Appleseed Ex Machina - US BD ver Dub only?

[Rhodes]

http://www.amazon.com/Appleseed-Machina-Blu-ray-Kara-Greenberg/dp/B0010358CG/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1202497931&sr=1-11

the listing at amazon says closed captioned... guess for hearing impaired for the subtitle track... and that the only language listed is english.

if so that sucks and i am gonna skip this.

[slerch666]

And TRSI says it's "hybrid," which means dual language availability. (http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/IwcRZy8o19g6UYvrMp/browse/item/77052/4/0/0)

[Chris Beveridge]

Amazon is notorious for leaving off info.

[Rhodes]

ok well i'll wait and see then... cause the WB site has jack for info... just the very bare basics.

http://whv.warnerbros.com/WHVPORTAL/Portal/product.jsp?OID=31572

[TheLaughingMan]

Being dub only would be retarded. And piss everybody off, including me big time!
It better be dual language... :susel:

[Skywise]

Amazon also said that the DBZ broly movies were 4:3 and dub only before they came out. I think you can safely ignore this.

[Mazinkaizer]

And TRSI says it's "hybrid," which means dual language availability. (http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/IwcRZy8o19g6UYvrMp/browse/item/77052/4/0/0)

I believe that TRSI is a better source for such info than Amazon so it's safe to assume that it's a dual-language release :)

[Wagg]

DVDEmpire is pretty accurate as far as specs go as well. As soon as they get the product they will usually post a scan of the front and rear jacket art.

[Rhodes]

No JP audio... only English, French and Spanish.

Skip for me.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Disc_Announcements/Warner_Unwraps__Appleseed_Ex_Machina_Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Specs/1487

[dejr8bud]

Hmm I'll still buy it. Oh well.

[SneakerPimp]

No JP audio... only English, French and Spanish.

Skip for me.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Disc_Announcements/Warner_Unwraps__Appleseed_Ex_Machina_Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Specs/1487
Damn it, Warner! :mad:

[slerch666]

No JP audio... only English, French and Spanish.

Skip for me.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Disc_Announcements/Warner_Unwraps__Appleseed_Ex_Machina_Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Specs/1487

Fucking stupid. I guess there's not enough space on a Blu-Ray disc for the extra audio stream. :roll:

*goes to email a cancel request to TRSI*

[AUSTIN316]

That is disgusting....

[slerch666]

I figured out the problem with the Japanese audio.

It seems the release dates for the US and Japanese editions aren't all that far apart. Reverse importation fears read their ugly little heads again.

[Cplhicks]

Man, I was really looking forward to this one, but the lack of a Japanese track has made me cancel any plans on buying it. I may give it a rent, but that'll be it. What a shame. I hope there is eventually a Japanese BD with subs on it. WTH, Warner? Nobody leaves off the original language anymore, especially not on BD where there is plenty of room. Sickening. I wonder if it's due to Japan's fears of reimportation?

[Cplhicks]

I just looked and notice that the Japanese DVD is due to have English subs according to amazon Japan. Anyone know if the US DVD release does? If it does and the BD doesn't, it's definitely a re-import fear, as Japan doesn't have a BD release scheduled. That would seriously suck for future implications...

[Rhodes]

Yup 25 gigs must not be enough... 3 audio tracks at 5.1 DD must take up alot of room :)

figured the jp studio dont want a release out there with jp audio since they are only releasing this in japan on hd-dvd. if it was out on bd with jp audio folks would import it and never buy the eventual jp release...

hey this could be the new model... dub only in multi foreign languages on shows outside japan, while the jp release will include subs for folks who want to import :O

[kakugo]

Yet the DVD supposedly has a Japanese track (albiet in 2.0)... disgusting. :grr:

[ronin0079]

If this is true... :confused:

This was one of the few upcoming releases I was really looking forward to. Not including the Japanese audio track is just stupid and unacceptable. If it is missing because of reverse-importation fears, the Japanese companies really need to stop this nonsense. It's almost like they want to kill the anime industry in this country (USA). It is silly things like this that keep me from pre-ordering any DVD/blu-ray releases nowadays. Sheesh, I hope this is just a mistake in the press release.

[ojisan]

I emailed RS and asked them to confirm it for me. I am really P.O.ed right now. This means I'd have to cancel my emma preorder because the coupon I used to order is invalid without this disc.

This series must be cursed. The Appleseed movie Geneon released also had a f**ked up japanese audio track that was never fixed and a really crappy let's make the discs so hard to get out that you could easily break the disc in half case.

[Rhodes]

warner's own website doesnt mention jp audio at all... it could be just old info that folks assumed had jp audio. let me see if i can find the press release info with the features for the dvd...

[slerch666]

I emailed RS and asked them to confirm it for me. I am really P.O.ed right now. This means I'd have to cancel my emma preorder because the coupon I used to order is invalid without this disc.
That's why you just email them and don't mention the coupon when canceling. Don't ask don't tell seems to be the M.O. as I've canceled items from orders with coupons that they don't change the pricing on.

[Chris Beveridge]

I call bullshit on it actually. Here is the information as sent out earlier this week in regards to actual disc specs across all 3 versions:

Basics:

Appleseed (DVD)

Price: $24.98 SRP

Street Date: March 11, 2008

Order Due Date: February 5, 2008

Languages: English, Japanese, Spanish, Cantonese, Mandarin, Brazilian Portuguese

Subtitles: English SDH, English (from foreign language), Complex Chinese, Spanish, Brazilian Portuguese, Korean

Presented in 16X9 Full Frame Format

Running Time: Feature – 105 min./ Enhanced Content – 45 min.

UPC: 085391200642



Applessed (2 Disc DVD Limited Edition Collector Set)

Street Date: March 11, 2008

Price: $34.98

UPC: 085391200673



Appleseed (Blue-ray Disc)

Street Date: March 11, 2008

Price: $34.99

UPC: 085391200666



Appleseed (HD-DVD)

Street Date: April 1, 2008

Price: $34.99

UPC: 085391200659

[Rhodes]

interesting... so regular dvd has the jp audio... maybe the dvd se version as well... but the bd seems to be absent? or the press release was fubar and this is all moot?

I hope its the last one.

[Wagg]

I am also hoping this is a case of misinformation. PR/Tech specs are often wrong and lack info.

If not, maybe Warner could offer a trade in program for a Japanese subbed version.

[Chris Beveridge]

I look at it as, in the absence of information in the solicitation for anything beyond the first DVD set, all releases have the same basic technical information. I expect the language options on the DVD to be on the SE DVD, BD and HD DVD releases.

[kakugo]

Interesting that HDD lists 5.1 Spanish and French though, as the specs I'm finding on CD Universe for the DVD releases (Standard and LE) list only 2.0 on all languages but English.

I probably should have included an "if true" on my post, but oh well. Wouldn't be the first time an early solicitation was incomplete or outright wrong, and it'll only be a few weeks until it'll be out and we'll know for sure.

[slerch666]

Well if it IS trickle down and they all have Japanese audio... WOOHOO!

Since it streets in a few weeks I'm leaving my order as is and if it turns out that it doesn't have Japanese audio... I'm canceling it. If it ships before then, I'm returning it.

[Wagg]

Well if it IS trickle down and they all have Japanese audio... WOOHOO!

Since it streets in a few weeks I'm leaving my order as is and if it turns out that it doesn't have Japanese audio... I'm canceling it. If it ships before then, I'm returning it.
Well, I'll probably keep it either way as it's the last disc I'm getting with my Amazon 10% discount. But should ever a version with original language tracks pop up (that's not this one) I'll just eBay it and get that one. I'm not one to pay $70+ for an imported version

[Cplhicks]

Man, I hope you're right, Chris. Still, gonna have to wait to either see a back cover or hear first hand from somebody before I order this. I think it'd be ridiculous if the DVD has that many languages and the Blu-ray doesn't, but we'll see.

[Mazinkaizer]

It would really suck if the BD release doesn't have the Japanese audio :crazy: i'll surly cancel my BD release but i won't even buy WB's DVD even it had it. They get no money from me for that crap :susel: ! what would i buy ? Hello R2 ! :laugh:

[Chacranajxy]

No JP audio... only English, French and Spanish.

Skip for me.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Disc_Announcements/Warner_Unwraps__Appleseed_Ex_Machina_Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Specs/1487


Cool, this is now a worthless product. I hope it doesn't sell.

[LOUiE]

No JP audio... only English, French and Spanish.

Skip for me.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Disc_Announcements/Warner_Unwraps__Appleseed_Ex_Machina_Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Specs/1487


Cool, this is now a worthless product. I hope it doesn't sell.
Did you read the rest of thread? It's been found to most likely be a case of misinformation. The BD should have English, Japanese & 3 million other languages on it.

[Rhodes]

ummm no, the original solicitation for the dvd has multi langs that include jp... not for the Dvd se or the hd versions...

its assumed that they will mirror it, but no confirmation to date.

the official press release states that the bd version will only have 5.1 dd in english french and spanish.

so till someone posts a screen cap of the back... its anyone's guess.

but i would wager that the bd version has only the 3 langs in the press release due to the fact that in japan, only a hd-dvd is on tap for release. why would the jp want a region a bd out that costs less than half of the jp version that would have 1080p video and jp audio?

japan needs to protect their market and excluding the jp audio seems like a good way to do that till they are free to release this in japan on blu-ray.

[Chacranajxy]

No JP audio... only English, French and Spanish.

Skip for me.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Disc_Announcements/Warner_Unwraps__Appleseed_Ex_Machina_Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Specs/1487


Cool, this is now a worthless product. I hope it doesn't sell.
Did you read the rest of thread? It's been found to most likely be a case of misinformation. The BD should have English, Japanese & 3 million other languages on it.


If it is misinformation, then that changes things, but do we know for certain?

[Geno]

No JP audio... only English, French and Spanish.

Skip for me.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Disc_Announcements/Warner_Unwraps__Appleseed_Ex_Machina_Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Specs/1487


Cool, this is now a worthless product. I hope it doesn't sell.
Did you read the rest of thread? It's been found to most likely be a case of misinformation. The BD should have English, Japanese & 3 million other languages on it.


If it is misinformation, then that changes things, but do we know for certain?
Sadly I believe warner brothers would have caught this by now, It seems most likely that warner got bullied into removing it from the Blu-Ray release to prevent reverse importation. But I still don't know what the hell they're thinking keeping it on the DVD version.

[ojisan]

Got an email back from RightStuf, and they aren't sure either. But they said the highdefdigest link I sent them is the only one they have read that didn't mention the japanese audio not being on there. They said they have no contact in Warner Bros. to get a definitive answer. :(

Still not sure if I should cancel it or not. I definitely won't support any release that has no japanese track.

[Soulblazer]

It is not just amazon that has it listed this way. Everywhere that I have seem that includes details on the audio has it listed with no lossless and no Japanese. They say:

Audio

English: Dolby Digital 5.1
French: Dolby Digital 5.1
Spanish: Dolby Digital 5.1

Subtitles

English SDH, English, French, Spanish

[danhawk]

Ill laugh my ass off if the hd=dvd veresion has the japanese audio and blu0ray does not.

[Wagg]

Ill laugh my ass off if the hd=dvd veresion has the japanese audio and blu0ray does not.
Not likely since Warner presses their HDs and BDs from the same master.

As far as the specs being listed the same everywhere, yes, you'd expect that as the websites can only go by what's been released off the PR.

[Njr Scrawl]

I looked at CDJ for Appleseed. No BD listed, but the SD Premium Edition has

The premium edition of "Ex Machina - Appleseed Saga" includes three bonus discs with unreleased footage, behind-the-scenes footage, design stills from Masamune Shirow's "Gravilence," design archive footage, staff and cast profiles, keyword guide, character introduction, the 105-minute US theatrical version of the film, and an HD DVD of the feature.

So the SD is Japanese audio 2.0 & 5.1 with English subtitles option (are they dubtitles, I wonder), and seemingly the HD DVD version put in as an extra, maybe only dubbed.

Also what's interesting is that the HD DVD is not used as prime seller, but an extra for the SD!

[Mazinkaizer]

Canceled my BD preorder (from amazon) and placed the RE R2 release :evil:

[JeffDM]

Canceled my BD preorder (from amazon) and placed the RE R2 release :evil:

Isn't it a little soon to do that? If it's true that the track won't be there, do you really want to reward the company that's most likely responsible for it not being on the US BD release?

[slerch666]

Isn't it a little soon to do that? If it's true that the track won't be there, do you really want to reward the company that's most likely responsible for it not being on the US BD release?
And the other option is? Wait for an R1 re-release? My guess is that this won't be a huge seller to begin with, which means a re-release is unlikely.

And haven't we given the Japanese companies that "hate" us money before?

If he wants to see it subbed and in Japanese, this may be his only way to receive that.

[Soulblazer]

Does the Japan version contain subs? Right now I am going to wait and see what happens. I do not have this on pre-order anyway.

[hikaru004]

This may be dumb. But is it being released on Blu-ray in Japan? A BD version is not on cdjapan. As was mentioned before, the HD DVD is a bonus disc for the premium edition in Japan.

Looks like I may have to return this one after all.

[Skywise]

This may be dumb. But is it being released on Blu-ray in Japan? A BD version is not on cdjapan. As was mentioned before, the HD DVD is a bonus disc for the premium edition in Japan.

Looks like I may have to return this one after all.

No BD has been announced for Japan, only HD DVD:

http://www.animeondvd.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/26875/

Seriously, people, Appleseed BDs aren't going to disappear overnight, and if you're that worried about language tracks just wait until it's out and then you can check it without taking any risks.

[Mazinkaizer]

Canceled my BD preorder (from amazon) and placed the RE R2 release :evil:

Isn't it a little soon to do that? If it's true that the track won't be there, do you really want to reward the company that's most likely responsible for it not being on the US BD release?

What makes you think it's their fault ? i mean it could be WB's fault for not wanting to pay more to secure the rights for it on the BD ? :confused:

Anyway, as Slerch mentioned i am only interested in the Japanese audio with sub so the R2 is the best current option for me since no dual-language BD. Beside i truly believe that the R2 quality will surpass the R1's....as usual :laugh:

[Rhodes]

there is no bd version of this in japan. only version in hdm is on hd-dvd.

however hd-dvd is dead... so it will be released in jp on bd one day... question is when.

i'll wait for a bd version with jp audio and english subs... no problem here if it never comes.

if it doesnt screw em i can spend my money on other things. wont kill me if i dont buy this.

[Soulblazer]

Well, I definitely think they have reason to be worried now. We would have been better off if this was already released in Japan on Blu-Ray. All well, maybe the remastered special edition will include all language tracks and have loseless audio assuming one comes out eventually.

[hikaru004]

This may be dumb. But is it being released on Blu-ray in Japan? A BD version is not on cdjapan. As was mentioned before, the HD DVD is a bonus disc for the premium edition in Japan.

Looks like I may have to return this one after all.

No BD has been announced for Japan, only HD DVD:

http://www.animeondvd.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/26875/

Seriously, people, Appleseed BDs aren't going to disappear overnight, and if you're that worried about language tracks just wait until it's out and then you can check it without taking any risks.


Well, I pre-ordered it so waiting for it to be released and finding out no Japanese audio would cause me to lose some money for the return.

I should have just ordered the DVD version instead. :sigh:

[JeffDM]

Canceled my BD preorder (from amazon) and placed the RE R2 release :evil:

Isn't it a little soon to do that? If it's true that the track won't be there, do you really want to reward the company that's most likely responsible for it not being on the US BD release?

What makes you think it's their fault ?

Because the Japanese have been talking about excluding the original languange from foreign BDs to prevent reverse importation.

i mean it could be WB's fault for not wanting to pay more to secure the rights for it on the BD ? :confused:

Even then it still would at least be partly the Japanese company's fault for asking more money for what should have been included in the first place, if it weren't for the paranoid weenies trying to stop reverse importation.

[JeffDM]

Isn't it a little soon to do that? If it's true that the track won't be there, do you really want to reward the company that's most likely responsible for it not being on the US BD release?
And the other option is? Wait for an R1 re-release? My guess is that this won't be a huge seller to begin with, which means a re-release is unlikely.

And haven't we given the Japanese companies that "hate" us money before?

If he wants to see it subbed and in Japanese, this may be his only way to receive that.

The other option is to completely abstain from purchasing it. I realize that's a totally alien idea, but it's just a movie, and if the rights holder doesn't want to play ball on reasonable terms, I can watch something else instead.

If someone wants to import anyway, that's their prerogative, but I think it should be pointed out that it is likely rewarding them for the situation they deliberately created.

[slerch666]

The other option is to completely abstain from purchasing it. I realize that's a totally alien idea, but it's just a movie, and if the rights holder doesn't want to play ball on reasonable terms, I can watch something else instead.
I can pass on Appleseed, but I'm sure there are some who really want to see it.

Are you saying they should just not buy because of some sense of pride over something that may or may not be the Japanese license holder's fault?

Like I said, people have done far worse.

[JeffDM]

Are you saying they should just not buy because of some sense of pride over something that may or may not be the Japanese license holder's fault?

You're almost completely misconstruing what I said.

I also think you're giving the rights owner too much benefit of the doubt, I think the liklihood of them being at least partly at fault is quite high.

[slerch666]

You're almost completely misconstruing what I said.
I could be. Basically what you're saying is use this non-purchase to make a statement. Makes sense.

And all I'm saying is there are some people who are "dying" to see this (well, maybe anyway). They won't just not buy it to make a statement if they really want to see it is all I'm saying.

I also think you're giving the rights owner too much benefit of the doubt, I think the liklihood of them being at least partly at fault is quite high.
If you read all the posts, I was the first one to posit on the reverse importation fears being the reason for not including the original language as an option.

[JeffDM]

And all I'm saying is there are some people who are "dying" to see this (well, maybe anyway). They won't just not buy it to make a statement if they really want to see it is all I'm saying.

I understand that, and pretty much said that in different words. But one has to keep in mind that being willing to pay any price will at times mean that you're going to be paying any price.

[Chris Beveridge]

ok, just got in my review copies of the BD and DVD (did not request HD DVD).

BD packaging:

English 5.1, French, Cantonese, Dutch, German and Japanese 2.0

DVD Packaging:

English ,French, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese and Portuguese

[SneakerPimp]

ok, just got in my review copies of the BD and DVD (did not request HD DVD).

BD packaging:

English 5.1, French, Cantonese, Dutch, German and Japanese 2.0

DVD Packaging:

English ,French, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese and PortugueseCould you please scan or take a picture of the BD back cover?

[Chris Beveridge]

Image link (http://www.animeondvd.com/images/other/appleseedexmachinabackcover.jpg)

[SneakerPimp]

Image link (http://www.animeondvd.com/images/other/appleseedexmachinabackcover.jpg) Thanks a lot! :notworthy:

[hikaru004]

ok, just got in my review copies of the BD and DVD (did not request HD DVD).

BD packaging:

English 5.1, French, Cantonese, Dutch, German and Japanese 2.0

DVD Packaging:

English ,French, Spanish, Chinese, Japanese and Portuguese

Thank you. :grin: :grin: :grin:

[Chris Beveridge]

Does anyone know what this got for a theatrical run in Japan? I mean, I wouldn't put it past them to do a big budget movie like this and still do JP Stereo. Disappointing as hell, but, well, I don't trust 'em...

[JeffDM]

Does anyone know what this got for a theatrical run in Japan? I mean, I wouldn't put it past them to do a big budget movie like this and still do JP Stereo. Disappointing as hell, but, well, I don't trust 'em...

Stereo is a special feature. Cute. At least the language is there.

[Chris Beveridge]

You're reading the graph wrong. Special Features are IN stereo.

[Rhodes]

Its listed as 5.1 JP at CDJapan...

US release is gimped but at least it's included.

[Kaikou]

Its listed as 5.1 JP at CDJapan...

US release is gimped but at least it's included.

Not sure if I'll be picking this release up or not. I'm leaning towards not though...

[Njr Scrawl]

Image link (http://www.animeondvd.com/images/other/appleseedexmachinabackcover.jpg)

The (on select bonus material) for subtitles has me a little concerned.

[Skywise]

Regardless of the theatrical run, the Japanese DVD and HD DVD have 5.1 Japanese (and in TrueHD too).

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20071210/exmna.htm

[Kaikou]

Regardless of the theatrical run, the Japanese DVD and HD DVD have 5.1 Japanese (and in TrueHD too).

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20071210/exmna.htm

I'm hoping that the Japanese stereo listed is merely a typo. :P

Chris when you get a chance can you check and verify that it is only Japanese 2.0 and not 5.1?

[Rhodes]

why? if the bonus material was in 1 language only you should expect it to have subtitles for folks who speak a different language.

[Chris Beveridge]

Warner Botches Appleseed Packaging (02:39 PM EST): The Warner Home Video release of Appleseed: Ex Machina has been problematic in the last week or so due to poor solicitation information and now poor packaging. When the press releases came out last week, different sites had different information than what was on the PDF solicitation. The most notable was the lack of Japanese language options on these sites such as High Def Digest. The PDF solicitation only listed audio and subtitle options for the DVD and the impression given was that it would be the same on all other media (double disc set, Blu-ray and HD DVD). Yet for some reason sites were listing it without the Japanese language option and causing quite the stir.

We received our Blu-ray review copy from Warner today and we're very happy to say that it does include the Japanese language track as we expected it to from the solicitation information. What was surprising was that the packaging lists it as Japanese stereo. The Japanese release is being done on DVD and HD DVD only and they're getting 5.1 releases for it. Apparently this is yet another misprint on a Warner release as the Japanese track is actually a Dolby Digital 5.1 track at 640kbps. The menu option lists Japanese language - in Japanese only - but if you have your player set to pick Japanese as a default you'll be good.

[Skywise]

No TrueHD, but at least it's in 5.1. I'll still hold off until we have the specs of a JP release, but at least it's "buyable" now.

[Chris Beveridge]

Even the English isn't in truehd. Warner's still in crappy audio mode with their dual format releases which isn't a surprise unfortunately.

[slerch666]

Thanks Chris. Even if it was just stereo Japanese I'd be good with it.

Any chance you can tell us which extras AREN'T subbed, if there are any that aren't that is.

No TrueHD is disappointing, but it's less expensive than a potential Japanese release so I'm OK with it.

[Kaikou]

Even the English isn't in truehd. Warner's still in crappy audio mode with their dual format releases which isn't a surprise unfortunately.

Thanks for the update. While not TrueHD, it puts this release into a viable purchase for me. I'm sure the price will be right as well. (in comparison to an eventual Japan Blu-ray release)

[Skywise]

Even the English isn't in truehd. Warner's still in crappy audio mode with their dual format releases which isn't a surprise unfortunately.

Right, but they've shown signs of changing that if you look at things like the HP movies. I really was hoping for more from them at this point than repeating old sins.

[animeforever'04]

hey chris, does the dvd have problems like the blu-ray or what?

[SneakerPimp]

@Chris
Can you confirm that the Blu-ray Disc contains the German dub? Who knows what else went wrong when Warner screwed up their back cover.

[ronin0079]

Thank you, Chris! I can now safely buy this. :sd:

[Chris Beveridge]

@Chris
Can you confirm that the Blu-ray Disc contains the German dub? Who knows what else went wrong when Warner screwed up their back cover.

I believe there's both the german and dutch dubs on it (192kbps stereo). Full review due next week, but I'll try to cobble together the audio stuff early and post it here.

[Chris Beveridge]

@Chris
Can you confirm that the Blu-ray Disc contains the German dub? Who knows what else went wrong when Warner screwed up their back cover.

I believe there's both the german and dutch dubs on it (192kbps stereo). Full review due next week, but I'll try to cobble together the audio stuff early and post it here.

Ok, here's a partial;

Applesed: Ex Machina is a dual format release from Warner Bros. that suffers a fair bit on the Blu-ray edition when it comes to the audio. The inclusion of multiple audio tracks is a positive, but not getting at least the original language in lossless is a huge disappointment. The Japanese language track and the English language adaptation are done in Dolby Digital 5.1 encoded at 640kbps, so it’s at least a bit better than DVD. In addition to that, they’ve included a German dub, a Dutch dub and a Chinese dub, all of which are at 192kbps stereo. Considering the amount of space that should be available and the bandwidth overall, the audio options here are highly disappointing, especially in comparison to something like Paprika that provided what, a dozen 5.1 languages and an uncompressed/TrueHD option as well?

[SneakerPimp]

Ok, here's a partial;
Danke! :)
This is gonna make some people over here pretty happy, at least until Warner puts out a decent German release.

[shokoti]

Chris have you got any way to tell if it is region B only or not?

On the back of the Sony blu-rays (over here at least) it lists which regions the disc is, but there's nothing I can see on the scan there. Although I understand Warners are pretty good at making their discs all-region. I really want this but I dunno if I'll be able to play it. :confused:

[Chris Beveridge]

Nothing is listed on the disc. Warner as you said has been good about not using region coding - since HD DVD has none, why add it for the Blu-ray. I don't see anything on the disc and I have no way of testing it either.

[shokoti]

OK thanks, I might just take the plunge anyway.

[Cplhicks]

Chris, thanks a lot for clearing this up. I was really worried this was going to be the beginning of a) studios not understanding the customer again or b) Japanese studios forcing them to leave of Japanese-- both of which would signal disaster. Glad to hear it's just a big mess of the Warner PR department (and packaging, for that matter) While I too am disappointed with the lack of lossless, it won't stop me from buying it now that I know the Japanese is on there. What a relief.

[itsuka]

Chris have you got any way to tell if it is region B only or not?

On the back of the Sony blu-rays (over here at least) it lists which regions the disc is, but there's nothing I can see on the scan there. Although I understand Warners are pretty good at making their discs all-region. I really want this but I dunno if I'll be able to play it. :confused:

The fact that it includes German and Dutch language elements suggests strongly that it's an all-region disc, as those languages are only used in region B normally, not in A. Warner has as far as I know never released a locked disc. I intend to see the German/Dutch connection as a confirmation of the unlocked state.

[dracore]

I don't get it... Warner would have known that they weren't fully utilizing all of the available blu-ray space. Yet they still continue to release with audio quality that is just a tad better than DVD and lower bitrate audio for the other languages. Given the amount of space (50gb?) available to them to work with... they chose to drop the quality to save even more space??

It seems like they had a deadline to meet and rushed the whole thing - hence a lot of the PR confusions too.

Perhaps the low quality audio was also a mistake on their part? Maybe they will release a fixed version with TrueHD. I can only hope!

[slerch666]

I don't get it... Warner would have known that they weren't fully utilizing all of the available blu-ray space. Yet they still continue to release with audio quality that is just a tad better than DVD and lower bitrate audio for the other languages. Given the amount of space (50gb?) available to them to work with... they chose to drop the quality to save even more space??
No, they are limited to 30 GB because they are using the same encodes for the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. So it's a matter of catering to the least common denominator. In this case that happens to be 30GB.

[dejr8bud]

If that's the case then why does the JP listing for the HDDVD list True HD?

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20071210/exmna.htm

or is it that in Japan someone other than WB is releasing it? or the listing is wrong?

Honestly I don't care that the JP track isn't in True HD. I am glad its a least 5.1 DD. But I would have bought the disc anyway even if it was 5.1 English only.

[slerch666]

If that's the case then why does the JP listing for the HDDVD list True HD?

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20071210/exmna.htm

or is it that in Japan someone other than WB is releasing it? or the listing is wrong?

Honestly I don't care that the JP track isn't in True HD. I am glad its a least 5.1 DD. But I would have bought the disc anyway even if it was 5.1 English only.
It's Pony Canyon in Japan releasing the title.

So that's where that comes from. WB authored the disc for the North American market, not Pony Canyon and they did what they did to be able to include all those language tracks so they wouldn't have to duplicate effort for the German and so on market. Because of the multiple languages, they had to limit bit sizes of the audio to fit on an HD-DVD disc.

Sure, Japan can get lossless on their HD-DVD. It's really easy when you only need to encode ONE language format (lossless Japanese, 5.1 DD probably at 640k and a commentary that is probably 192k at least) on a disc to have the room to fit it into 30 GB.

[dejr8bud]

Oh I didn't know that all of those other languages were on US HD-DVD too. I see.

[slerch666]

Oh I didn't know that all of those other languages were on US HD-DVD too. I see.
English, Cantonese, Dutch, German and Japanese. That's 5 to 1. And if the other languages, while being listed as "stereo" turn out to be 5.1, that really explains why they went DD and no lossless.

Then we'd have arguments "why no lossless Cantonese" as well. ;)

[Skywise]

The thing is, in order to fit 30GB on Blu-ray you need a dual layer disc, which means you have 20GB of extra space to play around with. While the raw encoded files can be used for both, the authoring and muxing are completely separate. It would thus take very little effort to just recompress the original audio source to TrueHD, or even just add in the raw PCM track. They've done it for the Harry Potter movies which got released last year, so I have NFI why they keep to this stupid practice of duplicating source files from HD DVD. It was originally done because they wanted to not favor any format during the format war, but that time is past now, and has been for a long while. It just boggles.

[slerch666]

Who knows how long they were actually working on the release though.

And Harry Potter is high profile. Appleseed? Low profile compared to Harry. So the thinking is likely "why bother when it's cheaper and easier to do this?"

[Skywise]

Because it's not cheaper - if time is an issue and you don't want to wait the hour it takes to compress THD, you can just stick in the PCM track directly.

[slerch666]

Because it's not cheaper - if time is an issue and you don't want to wait the hour it takes to compress THD, you can just stick in the PCM track directly.
Unless you are working with HD-DVD sizes as a restriction and want to use multiple languages.

Since they had to do it for the HD-DVD and it was already done, then why not just copy the same for the Blu-Ray and say fuck it? Using the same files they created for the HD-DVD. That is what they did, unfortunately.

I'm not saying it's RIGHT, but I'm sure that's how the non-thinking went.

[callman]

Do we know it's not BD25?

[Njr Scrawl]

If that's the case then why does the JP listing for the HDDVD list True HD?

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20071210/exmna.htm

or is it that in Japan someone other than WB is releasing it? or the listing is wrong?

Honestly I don't care that the JP track isn't in True HD. I am glad its a least 5.1 DD. But I would have bought the disc anyway even if it was 5.1 English only.
It's Pony Canyon in Japan releasing the title.

So that's where that comes from. WB authored the disc for the North American market, not Pony Canyon and they did what they did to be able to include all those language tracks so they wouldn't have to duplicate effort for the German and so on market. Because of the multiple languages, they had to limit bit sizes of the audio to fit on an HD-DVD disc.

Sure, Japan can get lossless on their HD-DVD. It's really easy when you only need to encode ONE language format (lossless Japanese, 5.1 DD probably at 640k and a commentary that is probably 192k at least) on a disc to have the room to fit it into 30 GB.

So for the best HD disc with Japanese audio & English subtitles, the Japanese Premium set with its HD DVD wins?

[slerch666]

So for the best HD disc with Japanese audio & English subtitles, the Japanese Premium set with its HD DVD wins?

Unless they fuck up the video somehow, then yes.

[Njr Scrawl]

So for the best HD disc with Japanese audio & English subtitles, the Japanese Premium set with its HD DVD wins?

Unless they fuck up the video somehow, then yes.

Was the Japanese Appleseed release video bad?

[Skywise]

Because it's not cheaper - if time is an issue and you don't want to wait the hour it takes to compress THD, you can just stick in the PCM track directly.
Unless you are working with HD-DVD sizes as a restriction and want to use multiple languages.


There is no such restriction for BD though, and no reason to use it. Whether you use a PCM track or a pre-encoded DD track makes NO difference for production costs or time. Heck, PCM is probably cheaper because there's no royalty costs to Dolby associated with it.

[dejr8bud]

Do we know it's not BD25?


Could be. One of WB's latest announcements(some crappy movie) is on a BD-25 with VC-1 video and DD track.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=1048

Maybe they aren't using BD-50's yet

[slerch666]

Was the Japanese Appleseed release video bad?
It hasn't been released yet.

I was just saying that unless the Japanese release has fucked up video, it is the best option for high quality audio. IF they fuck up the video, then I'd say it may not be the best option.

[slerch666]

There is no such restriction for BD though, and no reason to use it. Whether you use a PCM track or a pre-encoded DD track makes NO difference for production costs or time. Heck, PCM is probably cheaper because there's no royalty costs to Dolby associated with it.
I'm not sure why we keep going around like this.

Warner obviously worked with, as you stated yourself, the stupid process they had in place for not showing favoritism for HD-DVD or BD. This means that yes, they were limited to HD-DVD size, or possibly they wanted to get cheaper BD-25s and instead used THAT as their size cap? I'm guessing that even with the multiple languages in DD they were likely able to cram all of it on a single layer BD.

I think we agree that this is a stupid process, even when HD-DVD was in place, but as this title is coming to both formats, one can only assume that for whatever reason they only wanted to do the authoring one time and only worry about, possibly, having to port menus to one format or the other.

I brought up cheaper, yes. In terms of "well the work is already being done," the idea probably was to just use what they already had to pay for. Perhaps they got a better licensing deal on DD because they had higher numbers to replicate? I have no idea. This running around in circles, when we agree, seems kind of stupid and self masturbatory.

[reeker]

Hi, Just to confirm for those wanting to import the USA Appleseed Ex-M, It plays fine on my UK Sony Blu-ray player so as guessed earlier it looks like its Region Free. As I've only watched a couple of mins I'll let Chris's upcoming review do the talking.

[SneakerPimp]

Hi, Just to confirm for those wanting to import the USA Appleseed Ex-M, It plays fine on my UK Sony Blu-ray player so as guessed earlier it looks like its Region Free. As I've only watched a couple of mins I'll let Chris's upcoming review do the talking. That's good news! I hope Warner stays on the region code free route.

[Njr Scrawl]

I really want to know how good the animation & story are before buying it at all on anything. Vexille was disappointing & the Ex Machina trailer with the same shot of shellcases falling seemed less than any GiTS:SAC.

I also want to read a review of the Japanese language track audio quality.

[shokoti]

Hi, Just to confirm for those wanting to import the USA Appleseed Ex-M, It plays fine on my UK Sony Blu-ray player so as guessed earlier it looks like its Region Free. As I've only watched a couple of mins I'll let Chris's upcoming review do the talking.
Thanks! I can go and have it shipped now. :D

[inu-liger]

No, they are limited to 30 GB because they are using the same encodes for the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. So it's a matter of catering to the least common denominator. In this case that happens to be 30GB.

Let's hope that WB dropping HD DUD after May will lead to way more BD50 releases from them, and not releases optimized for BD25's when the 50's will provide the best quality, lossless audio tracks included.

[dracore]

No, they are limited to 30 GB because they are using the same encodes for the HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. So it's a matter of catering to the least common denominator. In this case that happens to be 30GB.

Let's hope that WB dropping HD DUD after May will lead to way more BD50 releases from them, and not releases optimized for BD25's when the 50's will provide the best quality, lossless audio tracks included.


Yeah that's exactly what I'm hoping for too. So maybe we can expect a Special Edition/Collector's Edition blu-ray release shortly afterwards??

It's too bad we don't have contacts in WB to complain about their releases in BD25

[Mazinkaizer]

Regardless of the theatrical run, the Japanese DVD and HD DVD have 5.1 Japanese (and in TrueHD too).

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20071210/exmna.htm

And i was just about to regret canceling WB's BD & ordering the upcoming R2 release ! nah i am sticking to my plan :sigh:

[hikaru004]

Well, The Sky Crawlers is also their title in R2 so hopefully the audio will be better by then if they release it to R1.

[chirpie]

I'm curious to see the video myself. I hear people complaining about aliasing in the US Blu-ray. If it's the same kind of aliasing I saw in the original Appleseed, I'm more likely to blame the CG process than any video encoding issues.

[zipCode]

You can't really create aliasing when encoding. Appleseed 1, 2, Vexille all have it. The masters are bad, yes, but can't understand how they manage that. Also almost all digital made HD discs have it (utaware, freedom, tokyo explorers come to mind).

[Skywise]

You can't really create aliasing when encoding.

Sure you can. There's a number of ways even, such as getting the field order wrong, or converting from interlaced to progressive. There is no "one" answer to it.

[mifuneral2]

No JP audio... only English, French and Spanish.

Skip for me.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Disc_Announcements/Warner_Unwraps__Appleseed_Ex_Machina_Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Specs/1487


Wow, lame. I was all set to get this but I guess not anymore.

[inu-liger]

No JP audio... only English, French and Spanish.

Skip for me.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Disc_Announcements/Warner_Unwraps__Appleseed_Ex_Machina_Blu-ray,_HD_DVD_Specs/1487


Wow, lame. I was all set to get this but I guess not anymore.


You obviously did not read this whole topic.

[mifuneral2]

That's correct. The thread is way too long for me to bother reading the entire thing.

[Legion]

May wanna give this topic a read then. Don't worry, it shouldn't be too long for you. http://www.animeondvd.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/29336/tp/1/

[dracore]

AVSForum has posted a screenshot comparison of the video for Ex Machina. The transfer is flawed in both the bluray and dvd release.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1006227

[LOUiE]

That's correct. The thread is way too long for me to bother reading the entire thing.
Then you missed the fact that dub only no Japanese track is incorrect information.

[Njr Scrawl]

That's correct. The thread is way too long for me to bother reading the entire thing.
Then you missed the fact that dub only no Japanese track is incorrect information.

This thread title needs to be changed, or as the official review has been done - & discussions can be made there now, this thread locked.