Watching anime "raw"

[Element Jay]

How well are some of you at watching episodes raw, or without subtitles? Do you understand a little Japanese to know what's going on or do you rely on what's on the screen to "get" things?

I've only tried watching raws on a few occassions, and it seems like you can only understand the big picture just be the characters' actions and the acting involved. There are a few Japanese words that I can pick up while watching, but it's not really enough to catch on specific dialogue and plot details.

[The Great Bear]

I watch raws now and then (on R2 DVDs), but I don't have much in the way of comprehension. But then I enjoy looking at pretty pictures even if I don't understand most of what they're saying.

I'll visit spoiler blogs to fill in the missing context later.

[vtr9kvictor]

How well are some of you at watching episodes raw, or without subtitles? Do you understand a little Japanese to know what's going on or do you rely on what's on the screen to "get" things?

I've only tried watching raws on a few occassions, and it seems like you can only understand the big picture just be the characters' actions and the acting involved. There are a few Japanese words that I can pick up while watching, but it's not really enough to catch on specific dialogue and plot details.

12 (20+ if you count Speed Racer and Star Blazers) years of watching anime and close to 30 years of watching Godzilla movies has left me with barely any comprehension of the spoken Japanese language whatsoever, and even less of the written form. I only know a few phrases here and there, so watching raws to me is not something I am interested in at all.

[Lego]

For series that I'm accustomed with I can watch a raw and get the majority of the characters actions and feelings down. I did it with Gigantic Formula accompanied by the 2chan thread and I do it each new season to see what a show is like. I prefer subs or dubs to raws though.

[something]

I refuse to watch raw. I've tried it a few times, and it's just not terribly enjoyable. I can pick up some basic sentences and fill in a lot with context, more or less depending on the nature of the show. But my problem is that you only get one "first viewing" of an episode, and I do not want that viewing to be one of very limited comprehension. This is why I'm willing to wait a long, looooong time if need be, just to make sure I get some kind of translation. Even a mediocre translation is better than no translation (though generally this isn't an issue). I'd rather just not see a series at all than have to watch it raw.

[TAS]

I understand basic Japanese, I took first year Japanese but could never take the second year course because it always conflicted with a required course :( I have also used a couple of self study tools (most of them suck).

I prefer to have subtitles, but if the show is not to dialogue heavy (like a political drama) I can follow it. Most of the R2 DVDs I buy are the second viewing having already watched it fansbubbed but a few were not available fansubbed or were only partly fansubbed.

[Fudce]

I've only once (well three times if you count the episodes seperatly) watched anime raw, and that was today. Good timing on this post. As with something I'm usually a patient person, willing to wait for things, but in this case (and with Nosredna teasing me about a certain episode) I decided to catch up raw.
That's not to say I haven't used raws in the past. They're a good place to get avatars from OP/ED without all that karaoke nonsense plastered all over the good stuff.

[Element Jay]

I understand basic Japanese, I took first year Japanese but could never take the second year course because it always conflicted with a required course :( I have also used a couple of self study tools (most of them suck).
Just curious... how much are you able to understand after taking a first year Japanese course? From what I've heard, it seems like it can actually take a while for some people to understand the dialogue through taking classes.

[roastedpekingduck]

Strangely enough, while I used to have the same opinion as you, after following some raws, I find that I actually like watching raws first better. Why? As anime is a visual medium, good shows pack tons of visual nuances into the animation that I would not have noticed had I watched with subs first and was focusing on words instead of pictures. Watching raws allows me to solely concentrate on the animation aspect of anime. Good shows also tend to be very rewatchable, so I'm not quite negatively impacted by a second viewing.

[Shiroi Hane]

Back when Digimon Tamers first aired in the US and before it made the UK, when I was still on dialup, I obtained an .rm of the first episode and found it was in Japanese and didn't understand anything, but I watched it anyway. I basically continued watching the rest of the series that way alongside the american episodes (I never actually watched it when it reached UK TV since it was scheduled at akward times on akward channels but I bought the two VHS tapes that were released).
Nowadays I understand a bit more, and there are generally plenty of blogs and forum posts to make up for the rest. I don't tend to watch my raw R2 DVDs more than once however if subtitled alternatives are available.

[zoot]

Between two semesters back in college (with very scattered self-study since) and an effort to pay attention when watching shows, I can follow some shows with simpler dialog, which is fun. There are also plenty of jokes that just don't translate, and side notes make them understandable but usually not funny. (Potemayo: pan! pan! yarareta! got me laughing so hard I had to pause the show.)

Softsubs are handy, too; I can go back and watch a show raw after watching it subbed, which lets me watch more difficult shows and pick up vocabulary I couldn't otherwise.

Ghost Hound--not even going to try. (It's cool to listen to, though, if you understand enough to catch the dialect.) Clannad ep08 (this WS/PS release insanity is making me impatient) I could follow along, but it rolled over me (laughing derisively at me in the process, I suspect) repeatedly. Anything with wordplay, forget it ...

Too bad real speech doesn't have the clarity of a professional actor.

Drama tracks and songs are also fun to listen to, and gradually figure out.

I don't understand why the audio parts of Japanese textbook systems have speakers just as drab and boring as those of every other language, and "visual aids", like every other, stick figures hand-drawn by the writer. Pick up a wannabe seiyuu and some kid from Comiket and they'll do a better job at both than most any other language textbook.

[Splitter]

I watch it from time to time. It's great supplemental material for my Japanese courses.

[Nosredna]

I've only once (well three times if you count the episodes seperatly) watched anime raw, and that was today. Good timing on this post. As with something I'm usually a patient person, willing to wait for things, but in this case (and with Nosredna teasing me about a certain episode) I decided to catch up raw.

Me tease? No way :D . Okay, but you HAD to see that episode, I know you enjoyed it.

As for the original question, I first started watching raw's for one series when I realized it didn't even matter if I understood what was going on, the fanservice was more than enough to keep watching. I also watched the show Fudce mentioned raw, just because I was impatient and couldn't wait to see the next episodes.

[vanfanel]

All the time. I especially like to watch the old World Masterpiece Theater shows, because A) the dialogue is mostly pretty normal, down-to-earth stuff that's good to know in real life, and B) the DVDs all have closed-captioned Japanese subtitles, so I can follow along and read what I'm listening to. If DVDSubber scripts are available, I use them, but often they aren't.

I watched all of Nodame Cantabile during its TV run, and am almost done with Code Geass on rental DVD.

[Suwako Moriya]

I watch some raws despite lack of understanding due to impatience. That's what it boils down to for me.

[Njr Scrawl]

I go on expression, poise/body language, emotion to help with the little Japanese I know.

I always try & get some translation, but not having one to start with doesn't put me off buying R2 or R3, due to how quickly titles go OOP, especially LE etc. Naturally I'm selective about Asian releases I buy - the criterias usually being a favourite seiyuu, translated manga, or animation & character design.

[Spirit Of The Stage]

I watch Raws fairly regularly, and I dunno if it's just experience but I'm getting the hang of at least understanding the situations, even if I don't understand the words. I did one year self-learning of Japanese and will get back to it some day but it's not like you'll become a master of it anyways. As roastpekingduck said, the best reason to watch it raw is to enjoy the visual aspect even if you can't understand it, as subtitles can always be a problem in that regard.

And Nosrenda, Fudce, £10 and Fudce's avatar suggests I know EXACTLY which 3 episodes he was talking about like maybe eps 35-37 of Hayate - Nagi/Hayate in the bath...yep, gotta have the Hamster fanservice...wait...that sounds so wrong...^^

[jecca-neko]

I rarely watch shows raw because I'm typically patient enough to wait for a subtitled version (and usually patient enough to wait for a DVD even). When I do though I typically don't have much troubles. I understand enough Japanese and am good enough at figuring out the rest via context that I can do it just fine.

[Westlo]

I don't watch anime raws and probably never will, if I didn't do it for Baccano! I doubt I'll watch a raw for anything.

[Buckeye]

I'm totally lost when I watch something raw, which feels like I am watching a movie deaf. My understanding of Japanese is not good enough to enjoy it raw. Pretty much I did so when Japanese websites are streaming the first episode of the anime. Pretty much the only thing I can get are the character names, but other than that, I am at a loss.

[Suwako Moriya]

Good shows also tend to be very rewatchable, so I'm not quite negatively impacted by a second viewing.

On that note the more rewatchable I feel a series is the more likely I am to watch raw. In any case while some things require more understanding other things are universal. I don't need a translation to under the energy blast out of a character's hand caused damage to the opponent for example. Especially if they scream in pain...

[Nork22]

I can watch raw and understand some basic phrases here and there. If I don't understand some complicated stuff, I get my brother to translate what he understood or I just visit a blog to help fill the gaps.

[Fudce]

And Nosrenda, Fudce, £10 and Fudce's avatar suggests I know EXACTLY which 3 episodes he was talking about like maybe eps 35-37 of Hayate - Nagi/Hayate in the bath...yep, gotta have the Hamster fanservice...wait...that sounds so wrong...^^
Right, but my avatar isn't up for grabs (and I didn't take that bet)

Feel free to use one of my other ones from that episode though ;)

[Suwako Moriya]

Right, but my avatar isn't up for grabs (and I didn't take that bet)

I'd almost laugh if someone suddenly made his/her own version of that avatar. The classic "I can do it too" syndrome. Lucky for me it matters not what is up for grabs. *Power Trip*

[Nosredna]

Right, but my avatar isn't up for grabs (and I didn't take that bet)

You should have bet me, because I certainly didn't want it :D . And how come whenever the two of us post in a thread it always derails to pro/anti-Hamster Girl? :nervous:.

[Suwako Moriya]

And how come whenever the two of us post in a thread it always derails to pro/anti-Hamster Girl? :nervous:.

Because the Hamster Girl is just that famous or if you prefer infamous? Or it could be how dedicated Fudce is to Hamster Girl avatars. Either way if there has to be derail I'd prefer this to derail towards Bell Zephyr worship. However that's probably just me. Oh yeah Night Wizard is an example of a series I actually do watch raw. Same goes for Sketchbook ~Full Colors~. So I said something on topic. I'll go apologize later.

[Fudce]

Right, but my avatar isn't up for grabs (and I didn't take that bet)

You should have bet me, because I certainly didn't want it :D . And how come whenever the two of us post in a thread it always derails to pro/anti-Hamster Girl? :nervous:.
Because that is the way the world works. I'm a pro, you're just Anti.
:noodle:

I doubt I'll watch much more anime raw, unless I learn the language. I can pick up the general gist of what is happening, but in some series all you'd get is confusion.

[pianocello]

I have no problem watching raws. It's when they start getting into technical stuff like Kindaichi Case Files and Crest of the Stars that I don't find myself enjoying the show without subtitles.

[Dagger]

I watch stuff with relatively clear language raw (right now that includes Shugo Chara, ef and Clannad; some of the comedy in Clannad goes over my head, but I get all the dramatic parts, at least). Something like Gundam or other shows that go heavy on technical/political language are beyond me, though.

[TAS]

I understand basic Japanese, I took first year Japanese but could never take the second year course because it always conflicted with a required course :( I have also used a couple of self study tools (most of them suck).
Just curious... how much are you able to understand after taking a first year Japanese course? From what I've heard, it seems like it can actually take a while for some people to understand the dialogue through taking classes.

You get the basic syntax / grammar rules. Some basic vocab. Kana reading/writing and how to use a Japanese/English dictionary. They talk a bit about politeness level but you only really get standard business polite (I still remember another student getting his head chewed off for saying "Baka" in class). So just the basic ground level to build from but this helped me a LOT. Most of the self study stuff just throws stuff at you to memorize without any structure and you are expected to put it together your self. For me that's like trying to build a house on quicksand, I need a base to start from. The course was difficult but at the same time a lot of fun. I was pissed when I found that level II was always in conflict with one of my required core courses :(
www.japanesepod101.com is the best thing I've found for casual Japanese as it's not in any of the text books, and a lot of the dialogue in anime is casual.

One thing I do pick up from anime is the different ways word/phrase can be used in speech, for example if you watch Touch you will see every possible way that "Naru Hodo" can be used :)

[Element Jay]

You get the basic syntax / grammar rules. Some basic vocab. Kana reading/writing and how to use a Japanese/English dictionary. They talk a bit about politeness level but you only really get standard business polite (I still remember another student getting his head chewed off for saying "Baka" in class). So just the basic ground level to build from but this helped me a LOT.

Ahh, I see. So you guys don't really get into the kanji stuff at the beginning level, correct? Trying to get the basic mechanics of the language down is one thing, but it seems like embarking on the journey to memorize 2000 different characters is a near-impossible challenge unless you're free of any kind of time constraints.

I guess it also wouldn't be suprising to see a Japanese textbook not cover the common speech heard in anime, unless the anime happens to be one of those political or drama type shows. One of the things I'm weary about with learning Japanese formally, especially if the sole purpose was to watch anime raw, is having to learn both the polite and casual ways of speech.

Way too much effort for me, personally. :)

[something]

Ahh, I see. So you guys don't really get into the kanji stuff at the beginning level, correct? Trying to get the basic mechanics of the language down is one thing, but it seems like embarking on the journey to memorize 2000 different characters is a near-impossible challenge unless you're free of any kind of time constraints.
I took ~4 semesters of Japanese, but I never found language classes, in any language, to be particularly helpful. The moment you stop using it, you begin to forget it all. Even within a few days it gets much harder to remember things, so unless you can focus on your language classes, you might not get much out of it. If you're taking a language because it's related to your major or job or whatever, and you have real incentive to devote a lot of study time, then I guess it can be useful. But if it's just something you're taking because you want to, and you can't devote a LOT of time (because the core, required classes are difficult/labor intensive and have nothing to do with the language, then I don't know where it'll get you.

The most lasting benefit I got was that I can read katakana and hiragana pretty fast at this point, where it *almost* feels natural. Now in truth, anyone can teach themselves this in a few weeks easily, but how many people are going to if they're not presented with homework and tests and deadlines? Some, sure, but I wouldn't have. But once I was forced to do so, I got it down, and now that I look at the stuff every damn day because of japanese fanart sites and various things, it's sunk in for good.

But reading Japanese is impossible without kanji, and that's not something you can pick up in a few weeks and retain easily. Even by the end I had barely been introduced to any kanji, so I know almost none now.

And of course none of this helps in terms of listening to characters speak, especially when they throw dialects and casual speech and idioms and puns around. There ARE people that can somehow pick up massive amounts of vocab and grammar in a short amount of time (and I hate them for it), but... unless I'm ever able to put everything else in life aside and seriously study Japanese for a long time, I'm never going to be at a level where I'd feel comfortable relying on raws.

[TAS]

Ahh, I see. So you guys don't really get into the kanji stuff at the beginning level, correct? Trying to get the basic mechanics of the language down is one thing, but it seems like embarking on the journey to memorize 2000 different characters is a near-impossible challenge unless you're free of any kind of time constraints.
In first year we had a one day intro to kanji, and a few more came up at random. There were 5 on the final exam. I think 2nd year had about 160

I guess it also wouldn't be suprising to see a Japanese textbook not cover the common speech heard in anime, unless the anime happens to be one of those political or drama type shows. One of the things I'm weary about with learning Japanese formally, especially if the sole purpose was to watch anime raw, is having to learn both the polite and casual ways of speech.

There is also a high politeness mode. Like an underling talking to the boss, store staff talking to customers, and in anime maid shows.

The reason they only teach the standard politeness is that as a visitor to Japan it's ok to use in any situation. But if you start using other levels you better get them right!

[TAS]

I took ~4 semesters of Japanese, but I never found language classes, in any language, to be particularly helpful.
I HATED the required French class from grade 7-9, the teachers could not even speak French! I dropped it as soon as I could and got almost nothing from it. From what I understand the required English in some Japanese schools is just as bad (see Azumanga Daioh).

But the Japanese class was totally different. The professor was a native Japanese speaker (she grew up in Yokohama and Tokyo) and knew how to teach. I learned more, and remember more from that one year (or even the first month) then I did in my three years of French torture.

There ARE people that can somehow pick up massive amounts of vocab and grammar in a short amount of time (and I hate them for it)My Boss at my summer/part time job was like that, he already spoke five languages and decided to learn Chinese so he took a two week trip to Hong Kong and China. He came back speaking basic Chinese. One of our regular customers said "his Chinese is better then my English and it took me five years to learn this much, it's not fair!". Totally amazing and at the same time totally pissed me off that he could learn something in three minutes that took me hours of review.

[Element Jay]

From what I understand the required English in some Japanese schools is just as bad (see Azumanga Daioh).
I've heard that even a Japanese "English graduate" would still have a tough time speaking with foreigners, simply because their educational system doesn't focus on the conversational part of the language as much. But yeah, visiting the country of the language you want to study would essentially to force you to learn the it and make you set on being fluent.

And on that note, of the series I've watched raw and without subs, sometimes you can barely hear some of the English being spoken (the Japanese pronounciations sometimes cover up the English words). While I haven't seen the entire series, I'm sure if I were to watch something like Moe-tan raw, I'd still have to spend a little time to rewind and make sure what I just heard was an intentional English phrase.

[ibby]

I still know my Japanese that I learned way back in grade 5+6. I can only pick up the basic conversation, though I start to get lost beyond that.

[Jadawin]

To get a first impression, I usually watch some shows in raw format at the beginning of an anime season, so only the first episode of a series. Sometimes even only the first half of it.