I just watched Pale Cocoon 1

[Redcoffin]

Or was that "White Egg"? Anyway, it got me thinking that considering we're living in what is arguably the Silver Age of Japanese Animation (i.e. the overlap between truly functional digital tools and the lingering skills mastered before the industry started schlepping all the dog work off to Korea), it's amazing how much absolute shit gets made.

This would have made a fantastic hentai anime, in which the guy takes out his frustration at their shut in universe by engaging in frequent, enthusiastic sex and intellectually charged discourse with his charming and more than willing girlfriend, in various inappropriate post-cyberpunk venues. Unfortunately all that actually does happen is the characters stand around mooning and dreaming until somebody reveals the great hidden secret--a light-pop music video.

Sorry, just had to rant for a second there. I want those 27 minutes of my life back.

[pianocello]

Sorry, just had to rant for a second there. I want those 27 minutes of my life back.


This show was one of the most excruciatingly boring shows I've had the misfortune to watch. Too bad about the waste of great animation.

[HellKorn]

Why is there a "1" in the title?

This would have made a fantastic hentai anime, in which the guy takes out his frustration at their shut in universe by engaging in frequent, enthusiastic sex and intellectually charged discourse with his charming and more than willing girlfriend, in various inappropriate post-cyberpunk venues.

So you'd rather it conform to your expectations and/or clichéd cyberpunk drivel?

How does that rule go? Where you go into a story with preset expectations, thinking that due to the story's nature it should follow a certain route, and when it doesn't you come away disliking it?

Sorry, just had to rant for a second there. I want those 27 minutes of my life back.

To nit-pick: it's 23 minutes in length, including credits.

I admit to being shocked that you hate it so much (whereas piano's reaction is to be expected). If people find it "boring," alright -- but I'm lost on how it's "bad."

[HellKorn]

It seems like people are quite torn over Pale Cocoon.

Not really, considering how well it is rated on sites such as ANN and others in spite of how niche it is, and I've seen some favorable comments around here (http://www.animeondvd.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/19919/post/431417/hl/Pale+Cocoon/fromsearch/1/#431417) about it. Bloggers also generally speak high praise for it.

If you didn't like Pale Cocoon, I recommend checking out Mizu no Kotoba (Aquatic Language) made by the same guy, except shorter, and in my opinion, more clear and better overall.

Lost on how Aquatic Language is clearer and better than Pale Cocoon. PC has a coherent story -- there's nothing in the way of "pretentious" that some folks like to label such works that try to provoke thought. Its production values are also far, far better than AL; they're even superior to those in Voices of a Distant Star.

I love both Aquatic Language and Pale Cocoon, but for different reasons.

If it hasn't been made obvious by now, I love Pale Cocoon. Best animated short film I've ever seen, not to mention one of the best short films period. Takes a typical scenario and turns it on its head to to tackle themes untouched previously in anime.

This review (http://www.anime-planet.com/reviews/a310.html) captures my sentiments about the title rather well:

Most people will find it hard not to compare this 20 minute OVA to Hoshi no Koe; indeed, in many ways Pale Cocoon is the spiritual successor to the landmark 2002 anime. Each of them has absolutely stunning CGI and an overwhelming sense of nostalgia. Even more significantly, both use science fiction motifs to tell extremely melancholic tales that leave me dazed and breathless every time I watch them.

Up to now, I had always believed that Hoshi no Koe was a one time good deal – a unique and beautiful miracle that could never be replicated. No other anime could fit such a touching story into such a short running time; no other anime could break hearts with characters it had only just introduced. After seeing Pale Cocoon, however, I’m not so sure. While the OVA lacks Hoshi no Koe’s sheer unbridled emotional impact, Pale Cocoon is a much more complex and thought-provoking work.Many will take in the post apocalyptic world, the futuristic setting and the old newspaper clippings of human folly and assume that the OVA is another entry in a long line of cautionary environmentalist tales. This is not the case; rather, the movie presents us with a fascinating question practically untouched by any anime that I have seen.

Unfortunately, succinctly stating this question is difficult to do, as the very uniqueness of the OVA’s message eludes simple generalization. Allow me to say, however, that the OVA looks with a sad eye on humanity’s imperfection. It considers the shortsightedness and greed that so very often override our rationality, and then reflects upon our unwillingness to examine and understand our own ugliest mistakes. Then, at the end, the anime suggests that this depressing and “useless” knowledge of our own flawed heritage may be the most important knowledge of all. What’s most impressive is that the anime is able to do all of this and more in the time that most anime would take to come up with one coherent thought (i.e friends are precious, durr).

[Redcoffin]

This review (http://www.anime-planet.com/reviews/a310.html) captures my sentiments about the title rather well:

Most people will find it hard not to compare this 20 minute OVA to Hoshi no Koe; indeed, in many ways Pale Cocoon is the spiritual successor to the landmark 2002 anime. [..].

I respect the legitimacy and sincerity of these opinions, though I find them unfathomable. The admirably smooth animation in Pale Cocoon is wasted on the show. I saw no so-called message there that was not Cliff-noted from dozens of dreary anime OVAs going right back to Tenshi no Tamago in which inhibited, stone-faced characters wander about shadowy, incomprehensible settings amid a pervasive sense of gloomy immanence. The cynical part of me attributes this to (1) its perennial appeal to older teenagers who fancy themselves afflicted with existentialism and (2) the fact that faces that do not move are much easier to animate than faces registering human expressions, attitudes and emotions. Inarticulate characters are perfect masks for the inarticulateness of the creator.

Hoshi no Koe at least had lovely weather and a sentimental adolescent message of love and tragedy or something of that sort. I enjoyed it. It seemed honest. Pale Cocoon does not seem honest to me; instead it seems like someone trying to make a statement--without realizing that its statement boils down to something about as insightful as "crime is bad."

I am not kidding when I say I think this film would have been much improved by a heavy dose of raunchy sex. Notwithstanding one of the comments above, heady physical sensuality does not really characterize cyberpunk, a dead literary genre that was always typified by voyeurism.

[pianocello]

I respect the legitimacy and sincerity of these opinions, though I find them unfathomable. The admirably smooth animation in Pale Cocoon is wasted on the show. I saw no so-called message there that was not Cliff-noted from dozens of dreary anime OVAs going right back to Tenshi no Tamago in which inhibited, stone-faced characters wander about shadowy, incomprehensible settings amid a pervasive sense of gloomy immanence. The cynical part of me attributes this to (1) its perennial appeal to older teenagers who fancy themselves afflicted with existentialism and (2) the fact that faces that do not move are much easier to animate than faces registering human expressions, attitudes and emotions. Inarticulate characters are perfect masks for the inarticulateness of the creator.

Hoshi no Koe at least had lovely weather and a sentimental adolescent message of love and tragedy or something of that sort. I enjoyed it. It seemed honest. Pale Cocoon does not seem honest to me; instead it seems like someone trying to make a statement--without realizing that its statement boils down to something about as insightful as "crime is bad."




A truly insightful post. I can't help agreeing. Pale Cocoon seems like it was just pretending to be artsy without any direction.

I am not kidding when I say I think this film would have been much improved by a heavy dose of raunchy sex.

Heh. I really agree with that statement. :grin:

[Redcoffin]

I am not kidding when I say I think this film would have been much improved by a heavy dose of raunchy sex.

Heh. I really agree with that statement. :grin:


Great minds think alike! You go find ten million dollars and together we'll start an anime studio. :cool:

[HellKorn]

I respect the legitimacy and sincerity of these opinions, though I find them unfathomable. The admirably smooth animation in Pale Cocoon is wasted on the show. I saw no so-called message there that was not Cliff-noted from dozens of dreary anime OVAs going right back to Tenshi no Tamago in which inhibited, stone-faced characters wander about shadowy, incomprehensible settings amid a pervasive sense of gloomy immanence. The cynical part of me attributes this to (1) its perennial appeal to older teenagers who fancy themselves afflicted with existentialism and (2) the fact that faces that do not move are much easier to animate than faces registering human expressions, attitudes and emotions. Inarticulate characters are perfect masks for the inarticulateness of the creator.

I've never understood this kind of criticism because it's painting such stories with a broad brush -- it holds as much weight as Ebert's opinion of Lynch.

If you think that these type of stories (Pale Cocoon, Angel's Egg) fail because of the fact that the creators use the characters as vehicles to express ideas and not to really mold them as "persons" -- fine. They ain't yo' thang. But I don't see how it's a reflection of the creators' abilities, though. Asking for emotion to constantly be fed to the audience from characters in any fiction is ridiculous -- you're setting limitations in a medium by saying that "characters can't act this way because..." even if the story demands it.

And that's what Pale Cocoon does. The locals are tired. They are weary. They see no point in their jobs. They cannot put up with the overbearingly bleak, colorless surroundings. To expect anything less than that is asinine -- do you see photos of cheerful and expressive faces of those who live in morbid settings?

Yet Ura is different from the rest -- he continues to pursue investigations of the past. He wants to discover more. That drive is an integral part to the workings of the story.

Hoshi no Koe at least had lovely weather and a sentimental adolescent message of love and tragedy or something of that sort. I enjoyed it. It seemed honest. Pale Cocoon does not seem honest to me; instead it seems like someone trying to make a statement--without realizing that its statement boils down to something about as insightful as "crime is bad."

This is ironic BECAUSE Makoto Shinkai treats his characters exactly the same way. Let me spin it this way: Shinkai wants to present a theme about gradual growing distance along the lines of juvenile love in Voices of a Distant Star. Fair enough -- nothing amazing amazing, and it has been done before, but people seem to be more accepting of that universal theme than one about the environment or technology (generally, not specifically speaking). However, to illustrate this he has us suspend our belief to follow this girl that just has to be sent off on this war that we have no introduction to, simply with the knowledge that the action is set in space. Thus the tragedy is that the two would-be young lovers are torn apart, and by extension you have the boy changing over the years while the girl still remains younger.

One could view that as being forced, seriously contrived, and anything but subtle. Shinkai is taking an identifiable scenario and stretching it to an extreme. Why not question the "honesty" there?

Also, it's easy to generalize any message in any story to something that sounds trite. And it is impossibly difficult to find a message in a story not tackled before. Following your logic, would you then say that every anti-war film are completely redundant and shallow because they boil down to, "War is bad"?

Honestly, I'm less concerned with what the narrative amounts to than how the story arrives at it. If I worried about a story that is obviously trying to make a statement and deeming it a negative, then, say, I'd just give a big fuck you to bildungsroman. (And I don't even need to mention how damn common that is.)

I am not kidding when I say I think this film would have been much improved by a heavy dose of raunchy sex. Notwithstanding one of the comments above, heady physical sensuality does not really characterize cyberpunk, a dead literary genre that was always typified by voyeurism.


Adding in gratuitous sex would reek of uninspired cybperunk, and it would be solely that: gratuitous. Throwing what is almost always a shallow device in to a story like this wouldn't fit.

[HellKorn]

I am not kidding when I say I think this film would have been much improved by a heavy dose of raunchy sex.

Heh. I really agree with that statement. :grin:


Great minds think alike!

...

Uh, no comment. The above speaks for itself.

[leongsh]

It's highly commendable that you have come out strongly for Pale Cocoon. It's a short movie that is very nicely done - packing a lot into the same amount of time as one episode than a whole lot of anime shows with substantially more episodes that are out now.



I am not kidding when I say I think this film would have been much improved by a heavy dose of raunchy sex.

Heh. I really agree with that statement. :grin:


Great minds think alike!
...

Uh, no comment. The above speaks for itself.
You have to understand and appreciate that if you follow a number of posts that certain forum members have made, the fundamental underlying reason that shows like Pale Cocoon are generally disliked or called boring is because there's no pretty young girls/women front and centre (or as a significant supporting cast) in the anime. At the extreme end of it is piano cello conducting. He is well known to be mostly (and probably only) interested in yuri and the potential for it in the anime shows. No pretty girls/women in an anime show usually tends to result in these anime fans giving the show a thumbs down.

[roastedpekingduck]

The cynical part of me attributes this to (1) its perennial appeal to older teenagers who fancy themselves afflicted with existentialism

It's true that we older teenagers may be interested by existentialist themes but attributing liking those "pretentious works" to our "affliction with existentialism" is a tad bit extreme. For one, quite a few "older teenagers", in fact, I'd say the vast majority stay away from the more obtuse, "existentialist" stuff and instead are much more captivated by far more action-packed and titillating stuff.