Aquarion movie, Gin-iro no Kami no Agito (Origin: Spirits of the Past) on Blu-ray in Japan

[Buster Darkwings]

http://www.animate-shop.jp/ws/commodity_param/ctc/bd/shc/0/cmc/4093818/backURL/http%28++www.animate-shop.jp+ws+main
http://www.animate-shop.jp/ws/commodity_param/ctc/bd/shc/0/cmc/4093819/backURL/http(++www.animate-shop.jp+ws+main

Both released on 12/5 for 8,190 yen each.

So now Media Factory will be releasing Blu-rays. I'm not particularly interested in buying these, although I'll probably rent them whenever the rental versions come out.

No idea about English subs/dub, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

[Levon]

I'd only buy the cheaper US Blu-ray versions of these films.

[zipCode]

Hmm, nice. Gin'iro at least will make a great demo disc.

[Mazinkaizer]

Are those the compilation movie & OVA ? My guess is that they'll be released by Funi sooner or later.

[Quarkboy]

Are those the compilation movie & OVA ? My guess is that they'll be released by Funi sooner or later.

I've got to wonder if they are being released BECAUSE of funi.

For example, we know that Funi is pushing for blu-ray releases, and Japan is scared to death of reverse importation. So maybe they compromised by saying "yes, sure you can release these on blu-ray, but we want to release in Japan first. Thanks for the "incentive" you sent us, by the way."

I just find it a bit strange that both things that this company launch with on blu-ray happen to be funi licenses. And they aren't exactly the biggest films either.

[Danime]

I'm already gagging for Agito's Silver Hair on Blu-ray. I bought the DVD LE several months back and it's one of the best transfers I've ever seen on a DVD, so I'm holding HUGE expectations for this. This is going to be PURE beauty.

Just make it simultaneous, Funi! It's a Gonzo anime, GDH could be persuaded I bet!

And Aquarion, another Funi title, but probably less likely to be simultaneous (which is impossible anyway, so this is negative prospects).

Just change already, Japan. ARGH!

Not that it's at all legal - I think it'd be VERY cool if someone made a hack disc that makes it so you can download subtitles onto your PS3/Blu-ray player, pop in your unsubtitled disc and hey presto you've got subs! I'd actually do that.

[Mazinkaizer]

Just change already, Japan. ARGH!

Not that it's at all legal - I think it'd be VERY cool if someone made a hack disc that makes it so you can download subtitles onto your PS3/Blu-ray player, pop in your unsubtitled disc and hey presto you've got subs! I'd actually do that.

These days, nothing is impossible. If Japanese companies continue to stay behind time then someone else will take the initiative....legally or not. I could be wrong but these are my thoughts.

[LOUiE]

Not that it's at all legal - I think it'd be VERY cool if someone made a hack disc that makes it so you can download subtitles onto your PS3/Blu-ray player, pop in your unsubtitled disc and hey presto you've got subs! I'd actually do that.
If I could buy a Japanese disc w/o subs and stick it in the PS3 and have a subtitle track play with the movie, I'd definitely start doing that. I'd probably pick up Macross Frontier and Zero first.

[Danime]

The scope is there, Blu-ray being an online format and all. (Likewise with the hardware)

[Quarkboy]

Hmm, I suppose it might be possible to create a blu-ray that works like a sort of boot disk:

You load up the boot -blu-ray, it asks you to select a sub file on your hard drive to play, then prompts you to remove the disc and insert the movie you want to play with subs, and plays the linked track on the blu-ray overlaying the subs you preloaded...

I'm not really sure that it's possible for a blu-ray program to prompt a disc eject, but I suppose it could be in there in case there was a movie that spanned two discs and they wanted somewhat more seemless playback (i.e. a "please insert disc 2" prompt instead of simply falling back to the main menu).

[Danime]

I'm not really sure that it's possible for a blu-ray program to prompt a disc eject, but I suppose it could be in there in case there was a movie that spanned two discs and they wanted somewhat more seemless playback (i.e. a "please insert disc 2" prompt instead of simply falling back to the main menu).

I'm 99% sure it's possible. There are Gamecube, PS1 (not sure about PS2) games that span 2 or more discs with this feature. (Final Fantasy games on PS1, Tales of Symphonia, Baten Kaitos on GC (+ more probably)).

[Skywise]

I'm 99% sure it's possible.

I'm 99% sure it's not possible at the moment. The problem is that all content is signed, so if you want to do something like add subs you need to first crack that.

[Danime]

I'm 99% sure it's possible.

I'm 99% sure it's not possible at the moment.

If we're talking about the disc swapping still (I'm guessing the next sentence was in response to other things), that might be the reason why the latest Solid Snake game didn't get 2 discs, when apparently a dual layer disc was not big enough to hold the whole game (and it was condensed down apparently). That really sucks.

[Quarkboy]

I'm 99% sure it's possible.

I'm 99% sure it's not possible at the moment. The problem is that all content is signed, so if you want to do something like add subs you need to first crack that.

No need to crack the signature. alpha-blended overlay is part of the blu-ray specs. You'd just need to program playing 2 streams at once instead of mucking with the transport stream of the original video.
Or perhaps even that isn't neccesary. I think that there's a built in rasterizer to the specs (not sure if players are compatible with it) and you could probably load the subs into memory and write a overlay program taht displays them on the video at the right time (similar to how the pop-up menu works, except based on the time in the video stream).

[Skywise]

If we're talking about the disc swapping still (I'm guessing the next sentence was in response to other things), that might be the reason why the latest Solid Snake game didn't get 2 discs, when apparently a dual layer disc was not big enough to hold the whole game (and it was condensed down apparently). That really sucks.

There's nothing stopping a game maker from using multiple discs, or even a studio. What I was referring to was it being impossible for a user to create a subtitles for playback using original BDs.

Incidentally it turns out the whole thing about MGS needing a full BD to hold everything was BS. Iirc the game took up about 39GB, and could easily have fit the Japanese language track if they'd wanted to.

[Skywise]

No need to crack the signature. alpha-blended overlay is part of the blu-ray specs.

You need to crack the signature if you want to add your own subs to existing discs. Studios already have the signature so what they do is they just add the substream along with a modified main menu to add the extra sub track. That allows you to play it on any player that's 1.1 compatible.

[Danime]

Aquarion is listed (http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=ZMXZ-4340) on CDJapan now, with some extra info:

"Special Features: HD remake of "Sosei Aquarion Episode 27" and audio commentary"

So I'm guessing this is CDJapan mistranslating/getting it wrong, or the entire episode has been reanimated into HD?

If the latter is so, then there's hope for other shows to get reanimated into HD, I suppose.

I only watched the original series on fansub a long time ago, and there were only 26 episodes, so maybe CDJapan's "episode 27" is just the OVA series?

Hmm.

But yeah, every time I see a Blu-ray coming out in Japan of a show I've seen and loved, I'm going to just get so angry each time. The feeling of being absolutely powerless to change some stupid ignorant Japanese businessmen's mind on this subject is just the worst.

I want my orgasmic mecha transformations now!

[Mazinkaizer]

But yeah, every time I see a Blu-ray coming out in Japan of a show I've seen and loved, I'm going to just get so angry each time. The feeling of being absolutely powerless to change some stupid ignorant Japanese businessmen's mind on this subject is just the worst.



If i was to pass a message to them it would be Char's phrase from Zeta "Atarashi Jedai tskurno wa Roujin De wa Nai". The old ones (old geezers) don't create the new age ! :bigsmile:

I think that since BV already took the initiate with some titles, it will continue to grow. And sooner or later other companies will probably be attracted by the increased sales for BV's titles and follow their steps...well considering that subs don't cost or take much space (if any) anyway.

[gundamseed]

If we're talking about the disc swapping still (I'm guessing the next sentence was in response to other things), that might be the reason why the latest Solid Snake game didn't get 2 discs, when apparently a dual layer disc was not big enough to hold the whole game (and it was condensed down apparently). That really sucks.

There's nothing stopping a game maker from using multiple discs, or even a studio. What I was referring to was it being impossible for a user to create a subtitles for playback using original BDs.

Incidentally it turns out the whole thing about MGS needing a full BD to hold everything was BS. Iirc the game took up about 39GB, and could easily have fit the Japanese language track if they'd wanted to.

From what i understand the audio in MGS4 is over 10gbs(played mgs 4 myself there's over 8 hours of audio) plus they have to add Japanese version lip sync since diff for that version ,so it not so cut and dry .

[Skywise]

Since when does anyone care about lip synch? They certainly had no problems adding French and Spanish. Even at over 8 hours of audio there would be no problem fitting it in 10GB of space - you can either mix the dub and music+SFX in realtime or just compress it. The decision not to include a Japanese track was not technical but instead a deliberate marketing choice.

[Mazinkaizer]

The decision not to include a Japanese track was not technical but instead a deliberate marketing choice.

It was clearly so since it was first annuanced before the game's release. And to add to that, they were kind to include different subs for the English version except for the JP, and the opposite for the Japanese release where it had nothing but the JP sub. This way Japanese who wants to listen to the English voices (and there is a decent number of JP MGS fans who do) have to buy (aka: 2nd buy) the US/European version, and vice versa for the US/European fans who wants to listens to the JP voices.

I hope that we won't experience this crap with the next MGS :beat: but i guess it depends mostly on how much the Japanese business men's mentality will change/evolve regarding the BD by then ?

[Shiroi Hane]

Just thought I'd say I noticed Gin-iro come up on the Yes Asia RSS feeds:
http://www.yesasia.com/global/1011793586-0-0-0-en/info.html
Says it is 1080p and DD 5.1
CDJapan:
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=ZMXZ-4369
says it has a 32-page booklet and no subs.

[Danime]

Just thought I'd say I noticed Gin-iro come up on the Yes Asia RSS feeds:
http://www.yesasia.com/global/1011793586-0-0-0-en/info.html
Says it is 1080p and DD 5.1
CDJapan:
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=ZMXZ-4369
says it has a 32-page booklet and no subs.

Eugh no subs. It's not surprising, but it's still quite disappointing that Japanese companies involved in anime distribution/production -still- aren't changing.

I love this film to bits. I hope Funimation get the Blu-ray/HD rights to this film ASAP, if not already.

[AUSTIN316]

I really don't understand why people expect JAPANESE Blu-ray releases intended solely for the Japanese market to contain English subs and/or dubs. They do not care if the US and Japan are the same region, they are making the product for their market and their market only. All this whinging and whining everytime a new BD is announced with no subs is getting old. If you want to buy Japanese products, go and study Japanese.

If a title is made in conjunction with an overseas release that is a different story. Even if funimation owns these licenses, it does not mean they will share the BD encodes with the Japanese company like BV and Bandai Ent. do and as such, will not need to contain English anything.

[KKita]

Just thought I'd say I noticed Gin-iro come up on the Yes Asia RSS feeds:
http://www.yesasia.com/global/101179...0-en/info.html
Says it is 1080p and DD 5.1

According to a Japanese official site and the BD Package, TrueHD 5.1ch and LPCM 2ch (same as Aquerion) seems to be correct.
http://www.mediafactory.co.jp/anime/gin-iro/

[Terence]

I really don't understand why people expect JAPANESE Blu-ray releases intended solely for the Japanese market to contain English subs and/or dubs. They do not care if the US and Japan are the same region, they are making the product for their market and their market only. All this whinging and whining everytime a new BD is announced with no subs is getting old. If you want to buy Japanese products, go and study Japanese.

If a title is made in conjunction with an overseas release that is a different story. Even if funimation owns these licenses, it does not mean they will share the BD encodes with the Japanese company like BV and Bandai Ent. do and as such, will not need to contain English anything.
Yes, I am thinking the same as you. I really don't understand why people always think that the U.S./European market is so important to Japanese while most of the Japanese domestic companies do not care and do not want to do any business outside Japan. Most of the Japanese business website never export any product outside Japan.

[AUSTIN316]

The decision not to include a Japanese track was not technical but instead a deliberate marketing choice.

It was clearly so since it was first annuanced before the game's release. And to add to that, they were kind to include different subs for the English version except for the JP, and the opposite for the Japanese release where it had nothing but the JP sub. This way Japanese who wants to listen to the English voices (and there is a decent number of JP MGS fans who do) have to buy (aka: 2nd buy) the US/European version, and vice versa for the US/European fans who wants to listens to the JP voices.

I hope that we won't experience this crap with the next MGS :beat: but i guess it depends mostly on how much the Japanese business men's mentality will change/evolve regarding the BD by then ?

Damn right it was a marketing choice. The rubbish about about both tracks not fitting was exactly that, rubbish. I am quite sure that Konami will eventually release a "Integral/Substance/Subsistence" style extended version in Japan with the English dub as they always have and THAT is the only reason the game did not contain both tracks. The only re-release in Japan that did not contain the English dub and text was MGS3: Subsistence, I have no idea why. Maybe Portable Ops+ did not have it either, I don't know cause I don't own it.

As someone whom only buys Japanese releases for my Jp PS3, I actually bought the Asian English version as well as the Jp SE so I could experience both tracks. I was most impressed that the lip synch was different for each version but that is no reason to not include both tracks on the same disc. It is about time Western nations got to experience the sublime Japanese voice cast.

Also, don't be so quick to blame Japan and its "old marketing men" for the decision, it was Ryan Paton that announced the decision and I am sure Konami US had a hand in it. Just as the English version can be released in Japan, the extended edition can also contain the Jp track in Western countries.

[Shiroi Hane]

I really don't understand why people expect JAPANESE Blu-ray releases intended solely for the Japanese market to contain English subs and/or dubs. They do not care if the US and Japan are the same region, they are making the product for their market and their market only. All this whinging and whining everytime a new BD is announced with no subs is getting old. If you want to buy Japanese products, go and study Japanese.

If a title is made in conjunction with an overseas release that is a different story. Even if funimation owns these licenses, it does not mean they will share the BD encodes with the Japanese company like BV and Bandai Ent. do and as such, will not need to contain English anything.
Yes, I am thinking the same as you. I really don't understand why people always think that the U.S./European market is so important to Japanese while most of the Japanese domestic companies do not care and do not want to do any business outside Japan. Most of the Japanese business website never export any product outside Japan.
Initial DVDs releases are unlikely to have english subs and almost never have an English dub as none have been made at that point. Later Blu-Ray re-releases have the potential to include these as they already exist, Utawarerumono is a case in point. I don't know whether or not this will generate enough extra sales to make it worthwhile and I don't care - I would like to see subs on Japanese discs that are not available elsewhere and I feel justified in being disappointed that they are not present when they could have been.

As for Japanese companies not caring about the American market.. to quote myself elsewhere

For the record, here's some quotes from Jonathan Clements' column in Newtype (RIP) - December '07 and Jan '08 respectively:
With profit margins constricting in Japan itself, producers and publishers become more amenable to foreign sales. Anime and manga abroad, particularly in America, is another side-effect of the boom and bust, and a generation later, the fact that the American market plays such a great part in Japanese business decisions is at leasat in part a result of deals done in the Bubble period.
But what if the American economy starts to slump...? Who's going to pay for anime then?
"Twelve years ago," I say, "an anime production producer told me that the foreign market as worth only 10 percent of a Japanese company's interest. Can you put a number on it now?"
"Sure," says Sam. "It's 50 percent of our business. Haf of our plans, half of our selections, are geared directly toward foreign makets, specifically America. And it's worth 50 pecent of our profits."
There's your tipping point. If Sam's numbers are repeated across the other companies, modern anime is only half-conceived with a Japanese audience in mind. There's still domestic market, but you can expect to see increasing numbers of anime made for foreigners.

[AUSTIN316]

Of course they care about licensing titles out but they do not care about going to the trouble and cost of releasing a title with English subs. As I said, I am sure they think that it is up to US companies to do that when and if they license the title. Who knows, maybe they think having a sub track on something not available outside Japan will reduce the prospect of it being licensed? I mean, it would be extremely easy for companies to go to any old fansub group out there and get subs to put on their discs. They do not do that so there has to be reasons.

Utawarerumono is probably one of those cases where the Jp company owns the dub/sub, so they chose to use it. The same has happened for many titles in the past such as many of CPM's old titles. Releases such as Demon City Shinjuku and Wind of Amnesia have always had the dub included on LD and DVD. Same for some of Streamline's dubs.

I still personally think it comes down to the fact that they make discs for Japan only and the fact that someone in an English speaking country MAY buy it does not register with them. With the amount of Americans that say stuff like "I would never pay Japanese prices for my anime!" can you blame them? They will be thinking that Americans will just wait for a cheap US release or they will download it. Those are the simple facts as I see them.

[Skywise]

If Sam's numbers are repeated across the other companies, modern anime is only half-conceived with a Japanese audience in mind.

It's not. I don't know what company he represents, but for Bandai Visual licensing revenue accounted for about 20% two years ago. I doubt that's climbed to anything like 50% since. It's still a significant figure though, which is why they've been so aggressive, but it does makes me wonder if the other JP companies have less. Licensing costs have been going down since the peak in 2004, so it wouldn't surprise me.