 5.1 and English Subtitles included? Sold.


Source: FiRSTRoN (http://homepage2.nifty.com/faxia/)

EDIT:

Looks like it is up on amazon.co.jp here: Link (http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%81%86%E3%81%9F%E3%82%8F%E3%82%8C%E3%82%8B%E3%8 2%82%E3%81%AE-Blu-ray/dp/B000XJJMHA/ref=sr_1_14/249-7636992-7450739?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1192904416&sr=1-14)

[Kaikou]

I've not seen "Utawarerumono", but this is definitely a tempting release. :virgin:

[Skywise]

Okay that's a weird one - why would they include both a 480i version and a 1080i one? And why 1080i instead of 1080p? I smell a rat here.

[Chris Beveridge]

I suspect the listing is breaking out what's in the package, i.e. some extras are done at 1080i and some extras are 480i ,as well as some being widescreen and some full screen.

[Njr Scrawl]

I've not seen "Utawarerumono", but this is definitely a tempting release. :virgin:

If I like the ending (not got there yet on R1) this is a strong consideration, now that the cheaper PS3s are on the way.

[Sensuifu]

Okay that's a weird one - why would they include both a 480i version and a 1080i one? And why 1080i instead of 1080p? I smell a rat here.

As much as I would like to get this, I think I'll pass. 1080i reeks of possible upscale to me. With the PS3 being an excellent upscaling DVD player, I doubt anyone will notice, but for that price, 1080p should've been a given.

[gryffinseye]

Okay that's a weird one - why would they include both a 480i version and a 1080i one? And why 1080i instead of 1080p? I smell a rat here.

As much as I would like to get this, I think I'll pass. 1080i reeks of possible upscale to me. With the PS3 being an excellent upscaling DVD player, I doubt anyone will notice, but for that price, 1080p should've been a given.

Agreed. If you're going to pay Y50,000 for a series, it would want to be 1080p all the way. For the difference in price between that and the R1 DVDs, you could buy a decent quality DVD player with 1080p upscaling.

[Shiroi Hane]

If it was region free I'd be sorely tempted, since I've only got the first of the UK DVDs so far.. if I had the money.

[Buster Darkwings]

I've yet to see the show, but it's possible it was done at 30fps or like how KyoAni does their Key shows -- 30fps for the opening and 24fps for the actual show, and they didn't want to have a noticable switch from one's display having to re-synch to a different signal (I know I'd find it distracting but would still rather have the encode done the same as the source). If the entire show was done at 1080p30, it would have to be done at 1080i since IIRC Blu-Ray doesn't support native 1080p30.

Or perhaps they edited it on video and didn't want to do a reverse telecine.

[Wagg]

If it was region free I'd be sorely tempted, since I've only got the first of the UK DVDs so far.. if I had the money.
What's another $436 here or there?:P

[Buster Darkwings]

I suspect the listing is breaking out what's in the package, i.e. some extras are done at 1080i and some extras are 480i ,as well as some being widescreen and some full screen.

Yeah, it specifically says the main feature is 1080i and some extras are 1080i and some are 480i, not that they're including the main feature in 480i as well. I wouldn't worry about anything being an upscale, though. If they say it's from an HD master, then they could get into a load of trouble if it's not true high-def. Even if they could get away with it legally, I don't think they'd want to risk the fan backlash and bad press.

[Skywise]

Wiki lists HD DVD as supporting 30p, but not Blu-ray. It kind of makes me suspicious since I don't see why that would be different, especially considering the limitations HD DVD has for handling of progressive material. I'll see if I can get some clarifications on that one.

"Editing on video" shouldn't be an issue anymore as they can use 24psf (and I'm actually told some studios have even used the same techniques with SD mastering) to get past it. Mixed frame rates could be a problem, as VC1 doesn't allow them, unlike MPEG2. I'm not quite sure what limits AVC has, but I do know they have a very different approach to it by using interlaced macroblocks.

[Buster Darkwings]

Wiki lists HD DVD as supporting 30p, but not Blu-ray. It kind of makes me suspicious since I don't see why that would be different, especially considering the limitations HD DVD has for handling of progressive material. I'll see if I can get some clarifications on that one.

It's true. This was the reason why the Nine Inch Nails live BD was 1080i but the HD DVD was 1080p, even though it's the same video master.

"Editing on video" shouldn't be an issue anymore as they can use 24psf (and I'm actually told some studios have even used the same techniques with SD mastering) to get past it.

That doesn't necessarily mean that it's available to all and that everyone can afford it.

[TempestGarden]

This is really cool news. I liked this series overall even if I was totally confused by the ending. I even asked someone who has seen it to explain the ending a little better to me in the thread for the review of vol. 06, but noone posted anything. It would be cool to have this series in High Def.

[Skywise]

"Editing on video" shouldn't be an issue anymore as they can use 24psf (and I'm actually told some studios have even used the same techniques with SD mastering) to get past it.

That doesn't necessarily mean that it's available to all and that everyone can afford it.


Actually it is. It's a simple hack which allows you to use 1080i gear to do it. It's also been around for a while, so should be easily accessible.

[inu-liger]

Wiki lists HD DVD as supporting 30p, but not Blu-ray. It kind of makes me suspicious since I don't see why that would be different, especially considering the limitations HD DVD has for handling of progressive material. I'll see if I can get some clarifications on that one.

It's true. This was the reason why the Nine Inch Nails live BD was 1080i but the HD DVD was 1080p, even though it's the same video master.

I'll have to burst that interlaced bubble of yours:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/nineinchnailslivebesideyouintime.html
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=383

Both these sites list it as 1080p/VC-1

[Buster Darkwings]

I'll have to burst that interlaced bubble of yours:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/nineinchnailslivebesideyouintime.html
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?id=383

Both these sites list it as 1080p/VC-1

No, it's 1080i (technically 1080p30 flagged as 108060i). Take a look at discussions of the disc on various forums, and you'll see that when played back from a PS3 (which doesn't deinterlace 1080i to 1080p, unlike standalone Blu-Ray players), the output is 1080i. You'll see confirmation of this in the first page of the discussion on HighDefDigest.

And you can never fully trust the listed specs on review sites, especially those two. You would think they would have changed it by now... I see HighDefDigest finally fixed the Bandai Visual disc reviews that used to say 5.1 PCM when they were really just 2.0...

[inu-liger]

I stand corrected :P

[Buster Darkwings]

Looking again at the comments from the supervisor of the disc (I read it back around when they were first posted), I'd have to say you were right the first time-- he says the video stream is technically 1080p30. The PS3 will still output it as 1080i since it can only read the flags, but standalones should properly deinterlace it (although if I owned one I'd have greater peace of mind if they could just directly playback the video stream without it having to go 1080p-1080i-1080p).

I wonder if the HD-animated totally-new openings for Air on its BD release are technically 1080p30 as well.

[Jumbo]

Impress Watch (Watch<->Impress ?) Japan has updated with some shots of what looks to be the disc jackets, 8 illustration cards and box for the series: Link (http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20071022/imagica.htm)

Source: FiRSTRoN (http://homepage2.nifty.com/faxia/) via http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/

[morphix]

Ohhh...

I should be in Japan a few months after its released, maybe I'll be able to find it in a discount store.

[Skywise]

I got the answer I needed, and unfortunately it wasn't a good one. No, BD doesn't support 30P, and no it doesn't support mixed 24/30 frame rates either, unlike DVD. That means we'll most likely be cursed with 1080i for TV show anime for the unforeseeable future. With hi-def sets being progressive that means it's even more crucial now to actually get a player which can do proper cadence detection for 1080i. I've given Sony feedback that it's something we want on the PS3, but if and until that happens, it's probably the worst BD player out there for non-theatrical anime that contains anything in 30fps. Part of the problem is that quite a bit of the HD masters the studios have right now are in 1080i also.

[Kaikou]

I got the answer I needed, and unfortunately it wasn't a good one. No, BD doesn't support 30P, and no it doesn't support mixed 24/30 frame rates either, unlike DVD. That means we'll most likely be cursed with 1080i for TV show anime for the unforeseeable future. With hi-def sets being progressive that means it's even more crucial now to actually get a player which can do proper cadence detection for 1080i. I've given Sony feedback that it's something we want on the PS3, but if and until that happens, it's probably the worst BD player out there for non-theatrical anime that contains anything in 30fps. Part of the problem is that quite a bit of the HD masters the studios have right now are in 1080i also.

Is this something the PS3 could incorporate in a firmware update? (cadence detection for 1080i)

I'm not exactly familiar with what is being discussed or why Blu-ray can't handle 30P or mixed 24/30 frame rates. Guess it's more of an issue for back catalog titles, then it is for newer titles.

[Buster Darkwings]

Yeah, I've been following the Insider Thread on Blu-Ray.com. Doesn't much affect me personally since both my display and my VP50Pro will properly deinterlace 1080i content (with the latter also able to eliminate judder from the 3:2 pulldown), but still somewhat discouraging to think that once Kanon and Clannad are finally released they'll most likely be in 1080i as well.

So if many HD masters are in 1080i, would you say that's the likely reason for many of the recent HD remaster DVDs such as CCS, Patlabor, Nadesico, etc. having aliasing?

[Skywise]

Is this something the PS3 could incorporate in a firmware update? (cadence detection for 1080i)

Yes. It was done for DVD playback. There's two potential issues though: 1. CPU budget - how much cpu power does the PS3 have left to perform the processing, and how would it affect other things like PiP and the like, and 2. competition with other player manufacturers. Sony's been holding back on implementing some PS3 BD features because they don't want to alienate other BD player manufacturers, especially with it being so cheap. They don't want to go the Toshiba route and essentially kill off hardware support. It would also undercut their own market for selling more expensive high-end players.


I'm not exactly familiar with what is being discussed or why Blu-ray can't handle 30P or mixed 24/30 frame rates. Guess it's more of an issue for back catalog titles, then it is for newer titles.


Both new and old titles may be affected, with new ones more likely since they're more likely to have 30 fps segments. For older anime it's more a problem of the mastering process used, as a lot of the HD masters being done to date have been in 1080i.

[Skywise]

Unfortunately it affects you as well. The VP50Pro is good, but subtitles will still throw it for a loop. There's just no ideal way of handling it. At best you can tweak the settings so it's more aggressive at staying in film mode, and you get to live with combing subs.


So if many HD masters are in 1080i, would you say that's the likely reason for many of the recent HD remaster DVDs such as CCS, Patlabor, Nadesico, etc. having aliasing?

Yes. That's precisely why they have aliasing. The problem is in the downconversion process used for the DVD encodes. The actual masters should be fine, but we'll probably get them in 1080i on BD as well, unless the studio somehow decides to run IVTC on them prior to encoding.

[Buster Darkwings]

Unfortunately it affects you as well. The VP50Pro is good, but subtitles will still throw it for a loop. There's just no ideal way of handling it. At best you can tweak the settings so it's more aggressive at staying in film mode, and you get to live with combing subs.


I don't need subs :P
I've yet to test out 1080i deinterlacing (need to get another HDMI cable), but I'm skeptical as to how much subs really affect the VP50Pro.

Edit: I'm quite used to combing subs as well, since they appear occaisionally with DScaler and since I only glance down at them momentarily anyways. So unless the VP50Pro is worse than a freeware deinterlacing program, I'm not too worried about it.

[slerch666]

Agreed. If you're going to pay Y50,000 for a series, it would want to be 1080p all the way. For the difference in price between that and the R1 DVDs, you could buy a decent quality DVD player with 1080p upscaling.
You ever buy R2 DVDs? Obviously not, as $500 isn't a bad price for a 26 (or is it 24) eps series. And with this you get HD quality... even if it is upscaled.

So in Japan, the region it is intended for, it's actually quite a bargain.

[relentlessflame]

You ever buy R2 DVDs? Obviously not, as $500 isn't a bad price for a 26 (or is it 24) eps series. And with this you get HD quality... even if it is upscaled.

So in Japan, the region it is intended for, it's actually quite a bargain.
Especially assuming, of course, that you didn't already buy it on R2 DVD. If only I had known this was coming -- and with the English dub and sub track as well! :sd:

I imagine this is going to be the big problem for collectors going forward. It's one thing when they tell you in advance that the show is animated in HD or you can tell by the TV airing. But if you have to start second-guessing yourself every time you buy R2 DVDs wondering if the show actually has an HD master or not, and might be re-released soon... eventually people will just wait it out. I would have waited, at least, since this is really an ideal combination of everything. It's so ideal that it also makes any thought of selling the R2 DVD sets somewhat futile. Oh well... :sd:

[The Great Bear]

I liked the show a lot and English audio is a plus, but ¥50,000 is my R2 purchasing budget for most of a year. I've already committed myself to picking up Clannad, so I don't think I can afford this.

And on top of the nearly $500 (don't forget shipping will add at least 20), I don't have a Bluray player yet :P

[kakugo]

Are you certain the aliasing we see on SD releases of 1080i masters is the scaling and not the master itself? After all, Warner Brothers had several years of 1080i masters they had to dispose of when the HD DVD/Blu-Ray transfers (Enter the Dragon, Full Metal Jacket, The Perfect Storm, etc.) showed fairly similar aliasing to stuff I've seen from R2 screencaps on Cardcaptor Sakura and Millenium Actress. The titles were properly IVTCed to 1080p24, but the damage was already done, and as such WB is releasing Full Metal Jacket in HD over again and will likely follow suit with the other titles in the future.

Granted I don't know what hardware is being used on any of these telecines, so it could just be a simple scaling issue in which case the Blu-Ray releases will be fine, and could probably be IVTCed back to 1080p24, though as you've reminded me before anime and 3:2 pulldown cadence aren't exactly close friends. It's hard to say without ever seeing the masters.

[Jumbo]

I liked the show a lot and English audio is a plus, but ¥50,000 is my R2 purchasing budget for most of a year. I've already committed myself to picking up Clannad, so I don't think I can afford this.

Only 38,850 yen (Tax Included) if you pre-order via amazon. ^^;

While the lack of 1080p is a slight bummer (I'm sure that will be included on the "re-master" they'll release in 4 or so years) ^^; having not spent much money on the show so far (aside from the first volume on a Right Stuf daily deal special) I'm willing to cave on this one.

Probably the most exciting thing about this release are the English sub and dub track. If ADV's partnering w/ Soljitz means that the R2 companies are going to have easier access to this content for their HD releases then hopefully this will form a trend and we can see more of this in the future w/ titles like Kanon or Clannad.

[Skywise]

The problem with those WB masters is that they took 1080i masters and then converted them to 24P by simply bobbing them and dropping frames according to a 3:2 pattern without taking the original cadence properly into account. Now that I know that you can't have mixed 24/30fps, I think it's precisely because they couldn't get a clean cadence, and wanted to do a 1080@24P release. Had they just stuck to 1080i they wouldn't have had that problem, but of course people would have screamed bloody murder then anyway because it wasn't 1080p.

The R2 DVD aliasing fits perfectly with a broken attempt at 3:2 pulldown removal and downscaling. The frame rate is 24fps, but the aliasing pulses in a pattern that matches the original telecine cadence, after you've removed frames. I think what happened is they just downscaled it to 480i and let the encoder detect the initial cadence, but after that it loses synch at the first pattern break because the aliasing isn't strong enough for the encoder to pick it up, compared to combing. I could be wrong, but I feel very confident that I'm making a correct educated guess here.

So, as long as the anime studios stick to 1080i for material that doesn't convert properly, we should be fine. I'd still like them to use 1080P for the stuff that does however.

[Cyporiean 2.0]

Preorder Discount + English = Sold for me..

Now as long as Gainax Doesn't annouce a Gurren Lagann BD boxset for a few months I should be okay...

[kakugo]

Ah, my mistake. I know the official response quoted "noise reduction" as the reason why the transfers looked that way, which makes zero sense. Noise reduction makes transfers softer and can smear, which if anything would reduce aliasing. :sigh:

That having been said: not having hybrid framerates on Blu-Ray is going to suck for anime. I guess I'll cross my fingers that by the time I can afford a Blu-Ray drive that my PC will be fast enough to play them in an FFDShow/AviSynth friendly player that will allow me to force IVTC on ATSCi content myself. (Looking at my dated video card and PCI-Express free mother board... well, my magic 8 ball is saying "no way in hell, kid".)

[gundamseed]

well i think that most new animes have 1080p master , well okay i hope ,since Clannad came out this yeah it should have one if not well hhhmm. Hope fully Sony will bring out a FW for ps3 it going be best selling blu ray play for long time .

[kakugo]

We certainly hope everything is being finished progressively, but unless somebody specifically says "1080p24" somewhere about all we can do is guess. From a production standpoint editing TV shows at 1080i is acceptable, since they'll be broadcast that way anyhow.

You can do cadence detection at the software level (I do it with DVDs on the fly), but I imagine that'll get very CPU intensive on a PS3 detecting and deinterlacing 1920x1080 pixels. I don't think any other Blu-Ray players are doing a lot of software based decoding, and as I've yet to see newer versions of stuff like PowerDVD I dunno' what they're capable of yet.

[Mazinkaizer]

I didn't watch the show yet but if it appeals to me then this is indeed a tempting release :> i hope that this is a start toward making more BD releases in Japan with English subtitle included in the future :)

[HyugaKojiro]

I didn't watch the show yet but if it appeals to me then this is indeed a tempting release :> i hope that this is a start toward making more BD releases in Japan with English subtitle included in the future :)

same here.

Here's hoping more JP companies put in "your sub/dub belong to us" clauses into licensing contracts, especially for Funi licenses so we don't have to put up with the shoddy video to see a quality localization.

[Hayate Kurogane]

I didn't watch the show yet but if it appeals to me then this is indeed a tempting release :> i hope that this is a start toward making more BD releases in Japan with English subtitle included in the future :)

same here.

Here's hoping more JP companies put in "your sub/dub belong to us" clauses into licensing contracts, especially for Funi licenses so we don't have to put up with the shoddy video to see a quality localization.


I believe it's actually more common for such a clause to be included rather than not. There are plenty of R1 releases where essentially all the R1 licensor owns is their logo, any front-loaded ads, and the menus. This is why R1 license-rescues (Slayers, Master of Mosquiton, F3, etc.) include existing dubs and subtitles, and why it's actually beneficial in a number of ways for Geneon to be completing dub and sub production on all in-progress titles.

If dubs and subs were more than just a space-consuming novelty of questionable value for Japanese consumers, we'd probably see them included on more R2 releases. The obvious problem is that dubs and most subs are created after the fact, so inclusion on any sort of R2 release is dependent on a re-release of some sort, though obviously such things would (and probably should) be included on upcoming Blu-ray releases of existing titles. I guess if the Japanese realize there's an incentive for doing so (i.e., at the moment there's a lack of serious action in the U.S. for Blu-ray anime, so anyone who cares would probably be willing to import from Japan), then we'll see more of it. Bandai Visual is obviously including subs and dubs, but that's of course part of the whole BVUSA thing.

[Blackraven]

The official English dub for this show is from where?

ADV Films?

[HyugaKojiro]

The official English dub for this show is from where?

ADV Films?

I placed my order under the assumption that they got the Dub/Sub from ADV, of course if the JP voice cast came in and re-dubbed it into Engrish that would be hilarious as well :D

[LOUiE]

The official English dub for this show is from where?

ADV Films?

I placed my order under the assumption that they got the Dub/Sub from ADV, of course if the JP voice cast came in and re-dubbed it into Engrish that would be hilarious as well :D

I would have to buy it at that point. I'd love to hear how they tried to speak English for it.

[MARl0]

My order is currently in the "shipping process" at cdjapan. I'm a huge fan of this show, so I'm really looking forward to it. I'll be sure to post my impressions on the resolution and overall quality of the video when it arrives. If it's true 1080i (and not upscaled), I'll definitely know the difference.

[inu-liger]

My order is currently in the "shipping process" at cdjapan. I'm a huge fan of this show, so I'm really looking forward to it. I'll be sure to post my impressions on the resolution and overall quality of the video when it arrives. If it's true 1080i (and not upscaled), I'll definitely know the difference.

That would be most appreciated :)

-Richard

[Cyporiean 2.0]

just got my shipping notice from Amazon.

[Buster Darkwings]

I was severely tempted to get this, but I need to save for a trip to the US. The Japanese review on AV watch was very praising of it. Will probably pick it up in a couple months.

[HyugaKojiro]

just got my shipping notice from Amazon.

same here, its sitting somewhere in Alaska right now, and its supposed to arrive tomorrow. Too bad I don't have time to whatch it until the weekend :(

[Cyporiean 2.0]

just got my shipping notice from Amazon.

same here, its sitting somewhere in Alaska right now, and its supposed to arrive tomorrow. Too bad I don't have time to whatch it until the weekend :(


Likewise -.-

[kumogakure]

PS3 BD @ 1080i
Case.1 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201066931.png)
Case.2 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201089147.png)


PS3 DVD(UpConvert) @ 1080i
Case.1 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201067095.png)
Case.2 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201089344.png)

enjoy! ;)

[Cyporiean 2.0]

FedEx just dropped mine off.. nice box.

[EWD]

PS3 BD @ 1080i
Case.1 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201066931.png)
Case.2 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201089147.png)


PS3 DVD(UpConvert) @ 1080i
Case.1 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201067095.png)
Case.2 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201089344.png)

enjoy! ;)


The resolution on the BD is clearly much better in these images, which I expected.

What I didn't expect is that the colors are very different between the two sets of images. Is this a calibration issue or are DVD and BD color spaces really that different?

[raistlinmajere]

PS3 BD @ 1080i
Case.1 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201066931.png)
Case.2 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201089147.png)


PS3 DVD(UpConvert) @ 1080i
Case.1 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201067095.png)
Case.2 (http://bbs.ps3wiki.to/up/download/1201089344.png)

Ouch. Are the R1 DVDs that bad? The BDs aren't even sporting details/sharpness that shows off SD, let alone HD, but they are definitely better than those DVD pics. Yuck.

[Cyporiean 2.0]

Watching the first episode now...


Damn this looks amazing. I hope we continue to get this level of quality releases.

[Kaikou]

Any chance to get the comparison images up on a different image hosting service? I can't seem to access them and keep timing out.

[morphix]

Sweet going to be in Japan next week, gotta pick this up

[Skywise]

Any chance to get the comparison images up on a different image hosting service? I can't seem to access them and keep timing out.

I have the same problem, and so are other people on irc. Either the server's bad, or there's some IP filtering/blocking going on.

[Sensuifu]

Watching the first episode now...


Damn this looks amazing. I hope we continue to get this level of quality releases.

how's the CG?

[Sensuifu]

Any chance to get the comparison images up on a different image hosting service? I can't seem to access them and keep timing out.

based on ping/trace results, looks like the server is down.

[Cyporiean 2.0]

Watching the first episode now...


Damn this looks amazing. I hope we continue to get this level of quality releases.

how's the CG?

What in it is CG? (haven't seen anything stand out)

if its the fires, they look amazing.

[Sensuifu]

Watching the first episode now...


Damn this looks amazing. I hope we continue to get this level of quality releases.

how's the CG?

What in it is CG? (haven't seen anything stand out)

if its the fires, they look amazing.


the soldiers in particular (during the battle scenes). I wondering if they're more noticeable now that it's in HD (which in SD is already pretty bad).

[Jumbo]

Not screen shots (Sorry to disappoint) but here's a break down of the box and contents

Box side 1 (http://home.centurytel.net/unbeknownst2u/R2/Jan/uta01.jpg)
Box side 2 (http://home.centurytel.net/unbeknownst2u/R2/Jan/uta02.jpg)
Box side 3 (http://home.centurytel.net/unbeknownst2u/R2/Jan/uta03.jpg)
Cases for vol. 1 & 2 (http://home.centurytel.net/unbeknownst2u/R2/Jan/uta04.jpg)
Cases for vol. 3 & 4 (http://home.centurytel.net/unbeknownst2u/R2/Jan/uta05.jpg)
76 page all color booklet cover (http://home.centurytel.net/unbeknownst2u/R2/Jan/uta06.jpg)
Booklet sample (http://home.centurytel.net/unbeknownst2u/R2/Jan/uta07.jpg)
Postcards for vol. 1 (http://home.centurytel.net/unbeknownst2u/R2/Jan/uta08.jpg)
Postcards for vol. 2 (http://home.centurytel.net/unbeknownst2u/R2/Jan/uta09.jpg)
Postcards for vol. 3 (http://home.centurytel.net/unbeknownst2u/R2/Jan/uta10.jpg)
Postcards for vol. 4 (http://home.centurytel.net/unbeknownst2u/R2/Jan/uta11.jpg)

[slerch666]

I've ordered and canceled this release about 6 times now.

I just can't get over the price when I have Starzinger to purchase. I'd rather have Matsumoto Leiji than Utawaremono. And I almost bought it after my raise... but instead bought a bunch of HP Lovecraft hardcover books I've been wanting to purchase.

I'm hoping Amazon Japan continues to offer their discount and the value of the dollar to the Yen returns to more favorable prices! If it's around in April, I'll probably jump on it then...

[MARl0]

Bah! I should've had mine today, but it got "delayed" in customs in Chicago... Guess I'll have to wait until tomorrow. Sounds like it's worth the wait though (it's going to be a long day at work tomorrow before I get home to watch it...)

[MARl0]

Also, is it confirmed to be ADV's dub for the english track?

[Cyporiean 2.0]

Also, is it confirmed to be ADV's dub for the english track?

Yep.

Also it auto-starts the episodes, so you'll want to be quick with the remote if you want to get english.

[HyugaKojiro]

the soldiers in particular (during the battle scenes). I wondering if they're more noticeable now that it's in HD (which in SD is already pretty bad).

Finally got to watch the first disc yesterday, and I was definitely impressed. The CG is archangel obvious when it is used, but it really doesn't detract from the viewing experience considering the great picture quality you're getting. Not sure if its worse than SD, but again its very easy to see when they used it.

[Sensuifu]

the soldiers in particular (during the battle scenes). I wondering if they're more noticeable now that it's in HD (which in SD is already pretty bad).

Finally got to watch the first disc yesterday, and I was definitely impressed. The CG is archangel obvious when it is used, but it really doesn't detract from the viewing experience considering the great picture quality you're getting. Not sure if its worse than SD, but again its very easy to see when they used it.

thanks for the impressions. I'll probably end up buying this sometime down the road, but it's good to hear high praises about the video so far.

[gundamseed]

i would love to buy this but man does cost alot hopefully it get cheaper in time. If not i have to cut back on games and see if i can get it.

[slerch666]

i would love to buy this but man does cost alot hopefully it get cheaper in time.
Not likely to happen anytime soon, if it ever does.

[LOUiE]

i would love to buy this but man does cost alot hopefully it get cheaper in time.
Not likely to happen anytime soon, if it ever does.
Yeah, in Japan, anime rarely gets cheaper and if it does, it's usually a clearance sale specifically by the place selling it.

[HyugaKojiro]

i would love to buy this but man does cost alot hopefully it get cheaper in time. If not i have to cut back on games and see if i can get it.

Now is the time to strike, amazon has extended the pre-order discount for many anime BDs, including this set, but they can change this at any time, effectively making this set around $120 more expensive.

Edit: Cutting back on games is the way to go, as games always end up getting cheaper as time passes. Just keep an eye out on CAG for your games and you won't regret getting this set.

[MARl0]

I just received mine today finally, and wow, it is definitely not an upconvert. This is a real HD master, and it looks beautiful.

And Jumbo, I noticed that you didn't show any pics of the bonus item that was included with it. Did you not get one? Here are the photos that I took (sorry about the image quality, I took them with my cell phone...):

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w156/marl0photo/IMG_0033.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w156/marl0photo/IMG_0035.jpg

[MARl0]

Just to go into more detail after watching the first disk, I have a whole new appreciation for the background art. They are so sharp and vivid that I'm noticing details that I never noticed on ADV's R1 DVDs (which I also own). You can see the finest detail in the brush strokes, it's really a sight to see. The low lighting scenes (night time, etc.) also look really crisp, with zero compression or artifacting.

On a negative note though, I noticed that, unfortunately, the omake theater episodes don't feature subtitles. Which is a real shame, because they are hilarious (I've seen them on my R1 DVDs with subtitles).

Overall though, I'm just really impressed with this BD release. It's definitely one of the best I've seen so far, as far as the quality of the video and resolution (and having ADV's english dub makes it perfect for dub watchers like myself). If you have the money, it's definitely worth it

[Cyporiean 2.0]

I just received mine today finally, and wow, it is definitely not an upconvert. This is a real HD master, and it looks beautiful.

And Jumbo, I noticed that you didn't show any pics of the bonus item that was included with it. Did you not get one? Here are the photos that I took (sorry about the image quality, I took them with my cell phone...):

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w156/marl0photo/IMG_0033.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w156/marl0photo/IMG_0035.jpg

awww.. i didn't get that ;.;

[Wagg]

Wow. You guys are rich. I can't afford the $350+ for this set. That's almost the price of my Blu-Ray player (PS3).

[Jumbo]

And Jumbo, I noticed that you didn't show any pics of the bonus item that was included with it. Did you not get one? Here are the photos that I took (sorry about the image quality, I took them with my cell phone...):

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w156/marl0photo/IMG_0033.jpg

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w156/marl0photo/IMG_0035.jpg

Nope, Ordered mine from Amazon, not sure if that made any difference.

I do recall them mentioning there being a "Prize" type item, so I'm thinking this was another one of those random wacky Japanese-omake-that-pre-ordering-doesn't-help-with deals. ^^; (I put in my pre-order pretty early too, back when this thread started.) Oh well, I'll live. Thanks for sharing though!

[HyugaKojiro]

awww.. i didn't get that ;.;

Didn't get it either, must be the "first press" extra, I thought it was the postcards, but judging from the packaging it looked like they come standard.

I have to say this release does take the prize for recycling the same art work while still keeping it interesting if you know what I mean.

[Njr Scrawl]

Just to go into more detail after watching the first disk, I have a whole new appreciation for the background art. They are so sharp and vivid that I'm noticing details that I never noticed on ADV's R1 DVDs (which I also own). You can see the finest detail in the brush strokes, it's really a sight to see. The low lighting scenes (night time, etc.) also look really crisp, with zero compression or artifacting.

On a negative note though, I noticed that, unfortunately, the omake theater episodes don't feature subtitles. Which is a real shame, because they are hilarious (I've seen them on my R1 DVDs with subtitles).

Overall though, I'm just really impressed with this BD release. It's definitely one of the best I've seen so far, as far as the quality of the video and resolution (and having ADV's english dub makes it perfect for dub watchers like myself). If you have the money, it's definitely worth it

CDJ says there are no subtitles. Are ADV's subtitles used for the episodes then?

[raistlinmajere]

I just received mine today finally, and wow, it is definitely not an upconvert. This is a real HD master, and it looks beautiful.

None of the screenshots linked so far have shown off anything remotely HD. Feel free to change that.

[Skywise]

Someone provided me with a HDMI cap of the OP in AVC, and it's definitely HD. With the cap being a re-encode at slightly lower bitrate I don't feel it's a fair representation of what the BD can fully provide, but it's still very clear that it's not an upscale.

[raistlinmajere]

Someone provided me with a HDMI cap of the OP in AVC, and it's definitely HD. With the cap being a re-encode at slightly lower bitrate I don't feel it's a fair representation of what the BD can fully provide, but it's still very clear that it's not an upscale.

Sounds like Air, then, with the op redone. Unless people want to provide proof that the episodes themselves were done in HD.

[zipCode]

pic1 (http://www.imagebam.com/image/8447dd2332990)
pic2 (http://www.imagebam.com/image/33a2912332991)
pic3 (http://www.imagebam.com/image/1b32432332992)
pic4 (http://www.imagebam.com/image/385e952332993)

Some pretty visible aliasing on characters at times, otherwise quite nice. Much better then dvd, detail seems to be above 720p level as well. Does someone know what causes the aliasing on characters on so many new jap anime? Seems like standard bonus these days.
Still, worth it if you have the money I guess, especially since it has english subs.

[Buster Darkwings]

Sounds like Air, then, with the op redone.

C/P of a post from mine in the "Is Air the only sweet show released on HD so far?" thread:
Only the new opening (with 2 versions) done for the Blu-ray box's extras disc was done in HD. The original opening is still upscaled [edit: the AIR in Summer version is also still just upscaled].

Also, for those who aren't aware, the new opening is not the original opening re-animated (I was under this impression when I first heard about it). It is longer, and uses entirely new shots and animation. About the only thing that looks similar is the opening shot of the clouds and the animated AIR logo. It makes the Blu-Ray set more than worth the price I paid, IMO. Every time I watch an episode of AIR, I have to get up and put in the extras disc, endure through the unskippable studio logos, and watch both versions of the new opening at least once. It's that beautiful.

[Buster Darkwings]

pic1 (http://www.imagebam.com/image/8447dd2332990)
pic2 (http://www.imagebam.com/image/33a2912332991)
pic3 (http://www.imagebam.com/image/1b32432332992)
pic4 (http://www.imagebam.com/image/385e952332993)

Some pretty visible aliasing on characters at times, otherwise quite nice. Much better then dvd, detail seems to be above 720p level as well. Does someone know what causes the aliasing on characters on so many new jap anime? Seems like standard bonus these days.

Most TVs and displays can't deinterlace 1080i properly (standalone Blu-Ray players can I believe, but not the PS3 which doesn't even try). I assume you're using a PC setup since you're able to take screenshots, but I don't know if a software player can properly deinterlace 1080i.

If it was upscaled from 720p (seems unlikely since Project Papo was 720p and actually released on Blu-Ray as such but who knows), then that could indeed account for the aliasing as well, but I'm more inclined to believe it's a result of improper deinterlacing.

[kakugo]

I don't see any aliasing on the background paintings, just the character outlines, so I can only assume that the animation production itself is to blame. If it were an upscale or a deinterlacing problem we'd see the same aliasing in the backgrounds too.

[Buster Darkwings]

In my experience aliasing isn't present unless there is motion. So the backgrounds wouldn't show aliasing except during pans.

[kakugo]

Are all three characters in the first shot all moving at the same time? It just looks like a dialog shot where I'd expect mouth flaps to be moving rather than whole bodies. I haven't seen the show so I honestly have no clue if they're moving in any/all of these shots or not.

If the aliasing was a result of scaling (my initial thought) it could easily be visible in the backgrounds. Perhaps not if it was a deinterlacing issue, though.

[Buster Darkwings]

Not sure. If the characters aren't in motion, then perhaps it is due to an upconversion from 720p.

There's little if any blockiness in the backgrounds of AIR on BD, even during pans (both my display and my VP50Pro will deinterlace 1080i correctly however). But the characters show much blockiness from the upconvert, even when motionless.

[zipCode]

It's neither deinterlacing or upconverting problem IMO.
1. The backgrounds never show this
2. There are many other anime that exhibit same problem (anime which do have above 720p detail, like freedom, sos tokyo)

This is how the master looks like, I say. Again, I have no idea why, but it's only present on characters. I don't know of any upconverting ways to create this sort of thing (I am not an expert at this, if anyone knows any please post, usually you get some haloing with upconversion, which doesn't seem a problem here).

Let's not forget the pics on the official site:
http://www.utaware.net/_common/img/2007-2008present/wal_el01t.jpg

Looks exactly the same, so it's not a problem of handling the disc, but it's their fault along the line (somehow..).

[Buster Darkwings]

It's neither deinterlacing or upconverting problem IMO.
1. The backgrounds never show this
2. There are many other anime that exhibit same problem (anime which do have above 720p detail, like freedom, sos tokyo)


Hmm, I think I know what you mean now. I can see a bit of it in the Simpsons Movie Blu-Ray as well due to my large screen. It looks like they didn't use antialiasing on the outlines, perhaps it was a conscious decision to make it appear sharper or something.

[Pfil]

It's neither deinterlacing or upconverting problem IMO.
1. The backgrounds never show this
2. There are many other anime that exhibit same problem (anime which do have above 720p detail, like freedom, sos tokyo)


Hmm, I think I know what you mean now. I can see a bit of it in the Simpsons Movie Blu-Ray as well due to my large screen. It looks like they didn't use antialiasing on the outlines, perhaps it was a conscious decision to make it appear sharper or something.

This topic interests me, so I took the liberty of doing some illustrations. :)

Just to clarify, when y'all are discussing aliasing here, are we talking about stuff like this (http://home.online.no/~bjo-lae/aliasing/aliased.png) versus this (http://home.online.no/~bjo-lae/aliasing/anti-aliased.png)? (If not, the rest of my post is not going to make much sense...)

If you zoom in on the pictures posted earlier, like I've done here (http://home.online.no/~bjo-lae/aliasing/closeup.png), you'll see that the outlines are indeed anti-aliased (unlike many digital anime shows I've seen, including SD), but because of the higher resolution the smoothing is less visible than would be typical for SD, and the 'strokes' look flatter and thicker. Had they used thinner lines it might have looked better.

Or are you referring to unevenness in the strokes such as the ones I've indicated with red arrows in this picture (http://home.online.no/~bjo-lae/aliasing/closeup_wobbly_lines.png)? I think that's either the result of them working in a resolution that is not an exact duplicate of the intended final resolution (1080 lines), or perhaps they did some poor-quality zooming after rasterizing a vector drawing, or perhaps the artist just can't draw very well. I'm just guessing.

That's another thing - I have no idea how often digital anime is vectorized as opposed to working directly with bitmap graphics, but some of the digital HD anime that I've seen - such as Ergo Proxy and Ah! Megami-sama - do look like they used vector drawings to me. I could be wrong though. Vectorizing would make sense for low cost high-res TV anime (but I'd personally prefer it if my anime looked more like paint on cels than flash animation). Anyway, if anyone knows more about that particular topic I'd be interested to know.

BTW, am I the only one who thinks it looks messy and chaotic when you have a bunch of strong, black strokes like this (http://home.online.no/~bjo-lae/aliasing/messy_closeup.png)?

I do like the character design for that wolf (?) girl though... in fact I'm almost tempted to pick this up just based on her design. :P Yeah, I'm that shallow. So, uh... is the story any good?

[Buster Darkwings]

This topic interests me, so I took the liberty of doing some illustrations. :)

Just to clarify, when y'all are discussing aliasing here, are we talking about stuff like this (http://home.online.no/~bjo-lae/aliasing/aliased.png) versus this (http://home.online.no/~bjo-lae/aliasing/anti-aliased.png)? (If not, the rest of my post is not going to make much sense...)

Hmm, the blockiness on the Simpsons and AIR looks more like the 1st pic I believe. At second glance, the previously posted pics of Utawaremono do seem to have artifacts not related to the anti-aliasing, but until I see it for myself on a display that can properly deinterlace 1080i, I can't say for sure if it's due to the encoding or the display.

[reboman]

I bought this last week, and recently upgraded to a 1080p TV. I don't know enough about deinterlacing and such things, Using a standalone Blu-Ray player, the BDP-S300, this looked really amazing. Granted, I've just watched the first episode so far, but I was really impressed. Even though it's listed as 1080i, it seemed much sharper and clearer than the 1080i advertised by cable, at least. [But maybe my cable just sucks.] It looks way better than the Air Blu-Ray DVDs, but that makes sense, I guess.

Anyway, I'll give this DVD set a recommendation, especially with Amazon's sale. Given the current sale (but unfortunately low exchange rate), it came out to $375 including shipping and credit card foreign transaction fee to the U.S. Of course, as above, given that I've only seen one episode, I can't comment on plot/series quality. It was a quick 22 minutes, though. I did find it odd that it had English subtitles, but no Japanese ones.

[Buster Darkwings]

I bought this last week, and recently upgraded to a 1080p TV. I don't know enough about deinterlacing and such things, Using a standalone Blu-Ray player, the BDP-S300, this looked really amazing. Granted, I've just watched the first episode so far, but I was really impressed. Even though it's listed as 1080i, it seemed much sharper and clearer than the 1080i advertised by cable, at least. [But maybe my cable just sucks.]

Your Sony Blu-Ray player can properly deinterlace 1080i discs and output it as 1080p. Your TV most likely can't do the same for 1080i cable (only certain models from major brands such as Sony and Sharp can do so), and cable is much more compressed.

[Skywise]

This has now been split up and released as separate discs:

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20090422_152953.html?ref=rss

Unfortunately they dropped the english subs and audio, so if anyone wants this release they should still get the box. I got mine for cheap used while in Japan thankfully.

[Quarkboy]

This has now been split up and released as separate discs:

http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20090422_152953.html?ref=rss

Unfortunately they dropped the english subs and audio, so if anyone wants this release they should still get the box. I got mine for cheap used while in Japan thankfully.

This is very odd...

Retail for Blu-ray box = 52,500 yen
Retail for each of 4 single blu-rays = 7,350

Which means the 4 singles are only 29,400 yen, about 45% off the box set. I mean, that's great and all for the fans but why not just price down the original box, or do what R1 does and make a stripped down thinpack?
What is the point of splitting up the four volumes? The only thing I can think of is for rental purposes, and selling to video rental stores.

[Skywise]

The only thing I can think of is for rental purposes, and selling to video rental stores.

That's probably why. The box is already produced and out into the retail channel, and they're not making more of it anyway.

[Quarkboy]

The only thing I can think of is for rental purposes, and selling to video rental stores.

That's probably why. The box is already produced and out into the retail channel, and they're not making more of it anyway.

But I can speak from experience that almost all Blu-ray releases are "not for rental" until nearly a year after their street date. Perhaps these will be the exception...

Also, there is not a very big market for blu-ray rental yet. At least in the Tsutaya that I've seen, the sections are tiny, only 2-3 shelves total.

[Skywise]

Umm.. street date was 01/23/08 - this is well over a year later.

[Buster Darkwings]

I don't really understand dropping the dub/subs, since I can't imagine that many people will buy the expensive box set over the singles just for that. Hardly any otaku in Japan care about them and there's not going to be that many people importing either version due to the cost. Re-authoring the discs seems like more trouble than it would be worth.

[Buster Darkwings]

But I can speak from experience that almost all Blu-ray releases are "not for rental" until nearly a year after their street date. Perhaps these will be the exception...

Many discs aren't available for rent at all, but when they are it's usually 6 months, at the most. Some BV discs have been available the same date as the retail versions, and this is usually the case for Hollywood flicks as well. Blu-ray has barely even been available for rental for much more than a year in Japan.


Also, there is not a very big market for blu-ray rental yet. At least in the Tsutaya that I've seen, the sections are tiny, only 2-3 shelves total.

It obviously depends on the store. I don't bother getting them from B&M locations anyways since Discas is much cheaper, and they currently have 208 discs. A bunch of BV TV series were recently added, including the Z Gundam box set discs.

[WTK]

Currently 31% off @ Amazon Japan (http://www.amazon.co.jp/dp/B000XJJMHA/).