Texhnolyze episode by episode discussion

[zaldar]

Ok I'm going to be discussing here my thoughts on Texhnolyze as I watch it. Please comment and if anyone wants to rewatch it (or watch it for the first time) with me please do. I will be putting my thoughts in the hide barrier so you can still check the thread even if you are behind in episodes. I will mark each section by the episode I am talking about and try to update this thread with the episodes I have seen. So far I have seen 7 episodes

Episode 1

Um yea that was odd. I thought lain was hard to understand at the beginning but it was nothing like this. I was expecting it since I had read Chris' review of the first disk but it was still strange very strange. I am not a very visual person so having so few words like that really struck me, it did make me pay attention to the visuals though. Wow do they set the tone as bleak right off the bat. I was actually able to follow the plot somewhat even without words but it was challenging. I like the art style so far gritty in the extreme but arthouse at the same time some how. Has there ever been another episode that had less words or does this hold the record. I don't think there were twenty in the entire episode.
Questions
1. The girl that seemed to be controlling him having his hand removed was that the same girl he was sleeping with (if you can call it that) earlier it looked somewhat the same but I wasn't sure even after going back and looking agin.

2. Were they supposed to be having sex? If so that wins the prize for the most untitilating sex scene ever. That has got to be worse than the eggs in Night shift nurse surly.

3. Was she putting her fingernail in his eye and did he throw her off when she did that and did that somehow cause her to orgasm? That bit made absolutely no sense to me at all.

4. Were we supposed to be able to tell why she was cutting off his arm? Was he supposed to throw the fight and didn't....or can we not tell at this point?

Ok going to watch the second episode now then I shall return.

[zaldar]

episode 2

well I don't think I have ever been more happy about having all my limbs but more depressed at the same time. Wow this is effecting. So we got a little more information about the world here. There seem to be at least two gangs at war with each other (no police or government in this world I suppose) and it was one of the gangs that removed the guys limbs but it seems like it may not have been authorized. I expect though no real proof yet that it was the gang leader that sent the woman out to find the man without limbs. What a scene that was him watching himself climb the stairs *shiver* nothing else I have seen has captured what it must feel like to be handicapped.
Moves slowly but so far the ride is worth it. One problem so far how exactly did he tie the turnicets on himself and would he really have had time to before he bled out?

If you haven't seen this you should check it out very well done so far but don't expect to be able to sit through a lot of it at one time. I'm going to watch something happy now before I go to bed.

[aagranov]

episode 2

well I don't think I have ever been more happy about having all my limbs but more depressed at the same time. Wow this is effecting. So we got a little more information about the world here. There seem to be at least two gangs at war with each other (no police or government in this world I suppose) and it was one of the gangs that removed the guys limbs but it seems like it may not have been authorized. I expect though no real proof yet that it was the gang leader that sent the woman out to find the man without limbs. What a scene that was him watching himself climb the stairs *shiver* nothing else I have seen has captured what it must feel like to be handicapped.
Moves slowly but so far the ride is worth it. One problem so far how exactly did he tie the turnicets on himself and would he really have had time to before he bled out?

If you haven't seen this you should check it out very well done so far but don't expect to be able to sit through a lot of it at one time. I'm going to watch something happy now before I go to bed.

Def episode #2 with Ichise climbing the stairs sans 2 limbs was very affecting. BTW, given the nature of this thread, we don't really need spoiler tags. I think it's implicitly understood that this is a spoiler thread, no?

[HellKorn]

Yeah, spoiler tags/whatever shouldn't be necessary.

Has there ever been another episode that had less words or does this hold the record.

No other individual anime episode comes to mind; however, Angel's Egg is famous for its lack of dialogue. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the entire movie has less lines than the first episode of Texhnolyze.

1. The girl that seemed to be controlling him having his hand removed was that the same girl he was sleeping with (if you can call it that) earlier it looked somewhat the same but I wasn't sure even after going back and looking agin.

Yes. It's the same female.

2. Were they supposed to be having sex? If so that wins the prize for the most untitilating sex scene ever. That has got to be worse than the eggs in Night shift nurse surly.

Yes, they were having sex.

Unlike the hentai title you mentioned, or most representations of sexuality in anime, the nudity and sex (for what little there is) in TEX isn't supposed to titillate.

3. Was she putting her fingernail in his eye and did he throw her off when she did that and did that somehow cause her to orgasm? That bit made absolutely no sense to me at all.

No.

Poking her partner's eye with her fingernails is apparently a form of sexual stimulation for her. Ichise obviously doesn't care for that and threw her off.

4. Were we supposed to be able to tell why she was cutting off his arm? Was he supposed to throw the fight and didn't....or can we not tell at this point?

Uh, it's pretty damn obvious that the reason why Ichise's arm is cut off is because she wanted revenge for knocking her off while having sex. She went pleading to her lover who is part of the yakuza-like organization (the Organo; see my post below) to go after him.

[HellKorn]

There seem to be at least two gangs at war with each other (no police or government in this world I suppose)

The gang that went after Ichise is the Organo. They're the current ruling gang of the city.

The group we saw go after the Elder of Gabe in episode one is the Salvation Union.

The Organo and Salvation Union are at odds with one another, as will soon be shown.

Gabe is another interest of focus, and another major group will be introduced in upcoming episodes. There's also one last significant party that won't be introduced until a little later down the line, along with another...

Well, there's a lot of different organizations to keep track of. All of them represent something; for now, I'll leave it to you to discern what.

and it was one of the gangs that removed the guys limbs but it seems like it may not have been authorized.

No. It is "authorized."

The head of the Organo, Onishi, arrives on the scene and is the one who shoots Ichise before leaving.

I expect though no real proof yet that it was the gang leader that sent the woman out to find the man without limbs.

You'll see in the upcoming episode.

One problem so far how exactly did he tie the turnicets on himself and would he really have had time to before he bled out?

It's actually possible for Ichise to have tied his limbs like that, in spite of his condition.

As for the possibility of him doing that before he bled to much, remember this: Ichise is very key to the show's point. You'll find more examples of him doing absolutely incredible feats in the future, and there's a reason why he's able to overcome such adversities whereas the rest of the cast is rather susceptible to injury and death (no Hollywood characters here).

[zaldar]

There seem to be at least two gangs at war with each other (no police or government in this world I suppose)

The gang that went after Ichise is the Organo. They're the current ruling gang of the city.

The group we saw go after the Elder of Gabe in episode one is the Salvation Union.

The Organo and Salvation Union are at odds with one another, as will soon be shown.

Gabe is another interest of focus, and another major group will be introduced in upcoming episodes. There's also one last significant party that won't be introduced until a little later down the line, along with another...

Well, there's a lot of different organizations to keep track of. All of them represent something; for now, I'll leave it to you to discern what.

and it was one of the gangs that removed the guys limbs but it seems like it may not have been authorized.

No. It is "authorized."

The head of the Organo, Onishi, arrives on the scene and is the one who shoots Ichise before leaving.

I expect though no real proof yet that it was the gang leader that sent the woman out to find the man without limbs.

You'll see in the upcoming episode.

One problem so far how exactly did he tie the turnicets on himself and would he really have had time to before he bled out?

It's actually possible for Ichise to have tied his limbs like that, in spite of his condition.

As for the possibility of him doing that before he bled to much, remember this: Ichise is very key to the show's point. You'll find more examples of him doing absolutely incredible feats in the future, and there's a reason why he's able to overcome such adversities whereas the rest of the cast is rather susceptible to injury and death (no Hollywood characters here).

the spoiler tags were for people that hadn't seen the episodes in question but still wanted to participate in the discussion with the earlier episodes (for example you have seen episode 1 but not 2 yet). I ran into this problem with my Haibane-Renmei thread.

So she cut off his arm because he wouldn't let her remove his eye...man remind me never to get involved with a woman in this town. I'll have to watch the episodes again to see if I can catch her talking to the leader to get permission. Very very good anime so far though definitely not something to watch a lot of in one sitting.

[zaldar]

Yeah, spoiler tags/whatever shouldn't be necessary.


3. Was she putting her fingernail in his eye and did he throw her off when she did that and did that somehow cause her to orgasm? That bit made absolutely no sense to me at all.

No.

Poking her partner's eye with her fingernails is apparently a form of sexual stimulation for her. Ichise obviously doesn't care for that and threw her off.

4. Were we supposed to be able to tell why she was cutting off his arm? Was he supposed to throw the fight and didn't....or can we not tell at this point?

Uh, it's pretty damn obvious that the reason why Ichise's arm is cut off is because she wanted revenge for knocking her off while having sex. She went pleading to her lover who is part of the yakuza-like organization (the Organo; see my post below) to go after him.

Really where is that scene I missed it even when I watched through the episodes again. Episodes three and four were quite interesting...see my posts below I am glad I have this place to discuss this anime....

[zaldar]

Episode three

Well this is interesting. I can see why you would want to keep the cells of your dead mother alive or perhaps your father not sure exactly which one the cells are supposed to be from could be either I suppose. But to have them installed as an integral part of your replacement arm *shiver* that would be very strange. The phases she went through in talking about the technology are also very interesting.[/code]

Episode four
[hide]Ok it just seems like the doctor happened across him though she had been warned about it before and not to pick him up. Looks like she completely ignored that. I love the slip she made when she called him a test subject. The whole idea that she is somehow sexually titalated by the replacement of limbs is just....odd...but then I have yet to find a normal character in this anime (not that that is a bad thing). Even the man who came down the stairs is odd first for coming down the stairs in the first place, I'd be leaving not coming. Second he obviously can take care of himself physically but seems loath to do so. Maybe martial arts training along with the associated philosophy? Then there is the bag being very important to him, will be interesting to see what that is about. Somewhat difficult at times to see what Ran sees or does not see but so far I "think" I have been able to decipher it. What is with the fox mask she wears. I am sure there is a cultural thing I am missing there. Fox gods represent what in Japanese mythology/religion? Tricksters? As dangerous as the city is I am surprised Ran is able to walk around as she is. Is this because of her relationship with the sage, her ability or both I wonder? Met another gang the ranka will be interesting to see what they are about, wonder if the fact their name is so close to Rans is important?

[HellKorn]

I'll have to watch the episodes again to see if I can catch her talking to the leader to get permission.

She is never shown talking to anyone about revenge, it's just blatantly implied that she fetched her lover, who is part of the Organo, to go after Ichise.

Very very good anime so far though definitely not something to watch a lot of in one sitting.

Heh, I actually finished Texhnolyze over two days the first time I saw it.

[HellKorn]

I can see why you would want to keep the cells of your dead mother alive or perhaps your father not sure exactly which one the cells are supposed to be from could be either I suppose.

It's the cells of his dead mother.

The phases she went through in talking about the technology are also very interesting.

Pay special attention when Doc mentions the "black magic" phase. It's important to consider and will come up later.

I love the slip she made when she called him a test subject.

Don't forget this, as her development down the line will show some interesting conflicts with this.

The whole idea that she is somehow sexually titalated by the replacement of limbs is just....odd...

There's a reason why episode three is called, "Texhnophile."

but then I have yet to find a normal character in this anime (not that that is a bad thing).

Given the extreme conditions and general human behavior, the characters so far are presented as realistic. The only two real enigmas are Ran and an even more vital care set to appear in the second half of the show, but there's reasoning behind that, as well.

Second he obviously can take care of himself physically but seems loath to do so.

At this point Ichise is incredibly untrusting of others and doesn't like to be in groups. Pay attention to that as the series goes along.

Somewhat difficult at times to see what Ran sees or does not see but so far I "think" I have been able to decipher it.

Which is?

Fox gods represent what in Japanese mythology/religion? Tricksters?

If I'm not mistaken, foxes do have a relationship with fooling people. However, Ran's purpose in the story seems to be more of a spiritual one.

From Geneon USA's website: "In Japanese society, the fox, is considered to be the guardian deity of farming (rice fields) by some, because the animal eats field mice that often damage or destroy crops. This guardian deity may signify some special power in Gabe, which is an agrarian community, as well?"

As dangerous as the city is I am surprised Ran is able to walk around as she is. Is this because of her relationship with the sage, her ability or both I wonder?

This will be answered in later episodes.

Met another gang the ranka will be interesting to see what they are about, wonder if the fact their name is so close to Rans is important?

The Rakan share no relationship, story or thematically, with Ran.

[zaldar]

I'll have to watch the episodes again to see if I can catch her talking to the leader to get permission.

She is never shown talking to anyone about revenge, it's just blatantly implied that she fetched her lover, who is part of the Organo, to go after Ichise.

Very very good anime so far though definitely not something to watch a lot of in one sitting.

Heh, I actually finished Texhnolyze over two days the first time I saw it.

Man did you go off the deep end after that? I caught the technophile bit from the title made me laugh. The black magic phase was odd in that it didn't fit the very sci-fi nature of the show so far. Where was it blantently implied that she got her lover to cut off his arm simply because she was there? I mean it makes sense when proposed but I didn't see much of it in the show itself.

Ok for what Ran is seeing so far I think she saw when the sage was going to be killed which MAY have been changed due to the involvement of the stranger or perhaps it just hasn't happened yet. It also seems that she "saw" the little bit in the end where the main character was upset with his new mommy limbs *shiver* and tries to attack the Doctor. I am not sure yet if that actually happened or we saw her vision and that still might change.

The city is agrarian? I missed that it certainly didn't look that way given as there are no fields as far as I can tell.

So why is Ichise incredibly untrusting or can we tell at this point. Not sure I would say he is really as he helped the sage without any thought. I can see being scared because of his location though I would be to given what the surface world must have heard about this town.

[zaldar]

As well will watching any of the extras on the first disk spoil anything? Should I not watch the interview until after I have seen the entire series?

[roastedpekingduck]

Heh, I actually finished Texhnolyze over two days the first time I saw it.
I watched Texhnolyze in one day when my parents were home two years ago. Being the little idiot rebel I was, I popped open a bottle of Chardonnay, slouched back and began watching. By the end of my little session, it was 4 a.m and I was twitching due to how much the last few episodes just exhausted me. I have not watched Texhnolyze since...

I tried a similar stunt with Lain while my parents were home. While the alcohol "enchanced" my experience of Lain as I pushed into the wee hours of the morning, I was never able to duplicate that experience I got with Texhnolyze.

[zaldar]

Heh, I actually finished Texhnolyze over two days the first time I saw it.
I watched Texhnolyze in one day when my parents were home two years ago. Being the little idiot rebel I was, I popped open a bottle of Chardonnay, slouched back and began watching. By the end of my little session, it was 4 a.m and I was twitching due to how much the last few episodes just exhausted me. I have not watched Texhnolyze since...

I tried a similar stunt with Lain while my parents were home. While the alcohol "enchanced" my experience of Lain as I pushed into the wee hours of the morning, I was never able to duplicate that experience I got with Texhnolyze.


I can understand not watching it sense with that kind of experience...

The first anime I saw was at 4am (I didn't want to watch American Gladiators) and I caught Vampire Hunter D half way through with no idea it was anime or what anime was. I kept watching it because I thought it might eventually start to make sense (and the violence level and artistry was like nothing I had ever seen before) I think I said out loud after it ended what the *&^ was that? I didn't watch anime for four years after that. I don't want to think what would have happened if texhnolyze was my first introduction.

Edit: oh and would you want to recreate your first experience with texhnolyze...I'm not sure I would call what you described as enjoyable.

[roastedpekingduck]

Heh, I actually finished Texhnolyze over two days the first time I saw it.
I watched Texhnolyze in one day when my parents were home two years ago. Being the little idiot rebel I was, I popped open a bottle of Chardonnay, slouched back and began watching. By the end of my little session, it was 4 a.m and I was twitching due to how much the last few episodes just exhausted me. I have not watched Texhnolyze since...

I tried a similar stunt with Lain while my parents were home. While the alcohol "enchanced" my experience of Lain as I pushed into the wee hours of the morning, I was never able to duplicate that experience I got with Texhnolyze.


I can understand not watching it sense with that kind of experience...

The first anime I saw was at 4am (I didn't want to watch American Gladiators) and I caught Vampire Hunter D half way through with no idea it was anime or what anime was. I kept watching it because I thought it might eventually start to make sense (and the violence level and artistry was like nothing I had ever seen before) I think I said out loud after it ended what the *&^ was that? I didn't watch anime for four years after that. I don't want to think what would have happened if texhnolyze was my first introduction.

Edit: oh and would you want to recreate your first experience with texhnolyze...I'm not sure I would call what you described as enjoyable.
I'm happy I tried the stunt. After Texhnolyze finished, there was the huge, immense "Oh shit, that was deep!" feeling that swept over me. For a while, I just mired in that feeling before piecing things together. That last ending scene with its credits left me sitting there for half an hour before I finally got up and went to bed.

[HellKorn]

Man did you go off the deep end after that?

Had a similar reaction to most who are emotionally invested in the show, but it didn't last long. (Not really hung up on fiction in that regard as some are.)

Compared to most, I find it rather easy to re-watch some "dark and depressing" titles, such as TEX and Jin-Roh. There's a certain inherent quality that draws me to them and view them over and over again; strangely, I've only watched Grave of the Fireflies once.

The black magic phase was odd in that it didn't fit the very sci-fi nature of the show so far.

Don't think of TEX as strictly as a sci-fi show. It's very spiritual and will not work if you view it as a purely straightforward story. It's highly allegorical and imbues mysticism, which becomes even more evident in its second half.

Where was it blantently implied that she got her lover to cut off his arm simply because she was there?

Her attire, the fact that she is texhnolyzed (texhnolyzation in Lux is considered a form of power and status), and that she is there to witness Ichise's punishment with the Organo is evident of that.

Ok for what Ran is seeing so far I think she saw when the sage was going to be killed which MAY have been changed due to the involvement of the stranger or perhaps it just hasn't happened yet.

No, Ran's vision shown her the Sage of Gabe being shot by one of the Salvation Union's members. However, the incident is prevented by her warning and Yoshii's intervention.

Her lack of infallibility as the Seer is clear from the beginning, and the Sage remarks as such. Though this only pertains to early series' events; there are subtle clues later on that hint there is growing accuracy as the Seer matures.

It also seems that she "saw" the little bit in the end where the main character was upset with his new mommy limbs *shiver* and tries to attack the Doctor. I am not sure yet if that actually happened or we saw her vision and that still might change.

Don't remember that at all.

The city is agrarian?

No, Gabe is agrarian. There will be more viewings of that area to come later.

So why is Ichise incredibly untrusting or can we tell at this point. Not sure I would say he is really as he helped the sage without any thought. I can see being scared because of his location though I would be to given what the surface world must have heard about this town.

Sorry, misread that and thought you were referring to Ichise (the main character who is punished by the Organo). You're referring to the man in the orange suit who came down from the surface world, Yoshii.

Ichise is untrusting because of his upbringing. More of his past will become clearer as the series goes on.

Yoshii, on the other hand, has a completely different agenda. He emits a sort of charisma that is largely absent from many of the denizens of Lux. His intentions will become clear very, very soon.

And you'll learn more about the surface world later on.

[HellKorn]

As well will watching any of the extras on the first disk spoil anything? Should I not watch the interview until after I have seen the entire series?

The interview on the first disc doesn't spoil any events, though it's quite insightful. Ueda and ABe's answers are rather interesting.

[HellKorn]

I have not watched Texhnolyze since...

But you rrreeealy should.

And your folks don't allow you a bit of alcohol? Pfft.

[aagranov]

Heh, I actually finished Texhnolyze over two days the first time I saw it.
I watched Texhnolyze in one day when my parents were home two years ago. Being the little idiot rebel I was, I popped open a bottle of Chardonnay, slouched back and began watching. By the end of my little session, it was 4 a.m and I was twitching due to how much the last few episodes just exhausted me. I have not watched Texhnolyze since...

I tried a similar stunt with Lain while my parents were home. While the alcohol "enchanced" my experience of Lain as I pushed into the wee hours of the morning, I was never able to duplicate that experience I got with Texhnolyze.

Ah to be a teenager... The most intense anime session I've ever done is 4-5 hours.

[zaldar]

Man did you go off the deep end after that?

Had a similar reaction to most who are emotionally invested in the show, but it didn't last long. (Not really hung up on fiction in that regard as some are.)

Compared to most, I find it rather easy to re-watch some "dark and depressing" titles, such as TEX and Jin-Roh. There's a certain inherent quality that draws me to them and view them over and over again; strangely, I've only watched Grave of the Fireflies once.

I haven't even watched Now and Then here and there again and I expect that is not nearly as dark as this.

The black magic phase was odd in that it didn't fit the very sci-fi nature of the show so far.

Don't think of TEX as strictly as a sci-fi show. It's very spiritual and will not work if you view it as a purely straightforward story. It's highly allegorical and imbues mysticism, which becomes even more evident in its second half.

Good to know. I was wondering why it hadn't been recommended for sci-fi anime yet.

Where was it blantently implied that she got her lover to cut off his arm simply because she was there?

Her attire, the fact that she is texhnolyzed (texhnolyzation in Lux is considered a form of power and status), and that she is there to witness Ichise's punishment with the Organo is evident of that.

Ok I'll buy that. We did see the man who cut is his arm off talking on the phone and fingering a sword at one point thought that might have been what you are reffering to.

Ok for what Ran is seeing so far I think she saw when the sage was going to be killed which MAY have been changed due to the involvement of the stranger or perhaps it just hasn't happened yet.

No, Ran's vision shown her the Sage of Gabe being shot by one of the Salvation Union's members. However, the incident is prevented by her warning and Yoshii's intervention.

Her lack of infallibility as the Seer is clear from the beginning, and the Sage remarks as such. Though this only pertains to early series' events; there are subtle clues later on that hint there is growing accuracy as the Seer matures.

It also seems that she "saw" the little bit in the end where the main character was upset with his new mommy limbs *shiver* and tries to attack the Doctor. I am not sure yet if that actually happened or we saw her vision and that still might change.

Don't remember that at all.

This took place at the end we see him getting off the table and attacking her saying something like "you call this thing my arm" she says something like "you are not yourself yet the anesthesia hasn't worn off yet" Then we cut to Ran who is in the picture but no one else sees her and she says "I saw it".

So why is Ichise incredibly untrusting or can we tell at this point. Not sure I would say he is really as he helped the sage without any thought. I can see being scared because of his location though I would be to given what the surface world must have heard about this town.

Sorry, misread that and thought you were referring to Ichise (the main character who is punished by the Organo). You're referring to the man in the orange suit who came down from the surface world, Yoshii.

Ichise is untrusting because of his upbringing. More of his past will become clearer as the series goes on.

Yoshii, on the other hand, has a completely different agenda. He emits a sort of charisma that is largely absent from many of the denizens of Lux. His intentions will become clear very, very soon.

And you'll learn more about the surface world later on.

Cool. Yea I'm not sure we have found out the main characters name yet...

Edit: Sorry but some of my responses are in your quote box...have yet to figure out exactly how to work things here yet..

Edit 2: I will be leaving for my parents house tommorow. I may take this and watch some of it there but will try to take other stuff to watch since I don't have an internet connection there I don't want to watch this without being able to post.

[MajinVejita]

Excellent show. I watched this recently since I got it for incredibly cheap from RightStuf's last Geneon sale, and was very happy I did. I enjoyed it more than Lain, personally.

As for your questions, Texhnolyze is definitely a series to watch all the way through before asking questions. A lot that isn't clearly stated in the beginning is wrapped up by the end (though it does have quite a bit of interpretation required).

I think I finished it in roughly a week, FWIW.

-Corey

[zaldar]

Excellent show. I watched this recently since I got it for incredibly cheap from RightStuf's last Geneon sale, and was very happy I did. I enjoyed it more than Lain, personally.

As for your questions, Texhnolyze is definitely a series to watch all the way through before asking questions. A lot that isn't clearly stated in the beginning is wrapped up by the end (though it does have quite a bit of interpretation required).

I think I finished it in roughly a week, FWIW.

-Corey

Gah I'm 29 so I should be part of the "internet generation" but I just recently started texting on my phone (I still prefer calling) and I have no idea what FWIW stands for..sigh

Thanks for joining the conversation! Feel free to talk about each episode individually if you like (and can avoid spoilers) I have really become addicted to talking about shows as I watch them. I thought I was an introvert but I think I am more of a frustrated extrovert as I have gotten older and have either learned to interact with my peers better (or become better at finding peers more like myself) I have really become much more extroverted.

[CGord]

FWIW = for what it's worth.

I've watched this series once, was stumped by the ending, bought the series during a RightStuf 25 for $100 sale earlier this year, & it is in the "to watch" pile for a 2nd round.

[zaldar]

FWIW = for what it's worth.

I've watched this series once, was stumped by the ending, bought the series during a RightStuf 25 for $100 sale earlier this year, & it is in the "to watch" pile for a 2nd round.


Feel free to start watching it agin and comment on it as you go! I gave the first DVD to a friend today the response was interesting. We watched it dubbed which was even more interesting.

I am going to be doing that agian and commenting here on important differences I see in them (focusing on what may be potential of thematic importance). Others are requested to comment.
Especially those with some knowledge of Japanese. I have no knowledge what so ever.

[zaldar]

Ok as promised here are my thoughts on the differences in the sub versus the dub in the first four episodes. Not sure if I will be watching both in the next four episodes or not. Watching it in English with English subtitles is just so weird...I almost wanted to ask in a general thread which is more accurate usually with the translation subs or dubs but I didn't want to start that argument again..Sub will be listed first followed by the dub then I will comment

Episode 1
An uninvited guest or a welcomed guest/an uninvited guest or is it a welcomed guest or perhaps both.

The duality here in the dub quote is interesting I always thought he was supposed to be a mysterious character. It is even more interesting when paired with a quote from the second episode.

Episode 2
Here the scene where the leader of the main gang shoots the main character is handeled very differently in the dub than in the sub with important thematic and character differences.

But one of the choices is to continue his life with an unsightly appearance/But it is my choice weather one has to live needlessly or not.

The difference between these two still amazes me. The sub makes it look like it his our main characters choice to kill himself or not the second makes it look like the leader is sparing him.

In the dub the organo leader reffers to certain people as scum in the sub he refrers to them as cattle. These words have very different conitations..you can stop being a cattle by following your own road becoming a leader.

In the scene where the leader of the Raka is passing our main character on the street his friend calls him stumpy on the street, this isn't in the sub (probably added to make him seem even more evil?)

When the visitor is leading the sage
Is your journey down to Lukss a good thing for you as well as us or a bad thing for you as well as us? Ron must have already seen one of the answers./Is your juourney down to Lukss possibly a good thing for both of us or a bad thing for both of us. Ron must know the answer but which one is it?

The dub here leaves out the possibility that the answer is both or at least that the is more than one answer. I can't help thinking that this duality is important (mostly from my experience with other anime). I find it odd the duality is present in the dub when he is talking about being both a welcome and unwelcome guest but not in the sub.

Episode three
in the train when the visitor is telling Ran not to tell anyone his future in the dub he says especially me rather than including me.

When the salvation army is attempting to assassinate the organo leader in the dub he says wake up and smell the world where the sub has it don't behave like a spoiled child.

The former here seems to fit better with the salvation union being shown a dose of reality and the organo considering them religous fanatics.

When the doctor is telling our main character where the cells from his mother are.

Its in there/she is in there

The dub makes the doctor sound much less considerate here..calling his mother an it rather than a she. Though as seen in episode four the dub really does play up the evilness of the doctor.

Episode four.
When the doctor is operating on our main character.

I'd like to have a mutual understanding with my test subjects I'm sorry my patients/I need cooperation from my test subjects.

Here again the dub has her denying the humanity of those she works on.

When the leader of the organo is confronting the salvation union

All of the salvation union are of one heart and one flesh/all of the salvation union are of one heart and one soul.

ok wow this is incredibly different. The dub seems to fit more with the religous nature of the group but if their leader really is just using them to control the resoucre..and blood brothers only implies one flesh rather than one soul.

When the visitor has his bag stolen and is confronting the thieves

Please don't be rough with it/Come on you better give it back.

The dub here makes him sound much more like a bad &*^ which fits better really what he does in the next scene..still I don't know he has seemed to have a more pacifist nature (only attacking when attacked) than the dub seems to imply in the past..

The leader of the Rakka a couple scenes later

Shut up and keep your mouth shut/shut up and stay down.

Ok the dub wins here...Shut up and keep your mouth shut being redundant.

When the doctor is talking to the main character after having replaced his arm and leg

Thats the kind of existence I have granted you/know that you owe your existance to me

The sub makes it seem like she realizes he would have survived (though not as well) without a new arm and leg.

So what I am asking here is which is closer to showing appropraitly the themes of the anime the sub or the dub? Also if anyone knows japanese and can comment on the translations from the perspective please do so!

[zaldar]

Ok first in the end of episode four Ran definitly says I saw it after we see our main character attack the doctor. Well after we hear it since the whole scene is blacked out (because the main character can't see, to show that ALL of it is part of rans vision not just him walking past her dragging his new arm and leg?) I can't help but think this is important some how...

We see the organo leader make two phone calls in these episodes but we never see directly who he is calling. Is he supposed to be calling the two people who we see taking phone calls? They never say anything though and on the leaders end it did look like in both instances who ever he was talking to said something. If it isn't the leader who was calling the doctor before she got all dressed up to find her next experimental subject?

Why did our main character leave the food he was given behind after his arm and leg were removed? Was he asking for food the way he was sitting there with his money in his mouth?

Watching some more episodes later today will post about them when I do.

[zaldar]

Man this anime is wonderful. I can't think of an anime that has given me chills during every episode. There have been a few like Haibane-Renmei and Eva that give me chills are certain points (Haibane-Renmei at every other episode all most eva only toward the end). But I haven't seen one like this. If it keeps this up I'm going to have to add another + to it in my signiture and add it to my list of favorite anime. I am probably getting close here to bumping my own thread to much but I suppose someone will tell me when I cross the line of good taste. Anyway my thoughts on episode five. Spoilers follow:







Man are there any good people in this anime? I used to think that Yoshii was a good guy but with his talk of living energy and killing everyone to set them free since any thing less would be a half measure. (This is of course assuming he did kill the whore looked like he did but I wasn't sure completely). I was actually reminded of an old folk song here about Nicaragua I believe with the line "killing the people to set them free who set this price on their liberty".

I thought it was about to go generic when Ichise ended up in the sewer I had visions of him coming to terms with his new limbs, learning they gave him some kind of mystical power killing a few mutant rates and going up three levels (insert bad console RPG joke here). I should have trusted them better than that.

Having Ran use the flowers to show him the way out and then petting him like she considered him some sort of pet was interesting, not sure what to make of that yet. Ran is a very mysterious character, looking forward to seeing how they develop her.

[HellKorn]

Man are there any good people in this anime?

Yes and no. At the point where you're at... uh, difficult to say without spoiling.

I used to think that Yoshii was a good guy but with his talk of living energy and killing everyone to set them free since any thing less would be a half measure.

Yoshii has his reasons, some very frighteningly valid ones as will be discovered later.

And if you think the series is tense now, just wait -- the creators up the ante a hell of a lot in these subsequent episodes.

Having Ran use the flowers to show him the way out and then petting him like she considered him some sort of pet was interesting, not sure what to make of that yet.

Never considered that as a gesture of "petting an animal," even there is some irony from that perspective (i.e. Ichise the stray dog).

That scene in episode five where Ran guides Ichise out of the sewers with her flowers really defines the series. It's an interesting mixture of old archetypes such as Plato's allegory of the cave, as well as Buddhism symbolism (look up what the lotus flower means to that religion).

It's also amazing how it manages to tie in with the last episode... though I obviously won't spoil that.

Finally, not certain when it's mentioned, but somewhere early in the series (episode six, I believe) there is narration about the eyes of the denizens of Lux. That is VERY important to understanding not just the story but the main point to Texhnolyze. Keep it in the back of your mind as you continue.

Ran is a very mysterious character, looking forward to seeing how they develop her.

Her and one other character serve as "gods" for the series. Their ambiguity helps further this notion.

[zaldar]

Interesting....I'm looking forward to continuing tomorrow. Any thoughts on the differences in the dub with the sub...

If Ran serves as some sort of God for the series than I can see how the petting would make even more sense (though I suspect the other god might be him..not sure yet though). I'll have to look up the stuff about the lotus. Any thoughts on the phone conversations? (thanks for participating!)

[HellKorn]

Any thoughts on the differences in the dub with the sub...

Don't remember any differences.

It's well-done if too polished. None of the English voice actors seem to be pushing themselves, aside from Justin Gross as Ichise.

But, uh, ABe's works seem to strike me as the type to watch in the original Japanese (which is my general preference), so you're better off asking someone else.

If Ran serves as some sort of God for the series than I can see how the petting would make even more sense (though I suspect the other god might be him..not sure yet though).

No, Ichise represents a different figure. What he symbolizes without the Buddhist context has already been made clear, and what he symbolizes within the Buddhist context is revealed towards the end.

Also, the other "God-like" character hasn't been introduced yet. You'll see them in due time.

Any thoughts on the phone conversations?

If my memory doesn't fail me, isn't it simply Onishi talking to other respective members of the Organo and Doc up until this point?

[zaldar]

Any thoughts on the differences in the dub with the sub...

Don't remember any differences.

It's well-done if too polished. None of the English voice actors seem to be pushing themselves, aside from Justin Gross as Ichise.

But, uh, ABe's works seem to strike me as the type to watch in the original Japanese (which is my general preference), so you're better off asking someone else.

If Ran serves as some sort of God for the series than I can see how the petting would make even more sense (though I suspect the other god might be him..not sure yet though).

No, Ichise represents a different figure. What he symbolizes without the Buddhist context has already been made clear, and what he symbolizes within the Buddhist context is revealed towards the end.

Also, the other "God-like" character hasn't been introduced yet. You'll see them in due time.

Any thoughts on the phone conversations?

If my memory doesn't fail me, isn't it simply Onishi talking to other respective members of the Organo and Doc up until this point?


A couple posts up I go through the differences I found in watching them both, some which seemed to have thematic importance. Check those posts out. I generally watch in the original Japanese as well but the friend I was showing the first couple episodes to does not so I watched them dubbed with him.

Hmm I had pretty much decided that Ichise represented Buddha...besides being just a throw away individual that is being used to further the doctors designs I can't place a thematic importance to him yet outside the buddhist context I'm sure I'll be able to soon though.

On the phone conversations do we only see 1 side or are we seeing both sides but at different times? The call to the Doctor is it the conversation he has with her that causes her to go out and find Ischie (when we see her take down her hair) or is that a different conversation?

[HellKorn]

Eh, I'm feeling lazy, so I'll restrict my comments to the original Japanese dub.

Hmm I had pretty much decided that Ichise represented Buddha...

Yes and no. Once you're done search for the last two Texhnolyze threads that were started up; I think one poster managed to catch the creator's intent for Ichise from a Buddhist perspective.

besides being just a throw away individual that is being used to further the doctors designs I can't place a thematic importance to him yet outside the buddhist context I'm sure I'll be able to soon though.

Seriously? Ichise is a very straightforward character. Just consider his actions and take them completely at face-value.

On the phone conversations do we only see 1 side or are we seeing both sides but at different times? The call to the Doctor is it the conversation he has with her that causes her to go out and find Ischie (when we see her take down her hair) or is that a different conversation?

Does this happen before or after Doc stumbles upon Ichise? There's your answer.

[zaldar]

I really need to learn how to do the pull out quotes mixed with response like you all do..

Well taking Ichise at face value he seems to have abandoned his fathers work and what his father made after seeing how his father was turned on. I won't say he identifies with the religous community in the city but probably closer than anyone else he seems to despise texhnolyzation in all its forms.

Other than that he just seems like a down on his luck kid trying to survive and keep his memory of his mother alive as best as he can.

I can't say ye wether or not he takes an enjoyment from violence or if he is just doing it to survive but he did seem to be having some fun in the match in the opening show.

Now for the phone conversations...I am begining to think placing things in linear time in this show may be a bit difficult....

It seems that both ends of the conversation took place before the doctor came across him. However we see the conversation Onishi is having (where he talks about strong scientific curiosity) then we see several other scenes and toward the end we see the doctor with the phone ringing not saying anything and taking down her hair...

Now in most the in-between scenes would indicate these were two different conversations taking place at different times...not so sure here though.

QUESTION FOR MODS:
When I watch the entire show and I find the older threads if I want to comment on something that was said in those threads should I just link to it from this thread or should I revive the older threads what is accepted practice? Thanks

[HellKorn]

I really need to learn how to do the pull out quotes mixed with response like you all do..

I'm really terrible at explaining things, so bear with me.

Just place the poster's comments in between the [/quote*] brackets. If you wish to respond to a different part of their post, just separate that comment, close the first comment with [/quote*]. Then, for the next one, before the beginning of the next comment place a [quote*] and then where you wish to finish the comment close it with [/quote*]. Do likewise for any other specific comments you wish to reply to.

Of course, do not include the *.

[quote]trying to survive

There. Consider that. TEX stresses VERY importantly the will to live. But it's not so simple as that, as future development will show.

I can't say ye wether or not he takes an enjoyment from violence or if he is just doing it to survive but he did seem to be having some fun in the match in the opening show.

It's a mixture of both, in a way. Part of the nature of the environment that he grew up in. Violence is a very integral and necessary part of the series, and by extension humanity itself. The upcoming episodes exemplifies this.

I'll respond to you about the phone conversations at another time.

[zaldar]

I am beginning to think they are somehow pivotal and your response confirms that ah well. With seeing Ran everywhere and especially in episode 6 but no one reacting I am beginning to wonder if the whole thing isn't some sort of vision of hers. I would like to think Abe wouldn't stoop to such a trick but I can't say for sure. It may just be that everyone knows who she is and that they consider her unimportant or it may be something else I can't say yet.

Just watched episode 6 and it's title repetition makes me think somewhat of what I said above as well. We did get the whole eyes speech in this episode (with yet another phone conversation that I can't exactly tell who it was between or when it took place...) and I think it is trying to imply that the machine changed their souls (eyes being the window to the soul and all) I am sure it is more complicated than that (this is anime after all) but Japan does have a very interesting love hate relationship with technology.

I also think that there was a snipit of an American 60's rock song in this episode which is interesting. More thoughts later after I watch it again.

[HellKorn]

With seeing Ran everywhere and especially in episode 6 but no one reacting I am beginning to wonder if the whole thing isn't some sort of vision of hers.

I can safely say it isn't.

Ran's ability to move about so freely in Lux will be revealed in due time.

I would like to think Abe wouldn't stoop to such a trick but I can't say for sure.

For the record, while Yoshitoshi ABe is the only screenwriter for Haibane Renmei and had notable involvement for NieA_7, the likes of Serial Experiments Lain and Texhnolyze are products of Chiaki J. Konaka and Yasuyuki Ueda.

We did get the whole eyes speech in this episode [...] and I think it is trying to imply that the machine changed their souls (eyes being the window to the soul and all)

It actually alludes to an event that has taken place a short while ago: the Spectacle. Notice how Yoshii is going around the city, asking information from the citizens about its current make-up? As well as his visit to the odd train conductor that he apparently knows? Keep that all in mind.

Also, eyes have a much larger and different importance than that. Take particular note how the narrator explicitly states that the eye color of the residents changed during the aforementioned event.

What's even more interesting is that in the opening sequence itself, the first image that you see other than the city of Lux is Ichise's eyes. Along with other vital visual motifs (the Obelisk, train tracks, masses of people walking without direction or sense), this is a recurring aspect in the series that should definitely not be overlooked.

[zaldar]

hmm thanks I'll have to look at that then. The obelisk reminded me to much of the Washington Monument (yes I know it is because I am American Centric sorry) so I have been ignoring it but is definitely always there. Glad to know the whole thing isn't some sort of Vision.

I know abe didn't write it but from the extra on the first DVD where he is interviewed with the creator it seemed like he had more involvement than with just drawing the characters. Either way both his work and the other people involved is wonderful.

They use the word Spectacle to talk about wars inbetween the gangs, like at the end of the first episode after the sage is attacked..that wasn't supposed to be when the eyes changed was it..??

[DKL]

Oh, FUCK, spoilers ahead...

I haven't seen this in a while, but I was under the impression that the whole "eye changing" thing was like... some event that happened a long time ago when they forgot to turn on the light...

Then like... Kanno made it happen again when he killed those dudes over in the factory [that turned on the lights].

I think another thing that got people riled up towards the end was that they were tired of being taken advantage of by people who were Texhnolyzed... so... when the stuff stopped working, they saw it as a good time to mess around.



...

Yeah, I'm not sure what the context of the conversation is...


==========

Wait, what episode are we on?

[HellKorn]

Uber-spoilers. Don't read if you haven't seen the whole series or don't wish to be spoiled.

I haven't seen this in a while, but I was under the impression that the whole "eye changing" thing was like... some event that happened a long time ago when they forgot to turn on the light...

Then like... Kanno made it happen again when he killed those dudes over in the factory [that turned on the lights].

Yeah, I caught that on my second run through. Kind of amusing, in a twisted way, that this character who only served as a "narrator" actually is shown dead.

And while I'm not completely certain, I *think* it's explicitly stated or implied that the last time there was a Spectacle, the people's eye colors changed. There's obviously overwhelming evidence pointing to Spectacles having happened before. The most recent one before when the show takes place is the one where Oshii took command of the Organo and subsequently the city thanks to giving up his legs to Kano and obtaining the texhnolyzed legs.

(That whole thing strikes me as tying into the examination of fate on a grander scale, which TEX puts under the microscope a lot. Built through the design of a higher being, or coincidences/events ultimately triggering the inevitabilities we cannot escape from? It's interesting how the series provides perspectives and arguments for both.)

Oh, and notice how after Doc killed herself/became a Theornormal, she states that Ichise has the eyes of their ancestors. When I realized that, and put it together along with the earlier mention of the eye color change, the whole thing came together beautifully...

... Which is why I fucking want you to be there for when I post that Texhnolyze analysis thread. (Haven't decided if I'm going to try it here or on ANN first.) You got some analytical skillz, man.

I think another thing that got people riled up towards the end was that they were tired of being taken advantage of by people who were Texhnolyzed... so... when the stuff stopped working, they saw it as a good time to mess around.

Bingo. Shame for them that Ichise truly is the most highly evolved human and promptly beat the shit out of 'em all.

Wait, what episode are we on?

Five. (See the subject line.)

[zaldar]

Thank you for blacking it out. Didn't read them. Will be interesting to see how my deductive skills stack up once I have seen it all. I thought those conversations were important I got that much right at least ;)

[Glamrgrl104]

Ok just my opinion.. I thought Technolyze was really boring.It lacked any action what so ever and how the heck was he able to climb stairs with only one leg and one arm. Plus he was bleeding severly so yeah he would have been dead. Hes only human. Also I didn't care for the sex scenes in it.
MY opinion Death Note was 100 times better than Technolyze.

[DKL]

I'm... not really sure what the correlation between both shows is other than the fact that Madhouse produced both of them.

[Glamrgrl104]

I guess the seriousness/dark type anime?

[DKL]

I guess the seriousness/dark type anime?

I dunno about everyone else, but I thought that the Death Note anime was pretty funny here and there and not as overly serious as everyone made it out to be; the thing about Tetsuro Araki is that... and this is especially if you've seen his work under Sunao Katabuchi in the super-excellent Roberta Arc in the first season of Black Lagoon...

There's this mindset that things need to be RIDICULOUSLY over-the-top and stylish (such as my chip-eating avatar)...

It's a actually a really neat approach since it conveys the intensity as well as entertains the viewer visually...

Yeah, I like Death Note better, but mainly because it's more entertaining...

As far as a more solid, deeper and well-rounded show goes though, I'd probably concede to Texhnolyze, hands down.

[Glamrgrl104]

I guess I agree with that.
But I guess it is too serious for my taste.
Otherwise it would be very depressing. heh
Kinda like Gun grave it had an ok story but it was just really boring to me.

[DKL]

Actually, I wrote a paper about Death Note; it's the kind of story that can cater to a mass audience thanks to its various devices and use of stereotypes, but it sacrifices telling a more humanized story (which Texhnolyze succeeds at, despite not catering to mainstream tastes... but hey, Hamasaki has a great sense of sensuality, so that must count for something, right?)...

I mean, for starters, all of the women in the show [Death Note] were totally subservient to the men (and, in many cases, dumb); I laughed out loud during that one episode where Raye Penber essentially told his wife to shut up and have kids, despite all her reasonable suspicion.

[though, arguably, women were sort of objectified in Texhnolyze as well, but that's besides the point... or maybe it isn't?]

But... as I've said time and time again: there's no problem with doing stuff like that...

It's entertainment, son; what's the point in watching something if you don't enjoy yourself?

[banksie]

Done my breakdown and analysis here (http://www.khantazi.org/Rec/Anime/Index.html) . Each speculation document covers the series up to and including the volume it is linked with. So can be viewed as you work you way through the show.

To my mind Texhnolyze is deeply a Buddhist parable.

[HellKorn]

[though, arguably, women were sort of objectified in Texhnolyze as well, but that's besides the point... or maybe it isn't?]

Aside from Doc, I can't recall any female characters being objectified in the series. And aside from being a incredibly strong and interesting character, the somewhat titillating scenes in the first few episodes actually serve a purpose as opposed to a couple fanservice shots.

When Doc first takes in Ichise, she regards him solely as an experiment and takes sexual pleasure in it. As she actually becomes closer to him as a person and comes to genuinely care for him, sexual intimacy is very far from her mind.

It's a particularly interesting irony.

And I'm in full agreement about your comments on Death Note. Very entertaining if you don't take it seriously, but if you do then it'll be disappointed (or, at the risk of sounding like an elitist, a person is familiar with the concept of "good writing").

That series is fun, and has been admitted by the creator to be primarily fun. It's just that some fans try to create depth and try to make it seem thematically deep and well-written alongside the likes of Paranoia Agent, Texhnolyze, Haibane Renmei, Mushi-shi, lain, etc. but don't really have anything substantial.

But entertainment is entertainment, so whatever.

[HellKorn]

(Damn backspace button erased my initial post.)

To my mind Texhnolyze is deeply a Buddhist parable.

Texhnolyze is to Buddhism in anime what Wolf's Rain is to Hinduism.

I've actually cited your analysis of the series a few times. It's been helpful, and I generally agree with your assessment of TEX.

However, a couple nit-picks: The type of flower that Ran seems to carry might not be a cherry blossom, but a lotus. Not only does it bear a bit more of a resemblance, but it fits better thematically and also gives another dimension to scene in episode five where Ran guides Ichise out of the sewers.

Also, regarding volume five: The Theonormals are quite clearly shown not to be desirable at all. The series stresses the importance of conflict and the will to live so strongly that seeing these "humans" get by without it is incredibly unsettling. They haven't transcended; like their surroundings imply and even one of them remarks that they are living in the past. Stagnation is shown to be an awful thing to utterly abhor (see: Yoshii, Kano, Doc), and the Theonormals embody this to such an extreme degree that I can't see them being any step further up the evolutionary ladder than those in Lux -- if anything, they're far further down it because of it (also, see: Kano's speech to Ichise about the importance of the human imagination and its capabilities).

[DKL]

I dunno... when I think about the female representation in the show, a couple of times, they do come across as objects of sexuality; Onishi's secretary... Yoko... Doc... that hooker lady with all the scars... the fight promoter lady... those ladies who spoke for Ran with their shirts off...

What else?

But, you know, it happens; when you try to cover all your bases in terms of representation, sometimes, stuff gets left out; all things considering, the male representation in the show is much broader than the female representation.

[HellKorn]

Oh, I thought you mean in being objectified to the audience (i.e. fanservice).

Yeah, I'd agree with that general viewpoint, though at its core TEX is about the human condition in its most raw form. Power rules, and I don't think it'd be crazy to suggest that the men would be stronger than the women. That kind of setting -- where it's more along the lines of a massive slum -- lays out harsh conditions such as mob rule (predominantly male), prostitution (predominantly female), etc.

If it were the reversed, it wouldn't be an honest scrutinizing of humankind. That type of attempt would be trying to appeal to a base that's a bit illogical in itself. It's not really condoning that type of view, just stating an objective observation.

But hey, I'm all for strong female characters, and we did get three in the series in the form of Doc, Ran, and Onishi's secretary.

I do think it's interesting how ABe remarked in the interview on volume one that this was the first time he had ever drawn so many "old men." Every other series he's been involved in has worked primarily with females.

[zaldar]

So Yoshii is going to start a war for no other reason than to watch the fireworks. Well they are going to have to do a good job if they want to redeem his character now...though he is pulling it off nicely. He does know just which buttons to push doesn't he?

I'm not even going to try to analyze what was going on with peoples eyes when he was talking to them. Somehow the tower almost seems like it is communicating with them. Black magic from the replacement limbs? Somehow related to the city talking to the leader of the Organo? The doc did seem to be treating the city like a living organism of some sort..

Not sure I totally understand the change in Ichise, I almost would wonder if the machines are somehow making people feel pointless except it hasn't come to everyone else with them. More like he can no longer ignore what his father did or what happened to him. Still interesting stuff.

The train guy that yoshi was talking to seemed interesting as well. Did yoshi come down only to get away from a unchanging surface world?

On another topic, I realize it isn't part of the point of the show but do they spend any time talking about how the city itself works? How they are able to live that far underground where they get light and air and that sort of stuff?

Sorry I'm holding up the more expansive disscusion I'll try to watch it more quickly.

[DKL]

The town's functionality is, for the most part, implied early on in the series (from what I can remember)...

But, you see a surprisingly informative and affecting montage about it later on...

Just keep your eyes and ears open.

[HellKorn]

So Yoshii is going to start a war for no other reason than to watch the fireworks.

His motivations are far more than that, as will soon be revealed.

You've actually got it right here:

Did yoshi come down only to get away from a unchanging surface world?

But that's only scratching the surface.

Somehow the tower almost seems like it is communicating with them.

The Obelisk is related to texhnolyzation. And Onishi in particular seems to "hear the voice of the city," whoever or whatever that may be.

Keep those facts in mind.

The doc did seem to be treating the city like a living organism of some sort..

This will come into play in the second half, particularly in the final episodes.

The train guy that yoshi was talking to seemed interesting as well.

His part has, in a way, already been played out.

These really aren't spoilers, since this is easily deduced for first-time watchers who are paying attention, but just in case: The "train guy" is Sakimura. Yoshii knows him previously, meaning that they were both once on the surface. Yoshii asks Sakimura for information, meaning that Sakimura has obviously been down there for a long time. For what reasons could Sakimura have come down there, and when? Consider that.

[zaldar]

Yea got that much that they knew each other before the whole from one who wanted to be like you conversation. It will be interesting to see where that goes. Hmm why he came down...he was a revolutionary? The city seems not to have a lot of government maybe it was set up as a libertarian stronghold after the world became one big welfare state he was a true believer in anarchy and so came down...other possibilities exist of course. It will be interesting to see where this leads.