Is Neon Genesis Evangelion really that great?

[cutliquidsnake]

Everyone says it's amazing. ANN gave it an A+ both sub and dub. I got the complete platinum collection, and I'm on episode 2. I think it's ok, but not great. Does it get any better? Should I give it more of a chance?

[Nagato-san]

Everyone says it's amazing. ANN gave it an A+ both sub and dub. I got the complete platinum collection, and I'm on episode 2. I think it's ok, but not great. Does it get any better? Should I give it more of a chance?

You got the complete collection, so I'd say just watch the whole thing. And yes, it gets much, much better. Almost everyone says that episodes 1 & 2 are the weakest of the series.

[fishsticks]

Everyone says it's amazing. ANN gave it an A+ both sub and dub. I got the complete platinum collection, and I'm on episode 2. I think it's ok, but not great. Does it get any better? Should I give it more of a chance?

Hmmm, you know, it's been years and years (since i originally saw it)...and i sort of want to stop liking it, and that never happens. But then again, I'm an odd one.
The first 7-8 (or so) episodes are meant to be the standard shounen mecha hook (at least, IMHO). I should think there is a lull before you encounter the "meat" of the program. But again, just me. Your results may vary.

[presicion25]

Im only on the Second episode as well, but Im going to keep watching since Ive heard good things about it.....

[zerok]

It does get a lot better, around episode 9 or 10 is when it really starts going.

I'd have to say it's in my top ten, it's a show I never get tired of watching.

[something]

Everyone says it's amazing. ANN gave it an A+ both sub and dub. I got the complete platinum collection, and I'm on episode 2. I think it's ok, but not great. Does it get any better? Should I give it more of a chance?
Oh god... Given that you've said you don't like complex/confusing anime, I'd be fascinated to hear what you think about Eva when you're done. XD

Anyway, I think it's one of the best shows ever made, even if I've moved beyond it in many ways and don't know if I could rewatch it today.

[cutliquidsnake]

Everyone says it's amazing. ANN gave it an A+ both sub and dub. I got the complete platinum collection, and I'm on episode 2. I think it's ok, but not great. Does it get any better? Should I give it more of a chance?
Oh god... Given that you've said you don't like complex/confusing anime, I'd be fascinated to hear what you think about Eva when you're done. XD

Anyway, I think it's one of the best shows ever made, even if I've moved beyond it in many ways and don't know if I could rewatch it today.

Are you saying I probably won't understand it?

[davesimmons]

I'm in the "RahXephon is better" camp since it has an equally good but more coherent story (much lowrer LSD intake by the writer), better visuals, and much more likeable characters.

I'm glad I saw NGE, but I'm in no hurry to own it. I do own RahXephon.

[zerok]

Everyone says it's amazing. ANN gave it an A+ both sub and dub. I got the complete platinum collection, and I'm on episode 2. I think it's ok, but not great. Does it get any better? Should I give it more of a chance?
Oh god... Given that you've said you don't like complex/confusing anime, I'd be fascinated to hear what you think about Eva when you're done. XD

Anyway, I think it's one of the best shows ever made, even if I've moved beyond it in many ways and don't know if I could rewatch it today.

Are you saying I probably won't understand it?

I think the only one that really understands it is Anno himself.

[BonifaceVIII]

No matter what you may think of it, keep watching. Having a personal opinion on Evangelion is almost a requirement of anime fandom.

[The Great Bear]

Oh boy :sd:

Ask ten anime fans what their opinion of Evangelion is, and you may get ten different answers. Not that you'll get ten different levels of like or dislike, but even those who like it or dislike it often do for completely different reasons.

I'll give a classic middle of the road answer:

Eva is definitely one of the more important shows to have come out, and is close to being required viewing if you truly enjoy the medium. So, it's a show everyone should watch.

That said, I found it, in the end, a bit too pretentious in its philosophizing. But this is a case where everyone's mileage varies greatly, about as widely as the difference between a sub-compact hybrid car and a Hummer.

[Serial Experiments Nobue]

All I'll say is you've opened perhaps the biggest Pandora's Box in all of anime fandom. :knowitall:

Whether or not you end up liking it (I personally do), this series gained its reputation for a reason. A reason you will likely discover for yourself if you watch the series to the end.

[something]

Are you saying I probably won't understand it?
Well, if you don't like confusing shows, there are few series more likely to give you trouble.

HOWEVER, it even gives trouble to people who love confusing shows, so keep watching. It's worth seeing once through almost regardless of tastes, and even if you don't know what's going on, it's really damn impressive anyway.

[Suwako Moriya]

So, it's a show everyone should watch.

It's also or rather I should say actually an example of why I don't care much for the whole "required viewing" thing. Not that I'm giving away anything.

[BonifaceVIII]

So, it's a show everyone should watch.

It's also an example of why I don't care much for the whole "required viewing" thing. Not that I'm giving away anything.
Heh heh heh. I'm sure those who hate Evangelion would resent the fact that it's required viewing, but at least you know why you hate it.

[Ryos]

A lot of anime starts out pretty slow. Heck, Noir doesn't go like anywhere the first 10 episodes, and then that really kicked off into another gear and ended up being a big favorite of mine. As far as Eva itself goes, I think the previously noted opinions are pretty much right on for this - regardless of whether you end up liking it or not, you just pretty much have to experience it. As for myself, it started a little slow but ended up being pretty awesome for me, even if I think RahXephon eclipsed it in virtually every way. :P

[The Great Bear]

It's also an example of why I don't care much for the whole "required viewing" thing. Not that I'm giving away anything.Heh heh heh. I'm sure those who hate Evangelion would resent the fact that it's required viewing, but at least you know why you hate it.

One's response to Eva does tell you some thing about what you like, and may not like, in anime. Not everything, mind you, but some thing.

[Suwako Moriya]

Heh heh heh. I'm sure those who hate Evangelion would resent the fact that it's required viewing, but at least you know why you hate it.

I'm not sure if hate is the right word, but well I did find it to be at best rather well average. After seeing the TV series I knew I didn't want to waste a second on the movies.

One's response to Eva does tell you some thing about what you like, and may not like, in anime. Not everything, mind you, but some thing.

Well it mainly tells me it takes more than random symbolism and psychobabble to make me enjoy a series. I mean it wasn't all bad since Asuka was sort of interesting sometimes, but it ultimately felt like I wasted my time.

[The Great Bear]

Well it mainly tells me it takes more than random symbolism and psychobabble to make me enjoy a series. I mean it wasn't all bad since Asuka was sort of interesting sometimes, but it ultimately felt like I wasted my time.

Yeah. I had largely the same reaction. It went off onto its own tangent too much for my taste.

[Sorrow's Companion]

I'm one of those who think NGE is pretty overrated. For me, the cast was as unlikable as it gets. There's only so much of Shinji's whining you can take.

[Suwako Moriya]

Yeah. I had largely the same reaction. It went off onto its own tangent too much for my taste.

It's ironic how for some EVA got better later, but for me it got worse. Mainly because it decided it wanted to be a "statement" instead of a "series". If that makes any sense.

[BonifaceVIII]

What it takes to enjoy Evangelion, in my opinion, is the ability to laugh off the psychobabble and symbolism. It's obvious Anno threw whatever he thought was cool and occulty into Eva to see what would stick, but that's got its own charm. It's primarily a plot-driven show, and I think the plot's at least well done.

Not-so-spoilery added comment below (people who haven't seen the show might not want to read, depending on their attitude): And I didn't see the last two episodes as a meandering abandonment of the previous 24, more as the old trick of "hint at what's going on but don't show it".

[Fencedude]

Not-so-spoilery added comment below (people who haven't seen the show might not want to read, depending on their attitude): And I didn't see the last two episodes as a meandering abandonment of the previous 24, more as the old trick of "hint at what's going on but don't show it".

Probably because you, unlike many people who express opinions about the show, actually have a clue what you are talking about. Also I agree entirely

[sawmill]

I'm in the "RahXephon is better" camp since it has an equally good but more coherent story (much lowrer LSD intake by the writer), better visuals, and much more likeable characters.

I'm glad I saw NGE, but I'm in no hurry to own it. I do own RahXephon.
Same here. RahXephon is EVA done right. Like comparing a jetliner to a blimp. My take on EVA is that it is great in the sense that the Hindenberg Disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenberg_disaster) was great. More spectacular flaming wreckage you will rarely see. But you HAVE to watch EVA at least once since it is such a landmark event. Doesn't mean you'll like it, but watching it at least once is necessary... At least the characters are memorable.....

For the record, I am not an EVA fan yet I own both the Perfect Collection + Paul Champagne LE artbox and the Platinum Complete Collection. EVA is still an important work of anime....

[chronoclast]

Everyone says it's amazing. ANN gave it an A+ both sub and dub. I got the complete platinum collection, and I'm on episode 2. I think it's ok, but not great. Does it get any better? Should I give it more of a chance?

Try to find a copy of End of Evangelion too. It's the alternate ending to the series and I believe is required viewing with the series. The dvd is out of print though but shouldn't be too difficult to find. If you do get it, watch it after you finish the series.

As for my thoughts on the series, it's the series that made me into a fan of anime and is my favorite series period and like others have said every anime fan needs to see Evangelion at least once. I'm not going to say anything about the plot. Watch it and make your own judgment of it.

[zerok]

Try to find a copy of End of Evangelion too. It's the alternate ending to the series and I believe is required viewing with the series. The dvd is out of print though but shouldn't be too difficult to find. If you do get it, watch it after you finish the series.

I believe that EoE is less of an alternate ending and more like what happens outside of episodes 25 and 26. It seems like those episodes would fit in the second half of the movie, during instumentality.

But yeah, if you've watched the series I think End of Evangelion is pretty much required. I lucked up on finding my copy of EoE, still trying to find Death & Rebirth though.

[Shirachi]

Not sure about you guys, but when someone says it's "required" I go out and make sure I don't watch it. Main reason I haven't seen, nor plan on seeing, Haruhi Suzumiya.

My sister owns a couple of single DVDs she bought randomly, and I only enjoyed one episode: Asuka's introduction. I have nothing against philosophy and symbolism, but when I view something I don't want it up there and in my face.

But, I haven't finished it. And I can honestly say I'm not planning too.

[BonifaceVIII]

Not sure about you guys, but when someone says it's "required" I go out and make sure I don't watch it. Main reason I haven't seen, nor plan on seeing, Haruhi Suzumiya.
I hated Haruhi Suzumiya, but I still watched it all. I like being up on things.

[Quarkboy]

Eva is like an anime fan's Myers Brigs Test. By your reactions/opinions of it, you can get a good sense of your overall likes/dislikes.

[Lego]

Not sure about you guys, but when someone says it's "required" I go out and make sure I don't watch it. Main reason I haven't seen, nor plan on seeing, Haruhi Suzumiya.
I hated Haruhi Suzumiya, but I still watched it all. I like being up on things.
"Required" viewing is highly subjective anymore, even with the "Classics". Although I do disagree with Boniface in "watching to watch", why not just save your time and check out a blog for the episodes instead of watching them :P?

[something]

Not sure about you guys, but when someone says it's "required" I go out and make sure I don't watch it. Main reason I haven't seen, nor plan on seeing, Haruhi Suzumiya.
That's a really good way of letting other people dictate your fandom to you. Is being contrarian really so great? If you just aren't interested in the premise of the show or the animation studio or the character designs or whatnot, that's one thing. But not watching it simply because others say you should? To hell with them, make your own decision free of their influence and do what YOU want.

[Isuzu Inugami]

Try to find a copy of End of Evangelion too.

I believe that EoE is less of an alternate ending and more like what happens outside of episodes 25 and 26. It seems like those episodes would fit in the second half of the movie, during instumentality.


That's my view as well, but boy, it seems to be one of the Great Evangelion Debate points.

I lucked up on finding my copy of EoE, still trying to find Death & Rebirth though.In the end, Death and Rebirth is pretty much a recap episode, so I wouldn't angst over it too much.

When I first saw Eva, I wondered what all the fuss was about. I actually thought the first few episodes were pretty good, but then the middle falls into this Angel-of-the-week forumula, until things pick up again in the second half. But over time I found the show has grown on me. I once marathoned the whole thing, End of Eva included, and for about five minutes I understood everything. It slipped away of course, but they were five glorious minutes.

[Steve_the_Talking_Pie]

Everyone does have their own opinions on the show. Personally I thought the show was pretty enjoyable but following Shinji's whiny attitude most of the time gets pretty annoying. Also the ending leaves quite a bit to be desired. It actually really bothered me. To each his/her own. Though as others have said you own the set so you might as well watch it and then discuss it.

[pathos]

That's a really good way of letting other people dictate your fandom to you.

And someone telling you to be a fan, you have to see a show, isn't?

Well, either way, back to the main point. I call myself liking the show. But, I have only finished the show all the way through 1 time. Every other time I've started a rewatch, I can't get to the end. Probably has to do with there being so very few likeable characters more than any other reason.

Even the 1 or 2 likeable characters have..issues.

[something]

And someone telling you to be a fan, you have to see a show, isn't?
You appear to have stopped reading my post after the first line. Please don't do that. I make explicitly clear in the post that people should come to their own decisions based on what they want, not what others tell them, good or bad.

To quote: To hell with them, make your own decision free of their influence and do what YOU want.
Watch or don't watch the show because it does or does not interest you in premise, designs, production staff, licensor, price, genre, etc. Don't watch it simply because someone told you to watch it, but likewise don't avoid it simply because someone told you to watch it. Or for that matter, don't watch it because someone told you not to, or avoid it because someone told you not to.

[Suwako Moriya]

Please don't do that. I make explicitly clear in the post that people should come to their own decisions based on what they want, not what others tell them, good or bad.

Which is far better than trapping oneself. Simply because take the "I will never watch 'required' viewing shows" as an already made example. What happens if one enjoys a show and later reads "It's required viewing"? That's one thing people need to think about. In the end the only required viewing should be stuff that meets the following criteria. First you're able to watch it and second you find you have enough motivation to watch it.

[Isuzu Inugami]

Even the 1 or 2 likeable characters have..issues.

Everybody in Eva has issues... that's the show's charm point. :catgirl:

[something]

Everybody in Eva has issues... that's the show's charm point. :catgirl:
I don't remember who said it or where, but "Even the fucking penguin is manic depressive" is the best way I've heard someone sum up the show. :sd:

[JINROH]

Everyone says it's amazing. ANN gave it an A+ both sub and dub. I got the complete platinum collection, and I'm on episode 2. I think it's ok, but not great. Does it get any better? Should I give it more of a chance?


It gets much better as you go along.I do not watch the last few eps though,and basically watch EOE in its place.I have the disc with the last few eps put away in a drawer,and taken out of my original box set.I don't like the original ending all that much.I understand it,and take it for what it is,but at this point don't really like watching it all that much.The series is well worth a buy IMHO,for those still on the fence after all these years.

I highly prefer the Japanese dub,over the English one though.I normally will watch either or for a given series,but with NGE....no...

[Redcoffin]

It's one of those shows that's worth watching. You have to keep in mind that the sort of ambiance--the feel--of Evangelion was completely new when it came out, but we're more than a decade past it now and obviously you can't go back to what it felt like.

The show's final episodes do break down, for a whole cluster of reasons including the director's eccentricity, and a last-minute rush caused by getting badly behind schedule. However, to contradict what Jinroh said above, I did not find EOE to be a good solution to the story, although it is well-animated and has good music. Whatever the creators thought they were doing in the show, by the time EOE came around they were dead set on violating everyone's expectations, and they did, much to the injury of the show. I've seen EOE once and never wish to again.

However, it could also be said that this unfinished business / open wound aspect of Evangelion is part of the reason it's been such an obsession to fans and creators for more than a decade, and such a cash cow for Gainax.

[HellKorn]

Considering your tastes, I'm doubtful that I'd really recommend it to you, cutliquidsnake. The plot itself isn't truly complex (it wouldn't be if people would actually take what's said at face value and not get lost in the oppressive atmosphere), but I'm in the minority in that opinion.

Evangelion is, in a sense, "required viewing" in that it is an undisputed classic, a title that challenged many aspects of its medium and has changed it (with mixed results; we might not have works by Kon, aBe, Tsurumaki, etc. without it, but it's also made others take an uninspired view of angst with none of the realism and dimensions that made the characters in NGE human). Cannot force a person to view it, obviously, but I'd advise every anime fan to check it.

I'll never understand why people say RahXephon is "Eva done right." Evangelion is a deconstruction of the mecha genre that inspired it with a more introspective outlook; Rah is a celebration of the genre with a more traditionally epic narrative. Superficial similarities aside, they're radically different.

However, to contradict what Jinroh said above, I did not find EOE to be a good solution to the story, although it is well-animated and has good music. Whatever the creators thought they were doing in the show, by the time EOE came around they were dead set on violating everyone's expectations, and they did, much to the injury of the show.

How's that?

[evilarrex]

What it takes to enjoy Evangelion, in my opinion, is the ability to laugh off the psychobabble and symbolism. It's obvious Anno threw whatever he thought was cool and occulty into Eva to see what would stick, but that's got its own charm.

Surprisingly a lot of his fringe references stuck and gets pored over and debated heatedly.
I think that Eva was a classic in its time.
I rewatched it recently and it has held up well despite its age. Unlike RahXePhon.
Rah is Eva-lite - they tried to remove the burnt bits off the Eva donut and they managed to scrape off all the good bits as well.

[Keith Palmer]

I suppose I'd like to think that I respect the series, but have some ambivalence about whether to genuinely like everything about it... but just perhaps some of my opinions about it are shaped by having seen a good many old MSTings (http://www.svamcentral.org/ewic/ms-nge.html) of Evangelion fanfics that went to ridiculous lengths to "save the characters" (or at least those the authors liked.) Peculiarly, that ambivalence about Evangelion may have contributed to a somewhat different ambivalence about RahXephon (although some of that cleared up the second time I watched that series.)

[Njr Scrawl]

Its a show you need to watch with an open mind. Not looking for comparisons with others actively, but noting where tributes/similarities occur if you like.

Evangelion is about the people, their relationships to each other, & the effect that their pasts have had on each other - & how that has a bearing on the present.

Its inter-personal threads are as fascinating as Heroes, & deeper. Evangelion is an adult fable in so many ways, as far as that applies to any modern TV show.

Evangelion could also be compared to anti-hero shows, in that its about a bunch of anti-heroes joining together, as much or more for personal as philanthropic reasons. There is heroism though, & humanity. What makes Evangelion so good IMO is the complexity of its characters & their personalities, & how nothing is as it first seems. Nearest sci fi show to that is probably Babylon 5.

[Garasharp K7]

So, it's a show everyone should watch.

It's also an example of why I don't care much for the whole "required viewing" thing. Not that I'm giving away anything.
Heh heh heh. I'm sure those who hate Evangelion would resent the fact that it's required viewing, but at least you know why you hate it.

Well, I like Evangelion, and even I wouldn't go as far as saying it's an essential watch if you really enjoy anime, or consider yourself a fan of the medium, etc. :)
This isn't directed at anyone here, but it was comments like that - at least more extreme comments - and all the hooplah surrounding the show that put me off checking it out early on. Various opinions of the show I'd seen went from waffling on about how earth-shatteringly mind-bogglingly life-affrmingly brilliant it was to "ZOMG! TEH REI!" and in the end, I didn't want anything to do with it.
But curiosity got the better of me, so I gave it a look. And I actually liked it.
I'd say it's a pretty decent show, it's got an interesting story with some pretty interesting characters, and a fair bit of mystery and intrigue to keep you engrossed. But personally, I don't think it's the be-all & end-all of anime.

It's a good show, is all.

[leongsh]

I'll never understand why people say RahXephon is "Eva done right." Evangelion is a deconstruction of the mecha genre that inspired it with a more introspective outlook; Rah is a celebration of the genre with a more traditionally epic narrative. Superficial similarities aside, they're radically different.
I suggest 3 reasons why - one, it's a large mecha show that was released shortly after NGE was released on R1 that has some similarities; two, they didn't understand the underlying raison d'tre of the respective shows; and three, the backlash against the frenzied interest and discussion of NGE.

[Lego]

You also had the remake of "Reideen" from Production I.G which was what "inspired" Rahxephon.

[Shirachi]

Not sure about you guys, but when someone says it's "required" I go out and make sure I don't watch it. Main reason I haven't seen, nor plan on seeing, Haruhi Suzumiya.
That's a really good way of letting other people dictate your fandom to you. Is being contrarian really so great? If you just aren't interested in the premise of the show or the animation studio or the character designs or whatnot, that's one thing. But not watching it simply because others say you should? To hell with them, make your own decision free of their influence and do what YOU want.

Yes, I'm that shallow. I honestly don't care if it is good, when someone says it's "required" because it's a "classic" I get annoyed; I don't want people telling me what to do, so it's my shallow form of spite. I haven't seen Akira, either. ;P

[something]

Yes, I'm that shallow. I honestly don't care if it is good, when someone says it's "required" because it's a "classic" I get annoyed; I don't want people telling me what to do, so it's my shallow form of spite. I haven't seen Akira, either. ;P
...So what if I told you you HAVE to watch a show, but was using reverse psychology because I *didn't* want you to watch it? :sd: You're only "spiting" yourself in the end, but as long as you're okay with that... ::shrugs::

[dragoon]

Evangelion is complex as it is historically important. Personally I would recommend it to any Anime fan, whether they'll end up liking it or not is like The Great Bear said, opinions are varied.

Whether you'll understand it or not is up to the amount of time you invest in it or think about it. It's not the type of series that they spoon-feed you. Like something said it's a very complex series; one that in my opinion requires an open mind, understanding, research, and perhaps multiple viewings.

I suggest watching it when you're in the mood for it with an open mind. Don't watch it when you're forcing yourself to, or I think you won't enjoy it as much. Well that's just my opinion anyway.

Personally I think Evangelion is almost like the Citizen Kane or Casablanca of Anime from a historic angle (technically is always arguable so I'm not going there, but a case can be made I'm sure).

Having said that though, another complex series that I actually "enjoyed" more, was RahXephon, RahXephon's cast of characters were so likable and charming... something I can not say of Evangelion. RahXephon doesn't have the historic significance however.

Everyone says it's amazing. ANN gave it an A+ both sub and dub. I got the complete platinum collection, and I'm on episode 2. I think it's ok, but not great. Does it get any better? Should I give it more of a chance?
Oh god... Given that you've said you don't like complex/confusing anime, I'd be fascinated to hear what you think about Eva when you're done. XD

Anyway, I think it's one of the best shows ever made, even if I've moved beyond it in many ways and don't know if I could rewatch it today.

Something, why do I get the feeling you're enjoying yourself. :P

But yeah if cult thought GITS SAC was complex... he ain't seen nothing yet. Eva is that x1000 or something ludicrous (in a good way). Exaggerating slightly by the way. lol

[BonifaceVIII]

Whether you'll understand it or not is up to the amount of time you invest in it or think about it.
Or, alternatively, it's deceptively simple and forcing yourself to think about it actually clouds your understanding.
It's not the type of series that they spoon-feed you.
Or it is.
Like something said it's a very complex series; one that in my opinion requires an open mind, understanding, research, and perhaps multiple viewings.
Or it has been the base of the biggest pile of bogus intellectualism and useless research ever undertaken in fandom.

You know, either/or.

[Shirachi]

...So what if I told you you HAVE to watch a show, but was using reverse psychology because I *didn't* want you to watch it? :sd: You're only "spiting" yourself in the end, but as long as you're okay with that... ::shrugs::

And I'm absolutely fine with that, yes.

[Fencedude]

Or it has been the base of the biggest pile of bogus intellectualism and useless research ever undertaken in fandom.

You know, either/or.

I wrote a paper in college on the mythological themes present in the show.

Its was complete bullshit, but it sounded good.

[Ryos]

Or it has been the base of the biggest pile of bogus intellectualism and useless research ever undertaken in fandom.

You know, either/or.

I wrote a paper in college on the mythological themes present in the show.

Its was complete bullshit, but it sounded good.

I did a paper/presentation for it in my religious studies class for some reason I don't remember. Easiest A I ever got. :p Academia's all about pointless research, so Eva fits right in there.

As far as the RahXephon/Eva similarities, my memory's a bit foggy since the last times I saw either show would be a few years ago and my backlog's too ridiculous at the moment to throw those back on the DVD player, but out of all the shows I've seen there were quite a few similar elements I can recall offhand, not including the giant robots (since like half of anime shows has one anyway :|):

- Characters. Sure they have different names/looks, but most of the characters serve virtually identical roles in both shows.

- Plot. Although the scope was a bit different, they boiled down to virtually the same thing.

- Ending. Practically a carbon copy.

I haven't seen the Reideen remake though, so it's certainly possible there are more parallels there.

[dragoon]

Whether you'll understand it or not is up to the amount of time you invest in it or think about it.
Or, alternatively, it's deceptively simple and forcing yourself to think about it actually clouds your understanding.
It's not the type of series that they spoon-feed you.Or it is.
Like something said it's a very complex series; one that in my opinion requires an open mind, understanding, research, and perhaps multiple viewings. Or it has been the base of the biggest pile of bogus intellectualism and useless research ever undertaken in fandom.

You know, either/or.

You could say that about any classical piece of work, writing, art, etc though.

[BonifaceVIII]

Indeed, which is my point.

I hate Bob Dylan, but I don't fault people for finding more than I do in his quote-end-quote "music".

[chloes_fork]

I'll never understand why people say RahXephon is "Eva done right." Evangelion is a deconstruction of the mecha genre that inspired it with a more introspective outlook; Rah is a celebration of the genre with a more traditionally epic narrative. Superficial similarities aside, they're radically different.
I suggest 3 reasons why - one, it's a large mecha show that was released shortly after NGE was released on R1 that has some similarities; two, they didn't understand the underlying raison d'tre of the respective shows; and three, the backlash against the frenzied interest and discussion of NGE.
Your third reason is the main culprit, I think, and it's a kneejerk impulse ("Me not follow trends! Me so iconoclastic!") that makes me exceedingly weary. Some things are popular and much-discussed because they deserve to be. Eva is one of them.

[DanielJr]

I can't stand the show, mainly for its zealot fanbase.

[BonifaceVIII]

I'm not even sure there are that many Evangelion "zealots" out there anymore. I think they've all turned into Evangelion apologists.

[DBoy2501]

I only recently saw the whole series for the first time when I purchased the platinum collection while it was heavily discounted on Amazon. While I enjoyed the show, I felt it didn't really live up to the hype that I'd read about on these forums and elsewhere. I'm guessing that to truly appreciate it as much as so many fans do, I would have had to view it when it was first available, amidst the anime available at that time. :shy:

One thing that really surprised me was how much I liked the ending. After reading about the numerous revisions of the ending and how the first ending angered/baffled so many of the original viewers/fans, I wasn't sure what to expect. I've watched the director's cuts included in the set, and I've Netflixed the End of Evangelion movie, but I have to say that I found the original version of the ending to be a powerful and beautiful resolution to the series. I was left disappointed by the revisions, rather than by the original.

Overall, anyone curious about this series could find far worse ways to spend their time than watching this much lauded show. It may not live up to the fanatical hype for everyone, but it's definitely worth viewing at least once IMHO. At the very least, watching it means you'll be able to follow and participate in the myriad Evangelion threads.:sweat:

[RICECM]

I didn't care for it to much. Around the last 6 episodes i got confused about the whole point of the series. Plus, the ending was:depressed:. But, I haven't watched the ova/movies that followed it, so that might clear my confusion. Also, the protagonist is a pencil necked wimp, so at times I wanted to stop watching the whole thing.

[jojo_home]

It isn't so much lauded for its entertainment value as it is for its personal voice. You may or may not agree with Anno's opinions, but these were topics he was struggling with personally around the time, and he basically inserted it into the show without any intention of disguising it as part of the story. Moreover, he doesn't really provide answers either...he's more like throwing his problems onto the screen, not telling people what they SHOULD do. And I don't say that negatively, because I find it (found it?) interesting. Too many people go into the show thinking that the people are praising it for its entertainment value (and it can be entertaining, depending on your perspective) rather than the force of its personal philosophy, which was very unusual for an anime airing on "free" TV at the time.

It also presents its material in a very retro-Euro artsy manner. People who are used to Bergman and Godard should be comfortable with the stylistic idiosyncracies here, but if you hadn't seen this kind of style before, you'd just find it confusing.

I personally like it. I'm not a nutso fan but I still admire what it tried to do.

It really depends what you look for in a show/movie.

[Njr Scrawl]

I can't stand the show, mainly for its zealot fanbase.

:P

[Doom85]

I can't stand the show, mainly for its zealot fanbase.

:P

To be honest, the Eva haters are far worse than the Eva fanboys/girls nowadays (when I say haters, I don't mean those who dislike the show, I mean those who have some issue with those who do like it).

For example, one time on a Naruto forum, some guy suddenly created a thread and said, "OMG!!! Everyone shut up about Evangelion! It's completely overrated, and why people are still talking about that piece of garbage is beyond me!"

The thing is, no one had mentioned Eva on that forum in a long time. He was acting like a complete idiot, and it's hardly the first time I've seen someone freak out if somebody even mentions Eva. Calm down, people, it's just a show, if people like it, it's not the end of the world.

[leongsh]

Too many people go into the show thinking that the people are praising it for its entertainment value (and it can be entertaining, depending on your perspective) rather than the force of its personal philosophy, which was very unusual for an anime airing on "free" TV at the time.
There's also a lot of people who watch shows that rather than watch it play out, want the show to go in the direction in how they want it to be. If the show doesn't do that, the show is crap to them. Not to mention, there are also plenty of people who apply their personal values and/or project themselves into how they would act in those situations - often times forgetting the character's make-up, own thought processes and rationale for doing certain things.

[zaldar]

Everybody in Eva has issues... that's the show's charm point. :catgirl:
I don't remember who said it or where, but "Even the fucking penguin is manic depressive" is the best way I've heard someone sum up the show. :sd:

ROFL yes that is true, didn't read through the whole thread but Eva is one of my favorite anime shows. Right up there with Now and Then and Here and There and Renmei. I am a philosopher, however, and I love the idea of a overmind that people join to become a God. Reminds me of Alpha Centauri. I also can relate to Shinji more than is probably healthy.

Lets think about it however given the way their world has evolved being Manic Depressive makes sense. I haven't seen the movies but the show ended wonderfully to me so I don't want to mess it up...

[zaldar]

Evangelion is complex as it is historically important. Personally I would recommend it to any Anime fan, whether they'll end up liking it or not is like The Great Bear said, opinions are varied.

Whether you'll understand it or not is up to the amount of time you invest in it or think about it. It's not the type of series that they spoon-feed you. Like something said it's a very complex series; one that in my opinion requires an open mind, understanding, research, and perhaps multiple viewings.

I suggest watching it when you're in the mood for it with an open mind. Don't watch it when you're forcing yourself to, or I think you won't enjoy it as much. Well that's just my opinion anyway.

Personally I think Evangelion is almost like the Citizen Kane or Casablanca of Anime from a historic angle (technically is always arguable so I'm not going there, but a case can be made I'm sure).

Having said that though, another complex series that I actually "enjoyed" more, was RahXephon, RahXephon's cast of characters were so likable and charming... something I can not say of Evangelion. RahXephon doesn't have the historic significance however.

Everyone says it's amazing. ANN gave it an A+ both sub and dub. I got the complete platinum collection, and I'm on episode 2. I think it's ok, but not great. Does it get any better? Should I give it more of a chance?
Oh god... Given that you've said you don't like complex/confusing anime, I'd be fascinated to hear what you think about Eva when you're done. XD

Anyway, I think it's one of the best shows ever made, even if I've moved beyond it in many ways and don't know if I could rewatch it today.

Something, why do I get the feeling you're enjoying yourself. :P

But yeah if cult thought GITS SAC was complex... he ain't seen nothing yet. Eva is that x1000 or something ludicrous (in a good way). Exaggerating slightly by the way. lol

Yes and then Lain is X1000000 time as complicated as EVA. I love all three of those. Along with Now and Then Here and There and Renmi (I can never spell the first word of that one right) you have my five favorite anime. After you finish EVA I would love to see your take on lain...heh.

[Njr Scrawl]

Everybody in Eva has issues... that's the show's charm point. :catgirl:
I don't remember who said it or where, but "Even the fucking penguin is manic depressive" is the best way I've heard someone sum up the show. :sd:

ROFL yes that is true, didn't read through the whole thread but Eva is one of my favorite anime shows. Right up there with Now and Then and Here and There and Renmei. I am a philosopher, however, and I love the idea of a overmind that people join to become a God. Reminds me of Alpha Centauri. I also can relate to Shinji more than is probably healthy.

Lets think about it however given the way their world has evolved being Manic Depressive makes sense. I haven't seen the movies but the show ended wonderfully to me so I don't want to mess it up...

The penguin, Pen Pen-san to critics, is not depressive. In fact he is the happiest character in the story!

In the manga Pen Pen is a lab bird Misato saved from experimentation so he has a right to be.

[never]

I'm in the "RahXephon is better" camp since it has an equally good but more coherent story (much lowrer LSD intake by the writer), better visuals, and much more likeable characters.

I'm glad I saw NGE, but I'm in no hurry to own it. I do own RahXephon.
Same here. RahXephon is EVA done right. Like comparing a jetliner to a blimp. My take on EVA is that it is great in the sense that the Hindenberg Disaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindenberg_disaster) was great. More spectacular flaming wreckage you will rarely see. But you HAVE to watch EVA at least once since it is such a landmark event. Doesn't mean you'll like it, but watching it at least once is necessary... At least the characters are memorable.....

For the record, I am not an EVA fan yet I own both the Perfect Collection + Paul Champagne LE artbox and the Platinum Complete Collection. EVA is still an important work of anime....


I think you both nailed it.

[BigPants]

Is it really that great? Yes.

Do I think it depends on when in life you are watching it though? It can. I watched it when I was 15 and confused and pissed about shit too and I thought it was amazing. If I had seen more anime or was older, I might not have thought it was so great to be honest.

[GundamWingMan]

I wouldn't say Evangelion is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it was a darn good show, even if featured Shinji Ikari, THE whiniest little punk in the history of anime. The characters were well fleshed out (even Shinji) and the story was very fascinating with plenty of edge-of-the-seat moments. To call this just another "giant robot" show as I originally thought it was would do Evangelion a disservice. That said, the ending pissed me off no end as I expected a sturm and drang sort of cataclysmic climax which never came to pass. Still, watching the series wasn't wasted time, I just wouldn't put it in the anime hall of fame if one existed.

[Njr Scrawl]

Having watched the first Rebuild movie several times, Rebuild so far is not that great at all. In fact some of what, to me, made the TV series great has been removed. I missed the stretched out uncompressed beginning with Shinji slowly assimilating into Tokyo 3 school with his classmates & NERV societies - his observations & thoughts, Misato bubblier & less clued-up (& more of her generally), and the better delicate bonding of Rei & Shinji. Also the atmosphere of Tokyo 3's everyday life, from the deliberate mis-information fed through the classroom, dramatised "fact" movies of Second Impact and slice-of-life radio & TV broadcasts.

Rebuild 1 has a few of the above but its scenes are rushed, & they appear more tips of the hat to Eva TV fans, than really made part of the whole for feel.

When more Rebuild movies are made, 1.01 will be part of a hopefully bigger better whole re-telling. At the moment, on its own, only its novelty gives it much re-watch value. Done that.

[Prede]

One word answer: YES

Seeing how I started watching this show, by seeing the LAST episode on Adult Swim, and immediately loving it, yes it's a great show, and yes it gets better. It's a slow start, but after a few episodes, it will get ALOT better. But as others have said hold on to your hat for the ending :sdsmiley: ! This is my 3rd favorite anime (right behind Fooly Cooly and Case Closed). Watching this show, a few years ago on Adult Swim, made me want the DVD. After watching all of the TV series and movies, I got into Lain, and got those DVD's. After Lain I went to another show...and so on. It was like a chain reaction. I proballly never would have seen Lain or a few other shows, if not for NGE (I looked up shows "like" NGE, and watched them etc.). Ok I'm done rambleing now, watch the rest of it, and see what you think. Oh and I do like the original ending, although End of Eva was great too.

[CGord]

I'll say the same thing the person who loaned me their NGE collection for my first veiwing said to me: "It's a fantastic series, but skip the last two episodes." :D

[Njr Scrawl]

Going straight to EoE after #24, its better story continuity to go straight to the scene that follows Shinji's visit to Asuka, i.e to where the HQ crew are discussing what might happen next, & Misato hacking into the Magi...

It will be interesting to see how seamlessly Rebuild moves from its TV story "tweak" into EoE "tweak".

[Torriate]

I have to say that with every new mediocre anime I watch, Eva increases in my estimation. When I think of "End of Evangelion" alone, it's such a work of art with the music that it brings tears to my eyes. How many animes can you really say do that?

[Fencedude]

I have to say that with every new mediocre anime I watch, Eva increases in my estimation. When I think of "End of Evangelion" alone, it's such a work of art with the music that it brings tears to my eyes. How many animes can you really say do that?

Lots.

And EVA's not on that list.

[Torriate]

I have to say that with every new mediocre anime I watch, Eva increases in my estimation. When I think of "End of Evangelion" alone, it's such a work of art with the music that it brings tears to my eyes. How many animes can you really say do that?

Lots.

And EVA's not on that list.

Why? I'm not saying that EVA is the only profound anime to ever come out, but it is on my short list of "important" works.

[Fencedude]

I have to say that with every new mediocre anime I watch, Eva increases in my estimation. When I think of "End of Evangelion" alone, it's such a work of art with the music that it brings tears to my eyes. How many animes can you really say do that?

Lots.

And EVA's not on that list.

Why? I'm not saying that EVA is the only profound anime to ever come out, but it is on my short list of "important" works.

Why should something being "important" affect whether or not it "brought a tear to my eye"?

You seem to be conflating two completely separate issues.

[Torriate]

I have to say that with every new mediocre anime I watch, Eva increases in my estimation. When I think of "End of Evangelion" alone, it's such a work of art with the music that it brings tears to my eyes. How many animes can you really say do that?

Lots.

And EVA's not on that list.

Why? I'm not saying that EVA is the only profound anime to ever come out, but it is on my short list of "important" works.

Why should something being "important" affect whether or not it "brought a tear to my eye"?

You seem to be conflating two completely separate issues.

I guess I feel that any anime that can bring a tear to my eyes has enough depth to classify as "important" in my eyes. I'm not easily moved by much.

[Fencedude]

I guess I feel that any anime that can bring a tear to my eyes has enough depth to classify as "important" in my eyes. I'm not easily moved by much.

That makes no sense.

[Torriate]

I guess I feel that any anime that can bring a tear to my eyes has enough depth to classify as "important" in my eyes. I'm not easily moved by much.

That makes no sense.

What I mean is that if a work of art can move me to tears, it has depth in my eyes. I know for you that is meaningless, but it is not to me.

[Suwako Moriya]

I have to say that with every new mediocre anime I watch, Eva increases in my estimation.

There's no doubt that a fraction of the anime I've watched since Eva have been mediocre. Granted there's also the average fraction and the awesome fraction. Truth be told, I have no idea how the exact divide is for me.

However no matter how much anime I watch, it doesn't change the fact that Eva ultimately didn't work for me. That being said, in general it's going to take more than X being "fail" to improve my opinion of Y.

[Torriate]

I have to say that with every new mediocre anime I watch, Eva increases in my estimation.

There's no doubt that a fraction of the anime I've watched since Eva have been mediocre. Granted there's also the average fraction and the awesome fraction. Truth be told, I have no idea how the exact divide is for me.

However no matter how much anime I watch, it doesn't change the fact that Eva ultimately didn't work for me. That being said, in general it's going to take more than X being "fail" to improve my opinion of Y.

I'm not saying that any new anime should be judged according to Eva. However, Eva showed what is possible in terms of storytelling in anime. It shows that the possibilities are far beyond the usual commercial cliches. So far I'm pretty torn on Code Geass, as it seems wanting to be important but falling way short.

[Fencedude]

I'm not saying that any new anime should be judged according to Eva. However, Eva showed what is possible in terms of storytelling in anime. It shows that the possibilities are far beyond the usual commercial cliches. So far I'm pretty torn on Code Geass, as it seems wanting to be important but falling way short.

ahahahaha...

...I'm too tired to discuss this right now.

I'll get back to you in the afternoon.

[Suwako Moriya]

So far I'm pretty torn on Code Geass, as it seems wanting to be important but falling way short.

In regards to Code Geass, the words "fall apart" come to mind. At least in my personal view it fell apart. Especially during the second half where I became convinced they were just making up stuff as they went along. Ultimately it ended up being average to me.

As for this whole discussion about being important. To be honest I don't really care if a title is trying to be and/or succeeds at being important. It's never been my concern. My only concern is the title succeeds at being enjoyable to me. Nothing more and nothing less.

[lesterf1020]

So far I'm pretty torn on Code Geass, as it seems wanting to be important but falling way short.


I really don't think Code Geass was ever interested in being important. Code Geass is interested in being very entertaining. Most people whether they liked it or not seem to have gotten quite a bit of entertainment out of it.

[cutliquidsnake]

Everyone says it's amazing. ANN gave it an A+ both sub and dub. I got the complete platinum collection, and I'm on episode 2. I think it's ok, but not great. Does it get any better? Should I give it more of a chance?
Oh god... Given that you've said you don't like complex/confusing anime, I'd be fascinated to hear what you think about Eva when you're done. XD

Anyway, I think it's one of the best shows ever made, even if I've moved beyond it in many ways and don't know if I could rewatch it today.

Oh wow, this topic is still alive? O_o

Anyways, I finished it and loved it. I felt I could relate to Shinji. I did a lot of research on it too.

[Orihimes_Boyfriend]

Looks like we have another convert to the Church of Evangelion. :P

Wow if you can relate to Shinji then you must be really messed up. :bigsmile: (KIDDING)

[Mr. Nail Bat]

What I mean is that if a work of art can move me to tears, it has depth in my eyes. I know for you that is meaningless, but it is not to me.

But mediocre works of art can manipulate our emotions.

[Torriate]

What I mean is that if a work of art can move me to tears, it has depth in my eyes. I know for you that is meaningless, but it is not to me.

But mediocre works of art can manipulate our emotions.

But EVA is not a mediocre work of art.

[kakugo]

The concept of a film's "importance" is wither or not it changes the status-quoe. For instance, Fritz the Cat is important because it introduced American cartoonists to the notion that you could make a cartoon for adults rather than children and still find an audience. That doesn't inherently mean Fritz the Cat is a good film, just that it existing made an impact on animated films, and should thus be considered an important milestone in the road of modern cinema.

Neon Genesis Evangelion is important in that it pushed the boundaries of what was acceptable - both in theme, and content - as an anime TV series. The fusion of typical shonen escapist entertainment, difficult Freudian psychological examination, and shockingly minimalist artistic expression between bouts of theatrical quality animation were all relatively unheard of in an animated series for a young male audience, and without Evangelion we wouldn't have seen a shift in TV series' being more complicated, more esoteric, more violent, and more uncomfortably human, despite their fantastic subject matter.

Shinji Ikari is himself important for being the first 14 year old boy in anime to be shoved into a robot, told to kill a monster, and then be thoroughly freaked out by the whole thing, shrugging off decades of the do-or-die archetypes found in titles like Mazinger Z and Yuusha Raidin, who pilot their giant mecha out of a burning desire for justice or revenge, or titles in the Gundam mold in which the Mobile Suit is little more than a means to an end for soldiers (often a bit older) to carry out their tragic warfare in a larger than life fashion. Shinji, by comparison, is just a normal shell shocked kid with some emotional baggage, who's dropped into a strange and frightening world in which he has to be at war with an inhuman enemy. It created a level of believability in a genre founded on fantasy, and this would only become more common in the years that followed. The final 6 episodes of the series remain a landmark, not only for their narrative and animation quality, but because of the themes explored and the unique way in which they're presented to an audience.

Shows like Berserk, Trigun, Vampire Princess Miyu and Devilman Lady would present much darker themes and more violent footage than typifies pre-Evangelion TV titles. Evangelion certainly wasn't alone in pushing these boundaries: equally mold-breaking (but very different) titles like Revolutionary Utena and Ghost in the Shell were all produced at around the same time frame, and must be given due credit for affecting conventions in their own right. Mecha anime certainly isn't all trying to be the next Evangelion, but I think that the violent and sometimes blatantly ironic rejections of anime conventions in Evangelion helped to free future titles from the general confines the genre had already found in the 70s and 80s.

The final two controversial TV episodes, while certainly rarely mimicked, proved that a popular series could literally throw any and all expectations right into the bin and still be a wildly successful and profitable endeavor, which as likely granted more modern productions with a bit more leeway to be "creative" than we may have seen in the early 90s and prior. (Not that all productions know what to do with that freedom, of course...)

As was brought up earlier, Evangelion and RahXephon are often compared (and not without reason). The question I have is would RahXephon even exist, without Evangelion having drastically changed the scope of TV mecha anime in the first place? That sums up the concept of "importance" versus "quality" about as well as I'm capable of.

Evangelion is important, all right, but not because I happen to think it's a damn good show. The very fact that people are still watching and talking about Evangelion today doesn't hurt its' chances of being a good title, I might add. :)

[Prede]

If you haven't seen the last few episodes of NGE, you haven't seen anything. Watch the entire thing, before judgeing it. This show truly deserves the title of "masterpiece". I know people throw that word around a lot, but this really is a great series. The begining is meant to be a little tame, but just wait!