Clannad discussion thread part 2 - Episodes 17+

[something]

First things first: Link to Clannad thread part 1! (http://www.animeondvd.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/24918/)

Well, the other one approaches 400, which is where threaded mode is set to cut out. So people still have the option to read this thread in threaded mode (helpful for avoiding spoilers etc), it's being restarted to reset the count.

I haven't seen 17 yet but I know it aired. I won't be starting a subthread for it, but rather letting whoever sees it first do that (so I don't get accused of doing this just to get "first post" or whatever =P).

The first thread hasn't had a reply in three days so episode 16 discussion is probably done but I'll start a subthread where that can continue if anyone still wants to.

ANN (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=7809) entry.
Official (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=7809) site.
Schedule (http://cal.syoboi.jp/tid/1225/time) for airing dates and times on various stations.

Note
As usual, please try to follow these two easy forum courtesy habits when replying:
1) If you're the first person to post about an episode in any given week, please respond to the root post (this post) and indicate in the subject line which episode you're posting about.
2) If someone has already posted about an episode before you, please respond to that post (or a relevant reply to that post). Keep in the right subthread.

Thanks.

[something]

If you want, we can continue discussion of episode 16 in this subthread. Here (http://www.animeondvd.com/forum/showtopic.php?fid/21/tid/24918/pid/626540/#626540) is the initial subthread post for episode 16 in the old thread.

[GyroidFanatic]

People use threaded mode? It seems I may have caused them quite a few problems since I've been here...

[BlazinTy]

Just a quick question about Clannad is the proper aspect ratio of that show ws or fs. I know the show is airing first in FS. I am very confused.

[eobert]

The show was created in widescreen, but the tv station is airing a 4:3 version first, to encourage people to watch the premium satellite channel's version, which is widescreen. Or something like that.

[William K]

Yup. But the satellite station is 2 weeks behind the regular broadcast and most of us here can't wait 2 weeks for the better visuals

[William K]

Looks like the worry about not having enough time is unfounded as the Tomoyo and Kyou/Ryou arcs are running concurrently.

Since the translated version is already out, I'll let someone else summarize the episode but lots of Tomoyo and Kyou screen time. Although it's almost a foregone conclusion who the main heroine of this show is, Tomoyo still rocks <3

[BlazinTy]

thanks I know what version to get now.

[Sly05]

I'm surprised it took them so long to figure out that they could share the advisor. Too bad the school council shot that idea down. I'm surprised they were so adamant about the advisor being involved with all activities as from most anime that doesn't really seem to be an issue.

Tomoyo's barging into Tomoya's house in the morning to wake him up (and then doing the same to Sunohara) had me laughing. I like her matter-of-fact attitude.

Kyou and Tomoya getting locked in the gym storage was another memorable scene. Kyou sure jumps to conclusions quickly.

I do have to admit I'm wishing Fuuko's random appearances were less frequent. Her appearance in this episode wrecked any tension that the scene could have had.

[HitokiriShadow]

Looks like the worry about not having enough time is unfounded as the Tomoyo and Kyou/Ryou arcs are running concurrently.

Indeed, that seems to be the case. This episode feels a bit busy as a result, but just a little and worked pretty well.

In this episode, Tomoyo finally gets a good amount of screentime (I don't think she's had more than about two minutes in any episode prior to this). I was amused at Sunohara's sheer terror simply by being near her at school.

It was also nice to see things start really moving with Ryou and Kyou. The whole gym equipment scene was quite amusing. Kyou's went complete deredere which was a little awkward but all the more amusing because of it.

And Fuuko makes another appearance. I was a little surprised she popped up again so soon, I was expecting it to be another episode or two before she appeared again. Starfish Heat~!

[something]

Episode 17:

- The choir club was moved, they offer to share the adviser! Yay! ...Student Council rejects it. Boo! What bastards. When Nagisa says she'd be okay only being able to work half time, they say there's no student council president to make the decision. We need you, Tomoyo!
- Oh, and Nagisa looks like she's got a fever, and almost collapses. They bring her back home, but Tomoya seems... Hmm. Frustrated that he can't do more for her?
- Suddenly, TOMOYO. Tomoya wakes up to the sound of Tomoyo's voice, and to the sight of her leaning over him. She came to wake him up to ensure he gets to school on time, and they grab Youhei on the way. Tomoya looks a bit upset when he finds out that Tomoyo met his dad.
- Kyou sees Tomoyo bringing Tomoya in, and decides more aggressive action is needed. She makes him come to lunch with her again, and not so subtly tries to set him and Ryou up again. Blushing Ryou with steam coming out of her head! Yes!
- Lunch ends and they head back to classes. After Tomoya leaves, Ryou asks Kyou if it's okay to do this, because she feels like she's betraying Nagisa. Kyou brushes it off and says that Tomoyo might steal him instead at this rate. She seems a bit irritated with Ryou for hesitating, and it's increasingly clear she's living out her own desires vicariously through Ryou, even if she won't admit it to herself.
- I really am starting to think that Youhei genuinely likes Nagisa. While before he only spoke about her as a source of delicious bread, now when he says he wants to see her it's actually emotionally convincing. I don't know that they'll spend a lot of time addressing their relationship, but it just deepens Youhei all the more as a character.
- Tomoyo finds him and Tomoya before Kyou can get to them, and they walk home together. Except Youhei wants to use her infamy to get revenge on some guys who give him trouble on the way back. As soon as they see her they run, scared shitless.
- Tomoya manages to extract them from this situation (at Youhei's expense) and as they part for the day Tomoyo thanks him for it, and tells him it's fun to be with him. Tomoyo really is unique among the girls (well, ok, they all are) -- she's so honest, almost to a fault, she has no problem saying exactly what she's thinking, and she analyzes her emotions and those of others almost as if it were science.
- As they wake Youhei up the next day, she gets him to beg to touch her body, then when he does... she grabs his hand in hers. "The hand is part of the body too!" And this ends in more kick juggles, though the counter doesn't seem to make a comeback.
- Second part.
- Lunch with Kyou and Ryou again. Ryou's attempt at cooking has mixed results, but Tomoya appreciates it anyway. Kyou makes an excuse to leave them alone together. Tomoya isn't a dumb guy... he can read the situation. He knows Ryou has feelings for him but doesn't know how to deal with that sort of situation.
- Besides, he has his mind on someone else. Sitting in the theater clubroom by himself, all he can think about is Nagisa. He's terribly lonely without her.
- He kills time in the backup library with Yukine, who asks if there's something bothering him. She suggests a book of charms - and the charm is to get locked in a school gym storage room with a girl. They then talk about the student council, and he starts thinking that Nagisa might have better luck if Tomoyo wins. His thoughts are interrupted by Kyou, who asks him to help her bring some balls to... the storage room. :sd:
- And then another of those hilarious scenes Clannad does so well. When Tomoya had to think of a girl to be locked in the storage room with, he decided to go with the 'safe' choice, i.e. the one he wouldn't be awkward and tempted by. He went with Kyou. But... she misunderstands when he tells her, and and and and... Well, you've seen the scene, and if you didn't you should. Suffice to say, it's hilarious (and yes, Tomoya does know why Kyou has him eating lunch with Ryou all the time). Also, gooooooooooood daaaaaaaaaaamn Kyou is hot.
- They get out (the counter-charm worked!) and as Kyou leaves, Tomoyo meets up with Tomoya again. But at the gate is a large group of the guys she unintentionally scared off before. Tomoya tells her not to fight, because if she does she can't become student council president and...
- ...and I can hear the complaints already from those who don't want Fuuko to keep appearing. :sd: Well, as before, *I* thought it was fun, and again I wasn't at all thinking about it so it was unexpected.
- Anyway, that out of the way, Youhei shows up and wants to help out. Tomoyo takes him out in the midst of the action :sd: Teachers break things up before it goes too far, and Tomoya takes the blame to save Tomoyo.

Next episode the girls visit him while he's suspended, and we find out more about why Tomoyo transferred in and, I assume, why she's always staring off the side of the road at a particular point on the way to school. I've been wondering about that.

It looks like Kyou and Tomoyo will essentially be handled together, which makes perfect sense if you ask me. Clannad has always been about mixing the girls' stories from the start, this just makes it more explicit. I honestly think they easily have enough episodes to pull it off, though moreso with 26 than 24.

[StudioZEL]

Man, that scene in the storage room damn near gave me a nose bleed! :virgin: :virgin: :virgin:

[Buster Blader 126]

Oh, Kyo! :virgin:

Excuse me while I go watch the gym storage scene again.

~

So yeah, that gym scene was my favourite scene in the entire episode. I found it amusing that Kyo jumped to conclusions so quickly. Though if I was in her position, I sure would too, especially if Tomoya was taking his shirt off.

It's good to see Tomoyo more frequently, too. Because seeing Tomoyo kick ass never gets old. I've been itching for KyoAni to finally get into her story, as well as Kyo/Ryo's story (though particularly Kyo).

I am curious about one thing: during the gym storage scene, when Tomoya told Kyo that her attempts to set-up Ryo and him weren't really bothering him to that extent, she then said "then why not igno-" before Tomoya remembered how to cancel the charm. "Then why not ignore" what? I wonder what she was eluding to...

[ndm]

I am curious about one thing: during the gym storage scene, when Tomoya told Kyo that her attempts to set-up Ryo and him weren't really bothering him to that extent, she then said "then why not igno-" before Tomoya remembered how to cancel the charm. "Then why not ignore" what? I wonder what she was eluding to...


Presumably you watched a subbed version with a bad translation job. What she actually says is "ja, moshi sore ja..." which means something like "so, what if...". I'd guess that the subbers must have misheard it as "Ja, mushi sureba" (where "mushi" means ignore). I'd imagine she was going to ask what his answer would be if either of the sisters asked him out.

I loved this episode, mainly because Kyou and Tomoyo are my two faves (especially Kyou). I had a big goofy grin the entire time.

I wonder how many Japanese schoolboys went looking for 10 yen coins after watching the episode. :P

[StudioZEL]

I wonder how many Japanese schoolboys went looking for 10 yen coins after watching the episode. :P

Japanese boys? Hell, I'M looking for 10 yen coins!!! (anyone care to donate?) :-P

[EmperorBrandon]

It's nice that we are getting to see a lot of Tomoyo in this episode. She's a pretty interesting character it seems and looking forward to her part of the story. Hmm... and I rather like Houko Kuwashima's voice for the character. I just heard some of her in Melody of Oblivion and Claymore today, and it's nice to hear one that is a bit more feminine (though not gratingly so, either).

Needless to say the scene with Kyou in this episode was pure awesomeness as well, though. She was so incredibly cute throughout the whole thing. Man, these last few episodes have been really nice. It's very, very rare that I'm even the slightest bit tempted to watch episodes more than once so soon after I've seen them, but in this case I've been strongly tempted.

[Nosredna]

I do have to admit I'm wishing Fuuko's random appearances were less frequent. Her appearance in this episode wrecked any tension that the scene could have had.

Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one. If she actually did something meaningful I wouldn't mind it, but again I thought she was just a waste of time and space.

Other than that, I enjoyed the episode. I tried to keep myself from having a favorite girl, but unfortunately it's unavoidable. I really like Kyou and thought her and Tomoya being locked in that room together was priceless.

[Suwako Moriya]

It looks like Kyou and Tomoyo will essentially be handled together, which makes perfect sense if you ask me.

It's certainly an interesting way to handle the issue of limited remaining episodes. Plus it was kind of fun to see the contrast between the Kyou scenes and the Tomoyo scenes. Several fun moments between both sets.

In any case I have to wonder about that scene where Kyou and Tomoya get locked in. First is in terms of what Kyou was thinking. She seemed more interested than Tomoya. Second I'm starting to think the first thing they teach you is "Never check if someone is inside"

[William K]

Second I'm starting to think the first thing they teach you is "Never check if someone is inside"

It's the magic of the charm :)
Yukine's books have worked twice now, first by inspiring Sunohara to challenge the basketball club and now getting Tomoya and Kyou both locked and then freed from the store room!

[stfram]

Wow.

One thing for sure, this episode appears to have resolved possibly two storylines at once.

We find out who Tomoyo is pushing in the wheelchair.

Fuko appears again, and not only doesn't resolve the situaiton, she adds to it. :)

Lots of sports action, baseball and tennis. Not as good as the basketball game, but Sunohara's pain is our enjoyment.

Nagisa comes back recovered, and while Tomoya has steadfastly refused to admit his affection for her to others (although he's pretty much realized it privately), *everyone* now knows otherwise....for better or for worse. Poor Ryou..and Kyou. What a beautifully handled scene, though.

[William K]

Oh my...baseball will never be the same again! Tomoyo "Nuke" Sakagami! Sunohara takes one (and more) for the team

Funny stuff in the 1st half
Hitode Cake...Tomoyo vs Kyou Round 2...
Tomoyo in kendo gear (I think she does better than Miya Miya)

then things get a bit serious in the 2nd half before the tennis match and Tomoyo in tennis wear! The insert song during the match was not in the game, was it?

Awww...poor Ryou and Kyou...Is that all for the Tomoyo arc?

What!? 2 weeks before the next episode :(

[EmperorBrandon]

Haha... poor Tomoya - everyone forcing him to eat... :P The thing with Tomoyo and Kyou getting heated up over it kind of made think of something out of Tenchi Muyo, and it was pretty funny. Fuuko even ended up being very entertaining here (when I find some of her appearances mildly annoying).

Really enjoyed hearing about Tomoyo's story, though, and she continued to be a cool character throughout here.

The end definitely makes me really sad for Kyou. It definitely seems that situation hit her hard, particularly with her sister's comments. I don't know if this means their "arc" is wrapped up or not, but I'm curious to see how things play out from here.

[HitokiriShadow]

Things sure seem to be moving pretty quickly. We seem to have gotten all of Tomoyo's backstory in a single episode, her campaign ended and Kyou and Ryou realize that they can't win against Nagisa.

[HitokiriShadow]

The end definitely makes me really sad for Kyou. It definitely seems that situation hit her hard, particularly with her sister's comments. I don't know if this means their "arc" is wrapped up or not, but I'm curious to see how things play out from here.

What I found interesting was that, initially, Kyou seemed to take it harder than Ryou. Though they both ended up breaking down in tears. Ryou seemed to have accepted that she couldn't have Tomoya already, but Kyou had continued to fight and seeing that was a devastating blow to her.

[Ingraman]

The end definitely makes me really sad for Kyou. It definitely seems that situation hit her hard, particularly with her sister's comments. I don't know if this means their "arc" is wrapped up or not, but I'm curious to see how things play out from here.

What I found interesting was that, initially, Kyou seemed to take it harder than Ryou. Though they both ended up breaking down in tears. Ryou seemed to have accepted that she couldn't have Tomoya already, but Kyou had continued to fight and seeing that was a devastating blow to her.


After watching the series for a while, I expected any "loss" of Tomoya (to any girl other than her sister) to hit Kyou harder than Ryou. A lot of Kyou's interest in Tomoya didn't seem to be just to push things further for her sister, but rather because she'd developed her own feelings for Tomoya (and perhaps stronger ones, which getting locked in the shed amplified/boosted becaused that situation forced her to think about them more). Maybe Ryou declared first, and Kyou wasn't going to compete, but rather have a relationship vicariously?

Tomoyo might be reading the situation correctly, too, but I don't think that her interest in Tomoya has had the chance to progress too far in this version of events (not that I've seen any other version, since I won't go near any game info until after the series ends).

[HitokiriShadow]

A lot of Kyou's interest in Tomoya didn't seem to be just to push things further for her sister, but rather because she'd developed her own feelings for Tomoya (and perhaps stronger ones, which getting locked in the shed amplified/boosted becaused that situation forced her to think about them more).

Yes, she clearly had feeling for Tomoya and wasn't just doing it for Ryou. What surprised me (a bit) about the scene was that Ryou also broke down. She had seemed like she had already accepted she was stuck in the friend zone. I suspect she was crying less for her sake and more for Kyou's. Or just seeing Kyou crying made it hit harder for her or something. If it had been just her there, I suspect she would have just had a sad or resigned look on her face (like she had for much of this episode) but no waterworks.

Maybe Ryou declared first, and Kyou wasn't going to compete, but rather have a relationship vicariously?

That seems to be what she was doing and the reason you state seems like a pretty good explanation for why.


Tomoyo might be reading the situation correctly, too, but I don't think that her interest in Tomoya has had the chance to progress too far in this version of events (not that I've seen any other version, since I won't go near any game info until after the series ends).

Yes, she seemed to realize Tomoya's feelings as well, she just wasn't as obvious and emotional about it. Kyou and Ryou have known Tomoya for a long time and probably had a romantic interest in him before the series ever began. On the other hand, Tomoyo just met him at the beginning of the series and hasn't been with him much until the last couple episodes. She certainly seems to have a romantic interest in him, but not a deep rooted one.

[stfram]

Oh my...baseball will never be the same again! Tomoyo "Nuke" Sakagami! Sunohara takes one (and more) for the team


I like how they used the "censor blur" on his face as he continued to get hit again and again.


What!? 2 weeks before the next episode :(

Nooooooooooooooooo!

Oh well, maybe that will allow the widescreen eps to catch up a bit more.

[Ingraman]

A lot of Kyou's interest in Tomoya didn't seem to be just to push things further for her sister, but rather because she'd developed her own feelings for Tomoya (and perhaps stronger ones, which getting locked in the shed amplified/boosted becaused that situation forced her to think about them more).

Yes, she clearly had feeling for Tomoya and wasn't just doing it for Ryou.

Just too many story elements for it to be otherwise. ^_^

What surprised me (a bit) about the scene was that Ryou also broke down. She had seemed like she had already accepted she was stuck in the friend zone. I suspect she was crying less for her sake and more for Kyou's. Or just seeing Kyou crying made it hit harder for her or something.

That didn't surprise me. Tears are contagious. Ryou might have been (was probably?) somewhat aware of her own sister's feelings, too.

If it had been just her there, I suspect she would have just had a sad or resigned look on her face (like she had for much of this episode) but no waterworks.

I think that that's the case. In that situation, she might have cried later, but she wouldn't have had her sister there to push her over the cliff (waterfall? ^_^; ).

Maybe Ryou declared first, and Kyou wasn't going to compete, but rather have a relationship vicariously?

That seems to be what she was doing and the reason you state seems like a pretty good explanation for why.

Blush or dream from afar?

Tomoyo might be reading the situation correctly, too, but I don't think that her interest in Tomoya has had the chance to progress too far in this version of events (not that I've seen any other version, since I won't go near any game info until after the series ends).

Yes, she seemed to realize Tomoya's feelings as well, she just wasn't as obvious and emotional about it.

She wouldn't have been Tomoyo if she burst into tears, too. ^_^

[HitokiriShadow]

What surprised me (a bit) about the scene was that Ryou also broke down. She had seemed like she had already accepted she was stuck in the friend zone. I suspect she was crying less for her sake and more for Kyou's. Or just seeing Kyou crying made it hit harder for her or something.

That didn't surprise me. Tears are contagious. Ryou might have been (was probably?) somewhat aware of her own sister's feelings, too.

Surprise is a bit strong of a word, but I can't think of a better one to describe it. But based on her prior behavior, I expected her to, well, basically continue to do what she had been doing for the entire episode and perhaps console Kyou. But she ended up bursting into tears as well and letting out what she had been bottling up. I wasn't surprised in the sense that I was shocked or was blindsided by it, it just wasn't what I was expecting her to do.

"Tears are contagious" yes, that's what I was trying to say but couldn't find the right words to say it. And I agree, Ryou probably new how Kyou felt. I would be shocked if she didn't, really. She may be shy and gullible, but she's not stupid. I'd imagine she's quite aware of her sister's feelings on this matter.


If it had been just her there, I suspect she would have just had a sad or resigned look on her face (like she had for much of this episode) but no waterworks.

I think that that's the case. In that situation, she might have cried later, but she wouldn't have had her sister there to push her over the cliff (waterfall? ^_^; ).



Yes, she seemed to realize Tomoya's feelings as well, she just wasn't as obvious and emotional about it.

She wouldn't have been Tomoyo if she burst into tears, too. ^_^


Exactly.


Also, while I loved the episode, it wasn't perfect. As much as I love Clannad, I do have a bit of criticism for it:

I enjoyed the episode, but I do think that this episode and the previous one moved pretty quickly. It doesn't suffer too much from it, but it is fast paced when these shows generally have a more laid back and slower pacing. I would have preferred to have another episode on the campaign trail with Tomoyo and had things move a bit slower.

And I have mixed feelings on basically all of the girls falling for Tomoya. On the one hand, its still enjoyable and handles better than in probably any other series. On the other hand, its still a bunch of girls falling for the lead. Past Key adaptations only had one or two girls falling for the lead, but this one steps into harem territory. It's still a great series, I love it and its still my favorite of the Key/KyoAni trinity, but its a little disappointing on some levels.

[something]

Clannad and then the spicy little wolf. Tonight is going to be good.

Episode 18:

- Even though he's suspended, Tomoyo comes to wake him up anyway. Hmmm! But their nice breakfast is interrupted by Tomoya's dad coming in. Tomoyo doesn't understand, of course, why this makes Tomoya stand up and leave. To her, his dad is just a nice older man.
- Tomoya hangs out at Youhei's place while the latter goes to school. Kyou laments the sorry state of the theater club when both Nagisa and Tomoya aren't there as the other girls worry how the suspension will affect Tomoya's future.
- Tomoya lazes about Youhei's room, and finds himself constantly thinking of that girl he hasn't seen in three days now. When a knock comes on the door he rushes over hoping to see her, but it's Kyou and Ryou. Kyou drags them into a game center where they do a fortune telling game that, to her annoyance (and secretly I'd say relief...) proclaims Ryou and Tomoya are a good match... as friends. Afterwards she finds an excuse to leave them alone together again.
- Haha, oh wow. After Tomoya evades a question about his father from Tomoyo and Tomoyo evades a question about her student council president campaign from Tomoya, the Kyou-Tomoyo wars begin again. Kyou and Ryou stopped by with a large bento. Tomoyo was already in his kitchen making him food. Even Kotomi baked him something, thinking he'd be hungry home all alone. Tomoya tries to evade gastrointestinal death, but they all insist he eat, even Kotomi and Ryou... and Fuuko! XD Deadly looking starfish. I love how this scene just abruptly ENDS.
- Unfortunately when he gets to school a stomachache is the least of his worries. It looks like word of Tomoyo's past has spread again after the students from other schools attacked, and now it's damaging her presidential run. So Tomoya comes up with... the idea of playing a game of baseball to win people over? ::blinks:: Well that sounds familiar. :sd:
- Hah, ok, they handle it nicely. Instead of trying to remake the drama that made 16 such an incredible episode, they play it mostly for laughs. After she throws three wild pitches in a row, Tomoya advises her to aim for Youhei's face (he's the catcher). She does, and suddenly, 9 strikes in a row! Batters retired! She wins! And Youhei's face is pulverized.
- They then move on to rugby, swimming, gymnastics, kendo, and she excels at them all. As her fans come out in force to cheer her on, the rumors get pushed to the side. She thanks Tomoya, and tells him that she's a step closer to her goal now. And we finally find out what it is she's always looking at - the sakura trees on the way to school. She wants to preserve them, and being student council president is a good step in that direction.
- She tells him a bit about her past. As a kid, she was wild. Took her anger out on anyone and everyone, a true delinquent...

...And then she nicely describes what Clannad is all about, much like Sayuri does in the tea shop with Yuuichi in Kanon. Clannad is about family, be that biological or adopted, legally recognized or linked by bonds of friendship. That sense of family is what she has come to appreciate so much, given the dysfunctional background she comes from. With her parents about to divorce, her much neglected brother finally had enough. He threatened to jump off a bridge and then made good on that threat. It's only with this extreme shock to their emotional systems that Tomoyo and her parents finally pulled together as a family. And thus we know the identity of the wheelchair bound individual Tomoyo is pushing in the OP. Her brother, Takafumi.

- Finally, Nagisa is back. Suddenly Tomoya seems alive again, with Nagisa at his side helping him cheer on Tomoyo as they watch her challenge more sports clubs.
- Kyou sees their good chemistry and is about to run interference when Ryou holds her back. It's becoming increasingly clear to both of them, I think, that Ryou knows how Tomoya really feels about Nagisa, and that Kyou isn't doing this just for Ryou.

And the ending is just an absolute whirlwind. Nagisa coming back onto the scene was a catalyst that brought a number of things to a close or nearly so. While Nagisa was gone, Kyou began to convince herself that what she knew to be true before was in fact changeable. That with enough of a push, Tomoya would fall for Ryou... or herself. She told herself that Tomoyo was the obstacle, because it's easier to fight against someone when they aren't a close friend. It's easier to make moves on Tomoya when you're beating someone else, and to forget that it's Nagisa who you're stabbing in the back.

And so when Nagisa gets hit by a stray ball and Tomoya is so worried about and protective of her that he instinctively pushes another guy away when the guy reaches his hands towards Nagisa, that illusion Kyou had built up falls apart completely. Tomoyo had figured it out for herself instantly upon hearing Nagisa was the theater club president, but since she doesn't yet have strong romantic feelings for Tomoya, she can just smile a bit wistfully, maybe wonder for a short moment what might have been, and then get on with her match again, none the worse for wear.

It's a lot more traumatic for Kyou. Despite her immediate reaction (after staring in shock) being "Well, I knew it all along," Ryou is the one who "knew all along". She just looks at Kyou, smiles apologetically, and says "I'm sorry". Sorry because she knew how Kyou felt, knew how much Kyou was pushing herself to ship for Ryou. With everything out in the open, they have a good cry, and I think we'll be back to normal next episode. And with Tomoyo winning the student council president position, the theater club can be formally established, and she can protect the sakura trees. A typically KyoAni brilliant way of handling timing issues.

Where once people thought we were truly screwed for episodes if it ended even in 26, it now looks like we have a wealth of time left even if it ends in 24, which it looks like it's going to - ANN and that Japanese site with TV schedules both say 24, though if there's info to contradict that I wouldn't mind. I think we have enough time to completely develop everything between Nagisa and Tomoya, and therefore the girl and the robot, no doubt. And maybe even have something of a reunion with Fuuko.

I know some people won't be satisfied, but I think that'll come in large part because they expected Clannad to be more traditional a bishoujo anime than it's shown itself to be so far. Not every girl listed in the OP had to have an arc devoted strictly to her. Kyou especially has been developed here and there throughout the series since episode one. It's not like she didn't get her time in the spotlight - it just wasn't concentrated in one isolated chunk of the plot. Same for Tomoyo.

I'm not saying that there isn't more story they could tell, I have no doubt there is, and if they announced another cour or two I'd be perfectly happy. But what I am saying is that I think we're in very good shape with what we have left.

[EmperorBrandon]

I know some people won't be satisfied, but I think that'll come in large part because they expected Clannad to be more traditional a bishoujo anime than it's shown itself to be so far. Not every girl listed in the OP had to have an arc devoted strictly to her. Kyou especially has been developed here and there throughout the series since episode one. It's not like she didn't get her time in the spotlight - it just wasn't concentrated in one isolated chunk of the plot. Same for Tomoyo.

I am in complete agreement here. I've never really played up the importance of each girl having their particular "arc" in my enjoyment of the series. The first two were somewhat more clearly defined, but there was still a lot of interaction and development of other girls within them. I've found the pacing to be pretty good in the last few episodes, and I've been enjoying the series more than ever now. It could be that they have a lot more story to tell, but I'm not too worried about that. I will just look up information on the game when it's over (I love the series to the point where I may do that when I normally don't).

[something]

And I have mixed feelings on basically all of the girls falling for Tomoya.
I'd say no to Fuuko and Tomoyo. Conditional no to Kotomi. As for secondary characters (Yukine, Mei, etc.), none seem romantically interested.

Fuuko and Tomoyo both cared for Tomoya, but neither was very romantically inclined towards him. Fuuko was more like Tomoya and Nagisa's child than a love rival. I think Fuuko loved them both dearly, and equally, but also in the same way. She loved them as family, the family she can't yet return to with her sister. By extension Akio and Sanae became part of her family.

Tomoyo expressed interest in him, but it never quite developed past that, and when she caught onto what Nagisa was to Tomoya (quite quickly... she's sharp), there was little sadness or regret in her eyes. Tomoya made her feel good, made her happy, made her laugh, but she's a woman driven by other considerations. She appreciates what Tomoya has done for her, but that's because he allowed her to reach for her dreams, not in my opinion, because she saw a potential relationship there.

Kotomi is a bit harder to claim as a no, but she's still more ambiguous than Nagisa, Ryou or Kyou. For her, Tomoya seems more like a representation of a childhood she has been desperate to get back. I do think she may have loved him when they were children, in whatever way children may "love", but her feelings for him in the present day are a bit more complex than that. He's a precious friend, but if she ever considered him a potential lover, it really doesn't seem to last long or run deep. There's almost no romantic tension between them at present.

For Kyou and Nagisa, definitely yes. As for secondary characters, Ryou is a definite yes. Those are set in stone.

I won't compare directly to the Kanon girls here to avoid spoilers (even though I doubt many people here haven't seen Kanon...) but I will say that none of them struck me as less romantically inclined towards Yuuichi than Fuuko or Tomoyo towards Tomoya, and only slightly less than Kotomi for some of them. Compared to Air, both Kanon and Clannad are significantly more "harem-ish" but that's only because Air is... quite a different show from either of its KeyAni trilogy successors.

[something]

I've found the pacing to be pretty good in the last few episodes, and I've been enjoying the series more than ever now. It could be that they have a lot more story to tell, but I'm not too worried about that. I will just look up information on the game when it's over (I love the series to the point where I may do that when I normally don't).
I'm still going to place a personal moratorium on all Clannad game information for at least a year after the series ends just on the off chance they announce a continuation or an adaptation of Tomoyo After, or something along those lines. I doubt either will happen, but I'm going to be incredibly cautious anyway.

[EmperorBrandon]

That sounds like a good idea, but I probably won't feel the need to be too cautious when the Clannad anime wraps. I have been cautious at avoiding things related to the source material with Haruhi, but it's a much different thing in my mind for some reason. I was already feeling it was inevitable more would be made even before it became official (and man, I'm really hoping they get to it next... really anticipating more of the story)

[Suwako Moriya]

Ah yes so the lesson here is never let high school girls near a kitchen. As it leads to scary competitions where the prize becomes the real loser in the contest.

Tomoyo definitely remains cool and it's was nice to get more information on her back story. Nothing like one of those being forced to learn what's actually important situations.

I kind of feel sorry for both Kyou and Ryou. They never had a chance. Then again the same can be said for most of the girls. Which makes sense as Nagisa had the power to add color to the world. ;) Yes I know that episode 01 thing was symbolism, but I still wanted to say it.

I have to admit that it does feel kind of odd to have the first two girls get multiple episodes where they're the primary focus and then end up with the next two sharing the spotlight. Or maybe I should say three. Still with the limited time it worked out better than expected. Even so part of me does have to wonder.

[HitokiriShadow]

While I'm used to each girl having an arc dedicated to them where they are the focal point, I don't have any problems with them doing Kyou and Tomoyo simultaneously. Clannad has mixed things up in a lot of ways and that's just one more.

[Sly05]

I was surprised they concluded so many characters storylines in one episode. As usual, reports that the series would need another cour to get everything in prove incorrect. It did feel a little rushed, but not to the point of being bad or anything. I do wish Kyou would have gotten an episode or two to herself. The scene with her and Ryou crying was well done. Kyou certainly had the strongest feelings for Tomoya out of everyone.

Fuuko's appearance in this episode was even rather funny. Not that I have a problem with the character as some people seem to, but I agree that her appearances have felt rather out-of-place and distracting before. I really liked that whole food scene.

[HitokiriShadow]

And I have mixed feelings on basically all of the girls falling for Tomoya.
I'd say no to Fuuko and Tomoyo. Conditional no to Kotomi. As for secondary characters (Yukine, Mei, etc.), none seem romantically interested.

I didn't mean the secondary characters, I just mean all of the main girls. That's normal for 'harem' series, but Key has typically been different in that regard, or at least the KyoAni adaptations have been. Here, the only main girl that doesn't have romantic interest in Tomoya is Fuuko (and maybe Kotomi), but they add in Ryou.

Fuuko and Tomoyo both cared for Tomoya, but neither was very romantically inclined towards him. Fuuko was more like Tomoya and Nagisa's child than a love rival. I think Fuuko loved them both dearly, and equally, but also in the same way. She loved them as family, the family she can't yet return to with her sister. By extension Akio and Sanae became part of her family.

Right. I was excluding Fuuko from the "basically all." I guess I should have said "almost all." And specified that I was referring to the 'main' girls, i.e. the ones with arcs in the game and named in the OP. And I am very thankful that there were not even slight romantic undertones between Fuuko and Tomoya.

Tomoyo expressed interest in him, but it never quite developed past that, and when she caught onto what Nagisa was to Tomoya (quite quickly... she's sharp), there was little sadness or regret in her eyes. Tomoya made her feel good, made her happy, made her laugh, but she's a woman driven by other considerations. She appreciates what Tomoya has done for her, but that's because he allowed her to reach for her dreams, not in my opinion, because she saw a potential relationship there.

I think she had the beginnings of romantic feelings for him. That is, she had a romantic attraction to him, it just didn't develop much before it got killed. But she did have an interest in him, even if it short-lived and underdeveloped, so it counts towards what I'm talking about.


Kotomi is a bit harder to claim as a no, but she's still more ambiguous than Nagisa, Ryou or Kyou. For her, Tomoya seems more like a representation of a childhood she has been desperate to get back. I do think she may have loved him when they were children, in whatever way children may "love", but her feelings for him in the present day are a bit more complex than that. He's a precious friend, but if she ever considered him a potential lover, it really doesn't seem to last long or run deep. There's almost no romantic tension between them at present.

Now that I read that and think about it, its a bit easier to put Kotomi on the "friends only" side. Her acute interest in him seemed to have some romantic leanings but its hard to say. The bento scene in this episode made me think it was more on the romantic side, but thinking on it a bit more, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. And sticking her on the "friends" side makes it seem a lot less "harem"ish than I had been thinking.

For Kyou and Nagisa, definitely yes. As for secondary characters, Ryou is a definite yes. Those are set in stone.

Add in Tomoyo (briefly) and you have four, which is twice what either of the other series had. Hence my comment that it felt a bit harem-ish.

I won't compare directly to the Kanon girls here to avoid spoilers (even though I doubt many people here haven't seen Kanon...)

I recall several people saying the hadn't seen either Kanon or Air (or both) in the previous thread, though they may have stopped reading at some point during the first arc. Still, its good to err on the side of caution.

but I will say that none of them struck me as less romantically inclined towards Yuuichi than Fuuko or Tomoyo towards Tomoya, and only slightly less than Kotomi for some of them. Compared to Air, both Kanon and Clannad are significantly more "harem-ish" but that's only because Air is... quite a different show from either of its KeyAni trilogy successors.

Now that I think about it, there were more romantic(ish) undertones in some of the Kanon relationships than I had recalled. But Kanon had all of the arcs very separate from each other and so it never really became an issue. On the other hand, this episode of Clannad had the bento scene (which was great) and all of the girls together and the romance angle was heavily emphasized, so it stood out more.

It was barely even a complaint and it was hardly a strike against the series, it was just... different than what I'm used to for a Key series.

[something]

I really liked that whole food scene. Kotomi's
Clearly you ate one of those starfishcakes and died mid-sentence =P

[HitokiriShadow]

I have to admit that it does feel kind of odd to have the first two girls get multiple episodes where they're the primary focus and then end up with the next two sharing the spotlight. Or maybe I should say three. Still with the limited time it worked out better than expected. Even so part of me does have to wonder.

It's certainly different, but I don't have a problem with it. I just wish they could have spent a bit more time with it. The last two episodes have felt fast paced compared to everything prior to it (as well as basically all of Kanon and Air).

[Sly05]

I really need to do a better job reading over my posts. :laugh:

[Nosredna]

It's game over drive home safely for the other girls. But that was kind of obvious from the past few episodes. In a way it's good, because we'll see Tomoya and Nagisa's relationship grow. I'm interested to see how they are going to play this out with six episodes to go. And it wouldn't be a Clannad post from me, if I didn't say Fuko should just stay in her coma. She almost ruined that whole food scene.

[William K]

I kind of feel sorry for both Kyou and Ryou. They never had a chance. Then again the same can be said for most of the girls. Which makes sense as Nagisa had the power to add color to the world. ;) Yes I know that episode 01 thing was symbolism, but I still wanted to say it.

She did it again in ep 16 and even restarted time when she called on Okazaki to shoot the basketball :)

I'd be very surprised if Kyou and Ryou didn't get a couple of episodes for their backstory. After all, we've been introduced to the family members (dead or alive) of all the other main characters. In episode 11, just before Kotomi's violin concert, Nagisa's mom mentioned that she feels like she's met the sisters before. I highly doubt that it was just a random remark.

Speaking of random remarks, did Tomoyo explain what she meant in ep 2 when she said that seeing Tomoya and Sunohara again brings back memories...Have she met them before?

[HitokiriShadow]

I'd forgotten about that. No, they haven't explained that yet, assuming it meant anything (though it probably did). Next episode should still be dealing with Kyou/Ryou and Tomoyo, so maybe they'll explain it then.

[stfram]

Speaking of random remarks, did Tomoyo explain what she meant in ep 2 when she said that seeing Tomoya and Sunohara again brings back memories...Have she met them before?


Considering her statement in light of the current episode, I expect she was talking about the people that she used to hang out with, when she was a "wild delinquent."

[something]

Considering her statement in light of the current episode, I expect she was talking about the people that she used to hang out with, when she was a "wild delinquent."
Precisely how I thought of it too, makes perfect sense. Youhei and Tomoya are considered the school delinquents, and definitely not the kind of people (on the surface) that Tomoyo had been careful to stick with as she tries to turn her image around.

[EmperorBrandon]

And it wouldn't be a Clannad post from me, if I didn't say Fuko should just stay in her coma. She almost ruined that whole food scene.

I don't really see how she "ruined" the scene when it was a pretty comical scene to begin with. It was not like in the last episode where she interupted something serious. I'm not really a big fan of hers either, but it seemed to fit this time IMO.

[Nosredna]

And it wouldn't be a Clannad post from me, if I didn't say Fuko should just stay in her coma. She almost ruined that whole food scene.

I don't really see how she "ruined" the scene when it was a pretty comical scene to begin with. It was not like in the last episode where she interupted something serious. I'm not really a big fan of hers either, but it seemed to fit this time IMO.

Her mere presence ruins scenes for me :P .

[ndm]

Kyou and Ryou have known Tomoya for a long time and probably had a romantic interest in him before the series ever began.

Some non-spoilery stuff I know from playing the game, just in case they can't fit it into the anime: Kyou knew Sunohara and Tomoya for a while (iirc she made friends when they were in the same class the year before), which is why she calls Tomoya by his first name. Ryou only came to know them when they joined her class this year so she calls him Okazaki-kun. Kyou liked Tomoya first.

I was surprised they resolved the whole love quadrilateral so early in the series. I honestly wasn't expecting a scene like we got at the tennis court until about episode 22. I like the timing, though, since it gives them a lot of time to build on the Nagisa relationship.

[ndm]

And I have mixed feelings on basically all of the girls falling for Tomoya. On the one hand, its still enjoyable and handles better than in probably any other series. On the other hand, its still a bunch of girls falling for the lead. Past Key adaptations only had one or two girls falling for the lead, but this one steps into harem territory. It's still a great series, I love it and its still my favorite of the Key/KyoAni trinity, but its a little disappointing on some levels.

To be fair, I'd personally count only three of the girls as really falling for the lead: Nagisa (we presume, though actually we haven't yet seen how she feels), Kyou (who's fallen hard), and Tomoyo (who hasn't really known him for very long and so could move on without too much pain). Ryou likes Tomoya a lot but not nearly to the extent of her sister. Kotomi seems to have become just a really good friend. Fuuko was never a real romantic option and is now just comic (or annoying, depending on who you ask) relief.

[HitokiriShadow]

I never considered Fuuko part of the equation and I've moved Kotomi to "maybe". But I still think Ryou counts. Anyway, its really not a big deal regardless.

[StudioZEL]

I just watched 18 and KyoAni amazes me once more, this time in the story telling department. Their artwork and animation quality have always impressed me, but this episode proved once again that KyoAni knows how to pace a show perfectly. They know how to tell many stories at once, and also how to bring them to a nice sense of closure. What's even more impressive is how they managed to "end" (I don't know if it's the complete 100% end but it seemed that way) 3 or 4 different aspects of the story at the same time (as in Kyou, Ryou, and Tomoyo's interests in Tomoya). It's all done in one beautiful scene; a scene where nothing feels forced or rushed. It just happens, and it played out quite elegently.

[Buster Blader 126]

Nagisa comes back recovered, and while Tomoya has steadfastly refused to admit his affection for her to others (although he's pretty much realized it privately), *everyone* now knows otherwise....for better or for worse. Poor Ryou..and Kyou. What a beautifully handled scene, though.

IT'S OK, KYO! :cry:

Despite knowing that it wouldn't happen, I felt kind of sad that the Fujibayashi sisters got "rejected," especially Kyo. I liked pretty much all of the girls, and even though Nagisa is my favourite type of girl in these series, Kyo edged out and became my favourite overall.

I really did want Kyo to have her own arc, but I like the overall outcome of the combined arcs. I was wondering how the heck they were they were going to animate the last arc, assuming that they were going to do each girl one by one. But now we know, and now they have an adequate amount of time to wrap Clannad up.

& that last scene...

It really cemented the fact that Tomoya picked Nagisa. Nicely done.

[something]

It really cemented the fact that Tomoya picked Nagisa. Nicely done.
Very nicely done. What an interesting way to put it out there for everyone. Oh sure, the big confession and hopefully kiss scene will come eventually. But for now, it was an involuntary protective reflex that said it all. Even Tomoya didn't realize what he was doing until a second later. Brilliant.

[Ty]

And I have mixed feelings on basically all of the girls falling for Tomoya. On the one hand, its still enjoyable and handles better than in probably any other series. On the other hand, its still a bunch of girls falling for the lead. Past Key adaptations only had one or two girls falling for the lead, but this one steps into harem territory. It's still a great series, I love it and its still my favorite of the Key/KyoAni trinity, but its a little disappointing on some levels.

To be fair, I'd personally count only three of the girls as really falling for the lead: Nagisa (we presume, though actually we haven't yet seen how she feels), Kyou (who's fallen hard), and Tomoyo (who hasn't really known him for very long and so could move on without too much pain). Ryou likes Tomoya a lot but not nearly to the extent of her sister. Kotomi seems to have become just a really good friend. Fuuko was never a real romantic option and is now just comic (or annoying, depending on who you ask) relief.

I agree with your sentiments on Kotomi just being friends, but to me Tomoyo falls in the same category. Her behavior towards Tomoya never seemed romantic or anything beyond that of friendship to me. Her reaction at the tennis scene was pretty telling IMO. As though she was kind of tettering on the fence as to whether she should be friends or try for more and seeing him with Nagisa snapped her right out of it. I really liked her reaction in that scene.

I also agree that Kyou has it bad for Tomoya and it's hard to not feel for her with her playing the "nice sister" routine and helping Ryou. I wouldn't necessarily downplay Ryou's feelings though, especially given how incredibly embarrassed she is whenever he's around. Ryou is a bit more innocent about things, unlike Kyou who can play it casual having already been friends. I think both of the girls have equally strong feelings in their own way. I can't wait to see Ryou resolve things with her sister since it's obvious she knows.

This was one of those episodes that seems to go on forever like only Kyani can pull off. More, more more!

[ndm]

I agree with your sentiments on Kotomi just being friends, but to me Tomoyo falls in the same category. Her behavior towards Tomoya never seemed romantic or anything beyond that of friendship to me.

I also agree that Kyou has it bad for Tomoya and it's hard to not feel for her with her playing the "nice sister" routine and helping Ryou. I wouldn't necessarily downplay Ryou's feelings though, especially given how incredibly embarrassed she is whenever he's around.

I agree with you that Tomoyo never made it out of the "friend" category, but I'd still consider her a potential love interest because she certainly seemed interested in possibly going that way eventually (her questions about why Tomoya didn't want a girlfriend spring immediately to mind). But it never had much of a change to develop, so it didn't hit her as hard when she saw he had feelings for Nagisa.

With Ryou, though, while she definitely has true feelings for Tomoya I tend to have a slightly negative opinion of her. Both she and Kyou like Tomoya, but Ryou gets to be the one to be supported by her sister and doesn't offer anything in return. If Ryou was a truly nice girl I'd think she'd try to arrange an equal number of chances for Kyou to succeed. Because she doesn't I tend to think of her as having a fingernail-thin selfish streak that Kyou doesn't, so she doesn't deserve to "win".

As a complete aside, one thing I really like about the KyoAniKey trilogy is that the main characters in Air, Kanon and Clannad really do seem like the kinds of guys who could draw the female attention they receive. They're not just generic harem anime male leads who wimp out at every turn.

[Ty]

As a complete aside, one thing I really like about the KyoAniKey trilogy is that the main characters in Air, Kanon and Clannad really do seem like the kinds of guys who could draw the female attention they receive. They're not just generic harem anime male leads who wimp out at every turn.
Agreed. Nothing else even comes close. I like Tomoya every bit as much as the girls, and aside from Kanon there is NO other show within this entire genre whose male lead deserves the same praise.

[William K]

I agree with your sentiments on Kotomi just being friends, but to me Tomoyo falls in the same category. Her behavior towards Tomoya never seemed romantic or anything beyond that of friendship to me. Her reaction at the tennis scene was pretty telling IMO. As though she was kind of tettering on the fence as to whether she should be friends or try for more and seeing him with Nagisa snapped her right out of it. I really liked her reaction in that scene.

It's usually hard to judge emotions based on facial expressions, but that scene captured clearly a wistful "What could have been" look on Tomoyo's face. You know, the reaction when you meet an attractive woman, chat for a while, and then she mentions her husband and children :P

[HitokiriShadow]

Sanae-sensei! No wonder Nagisa got her to teach Fuuko's class.

I loved Nagisa's "Hue-hue-hue?" when Sunohara said she really liked him instead.

And *shock!* the Furukawa family's past isn't all sunshine and glitter.

[EmperorBrandon]

Yay, an episode full of Furukawa love :beat: I liked this one for sure. I'm really curious to find what's up with their past - there seem to be a few hints dropped around the episode (and the next ep. preview).

The little bits with Nagisa "taming" Okazaki at the beginning of the episode was really cute. Nice to see her taking control. :)

The little blonde haired girl in Sanae's cram school class made me think of Misuzu. The part with Sanae acting as a teacher in Fuuko's arc came to mind here (I guess that makes much more sense now).

[aquastar831]

Yay, an episode full of Furukawa love :beat: I liked this one for sure. I'm really curious to find what's up with their past - there seem to be a few hints dropped around the episode (and the next ep. preview).

The little bits with Nagisa "taming" Okazaki at the beginning of the episode was really cute. Nice to see her taking control. :)

The little blonde haired girl in Sanae's cram school class made me think of Misuzu. The part with Sanae acting as a teacher in Fuuko's arc came to mind here (I guess that makes much more sense now).

I was thinking the exact same thing about the girl in Sanae's class, just only the eye colors were different, otherwise, you'd have a mini-Misuzu.

Word has it that they're only going to do 22 episodes which is a weird number. Could that explain why they took a break in the series a few times for broadcast, so that it would end right at the end the Winter season (March)? And it doesn't seem like they're going to do the After Stories for the girls, unless Kyoto Animation has a surprise up their sleeve for us.

Most likely, I think at the end of Clannad, it'll probably be a preview for more Haruhi, or they may be doing an anime for Little Busters.

To back up on ep 18, that food scene was great. Ah, lucky guy to have several lovely ladies fighting over him. And in this week's episode, we've got Nagisa keeping Tomoya in line.

[EmperorBrandon]

Word has it that they're only going to do 22 episodes which is a weird number. Could that explain why they took a break in the series a few times for broadcast, so that it would end right at the end the Winter season (March)? And it doesn't seem like they're going to do the After Stories for the girls, unless Kyoto Animation has a surprise up their sleeve for us.

Where did you hear that? I'm pretty sure the official number is 24. There are going to be 8 DVD volumes of three episodes each, as stated on the official website (http://www.tbs.co.jp/clannad/01news/news.html).

[aquastar831]

http://naomi.thewafflehouse.net/blog/2008/02/29/clannad-tv-why-only-22/

I do agree with him that the After Stories would basically need another season to cover all of them. Personally, I would like a Tomoyo After OVA, though they would have to pull a Rumbling Hearts with alternate universe paths.

[stfram]

The little bits with Nagisa "taming" Okazaki at the beginning of the episode was really cute.

I liked her angry face when Okazaki kept trying to run away from his advisor, who wanted to meet his father personally.

Then the understanding face when she found out why.

This episode was also insightful as to how the Furukawa bakery actually made money: the old man does the baking, and attempts to keep his wife's attempts to a bare minimum. :sd:

While it's easy to think that the next story will be how Sanae sacrificed her middle school teacher career to be with her sick daughter, I'm wondering if it'll be that simple.

[EmperorBrandon]

He doesn't give any sort of source for his statement. Until I see some sort of official proof otherwise, I still believe Clannad is planned to be 24 episodes.

I think it's a bit premature to whine about anything (referring to some of the comments I see, not you here) until we actually see how Kyoto Animation wraps this one. The anime has been my first experience with Clannad and I'm enjoying it a lot. I guess if there's not enough space for things to be animated, then those who know about the game's storylines will be disappointed. As for me, I've said before, if there's anything I want to know about what didn't get animated, then I'll see for myself after the show is finished.

[stfram]

He doesn't give any sort of source for his statement. Until I see some sort of official proof otherwise, I still believe Clannad is planned to be 24 episodes.


Agreed. The blog really doesn't say anything other than how big the game is and how ambitious Key was in making it.

Edit: and he really didn't explain why it has to end at 22 eps, unless he was trying to avoid spoilers...

[hinode85]

He doesn't give any sort of source for his statement. Until I see some sort of official proof otherwise, I still believe Clannad is planned to be 24 episodes.

There's a magazine scan on animesuki explicitly stating that episode 22 is the final one, at least of this season. I'd link to it except I seem to recall people taking caution when mentioning that site and couldn't find any clarification in the forum rules page.

[Sly05]

I really wonder how people come up with these episode numbers some times. First it was 39, then it was 52, now 22? It's rare for series to get episode numbers like that so I'll stick with 24 as it seems the most believable.

Given that Clannad is based on a game with branching story arcs, it isn't much of a surprised that Kyoto Animation isn't going to be able to cover everything and maintain a coherent narrative. I haven't played the game (nor, I suspect, have most the people making crazy statements about episode counts. Reading a summery somewhere doesn't count.) so I can't really comment on the after stories, but I have confidence that Kyoto Animation will be able to conclude the main story with the remaining episodes.

[aquastar831]

I think this is where he found it:

http://cal.syoboi.jp/tid/1225

I know it's in Japanese and someone I know translated the "extra" episode as something like "The Summer Holiday Incident". Note that TBS is the first station that broadcasts the eps, then BS-i does the widescreen broadcasts.

[EmperorBrandon]

Hmm... perhaps this means there are going to be 22 episodes, and then two "extra" episodes after it (well, your source shows one, at least). That way it is still consistent with the previous DVD release schedule announcement (where 8x3=24). Ah well, I care not how many episodes it is, as long as they are good episodes. :)

[William K]

Yeah, I read that as a 1-hour epilogue special (or you can call it Ep 23 and 24). Sort of like a Code Geass S1 ending

[Fudce]

regardless of how they air episodes, you just know that dlw is waiting for the penultimate episode to air before he announces the licence... :evil:

[EmperorBrandon]

Yeah, I read that as a 1-hour epilogue special (or you can call it Ep 23 and 24). Sort of like a Code Geass S1 ending

Well, the schedule shows that the extra episode is 30 minutes, so it rules that out. Maybe another extra episode will follow later, though, or there will be some sort of DVD-only episode.

[Ty]

regardless of how they air episodes, you just know that dlw is waiting for the penultimate episode to air before he announces the licence... :evil:
And that the final episode has to be negotiated under a separate license and isn't included? I probably shouldn't even joke about such a horrible thought. Any license is a good license these days.

[EmperorBrandon]

regardless of how they air episodes, you just know that dlw is waiting for the penultimate episode to air before he announces the licence... :evil:

I don't care, as long as they do announce it at some point. I'll be jumping for joy regardless of the timing because it will likely mean more Kyle Jones-directed dub goodness to add to the superb Japanese track.

[aquastar831]

That reminds me, Clannad the Movie is out on R2 DVD this coming week. Like AIR the Movie, it is supposed to be a retelling of the Clannad story. Unfortunately, I think Fuuko and Kotomi are left out of this one, though we get some Nagisa, Tomoyo, and Kyou goodness. The weird thing is I have not found any synopsis/summaries on the movie anywhere, so I have no clue what the story is except hints according to the various trailers I've seen.

[Nosredna]

Nagisa is love. While I didn't think it was the best episode, I still thoroughly enjoyed it. I really liked the piano version of the ED when it was being played, it was a nice touch. And Sunohara's skit was pretty funny too.

[stfram]

There's a magazine scan on animesuki explicitly stating that episode 22 is the final one, at least of this season. I'd link to it except I seem to recall people taking caution when mentioning that site and couldn't find any clarification in the forum rules page.


This is a direct link to the scan in question:

http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=120419903363315928d7cc6.jpg

While I can't read Japanese, the translations offered confirm the revised episode count.

[William K]

The title of ep 22 is also the title of the ending song of the game. The words in the <brackets> after Ep 22 also says Final Episode, so hard to argue there :P

Looks like To Love Ru is taking over the time slot on the 3rd of April...

[Spirit Of The Stage]

Nagisa... :beat: :beat: :beat: Oh, and the once rivals of Kyou and Tomoyo now united in one common purpose...to beat the crap out of Sunohara. :evil: Lovely episode as I'm assuming we now come to the end of the series with the Nagisa arc...

Oh, and I finally succumbed to it - that evil dango song...I've done an English version to it....it was the dango, they made me do it!!!!

*

Series: Clannad
Placement: Ending
Japanese Title: Dango Daikazoku
English Title: The Big Dango Family
Length: 4:33
Style: Ballad
Lyrics by: Chris Homer

Notes: I’m sorry – I apologise now. I had to do this one – probably the most requested song ever – this extremely evil ending from Clannad has warped even the most stern of minds. It’s just…too…cute. It’s of course the ‘theme song’ to Nagisa’s favourite ‘Big Dango Family’ in Clannad – the hat trick of top shows from Key (the first two being Air and Kanon) and a very slow but sweet ballad about…a family of dango. Yeah, no need to make sense of it – just enjoy.

*

DANGO DAIKOZOKU

Dango, dango, dango, dango, dango, dango…big family
Dango, dango, dango, dango, dango…big family

One who’s fried and a bit naughty, one who’s kind and full of red beans
One who’s best walking in the Autumn, a dango full of dreams
One covered in top sesame seeds, together they’re a skewer of four
Gather them, all and the numbers read a hundred or so more

There’s a baby dango surrounded by all of its friends and family
There’s the grandpa dango eyes all narrowed but he will see…

…all the dango link in arms holding their hands together and make a big, round ring around the earth
Building such a dango town as everyone together just laughs for all they are worth
And the rabbit waves at them on this dango planet, watching from the moon above with a big grin
Rounding all the family, they will remember the good and bad of everything…

…all the dango link in arms holding their hands together and make a big, round ring around the earth
Building such a dango town as everyone together just laughs for all they are worth
And the rabbit waves at them on this dango planet, watching from the moon above with a big grin
Rounding all the family, they will remember the good and bad of everything…

La la la la la la la la la la…(to the verses)

Dango, dango, dango, dango, dango, dango…big family
Dango, dango, dango, dango, dango…big family

Dango, dango, dango, dango, dango, dango…big family
Dango, dango, dango, dango, dango…big family

[houkoholic]

The title of ep 22 is also the title of the ending song of the game. The words in the <brackets> after Ep 22 also says Final Episode, so hard to argue there :P

Still arguable, since Kage Futatsu is the ending to the School Life arc of the game, not the real ending song per sa.

[Shiroi Hane]

That reminds me, Clannad the Movie is out on R2 DVD this coming week. Like AIR the Movie, it is supposed to be a retelling of the Clannad story.
That reminds me.. when I pre-ordered my copy of the movie there was only one limited edition version showing on yesasia, and later on another version showed up that I would have preferred but they said that it was no longer available and I couldn't cancel my existing order.
I've not seen the Toei versions of any of the other key series, but I'm getting this one specifically because Megumi Kadonosono did the character designs.

[EmperorBrandon]

Well, the schedule shows that the extra episode is 30 minutes, so it rules that out. Maybe another extra episode will follow later, though, or there will be some sort of DVD-only episode.

Hrm... looking on the English Wikipedia entry now, it says that the 24th episode will be an OVA on the Vol. 8 DVD release (July 16, 2008). However, there is no source, so it could just be something someone made up... Does any one know of any source that confirms this?

[Splitter]

The title of ep 22 is also the title of the ending song of the game. The words in the <brackets> after Ep 22 also says Final Episode, so hard to argue there :P

Still arguable, since Kage Futatsu is the ending to the School Life arc of the game, not the real ending song per sa.


So the After arc will be in this 2-episode epilogue? And what's with the natsuyasumi special? I'm confused as to what the hell KyoAni is doing with this show now @_@

[relentlessflame]

Hrm... looking on the English Wikipedia entry now, it says that the 24th episode will be an OVA on the Vol. 8 DVD release (July 16, 2008). However, there is no source, so it could just be something someone made up... Does any one know of any source that confirms this?
Not in so many words, but it's been recently announced (in the most recent magazine of Newtype, I believe) that episode 23 was the last episode that would air on TV, and it's a side-story episode (some sources don't even number it "23", just "extra chapter"). Episode 22 is the end of the "main story". Since we know that the DVDs will have 8 discs with three episodes each based on the previous solicitations, there should be some other episode on the 8th DVD, though I haven't seen an announcement of what that might be. But it does seem like the 24th episode won't air on TV.

[EmperorBrandon]

And it seems this one was yet another great episode. We are getting to get a bit of the story behind the lonely girl and the junk doll now. Also, the bit about Nagisa's past that she was worrying over has come out with this episode. It was nothing unexpected or shocking, but I like how the revelation played out, from Akio telling Tomoya (Nagisa herself still doesn't know, seemingly, so I wonder if it ties into the next few eps. too). Akio is a pretty fun character and it was neat having him around more in this episode. The baseball game at the end was really sweet.

Well, two more episodes (apparently...). Definitely looking forward to how it turns out.

[Rhodes]

wow its Air (and Kanon) all over again.

One would think that the movie will look way better than the TV series... but alas its a repeat... KyoAni kicks ass compared to Toei.

well thats just my impression based on the trailer for the movie... will see if it gets better but once your spoiled rotten by KyoAni's work...

[EmperorBrandon]

I haven't really tried out any of the Toei versions of Key titles yet. I'm somewhat curious, so maybe I will do so eventually. Anything else Clannad will have to wait until I have seen all of KyoAni's version.

[Sly05]

I really liked the baseball scene, especially Nagisa's little slip (and her parents reactions). I was really worried she was going to collapse after Tomoya told her to run. I'm glad she didn't. I guess Air and Kanon have conditioned me to expect bad things to happen, though I imagine things won't be completely rosy for the last couple episodes.

[something]

And so my epic journey to get caught up again on the... oh about 30-40 episodes I need to watch starts with, as if it were ever in doubt, Clannad. Gundam will follow, the Spice and Wolf. I'll probably keep all my posts relatively short in the interest of knocking down as much as I can. This should be fun.

Episode 19:

- Yessss, Tomoyo delivers. The theater club is reestablished, and now they set to work fulfilling Nagisa's dream...
- Ooh, five orbs. And the other piece of the final stretch puzzle - Tomoya's home life coming into sharper focus. A home visit by his teacher sounds very awkward.
- Serious business Nagisa is love! I love that angry look on her face while she drags Tomoya back into the faculty room. And shit yes, she gets invited along for the home visit! Though his father is probably the last person on earth Tomoya wants her to meet.
- Ah well, she has other business to attend to, but she finds him anyway when he runs away again :sd: Stern onee-san Nagisa is epic. Utterly epic.
- Progress, oh god progress. The Nagisa-Tomoya climax, whatever it is, is going to be amazing if this is any indication. Nagisa's growth as a character from the beginning has been depicted so beautifully, to the point where Tomoya isn't just taking care of her and guiding her through her clumsy attempts at making friends. Now she's the one guiding him, watching him, helping him. She's there to suggest he come stay at her house for awhile given the difficulties he's having at home. She has a plan, and she wants to do whatever she can to help him out.
- Know what else I like? The way they're playing this Tomoya/father conflict to realistically, so respectfully. It's not a burst of hatred and angst and violence, it's just the slow, soul crushing weight of emotional separation. They live in the same place, but without interacting. And for all his talk about hating his father, Tomoya clearly still cares, clearly still wants things to improve. Thank god Nagisa is there for him when he needs it.
- And so what he gets, for the first time in a long time, is a family. Sanae, Akio, Nagisa. Eating together. Talking together. Saying goodbye on the way to school. Simple things he must have all but forgotten by now.
- And there's Nagisa, always by his side, helping him adjust. Because he's not all powerful, he's not emotionally tough, he's a vulnerable guy with feelings and issues and he can only cover so much of that up with his wit. He's just so completely human and I can't get over what a delight it is to watch him.
- Oh, and beautiful rendition of the dango theme to back it all up.
- Second part.
- Youhei brings the comedy again! I loved watching him play with the sound effect keyboard. And I'm totally with him, he didn't deserve to be punched! :sd: Poor Youhei!
- Professor Sanae! Well, a cram school... makes sense, if you ask me. But now we see that Sanae even has some baggage to deal with, given the apparently complicated circumstances of her leaving her middle school teaching position. Interesting.
- And yet more questions. Nagisa feels like her parents are hiding something from her, something from when she was young, something terrible she did... Connected to the girl in the OP maybe? So many questions!
- Poor Youhei again! So jealous that Tomoya is living with Nagisa. And he brings up an important point - Tomoya and Nagisa are about the only ones who don't consider themselves a couple. Everyone else sees it, whether they like it or not.
- YES! The girl and the robot! If there is one thing I've been hesitant about with Clannad, it's how they planned to work them in. We got a lot of them early on, but lately they've been forgotten. And given that they must be really important, that troubled me. But here they are again, finally.

Oh crap, it's over, need more~. So much for making these posts "shorter" (and I didn't even do all that much straight summarization of events), but it's Clannad, goddamnit.

That was a masterful episode, throwing in plot revelations and new developments and hinting at new emotional baggage while remaining as relaxing as an episode of Aria. Now for 20.

[something]

Word has it that they're only going to do 22 episodes which is a weird number.
I was wondering why there were so many posts for 19, now I see. This is... depressing news. Of all the shows to cut short at 22 episodes (of main storyline anyway), why Clannad?

It's KyoAni so I don't really worry about the quality of what we'll see, but honestly, Why Clannad of all things!? That's just so wrong. Even KyoAni is going to have to be at the peak of their game to do everything in 3 more episodes (2 once I watch 20).

Siiiigh. No use worrying about it now.

[EmperorBrandon]

- Ah well, she has other business to attend to, but she finds him anyway when he runs away again :sd: Stern onee-san Nagisa is epic. Utterly epic.

Epic indeed. Epic and :beat: Anyway, I'm very fond of Mai Nakahara voicing her. I mean, I've liked her throughout the whole series no doubt (always been a fan of her voice since I've first heard her), but I think the little things like this in the last few episodes were done really well.

[EmperorBrandon]

I was wondering why there were so many posts for 19, now I see. This is... depressing news. Of all the shows to cut short at 22 episodes (of main storyline anyway), why Clannad?

It's KyoAni so I don't really worry about the quality of what we'll see, but honestly, Why Clannad of all things!? That's just so wrong. Even KyoAni is going to have to be at the peak of their game to do everything in 3 more episodes (2 once I watch 20).

Siiiigh. No use worrying about it now.

Seems a little weird, but perhaps they have 22 episodes of main story in mind from the beginning rather than "cutting" anything back. I'm sure they have their reasons, and given how well they've done the series so far, maybe good reasons.

[something]

Episode 20:

- There's the connection. "Did you remember anything about the play?" And what is it about? A girl all alone in the world, a world that has ended. A sad, sad story. Bingo. Cue OP.
- It's the girl and the robot again, and though they've completed a second robot, it does not move. Crying, the girls embraces the robot and apologizes.
- Tomoya looks to Akio and Sanae for assistance in helping Nagisa remember the story. Neither have any idea. Sanae recommends searching the house, Akio tells Tomoya to run anything he finds by him before telling Nagisa. Now that's incredibly suspicious.
- A trip to Yukine's cafe results in more love charm hilarity, and a Fuuko scene that I'm hoping even the diehard Fuuko haters can't object to - she doesn't even speak! Youhei strikes out, but Tomoya's charm "activates" on none other than Nagisa. Destined indeed. Later Nagisa tells the other girls and Youhei about the story, but they're not familiar with it. Tomoya, however, is... but like a good Key lead male, his defective memory can't dredge the details up.
- Tomoya's search continues, but Akio hampers his efforts, particularly when Tomoya and Nagisa head into the shed. Finally Akio decides to tell Tomoya (but not Sanae or Nagisa) why he's worried about all this - things in the shed relate to his and Sanae's past.
- A couple things come together with his story. When Sanae and Akio were young, and Nagisa younger, they'd finally gotten their dream jobs. But that meant they were busy, too busy to be with Nagisa. Not out of malice but nonetheless irresponsibly, they left her alone one night, just for two hours, while she was running a fever. When Akio rushed home, Nagisa was lying in the snow outside, inches from death.
- From that day onward, Akio and Sanae have never left her behind. They quit their demanding jobs, and took up positions closer to home: baking and the cram school. They've never told Nagisa, however, about the whole situation or why they quit their jobs. But nonetheless, as she indicated to Tomoya in 19, Nagisa is getting a vague sense that something did happen. Akio can't bring himself to tell her, not until he finds the right time...
- Picnic! But Tomoya, still unsure of himself, bails. He hides out at Youhei's, leaving only a vague note for Nagisa. But Youhei rocks the episode by delivering a really sharp and insightful analysis of both Nagisa and Tomoya. He counters all Tomoya's excuses, and lays bare the fact that Tomoya may say he's doing this for Nagisa, but in reality it's only his own indecisiveness. And because he's like that, he's trapping Nagisa emotionally. The point is made. Tomoya runs back to the Furukawas'
- Nagisa never saw the note, but Akio and Sanae did, and they completely ignored it - they trusted he'd be back.

And 20 ends beautifully. So, so beautifully.

Because they waited for Tomoya it's pretty late now, so they have to eat nearby, in the park where Akio plays baseball with the local kids. Akio gets a hit, turns to Sanae, and says "Did you see that?" "Yes, I saw it clearly" she replies. He teases, "Did you fall in love with me all over again?" "Yes!" she smiles and responds.

Yet another (predictably wonderful) Dango remix plays while Tomoya steps up to the plate, and scores a hit of his own. Tomoya turns to Nagisa, and copying Akio, says "Nagisa, did you see that?" Nagisa's own reply matches Sanae's. Then Akio picks up the second part: "Did you fall in love with him all over again?"

"Ye-," she exclaims before she catches herself. Akio's magical cigarette falls from his mouth. Nagisa and Tomoya blush. Sanae looks excitedly from one to the other. That... that was one of the most amusing and adorable confessions ever. Trying to break up the suddenly mood swing, Akio tells Nagisa to hurry up and bat.

She swings and connects. "Good one Nagisa!" - "Yes!"

"Start running, Nagisa!"

Run and never stop, Nagisa. Always look ahead, always keep moving. And bring Tomoya right along with you. It's your story now. You can do it. I know you can. ::forces back happy tears, fails completely:: I'm going to be rewatching this scene quite a bit...

God I love Clannad ;_;

Crap, how do I switch emotional gears to Gundam now?

[EmperorBrandon]

::forces back happy tears, fails completely:: I'm going to be rewatching this scene quite a bit...

God I love Clannad ;_;
[/quote]
I've had quite a few happy tears with Clannad, and I'm not one who will just tear up at anything, either. Same thing goes with wanting to rewatch scenes too. There are just so many that have been done awesomely. Yes, I'm completely, helplessly addicted to this series.

Same thing goes for any iteration of that Dango song. I love it, whether in the ED itself or the instrumental versions in the show or Nagisa singing it in show.

[HitokiriShadow]

Fuuko's appearance here and Tomoya's reaction was pure gold. The rest of the episode was great as well. Nagisa is, by far, the best of the three KeyAni leads and I really enjoy watching her and Tomoya's relationship grow.

[HitokiriShadow]

Word has it that they're only going to do 22 episodes which is a weird number.
I was wondering why there were so many posts for 19, now I see. This is... depressing news. Of all the shows to cut short at 22 episodes (of main storyline anyway), why Clannad?

It's KyoAni so I don't really worry about the quality of what we'll see, but honestly, Why Clannad of all things!? That's just so wrong. Even KyoAni is going to have to be at the peak of their game to do everything in 3 more episodes (2 once I watch 20).

Siiiigh. No use worrying about it now.

If this is true, the main thing that bugs me is that they didn't spend an extra episode on the Kyou and Tomoyo arc. Considering that there is apparently a large amount of material they could still cover, I'm hoping they are just going for a good cut-off point and will do another cour or two down the road. Or they are skipping a bunch of stuff and just going to the end arc, for better or for worse. In either case, at the very least they could have given Kyou and Tomoyo some more time in the spotlight. Oh well....

[stfram]

Episode 20:
Tomoya turns to Nagisa, and copying Akio, says "Nagisa, did you see that?" Nagisa's own reply matches Sanae's. Then Akio picks up the second part: "Did you fall in love with him all over again?"

"Ye-," she exclaims before she catches herself. Akio's magical cigarette falls from his mouth. Nagisa and Tomoya blush. Sanae looks excitedly from one to the other.


This...THIS is why I watch anime.

Akio put his foot in his mouth constantly in this episode.

"Don't tell Sanae!"

"I'm right here dear!"

"GWAHH! Where did you come from?!" (right after she just gave him tea not five seconds before)

This confession setup is right up there with the "first kiss" scene in Please Teacher, or Haruka's Last Great Act of Defiance in My-HiME. Pure awesomeness.


God I love Clannad ;_;

Crap, how do I switch emotional gears to Gundam now?


Kill something! :>

[stfram]

I'm hoping they are just going for a good cut-off point and will do another cour or two down the road.


That's my hope as well.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, however you look at it) they've neglected Haruhi for far too long: Kanon 06, Lucky Star, and now Clannad.

The scheduling is odd, but it's possible they've been internally greenlit for a second season...after Haruhi Season 2.

Pure supposition here:

They wanted to do 24, but they also wanted to cover some of the cute little side stories, as well as end on a clean break. So they accelerate the arc in 22 eps, and devote the last two to side stories, with one being an "OVA" episode that will drive disc sales.

The sales of the last disc will prove the viability of a second season of Clannad.

The money guys have got to be getting restless, since Haruhi is a no-risk moneymaker, with massive soundtrack, DVD, and book sales.

But they need to strike while the iron is still hot.

Clannad, lots of fan interest, but they're dependent on DVD sales and TV revenue almost exclusively, since Key controls most of the merchandising.

[cjed]

Episode 20:
... I'm going to be rewatching this scene quite a bit...


While I didn't quite connect with KyoAni's Kanon, I'm really enjoying Clannad. I almost never re-watch scenes, but in the last few episodes there have been some exceptional scenes, the basketball match, Kyou and Tomoya in the storeroom, Tomoyo's tennis match and now this.

It's going to be a long wait for the DVDs ...

[HitokiriShadow]

I'm hoping they are just going for a good cut-off point and will do another cour or two down the road.


That's my hope as well.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, however you look at it) they've neglected Haruhi for far too long: Kanon 06, Lucky Star, and now Clannad.

The scheduling is odd, but it's possible they've been internally greenlit for a second season...after Haruhi Season 2.


Well that's what I figured they would do, assuming that's the case. They've already announced Haruhi for this year, so any more episodes of Clannad would have to come after that.

[stfram]

They've already announced Haruhi for this year, so any more episodes of Clannad would have to come after that.


When is it scheduled for release this year?

[something]

When is it scheduled for release this year?
Not sure if they've said, but I figure it has to be a fall show. I guess KyoAni doesn't have any Spring shows lined up, so we'll be KyoAni-less for at least a cour. ;_;

[stfram]

When is it scheduled for release this year?
Not sure if they've said, but I figure it has to be a fall show. I guess KyoAni doesn't have any Spring shows lined up, so we'll be KyoAni-less for at least a cour. ;_;

Which means we'll be Clannad-less until 2009, if they are planning a second season. :(

[Rhodes]

why would they plan a 2nd season? all the girls routes will be done with the end of Nagisa's.

Unless your talking about Tomoyo After... but that would be a different show since Clannad didnt end with Tomoyo's route, it's ending with Nagisa.

[HitokiriShadow]

When is it scheduled for release this year?
Not sure if they've said, but I figure it has to be a fall show. I guess KyoAni doesn't have any Spring shows lined up, so we'll be KyoAni-less for at least a cour. ;_;

I'm assuming its going to start in the summer cour, though they could certainly do two cours and the second season could cover fall as well. If its only one cour, there could be something else (more Clannad or, god forbid, finally more FMP!) in the fall slot.

[stfram]

why would they plan a 2nd season? all the girls routes will be done with the end of Nagisa's.


Apparently there's a crapload more content they could animate, according to those that have played the games..and apparently not just Tomoyo After.

Of course, they could just end with that and call it good. That's a definite possibility. :(

[ndm]

why would they plan a 2nd season? all the girls routes will be done with the end of Nagisa's.


Apparently there's a crapload more content they could animate, according to those that have played the games..and apparently not just Tomoyo After.

Of course, they could just end with that and call it good. That's a definite possibility. :(

Except that the other content can't really be animated at this point unless they choose to do series with alternative timelines, and I really don't see that happening. Kyou's story, for example, depends on Tomoya becoming Ryou's boyfriend. I've played the game and I really don't see them adding any more seasons once it's done. I expect them to just start preparing to animate Little Busters in a year or two instead.

[stfram]

Except that the other content can't really be animated at this point unless they choose to do series with alternative timelines, and I really don't see that happening.


OK, going by the blog linked in this thread earlier. No real spoilers here, just commentary on the length of the game, and the fact that an "After" arc exists.


What I’m coming to notice is that a lot of people are claiming that CLANNAD TV as a whole was a “failure� as an anime, mainly because it failed to throw in After Story within the last arc of the series. Let me tell you something; I am actually glad Kyoto Animation didn’t squeeze it in. After Story is way too big of an arc, probably just as long as School Life on its own. It cannot run as a 3-episode OVA, nor as a single episode, but it will require minimum 13. If it doesn’t meet that requirement, there is no way CLANNAD can be properly explored. After Story is the most important part of CLANNAD, and it needs to be told properly. To end on episode 22 is a hard decision to make, but one that is necessary (and will tick off a lot of fans, I will bet).


Comments, since you've played the game?

Please, spoiler-hide if necessary, and don't give out any specific details, if at all possible. Something won't like that. :)

[Shiroi Hane]

I haven't really tried out any of the Toei versions of Key titles yet. I'm somewhat curious, so maybe I will do so eventually. Anything else Clannad will have to wait until I have seen all of KyoAni's version.
Clannad will be my first, as the DVD shipped the other day. The only reason I'm picking it up this time around is the character designer.

[Shiroi Hane]

I was really worried she was going to collapse after Tomoya told her to run.
Glad I wasn't the only one.

[ndm]

Comments, since you've played the game?

Please, spoiler-hide if necessary, and don't give out any specific details, if at all possible. Something won't like that. :)

I won't give any spoilers while the anime is still ongoing, since it's not fair to everyone (though I think we're past the point where any comments I could make would be anime spoilers), but I think it's okay to say that at least a couple of the story paths preclude the others happening. Like I said, the Kyou path was based on Ryou asking Tomoya out and him accepting.

I never played the Clannad After game, but I'm fairly sure it takes place as an epilogue to the Tomoyo path, so I don't see how it could possibly be used when the anime took the Nagisa storyline as its basis, aside from showing where the characters ended up after school.

[hinode85]

You're confusing After Story with Tomoyo After. The former is part of the main Clannad game, and is what the velocity7 (I think he's the one stfram was quoting, at least) was referring to.

[stfram]

You're confusing After Story with Tomoyo After. The former is part of the main Clannad game, and is what the velocity7 (I think he's the one stfram was quoting, at least) was referring to.

Correct.

In fact, here's a comment made on the blog post regarding After Story, by V7:

"Nope, After Story is long. It is no epilogue."

I guess we'll find out in a few weeks what the situation is going to be. :)

[Ty]

Exactly. Like any good procrastinator the best plan is to worry about it when we get there. :P

[something]

Oh god it's almost over ;_;

Episode 21:

- Wow. Episode starts, and it's a minute and a half of vocalization/articulation practice with nonsense phrases from tongue-twister hell. I guarantee the seiyuu had fun doing that scene together.
- After the OP everyone is doing stretching exercises, including Ryou and Kotomi doing that thing where you go back-to-back and bend over. The camera finds a nice position. Why they're stretching (and voice practice for that matter) when only Nagisa is acting, I don't know, but who cares? Ryou and Kotomi get sound, Youhei and Kyou get lights, Tomoya does effects and directs. Sanae is recruited for costumes.
- Back at the Furukawa house, Nagisa watches a tape of a play her father found for her. Then she drops another bomb: she's never even seen a play before. As she stays up late watching the tape for reference, Akio calls Tomoya out and they look through the shed, but still don't find the book, or even know that's what it really was. Tomoya wonders if it really is a play she saw, but Akio says he'd know if she ever saw anything like that. I say it's not a play, nor a book, but rather a dream she's had. A dream of the girl and the robot. We don't have time for much else really, with the next episode being essentially the last >_<
- Rie helps Nagisa pick out music to go with the play, and the first attempt really wins Nagisa over. Then Tomoyo comes in... with glasses! And her scene is short but incredibly sweet. She walks up to Nagisa, and congratulates her for working so hard, and says they both have a long way to go. She pats Nagisa's head (even I forgot who the upperclassmen was for a moment :sd: ) and says "You really are a good girl. I'm glad it was you." Then the camera shifts quickly to Kyou, Ryou, and Kotomi, and without a word speaks volumes upon volumes. Wow.
- And as she does so, that beautiful background track comes in yet again, and loses none of its power. Every single time I hear it I tense up a little, breathe a little less, get misty eyed so easily. This was no exception, as we watch Nagisa practice for everyone, listening intently to Komura-sensei, working late into the night... like Tomoya says, the growth she's shown has been nothing short of phenomenal and it chokes me up just to think about it. I love Nagisa so immensely.
- Nagisa is so intensely immersed in reading her script that she doesn't even hear Tomoya. He even whispers "You're really cute" and she automatically responds "Can you hold it until later?", not paying one bit of attention. She's about to walk right into a pole when Tomoya takes her by the shoulders and guides her to safety - and again she doesn't even notice.
- And it's the day before the festival, so an official practice is being held. While they wait backstage, Nagisa gets tense. Some humor follows as the gang tries to calm her down (alien invasion!). And she looks adorable in her costume. Finally it's her turn.
- We don't see it of course (that's what 22 is for), and so the next scene is late at night, back at the Furukawa house. The rehearsal went perfectly. After some banter with the parents, they head to their rooms.
- Nagisa comes in to Tomoya's room and asks if she can sit next to him. She doesn't seem to want anything in particular - she's just nervous. He reassures her a bit, and sends her off to prep then get some sleep.
- But of course things can't go too smoothly. She grabs a flashlight but the batteries are dead. And so she goes into the shed to find a replacement. But what she finds are the photo albums and diaries from when Akio and Sanae were younger. She also finds out that Akio was an actor, no less. And that it was all given up so they could be with her.

The absolute worst time for her to find out. Tomoya tells her not to think about it, and tells her to get at least a little bit of rest. He sends her off to bed, and soon after Akio comes in. He instantly realizes what happened, and all he can do is curse himself for not telling her earlier.

I can't believe there's only one episode left ;_;

I think I'm going to marathon the entire show again before 22 comes out.

[HitokiriShadow]

I can't believe there's only one episode left ;_;


Well, there's still 23. ANN has still has it listed for a 3/27 air date, though it could always be wrong.

Tomoyo thinks she doesn't look good in glasses. She is wrong.

[Nosredna]

I can't believe there's only one episode left ;_;


Well, there's still 23. ANN has still has it listed for a 3/27 air date, though it could always be wrong.

In the previews it said "Final Episode" but I guess you can take that for what it's worth :P .

[HitokiriShadow]

I'll take the TV preview's word over ANN. Someone probably just assumed it would actually air and put it in the next weeks slot.

[something]

I'll take the TV preview's word over ANN. Someone probably just assumed it would actually air and put it in the next weeks slot.
It is listed to air then according to the site that lists schedules of anime for various stations, but to me it doesn't count either way since it's just an omake. It won't give us an extra episode of Nagisa arc, so meh whatever.

I'm sure it'll be good in its own right, but again it just doesn't "count" at the moment.

[Ty]

I'll take the TV preview's word over ANN. Someone probably just assumed it would actually air and put it in the next weeks slot.
It is listed to air then according to the site that lists schedules of anime for various stations, but to me it doesn't count either way since it's just an omake. It won't give us an extra episode of Nagisa arc, so meh whatever.

I'm sure it'll be good in its own right, but again it just doesn't "count" at the moment.
Ah, but you're underestimating Kyoto Animation's power to amaze and delight. Even if ep.22 doesn't completely blow our minds within it's 22 minutes (which I think it will), I think they're going to do a summer special sort of thing like they did with Air only it will be more directly story related. I have to say though the show has come upon it's "last" episode so hard and fast it's left me unsettled nevertheless. The pacing and heavy emphasis on character interaction instead of story development just screamed "I'm going to be 39 episodes long!" only to have our hearts crushed by the cold steely hand of reality.

[something]

The pacing and heavy emphasis on character interaction instead of story development just screamed "I'm going to be 39 episodes long!" only to have our hearts crushed by the cold steely hand of reality.
True enough. Before Clannad aired, I could only guess as to what kind of show it would be. My expectations were a bit off - Fuuko aside, there's been very very little of the supernatural side of Key's work. When we started off with a girl and a semi-sentient robot in a barren landscape at the end of the world, I thought Clannad was going to be pretty heavily into that. But it's not - it's kind of like the anti-AIR in that sense.

Instead it's been incredibly down to earth. Everything they've done so far has been a shining paragon of character interaction and comedic timing and dramatic acting and beautiful animation and touching music and all that, but it's quite unlike what many expected. I grasped much of this early (which is why I had no problem whatsoever with Kyou and Tomoyo not getting traditional bishoujo anime "story arcs") but the way Nagisa's story is going has definitely surprised me.

Barring something completely out of this world in 22 - and there's no time for anything like that at all if you ask me - one of the most striking things about Nagisa's final story is how incredibly normal it all is. The lonely girl and the robot? The young girl in the OP? They can't really play too much of a role at this point. The latter, especially, I can't see the point of at all right now. Let's face it, everyone other than the Fuuko wild card right now is... human. Plain old human.

The ending is indeed coming with unsettling speed, especially when just a few episodes ago I was blissfully convinced we'd have quite a long time to spend with Nagisa, getting deep into what ever mysteries surrounded her, figuring we had until 24 at the very least... Then we were sort of run straight smack into a wall. But Kyoto Animation has the skill to make even that a pleasant experience. Or at least, they always have in the past, and Clannad thus far hasn't given me a reason to think 22 will be different.

I've been constantly readjusting my expectations with Clannad, though that doesn't mean I scaled them back. I just shifted them around laterally. No drop in expected quality, just very different ideas about how that quality would be experienced. I'd be lying utterly to say I'm not extremely disappointed with it ending so soon, but I think they'll give me a reason to happily forgive that by the time 22 is done.

I think, or at least, I hope. I realize I'm not being quite fair. I hold no other studio up to such demanding expectations. SHAFT might come closest and even there I'm infinitely more forgiving. But I hold KyoAni this high because they've always gone that high and higher.

This is exactly why I want to marathon the whole show before I watch 22 though. I was to remember exactly what kind of show it's been, so I judge 22 within a larger context. Unfortunately it seems I've inadvertently double booked myself on marathons, because I intended to marathon Geass again before watching 24-25 in anticipation of R2, and I should be doing that in the next week and a half too...

Well, I recently caught up on ongoing shows, so this would be a good time to get on that!

[Buster Blader 126]

Got around to watching 20-21 today.

Watching the Nagisa arc made me remember why I liked her so much right off the bat: she's so gosh darn cute!

I honestly thought that the story involving the last girl on earth and the robot would hold more meaning as well. Despite that, I'm not disappointed. The fact that it was some sort of play(?) is still OK in my book.

Two of my favourite scenes during the last two episodes are:

- During practise in Episode 21, where Tomoyo tells Nagisa "I'm glad it was you." (that Tomoya picked.) I liked how they did quick shots of Kyo, Kotomi, and Ryo immediately afterwards.
- The picnic/baseball scene in Episode 20. It was such an endearing scene, that I couldn't help but put a smile on my face. :) :D Definitely one of the cutest "confessions" I've seen in any particular anime title.

On another note, I seriously wonder how it turned out that Clannad would have only 22 episodes, story-wise. It kind of saddens me that Clannad will be over faster than I thought it'd be.

Well, that's all from me for now. Pardon me while I go watch the baseball scene again. :)

[Ty]

The lonely girl and the robot? The young girl in the OP? They can't really play too much of a role at this point.
That has been bugging me as well. It feels like a loose end, and that isn't something I'm accustomed to from this staff. Compared to Kanon where everything and everyone wraps up so beautifully you can call it art, Clannad has this feeling of leaving quite a few major points unfinished.

My personal conjecture is that the girl/robot backstory and a couple of other things will get touched up in the specials. I don't think the specials will be about Tomoyo After or the game extension people have been talking about personally. They may even pull a deus ex machina of sorts and very deliberately leave Nagisa's story unsettled so it can be addressed in the proper amount of time with the OVAs. There must be a reason for chopping the series off at 22 episode. There has to be. I too am bothered by Nagisa getting her time cut short this way. The pacing they set for the development between the two was such that it would've taken much longer to play out naturally, and I have no doubt the show's fans would have been glad to sit down for it all.

I guess we'll see what happens won't we. :)

[stfram]

My personal conjecture is that the girl/robot backstory and a couple of other things will get touched up in the specials.


I suspect we'll find out the resolution to the girl/robot story when Nagisa's play starts in the second half.

My guess: Nagisa will start speaking to the audience, the screen will fade out, it'll be replaced by the girl and the robot, and we'll "watch" the play in the Ended World.


I don't think the specials will be about Tomoyo After or the game extension people have been talking about personally.


Nah, I expect that will be left for a second season....if there ever is one. *crosses fingers*

Everyone says that the After School part of the game is massive, so I'll take them at their word.

Ep. 23 and the OVA are likely just to be fun stories. Heck, the OVA could be the story about Fuuko's actual return to the real world.


There must be a reason for chopping the series off at 22 episode. There has to be.


It's weird that there's been no real explanation as to why this is the case, whether it was planned from the beginning, or things changed mid-production.

[Atomsk]

I just wish they'd hurry up with the Tomoya - Nagisa romance. It's such a cheap trick to keep postponing this "to keep viewers interested" (as if the whole story would collapse when they would make out a bit sooner). Tomoya now acts like a robot who has only a platonic love for Nagisa, only feeling inhibited by his negative self image. Does provide a nice parallel with the "girl in a world that has ended" of course, but IRL it's rather unrealistic as falling in love also has some physical (or chemical) aspects that can't be ignored. Also Tomoya is a rather social person apart from his troubles with his father.

That's my only peeve though, otherwise it's beautifully animated show.

[something]

Heck, the OVA could be the story about Fuuko's actual return to the real world.
That's what I've been hoping. It seems wrong to have such a beautiful ending to her arc and then leave us hanging on where it goes after. We know she's still alive and presumably healthy because her "other half" has been popping up. But what beyond that? It won't be the end of the world if we don't get more on her, but in that case 23 better focus on advancing Nagisa and Tomoya if 22 doesn't.

Anyway I'm on episode 17 of my rewatch. Figure I finish tonight and 22 comes out from the group I prefer on Friday, if the pattern holds. I'm also able to watch 1-20 widescreen, which is nice since I had only done widescreen for most of Fuuko's arc before.

It's weird that there's been no real explanation as to why this is the case, whether it was planned from the beginning, or things changed mid-production.
I really feel like this took them by surprise. They must have been expecting to have at least one more regular episode.

[Ty]

I just wish they'd hurry up with the Tomoya - Nagisa romance.
Now that the end is nigh, I too wish they had moved things a bit faster. Their relationship seems like it's been in a holding position since the end of the Fuko arc. When Tomoya moved in that was a perfect opportunity to really make the two more intimate, but they completely kept the status quo between them and it's a shame they did.

[something]

Now that the end is nigh, I too wish they had moved things a bit faster. Their relationship seems like it's been in a holding position since the end of the Fuko arc. When Tomoya moved in that was a perfect opportunity to really make the two more intimate, but they completely kept the status quo between them and it's a shame they did.
Right after Nagisa gave up the idea of the club to let Nishina have Koumura, there was a really perfect moment that Kyou just went and uttrely destroyed. The legendary, epic KYOCKBLOCK.

Tomoya has also had Nagisa on his mind increasingly often, so he's definitely thinking about her. And the big moment was the one that singlehandedly smited Kyou, Ryou and (mostly preemptively) Tomoyo all at once, at the tennis match.

It's all subtle, of course, and I do agree I'd like to see something more explicitly confirmed, but it's definitely there and I think they both know it.

[William K]

There must be a reason for chopping the series off at 22 episode. There has to be.

It's weird that there's been no real explanation as to why this is the case, whether it was planned from the beginning, or things changed mid-production.

Pure speculation, but after watching the movie version and seeing how that ended, maybe they decided to scrap 23 & 24 because it was similar to that version and they decided that particular ending was too negative?

Counts the hours until I can get home and d/l ep 22 :P

[something]

Episode 22:

- Tomoya and Nagisa are about to leave the house. Nagisa says not a word.
- Nagisa is blaming herself as heavily as I feared. What's impressive is that Tomoya doesn't go down with her. Like she's always been his support, he's determined to be hers.
- Six orbs.
- The culture festival begins. Everyone in the theater club notices Nagisa is acting strange, so Youhei tries to cheer her up with a charm, but flubs it. Tomoya says that since the performance isn't until afternoon, they should enjoy the morning events. Youhei needs to meet up with Mei (Mei!!) and Kyou calls a recess for the club until later.
- Nagisa is a fighter. She's depressed, no doubt, but she understands Tomoya's logic and know she can't runi what everyone else has worked for - it's not just for her anymore. She bounces back and they enjoy various festival games, though she never stops thinking about last night.
- Unfortunately she and Tomoya get separated. He runs into Sanae, who has come alone - Akio said he would follow later. Also, Sanae is there with Isogai... a real Isogai =P
- Nagisa finds her way to the reference room, Yukine's domain. She wanders over to the videos of plays of years past, and finds one her father participated in, one that won him an award. She sits down and watches as Tomoya finds her.
- Akio loved acting, loved it immensely, and stated in the video his desire to go pro and act forever. A dream that, in Nagisa's eyes, he was cheated of by his daughter. Tomoya tells her that Nagisa is Nagisa, and she should only concern herself with what she can do now.
- Second part.
- Finally it's time. The choir club finishes their performance and leaves the stage. The theater club prepares in the back (all in their stage crew blacks, ah, so nostalgic for me...) and cheer Nagisa on. But she still looks dead when she walks out on stage...
- The curtain raises, she stares at the crowd, freezes, and says nothing. She remembers everything Akio and Sanae wrote in the old days, she remembers the expression of love for acting. Then she begins to cry. As the crowd murmurs and the crew debate if they should lower the curtain, a voice cries out from the back of the auditorium.
- It's Akio, and it's fucking intense. He screams out at the top of his lungs, telling Nagisa that blaming herself is pointless. To hell with whatever their dreams were, what matters is what they are now. And right now Akio and Sanae's dream is standing right there on stage, frozen and crying. Right now their dream is to see Nagisa reach her dream, and if she pulls back from it now because they pulled back on theirs then, that doesn't revert everything to a harmonious equilibrium, just as two wrongs don't make a right. If she feels bad for what happened in the past, then this is her chance to apologize. Sanae chimes in as well. Tomoya runs down from the tech booth and tells her she has to achieve what he and Youhei could not.
- She wipes her tears, takes a few breaths, and begins the play. Halfway through it cuts to the girl and the robot, and soon after, they come out for their curtain call. The crowd cheers, and it goes perfectly.
- Tomoya and Nagisa talk afterwards (apparently she chose to sing "Dango Daikazoku", but got a lot of applause :sd: ), when someone arrives - Tomoya's father.
- Nagisa had invited him to see the play. What follows is remarkably subdued, but all the more effective because of it. Tomoyo's dad says the play was good, and then takes his leave. Tomoya quietly calls after him, "Try not to drink so much, okay?" This was far better than what I was expecting (some tearful and wholly unrealistic emotional mutual coming-to-terms). If Akio's scene displayed the effectiveness of raw emotional power, this exchange, like so many others in Clannad, illustrates that sometimes a few words can say just as much as many.
- Then Tomoya asks Nagisa if they can hang out tomorrow. He says he has something to say...

Snippets of the after party and the date the next day play, and they end the day in the theater club room. Nagisa sees the "Day Duty" notice Tomoya drew on the chalkboard, and goes and writes his name next to hers. She turns around and smiles, and Tomoya decides it's time to say it. (Trans sounds slightly awkward but I couldn't wait for the better version)

"Starting tomorrow morning... Do you think us being lovers would be interesting?"
"Eh?"
"Go out with me, Nagisa. I love you. That's why I always want you to be with me."

She doesn't need to respond with words because the beautiful look on her face says it all.

And so ends Clannad... until next week!

I have to say, Akio nearly stole this episode. If it weren't for the look on Nagisa's face at the very end, it'd be his. He was amazing.

I'm debating if I do my series-ending thoughts now or next week... I think I'll hold it off for now. It's one of those weird situations where I really want to let loose with everything I thought about it, but then there'll be another episode next Friday :sd:

I did jot down a "selection" ::cough:: of good scenes when I did my ep 1-21 rewatch over the past few days, so I do have some idea of what I'll post about, but... not just yet. It looks like 23 carries on pretty much without a pause, despite being called an extra episode.

What I hope to see, besides hopefully a kiss, is the *real* return of Fuuko. Though I don't know if they'll do it, that could eat up a lot of the episode. There's always the presumably DVD-only 24 though...

[Splitter]

Okay, KyoAni... what the hell? No, seriously, what the hell? You call THAT an ending? Lucky F***ing Star had a better ending! Usually when you have a climactic performance taking place on a stage, you shine and this time you let me down so hard. The only highlight was Akio talking some sense into Nagisa, but come ON! WHERE WAS THE BAWWWWWW! You're adapting a f***ing Key game! My eyes were dry beginning to end. You failed, KyoAni. You lost your magic touch.

I'd talk about how you ended that finale, but I'm still too enraged to think about that completely and utterly forced setup clearly.

[something]

Lucky F***ing Star had a better ending!
Lucky Star has a better ending than most shows, so that doesn't say much =P I do think there are things they could have done better in terms of timing and such (the final live action ED bit wasn't needed or wanted), but the ending episode as a whole was fantastic.

I'd talk about how you ended that finale, but I'm still too enraged to think about that completely and utterly forced setup clearly.
::blinks:: Weird. I wonder if this will be a common reaction? Not sure how it was forced. It wasn't super dramatic, sure, but I don't get the "forced" part.

It was a good episode. A very good episode. Was it blow me away and make me sob epic? I got teary eyed once or twice, but I didn't full out cry. This is still going to be a top 10 all time show for me though. Hell, My-freaking-HiME is a top 10 title, and I loathe the ending to that. Heck, even Kanon's last moments didn't truly blow me away, and that's also still a top 10.

At any rate, there's still 23. I thought 23 was going to be more of a side story in the sense of being somewhat disconnected from the rest of the story, but going off the preview it looks like it's pretty much just the next episode as if 22 weren't actually the "final" episode. (That said, I do expect it to end on a pretty lighthearted, everyone-gets-together-and-has-fun type moment.)

[relentlessflame]

Well, it very much has a "the end of part one" feel to it, as if there's still a lot more of the story left to tell. Which is, of course, true. I had some pretty serious doubts when this was orignally mentioned as a rumour a few months back, but now I'd agree with the rumour/suggestion that either an OVA series or a follow-up is being planned. The ending of the show wraps things up, sort of, but it's really more like "to be continued". So, we'll see.

[something]

Well, it very much has a "the end of part one" feel to it, as if there's still a lot more of the story left to tell. Which is, of course, true. I had some pretty serious doubts when this was orignally mentioned as a rumour a few months back, but now I'd agree with the rumour/suggestion that either an OVA series or a follow-up is being planned. The ending of the show wraps things up, sort of, but it's really more like "to be continued". So, we'll see.
Well, again, to be continued... in less than a week. Then we've heard it's supposed to be 24 episodes, so one should be on the DVD yet, though I thought someone said that was recap so it might be of no use.

I don't expect either to bring up huge plot revelations (at least not 24, doing that in a DVD-only episode is really shitty form) but I think there might be some good stuff in 23. 22 would have bothered me a lot if we didn't get the confession. Now that we have it, hopefully they do something with it in 23. If not, then oh well, Clannad wasn't perfect. I'll wait until after 23 to really decide though.

I don't think we'll see another cour, and I do think they went into this initially expecting more than 22 episodes of main story. Another 1-2 epsidoes of Nagisa and Tomoya could have been amazing. The ending was not perfect, and yes it could have been better. I acknowledge this.

But (or because of that?) it'd still be one of my all time favorite shows even if 22 were the end. No questions asked. Rewatching 1-21 in the days immediately before watching 22 really helped put everything in perspective, I think.

Clannad the anime is not, in the end, quite as ambitious in terms of the scope of the story as Air (I feel that few shows are) or Kanon '06 were. It's more down to earth, more about a tight knit group of people (a family) doing, oddly enough, normal things, Fuuko's supernatural story aside.

I won't set in stone its ranking relative the other two KeyAni shows yet. But preliminarily, I'd say it's pretty close to Kanon, which I like more than Air. For most of the run, I felt that Clannad was the superior show, but I'd probably give Kanon the edge in the last bits.

Ah, I'm getting into all the things I told myself I'd hold off on. No more! Until I see 23, I won't try to solidify Clannad's place in my mind yet. I thought I'd be pretty set after 22, but 23 looks like it'll be a bit more important than I had anticipated. I look forward to it greatly.

[relentlessflame]

Well, the reason for the rumour in the first place was based on the content of the game; unlike Air and Kanon, which animated the story to its very end, the Clannad adaptation left basically the entire ending section of the game undone, and from what I'm told it certainly couldn't fit in one or two episodes (it's a very lengthy ending). They could just leave that whole ending unanimated to encourage people to buy the recently re-released game, or who knows... Until now I figured that 24 episodes were it, but now I'm not sure.

I'm always inclined to believe the episode counts are intentional, because Kyoto Animation has always shown everything they've done to be very deliberately planned. With the way things are developed nowadays, it'd take months of lead time to switch gears "all of a sudden". So I don't know...

[hinode85]

You're adapting a f***ing Key game! My eyes were dry beginning to end. You failed, KyoAni. You lost your magic touch.

In Kyoto Animation's defense, Nagisa's School Life arc was never the sort of Key bawfest that Kanon/Air had. There was no way they could've made it as melodramatic as you were hoping for without massive plot changes that would anger the hardcore Key fans.

Now, finding this an anticlimatic ending point for the series is a fair enough criticism, and one I expect quite a few people to make. We'll just have to see if/when they announce a second season (I assume when for uh... reasons that are spoilerish).

[EmperorBrandon]

She doesn't need to respond with words because the beautiful look on her face says it all.

Ah, and what a beautiful, angelic face it was... I loved this episode, and certainly was not disappointed how it turned out. I think it keeps well with the spirit of the series.

[something]

She doesn't need to respond with words because the beautiful look on her face says it all.Ah, and what a beautiful, angelic face it was...
Something that cannot be stressed enough. KyoAni's penchant for wonderfully detailed facial expressions aside, her basic design just leaps out at me, grabs me by the heart and makes me its bitch. Every time we get a close-up of her (bonus points if she's blushing), I just die from happiness. She's beautiful.

[EmperorBrandon]

In Kyoto Animation's defense, Nagisa's School Life arc was never the sort of Key bawfest that Kanon/Air had. There was no way they could've made it as melodramatic as you were hoping for without massive plot changes that would anger the hardcore Key fans.

Which is one thing I like about the series. Frankly, I did like Air and Kanon, but Clannad's style of story is much more appealing to me. Perhaps I can understand why this would be a disappointment for someone who wanted another Kanon, but I'm glad that it is not.

[EmperorBrandon]

Something that cannot be stressed enough. KyoAni's penchant for wonderfully detailed facial expressions aside, her basic design just leaps out at me, grabs me by the heart and makes me its bitch. Every time we get a close-up of her (bonus points if she's blushing), I just die from happiness. She's beautiful.

Oh yes, certainly. You can really feel lots of love in that scene - Nagisa's love of course, but also the love the animators put in the show. :) I know there were some here wondering why the confession wasn't done sometime before the ending. I think I like how it was placed here, though, and especially how they linked back Tomoya writing Nagisa's name on the board.

[mk2000]

My eyes were dry beginning to end.

The episode was really good but the eye situation was the same over here. Definitely not anything like the waterworks I endured for Air TV and Kanon.

Having said, Clannad is completely different from Air and Kanon in that they basically did not finish out the story. After Story Spoilers!!Well, not too specific. I don't want Something to kill me but had they finished out After Story...I think I would have cried more than at the end of Air TV. I had avoided reading anything about Clannad and the game until after this episode and what I found out was...I get choked up just thinking about it. I'm pretty sure Kyoto was merciful and spared us from a Mortal Kombat type Fatality move :-( Although, I think the movie touches on this part of the story but I haven't seen it yet

I'll conclude that I now hold Nagisa only slightly below Mizusu and above Ayu in terms of my love factor :beat:

[William K]

Well...that was an interesting way to end the story. I did like the stage scene and Nagisa's dad stole the show there, but it does feel unfinished.

I haven't played the game but I've read the visual artbook which was spoilerish. Of course they couldn't put everything from a non-linear game into the anime but even certain parts shown in the OP have been left out....

And Fuuko is still in a coma...You know what would make a great ending? Since Tomoya and Nagisa helped with her sister's wedding, Fuuko makes her reappearance during Tomoya and Nagisa's wedding...While holding a starfish carving of course :)

[Splitter]

She doesn't need to respond with words because the beautiful look on her face says it all.Ah, and what a beautiful, angelic face it was...
Something that cannot be stressed enough. KyoAni's penchant for wonderfully detailed facial expressions aside, her basic design just leaps out at me, grabs me by the heart and makes me its bitch. Every time we get a close-up of her (bonus points if she's blushing), I just die from happiness. She's beautiful.

Despite all I said earlier about the finale, I have to agree that shot of Nagisa was just... wow.

Though because Mai Nakahara... I'd rather her be crying. When she cries in her roles, it pretty much invokes every sympathetic nerve in my being and I want nothing more than to reach through my monitor and hug the life out of whatever character she's playing.

If it was up to me, I'd force her to play moerific high-school girls with borderline depression forever.

[EmperorBrandon]

If it was up to me, I'd force her to play moerific high-school girls with borderline depression forever.


She's great with the moerific high-school girls, no doubt, but I like hearing Nakahara in all types of roles, even the meaner ones. :)

[Nosredna]

I was very disappointed with the first half of the episode, but pleased with the last half. For the most part it wrapped up how I expected and that ending scene between Nagisa and Tomoya was great. Of the three Key games animated, I think I enjoyed Clannad the most.

[HitokiriShadow]

Akio's speech was absolutely beautiful. It brought tears to my eyes. The whole scene was fantastic.

They chose an interesting place to end it, but I thought it was a great ending. But I still WANT MOAR. Sure, we get one more episode, but I want After Story so fucking much.

[HitokiriShadow]

In Kyoto Animation's defense, Nagisa's School Life arc was never the sort of Key bawfest that Kanon/Air had. There was no way they could've made it as melodramatic as you were hoping for without massive plot changes that would anger the hardcore Key fans.

Which is one thing I like about the series. Frankly, I did like Air and Kanon, but Clannad's style of story is much more appealing to me. Perhaps I can understand why this would be a disappointment for someone who wanted another Kanon, but I'm glad that it is not.

I didn't care for Air that much. It was okay. But I loved Kanon. And I love Clannad even more. Clannad was... not what I expected. I was expecting it to at least be like Kanon in that the story arcs would be very sad and go for drawing out tears. But while Fuuko's arc kind of did, and even that was bittersweet, the rest was... normal. And happy. Not what I was expecting from KeyAni.

But I loved it. They fixed the biggest problems with Kanon and Air, which was that the girls just disappeared after their arcs, regardless of what happened to them. Not here. The girls don't just show up here and there, then get their arc and subsequently disappear. No, they are involved in various degrees both before and after their arcs.

I don't have any major criticisms for Clannad, though I do wish the Kyou/Tomoyo portion had gotten another episode. I liked how their arcs were combined, but those episodes felt a bit rushed and I really just wanted them to have slightly longer in the (shared) spotlight.

So for me, Clannad > Kanon >>> Air.

[mk2000]

moerific high-school girls with borderline depression


I love that description! It's dead on. :notworthy:

[nin789]

I loved this series because its true that you never truly saw what happened to fuko-chan but she still showed up every once in a while to lighten things up and attempt to help people, but she would always make it worse.

[Suwako Moriya]

Decent episode over all and I guess it won't be long before I find out what she feels she has to apologize for.

[Suwako Moriya]

Ah it's good to see the lone girl scenes get a better connection to the story now. As for the revelation to Nagisa's past, one thing I like about is that it feels down to earth in some regards. Ah yes nice to see Fuko again. Plus it's nice the entire world knows about the destiny of Tomoya and Nagisa.

[Suwako Moriya]

The opening scene of the episode was kind of weird for me. Also the stretching scene made me pay too much attention to their chests. In any case poor Nagisa, her guilt trip is only going to get stronger now due to finding out things. Ah yes (as it seems to be the case) one more episode to go.

[Suwako Moriya]

This episode was simply beautiful. Thanks to Nagisa's father, Akio. Thanks to Nagisa going through with her play. Thanks to the confession scene. It came together better than I would have thought. I wonder what 23 will be like. All I need is a side series focused on Fuko Ibuki. Yeah I'm greedy.

[Suwako Moriya]

Perhaps I can understand why this would be a disappointment for someone who wanted another Kanon, but I'm glad that it is not.

I figure it this way. If I want another Kanon then I'll just re-watch Kanon. Which I obviously plan to do over time. Heck think of this way. Kanon and Air alone had a different feel from each other in some regards. So expecting Clannad to be (completely) like either one would have been silly if we looked at past history.

That being said in terms of comparing them. Right now Kanon remains my favorite. Don't get me wrong, Clannad is very good and does a few things better in part due to experience possibly. However for some reason I still like Kanon a bit better. Still there are two episodes of Clannad remaining.

[Suwako Moriya]

And Fuuko is still in a coma...You know what would make a great ending? Since Tomoya and Nagisa helped with her sister's wedding, Fuuko makes her reappearance during Tomoya and Nagisa's wedding...While holding a starfish carving of course :)

That would be an awesome scene. So awesome that it has to happen. So awesome that I'll end up crying if it doesn't happen. Still there needs to be Fuko Ibuki in at least some form.

[Suwako Moriya]

I haven't really tried out any of the Toei versions of Key titles yet.

I've watched Toei Kanon, but have yet to see Air. Still in terms of Clannad Movie. Since eventually people might want to discuss the movie, I have to wonder if it's good to discuss it here or better in a separate thread. I guess one issue will be the fact it's going to be awhile before people can see Clannad 24, but some have probably already watched the movie.

[something]

I've watched Toei Kanon, but have yet to see Air. Still in terms of Clannad Movie. Since eventually people might want to discuss the movie, I have to wonder if it's good to discuss it here or better in a separate thread. I guess one issue will be the fact it's going to be awhile before people can see Clannad 24, but some have probably already watched the movie.
Oddly enough, I don't have the slightest motivation to see the movie and probably won't bother at all. Toei just needs to give up on trying to do Key stuff.

[Suwako Moriya]

Toei just needs to give up on trying to do Key stuff.

Perhaps, but I figure it this way. Key seems to have a purpose for both Toei and Kyo-Ani. Kyo-Ani allows them to have an awesome TV series. Toei allows for a movie and an alternate telling from a different perspective. Come to think of it, I wonder. If they had to do it all over again, would they have made Kanon into a movie instead of a TV series?

[HitokiriShadow]

I've watched Toei Kanon, but have yet to see Air. Still in terms of Clannad Movie. Since eventually people might want to discuss the movie, I have to wonder if it's good to discuss it here or better in a separate thread. I guess one issue will be the fact it's going to be awhile before people can see Clannad 24, but some have probably already watched the movie.
Oddly enough, I don't have the slightest motivation to see the movie and probably won't bother at all. Toei just needs to give up on trying to do Key stuff.

I never had much interest in seeing the Clannad movie to begin with but what little I've heard about it indicates its pretty crappy. Here was a comment on a blog I read:

Actually, for a very very COMPRESSED adaptation, it was pretty good. Those who actually played the game, or watched the TV anime, though, will find it mediocre, as the movie adaptation takes many liberties with the events, as well as the characters’ personalities. In fact, many were written out of the story entirely, while others were reduced to very MINOR roles (like Kyou and Tomoyo) that didn’t even reflect how they were in the After Story.

So it sounds like they tried to cover both School Life and After Story. KyoAni could only cover Shool Life in 22 episodes. Covering that AND After Story (which, as we've heard repeatedly, is quite long) in a single movie is just a recipe for disaster.

I'd much rather not experience After Story in a horribly compressed and altered Toei movie. I'll wait and hope for KyoAni to continue it and if they don't, maybe I'll just read a synopsis in a few years.

[EmperorBrandon]

I'd much rather not experience After Story in a horribly compressed and altered Toei movie. I'll wait and hope for KyoAni to continue it and if they don't, maybe I'll just read a synopsis in a few years.

This is pretty much what I have in mind right now as well, though I plan on playing the game itself if a fan translation is ever finished.

[Ty]

I too am debating whether to watch the movie at the moment. I think I could without ruining anything more the Kyani adaptation may have to offer in the future. I'm curious to see the other angle on it, but I checked out the first 30 seconds of it and was badly put off by the character designs. Much moreso than the difference between the two different Air adaptations. Toei's radical dark to light transitions in their animation is just jarring and makes everything look grungy and ugly. I'm not a fan.

As for the series, I'm very happy with how it ended because it gave me what I wanted to see. Anything more we'll just have to wait and see what is delivered. There certainly is no shortage of loose ends hanging: who was being pushed in the wheelchair in the OP? How do things get resolved between Tomoya and his father? What happens to Fuko? It's not like Kyoto Animation to leave so many elements unfinished. I smell another cour for the fall or winter season. Right after Haruhi season 2 airs would be a good bet.

[HitokiriShadow]

I thought the person in the wheelchair was Tomoyo's little brother.

[Dagger]

There certainly is no shortage of loose ends hanging: who was being pushed in the wheelchair in the OP?
Wasn't that explained when Tomoyo talked about her family?

[Nosredna]

Actually I kind of want to see the movie now, just to see how it works out.

[Ty]

There certainly is no shortage of loose ends hanging: who was being pushed in the wheelchair in the OP?
Wasn't that explained when Tomoyo talked about her family?
That's what I would refer to as a cop-out. If it was important enough to put into the OP itself it implies it was going to be a major story element for her. It wasn't.

[Dagger]

There certainly is no shortage of loose ends hanging: who was being pushed in the wheelchair in the OP?
Wasn't that explained when Tomoyo talked about her family?
That's what I would refer to as a cop-out. If it was important enough to put into the OP itself it implies it was going to be a major story element for her. It wasn't.
Well, in that case, what would you say was a more important element of her story? That was her story, as far as the Clannad anime is concerned. It's not as if the OP really makes a big deal out of the wheelchair shot, anyway; I mean, it was sandwiched in with shots of her in her bear costume.

[Suwako Moriya]

Actually I kind of want to see the movie now, just to see how it works out.

I think the key to watching the movie would probably be the following. Treat it as a what if scenario focused on only one arc instead of several merged together. Kind of like say if a Kanon movie were mostly focused on Ayu and perhaps a bit of Nayuki. On a side note I am actually re-watching the Toei version of Kanon. Yeah I'm that crazy.

That being said timing may be the key if one watched the movie and Kyo-Ani ends up animating the After Story, they'll have to be careful about what they say. However then again since the movie is an alternate version and will clearly be different. It may not matter too much.

Still in addition to more Clannad, I would like to see Kyo-Ani take on other Key series too and of course I guess let Toei have the movie versions to keep them distracted.

[something]

That's what I would refer to as a cop-out. If it was important enough to put into the OP itself it implies it was going to be a major story element for her. It wasn't.
Now that's a massively silly thing to say. It's an extremely important part of her backstory, a defining event in who and what she is and what motivates her to do everything we see her do in the entire series. It's more important than anything else that made it into her little OP bit.

[Ty]

*sigh* You've misunderstood me. I agree it is everything you have said. I think the show failed to give the proper time and weight to the event in animated form. This is what I was referring.

[Nosredna]

I think the key to watching the movie would probably be the following. Treat it as a what if scenario focused on only one arc instead of several merged together. Kind of like say if a Kanon movie were mostly focused on Ayu and perhaps a bit of Nayuki. On a side note I am actually re-watching the Toei version of Kanon. Yeah I'm that crazy.

That being said timing may be the key if one watched the movie and Kyo-Ani ends up animating the After Story, they'll have to be careful about what they say. However then again since the movie is an alternate version and will clearly be different. It may not matter too much.

That's a pretty good idea. I'll probably wait until "all" of Kyo-Ani has been released before I check out Toei's movie.

[William K]

If they had decided that Tomoyo be the 'winning' girl, then her family would have had more screen time like Nagisa's did...

I do wish they would do a Tomoyo After OVA set in some alternate universe though :)

[Splitter]

I think the key to watching the movie would probably be the following. Treat it as a what if scenario focused on only one arc instead of several merged together. Kind of like say if a Kanon movie were mostly focused on Ayu and perhaps a bit of Nayuki. On a side note I am actually re-watching the Toei version of Kanon. Yeah I'm that crazy.

That being said timing may be the key if one watched the movie and Kyo-Ani ends up animating the After Story, they'll have to be careful about what they say. However then again since the movie is an alternate version and will clearly be different. It may not matter too much.

That's a pretty good idea. I'll probably wait until "all" of Kyo-Ani has been released before I check out Toei's movie.

Here's hoping the extra episode ends with news of a second season in the works...

[Westlo]

As expected After story on the way.

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/moonphase/

I can always hope for Tomoyo After to be done later on.

[something]

As expected After story on the way. http://d.hatena.ne.jp/moonphase/
Fucking wonderful news! I don't think I'd say "expected" though. Demanded and fervently hoped for yes, but I never expect anything. :sd: TVA indicates it's another TV series of at least one full cour?

And its still KyoAni right? If not, I'm decidedly less interested. From what I can gather, the first line "スタッフã€�ã‚*ャストã�¯å¤‰ã‚�らã�šã€‚" says "Staff, cast to be changed" or something, though what that means we can only guess...

Someone needs to get us more info on this ASAP.

[Westlo]

I got that off the ANN thread, the suki new anime thread says

CLANNAD game will be getting another TV anime adaptation titled:

CLANNAD AFTER STORY

Cast and staff doesn't change.

Source: MoonPhase

DVD sales were good, I thought that After Story was always coming it was just a matter of when. I'm slightly annoyed that I will have to wait longer for another FMP series but I can bear it for Clannad. LIttle Busters otoh....

[something]

"Cast and staff doesn't change."
Ok, so it was just a matter of the -razu ending being negation apparently. Yay!

DVD sales were good, I thought that After Story was always coming it was just a matter of when. I'm slightly annoyed that I will have to wait longer for another FMP series but I can bear it for Clannad. LIttle Busters otoh....
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if shows I liked had good DVD sales but never got a sequel before. Again, given how busy KyoAni is and how many of their shows sell well and how many deserve sequels and how they only do one at a time... I just cannot assume anything.

But that's moot now~ <3

[Pastachan]

I'm glad for the continuation, but my only problem is that I would like to know when all these series are coming out. (After Story, Haruhi, FMP!...) Oh, the suspense. ;_;

[Suwako Moriya]

As expected After story on the way.

Now this is a cause for celebration as it leads to definite good news. I wonder how long the After Story will be. I guess we'll find out eventually.

[Nosredna]

Cool. Guess I won't be watching Toei movie anytime soon.

[Draneor]

DVD sales were good, I thought that After Story was always coming it was just a matter of when. I'm slightly annoyed that I will have to wait longer for another FMP series but I can bear it for Clannad. LIttle Busters otoh....

Woo-hoo! I now get to spend an entire year buying Clannad R2s! I'm very happy the rumours on 2ch turned out to be true. I should buy some more dango or anpan to celebrate.

[Westlo]

I'm rather glad I avoided watching the movie, guess I'll check it out after I finish After Story.

[mk2000]

I can't believe I read spoilers for After Story :grr:

[Westlo]

I always thought that there was a high chance of After Story being done so I didn't read the spoilers, Tomoyo After otoh... want this animated one day...

[Shiroi Hane]

We really need Kyoani to clone themselves what with more Clannad, Haruhi and FMP to be animated. Although, since I'm already paying for two sets of Kyoani DVDs simultaneously even at their current level of output (Clannad, and Lucky Star which is still ongoing) such impatience is probably not healthy for my wallet anyway.

[EmperorBrandon]

Awesome, awesome news. I'm really glad we have even more Clannad to look forward to. I hope more Haruhi and Clannad comes before more FMP (which I haven't been that interested), but that's just me.

[Suwako Moriya]

I hope more Haruhi and Clannad comes before more FMP (which I haven't been that interested), but that's just me.

It's not just you, I lost interest in FMP long ago. However more Haruhi and Clannad will be a good thing.

[angelx03]

DVD sales were good, I thought that After Story was always coming it was just a matter of when. I'm slightly annoyed that I will have to wait longer for another FMP series but I can bear it for Clannad. LIttle Busters otoh....

But, but, Planetarian needs to be animated! :susel:

[something]

Awesome, awesome news. I'm really glad we have even more Clannad to look forward to. I hope more Haruhi and Clannad comes before more FMP (which I haven't been that interested), but that's just me.
I want them all, plus Little Busters and Planetarian, and more Lucky Star, and of course more new properties because everything KyoAni touches is immediately GOLD.

[Suwako Moriya]

because everything KyoAni touches is immediately GOLD.

*Imagines KyoAni making a property in a genre that something dislikes* I wonder what would happen then. Okay in all seriousness, I have definite confidence in them. Which is the main thing that matters. More Lucky Star is definitely needed.

[The Great Bear]

because everything KyoAni touches is immediately GOLD.*Imagines KyoAni making a property in a genre that something dislikes* I wonder what would happen then.

They'd have to make a yaoi series to do that =P

…

Seriously, more Clannad is a good thing.

[EmperorBrandon]

For a new title, Kyoto Animation needs to do a magical girl series. :)

[Suwako Moriya]

For a new title, Kyoto Animation needs to do a magical girl series. :)

The question is which one?

[something]

For a new title, Kyoto Animation needs to do a magical girl series. :)
So does SHAFT. In fact, SHAFT x KyoAni mahou shoujo seri--::WORLDIMPLODES::

[Suwako Moriya]

So does SHAFT. In fact, SHAFT x KyoAni mahou shoujo seri--::WORLDIMPLODES::

I wonder what it would be like having those two work on the same series.

[something]

I wonder what it would be like having those two work on the same series.
Really, really fucking weird. In fact, though I love love love them both dearly, I don't think the result would make any sense at all. :sd:

[angelx03]

For a new title, Kyoto Animation needs to do a yuri magical catgirl series. :)

Fixed? :grin:

[EmperorBrandon]

Really, really fucking weird. In fact, though I love love love them both dearly, I don't think the result would make any sense at all. :sd:

Yeah, better to leave them to their own devices. I have more of a mixed opinion of Shaft, but it is mainly good.

[EmperorBrandon]

For a new title, Kyoto Animation needs to do a magical girl series. :)

The question is which one?

Err... I don't know. Let KyoAni pick - I'm sure they will find the right one. :D

[stfram]

*Imagines KyoAni making a property in a genre that something dislikes*


Hmm...

"MD Geist TV Series." :)

[Ty]

It was a reasonably safe bet, but it's nice to hear confirmation. My thanks to Kyoto Animation for successfully elevating my mood from miserable all the way to melancholy with this news.

[stfram]

Fucking wonderful news! I don't think I'd say "expected" though. Demanded and fervently hoped for yes, but I never expect anything. :sd: TVA indicates it's another TV series of at least one full cour?


I also hoped beyond hope that a second season was en route. I'd like to say I was confident of it happening, but the...abrupt end to the now first season of Clannad kind of knocked me around a bit.

Now that we know there's a second season (and that original blog post here indicating that 22 wuold be a good stopping point), things start to make sense.

It's also wonderful that the original creative team is intact for the sequel.

Now we've got at least one episode of awesome fluff to unwind with, and the upcoming "OVA" as well.

Good times!

Hopefully questions that will be answered soon:
1. Before or after Haruhi (betting on after...)
2. Full season or half?

[stfram]

My thanks to Kyoto Animation for successfully elevating my mood from miserable all the way to melancholy with this news.


You need to make yourself a nice "Nagisa smiling" wallpaper for your Zune.

It'll cheer you up just by looking at it.

[Draneor]

In other news, my stuffed Botan arrived today. He'll go next next to my Piyo. I'll regret until my last breath that I was never able to track down a Potato.

[stfram]

In other news, my stuffed Botan arrived today. He'll go next next to my Piyo. I'll regret until my last breath that I was never able to track down a Potato.


At least stuffed Potato's exist...

http://www.animemate.com/proddetail.php?prod=air20

Out of stock there, but one may come bounding your way someday.

[something]

There's already a subbed (well it's like 3 lines of text) promo for this out? Just how soon are we getting it? Then again a short thing like that wouldn't have put long to put together.

And this announcement sort of preempts a couple of the very, very few complaints I had. One was that the young girl in the OP wound up getting absolutely positively no mention whatsoever in any part of the story... but with After Story coming out, no doubt we'll get her.

Stupid KyoAni, making it so hard for me to ever find any faults. Stop being perfect.

[angelx03]

Stupid KyoAni, making it so hard for me to ever find any faults. Stop being perfect.

Try watching Munto? :crazy:

[Dagger]

Stupid KyoAni, making it so hard for me to ever find any faults. Stop being perfect.

Try watching Munto? :crazy:

Incomplete, but still fun and sweet. Not to mention stunningly gorgeous. I wouldn't call it a blow against them. :neko:

[something]

Try watching Munto? :crazy:
Heh, I saw the first Munto. It was good, but as with all anime movies hampered by its extreme short length. I have Munto II but never got around to watching it.

Those were KyoAni's first ever projects though, so any lack of perfection is okay.

[EmperorBrandon]

I am curious to check out Munto at some point. It's one of the few full KyoAni productions that I have not seen yet (only other one would be Full Metal Panic TSR).

[Suwako Moriya]

There's already a subbed (well it's like 3 lines of text) promo for this out?

*Watches* All I will say is she looks cute and I'll remain curious about this continuation.

[HitokiriShadow]

I just saw the news on ANN. Hells yes. Even if we don't have a date (it won't be till fall at the absolute earliest and that's if the new Haruhi series is only one cour) it means we won't be left just hoping for months.

[mk2000]

Just watched the promo and it looks bad ass! This will be the final piece to take this series into F'ing Epic Proportions!

[Westlo]

There's already a subbed (well it's like 3 lines of text) promo for this out? Just how soon are we getting it? Then again a short thing like that wouldn't have put long to put together.

IIRC didn't they show a Clannad promo after Kanon 2006? So I'm guessing at this stage that Haruhi 2 will be a one cour show set to air in Summer 08 and that Clannad After Story will be either a one or two cour show (Someone who knows the story will probably have a better idea of the length required) to air in Fall 08.

[Draneor]

IIRC didn't they show a Clannad promo after Kanon 2006? So I'm guessing at this stage that Haruhi 2 will be a one cour show set to air in Summer 08 and that Clannad After Story will be either a one or two cour show (Someone who knows the story will probably have a better idea of the length required) to air in Fall 08.

If you bought all of Kanon, you could mail away for the Clannad promo DVD. I think you were supposed to get a keychain too, but I only got the DVD myself.

[Shiroi Hane]

Here's the Invitation stuff (http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/shirobane/Stuff11102007/photo#5120160359529816674)

[William K]

Mei is back since it's the summer holidays! Lots of Mei in this episode :)

And the "Tomoya misunderstanding Mei" scene is the funniest in a long while...

[EmperorBrandon]

Heh, I rather like the extra episode. The good thing about is lots more of Mei, since she wasn't too prominent in her appearance in the main series. Here she's a pretty fun character, though. I like her playing as the love cupid, especially when Tomoya misunderstands her twice. :P Nagisa is cute as ever, and nice that we get to hear her saying "Tomoya-kun" some. Fuuko is absent from this episode, but it seems there was an indirect mention of her here.

I still have the wonder if the rumored 24th OVA episode of Clannad is actually planned. After Story seems to be the next thing anyway, so I guess I shouldn't care much at this point. I'm definitely looking forward to it.

[something]

Episode 23:

- Summertime, and supplementary classes. Tomoya wants to ditch but Nagisa refuses, saying she's worried about him since... well... they're... =D
- Blushing ensues and he asks if they can hold hands. "But someone might see us!" And someone does. Kyou Kyockblocks again. There's no malice behind it or anything, but I'm keeping a wary eye on her. Is she really okay with this? Or does part of her still long for another chance? Here's hoping there isn't an ugly side to her feelings. I have faith that she's better than that though.
- The third years have to waste most of their summer break in extra classes, as mentioned. But that means it's been some time since Nagisa and Tomoya started dating. Exams are over, summer has begun... and just like you'd expect from them, they've not yet held hands (though Kyou shares some blame there!)
- Youhei is lamenting how lame Tomoya is when a guest arrives for him. Mei! After cleaning up Youhei's place again, she goes with Tomoya to Nagisa's house, where they'll spend the night.
- Next day they get up and with no classes today, Nagisa decides to help out in the store, so Akio and Sanae can take some time off. Sanae comes down with new bread, which Mei is happy to try... until she gets a mouthful. But she's a smart girl. Without breaking verbal stride, she says "They looked very delicious!" which Sanae totally falls for. Nagisa and Tomoya take notes because that seems like a good way to get out of lying.
- Despite having very little screentime, Mei might be a top 5 character for me. A customer comes by and she turns on a dime, offers her a tray and welcomes her to the story. She's so awesomely on top of things.
- She then goes outside to "call customers in". A couple people stop by, never actually realizing the place was a bakery. It's mostly young guys, mostly blushing when they see the adorable Nagisa. Suddenly it clicks, and Tomoya rushes out to ask Mei what she's telling people. "We've got cute girls!" ...Well, it's certainly not false advertising.
- By the end of the day they've scored their highest single day sales ever. You think Akio would have thought to cast Nagisa in the kanban musume role long ago. Mei continues her streak of awesomeness by telling Tomoya he should tell Nagsia he loves her, mimicking him saying it :sd:
- Later Tomoya is at Youhei's place again, with the latter being all depressed and lonely that Mei isn't around. So when she knocks on the door, says she needs to talk to Tomoya and asks Youhei to leave the room, he's reduced to tears :sd:
- She's decided to become the cupid of love! Tomoya, of course, twists this in his mind into Youhei-Mei incest... O_O It's... fucking brilliant. About as good as the best Tomoya comedy moments thus far. "Do you look up to me somewhat now?" "Not like that... in a more... naughty way."
- Then it turns into Tomoya-Youhei... :sd:
- "Waah! Speak of the devil! What a coincidence!" Yeah, Mei is totally one of my favorite characters.
- After setting things up so that Nagisa and Tomoya are alone, she scurries away. Nagisa reads very, very obviously from a mental script Mei prepared for her, even calling Tomoya "Tomoya-kun".
- More hilarity ensues. I give points to Nagisa for trying to carry out the plan, but it goes about as well as you'd expect. My love for Nagisa and Mei cannot be contained by the bounds of the timespace dimensions this universe tries to impose on them.
- Tomoya plays along, though in Tomoya fashion he makes sure nagisa squirms a bit before getting his cooperation.

And it ends beauuuuutifully.

That was like 50 times better than I could have hoped it would be. And I was able to watch it in a completely different mindset, knowing After Story is coming.

Nagisa, Tomoya, everything between you has just begun.

I'll be posting series thoughts whenever I get the post done.

[something]

I still have the wonder if the rumored 24th OVA episode of Clannad is actually planned.
If it's a DVD-only recap episode like I initially thought I heard, it definitely could still be coming, I'd think.

[HitokiriShadow]

Mei is awesome. I loved how she got out of the bread question. It's a crying shame she played such a small role in the main story and I hope she plays a bigger role in After Story.

Also, Nagisa continues to be absolutely adorable as she tries to follow Mei's little plan.

[something]

The 1-21 Rewatch

So, after I watched episode 21 I was a mix of anxious, excited, happy, frustrated, and worried. The news that the show was ending the main story at 22 caught me completely off guard and had me fearing they might not be able to do what they needed to do to properly end a show this damn good. Before 21 aired it had already solidified a spot in my top 10, though whether we were talking 3,4,5 or 9,10 was the big question.

So I marathoned episodes 1-21 in anticipation of 22. I wanted to watch the ending in its context, with everything before that point fresh in my mind. Since I knew I'd be doing end of series thoughts, I figured I'd mention a smattering of noteworthy scenes... with Special Dango Awards for the best of them all. Looking over this, it looks like there were a lot of the best scenes near the end, and a bunch of short one-off humor scenes in the first half, when more time was spent on comedy. That and I got lazy at the end and started typing less.

Oh and this also gave me an excuse to watch nearly the whole show in widescreen.

Special Dango Award #01 - A sudden burst of colors, and a long, long uphill climb. The most beautiful opening scene (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_01.png) I have ever watched, with an equally beautiful song.
Meet Tomoyo (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_Enter_Tomoyo.png)...
Okazaki Tomoya ~Eternal (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_Okazaki_Tomoya_Eternal.png)~!
"EVERYONE, LISTEN! FUJIBAYASHI KYOU IN CLASS E IS BI!"
Dango, dango, dango, dango, dango daikazoku... dekimashita!
Dribble... SHOOT! High five!
"You might be an idiot, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that."
"The world ended a hundred years ago. I'm actually a cyborg."
Nagisa suddenly being able to explain why she wants to start up the theater club again, when she's not even trying.
Tomoyo's breasts are detachable!
Fuuko is surrounded by weird people! "You're a person with weird hair! You're a person whose very existence is weird!"
Special Dango Award #02 - Ryou and Nagisa on the roof (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_02.png) . She said "Yes", damnit! And possibly my favorite single cap from the series.
Chain combo!
Kotomi's knees~~
Wonderful romantic awkwardness when Nagisa and Tomoya first meet with Kouko.
Special Dango Award #03 - Mastered (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_03.png): "Switching the person she's talking to"
Fuuko, everyone around you is your classmate... and your friend.
I'd eat Sanae's starfish bread ;_;
Final Hitode Tsukai FUUKO!
Mastered: "Shooting juice up the nose!"
Every Fuuko "saiyaku desu!" makes me happy.
"We're almost like Fuu-chan's mother and father," yet another adorable verbal slip that gets Nagisa and Tomoya blushing furiously.
Nagisa's crying (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_Nagisa_Crying.png) voice when they invite Kouko to the Founder's Festival XD
No, she said only vaguely horrible!
Mastered: "Leaving her in a different place!" - and it gets us Fuuko, Ryou, Kyou and Nagisa in waitress costumes!
Special Dango Award #04 - The entire ending sequence to episode six, from Mitsui's (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_04a.png) acceptance of the starfish to the heartbreak (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_04b.png) at the end. And the beautiful music once again pulls it all together. Every time Mitsue says "Sore ja... gambatte kudasai ne," and bows her head to Fuuko, I just lose it. I teared up again and this was my ~5th time through the episode. [Note: and more like ~25th through this scene by the time I get this post made]
When Fuuko meets �-�-� and we get our first "Ijimekko?". Such a shame they couldn't spend more time together.
Dango vs Hitode! Epic battle (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_Dango_vs_Starfish.png) raging across the millenia!
Mastered: "Switching the sculpture in hand" - Tomoya became the Fuuko master! And Youhei's face (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/8b46d7fbb9e83e8cbcff0eca6f11c9c6.gif) becomes a starfish punching bag.
Special Dango Award #05 - Everyone begins to forget, their efforts start to unravel. Youhei (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_05a.png), Kyou/Ryou (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_05b.png), Akio (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_05c.png) and even Sanae (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_05d.png) start to forget. Sanae's tears were especially powerful. Consider this dango a mega-dango for the whole remainder of her arc, and (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_05hug1.png) every time (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_05hug2.png) Nagisa hugs (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_05hug3.png) Fuuko tightly (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_05hug4.png). | Fuuko asks Nagisa and Tomoya to refer to each other by given names; gives them each a kiss on the cheek; and they fall asleep huddled together. | Nagisa remembers, Tomoya follows, and all of a sudden, there's Fuuko between them. There, all along, sticking by their side even though they forgot. | The wedding. Goodbye, Fuuko-chan ;_; End mega-dango.
Nagisa and Kotomi meet, and get along splendidly.
"Hello. Nice to meet you. I'm Ichinose Kotomi from third year Class A. My hobby is reading books. I would be happy if you would become my friend."
The birth of the Three Moe Stooges! ...Moe Moe and Moe?
Bonjour? ...Bo-n-jo-uuu-r? [damn photobucket 1MB limit not letting me upload the gifs I wanted to...]
Kotomi summons dark elder gods while Tomoya imagines mahou shoujo (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_Mahou_Shoujo_Kyou.png) Kyou-chan!
Kotomi at the window (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_Kotomi_Window.png), for her first rabbit/deer/you line.
Tomoya's fucked up dream.
The recital from hell! My only regret is that we never get to hear Kotomi playing well, as she's apparently capable of.
Special Dango Award #06 - Everyone leaping to Kotomi's defense (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_06.png) against the "bad man". It's a short scene, but it speaks volumes to what Clannad is really all about. And Nagisa tries to tackle a man without about a foot and a half on her. I absolutely love it.
Suddenly, Fuuko! The first time we saw her return.
Ryou avoids a bus crash, but it triggers Kotomi's memories and a terrifying scream.
And the backstory on Kotomi comes out. Poor little orphan Kotomi...
Just as Tomoya begins to fear his landscaping is all going to be in vain, Nagisa, Ryou and Kyou return and give him help, and renewed determination.
Special Dango Award #07 - "Otou-san, Okaa-san, okaerinasai (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_07.png)." ;_;
Youhei's anger (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_Youheis_Anger.png) at the Choir Club member who sends Nagisa a threatening note, and all the parts of his role in the Koumura battle. They make him a much more interesting male secondary characters than most other shows ever get.
Youhei is gay (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_Nagisa_DAISHOKKU.png)! "You can't have him because... Okazaki-san is my boyfriend!" XD And then poor Mei gets caught up in it...
Tomoyo vs. Kyou, and Tomoyo scores a knockout (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_Kyou_KO.png) blow.
Special Dango Award #08 - "Okazaki-san, SHOOT!" What needs to be said that I haven't said before? Absolutely brilliant, and beautiful (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_08.png). And yet again the music gives me chills.
Tomoyo's completely nonchalant reaction to finding porn in Youhei's room sums up her character so well.
"If you beg, I'll let you touch me."
Special Dango Award #09 - The gym equipment shed scene. This needs no explanation... Only pictures. Or in this case [relatively SFW] fanart! (1) (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/f73d5ddeb728fd29fa3e4c7381288165.jpg) (2) (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/65008ed7b24a08955e5b9c562900d146.jpg) (3) (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/e71b8aa21aa9bd5ece0dd77a652c3edc.jpg) (4) (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/421b1d95f714ebf4285d137a7cb7fb77.jpg) (5) (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/379efd842e924ee7e9cba7f96f600b25.jpg). Though we could have gotten an ill-timed Fuuko, sanjou (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/fc46bfd59bd2e255b99e3228e418cb05.jpg)! On the other hand, if the charm to escape the situation didn't work... (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/e445244afb26167ed977855f996fbb96.jpg)
Speaking of Fuuko, sanjou, Tomoya gets assaulted by everyone's food.
Tomoyo learns the secret to pitching a no hitter - aim for Youhei's face!
Tomoyo sums up the core of Clannad: "The 'family' I'm talking about doesn't have to be a real family. It can even be friends. What it takes is a group that's like a family."
Special Dango Award #10 - The tennis match, and the subtle but effective way the question of who Tomoya loves (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_10a.png) comes to a close. Utterly brilliant... and devastating (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_10b.png) to the Fujibayashis. Also quite effective is Tomoyo's reaction - wistful, accepting, bittersweet. Just goes to show nobody, absolutely nobody, can hate Nagisa. Even if she's your rival in love.
Stern Nagisa bringing Tomoya back when the teacher calls. "You can't trust my words?" "RIGHT." "Without a moment of hesitation..."
Special Dango Award #11 - Tomoya's stay at the Furukawa (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_11.png) house teaches him once again just how special this "normal (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_11b.png)" family is.
Youhei's story... with sound effects!
ZOMBIE FUUKO!
"Your indecisive attitude is trapping Nagisa" - Youhei breaks the situation down perfectly, in perhaps his most flattering moment. He told Tomoya precisely what Tomoya was afraid to tell himself.
Special Dango Award #12 - "Good one Nagisa (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_12a.png)!" "Yes!" "Start running, Nagisa!" <3^infinity (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_dango_award_12b.png)
Vocalization exercises! bugubugubagubugu!
"As I'd thought, you are a good girl. I'm glad it was you."
Dango daikazoku instrumental plays over a collage of culture fest scenes; Tomoya remarks what an amazing girl Nagisa has become.
And Nagisa finds what she should not have found, exactly when she should not have found it....

There it stops, because it was done for 1-21. and in the process of getting a few more screencaps and linking the ones I'd already taken, I think I just watched a good 20% of the series all over again. :sd: In 22 and 23, Special Dango Awards would go to: Akio's hot blooded exhortations; Nagisa's face after the confession; and I'm not sure I can narrow Mei's role in 23 down to one representative scene, but every second she was in that episode deserved a big yummy Dango.

Oh, and I had to cap this (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_Haiiiii.png) from 23 because I absolutely adore when her hair does that. Speaking of hair, we need to get Tomoya some antennae (http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t299/anon09876/Clannad_Antennae.png) or he just won't fit in!

--------------

Problems (or lack thereof)

I was originally going to address the very few overall problems Clannad had, but then KyoAni went and confirmed After Story and rendered most of it moot. I was going to complain that the girl in the OP wound up playing absolutely positively no role whatsoever in the entire story. Maaaaaajor oversight. Then they release a short After Story promo and sure enough, she'll be in it. Complaint thwarted!

Ditto on wishing they'd had time to address the outcome of Fuuko's body. Even 23 didn't touch that subject. But now... there's plenty of time to do so. I can't be sure they will so this complaint may still stand when all is said and done, but well see. See when it's animated. I don't want any of you bastards telling me ahead of time!

I was also going to question two interrelated things: the series length and the very last minute confession. They go more or less hand-in-hand, and it seemed that this only being 22 episodes of main story would be a problem. But then an unexpectedly good 23 and the previously mentioned After Story come by and blow those complaints out of the water. As I said in my 23 post, the last minute confession is now a moot point because that wasn't the last minute! It's all just begun, and we're going to get at least 12 more episodes (two cour would be downright amazing...) to see them explore life beyond high school.

One complaint that does stand is that despite having gorgeous, moving, appropriate background music, there were two important vocal track choices that I could have done without. I'm always a bit iffy on using vocal tracks to highlight tense, emotional or dramatic moments in a show. Sometimes it works perfectly (Heroic Age, final scene) but sometimes the music doesn't jive with the events for me. That's sorta how I felt about the insert songs for episode 9 (Kouko's wedding) and 22 (Tomoya's confession). The latter did make my heart skip a beat or three at the end, when it slows down to a drumbeat as bits of the opening scene of the show flit past, and then fades out to the image of their names "on duty" next to each other on the chalkboard. But for the rest of the song, I wanted them to just stick with something instrumental. Same thing for the engrishy lyrics in ep 9. I'll take yet another dango remix or other instrumental track any day, they're always amazing. Hell, I just got overwhelmed for a second while typing this, because in my other monitor, Kyou, Ryou, Youhei and Nagisa just looked at the starfish Youhei was holding and went "Yup, 'that' ...::in unison:: starfish!" Then the music kicks up a notch and we see Fuuko... <3

Oh, and for an example of a vocal track I really liked, the episode 18 isnert song (tennis scene) worked extremely well.

---------------

Music (cont'd) and Animation

Speaking of music, all three KeyAni adaptations have had great theme songs generally. Nothing can top the sheer epic weight of Tori no Uta (AIR OP), but in terms of EDs, Dango Daikazoku's quirkiness puts it at least equal to Farewell Song (AIR ED). I was never big on Kaze no Tadori Tsuki Basho (Kanon ED) because I felt like it came in too abruptly after the end of an episode, and since it's so upbeat that was a problem in later, more subdued and sad, episodes. As for Megumeru ~Cuckool Mix 2007~ vs Last Regrets (Kanon OP), it's a very tough call. I will say, though, that even in my 21 episode marathon I watched the Clannad OP every single time, without fail. And I did the same each week a new episode came out. I can't bring myself to skip that OP.

I think I praised the wonderful background music enough already, if that's possible.

The animation almost doesn't need anything said either. It's Kyoto Animation, what do you expect? The only answer is "drop dead gorgeous" and that they delivered, easily. One of Kyoto Animation's trademark strengths has always been facial expressions, and as a bunch of the caps I took show, Clannad has few equals in that category. Nagisa's face in particular is a work of art in some scenes. Oddly enough, I liked a lot of the expressions Youhei made as well. Kyou too. There's so much detail in movement (mouth, eyes, hair shifting around the face, blushing) that I've found myself watching and rewinding and rewatching certain facial expressions over and over and over. Mostly Nagisa, but also Kyou's explosive blushing when Tomoyo asks her if she likes Tomoya, and so on.

-----------------

Character Thoughts

Again, I don't want to hear anything from the game that has not been animated yet. Not. A. Thing. Not even unanimated School Life arc events, because who knows what thus far unanimated tidbits they'll flash back to and make important in After Story?

Now for the important stuff. If I had to pick a favorite character it would be, without hesitation, Furukawa Nagisa. There are few characters I've felt this strongly about or cared for so intensely. The best thing about Nagisa is not just that she's cute and hard working because a lot of character are that, but because she displays some of the most obvious and satisfying development as a person I've yet seen in any series. Nagisa at the start of the show is hesitant, timid, shy. By the end, she's standing on a stage in front of hundreds of her fellow students, acting the solo role in a play. And she doesn't just jump from one stage to the other. She earns it, every step of the way. Nor does she become a completely different person in what and who she values - she remains true to herself while improving herself and everyone around her.

But she does it with help from her friends, above all Okazaki Tomoya. Just like Nagisa questions her own worth early on, Tomoya questions his in less obvious ways. Tough on the exterior, he still sees himself as someone who will never get in a serious relationship once the other person finds out what kind of person he is, and how his family situation has deteriorated. He's a delinquent, and no cute, polite, diligent girl will ever love someone like him.

And just like he brings out the best in Nagisa with his stinging but well-intentioned words, gives her confidence and pushes her to find her dreams, she returns the favor in her own ways. While she's reserved around him at first, her growing confidence lets her take charge when necessary, exemplified by her refusal to let him escape from the teacher who wanted to do the home visit. But even more poignantly it's shown in the confidence she had to invite him to stay over her house afterwards. He suddenly found himself in the position of needing to lean on her, follow her rules, adjust to her pace. It freaked him out a little and he began to erect emotional walls again, but thankfully someone was there to tell it to him straight and set him back on track...

And that was his best friend, Sunohara Youhei. Perhaps the greatest "male lead character's best male friend" in anime. Usually a guy in that role is a gag character, there to joke on the lead and slobber over the ladies. That sounds like a good description of Youhei at first, and he definitely was a gag character to start off, but I'm still amazed at how much more depth he took on when he became more than just Tomoyo's punching bag. His humorous "onii-chan" relationship with Mei was really sweet, and the seriousness with which he approached the basketball idea really won me over.

It also leaves me wondering about his feelings for Nagisa. He describes it (standard caveat, the translation could be wrong) in 23 as "platonic love" but I definitely take that with a grain of salt. There's no doubt he started out caring only about the bread, but nobody can claim that's anywhere on his mind by the end. He maintains a joking relationship with Nagisa, constantly declaring his love for her and "confessing" his feelings, only to be humorously shot down. And no doubt a large part of it is to egg Tomoya on and get under his skin. But it's the persistence with which he keeps this up that leaves me thinking that there's more there. Despite himself, that "boring, diligent" girl has had a definite impact on him.

But the girl that really showed the audience that he was more than another gag character was Ibuki Fuuko. The moment that Youhei really became something more for me was when two of Sunohara's classmates ignored the by then fading Fuuko, and he chewed them out over it. Afterwards, distressed, he investigated her, and visited the hospital. This wasn't the Youhei I expected, but it's the Youhei I came to greatly enjoy. And it's fitting that Fuuko should be the one to get him involved, because she got everyone involved through sheer force of will. Day after day, douzo after douzo, she never gave up.

Fuuko's a bit of a mystery, a supernatural girl in a remarkably down to earth show. Nobody else in the show is in a remotely similar situation, so it's hard at first to say where she stands in relation to the show as a whole. But look again and it's obvious: she brings people together. First and foremost, and quite deliberately on her part, she was the primary catalyst that threw Nagisa and Tomoya together and accelerated their relationship. She knew she had limited time, and if she accomplished nothing else beyond getting people to her sister's wedding and pushing Nagisa and Tomoya forward, she would be content. She succeeded wildly in both instances. There was never any romantic rivalry for Tomoya's affections because she, foreshadowing Mei's role in 23, was already happily playing the cupid of love.

The complete opposite situation gave us Fujibayashi Kyou and, somewhat reluctantly, her sister Ryou. She was far and away the most significant source of romantic rivalry (albeit largely vicariously) in the show, but that's a tough role to play in a series like Clannad. Tomoya's "choice" was never for a moment "Who will I love" but rather "Do I let myself love her?" If, not who. So Kyou was destined for the hard and fast fall she experienced in 18. But her role also let her interact with Tomoya in ways none of the other girls did. Try and put anyone else in the gym storage shed situation, it just would not have worked.

When she wasn't arranging ill fated romantic assaults, she spent a lot of time as the big sister to the group, particularly the moe trinity of Ryou, Kotomi and Nagisa. More than once I forgot that she was in the same year as most everyone else. She had a childish side, definitely, but when she's scolding her friends like an annoyed mother, it's easy to sympathize with her. She also provided bursts of energy and noise and action when Tomoyo wasn't around, which made her role a again a bit different. I do feel bad for her in the end, but I never would have accepted anyone less than Nagisa for Tomoya. I just wonder what role she'll play in After Story, if any. Will her feelings bubble back to the surface, or has she come to terms with the way things are?

Basically, can she put her hand on Nagisa's head, smile honestly, and say "I'm glad it was you" just like Sakagami Tomoyo did? I wonder if Tomoyo sees in Kyou a bit of what she might have become had she met Tomoya earlier. Mmm. Probably not - her story is notable for being the most disconnected from the other characters. By the time we meet her, she's already a girl with a plan. She knows what she wants to achieve, how to achieve it, and what she'll do when she gets there. Her emotional baggage is pretty securely packed away and cataloged. She never breaks down, rarely loses her cool, and even staring down a raging Kyou, doesn't blink. She's still feeling her way around the world in some cases (figuring out how she feels about Tomoya, trying to act like a "normal girl"), but she's remarkably levelheaded, smart, and driven. I feel like despite being younger she was able to take a more mature approach to Tomoya than Kyou (true, she benefits from not knowing him as long), which is why Kyou bursts into tears in 18 while Tomoyo just smiles wistfully, thinks about what might have been, then gets back to work. She is able to say "I'm glad it was you," and mean it, and be happy for them both. I believe Kyou well get there some day, but I don't think she's not there yet (she's still kyockblocking, even in 23).

Ichinose Kotomi is an enigma. Her situation is quite interesting, completely different from Tomoyo's, and I suppose the most "typically bishoujo". Childhood promises, lost memories, emotional reunion. She is by far the most intimately bound to Tomoya's past and so you would expect her story to be the one most isolated from the other girls. But that's not quiet the case. If anything, she's more integrated into the larger Clannad family than anyone save Nagisa. She's an early convert to the theater club, she's best friends with Nagisa and Ryou, and she's always with the group, even moreso after her story is resolved. All she lacked was involvement in the Furukawa household.

She's also interesting because she's simultaneously running away from and chaining herself to the reality of her parents' death and what she did afterwards. She knows the "bad man" isn't really, but flees whenever she sees him, afraid of the news he'll bring. And yet she punishes herself with the job of taking up her parents' research and saving clippings of everything that mentions them. Hers is probably the most clear cut case of "being saved" by Tomoya - but since this is Clannad, everyone pitched in. They could only go it together.

The secondary characters would take too long to cover in such detail, but they're all wonderful. Miyazawa Yukine is partly responsible for Zombie Fuuko! and gym equipment shed, as (indirectly) for the basketball game. Her reference room/cafe became somewhere troubled characters could go to get advice and put their mind in order. Sunohara Mei only had two episodes in which to make an impression, but it was lasting and impressive. But 23 was her time to shine. What Fuuko Cupid began, Mei Cupid brought all the closer to completion. Truly, an epic imouto if there ever was one, and quite possibly one of my favorite characters in the show. Ibuki Kouko, Yoshino Yusuke, and Koumura-sensei all added their share to the Fuuko arc. I suppose I can't say much about Tomoya's father. He's "important", but not so much for what he does (which is nothing) as for what he represents for Tomoya. And there's always Nishina Rie, the arms dealer, proliferating violins of mass destruction to rogue geniuses. I would have liked to see more of Sagara Misae.

Furukawa Sanae and Furukawa Akio should probably be in the main list above. They weren't just Nagisa's parents - Tomoya, Fuuko and Mei all called the Furukawa Bakery home at one point or another. Akio was an unmovable pillar of support for everyone around him. He saved Nagisa's play, and by extension Nagisa herself, in a way that, at that moment, nobody else alive could have done. Sanae was a deep, nourishing well of love and affection that never ran dry. Again, not just for Nagisa, but for all who came into her life. It's hard to overstate just how much these two added to the show, and to Tomoya's development as a character.

--------------

...

I guess the question is, what am I getting at, 4000 words later? Clannad is good. Absurdly good. And with After Story confirmed I feel confident declaring it the best KeyAni collaboration to date, and thus one of the top three Kyoto Animation productions ever. While some claim that all 'bishoujo shows' are alike, as if Air is Kanon is Clannad is Da Capo is Shuffle is To Heart is H2O, I think Clannad is original, refreshing, and unique. No show is the first to use any of its various elements, but all shows are responsible for arranging and combining those elements in a unique and creative way. Clannad has done that with virtuoso skill.

Most shows end here. Confession, happiness, the end. All Clannad lacked was a kiss, which it could have done if it wanted. But knowing that Clannad will be back, that the story continues, that the relationship will continue to grow and develop, lends a layer of depth to the story that I never anticipated being able to look forward to.

I can't wait for After Story. It's going to be glorious.

[HitokiriShadow]

I thought the insert song in episode 9 worked rather well. But I agree that Clannad's ED is the best of the KeyAni trinity. I'm not sure on the OPs, they are all great and it's hard to choose a favorite. I watched the OP just about every time and that "just about" is including the 16:9 rewatches. I think I've skipped it maybe twice.

That was a great analysis of the characters. I'm partial to Kyou, but I agree that Nagisa is the only one for Tomoyo. Nagisa is a perfect compliment to Tomoya and, like you, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Really, my only complaint with the series is that we didn't get another episode to handle the Kyou/Tomoyo storylines. I'm fine with doing them simultaneously but those two episodes felt a tad packed. In Clannad (and other KeyAni productions) things typically happen at a steady, somewhat leisurely pace. But it really felt like they crammed a good deal of material in those episodes. Moreover, I just wanted a bit more time with them in the spotlight. I just wish they had spent an extra episode on that instead of the recap episode. But it wasn't a big deal and was the only complaint I have on an otherwise stellar series.

Tomoyo was, as you said, largely disconnected from the rest of the group. However, since her storyline we've seen her slowly begin to connect with everyone as she keeps joining them in their activities, much to Kyou's chagrin. I think she'll continue to become more integrated with the group in After Story.

[EmperorBrandon]

I really like all of the theme songs for all three KyoAni-adapted Key titles. Dango Daikazoku is definitely my favorite, though.

I will hold off on rewatching for now. I want to save that for when it hopefully gets licensed and I can see it again on an R1 release. If not, then at least want to wait a little while. I like to keep even my favorites a little bit fresh when I rewatch them (as much as I'm tempted to watch them several times over).

By the way, as far as favorite characters go, I was thinking of doing a poll, but not sure how to structure it. Should it be in this thread, or a new thread? Only girls, or include guy characters? Separate poll for supporting characters, or all together?

[HitokiriShadow]

I'd think you should do one poll for the main girls, another for the supporting characters regardless of sex. And maybe allow two picks for the supporting cast poll.

[EmperorBrandon]

I'd think you should do one poll for the main girls, another for the supporting characters regardless of sex. And maybe allow two picks for the supporting cast poll.

Seems like a good idea. Should Ryou be in with the main girls, or the supporting characters? She's kind of a borderline case in my mind.

[HitokiriShadow]

I consider the "main girls" to be the ones that were named in the OP and would have been the stars of their respective routes in the game. Ryou is borderline in some ways as she is there the whole time and has much more presence than other such characters, but its still Kyou's arc, not Ryou's.

[something]

I consider the "main girls" to be the ones that were named in the OP and would have been the stars of their respective routes in the game. Ryou is borderline in some ways as she is there the whole time and has much more presence than other such characters, but its still Kyou's arc, not Ryou's.
Agreed. And as much as I like Ryou, it's unlikely she's #1 or even #2 for the vast majority of people. Might as well keep it to the main girls.

Though maybe 2 votes even on the short main girl list would be worthwhile? It would be cool if Fusion had the option for weighted voting, say 2 points to a top pick and 1 to a second.

Choosing my favorite is easy... everyone else after that, hard!

[EmperorBrandon]

I was wondering if I should allow two votes on the main girls myself. I think the poll would be more interesting if I force people to choose just one, though. :)

[something]

Really, my only complaint with the series is that we didn't get another episode to handle the Kyou/Tomoyo storylines. I'm fine with doing them simultaneously but those two episodes felt a tad packed.
It definitely was, but though I'm just so glad they found a good way to do it that I didn't mind. Doubly so now, knowing how the series actually only had 22 episodes to finish the play arc.

But it would have been interesting to have seen Nagisa come to some sort of realization about Kyou's feelings. Even now I don't think she ever had a sense of how Kyou or Ryou felt. Partly because, of course, Kyou always held back when Nagisa was around, and never directly took her frustrations out on her (for which she deserves credit). It was mostly done when Nagisa was away, with reasoning like "Well they aren't officially dating!" And that's what made Ryou so uneasy about it, even putting aside what she knew about Kyou's feelings.

So how would Nagisa react if she had known? Would she have felt guilty and pulled back? Hmm, maybe it's best she remained relatively oblivious.

[EmperorBrandon]

I can understand the frustration that they didn't get enough time to themselves, but I really liked the handling of the Kyou/Tomoyo combined arc myself. While I think they managed to get through it a way that didn't feel too rushed, I can see why that point could be debatable for some. Those were among the most memorable episodes to me, though.

[Nosredna]

I enjoyed that episode a lot more than I thought I would. To be honest, I was a bit worried about the shows direction now that Tomoya and Nagisa are a couple, but all my fears were gone after the episode. Now I'm completely looking forward to After Story. Although I wonder how long of a series it's going to be. Nagisa truly was the right pick.

[Nosredna]

Really, my only complaint with the series is that we didn't get another episode to handle the Kyou/Tomoyo storylines. I'm fine with doing them simultaneously but those two episodes felt a tad packed.

I agree with you. Especially since the show ended on a weird episode number. As a Kyou fan, I think we should have gotten more time for her arc.

[Suwako Moriya]

This episode was rather good. Nagisa and Tomoya make a wonderful couple and it's a nice change of pace to see the couple in scenes after becoming one. Plus Mei is underused yes, but she's still a wonderful character. In some ways she's my type. Did I just say that?

[Ty]

I enjoyed that episode a lot more than I thought I would. To be honest, I was a bit worried about the shows direction now that Tomoya and Nagisa are a couple, but all my fears were gone after the episode. Now I'm completely looking forward to After Story. Although I wonder how long of a series it's going to be. Nagisa truly was the right pick.

I'm going to put this whole comment in hide tags out of respect just in case. There is nothing explicitly spoilerish in my comment, but still:
I was looking forward to the After Story too, until now. I just watched the movie. If the next series follows the same storyline I'm not sure I could take those events drawn out in quadruple length. I don't regret watching the move, it was beautiful, but it was...... not what I was expecting. Keep in mind I know nothing of the game or story and think the animation is better watched in that state. I finished watching it 30 minutes ago and my hands are still shaking.

[Nosredna]

I'm going to put this whole comment in hide tags out of respect just in case. There is nothing explicitly spoilerish in my comment, but still:
I was looking forward to the After Story too, until now. I just watched the movie. If the next series follows the same storyline I'm not sure I could take those events drawn out in quadruple length. I don't regret watching the move, it was beautiful, but it was...... not what I was expecting. Keep in mind I know nothing of the game or story and think the animation is better watched in that state. I finished watching it 30 minutes ago and my hands are still shaking.

You make excellent points. In a way I hope the After Story isn't too long, because as great as the show has been I'm afraid things might be drawn out more than they need to be. But I put enough trust in Kyoto Animation that they'll do a good enough job to alleviate our fears.

[Ty]

That's not exactly what I mean. I don't think I've ever watching anything in my life that has left me so emotionally shaken up. It really brought into focus how much I care about this show and it's characters. I was floored when Air made my cry at the end because I don't get emotionally involved in what I watch to the point where I feel that strongly. Clannad the Movie made my cry at the end too, but not like Air. It wasn't some teary eyed thing. I mean my lower lip started trembling and I flat out started sobbing. I have NEVER felt that way watching any anime before..... period. It was..... incredible. But I don't want to feel that way watching an even longer version of this, it would be too sad.

Well, I'm sure I will watch it of course. I'm just more stirred up than I ever thought I could be after watching that.

[Nosredna]

Ah sorry I misunderstood you, but reading your thoughts makes me want to see the movie now (as opposed to waiting until after Kyoto Animation finished After Story).

[Ty]

Ah sorry I misunderstood you, but reading your thoughts makes me want to see the movie now (as opposed to waiting until after Kyoto Animation finished After Story).
I don't regret watching it first. Just be prepared to have your heart broken then put back together again all within the space of 30 minutes.

[Shiroi Hane]

Fuuko's body. Even 23 didn't touch that subject.
I think you'll find that's 34, not 23 and unfortunately it most certainly will have already touched her body.

[Buster Blader 126]

Finally watched 22.

The ending wasn't as dramatic as the other two Key series, but it was still pretty good in my book. It didn't really feel very conclusive, but the confession was conclusive enough for me in regards to the TV series.

I was kind of expecting Akio to come and save the day, and good thing he did. I must say, I teared up during that scene.

Well, one more episode to go. I'm itching to see this "After Story" now, but can somebody tell me what it is? What more is there to the story?

[Nosredna]

Well, one more episode to go. I'm itching to see this "After Story" now, but can somebody tell me what it is? What more is there to the story?

It's hard to explain what it is without major spoilers. I really don't suggest you look it up either. But as far as I can tell it's a continuation of Nagisa's arc, ten years later. Not sure that's exactly it, but that's the information I gathered.

[Buster Blader 126]

It's hard to explain what it is without major spoilers. I really don't suggest you look it up either. But as far as I can tell it's a continuation of Nagisa's arc, ten years later. Not sure that's exactly it, but that's the information I gathered.

Hmm, that's definitely interesting, if what you're saying is right.

And quite frankly, when it comes to romantic dramas and series with a very intricate plot (like Code Geass), I have a 0% tolerance on spoilers. So I'm definitely not looking anything up regarding this.

I also watched 23 last night, and it was a pretty fun episode. Seeing Nagisa acting all awkward while saying her lines for Mei's plan got a few "awwww!"'s out of me. :laugh:

& I have to say, I like Mei a little more thanks to this episode. She was absolutely adorable, not to mention quite smart for her age.

Overal, I'd say that the only real flaw of the series at this point, is that we don't have a kiss scene between Nagisa & Tomoya. And to think I'll have to wait until After Story before another opportunity for that arises. I want a kiss scene, damn it! :grin:

[hinode85]

Since no one else has posted it yet:

http://abanzai.animeblogger.net/2008/04/01/clannad-tomoyo-chapter-confirmed/

The DVD-only episode will be Tomoyo-centric, and totally distinct from the rest of the show. April Fool's Day has been over long enough for me to be sure it's not a hoax.

Wonder what it'll be about; the description makes it sound like they're animating Tomoyo's arc from the game, but that can't possibly fit in <30 minutes.

[something]

Since no one else has posted it yet:
http://abanzai.animeblogger.net/2008/04/01/clannad-tomoyo-chapter-confirmed/
The DVD-only episode will be Tomoyo-centric, and totally distinct from the rest of the show.
So it's NOT a recap? Awesome. Is this maybe a condensed taste of Tomoya After or something? She was the most popular girl from the game, or so I've heard.

[Ty]

Since no one else has posted it yet:
http://abanzai.animeblogger.net/2008/04/01/clannad-tomoyo-chapter-confirmed/
The DVD-only episode will be Tomoyo-centric, and totally distinct from the rest of the show.
So it's NOT a recap? Awesome. Is this maybe a condensed taste of Tomoya After or something? She was the most popular girl from the game, or so I've heard.
An interesting contrast from fans outside of Japan, considering she got owned in our own character poll.

[Gatts]

a condensed taste of Tomoya After or something?

An interesting typo. Seeing Tomoya get it on with his clone could be a draw for the female crowd.

[Suwako Moriya]

Ah good to see a DVD episode focused on Tomoyo since she needs more focus. Then again so does Kyou, but ah well.

[HitokiriShadow]

Given that was posted on April 1st, I'm skeptical of the claim. But if its true, I would be very happy. Far better than a recap.

[HitokiriShadow]

Since no one else has posted it yet:
http://abanzai.animeblogger.net/2008/04/01/clannad-tomoyo-chapter-confirmed/
The DVD-only episode will be Tomoyo-centric, and totally distinct from the rest of the show.
So it's NOT a recap? Awesome. Is this maybe a condensed taste of Tomoya After or something? She was the most popular girl from the game, or so I've heard.

Well, if its true, I wouldn't expect it to be Tomoyo After because, from what I hear, Tomoyo After is mutually exclusive from a Nagisa ending. My guess is that it involves Tomoya choosing Tomoyo. But I suppose they could re-write things depending on what it involves.

But I'm still skeptical this is real.