Do All Anime Fans Hate American Animation?

[dragonrider_cody]

I noticed there seems to be a very vocal part of the anime community that despises all American animation, reguardless of the show. Many of these people seem to think that all Japanese anime is superior to all other types of animation. I find this kind of bothersome, as I feel there are many excellent examples of animation in the US and other countries for that matter. I especially hate when I hear the latest Pixar or Dreamworks movie being dismissed as kid's stuff, by someone who then turns around and watches Naruto or Dragonball (Yeah..those shows aren't directed at children at all...)

Now while I will admit there aren't as many adult oriented animated shows in America as in Japan, I don't think that's a valid reason to dismiss American animation altogether. There have been some excellent shows, like Invader Zim, that have cross generational appeal and are very entertaining.

So am I alone, or are there other people out there who enjoy both anime and US animation?

[Legion]

I'm an animation fan before I'm an anime fan, so no, I don't share that opinion. There are a lot of anime DVDs that I would part with before I'd be willing to give up my Samurai Jack DVD sets, for example.

I do believe anime has an edge in its execution. Anime is a little more willing to be inventive and daring in its storytelling. However, there are still many fine western animated series and movies. I don't believe one style is inherently better than the other.

[Megadedhed]

It doesn't matter where the animation is from, but as long as it is intelligent and engaging, i will watch it. same goes for movies as well. But then again, I'm an anime fan who dislikes action AND moe, thew second one which is not found very often in American animation.

[EmperorBrandon]

I grew up watching all different kinds of US-animated stuff, well before getting into anime. In particular, my parents collected the Disney animated films for us, so I watched and am familiar with most of them (and even like them still). I also watched stuff on Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, etc. back then, though it never was a major hobby like video games was then and now or as anime is now. I haven't spent much time with non-Japanese animated stuff after I got into anime, but I still can appreciate and enjoy it. So, yeah, I don't share in the "hate" that some anime fans seem to have for American animation, though I will admit I haven't been particularly interested lately either.

[HitokiriShadow]

I don't hate American animation, I just don't really have any interest in it other than watching the occasional Simpson's episode. I don't think American animation is necessarily any worse than Japanese animation, its just heavily skewed towards comedy and little kids while drama and serious storylines are virtually non-existent. And while there is nothing wrong with comedy, American animation's comedy, and really, what passes for comedy in America in general, doesn't tickle my funny bone.

[Lego]

Nope, just the ones that try to be psuedo-anime :grin:

[Suwako Moriya]

The blatant truth is that it was my interest in cartoons that helped me get into anime. I mean sure I don't watch cartoons as much anymore, but I still enjoy them. Granted I don't watch much TV in general. I tend to be out of whack when it comes to the airing times of most shows anyway. However on occasion I will randomly watch cartoons.

[Draneor]

Yes, I personally do hate US animation and other US television programming. I grew up with it. I saw virtually all the major shows and movies from the 30s through the 90s as a child. When I was a teenager, I stopped watching TV for a couple years for various reasons, and even now, I do not generally watch TV. The only thing I watch are downloaded anime and anime DVDs (in Japanese, as I would rather die than watch anime in English but others like it and that's fine with me). I found what I like in college, and I'm more than happy with it. I don't need anything else to watch (hell, who has time). It's like asking someone to say which is more pretty: a bloodroot flower, a red rose, or a sakura tree in bloom? I don't personally like begonias but does that mean other people shouldn't?

That said, I don't think US television programming is intrinsically inferior (subjectively, yes, but that differs from person to person). For no logical reason, I ended up not liking it. It's no different than my loathing of pizza or hamburgers. For whatever reason, I despise the taste of them. Others love the taste of them, but I would rather die than eat one. I firmly believe that there is no logic to taste and that no entertainment is intrinsically superior or inferior to any other.

Basically, I don't believe there is a logical base to aesthetics or taste. You can't measure how beautiful something is--only what percentage of people find something beautiful. People like what they like. I think our differences in taste is part of what makes life interesting. I guess I don't really see the need to try to convert anyone to different tastes. I'm happy enjoying Kanon by myself, even if I were the only person in the world who loved Tsukimiya Ayu.

I want to stress that I'm happy you like it, and I hope you can enjoy it for the rest of you life. For whatever reason, I don't. And that's OK, I think.

[something]

Come now, that's as silly as any blanket generalization so I think you knew the answer without asking. There's no way "all" anime fans hate American animation. Plenty of people even on this very forum watch the stuff.

*I* don't like it at all, haven't watched it for years and years at least, and I have no desire whatsoever to ever go back to it, but plenty of anime fans like the stuff. Now yes, I do hate Disney, but I hated them before I knew what anime was.

[Danime]

Seeing as there's not much that engages the mind, or at the very least makes some sort of emotional connection - I'd say Family Guy is the only American animation I really enjoy, and Simpsons (haven't seen the new, but certainly the old episodes). The rest just seems to be very much child orientated, all the Disney films.. those Looney Tunes shows. Can't stand them - random to the extent you feel like you want through a large hammer at the TV.

I'm trying to think of something that breaks the mould... but I really can't.

[Chuplayer]

Nope, just the ones that try to be psuedo-anime :grin:

This.

I grew up on the DC Timmverse, and I still love it. I watched American cartoons regularly until 2003 or 2004. I loved X-Men Evolution and Static Shock as well as a number of other WB Saturday morning cartoons. After that, the only thing left worth watching was Billy and Mandy. Now, even Billy and Mandy is on its way out. At least it had a good run.

EDIT: Oh, and I love Simpsons, King of the Hill, Family Guy, and American Dad.

[Lego]

Yeah, theres some great original American stuff out there, you don't have to make it psuedo-anime. Fosters, Billy and Mandy, hell even old school Rugrats is great. Look at even some of the stuff on Adult Swim content wise.

[davesimmons]

I loved Disney movies as a kid but they're written too young for me to enjoy now. Pixar writes for all ages so I still like them.

US cartoons are like any other genre, some are junk and some are great like Invader Zim, Animaniacs, Batman, The Tick and the early 90s X-Men.

[kito]

The idea of Japanese animation being superior to American animation is pretty darn ludicrous. Wit, verve, energy and storytelling...these are ingredients that make the difference between bad and good, no matter where the country is.

The genius of Invader Zim can be attributed not just to a team of animators but to the artist and creator, Jhonen Vasquez, creating a randomness that is far funnier and livelier than whatever Seth McFarlane or Akiyuki Shinbo tries to do. American or Japanese, Jhonen beat them all with his vision, as far as winning my respect goes.

And I don't know about you guys, but that "Spectacular Spiderman" show outdoes any high school anime that aired this year. And it's not (just) because Crispin Freeman is Electro.

[Richard J.]

I don't hate all American animation but I do hate the completely mindless stuff and some of the supposedly mature cartoons that are really just every bad joke you can imagine tossed into a sitcom plot. I loved Invader Zim when it was on and I have no problems with the stuff that tries to imitate anime (I personally liked Teen Titans a lot) but stuff like Sponge Bob and Family Guy just doesn't appeal to me.

The Simpsons are great, South Park is insidiously funny, and I can watch various Marvel or DV-based stuff without problems. (Even bought the Iron Man movie.)

I think I just got a little spoiled in the '80s with GI Joe, Transformers, and Jem. (Yes, I watched Jem, I admit it.) Cartoons with plots rather than total insanity. Sometimes insanity is great but I've found I generally like the Japanese version of total insanity than the American version. I find their sense of humor tends to match my own a little more. And anime tends to have more of a plot than recent American cartoons. (Plus you just don't see things like Death Note being made over here.)

I like most of the Pixar/Disney movies, though when the cast is heavily skewed toward talking animals I don't watch. Something like The Incredibles is more my style than that one with the rats. I wish Disney would do more toons in the style of the animated portion of Enchanted. (Great movie by the way.)

[Collectonian]

I don't hate American animation, however I do abhor most of the "new" stuff that seems to focus on potty humor, crude jokes, and stupidity rather than being good stories. I collect older animation series like She-Ra, Transformers, Gem and the Holograms, etc.

It has, however, been a long time since something new in the American animation market interested me at all.

[Keith Palmer]

This very week, the Hey, Answerman! (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2008-03-28) column on Anime News Network touched on that question, and I was a little surprised to see Zac's declaration that this hostility was a recent development; I've always been convinced (although I wasn't quite around to see it first-hand) that in the earliest days of North American anime fandom, there was a certain amount of looking down on "Saturday morning cartoons" and the like... or maybe I'm just confusing anime fans and fans of "the Golden Age of theatrical animation."

As for me, though, I don't consider myself hostile to North American animation in any case, although I suppose I'm not watching as much of it as I did even a few years ago...

[Citizen Klaus]

I certainly can't speak for everyone, but I certainly like American animation.

Mostly Walt-era Disney material, though. Like Collectonian, I'm not too fond of the turn for the crude that American animation has taken in recent years. (Though granted, some of the 1920s Disney shorts weren't exactly high society, either.)

[OneEyedJoker]

I for one atually prefer American animation to Anime. While I dislike Disney (except The Lion King and Nightmare Before Christmas) and Pixar, there have been some great comic adaptions like Batman: TAS and Spawn. And the comedy shows on [as] are some of the funniest on television only being topped by South Park and classic Simpsons episodes.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

I enjoy both, and I also think of myself as fairly selective in both. I was a fan of American cartoons before I discovered anime, and that's something that has never left me.

Chuck Jones is a deity as far as I'm concerned, and some of the cartoons of the early 90s that I enjoyed had brilliant writing... Animaniacs, The Tick, Ren & Stimpy (John K era only, it was all downhill after Nickelodeon booted him), Rocko's Modern Life... lots of great stuff. Even now I still watch things on Cartoon Network like Courage the Cowardly Dog, Ed Edd & Eddy, Billy & Mandy, and Camp Lazlo. Also some of the Adult Swim stuff like ATHF and even The Boondocks, the latter of which is equally as interesting as a sociological study. Home Movies is probably my overall favorite American animated show of the last five years.

So yeah.. Japanese, American, Canadian, wherever... if it interests me, it doesn't matter where it came from.

[Shsway]

I grew up with Disney, early Warner Brothers, Hannah-Barbera, etc. I couldn't see myself appreciating or respecting the work that goes into anime without first feeling this way about these earlier influences. A lot of people in the Japanese anime industry were equally touched, or inspired by these companies and their works. Must I even mention the influence of Walt Disney on Tezuka Osamu, widely considered the father of manga and anime, for the gazillionth time?

Some people hate Disney. It's their opinion and right, but I wish that other folks wouldn't automatically feel as though their love of non-Japanese animated work was somehow threatened by it. The question published by Answer Man's column was a relevant annoyance, but some people should really stop caring so much about what the mouthier folks in this fandom think.

[doink-chan]

Anime fans who bash all American animation (and American animation fans who bash all anime) are a huge fandom pet peeve of mine. Like many people I grew up watching a lot of American animation - Disney movies, Looney Tunes, etc. - and I still have a soft spot in my heart for them. (I also like Pixar's movies.) Really, I'm an animation fan and though I'm more into anime nowadays I still appreciate other animated works.

I also would like to give a big :thumbup: to Shsway for pointing out how American animation has been an influence on anime...it's something that I think a lot of people forget...

[Takato]

I enjoy anime a lot more than I do American cartoons, but I don't think American cartoons are necessarily inferior to anime nor do I think everything that comes out of Japan is sure genius simply for being anime. I love to watch the more serious plot-driven American cartoons like Avatar and the various Marvel/DC cartoons and I have a nostalgic attachment to classic Disney films like The Little Mermaid and The Lion King. I don't really care much for most modern American sitcom cartoons but the humor in American comedy doesn't really appeal to me in general.

But even here I'll make exceptions as I enjoy some classic early '90s Nicktoons, classic Simpsons episodes, and shows like Tiny Toons and Animaniacs, and I'll occasionally watch an episode of South Park, though I prefer Sonic TAS over The Adventures Of Sonic. I guess it depends on whatever I'm in the mood for, really. So, while I prefer anime over American cartoons, I don't necessarily hate American cartoons in itself and I don't think Japan is automatically superior to everything America. It's just a matter of personal taste.

[Mateo_home]

I personally enjoy American cartoons. Though I don't really care for a lot of the newer stuff out there. I enjoy a lot of Disney films (after Lilo & Stitch it went downhill for me aside from PIXAR), Looney Tunes is entertaining, MGM cartoons like classic Tom & Jerry are great especially since it doesn't rely on dialog. I also liked watching SatAM and Nickelodeon cartoons from the 90's like Animainiacs, Batman/Superman, X-Men/Spider-man, and others while I liked back then, I would most likely not care for them now. Actually, one new cartoon I like is Ben10. I like the classic "villain of the week" feeling.

I'm also fond of sitcoms like the Simpsons (the new episodes just plain suck and I just pretend anything after season 10 never happened), The Critic, South Park, and Family Guy.

But in my honest opinion, I like anime more than US cartoons (despite a reason why), but I'll never hate them.

[Speedy Boris]

To list all the American animated shows I've enjoyed would take too long, if that's any indication.

[jecca-neko]

Nope. My like for animation in general made me want to watch anime. I constantly watched animation as a kid, from The Smurfs to He-man to Disney movies and more. It was just a natural progression. I still watch American animation sometimes. Not as much as I used to since I don't have cable, but still.

[Nagato-san]

No, I do not "hate" American/French/Canadian animation. Though, I really have no desire to watch any non-anime programming.

Yes, when I was a child, I watched a good deal of cartoons. Then, I started to watch Sailor Moon on USA's morning block along with Voltron when Toonami was airing it. This is of course in addition to Pokemon, Digimon, DBZ, and Monster Rancher. I started to prefer anime more and more when Robotech, Gundam Wing, and Tenchi Muyo aired on Toonami.

I respect the rights of those who like non-anime. Still, I really only like anime. In addition, I really don't like most american live-action programming either. That's just how I am.

[BluWacky]

Like others, I'm a fan of animation first, anime second. There's just not a lot of American/Western animation that straddles the gap between kid's shows and arthouse stuff as well as a lot of anime does.

I have no problem with Western animation taking influences from anime - Avatar is the best "shounen" show I've seen in years, and after all Osamu Tezuka was highly influenced by Walt Disney in his character designs. Need I mention Oban Star Racers as the ultimate synergy of Gallic weirdness and Japanese animation talent for kids?

Most of the real excellence in animation from the West is coming from CG techniques now that feature-length cel animation has started to die out (although Enchanted holds some hope, I suppose). Ratatouille is one of the best films I've seen in years, for instance.

[Glamrgrl104]

I have always loved animation old disney movies are way better than the ones they are putting out now. Pixar with disney I like though like the Incredibles,Ratauoille,Enchanted(animated part of it) Don Bluth did very good animation for their time (All dogs go to Heaven, Anastashia, Balto)I used to watch a lot of animated shows on tv Kim Possible, Invader Zim hilarious), Old rugrats are pretty good too,Avatar for sure can't wait for the last disc of the fire book to come out. My favs of right now is Family guy, King of the hill, and of course Simpsons. :grin:
But I can like almost any genre. I think I watch anime mainly for the plot and if it is interesting.The animation is astounding in some of them though.

[mighty_vespa]

The easy answer to the subject line's question would be a resounding "no".

I've been a fan (and nominal student) of animation for most of my life. I grew up watching animation from studios like Warner Bros, Hanna-Barbara, Rankin/Bass, Filmation, DiC, Disney, Nickelodeon and whatever anime was shown on TV in my youth.

Yes. The majority of the animation I watch now is Japanese created. But, if that's all I ever focused on, I would've missed out on Warner Bros' incredible run with shows like Batman:TAS, Animaniacs and Justice League. Plus, shows like X-Men:TAS, The Tick, Reboot and Beastwars would have flown completely under my radar, if I were just zero-ed in on Japanese anime alone. And I can't imagine how much poorer I'd be if I never watched the great work Brad Bird has done (Iron Giant, Incredibles, Ratatouille) because it wasn't from Japan.

Animation is just a form of storytelling and, in many cases, a glorified toy commercial. I believe it's important that fans of either anime or cartoons don't fall into the trap of completing dismissing one in favor of the other for transparent reasons. Not all cartoons are "kiddie crap". And not every anime is "violent, rape porn". There's something worthwhile to be found in each, if someone is willing to look and remain a little open-minded.

[martod]

The one thing anime has over American animation is that they very rarely do talking animal shows. My major problem with modern American animation is since the CG revolution, the vast majority of animated movies are talking animal movies(because it's very difficult to create realistic looking humans in CG without making them look stiff and either overemotional or underemotional). That's not to say nothing good comes out of American animation(I loved Ratatouille), and there's still plenty of crap coming out of anime(as with all art forms), but at least bad anime generally doesn't lean on stomach-churning animal puns.

[meganly_chan]

I love ALL animation, and anime is only a part of it. I watch Futurama, Hey Arnold, Jimmy Neutron, Scooby Doo, etc. almost on a daily basis, or pop in a Disney movie. I grew up to the golden years of Saturday Morning (the 80s spoiled me, I think - stuff like Dungeons & Dragons and Ducktales you rarely see anymore) and Looney Tunes reruns. I've bought several series on DVD. If somebody would prefer to watch Finding Nemo over Princess Tutu, I'll gladly join in, and I'm never going to look down on anyone for it. Why should I?

Admittedly, very few American cartoon series catch my eye these days, and I'm rather sick of talking animals with fart jokes and pop culture references. Anime dares to make things more mature/expansive, complete with continuity, character development, the works. When I first started watching it, I would see things and think, "That's what's been missing!".

[Mazinkaizer]

Well i surly don't hate the classic stuffs that i watched from the 80s & 90s (MOTU, Bionic 6, Animaniacs....etc). Actually i would still collect them on DVD (at least most of them) with the same excitement when buying an anime (old or new). Though for the current ones, i rarely watch animation other than Disney's & Bruce Timm's works.

[DanielJr]

I haven't seen an anime that hasn't topped the 1990's Disney movies: Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, The Lion King, etc. The only ones that remotely come close to the romantic and adventure charm of these movies are the Miyazaki movies (Castle in the Sky, Spirted Away, and Howl's Moving Castle in particular) and possibly the latter portions of Maison Ikkoku.

As for traditional American animation series... Gargoyles anyone? Tell me an updated version of Gargoyles wouldn't be sick.

[GundamWingMan]

This is just my opinion, so don't take this the wrong way, but I find those who say they hate American animation solely in favor of Japanese anime to be snobbish or elitst. If anime never made it's way to our shores or people never even heard of it, would they still feel that way. I think not.

I don't hate U.S. animation, over the many, many years I've watched cartoons, I've found and still find plenty to like about what's created here. I've always enjoyed the Warner Bros. shorts (Bugs Bunny, Roadrunner, Daffy Duck, etc.) from the 50's and 60's which, for pure outrageous slapstick beats any humor anime like a rented mule. I still find The Flintstones and The Jetsons (which I grew up watching) to have been great stuff and the Bruce Timm reimagined superhero franchises (Batman, Superman, Justice League) were highly revolutionary and resurrected what was once considered a dead genre. And who in the world can possibly hate The Simpsons??

Oh sure, in terms of style, story, substance and pure visual impact, anime is vastly superior to just about anything made here, and I eat it up like a starving man at a buffet, but I haven't dismissed American animation either. Perhaps this is a naive view, but I see no reason people can't find enjoyment with animation from both Japan and the U.S.

[Glamrgrl104]

ooo ducktales was my fav. back then also chip and dale, what was that one with the bear who was a pilot of some sort? Darkwing duck, all the oldie shows lol Scooby doo.
Furturama hilarious just watched the movie they have out pretty good.

[StudioZEL]

Like all things, it's a quality thing for me. I'll watch a quality anime before I watch a shitty american animation, and visa versa. I'll take Lilo and Stitch over Tekken the movie anyday (yes, I know that was an OVA and not a movie, but that's what it was called here... ^^)

[Konoha]

Sure, I like both, I like animation from other countries too - I thought Persepolis was one of the best animated movies I'd seen in a long time, from any country.

My big draw to anime originally was that it wasn't completely episodic, they way a lot of cartoons in America were at the time. Now I'm watching Avatar: The Last Airbender and the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and they both have long plots, multi-parters, and look nice. Plus they haven't gone all the way CG the way pixar and the like have - I like the kind of animation that looks more like cells the best.

[meganly_chan]

what was that one with the bear who was a pilot of some sort?

Tale Spin :)

[curr]

It like everything else there some good stuff and there some bad stuff.

There are a few amercian animated show that I watch, live Avatar, which is better writted than some live action shows! :) and Grossolgy... There the good DC animated stuff can't say I'm a fan of the Marvel stuff but there getting better...

[evilarrex]

I am a big fan of quality animation regardless of nationality. I grew up watching WarnerBros/Disney and anime and enjoy both.
Genre cross fertilisation is important and the impact of US movies/cartoons on anime and the reverse is an ongoing factor in the evolution of both genres.
I do get frustrated when either anime or US Cartoons seek to "borrow" what they (incorrectly) perceive to be cool and hip from the other without original thought. This applies equally to anime as well as US Cartoons tho.

[Greywing]

What was that one with the bear who was a pilot of some sort?

Talespin. :neko:

Like other's have said, I'm an animation fan first, an anime fan second. There's some pretty awesome US animation - Gargoyles, Avatar, the DC Animated Universe, She-Ra, He-Man, Bravestarr, Futurama, American Dad, South Park, etc. I've got a real love for the 80s toy ad shows too, even though a lot are terrible when viewed objectively. Pretty much the whole Filmation library is an example of how to tell short-form stories in an animated medium with a tiny budget - great from both a creative and production sensibility.

It's not just US stuff either - UK shows such as Danger Mouse, Count Duckula, Avenger Penguins, Trap Door, The Dream Stone and more are beautiful examples of animation of various styles, not to mention the ton of content from mainland Europe.

Animation as a whole is too cool a medium to dismiss a certain production of, based on its region of origin.

[Shsway]

Tale Spin :)

I SO want to buy Tale Spin on DVD, but I did hear that they edited the content of the pilot (and probably that of other episodes too). I HAD to own Darkwing Duck, which also apparently received (minor) edits, though I didn't feel too horrible about those. And I was actually glad to have been ignorant of the fact before plunking down my money.

*Grumbles about Melody Time and other cherished videos that also won't see a proper upgrade to DVD because of a certain demographic of easily-offended consumers*

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

ooo ducktales was my fav. back then also chip and dale, what was that one with the bear who was a pilot of some sort? Darkwing duck,

The Disney Afternoon! Wow, I was hooked on that when I was a kid. Gummy Bears was part of it when it first started I think. Don't forget Goof Troop. ;)

[bctaris]

Let me put it one way: I would pay an ungodly sum more than I've spent on many complete anime series for all of Tiny Toons, uncut with (by some miracle) all music intact, on DVD.

I came to anime from manga. But like I came to manga from American and European comics, I wouldn't have even noticed anime if I were not already a devoted fan of animation.

[tstidm1]

I am a huge fan of American Animation (especially 80's and 90's animation) still. Pinky and the Brain and animaniacs showed that talking up to kids still entertained them and their older brothers and sisters.

[mike.motaku]

I like cartoons. Regardless of the country of origin. Granted the bad ones outweigh the good ones by a wide margin, but that, to me anyway, doesn't seem to be country specific.

Are there elitists who think the only true art is the one they've chosen to worship? Sure. But I look down on those poor benighted souls from the superior elevation of my ivory tower. The view is fantastic. And y'all look like ants from up here. Tiny, crunchy little ants.

:susel:

[Garasharp K7]

I grew up watching both American and Japanese cartoons, not to mention UK shows as well. I watched plenty of Disney stuff along with Tex Avery shorts, Tom & Jerry, Looney Toons, Transformers, Inhumanoids, Defenders of the Earth, and others along with Voltron, Robotech, Macron 1, Harlock et al. They were all just fun cartoons to me. And I can't forget other great shows like The Tick, Ren & Stimpy, Invader Zim, the short-lived but still enjoyable Silver Surfer, The Big Guy & Rusty the Boy Robot, Samurai Jack, Harvey Birdman and Megas XLR. Love 'em.
Granted I tend to lean more toward anime nowadays and a lot of the current Disney and Nickelodeon stuff doesn't interest me at all, but I still enjoy animation in general. Echoing what Nobue said, if it's interesting, (and fun) I don't care where it's from.

[JTurner]

I personally grew up on American animation -- Disney, Looney Tunes, Hanna-Barbera, etc., -- so naturally it was my admiration of it that lead me to Anime.

As for believing that one is superior to the other, well, to me that's really no different an argument from English VAs vs. Japanese VAs. Just as there are good dubs and not-so-great dubs from either side of the coast, there are good American animation films and bad animation films. Believe it or not, even Anime can produce its share of clunker films.

Everything has its good points and bad points. It really isn't fair to put one down in favor of another.

-Jon T.

[VinceA]

Most of the shows that I love are animated: Gundam, Simpsons, Futurama, Dini-verse shows (Batman, Superman, etc), Ken Akamatsu stuff, etc.

I have, though, run into some people (usually younger than me) that look down on non-anime shows as inferior. So, that opinion does exist in the world but I'll have no part of it.

[Vicserr]

I like animation, as long as the story holds me, no matter its country of origin... :crazy:

[Suwako Moriya]

I like animation, as long as the story holds me, no matter its country of origin... :crazy:

Actually that brings to mind the question of just how much of it is a psychological. Sort of like the old joke where someone rants and raves about how great a product is, but once they realize who made it, they suddenly hate it.

Granted it's not just in terms of who made it, but style. You can have two shows almost exactly the same. The only difference being style of animation. Yet just that difference will make some decide the former is automatic crap with the latter being superior while others will decide the reverse.

[Ryuuroden]

Well I am a fan of both American and Asian animation; however, the ones I like tend to be a lot more limited when it comes to American stuff. I am a great fan of American animation that from the 1980's when I grew up as well as the old 40's thru 60's animation that came out of Disney. For instance a lot of the cartoon film shorts that aired in theaters before movies and such. I am a big fan of Disney animated movies up till Beauty and the Beast. The movies they have made, using traditional cell animation, since then are of lower quality. On the CG side of things, I have been a fan of Pixar and the like. The most recent film I enjoyed was Ratatouille. As for TV shows I like Family Guy, Futurama, and South Park and some Adult Swim shows. Other than that, the majority of my viewing habit is tilted toward Japanese anime.

[Ryuuroden]

That's exactly how it was for me. Grew up on the old American cartoons and that's what introduced me to Japanese animation eventually. I think one of the main aspected of japanese animation and for that matter JDrama is the limited number of episodes aspect to them. The ones I enjoy are not the episodic shows but the ones that have a story that is continued over the entire show. I love shows like 24, Lost, The Wire, Alias, and Battlestar Galactica because they tell a story that continues each episode. These shows also have multiple story lines that intertwine and a complexity to them. I feel that there are many animes that do the same thing which is what draws me to them. Shows like Legend of the Galactic Heroes, 12 Kingdoms, Crest of the Stars, Hajime no Ippo, Code Geass, Macross, Hikaru no Go, Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. Ookiku Furikabutte, The Third, Eureka Seven, Nodame Cantibile, Seirei no Moribito, and Akagi to name a few.

[Greywing]

Let me put it one way: I would pay an ungodly sum more than I've spent on many complete anime series for all of Tiny Toons, uncut with (by some miracle) all music intact, on DVD.

No news on the music yet but this (http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Tiny-Toon-Adventures-Season-1-Announced/9301) should please your wallet. :neko:

[bctaris]

Let me put it one way: I would pay an ungodly sum more than I've spent on many complete anime series for all of Tiny Toons, uncut with (by some miracle) all music intact, on DVD.

No news on the music yet but this (http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Tiny-Toon-Adventures-Season-1-Announced/9301) should please your wallet. :neko:

Unfortunately that item was posted April 1st, so it might do to wait for confirmation. It's a known Holy Grail to a certain generation of cartoon fans, it would be a natural April Fools... But let's say my wallet's heart did at least skip a beat. ;)

[Oniko]

Nope, I pretty much love all sorts of animation. It's never really mattered to me where it was made nor the target age group. I watch Sponge Bob Squarepants, Chowder, Fosters, the New Transformers cartoon, Ben 10, and most definitely Lilo and Stitch (the movies and the TV series). I never stopped watching animated shows or movies even in my teenage years, nor did my parents ever say a thing about my enjoyment of animation. (I was also the weirdo who argued with a friend over who could push the button on the ele'lator at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago.)

The only real problem I've discovered is that some shows that I loved as a kid did not translate well into my adulthood. Thundercats was sadly one of the cartoons that I could not get into that well when the Hubby picked it up on DVD. I've also grown I bit bored of the constant use of plastic looking CG shows (Shrek in particular and most of the recent Pixar movies have been uninteresting at best.)

[Legion]

I've also grown I bit bored of the constant use of plastic looking CG shows (Shrek in particular and most of the recent Pixar movies have been uninteresting at best.)
Yeah, CG animation and celebrity voice-over pandering are two things I'm tired of being inundated with in western theatrical animation. At least "The Frog Princess" is set to be traditionally animated.

[JackC]

That's totally false in my opinion, I love the Venture Brothers and Metalocalypse actually.

[GuilewasNK]

I noticed there seems to be a very vocal part of the anime community that despises all American animation, reguardless of the show. Many of these people seem to think that all Japanese anime is superior to all other types of animation. I find this kind of bothersome, as I feel there are many excellent examples of animation in the US and other countries for that matter. I especially hate when I hear the latest Pixar or Dreamworks movie being dismissed as kid's stuff, by someone who then turns around and watches Naruto or Dragonball (Yeah..those shows aren't directed at children at all...)

Now while I will admit there aren't as many adult oriented animated shows in America as in Japan, I don't think that's a valid reason to dismiss American animation altogether. There have been some excellent shows, like Invader Zim, that have cross generational appeal and are very entertaining.

So am I alone, or are there other people out there who enjoy both anime and US animation?

I am an animation fan first and foremost, its just than Japan gives us more of it.

I absolutely love GOOD American animation.

Batman: The Animated Series (own all of it, including the movies)
Batman Beyond (own all of it,including the movie)
Superman the Animated Series (own all of it)
Superman: Doomsday
Justice League (own all of it)
Justice League Unlimited (own all of it)
Justice League New Frontier
Gargoyles (own first season only)
The Incredibles
Ultimate Avengers
Doctor Strange
Iron Man
Avatar (which is freaking incredible IMO)

IMO, those I mentioned above are absolutely SUPERB. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (uncut) is as good as any anime I have ever seen and I'd be surprised if anyone else who saw it would say otherwise. The DCAU is IMO the only thing that really compares to anime because they really started letting more mature themes be a part of their shows. I own all of the DCAU that has been legally released. Bruce Timm has done more for American animation than anyone not affiliated with Disney or Pixar.

I treasure my DCAU collection more than just about anything in my anime collection, with the exception of my Ranma 1/2 DVDs.

I also LOVE classic american toons like...

She-Ra (own all of it)
He-Man (own all of it)
Space Ghost (the original)
Thundercats
Popeye
Tom and Jerry (pre-1960's)
Looney Tunes (Duck Amuck is sheer brilliance)
Anything Tex Avery had a hand in.

[robotech]

Something that kind of amuses me is that apparently PiQ Magazine had so many people write in to complain about their feature on Avatar: The Last Airbender because it's "not anime" that they posted an editorial blog entry, In Defense of Avatar (http://www.piqmag.com/2008/04/22/in-defense-of-avatar/), about it. The blog post makes some pretty good points about the quality of Avatar and the characteristics it has that anime fans might enjoy if they were to give it a shot.

It amuses me that there are apparently that many anime snobs out there.

[bctaris]

Something that kind of amuses me is that apparently PiQ Magazine had so many people write in to complain about their feature on Avatar: The Last Airbender because it's "not anime" that they posted an editorial blog entry, In Defense of Avatar (http://www.piqmag.com/2008/04/22/in-defense-of-avatar/), about it. The blog post makes some pretty good points about the quality of Avatar and the characteristics it has that anime fans might enjoy if they were to give it a shot.

Seems the article and its subject were more a target for readers expecting PiQ to remain like Newtype, and their disappointment in that, than very much the show itself. Still, good for PiQ. Though buying it would never interest me anymore than Newtype or most genre magazines, the broader coverage better represents what younger "fandom" is, which includes seeing few, if any boundaries between where things like animation and comics are produced, unlike the views of a slightly older and more stubborn generation of fans. PiQ's editors are rightly seeing the future trends.

[Redcoffin]

Animation fans in any country typically have far more access to their own country's animation than any other country's. That means they will inevitably see far more of the crapulous low-quality animation-du-jour. I believe I can speak for those who live or have lived in Japan that a great deal of Japan's run-of-the-mill anime product is garbage. A considerable amount of filtering takes place before it becomes available in North America--and that goes for the unauthorized distribution as well as the licensed. If we had to live in Japan and be saturated with anime all day long, we might have a different opinion about it.

However, that said I still say I find in the best anime a high level of story telling, an attention to craftsmanship and a development of non-standard themes and ideas of a sort that I almost never see in United States animation.

[mrsparklenoodle]

Animation fans in any country typically have far more access to their own country's animation than any other country's. That means they will inevitably see far more of the crapulous low-quality animation-du-jour. I believe I can speak for those who live or have lived in Japan that a great deal of Japan's run-of-the-mill anime product is garbage. A considerable amount of filtering takes place before it becomes available in North America--and that goes for the unauthorized distribution as well as the licensed. If we had to live in Japan and be saturated with anime all day long, we might have a different opinion about it.

Which shows is ANN not listing from the last 4 years? Because so far as I know everything from this recent season with the exception of maybe four/five shows, which I still know about the existence of and could probably find raw if I looked, has been fansubbed, if you are talking about commercials that's fairly redundant as more or less all commercials are crappy as the whole point of them is to sell things to people (and to educate them about road safety or fire safety or some other kind of safety in the case of public service announcements, or to inform about charitable organizations, but this is a lower proportion and these are not really meant to be entertaining particularly either for the most part, well maybe those hedgehogs with their songs about crossing the road...), I am also not including hentai in this discussion as being pornography it is not really made with much artistic aspiration or consumed with the expectation of high art with the occasional exception (I hate the stuff, incidentally, but back to my main point), what is all this "filtered" stuff people keep saying we are missing? I'm not really arguing about whether japanese or american animation is better but I do want to know what all this filtered stuff is.

[miake]

So am I alone, or are there other people out there who enjoy both anime and US animation?

I think you're assuming the extremists to be more common than they are. I also enjoy both, though my tastes tends to run towards classics. I grew up on Bugs Bunny, Woody Woodpecker, Mighty Mouse, & Tom & Jerry, and looked forward to the Snoopy/Peanuts Holidays specials every year (still do). I've always also loved Disney movies, up until their more recent works.

I do find that more recent animation in the US to be more miss than hit. Either way too dumbed down to ooey-gooey sweet for family friendliness (*gag* Bugs Bunny was never sweet), or it follows the same "trying too hard to be hip/sarcastic" that it's become trite. In any case, I would give up much of my anime collections for an unedited, complete collection of Tex Avery cartoons. Those were the golden years of US animation, IMO, and they haven't come even close to that since.

[Jim Leverton]

So am I alone, or are there other people out there who enjoy both anime and US animation?

I think you're assuming the extremists to be more common than they are. I also enjoy both, though my tastes tends to run towards classics. I grew up on Bugs Bunny, Woody Woodpecker, Mighty Mouse, & Tom & Jerry, and looked forward to the Snoopy/Peanuts Holidays specials every year (still do). I've always also loved Disney movies, up until their more recent works.

I do find that more recent animation in the US to be more miss than hit. Either way too dumbed down to ooey-gooey sweet for family friendliness (*gag* Bugs Bunny was never sweet), or it follows the same "trying too hard to be hip/sarcastic" that it's become trite. In any case, I would give up much of my anime collections for an unedited, complete collection of Tex Avery cartoons. Those were the golden years of US animation, IMO, and they haven't come even close to that since.

AMEN....Robert McKimson, Bob Clampett, and others who were responsible for "Merri-Melodies" were very good at what they did. Bugs wasn't "dark" but it wansn't, as you said, super sweet. it was Just right. I really loved those cartoons. And as a matter of course, I didn't like the Disney animated movies. They were technically great, but they just didn't interest me. I think they had a little too much "musical" for my taste.

The "Incredibles" was one that I loved, but Pixar did that. [I don't know how much Disney had to do with that or how Pixar is affiliated with Disney.]

I find that anime has a certian "thing" that holds my interest. Now when one says anime, it's kind of like saying "movies" because there is a wide range of tastes. But I agree with you amigo....I haven't given up on american animators. I'm just waiting to see what little gem rolls down hill to the market. We might be surprised. Anime has been influencing the American market for some time.

[AdrianWerner]

I like american animation (I even cried at Iron Giant, yep, I was the only adult in the cinema without a kid and all the kids were laughing at my tears, damn brats!), there's just not a lot of it being released anymore, especialy compared to the ammounts japanese are producing.
I really miss the big cinema animations, especialy Disney ones, while I can enjoy a good CGI movie, they lack that wonderful charm 2D had (even when that 2D was mostly computer generated).
I've really enjoyed the Hellboy animations recently and at the same time I can't believe how horrible the Dragonlance animated movie was

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

In any case, I would give up much of my anime collections for an unedited, complete collection of Tex Avery cartoons.

I'm still waiting for Warner Brothers to wake up and realize that they need to release director sets for Looney Tunes. All I want is a complete unedited set of Chuck Jones' work. Then, I will be very happy indeed.

[Grimmjow Jeagerjaques]

Nope, just the ones that try to be psuedo-anime :grin:

Same here except for the ones that actually get it right (Megas XLR, Jackie Chan Adventures, & Avatar). It's the ones that come off like bad fan art that REALLY piss me off (I'm lookin' at you Teen Titans, Transformers Animated, and Totally Spies). One thing that american animators just don't get is what makes anime good is solid writing, characterization, and well done animation. Not just crapping out a cheap, sloppy, overly caricatured rip-off of another style.

[leongsh]

... what is all this "filtered" stuff people keep saying we are missing? I'm not really arguing about whether japanese or american animation is better but I do want to know what all this filtered stuff is.
Simple. Take a look at the weekly ANN posts on the top ranking anime in Japan for the week. The top ranking TV anime shows are regularly Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan, Doraemon, Crayon Shin-chan, One Piece, Detective Conan, Gegege no Kitaro, and Yatterman. How many of those would you recognise and have watched? How many of these show up regularly for discussion in the larger anime fora on the net? Then, how about some Spring 2008 shows like, say, Ikuze Gen-san (http://www.ikuze-gensan.com/), or Sugarbunnies (http://www.sanrio.co.jp/anime/sugarbunnies/), or Blue Dragon (http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/anime/bluedragon/)?

Unlike Redcoffin, I do not think that those shows are garbage. They don't cater to his taste of anime shows but they are what the Japanese consider as mainstream anime. Not the specialist/otaku-targeted shows that generally get wide coverage on the net.

[bearcounty]

Lately, American animation just hasn't held an interest to me.
The last thing I can really think I enjoyed was The Iron Giant,
but now all Disney does now are the CGI movies (and to be
quite honest I'm tired of movies with animals.) Also, a lot of
the stuff I've caught on Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon
seems to get more and more ridiculous as the years fly by.
I mean, I'm just not into the whole lovable, but dumb as nails
shows they come up with and I understand that the intention
is that these shows are made for kids, but I just get the feeling
like all that appeals to Americans anymore is silly stupid fun.

[mrsparklenoodle]

... what is all this "filtered" stuff people keep saying we are missing? I'm not really arguing about whether japanese or american animation is better but I do want to know what all this filtered stuff is.
Simple. Take a look at the weekly ANN posts on the top ranking anime in Japan for the week. The top ranking TV anime shows are regularly Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan, Doraemon, Crayon Shin-chan, One Piece, Detective Conan, Gegege no Kitaro, and Yatterman. How many of those would you recognise and have watched? How many of these show up regularly for discussion in the larger anime fora on the net? Then, how about some Spring 2008 shows like, say, Ikuze Gen-san (http://www.ikuze-gensan.com/), or Sugarbunnies (http://www.sanrio.co.jp/anime/sugarbunnies/), or Blue Dragon (http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/anime/bluedragon/)?

Unlike Redcoffin, I do not think that those shows are garbage. They don't cater to his taste of anime shows but they are what the Japanese consider as mainstream anime. Not the specialist/otaku-targeted shows that generally get wide coverage on the net.

Sazae-san - show about family life that has been running since the 60s, I've heard early episodes are better than recent ones, but I don't know, I'm probably not interested.

Chibi Maruko Chan - OK I actually don't know that one other than the name.

Doraemon - Big alien space cat whosit goes on gentle adventures with neighbourhood children, I'd like to see the 2006 (?) remake of Nobita's Dinosaur as I hear that's something special ala the 6th One Piece movie, I have seen part of an episode in Spanish, I'm not interested in most of it.

Crayon Shin-Chan - Running dubbed and heavily edited and being released by FUNimation, I'm actually curious to see some of this, I'd like to try out one of the movies perhaps, but the original version, not the dubbed and edited one, I've seen Masaaki Yuasa's sakuga.

One Piece - I do know this one, I like the series somewhat, I really want to see the 6th movie.

Detective Conan - not interested, do know what this is (detective who is a man trapped in a child's body solves crimes through the rigors of logic I think, or possibly just detective who is a child solves ditto?

Gegege no Kitaro - I've seen a couple of the openings, I love the apparently much better Hakaba Kitaro, I wouldn't mind seeing a couple of the eps but haven't yet and probably won't bother.

Yatterman - silly parody comedy with superheroes, have no interest.

Izuke Gen-San - I know the name and recognize the artwork, I have no interest in the show so haven't bothered to find out more.

Sugarbunnies - See Izuke Gen-san, I'm guessing this is the oh so cute adventures of the sugarbunnies and their homosapien friends?

Blue Dragon - this is the new Akira Toriyama character designed show based on a video game which I have no interest in and which features a ten year old with breasts that are obviously that size for fanservice related reasons and not in the interests of showing variation between people's bodies *frowns*.

[Quarkboy]

I've always liked a lot of animation in general, from tiny-toons as a kid to batman the animated series... Even recent shows like Foster's home for imaginary friends and Samurai Jack I enjoy.

I recently went and watched most of "The Batman", which I found to be quite excellently animated. Too bad the writing was awful :).
In any case I think there's a lot of good american animation out there, and I enjoy that as well as anime, and I'm one of the bigger anime fans I know.

[leongsh]

Snipped the rundown of what mrsparklenoodle knows of those shows
It's good to see that you recognise and have seen some of them. The sad thing is I have actually seen at least a few episodes of every one of them :knowitall: (closest to the eyes-spinning and in-a-daze smilie). They are known as mainstream anime in Japan. Those anime that you seen being discussed here in AoD are mostly niche/specialist/otaku anime with some exceptions.