Kaleido Star, various thoughts

[something]

*******This post is about part 1, episodes 1-26. Spoilers accordingly.*******

I'd watched this years ago with a friend and liked it, but we sort of did it in disconnected chunks. I also tend to get more out of a show when watching it by myself. But I really liked it at the time, enough to buy the thinpak eventually, and then the New Wings thinpak.

To start: this is easily one of Gonzo's best. Despite liking it the first time, I liked it so much more on my second watch through. I watched 20 episodes last night and the last 6 just now. Getting it all in one chunk really helped. I'd say Kaleido Star, so far, easily joins Kiddy Grade, Gankutsuou, Chrono Crusade and Strike Witches as Gonzo's top tier of productions. And of course it's another fantastic success from Sato Junichi, alongside Princess Tutu and Aria. ANN is listing Hiraike Yoshimasa as director for season two - is that in conjunction with Sato? So is my assumption, anyway. He apparently did Sketchbook, so good news there. And speaking of him and Gonzo, he's listed as director for Solty Rei, the collection for which arrived yesterday, so I'll be watching that at some point.

General comments

There were only two episodes in the entire first two cour that fell flat for me - Jonathan's intro and Anna's father. I hate animals, and Anna is a good supporting character but doesn't look good in the spotlight. Everything else was spot-on for the most part, with the vast majority of episodes revolving around actual shows going on at Kaleido Stage, with little in the way of irrelevant one-offs or "filler-like" material.

Character development was key, especially for Layla, who made an amazing (Edit: damnit, I swore I'd make this post without using that word, after seeing it every episode title!) transition over the course of the series. Sora developed too, but that wasn't as important a part of her character because she started out so damn awesome to begin with. Everyone else was a biiiiiitch at first (except, like, Policeman Jerry and Ken). Even Anna and Mia were snippy at first, which I'd forgotten, though it was for less than an episode.

One thing I'd forgotten is how fantastic the animation is. We don't suffer from Gonzo's addiction to awful CG here. There's some, but it never gets in the way of the important things. Instead we get fluid action and really nice effects, characters that stay on model, and just a lot of win all around. One early example that stuck out was Rosetta's first performance. You hear the characters talk about how it's perfect but not exciting or moving, and the animation actually conveys that exact feeling very, very well. The look on Rosetta's face as she performs is spot on, and if you compare it to her later performances you can absolutely see the difference.

The voice work is wonderful, of course. I always love when I go back and watch or rewatch a show after becoming acquainted with a seiyuu somewhere else in the meantime. In this case, I had my love for Hirohashi Ryou deepened by hearing her as Sora. She'll always be Alice Carroll first and foremost for me, but hearing her in anything is a treat. And she shows great range too, because Alice and Sora (and Clannad's Kyou for that matter) are very different characters that require very different types of acting, and she nails them both masterfully. Then another Undine reappears, as Ohara Sayaka voices Layla. And of course Mizuhashi Kaori, who voices Rosetta and the wonderful, wonderful Ai. <3 Probably the most amusing Aria-KS seiyuu connection is Nishimura Chinami as Mia... and Aria Pokoteng. :sd:

Oh, and the absolutely obligatory "lol Koyasu Takehito". The perfect Fool.

Favorite moments

Some of my favorite moments from a show that made me tear up way too much:

- Rosetta and Sora's diabolo battle was exciting as hell. Easily one of my favorite performances of the first half of the show, but what made it one of my favorite scenes, period, was when Rosetta jumps on Sora, hugs her, and kisses her on the cheek. Oh my lord, I could have died. Died! I still think part of my mind is off in its happy place mentally rewinding that scene over and over (hell, I watched it five times before moving on). Sora x Rosetta yessss!

- The first icebreaker with Layla was also one of the best examples of Sora sticking her nose into others' business, as only she can. That was the birthday episode, and I loved how Layla eventually stopped being a douche and just accepted the cake. Probably my second favorite example of Sora being nosy is when she was bouncing around Kalos' office trying to trick him into broadcasting his true feelings to Sarah. Magical Bunny!

- The whole Sora-Layla relationship progressed at an extremely satisfying pace, neither too abrupt nor too drawn out. It took place in well thought out stages from "MURI MURI MURI! Go back to Japan!" to "Work harder damnit!" to "I want to perform on that stage with you no matter what!" The pivotal event in that second stage was the swinging pirate ship tightrope battle. Watching them battle it out over the ocean in the rain and then do the same on stage was great, and it brought them much closer together. Sora x Layla yessss!

- I loved the unbelievably sweet to the nth degree interaction between Sora and her parents when she found out her mother was pregnant. Generally I'm not into that kind of storyline, but it was Sora, so it was good. Sora <3

- Layla's special ops maid. Need more of her. But less of Layla's creepy gimp suit. Anyway, I really liked seeing everyone get together and try to start their own troupe after Yuri's coup. Sure it followed the typical story progression where the protagonist arrives in a new place; works to fit in; becomes accepted; suddenly loses that place; with the cast is scattered, everyone comes back together and realizes that that place is "where they belong"; and then they take that place back. But it's still awesome anyway. KS did it well.

- The LEGENDARY GREAT MANEUVER! Despite being a horribly awkward phrase to read nineteen times an episode, the actual reward for hearing maboroshi no oowaza over and over and over was so very worth it. Absolutely gorgeous, even if they had to turn off gravity for the sake of the story. =P As beautiful as it was, I couldn't help but think of Tomoyo's introduction in Clannad - you know, the difference between "dramatic anime time" and the time the actual events would have taken. :sd: But shit man, it was すごい and quite emotionally powerful to watch, with the actual event and the aftermath being a perfect, perfect way to end the first half. When you build up anticipation for a special move in this sort of show, it's really, really easy to disappoint the audience with something that, well, isn't really that unique. Kaleido Star, with the help of a bit of suspension of disbelief, had no problem delivering everything it promised. Now I just wonder if Layla is truly out of commission as an acrobat, or if it's just temporary. Either way, Layla is the "mentor" character in this show, and they almost never make it to the end - but at least she's not dead! :sd: Because that's her role, they need her to step aside for a little while so Sora can face her part two rivals and become the Kaleido Star.

- As a whole, the fact that they didn't overdo the "plucky heroine is an outcast" storyline helped a lot. I always dislike the illogical degree of bullying that characters like this face, and the early episodes of the show annoyed me from time to time because of that. But before long it was only really Charlotte and -poi girl who were paying that role, and they were never ones to be taken seriously, so I wasn't too bothered by it. Unfortunately what I've heard about the this issue with the new characters in the second half makes me really hesitant, but of course I'm going to watch it anyway. I just hope it's not as bad/excessive as I've heard.

So much for keeping this short, and I didn't even do a character rundown either (for example, I didn't get to say how much I loooove Mia, tied for my favorite member of the secondary cast with Rosetta)... I'll leave that for after the second half.

[EmperorBrandon]

And of course it's another fantastic success from Sato Junichi, alongside Princess Tutu and Aria. ANN is listing Hiraike Yoshimasa as director for season two - is that in conjunction with Sato? So is my assumption, anyway. He apparently did Sketchbook, so good news there.

Hiraike was the assistant director in the first season and got to be credited as director in the second season (so he was there from the beginning). There is an interview mentioning this on one of the New Wings disc - I'm sketchy on the details, but I think Sato was involved with the show all the way to the end (EDIT: Looking it up, Sato is credited as "Director" in New Wings - both him and Hiraike are jointly, I guess). I think it may be similar to how on many of the recent shows Sato is a "Chief Director", while someone else is credited as "Director". For instance, Shogo Koumoto is director of Princess Tutu and Fushigiboshi no Futagohime, Kiyoko Sayama is director of Pretear, and Yusuke Yamamoto is director of Sgt. Frog.

[The Great Bear]

- The whole Sora-Layla relationship progressed at an extremely satisfying pace, neither too abrupt nor too drawn out. It took place in well thought out stages from "MURI MURI MURI! Go back to Japan!" to "Work harder damnit!" to "I want to perform on that stage with you no matter what!" The pivotal event in that second stage was the swinging pirate ship tightrope battle. Watching them battle it out over the ocean in the rain and then do the same on stage was great, and it brought them much closer together.

This was something I agree was very well handled in the show. Sometimes, abrupt changes seem just that: abrupt. Here, it did flow much more naturally than happens in many other shows.

Overall, this was a show I really enjoyed after holding off from seeing it for a rather long time.

[Nemo_N]

The second season is much "harsher", but ends up delivering later on, particularly the ending. Just don't despair. Most people dislike it or just don't like it as much as the first season, but I loved it anyway.

And yes, the Sora x Rosetta kiss is enough to make someone go into cardiac arrest; it has been burn into my brain since the first time I watched it.

Gonzo was in top form with this one, and whatever flaws the show has, they just can't ruin it.

And maybe I should start watching Strike Witches (Kanokon left me with a bad taste in the mouth about fan service shows, which I thought no show could ever do).

[Randall Miyashiro]

This series is hands down my favorite shojo series. I love Sora's balanced success and failure rates unlike many sports anime where the protagonist seems indestructible. This really kept me on the edge of my seat throughout the series.

My favorite stretch of episodes are the ones where Yuri takes over the Stage. I also really like the episodes in New Wings where Sora goes to Paris and teams up with Yuri as well. The ending of the Paris arc and the New Years in Japan episodes are some of the most moving moments in anime.

I find Sora's ability to make friends out of the bitterest enemies one of the best parts of the series. I really wish I knew more people like her.

My least favorite part of the series is Fool who just irritated me however I enjoyed Jonathan for comic relief.

Oddly enough I watched both Princess Tutu and Pretear in the hopes of seeing if either of these series are as good as Kaleido Star. Sadly enough I found both very disappointing and wonder if the creator will ever come up with another series that I like this much.

[GundamWingMan]

I've never been a fan of the circus, so it was with some skepticism that I watched the first episode of Kaleido Star which was included on one of those free DVD that came with an issue of the late, lamented Newtype USA, I was floored after watching it and went out to collect the series which I thought was absolutely delightful.

Beyond the amazing Cirque du Soleil like acrobatics, the real drawing power of KS were its characters, most notably, Sora Naegino, perhaps THE spunkiest heroine I've ever seen in anime as she travels halfway around the world from Japan with nothing but a suitcase and her dream of becoming a member of Kaleido Stage while dealing almost constantly with her insecurities, not to mention having to impress her no-nonsense boss and Layla Hamilton, the witchy star of the Stage who's cold exterior Sora eventually melts as they become partners. All in all, a brilliant series I enjoyed watching.

Oh, yeah, while this is just my opinion, I loved Fool who I thought was a cool character.

[ndm]

Unfortunately what I've heard about the this issue with the new characters in the second half makes me really hesitant, but of course I'm going to watch it anyway. I just hope it's not as bad/excessive as I've heard.

Kaleido Star is my number 1 favourite show and I could watch it over and over again, and I actually like the second season even more than the first. I'll admit I usually skip the first two or three episodes of season 2 when rewatching because the new characters come off as unpleasant at first, but once the story gets underway and the Kaleido magic kicks in again it's great. :)

[ndm]

This series is hands down my favorite shojo series.

For the record, I'm pretty sure this isn't actually a shoujo series, but I won't argue it since it's not worth fighting over. :)

[Spirit Of The Stage]

What? You honestly thought I wouldn't post here? :P

There's no real point to me gushing over the series again as I've done it a million times before anyway, but simply put, yes, everything you said something was pretty much nailed on and I thank you for it.

Oh, and AT LAST! MORE PEOPLE SEE WHY I SHIP SORA/ROSE? :P Rosetta becomes a psuedo-glomp machine for Sora in Season 2 and the first OVA...she turned from brat into adorable in one episode and like something is pretty much my fave character aside from Miss Naegino herself (I'd say Sora - Rosetta - Layla - Mia as absolutely awesome and characters like Anna, Ken, Jerry, Sarah, Marion, Fool have their incredibly good moments so they're just simply awesome...:P)

[Fudce]

This series is hands down my favorite shojo series.

For the record, I'm pretty sure this isn't actually a shoujo series, but I won't argue it since it's not worth fighting over. :)

Technically, it's shounen.



There are very few characters in Kaleido Star that I actually dislike, and overall the series is just fantastic. It's amongst my top ten for a reason.

[DKL]

While I haven't read Disarm's opening post yet (I'll get to it), let me just say this:

All the hate on the 2nd season feels kinda weird given that it essentially

recycles the first season's formula (make a character seem unlikable, explore the character, have the character lighten up), but prolongs it over a longer period of time...

But, what happens is that the payoff is better like this given that there feels like there was more detail explored into what makes these people douchebags and it's like...

When they eventually do lighten up, you feel rewarded.

[EmperorBrandon]

I kind of agree with that, DKL. I think people are somewhat more disappointed with it in the second series just because it happens after the events of the first series With all that happened there, you expect Sora on top or near the top, but the second series immediately casts doubt on that. May is pretty mean, but I actually got to liking her sooner than others did maybe. Being cute and having an awesome voice (in either language) helps, too. :)

Anyway, this thread is bringing up lots of great memories. Probably need to keep a KStar marathon in mind since it's one I may want to revisit soon.

[dragoon]

The second season is much "harsher", but ends up delivering later on, particularly the ending. Just don't despair. Most people dislike it or just don't like it as much as the first season, but I loved it anyway.

I was about to ask about this aspect... of how was season 2?

I saw season 1 two years ago and loved every second of it. After a long time coming - I finally got both thinpaks on the way and can't wait to finally see season 2... after rewatching season 1 that is. :sdsmiley:

[Keith Palmer]

I started off watching the first-season set of this series with a sort of "I've seen lots of recommendations, but I wonder how I'll react to 'stretching my horizons' anyway" mood... but pretty much from the start, I was enjoying Kaleido Star. Now, perhaps there weren't as many "grab hold of your mind" moments for me as some in this thread seem to have experienced, but it was still a good experience. It took me a little while to get around to the second-season set, and again I was wondering how I'd react, but I found the overall arc of it pretty satisfying as well.

[something]

Addressing comments thus far:

[director stuff]
They really just need to drop all the confusing names and assign someone as "Send praise/hate to this individual" so we know who to credit... or lynch =P

I'll admit I usually skip the first two or three episodes of season 2 when rewatching because the new characters come off as unpleasant at first, but once the story gets underway and the Kaleido magic kicks in again it's great. :)
I'll get into detail here when I follow up with my post on eps 27-36, but yeah I can see how rewatching those might feel like a bit of a chore. Speaking of skipping episodes though, I passed on the two recap episodes - did I miss anything?

This series is hands down my favorite shojo series.For the record, I'm pretty sure this isn't actually a shoujo series, but I won't argue it since it's not worth fighting over. :)
Seems like it's anime original so it's tough to apply the 'technical' definition either way, although the later manga about Yume apparently ran in Shounen Fang. I like to think of KS as a remarkably gender neutral show.

Oh, and AT LAST! MORE PEOPLE SEE WHY I SHIP SORA/ROSE? :P
To repeat (and expand on) what I said to you in PM - the only problem with Sora x Rosetta is that I can't tell if I want it more than Sora x Layla. They're both so wonderful in different ways. Sora falling in love with the talented onee-sama... or Sora being the talented onee-sama. I can't decide which is hotter!

I definitely think I've got a major thing for the "onee-sama" relationship, with an older girl falling in love with a younger girl and vice versa (my recent viewing of Simoun totally solidified this in a relatively extreme way). So it could go either way, but Rosetta would get the slight advantage there since there's more notable difference between her and Sora than Sora and Layla. Then again, when you really see Sora and Layla standing next to each other there's quite a difference, and oh yes I like it very much.

...This is exactly why threesomes were invented.

My favorite characters from part 1 were yours - Sora, Layla, Rosetta, Mia. It's pretty depressing how little time Rosetta got in the first half. She shows up in an early episode and then not again until like 20, gah. The second half is beginning to correct this but... well that's for next post.

[EmperorBrandon]

Speaking of skipping episodes though, I passed on the two recap episodes - did I miss anything?

As far as I can recall, they were pure recap episodes. So I don't think you missed anything at all.

[DKL]

...This is exactly why threesomes were invented.



Oh, Something... this is why we love you so much; you so crazy.

But seriously, given how intimate the friendship is, it's hard not to think that these broads was in love each other.

[something]

*******This post is about the first two thinpak discs of part 2, episodes 1-10 i.e. 27-36. Spoilers accordingly.*******

Before I continue on with watching, I figured I'd make some comments about the opening arc, if you will, of the second part. But first a question about the name.

Kaleido Star was one continuously broadcast block from April 2003 to March 2004 - your typical full year, 4 cour show. Normally I'd consider that to be a single four cour season like Hayate no Gotoku or Shugo Chara, and unlike the two distinct seasons (still 4 cour total) of Code Geass or Gundam 00. However KS is a bit different from all of those. Despite the continuous airing, there's a notable break in various ways, it starts with two recap eps, and most tellingly the logo actually changes. It's no longer just Kaleido Star/カレイドスター, it's Kaleido Star: Shin Tanaru Tsubasa/カレイドスター新たなる翼. ...Anyway, this paragraph is all a bit misleading because the real reason I bring it up is... what the hell is "tanaru"? Obviously shin is new, tsubasa is wing(s). But I can't figure out tanaru, either as a standalone word or a grammatical ending of some sort.

The new characters

Leon is an insufferable shitbag with no redeeming value whatsoever. He's a narcissist in the extreme, doesn't care who he hurts, and will go so far as to injure his partner during a show to prove a point. Bastards can be great characters, but right now Leon fails as a 'person', a character, and a storytelling device.

May, however, is much easier to take. I'm actually at the point where I sympathize with her, and it was clear from the start where her common ground with Sora lies and I can already see the contours of how they'll get there.

While I rather like this season so far, I can see where it irks people. In season one, Sora faced much adversity, but she didn't have rivals, per se. The person she most needed to overcome was herself, and the people around her challenged her to do so. They didn't try to destroy her. Leon has no goal for Sora right now. There's nothing he wants her to achieve, other than her own destruction. As of now, anyway - episode 10 was a good stopping point actually, because it's only just now that Layla has sewn the seeds of doubt in his mind. He never looked at Sora seriously before and merely assumed she would quit the training. But Sora totally screwed his plans, and now he's not entirely sure what to do. He fears that someone like her who actually believes in all that mushy feel-good talk might be able to surpass him, the great Leon, someone who has honed his skill to the extreme by burying emotion. If he ever becomes an interesting character, this will definitely have been the (beginnings of a) turning point.

I suppose one thing I can credit him with is making May a much better character, simply because he hates her too. If they both ganged up on Sora together, I might well be hating New Wings right now, but instead it's a triangle relationship where each of the three butts heads with the other two. Even if May doesn't want to admit it yet, she's decidedly more on Sora's side than Leon's.

And she started to see it early on, when Leon insulted Layla after the first Screw Spin test. That prompted easily the most startling burst of rage Sora ever expressed. I'd almost call it the first time she was truly angry, and it was pretty amazing to watch all that emotion come pouring forth. May was taken aback, and you just know that right there she realized how deeply Sora loves Layla. The other piece of the puzzle happened in New York. I was irked at first (though probably not as much as Sora) to see May interfere in Layla and Sora's long awaited reunion, but 1) we got that awesome 'dance' scene on stage and 2) May realized not only that Sora loves Layla, but that the feeling is mutual and that Layla put her career on the line because she believed in Sora.

May and Sora went from bitter rivals to "just rivals", and the fact that they'll now be competing mostly for the right reasons rather than all the wrong ones should make the rivalry more satisfying to watch. I have a feeling May will at least think twice before throwing Sora under the bus. Oh sure, she'll still do it, but she'll at least feel a little bad about it =P

The other thing improving my opinion of her is that she's a complete lunatic. Leon is just the perpetual one-note jackass iceman every single fucking scene, but May is more than just 'the bitchy over-confident rival'. She's actually funny, which is essential for making her sort of character likable. Nakahara Mai is loooooooove as usual, especially her wackjob barking and calling out 'attack' names for everything she does. She's also super cute adorable cute which always helps. I really need to able to laugh at a character like her from time to time, lest the rampant negativity just completely drag my enjoyment down. And she has made me laugh, a lot, so she passes. And after the shit Leon just pulled with her, severely damaging her shoulder in Dracula, I feel really bad for her.

Other comments

- Marion looks way cuter in twintails than the... whatever the hell she had before. It's also nice to see her finally perform on the trampoline, because she had quickly become irrelevant in the first half, serving as little more than Jonathan's personal attendant.

- Rosetta is the one returning character who warrants a major mention this time because, hooooooly shit, she joined Kaleido Stage! Fuck yes! That whole episode where she showed up at Sora's place had me convinced it was going to be one big horrid tease like her introduction in the first half. So when she really did join, I was utterly ecstatic. That and the idea of her just showing up at Sora's place and jumping in the shower for Sora to find when she gets back makes me very.... verrrrrry... ::twitches:: <3 She also offered us some respite from the early May/Leon onslaught with the "special training" episode, which delivered the absolute best line of the entire series: ::Rosetta sits on Sora's lap on the swing:: Sora: "Let me take charge of your body." O_O Oh my god, what are you doing to me, Sora? You can't just go and say things like that without warning, my brain simply does not have time to react.

Oh, and Rosetta is always working her hands with some training device or another. I bet should totally could palm someone's face like Tama-nee from TH2.

My only reservation about Rosetta's role in this season is that it seems like, so far, they're not entirely sure what they want to do with her or her desire to master the trapeze - I mean, that could be a whole series in itself, but clearly it won't get that, nor even top or second billing in the episodes left. I'm sure they wanted to throw a bone to Rosetta fans after her minimal role in the first half, but she was immediately made the third member of Marion and Jonathon's bench warming team. I just hope there's a lot more to it than that.

As always these posts end up eating time where I should be watching things instead, so on to disc 3 now. I'll probably finish the show before commenting again, though that depends on how soon I can finish it.

[EmperorBrandon]

The other thing improving my opinion of her is that she's a complete lunatic. Leon is just the perpetual one-note jackass iceman every single fucking scene, but May is more than just 'the bitchy over-confident rival'. She's actually funny, which is essential for making her sort of character likable. Nakahara Mai is loooooooove as usual, especially her wackjob barking and calling out 'attack' names for everything she does. She's also super cute adorable cute which always helps. I really need to able to laugh at a character like her from time to time, lest the rampant negativity just completely drag my enjoyment down. And she has made me laugh, a lot, so she passes. And after the shit Leon just pulled with her, severely damaging her shoulder in Dracula, I feel really bad for her.

Heh, well it seems you understand May's good points. :) Despite her nasty attitude at times, she is pretty fun to watch.

- Rosetta is the one returning character who warrants a major mention this time because, hooooooly shit, she joined Kaleido Stage! Fuck yes! That whole episode where she showed up at Sora's place had me convinced it was going to be one big horrid tease like her introduction in the first half. So when she really did join, I was utterly ecstatic. That and the idea of her just showing up at Sora's place and jumping in the shower for Sora to find when she gets back makes me very.... verrrrrry... ::twitches:: <3 She also offered us some respite from the early May/Leon onslaught with the "special training" episode, which delivered the absolute best line of the entire series: ::Rosetta sits on Sora's lap on the swing:: Sora: "Let me take charge of your body." O_O Oh my god, what are you doing to me, Sora? You can't just go and say things like that without warning, my brain simply does not have time to react.

Yeah, it's really nice that Rosetta got to be a much bigger part in the second series. I think it was mentioned (need to check - there were a few text interviews as extras in with the KS: New Wings singles, and one was Kaori Mizuhashi) that she got to be a popular character, so she got a bigger part in the second season for that reason. Need to check those again now that I'm thinking of that...

[EmperorBrandon]

Yeah, it's really nice that Rosetta got to be a much bigger part in the second series. I think it was mentioned (need to check - there were a few text interviews as extras in with the KS: New Wings singles, and one was Kaori Mizuhashi) that she got to be a popular character, so she got a bigger part in the second season for that reason. Need to check those again now that I'm thinking of that...

Well, I skimmed them over, and I think I got something confused (or else thinking of something else). Hiraike did mention in his interview that he thought Rosetta became popular in part because of Mizuhashi's performance (so that's probably what I was thinking of, somewhat close). Most of Mizuhashi's interview wasn't exactly about Rosetta, but it was pretty interesting, and it seems Kaleido Star was her very first time working with Junichi Sato.

I noted the point in Junichi Sato's interview where he was talking about the difficulty associated with the extension of the series to the 51 episodes, since the initial plan was for 26 episodes and already had got to a conclusion with that one. Also, there was one point where Junichi Sato was talking about fanservice that amused me a little bit (heh, brought it up already before in a post (http://www.mania.com/aodvb/showpost.php?p=1097443&postcount=75) I made in the Aria thread). It's interesting seeing them talk about their work on the show and the staff and cast - don't get too much information on that, at least translated, from many of the other shows Sato worked on. There's some interviews in the Princess Tutu inserts, but those are really short (the ones on the Kaleido Star DVD's are long)

[something]

I noted the point in Junichi Sato's interview where he was talking about the difficulty associated with the extension of the series to the 51 episodes, since the initial plan was for 26 episodes and already had got to a conclusion with that one.
Interesting, and that would explain a lot about how the transition was handled.

Also, there was one point where Junichi Sato was talking about fanservice that amused me a little bit
I love the fanservice in Kaleido Star, because it's never actually trying to be fanservicey. The sexiness of the characters just shines straight through and needs no special attention from the animators. We have extremely attractive girls in skimpy or at least moderately skin-baring (and always the legs~) outfits doing all sorts of very flexible things... It totally sells itself. Who needs pantyshots?

Oh and since I'm not going to be posting until tomorrow night probably, I have to say: Cathy is looooooooooooove. I hope they show more of her working with Mia, because for those few minutes where she was critiquing/helping Mia all I could think was Cathy x Mia! Cathy x Mia!

At any rate I'm on episode.... uh, 16/42 now, but will keep detailed comments for a later post (like, one that isn't a reply to comments about 27-36 :sd: )

[EmperorBrandon]

I love the fanservice in Kaleido Star, because it's never actually trying to be fanservicey. The sexiness of the characters just shines straight through and needs no special attention from the animators. We have extremely attractive girls in skimpy or at least moderately skin-baring (and always the legs~) outfits doing all sorts of very flexible things... It totally sells itself. Who needs pantyshots?

Oh, I absolutely agree. :) There's a good variety of pretty costumes throughout Kaleido Star, which I like.

[Nemo_N]

It's no longer just Kaleido Star/カレイドスター, it's Kaleido Star: Shin Tanaru Tsubasa/カレイドスター新たなる翼. ...Anyway, this paragraph is all a bit misleading because the real reason I bring it up is... what the hell is "tanaru"? Obviously shin is new, tsubasa is wing(s). But I can't figure out tanaru, either as a standalone word or a grammatical ending of some sort.

Argh, I remember pondering about this too, but I forgot whether or not I got a satisfying answer, but from what I remember: 新た is "arata"= fresh, novel, new. Then you got なる, naru, which is "to become" (in this case it would be something like "to become new") and then tsubasa. I can't recall if I was able to put this together in a way that makes sense. Hope this helps.

Also, IIRC, the OVA that fits after the ending of the series should fuel your RosettaxSora fanboyism even more :sdsmiley:.

[something]

Argh, I remember pondering about this too, but I forgot whether or not I got a satisfying answer, but from what I remember: 新た is "arata"= fresh, novel, new. Then you got なる, naru, which is "to become" (in this case it would be something like "to become new") and then tsubasa. I can't recall if I was able to put this together in a way that makes sense. Hope this helps.
Hmm, I was wondering about the 'naru' approach as well. I mean, it certainly seemed to make sense, Sora's wings being made anew and all that. But everything I've seen insists on romanizing it with the onyomi reading of 'shin' for 新. I like Arata naru Tsubasa so much better though. :sd:

[TornadoTatsumaki]

I love the fanservice in Kaleido Star, because it's never actually trying to be fanservicey. The sexiness of the characters just shines straight through and needs no special attention from the animators. We have extremely attractive girls in skimpy or at least moderately skin-baring (and always the legs~) outfits doing all sorts of very flexible things... It totally sells itself. Who needs pantyshots?

Oh, I absolutely agree. :) There's a good variety of pretty costumes throughout Kaleido Star, which I like.
If you have the DVD, you can look on the extras and there's an interview with Sato himself saying that the fan-service was inetional calling them "ass shots".

[DKL]

I find it amusing that Sato got into fights with the producers or whoever over the way some stuff was shot... he said he had to shoot the sequences from the POV of Sora's ass in order to make things more dynamic or something (but also did it to satisfy himself with, you know, fan service)...

What a guy; he's my hero.

[Spirit Of The Stage]

The other thing improving my opinion of her is that she's a complete lunatic. Leon is just the perpetual one-note jackass iceman every single fucking scene, but May is more than just 'the bitchy over-confident rival'. She's actually funny, which is essential for making her sort of character likable. Nakahara Mai is loooooooove as usual, especially her wackjob barking and calling out 'attack' names for everything she does. She's also super cute adorable cute which always helps. I really need to able to laugh at a character like her from time to time, lest the rampant negativity just completely drag my enjoyment down. And she has made me laugh, a lot, so she passes. And after the shit Leon just pulled with her, severely damaging her shoulder in Dracula, I feel really bad for her.

Heh, well it seems you understand May's good points. :) Despite her nasty attitude at times, she is pretty fun to watch.


May really grew on me as a character (didn't help that along with Nakahara Mai being awesome, her dub voice is the wonderful Hilary Haag, who I can't think of anybody else being more perfect for May) and by the end of the series I was absolutely in love with her. She was behind the holy trifecta of Sora/Layla/Rosetta but definitely pushing Mia for my 4th favourite.

Plus by the end of the series and the first OVA, we have an alternative for those whose mind has blown with the idea of a Sora/Layla/Rosetta yuri-threesome (and hopefully this time this will work something...) - you may have noticed that May actually has a little compassion for Rosetta during her training ep, this is expanded by pretty much kidnapping Rose to be on stage during the Swan Lake act and training her up to be May's partner. May and Rosetta...adorable together (sadly, Rose is not quite as comfortable with calling out names of moves...:P)

[Shsway]

Awright, so I can only comment on the first season. I've kind of been avoiding the second, because I'm not real keen to see further harassment of the main character by two new jerk-offs (and less screen time for...?)

Really, to me this show was all about Layla. Layla, Layla and more Layla. Yum. Lust. Ahem...

I honestly don't get all the fervor over Sora/Rosetta, but as you can tell, I do have my biases. Also, I find it funny that Sora kinda rejects a fella named Yuri in this, eh? ;) :sdsmiley:

The training for the "Pirate Ship" show (and the first show itself), was awesome. Oh, and the training for the Ultimate (Wow, I can't spell) Maneuver. Oh, and the Masked Star moment, where Layla and Sora get all touchy...Hoehhhh... :beatingheart:

Eh, I was gonna see the second season sometime, but I'll admit that your mention of a reunion between the two characters and such kind of has me a little more amped to check it out. Honestly, without this central relationship, I would have found the show quite dry and boring. Somehow, Sora's genki girl appeal wasn't doing it for me, despite the purplish hair. Also, I think I wanted to see more training and development for all of the side characters, but there was already enough that I don't see how that could have been possible.

[something]

Awright, so I can only comment on the first season. I've kind of been avoiding the second, because I'm not real keen to see further harassment of the main character by two new jerk-offs (and less screen time for...?)
I'll be watching the last disc tonight (52 eps in 4 days, whee, and I coulda done it in like 2-2.5 if I didn't have work...) and commenting in depth then, but while that was my fear initially too, it actually wasn't a problem. Yes, Sora gets beat on, but she still has the bulk of the cast behind her at all times, so you never feel like you're drowning in the negativity.

Basically, my feeling so far is that I can understand why some KS fans might cut out early during New Wings, but I can't imagine how anyone who made it to the end (or really, the halfway point) would feel the same way by ep 52 as they did a few eps after May and Leon's intro. Of course, I have six episodes left to sour me on the show, but I highly, highly doubt that'll happen. Not with the way it's been going. New Wings has been downright fantastic.

[something]

No. You're not my dream anymore. You're my pride.


I fucking criiiiied so much.

I had a wealth of notes on for various things I was going to talk about but 80% of what I want to say just seems to insignificant right now. Well, here goes nothing. (Note: I'm holding off the 'extra stage' and other OVAs until tomorrow, because I want to go to sleep with this episode the only thing on my mind.)

I don't feel like talking too much about the downsides, since they were all reversed by the end anyway. After all, I knew they'd find a way to bring Leon back into the light and all that (what is his place in the plot all about, if not redemption?) but they succeeded far better than I expected. Daaaaamn Leon has baggage. It's not that I find him to be an especially amazing character even now (he still lacks presence oddly), but his skills and his flaws both motivated Sora to reach new heights, in every sense of the phrase. I can at least credit him with that much, so he passes - even if he still deserves to be smacked.

May was a long way towards her redemption even back when I posted about episodes 1-10/27-36. I just loved watching her grow, from her falling out with Leon to her failed 'smiling practice' with Layla and Cathy to finally finding her true smile with Sora at the Kenneth Motors show and Beyond. "I will become demonically humble! And then I'll surpass you, and scorn you!" Bwahaha, I love May. What I especially love is that she not only found herself as a new kind of rival for Sora, but that she even took the time to help Rosetta out. From an upstart to only wants to crush the current star, she learns how to compete in a constructive and healthy way, and then grows to the point where she can take someone else under her wing - May is a really extraordinary character.

Rosetta. She did indeed sit in the background most of the time (Sora, Leon, May, Layla, even Cathy and Mia got as much or more focus) but I still love her anyway. Of course it's Rosetta who lets Sora live with her when Sora comes back from Japan! One time when they're sitting outside eating, I totally thought she was pulling a naked apron. :sd: Also from that scene, Fool floats near Rosetta's face and Sora angrily swipes at him and tosses him off beyond the horizon... leaving poor Rosetta teary eyed thinking she's pissed Sora off somehow. So cute! >_< At any rate I really like her time with May, short though it was. Eternal Illusion!

Mia couldn't possibly get enough screentime for me, but I loved what she got. Her transition into the role of writer/producer was perfectly executed and it also let her interact with Cathy who is awesome! Cathy and Mia make such a great duo. Mmm, Cathy x Mia =D

Gotta throw in a quick mention for Yuri. He was the one dimensional villain of season one but became waaay more interesting in season two. It was really out of left field for him to become Sora's trainer for the festival, and I totally didn't see it coming - well, ok, so someone went and mentioned it way early in this thread without spoiler tags, but it didn't click in my brain as a possibility so I figured it was merely a typo for Leon. :sd: I'd say he was my favorite male character, at least for a time. Granted he didn't have a lot of competition. Ken is a really, really good guy, but that's about it - his greatest achievement was not burdening us with a weak romantic distraction for Sora, since she never seriously thought of him like that. Kalos did his job, and did it pretty well, so uh, little more needs to be said there. This isn't a show you watch for the guys anyway.

It's actually hard to talk about Sora and Layla in a "summary" fashion because they are Kaleido Star. The show may be about Sora, and obviously Layla plays less of a role in the first half than in New Wings, but she's still everything to Sora. She's an idol, an obstacle, a coworker, a dream, a friend, a partner, and finally a rival. Sora is exactly those things to Layla as well, and, of course, her pride. I talked a little about their relationship in my post for the first half, and it all still holds.

The Angelic Maneuver

I didn't know how well they'd pull off Layla's challenge to Sora after the focus being on Sora for so long, but it definitely left me satisfied. Layla returned with exactly the right balance of emotions, of wanting to see Sora surpass her, and wanting to beat her. She was neither too soft nor too harsh. They managed to have her return without it feeling tacked on or like a star past her prime was clinging to the limelight - on the contrary, Layla's job was never completed in season one. She brought Sora up to her level, became her partner, but stopped. Only after facing Sora wholeheartedly and losing could she know Sora had surpassed her.

And the moment of recognition was one of the most beautiful moments in a show with no shortage of them. Near the end of the audition, Layla realizes that all she's thinking about is Sora. In midair, at the apex of her jump, she turns around. And there's Sora, eyes closed, with the billowing tent behind her flapping open to create angel's wings of light. I cry.

Finally it was time for the show itself, and the brilliant moments didn't stop. There was Eternal Illusion of course (oh that's just the start, Rosetta)! But then the back of the stage opens, and Sora goes flying up into the air and ohmygodareyouserious they match the timing to the rising of the sun! I cry. It continues with Sora looking gorgeous in a gorgeous costume.

I was a little iffy on the next part - everyone else jumps on stage and it kinda feels like they steal Sora's thunder a bit. But I know that's exactly what Sora wanted, so I can't really complain. The Legendary Great Maneuver took Sora to a personal height. The Aneglic Maneuver pulled everyone up with her. That's the Kaleido Star.

Fool appears before Layla, and bows silently, and Yakusoku no Bashou begins. I cry.

Before parting and heading back to New York, Layla delivers the line I started the post with. I cry.

Layla's awesome maid is going with her to Broadway... I lol!

Rosetta... sees fool! I SIT IN MY ROOM CLAPPING BY MYSELF LIKE A FUCKING LUNATIC!

And finally... "Tsubasa wa yume, soshite, sora e!" I just finished an amazing show.

I can say with the utmost confidence now that any Kaleido Star fan who skips on New Wings/Arata Naru Tsubasa (yeah I'm sticking with that reading of the Japanese) is doing themselves an unimaginable disservice. I don't really care which season is "better" at the moment. It's one long journey and I loved it from start to finish. Neither half is complete without the other.

And it still feels like it's just begun.

[Fudce]

You know what... I was going to save this for the end of the month, but I would like to use this thread to stealthily announce the title for the English Track's eighth draft, the Amazing Autumn VA Draft #8

Kaleido Star

I actually decided back in May, and have been biding my time with this information, but with the amount of love that's flowing for the show, it just seems right to announce this here and now.

Sign Ups wont be starting until September, but I'm hoping for a bigger-than-ever group of participants this time, so it's better to start advertising it early.

[Jimmie M]

I can see that I've got a lot to look forward to once I start New Wings. I've started collecting the singles (2 down, 4 to go) & hope to start on it soon. Good review overall.

[EmperorBrandon]

Granted he didn't have a lot of competition. Ken is a really, really good guy, but that's about it - his greatest achievement was not burdening us with a weak romantic distraction for Sora, since she never seriously thought of him like that.

Heh, this was another thing Junichi Sato mentioned in his interview, when he talked about cutting a scene with Ken short because he didn't want to cut a scene with a maid (I guess talking about Layla's maid...) He was saying if he got anywhere with Sora, then he wouldn't be Ken. :P Pretty amusing...

It continues with Sora looking gorgeous in a gorgeous costume.

Heh, I was really wanting to talk about that earlier when the subject of pretty costumes was on my mind but held back since you were still watching the show. She's so beautiful, though...

Do make sure to check those OVA's out soon too. Princess Without a Smile and Legend of Phoenix are both quite interesting. The third one is kind of goofy, but I rather liked it too.

[HitokiriShadow]

- Rosetta and Sora's diabolo battle was exciting as hell. Easily one of my favorite performances of the first half of the show, but what made it one of my favorite scenes, period, was when Rosetta jumps on Sora, hugs her, and kisses her on the cheek. Oh my lord, I could have died. Died! I still think part of my mind is off in its happy place mentally rewinding that scene over and over (hell, I watched it five times before moving on). Sora x Rosetta yessss!


Seeing a picture of the Sora x Rosetta kiss was the main reason I bought the series in the first place. While there was far less Sora x Rosetta content than I would have liked, I loved it for what it was and what it did do so well at, so I didn't regret my purchase.

[EmperorBrandon]

You know what... I was going to save this for the end of the month, but I would like to use this thread to stealthily announce the title for the English Track's eighth draft, the Amazing Autumn VA Draft #8

Kaleido Star

Oh, nice, it's a show I know again. That's going to be fun for sure, particularly since even though I really liked some of the choices in the dub there are a few characters that I think should have been cast better.

[HitokiriShadow]

Leon is an insufferable shitbag with no redeeming value whatsoever. He's a narcissist in the extreme, doesn't care who he hurts, and will go so far as to injure his partner during a show to prove a point. Bastards can be great characters, but right now Leon fails as a 'person', a character, and a storytelling device.

May, however, is much easier to take. I'm actually at the point where I sympathize with her, and it was clear from the start where her common ground with Sora lies and I can already see the contours of how they'll get there.

Yeah, Leon was quite a douchebag. He gets a bit better later on, but he's still a douchebag for the majority of his screentime. However, I quite liked May though I always felt I was in the minority as the opinions I tended to see of her elsewhere were quite the opposite.

The other thing improving my opinion of her is that she's a complete lunatic. Leon is just the perpetual one-note jackass iceman every single fucking scene, but May is more than just 'the bitchy over-confident rival'. She's actually funny, which is essential for making her sort of character likable. Nakahara Mai is loooooooove as usual, especially her wackjob barking and calling out 'attack' names for everything she does. She's also super cute adorable cute which always helps. I really need to able to laugh at a character like her from time to time, lest the rampant negativity just completely drag my enjoyment down. And she has made me laugh, a lot, so she passes. And after the shit Leon just pulled with her, severely damaging her shoulder in Dracula, I feel really bad for her.


And that's basically the reason I like her so much. She was kind of a bitch at first, but she was also a little nuts which made her endearing. Things like when she refused to join Sora for cake (or something like that, my memory of the series is really vague at this point) and started barking at her.

[something]

He was saying if he got anywhere with Sora, then he wouldn't be Ken. :P Pretty amusing...
So true. Early on season one, he had to be breaking records for the greatest number of unintentional rejections. "Oh, Ken and I aren't like that at all!" And she'd say it in such a cheery voice. :sd: I could just hear his already weak heart seizing up. So even though I would not at all have supported Sora x Ken, I still feel bad for him. =P He seemed popular with the ladies in Japan though (I didn't get to mention how much I liked the short Japan story - well, I did!), maybe he needs to go back!

Do make sure to check those OVA's out soon too. Princess Without a Smile and Legend of Phoenix are both quite interesting. The third one is kind of goofy, but I rather liked it too.
Yep, one on the DVD, one I just grabbed, and the other... jesus, I've had it sitting around waiting for me for more than two and a half years. I really did put this show off way too long, although there was also that damn long gap from ADV, if I remember correctly.

[something]

And that's basically the reason I like her so much. She was kind of a bitch at first, but she was also a little nuts which made her endearing. Things like when she refused to join Sora for cake (or something like that, my memory of the series is really vague at this point) and started barking at her.
Haha, Sora tries to lower some cake down to May's balcony with a rope, but May is there. And she starts barking.... and Sora accidentally drops the cake on her face.

And then it's just silent, and the scene ends. XD

[populuxe]

You know what... I was going to save this for the end of the month, but I would like to use this thread to stealthily announce the title for the English Track's eighth draft, the Amazing Autumn VA Draft #8

Kaleido Star

I actually decided back in May, and have been biding my time with this information, but with the amount of love that's flowing for the show, it just seems right to announce this here and now.

Sign Ups wont be starting until September, but I'm hoping for a bigger-than-ever group of participants this time, so it's better to start advertising it early.

I'll definitely be up for that action. And while we're at it, I'm soliciting for players for the first ever Seiyuu Draft in the Japanese Voice Actor and Music Track. Check it out, all you seiyuu fans.

Enough pimpage. I loved Kaleido Star. When it was being released, it was the one show I was most looking forward to because it hit all the right notes. The second season I didn't initially care for nearly as much. In fact, I got the first two volumes and then stopped buying it. May and Leon were such unsympathetic characters I didn't care to see more of it. I finally did get the rest of the volumes and I'm glad I did. It ended beautifully. However, I do believe the writers really overdid the assholishness of Leon. They had to work real hard to get him back to the point where you could finally feel some sympathy for him by the final volume.

You know, I'm going to have to rewatch the whole thing now. I've rewatched the first season several times because everything about it worked so well. But I've never rewatched the second season because of how unlikable Leon was. A rewatch now would probably allow me to see things about his character I didn't see the first time around because I was so disgusted with him.

Also, the show has Mia, and Mia is love.

[Fudce]

I loved Kaleido Star. When it was being released, it was the one show I was most looking forward to because it hit all the right notes. The second season I didn't initially care for nearly as much. In fact, I got the first two volumes and then stopped buying it. May and Leon were such unsympathetic characters I didn't care to see more of it. I finally did get the rest of the volumes and I'm glad I did. It ended beautifully. However, I do believe the writers really overdid the assholishness of Leon. They had to work real hard to get him back to the point where you could finally feel some sympathy for him by the final volume.
Me personally, I hadn't heard much about Kaleido Star, other than the episode 29 of New Wings on my first Newtype USA disc. It intregued me, but not enough to look into buying the singles of the first series. Thankfully, when the thinpak came around, the folks in the Voxbox chat just couldn't stop talking about it, so I got me a copy of the thinpak. I actually think Martialstax was one of the biggest advocates of how good it is, and a recomendation from Stax is worth it's weight in win in my book.


Also, the show has Mia, and Mia is love.
Mia is absolutely fantastic, probably my favourite too, with Rosetta and Sora coming closely behind her.

[DKL]

FUUUUUUUUUUUCK, I want the second OAV to come out in the states!

ANYWAY, yeah, I cried a lot during the second season 2 (even early on when Leon just kinda shitted on everything Sora and Layla stood for; it was pretty mortifying); I'll wholeheartedly say that it's probably the most emotional I've ever gotten over a show (I guess next only to The Girl Who Leapt Through time, which you should totally see by the way since it feels as meaty as any TV show out there, despite the fact that it's only a feature-length film).

ALSO, one of the thing I liked about Leon towards the end is that, despite the fact that Sora wasn't looking for it, he ends up apologizing for the bullshit he pulled early on in the series; it's as if it was intentionally written in just to give us the satisfaction of seeing him apologize for everything...

I loved it.

Screw this son, I'm gonna marathon both seasons before next week when I have to start up school again.

[Nemo_N]

Oh God, the cake scene. It's one those scenes that you just can't forget.

Gotta throw in a quick mention for Yuri. He was the one dimensional villain of season one but became waaay more interesting in season two. It was really out of left field for him to become Sora's trainer for the festival, and I totally didn't see it coming

I remember going "F**k Yeah!" when Yuri showed up; I just knew that the guy was the right one at that particular moment. Awesome reappearance.

And the moment of recognition was one of the most beautiful moments in a show with no shortage of them. Near the end of the audition, Layla realizes that all she's thinking about is Sora. In midair, at the apex of her jump, she turns around. And there's Sora, eyes closed, with the billowing tent behind her flapping open to create angel's wings of light. I cry.

Man, I know there are some, but I can't remember other stories, in any media, with this kind of "final battle"; once Layla turns around, you know she "lost". Awesome.


Finally it was time for the show itself, and the brilliant moments didn't stop. There was Eternal Illusion of course (oh that's just the start, Rosetta)! But then the back of the stage opens, and Sora goes flying up into the air and ohmygodareyouserious they match the timing to the rising of the sun! I cry. It continues with Sora looking gorgeous in a gorgeous costume.

At first I was like "WTF? Why that early in the morning?", but then BAM! Too much awesomeness in one single show.

You know, I think that one of reasons Gonzo gets so much crap thrown at it (besides the bad shows) is that a good deal of us still remember shows like Kaleido Star; I believe that the fact that they made shows this good just makes Gonzo's bad shows a little bit more painful. Of course, the staff changes matter the most, but I think this is a gut feeling more than anything.

But enough with that. Kaleido Star is awesome and the world will have to deal with it :cool:.

[DKL]

So, I'm watching the show and like...

Layla starts out as a SUPER BITCH; jesus.

Everyone's so conceited that it comes across as gratingly funny.

[populuxe]

I'm up to episode 3 of my spur of the moment marathon and I'm reminded of something that really pissed me off about the first season. Kalos. He's waaaay too Japanese. "I expect great things from you, but I am never ever going to explain them to you." That's one thing that's always pissed me off about all anime. Teachers who don't teach. Mentors who don't mentor. Leaders who don't lead. Aargh. If you want me to learn something, then fucking tell me what it is you want me to learn! If you want to be a teacher, then fucking teach me!

[DKL]

I was under under the impression that the Japanese way was kinda like the promotion of guided growth, while it was more western to have people find their own ways.

But, I dunno... it's like, whatever... for all I know, those could just be stereotypes and it's actually more complicated than that (still, the psychology books will tell you that eastern culture is more of a close community family unit thing whereas western culture promotes individuality).

In any case, yeah... things, in general, feel pretty Japanese, despite the American setting (unlike, say, Black Lagoon, where Sunao Katabuchi demonstrates a relatively good grasp of American entertainment culture or whatever).

[Spirit Of The Stage]

You know what... I was going to save this for the end of the month, but I would like to use this thread to stealthily announce the title for the English Track's eighth draft, the Amazing Autumn VA Draft #8

Kaleido Star

I actually decided back in May, and have been biding my time with this information, but with the amount of love that's flowing for the show, it just seems right to announce this here and now.

Sign Ups wont be starting until September, but I'm hoping for a bigger-than-ever group of participants this time, so it's better to start advertising it early.

If I didn't need an excuse to enter the draft beforehand, I don't need one now. :)

[something]

"I expect great things from you, but I am never ever going to explain them to you." That's one thing that's always pissed me off about all anime. Teachers who don't teach. Mentors who don't mentor. Leaders who don't lead. Aargh.
Hah, yeah, Kaleido Star has loads of that. Pretty much everyone does it to Sora, even Ken from time to time. I get that their whole point is to have Sora truly master things by doing them herself. I also get that if she really wants to achieve the majorly lofty goals she's set for herself, she has to have a high degree of innate ability to face a situation and perceive the correct way forward. And when she does, you really feel like she's earned it. But when a world renowned show with a huge budget on the line is mere days away from opening, you gotta figure someone is gonna say "Hey, do this or we're screwed!"

...But then, that would be so much less dramatic. :sd: Ah, anime logic. =D

On a somewhat random note, OSHA clearly doesn't visit the Kaleido Stage very often.

[something]

You know, I think that one of reasons Gonzo gets so much crap thrown at it (besides the bad shows) is that a good deal of us still remember shows like Kaleido Star; I believe that the fact that they made shows this good just makes Gonzo's bad shows a little bit more painful. Of course, the staff changes matter the most, but I think this is a gut feeling more than anything.
It's definitely not the kind of show that springs immediately to mind when most people think 'Gonzo', that's for sure. But whatever crap I've given them in the past (though it's worth noting I like a good number of their shows), they deserve some major credit for the high quality animation work in Kaleido Star. Their standard crap CG is never gets in the way, and there's not a lot of it to begin with.

Now, if they were doing KS today, I would be worried. Imagine the Angelic maneuver with a 3DCG Sora... ::physically shudders:: But they did right by Kaleido Star. They did very, very right by it from start to finish, and that makes me very happy. Definitely in their highest tier of productions.

[something]

Good da yo, Good!

- CG. Skip.

Legend of the Phoenix

- Hmm, so, the Layla ova is at the end of Swan Lake's run, during prep for Legend of the Phoenix, the next show. Meanwhile Layla is on Broadway doing her own Phoenix show.
- MIRACLE taxi change! I LOVE MAY!
- Layla meets Liu, a vagabond biker or something, while biking off to nowhere...
- The maid's name is Macquarie! Totally didn't catch her name before. She is love and I'm glad to see more of her here.
- Young Layla is tooooooooo damn cute. And a crybaby, which is interesting to find out.
- Layla is doing a roadside show! Bwhaha. too bad she couldn't stick with Liu a little longer - they're an interesting pair. But with how much Layla is worrying about "relying on someone", it's natural she'd want to part.
- May is a demon in a car, not just on stage. I LOVE MAY!
- Speaking of that car ride, Ken and May are slowly beginning to get used to Sora talking to herself. Although May wonders why conversations with the Spirit of the Stage would revolve around bathing.
- Woah, Layla. All lyin' on the ground getting wet and sexy.
- Macquarie designed the Masked Star gimp suit... bwhahaha.
- May is so damn fun to watch with Sora and Ken. I don't particularly like Chinese food but I'd so eat hers. I LOVE MAY!
- A depressed Layla gets picked up by an elderly couple in an RV and tells them her life story. Even though they asked, that would still totally weird me out. Also, the old man looks like he's cosplaying Mario when he's filling the RV's tank! XD
- Demonic Braking! I LOVE MAY!
- With the help of a friendly little girl, Layla finally realizes that it's okay to cry. And it's just then that Sora, May and Ken find her, and it's hilarious.
- Aww, Macquarie leaving the flowers all around for Sora, throughout her entire life. Sweet.
- And you know, cutting hair is totally just a form of "safe sex". Layla and Sora just scored!

And then the climax. Good stuff, although major thumbs down to Layla's new hair. It looked good when Sora first cut it, but then she altered it further to super boring super short blah. Kills her image, and not in a "I found myself and am moving on to something new" kinda way.

Anyway, very nice ep! Didn't realize it was going to be 50 minutes, so that helped add some meat to it. It did take a bit of adjustment to go from "Layla and Sora are totally fulfilled!" at the end of New Wings to "Layla still has issues!" but they sold it well. I mean, by 51, Sora had become a true star, but then it was Layla's turn to complete her own transition. She couldn't continue on in her new life while dreaming her old dreams, nor while being the Layla she'd been since her mother's death. Her new life is not Kaleido Stage, and it's nice to see she could adjust accordingly - with a little help from those who love her.

Episode 52, Extra Stage

- Wow. This is pure win already. The OP lyrics are totally like "Rosetta, I will ravish you!" "No, Sora, I will ravish you first!" and the art gets some reaaaaally nice servicey shots. About half a dozen of them are millimeters from Rosetta nipslips. :sd: A bit startling (in a good way) after the eps 1-51 not going anywhere near that kinda thing.
- Rosetta will star with Sora! Yaaaaaaay! Sora fails at interviews, however. "It was like BWAAAAAAN and ZOOOOOOOSH and GEKKAAAAAAAAAAAN!" (to paraphrase).
- Poor Mia though, having things switched up on her at the last second.
- Bwhaha, Rosetta and Fool get along so well. Fool is so happy...
- THE MASK COMES OFF! XD Don't worry Sora, I never considered it as a possibility either.
- Rosetta the princess and Sora the prince! Leon the fool! Totally forgot about him.
- Woah, Fool's past? I guess it is interesting to get some background on him. :sd: He just appeared as this Spirit of the Stage character, but we never really found out who he was or why he's there.
- And Rosetta is not quite ready for this lead role...
- Huh, maid's name is Makkoli in the ADV translation. That's a big difference. Anyway, whatever her name is, she's collapsed and breathing heavily right now as if Layla TOTALLY just had her way with her.
- Rosetta is looking at the painting, when Sora comes in. Sora walks up next to her... and Rosetta totally grabs her hand and leans in on her. Oh... oh... oooh. My heart just stopped.

Things happen way way fast after that but I like how it wrapped up. No performance this time really, but we got Rosetta, and that's the important thing. <3 Too bad this one wasn't double length too though. That would have been wonderful, but it was really good nonetheless. Loved when Sora looks over at Rosetta at the end and sees her in Legendary Great Maneuver costume... Three years, Sora. In three years, it'll totally happen.

[HitokiriShadow]

Things happen way way fast after that but I like how it wrapped up. No performance this time really, but we got Rosetta, and that's the important thing. <3 Too bad this one wasn't double length too though. That would have been wonderful, but it was really good nonetheless.

Yeah, my major issue with it was that it should have been longer. I think they easily could (and should) have made an entire cour focusing on Rosetta, but at the very least the OVA needed to be a bit longer or have 2-3 episodes. Oh well...

[DKL]

Kaleido Star episode 7

[suspend disbelief before reading on]

You know... Junichi Sato kinda reminds me of Brian De Palma; no, Sato doesn't make gritty crime movies like The Untouchables or Carlito's Way or whatever, but how Sato tells the story...

Much like De Palma, Sato seems to be involved with every single coherent aspect of story and character development; there's literally an explanation for almost everything the characters do and why they are doing it (even though Sato does have this habit of spoon-feeding it to the audience, which I don't really mind).

MAN...

Rosetta was really cute by the end of this episode.

Oh, which reminds me...

I gotta go pick up Black Dahlia... Aaron Eckhart was in that.

[Nemo_N]

Good da yo, Good!

- CG. Skip.

Would you be surprised if I tell you that this came out in September 2006? Oh Gonzo.

Episode 52, Extra Stage

- Wow. This is pure win already. The OP lyrics are totally like "Rosetta, I will ravish you!" "No, Sora, I will ravish you first!" and the art gets some reaaaaally nice servicey shots. About half a dozen of them are millimeters from Rosetta nipslips. :sd:

This was my face during the whole OP sequence (http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/6496/kintaropa2.jpg) (the rest of the episode I had just a silly grin).

- Bwhaha, Rosetta and Fool get along so well. Fool is so happy...


I watched this in Spanish dub so I have to ask; did the exchange between Fool and Rosetta came across (as in, it felt like) as if Fool thought he found a, er, very compliant servant? If not, the spanish dub was awesome.

[DKL]

All things considering, Rosetta seems to wholeheartedly believe in the guy, so whatever you think might've been there is probably there.

[populuxe]

In my spur of the moment marathon, I'm up to episode 22, the end of the fifth volume. This is probably my favorite of the story arcs, when Yuri takes over the Kaleido Stage and everyone tries to keep performing. The rescue of the two children by Sora and the Masked Performer had me on the edge of my seat, even though I've seen it so many times already. When Layla finally confronted her dad and the Fool appeared before her, what a great cliff-hanger that was. Now on to the Grand Canyon.

Oh, and did I mention that Mia is love?

[something]

Would you be surprised if I tell you that this came out in September 2006? Oh Gonzo.
That's the only thing leaving me thinking it's probably for the best Kaleido Star doesn't get revisited, as much as I'd love to see more... or at least it would have to go to a different studio.

I watched this in Spanish dub so I have to ask; did the exchange between Fool and Rosetta came across (as in, it felt like) as if Fool thought he found a, er, very compliant servant? If not, the spanish dub was awesome.
Hmm not necessarily. She calls him "Fool-sensei", respecting his knowledge of legendary maneuvers and all that, but it didn't seem to be much more. I think he's just overjoyed to have someone who won't fling him into the sun around. :sd:

[ndm]

No. You're not my dream anymore. You're my pride.

I fucking criiiiied so much.


I'll let you in on a secret - the second season is even better(!) when you rewatch it, because you no longer have to feel nervous about what will happen with Leon and Mei and can just enjoy the story. :)

[populuxe]

The spur of the moment KS marathon continues. I've finished the 3rd cours that ends with the International Circus Festival in Paris. Thankfully there have been several episodes surrounding Marion, Rosetta and even May that have relieved the monotony of Leon's assholery.

Now on to the final 13 episodes.

Oh, and here's a thought for all you SoraxLayla fanboys: Sora Hamilton. Think about it.

[Fudce]

Oh, and here's a thought for all you SoraxLayla fanboys: Sora Hamilton. Think about it.

Sora Passel sounds better.

[populuxe]

Oh, and here's a thought for all you SoraxLayla fanboys: Sora Hamilton. Think about it.

Sora Passel sounds better.

I think that particular relationship would create Rosetta Naegino.

[Kogepan703]

Okay, this show is a Deal of the Day today, and I only just skimmed this thread since it was full of spoilers. However, people seem pretty enthusiastic about this show, so I kind of want to give this a try.

But I know nothing about this show, and the cover of the artbox for season 2 makes me a little leery.

1) I hate fanservice. How fanservicey is this series? I understand there will probably be some, since they do wear circus costumes, and those are usually skimpy, but is there a lot of fanservice along the lines of "panty shots"? Someone mentioned "ass shots" so do they zoom in on the girls' butts a lot or something?

2) I love Princess Tutu (great story, likeable characters, cute), but disliked Pretear (no connection with the protagonist, hated the transformation scenes, completely uninterested in the story, thought some of the bishies just looked dumb, in particular the blond one). I also enjoyed Magic User's Club OAV (which was somewhat fanservicey, and was really borderline for me, but Sae really saved the show), but the TV series was only okay (just didn't get interested in the story and thought that ghost girl/boy thing was just creepy). Which one is this closer to?

3) And it looks like season 2 sort of has fans divided. Is season 1 a standalone season? Or is season 2 necessary?

4) Is this a yuri show? People seem to be making a lot of pairings, but I'm not sure if that's in their imagination, or what the show is going for. I just finished Maria Watches Over Us, and I thought that was a great show, but I don't want to watch a yuri if it's going to have a lot of boob grabbing or makeout scenes or stuff like that.

Thanks!

[populuxe]

1) I hate fanservice. How fanservicey is this series? I understand there will probably be some, since they do wear circus costumes, and those are usually skimpy, but is there a lot of fanservice along the lines of "panty shots"? Someone mentioned "ass shots" so do they zoom in on the girls' butts a lot or something?
Minimal fanservice. No panties shots, no jiggling, nothing like that. This particular avatar of mine was made from a screen shot of the opening. It's not a particular fetish of the show's director or anything. I just thought it would make a great avatar.

2) I love Princess Tutu (great story, likeable characters, cute), but disliked Pretear (no connection with the protagonist, hated the transformation scenes, completely uninterested in the story, thought some of the bishies just looked dumb, in particular the blond one). I also enjoyed Magic User's Club OAV (which was somewhat fanservicey, and was really borderline for me, but Sae really saved the show), but the TV series was only okay (just didn't get interested in the story and thought that ghost girl/boy thing was just creepy). Which one is this closer, too?
Something like that is completely subjective. I prefered Princess Tutu over Pretear by a long shot, and I loved Kaleido Star, if that helps any.

3) And it looks like season 2 sort of has fans divided. Is season 1 a standalone season? Or is season 2 necessary?
Season 1 stands alone, but season 2 has some excellent character development. I personally feel the writers made the new protagonists too unsympathetic, but they both have their moments of redemption, so it's up to you.

4) Is this a yuri show? People seem to be making a lot of pairings, but I'm not sure if that's in their imagination, or what the show is going for. I just finished Maria Watches Over Us, and I thought that was a great show, but I don't want to watch a yuri if it's going to have a lot of boob grabbing or makeout scenes or stuff like that.
No boob-grabbing or anything like that. Sora's adoration of Layla is right out there on the surface, but there's no outright lesbian antics. The closest we get to anything like that is when one girl kisses another on the cheek after a great performance by the two of them.

Thanks!
You're welcome.

[something]

1) I hate fanservice. How fanservicey is this series? I understand there will probably be some, since they do wear circus costumes, and those are usually skimpy, but is there a lot of fanservice along the lines of "panty shots"? Someone mentioned "ass shots" so do they zoom in on the girls' butts a lot or something?
One of the things we explicitly discussed earlier (I know, you only skimmed to avoid spoilers and so wouldn't have seen it) is how Kaleido Star is exactly the kind of show where fanservice is no problem whatsoever. It's sexy just by virtue of who the characters are and what they're doing, and there's not a single pantyshot in the show. Ok, granted, they're generally in gymnastics leotards and the like so there's no "pantyshots" to be had, but still. :sd: Fanservice is the least of anyone's worries in Kaleido Star.

2) Which one is this closer, too?
I've only seen Tutu of that list and it's not really similar at all. But note I love Tutu, and I like this a lot more.

3) And it looks like season 2 sort of has fans divided. Is season 1 a standalone season? Or is season 2 necessary?
Season one ends at a good point but there's no reason at all not to move into season two. It takes the achievements of season one and brings them all to a more satisfying and complete conclusion. It's hard at first to go from the emotional climax of episode 26 to seeing Sora having major problems again in the beginning of New Wings (which if watching as it originally aired would have happened mere weeks apart!), but eventually you realize that Sora in 51 (and the OVA specials) is a much more fulfilled character than even what she accomplished in 26.

I was hesitant about season two based on what I heard, and by the end those worries were completely gone. I was exactly the person the show had to work hardest to convince, and oh god it convinced me. Convinced me in epic fashion. One of the two characters I was worried about became one of my favorites, period. I'd put her #4 or #5, and that's damn good considering Sora, Layla and Rosetta are automatic at the top.

4) Is this a yuri show?
I wish.

[Kogepan703]

Cool, thanks for the replies! Now to go find something to pad my order for free shipping. :)

[populuxe]

Cool, thanks for the replies! Now to go find something to pad my order for free shipping. :)

Just one word of warning. I don't know if you watch your shows in Japanese or English or both, but in the first season, the Fool's dialogue was rewritten in the English dub to remove all of his etchiness. (He's constantly trying to get Sora to take showers so he can peep on her, among other things. He never succeeds.) The rewrites lessen in severity as the first season goes on, thankfully, and it's gone completely in the second season. If you watch it subtitled, then there's nothing to worry about. The subtitles aren't messed with. The rewrites were forced on ADV at the insistence of the Japanese licensor.

[Kogepan703]

Just one word of warning. I don't know if you watch your shows in Japanese or English or both, but in the first season, the Fool's dialogue was rewritten in the English dub to remove all of his etchiness. (He's constantly trying to get Sora to take showers so he can peep on her, among other things. He never succeeds.) The rewrites lessen in severity as the first season goes on, thankfully, and it's gone completely in the second season. If you watch it subtitled, then there's nothing to worry about. The subtitles aren't messed with. The rewrites were forced on ADV at the insistence of the Japanese licensor.
Ah, thanks for the heads up (and for the assurance that he doesn't succeed). I do watch all my anime subbed, so I won't have any problem with the dubbing issue.

[populuxe]

Ah, thanks for the heads up (and for the assurance that he doesn't succeed). I do watch all my anime subbed, so I won't have any problem with the dubbing issue.

I think you'll enjoy the Fool in Japanese. It's Takehito Koyasu. It's a great combination of his trademark manly-man voice with his excellent comedic talent.

[Randall Miyashiro]

It's funny that (as mentioned above) The Fool is my least favorite character. He reminds me of Drosselmeyer And Mr. Cat from Tutu who I also can't stand.

There are so many Magical Girl elements about both Tutu and Pretear that I'm really glad are not present in Kaleido Star. I really didn't care for Tutu, but it's strongest element is the fine line between enemy and friend (Pretear does this to a simpler extent) which is something Kaleido Star also utilizes. I really enjoy the slice of life drama in Kaleido Star compared to slapstick comedy that was present in the other two series. The Kaleido Star characters are so much more likeable and three dimensional than the characters from the other two series.

[lilgumba]

After returning from the abyss I see this thread and I am very pleased. Kaleido Star was a great show to watch for me. The character interactions by far were some of the best I had seen at the time and the story got me hooked. The one thing I would have liked to seen more was Mia and Anna's relationship. It seems like they had a strong bond but I think we were too focused on Sora/Layla or Sora/anyone else to see their interaction. Did anyone else feel like that?

[something]

The one thing I would have liked to seen more was Mia and Anna's relationship. It seems like they had a strong bond but I think we were too focused on Sora/Layla or Sora/anyone else to see their interaction. Did anyone else feel like that?
I wanted more Mia in general, but I never warmed up to Anna much. I liked the level of support she gave Sora, but by and large her quest for the ultimate comedy routine felt haphazardly tacked on. Each performance she'd try something new, and it just didn't mesh with everything else that was going on. The story had just moved to a point where there wasn't much reason for her to stick around, and it really showed.

Mia, on the other hand, really came into her own as a writer/producer. That was a meaningful contribution every time, and it was really fun to watch. I couldn't have asked for a better path for her character to take. It was doubly awesome because she got to work with Cathy, who I very much adored. So I definitely wanted to see more Mia, but it's Mia/Cathy that interested me moreso than Mia/Anna.

[EmperorBrandon]

Mia, on the other hand, really came into her own as a writer/producer. That was a meaningful contribution every time, and it was really fun to watch. I couldn't have asked for a better path for her character to take. It was doubly awesome because she got to work with Cathy, who I very much adored. So I definitely wanted to see more Mia, but it's Mia/Cathy that interested me moreso than Mia/Anna.

Yeah, and Anna seemed to get paired up differently later on in New Wings too. Anna got those two comedy friends of her there, Hanna and Barbara (love the reference with their name, at least - Hanna-Barbera, I assume), and Ken as an unwitting partner in their comedy routine too. :P

[lilgumba]

Well that's the thing for me. Anna was such an off character I wonder why Mia would be so close with her. It's like there was a backstory missing that most of the other characters got as far as them interacting with each other. I mean even Mr. Policeman and Kate (if that was her name I forgot) got their own backstory and we barely saw them. Why'd they leave out Mia and Anna? Yes they sometimes share a bed and Mia gets googly-eyed when Anna gets all serious.

As far as who I'd rather see more, Sora/Layla or Sora/Rosetta, I think I liked the Sora/Rosetta interaction more. I got more of a work respect from Sora/Layla but I got the cute sisterly vibe from Sora/Rosetta. That kiss on the cheek did it I think. It was too cute.

[populuxe]

I must be getting soft in my old age. Now that I've finished volume 5 of New Wings, I'm warming up to Leon and May. May was already showing great potential after her initial unpleasant introduction. Not letting Sora practice on the spinning trapeze was a huge mark against her in my book, but it allowed her subsequent efforts to better herself that much more satisfying. Also, I can't hold a grudge against a sexy Chinese girl who's constantly running around in a halter top and short-shorts.

Leon was for more unlikable, but his back story and his confrontation with Yuri is giving him the room necessary to redeem himself. Especially when Sora was practicing so hard that she was tearing the skin off her toes. He was actually concerned for her and tried to cut short the training for the Angel's Maneuver. We never would have seen compassion from him earlier in the show.

[Fencedude]

Figured it was time I gave this a rewatch, and I never did watch it in Japanese, so thats what I'm doing now.

Blah blah OH GOD ROSETTA IS MIZUHASHI KAORI

*dies*

[populuxe]

I finished my spur of the moment KS marathon. Yeah, I cried during the Angel's Maneuver. It was very beautiful and very inspiring. I give in on the whole issue os Leon. They had to take him that far down so they could take him this far back up. And May ended up being a great character. She was a spark that the show needed. And besides, seeing her when she literally gets "barking mad" is priceless.

On the OVA about Rosetta, I noticed the director really started playing up the physical charms of the various cast members, but not in a typical way. Looking down on Sora during the opening interview, still in costume and bare feet. Focusing on Mia's midsection while she struggles to write the story, her arm deforming her lovely breasts. The supple way Anna moves. On and on. It's just as something said. It's not traditional fanservice. These characters are beautiful and the director wants to show it off.

[EmperorBrandon]

Figured it was time I gave this a rewatch, and I never did watch it in Japanese, so thats what I'm doing now.

Blah blah OH GOD ROSETTA IS MIZUHASHI KAORI

*dies*

Rosetta is one I definitely much prefer to hear in the Japanese version (in my opinion, she was miscast in the dub - there were a few that struck me this way, though the dub overall is very enjoyable).

[EmperorBrandon]

On the OVA about Rosetta, I noticed the director really started playing up the physical charms of the various cast members, but not in a typical way. Looking down on Sora during the opening interview, still in costume and bare feet. Focusing on Mia's midsection while she struggles to write the story, her arm deforming her lovely breasts. The supple way Anna moves. On and on. It's just as something said. It's not traditional fanservice. These characters are beautiful and the director wants to show it off.

Heh, given that it's an OVA, the producers were probably more lenient in allowing shots like that. :)

[Spirit Of The Stage]

Figured it was time I gave this a rewatch, and I never did watch it in Japanese, so thats what I'm doing now.

Blah blah OH GOD ROSETTA IS MIZUHASHI KAORI

*dies*

Rosetta is one I definitely much prefer to hear in the Japanese version (in my opinion, she was miscast in the dub - there were a few that struck me this way, though the dub overall is very enjoyable).

In all fairness to Serena Varghese (the dub VA of Rosetta), she was going for the mature route - Rosetta being a girl who has had to grow up fast being in France for so long and being 'the princess without a smile' for so long, it was probably why she cast it that way. I actually enjoyed her performance...but Kaori Mizuhashi is a goddess in her role as Rosetta. She's played quite a number of great characters (including my second favourite female character of all time, Chika Ogiue from Genshiken, not to mention Ai from Aria and Vivio from Nanoha StrikerS - and whilst Rumbling Hearts I'm indifferent to, she was awesome as Akane) and her pouting into uber excited Rosetta made me fall in love with the voice.

And to follow up on the issue of fanservice, I forgot about some of the shots used in the Rosetta OVA being a bit more...well...servicable. However, it stills Kaleido Star and it's still held back...and the cast are still beautiful - besides, we didn't get to see much Anna/Mia interaction in New Wings thanks to Cathy so seeing Anna ruffle up Mia's hair reminded me of their earlier relationship (to the point where they shared a room...even a bed? It's a double bed and one room...and people say it's not a yuri anime...^^)

[Shsway]

OK, OK. Thanks to something and the rest of you idiots I'm now re-watching this too. :sdsmiley: :sd: I do have a backlog and a budget to think about you know!

Count me in as one of those folks who always wondered what was up with the Mia/Anna relationship. I don't dislike the latter, but apparently (like everyone else), I prefer watching what the other one is doing. Now, if they have more of their moments in the second season, I'll definitely be...

Man, Layla is so hot. She really is close to the type I'm actually attracted to in real life. She and Sora are so cute, what with their mutual smoldering and such.

This is a show I really wish I could appreciate in English, but there is something strangely off about everything in the American dub. Even with a Kyle Jones script! I just can't connect to the characters the way I end up doing so to the original Japanese.

[Fencedude]

Also, some of the ages in this show are hilarious.

Like, Layla's 17, only 1 year older than Sora, and Yuri's only 18! And Ken's 18 too!

Its just really hilarious. Layla and Yuri especially come off as being significantly older than Sora and the others.

[The Great Bear]

Also, some of the ages in this show are hilarious.

Like, Layla's 17, only 1 year older than Sora, and Yuri's only 18! And Ken's 18 too!

Its just really hilarious. Layla and Yuri especially come off as being significantly older than Sora and the others.

Definitely. Sora comes off as a chirpy 14 year old, while Layla and Yuri look and act like they're about 25.

I guess being Western ages you :P

[Fencedude]

Also, some of the ages in this show are hilarious.

Like, Layla's 17, only 1 year older than Sora, and Yuri's only 18! And Ken's 18 too!

Its just really hilarious. Layla and Yuri especially come off as being significantly older than Sora and the others.

Definitely. Sora comes off as a chirpy 14 year old, while Layla and Yuri look and act like they're about 25.

I guess being Western ages you :P

I also took note at how many (though not all, but a good number) of teh main cast conveniently have names that aren't going to cause native Japanese speakers conniptions.

[something]

Also, some of the ages in this show are hilarious.
Like, Layla's 17, only 1 year older than Sora, and Yuri's only 18! And Ken's 18 too!
Its just really hilarious. Layla and Yuri especially come off as being significantly older than Sora and the others.
Were they? Huh, I knew Sora was 16 but didn't remember seeing an age for Layla and Yuri. Those ages are... complete and utter nonsense. o_O Why do anime series always feel compelled to give characters ages that are just so clearly not close to reality?

If Layla is 17 when the series begins, and she joined Kaleido Stage at 14 (according to Wiki anyway - hey her birthday was only two weeks ago!), that means she won the international circus festival at 14, right when she'd joined Kaleido Stage. There is simply no way she looked at in those flashbacks. :sd: I mean, isn't Rosetta like 13? At least she sorta looks her age.

Anyway, where did you get the ages? Did they mention it in show? I only see day/month of birth on the official site and in wiki. Edit: ok, wiki has Yuri at 18, so yeah... damn that's stupid.

[Fencedude]

Anyway, where did you get the ages? Did they mention it in show? I only see day/month of birth on the official site and in wiki.

Inserts from the original single disc releases.

[EmperorBrandon]

Even with a Kyle Jones script!

Kyle Jones only produced, directed, and wrote the first episode of the dub. He didn't do anything with the show after that, as far as I know (or at least the credits say).

[HitokiriShadow]

Why do anime series always feel compelled to give characters ages that are just so clearly not close to reality?


Because anime hates to have many characters that are, officially, over 20 but under 50. So you get situations like this where characters look like and should be in their late 20s or early 30s but are given absurd official ages.

[Fencedude]

While we're being all nitpicky, something else that bugs me related to the ages is the fact that unlike Japan, secondary education is mandatory in the US, and none of these girls seem to be in high school. Now, I'm not clear on the rules for resident aliens (or whatever the hell Sora is, they also gloss THAT over...), and I think Mia isn't a US citizen either, but Anna, Layla and a few of the others should definitely still be in school.

Now, this actually would have easily been fixed by throwing in some lines about how the Kaleido Stage doubles as a vocational secondary school, which trains them in performance arts and allows them to get their High School Diploma.

And god damn I think about some of the most useless crap, don't I?

(also I must say that in episode 12, when Layla gets on the moving ropewalk rig for the first time she's positively ORGASMING IN JOY and its really hot.)

(and I just noticed that Layla's Birthday is the day after mine)

[HitokiriShadow]

While we're being all nitpicky, something else that bugs me related to the ages is the fact that unlike Japan, secondary education is mandatory in the US, and none of these girls seem to be in high school. Now, I'm not clear on the rules for resident aliens (or whatever the hell Sora is, they also gloss THAT over...), and I think Mia isn't a US citizen either, but Anna, Layla and a few of the others should definitely still be in school.

Now, this actually would have easily been fixed by throwing in some lines about how the Kaleido Stage doubles as a vocational secondary school, which trains them in performance arts and allows them to get their High School Diploma.


I think Layla's situation can be explained away by her being filthy rich and thus could afford a private tutor. That, and you can just scream bullshit at the official age. However, neither of those excuses work for the younger girls though, as Anna and Mia (if she's a U.S. citizen) should be in school.

[Fencedude]

I think Layla's situation can be explained away by her being filthy rich and thus could afford a private tutor. That, and you can just scream bullshit at the official age. However, neither of those excuses work for the younger girls though, as Anna and Mia (if she's a U.S. citizen) should be in school.

Not to mention the blonde and "poi poi" girl, they're the same age (in theory), plus all the other random cast members.

I'd still love to have seen INS's reaction to Sora's Visa application.

"so you want to send your minor daughter to America, unattended, to join a CIRCUS!?"

[populuxe]

Even with a Kyle Jones script!

Kyle Jones only produced, directed, and wrote the first episode of the dub. He didn't do anything with the show after that, as far as I know (or at least the credits say).

Correct. Sandra Krasa directed every episode from episode two on, and scripted the second and third episodes. They are two of the sloppiest ADR scripts I've ever heard. Kathleen Moynihan took over with episode 4 and the scripts cleaned up dramatically.

[The Great Bear]

And god damn I think about some of the most useless crap, don't I?

You do seem to really get in a little deep in analyzing this show :sd:

That said, I'll pull out the best line of BS to offer a fake explanation:

It's always summer, so school's out. We never seem to see them during other seasons of the year. Yeah, I know that's not true, but it's anime :P

I'd still love to have seen INS's reaction to Sora's Visa application.

"so you want to send your minor daughter to America, unattended, to join a CIRCUS!?"

LOL. One can imagine the consulate official in Tokyo at the window:

"NEXT!"

[something]

I'd still love to have seen INS's reaction to Sora's Visa application.
"so you want to send your minor daughter to America, unattended, to join a CIRCUS!?"
Heh, sure that would have went over big.

One other taking-it-too-seriously thought I frequently had during watching the show: How much does Sora make? At the beginning she no doubt made peanuts and later on she came back as an unpaid backstage crew member, but when she was under contract as the top star at Kaleido Stage (especially at the end), I can't help but wonder what her paycheck was like.

[lilgumba]

Maybe they get super paid because the ticket prices are so friggin expensive if it's anything like Cirque compared to Ringling. Then add in the factor that they can get private sponsors like the Kenneth dude.

[something]

Maybe they get super paid because the ticket prices are so friggin expensive if it's anything like Cirque compared to Ringling. Then add in the factor that they can get private sponsors like the Kenneth dude.
Then again they also live in really sparse dormitories. Sora even had to get a part time job when they found Jonathan.

Of course that's before she became famous. ::shrugs::

[ndm]

While we're being all nitpicky, something else that bugs me related to the ages is the fact that unlike Japan, secondary education is mandatory in the US, and none of these girls seem to be in high school. Now, I'm not clear on the rules for resident aliens (or whatever the hell Sora is, they also gloss THAT over...), and I think Mia isn't a US citizen either, but Anna, Layla and a few of the others should definitely still be in school.

Watching the show it always seemed to me that Sora had just finished high school just prior to season 1 (making her 17-18). I seem to remember her ex-classmate and best friend was attending college in the US, plus I definitely remember Sora meeting with her friends in season 2 after she went home and hearing what they had all been up to since she left - iirc one was trying to get a job as a voice actor.

[something]

Watching the show it always seemed to me that Sora had just finished high school just prior to season 1 (making her 17-18). I seem to remember her ex-classmate and best friend was attending college in the US, plus I definitely remember Sora meeting with her friends in season 2 after she went home and hearing what they had all been up to since she left - iirc one was trying to get a job as a voice actor.
Well, her being 16 is an official age, but yeah, everything in the show contradicts it, and moreso with Yuri and Layla. Some anime just assign young ages "cause thats how it's supposed to be", and then blissfully ignore all the implications of the age they chose and just go and do whatever they want instead. :sd:

And policeman Jerry looks more like 49 than "29" but there you have it. :sd:

[Fencedude]

So yeah, finished rewatching the first season, and I cried. Again.

Also everything something's said, though I find myself slightly preferring SoraXLayla to SoraXRosetta (even though I technically like Rosetta more than the other two, in a purely objective sense...). Something about the way Sora and Layla look at each other towards the end of the series, especially Layla looking at Sora, elevates it up to something more...

...I think the scene that sells me on it is before the final performance of Freedom, when Layla comes in and fixes Sora's makeup. That was the scene that truly sold me on the two of them, and not just in my wild Yuri-goggle distorted imagination. Even taking out what else I hope they'd have, at that moment they just "clicked" together...and I'm rambling at this point since its 3 am and I need to go to bed.

Also at the end, when Sora was crying after finding out how bad Layla's injury really was...I always lose it at that point myself, but the way Layla came in and knew exactly what to say to Sora, how she ALWAYS knows exactly what to say and what to do. How sometimes Sora needs someone to come in and smile and fix her makeup, but other times she needs to be told to pick herself up and dust herself off and get her butt back in line...Layla always knows which is the right one for the moment...oh god I think I'm going to cry again.

[populuxe]

Watching the show it always seemed to me that Sora had just finished high school just prior to season 1 (making her 17-18). I seem to remember her ex-classmate and best friend was attending college in the US, plus I definitely remember Sora meeting with her friends in season 2 after she went home and hearing what they had all been up to since she left - iirc one was trying to get a job as a voice actor.

I thought Sora's friend Minami was a high school transfer student. I'll have to watch that episode again. And it's not unheard of for high school students to become seiyuu. Mayaa Sakamoto got the role of Hitomi in Escaflowne when she was only 16.

[something]

Also everything something's said, though I find myself slightly preferring SoraXLayla to SoraXRosetta (even though I technically like Rosetta more than the other two, in a purely objective sense...). Something about the way Sora and Layla look at each other towards the end of the series, especially Layla looking at Sora, elevates it up to something more...
The structure of the show certainly lends more support to Sora x Layla. They get more scenes, more serious scenes, and more important scenes, including most of the climaxes of both halves. Their relationship is the core of the story in part one, and a very critical theme in part two, even if less directly.

Rosetta by contrast rarely shows up at all in part one, and plays third or fourth (sometimes fifth) fiddle in most of part two, so there's a lot less to go on. Sora x Layla is the heart of Kaleido Stage's story from start to the series' finish; Sora x Rosetta is a symbol of and glimpse into Kaleido Stage's future. Like I said before, for me a lot rests on whether you prefer Sora looking up to an onee-sama type, or if you prefer watching Rosetta look up to Sora as an onee-sama type ("Let me take charge of your body." =P).

I still cast my vote for Sora x Rosetta, but either way you fall, it's completely and utterly wonderful and among the best hypothetical yuri couples ever.

[TalonG4]

I'd still love to have seen INS's reaction to Sora's Visa application.
"so you want to send your minor daughter to America, unattended, to join a CIRCUS!?"
Heh, sure that would have went over big.

One other taking-it-too-seriously thought I frequently had during watching the show: How much does Sora make? At the beginning she no doubt made peanuts and later on she came back as an unpaid backstage crew member, but when she was under contract as the top star at Kaleido Stage (especially at the end), I can't help but wonder what her paycheck was like.

I was wondering this during the earlier episode when she found Jonathan. She needed part-time work to feed him but I noticed that she lives in the dorm which is probably for any cast members free of charge along with the fact that I see her eating at the cafeteria which might part of "tuition" of sorts. she always wears the same clothes too.:sdsmiley:
Kalos seems like he'd be pretty cheap as well.:sdsmiley:
Despite everything, it IS still a circus.

[Fencedude]

Still rewatching New Wings, but I want to gush about May briefly.

SHE NEEDS HER OWN SHOW NOW.

Hell, I'd be interested in seeing New Wings told from her perspective, we were of course already biased in Sora's favor about her, but I'd be interested in hearing her thoughts on things.

Anyone else agree she has better taste in workout outfits than Sora?

Also I love her naming sense. She could teach Ryusei Date a few things about how to name attacks.

[Fencedude]

"You're my pride"

I baaaawwwwed my eyes out at that. I'd teared up throughout the last bit, but that just killed me.

Absolutely 100% perfect ending. Everything something has said about it and then some. It ended perfectly, but I wish it had never ended, I want it to keep going on, as the role of the Kaleido Star is passed down hand to hand.


Also Sora's Angelic Maneuver costume is THE sexiest outfit ever worn in an anime. Hands down no competition. Blew everything the show had done beforehand out of the water.

[Shsway]

...I think the scene that sells me on it is before the final performance of Freedom, when Layla comes in and fixes Sora's makeup. That was the scene that truly sold me on the two of them, and not just in my wild Yuri-goggle distorted imagination. Even taking out what else I hope they'd have, at that moment they just "clicked" together... I just got done watching that episode this morning. It's not like the fire that filled the both of them, when they practiced the "Arabian Nights" routine in the pouring rain, or the sudden understanding that emerged when they discussed each other's parents and childhood impressions of the Kaleido Stage. But Layla's expression - her eyes have become so bright at this point, and Sora has that cute little blush on her face that has nothing to do with the make-up. It's so sweet. :catgirl: On an almost completely different note, I loved the look of the water, and the shot of Sora's face entering the frame, alongside the image of Kaleido Stage in the distance, just before arriving there and overhearing Layla and Yuri's conversation.

I almost wanna skip (of at least fast-forward), through the next ep, so's I can get to the good stuff...

Having recently watched MariMite, I was under the delusion that Itou Miki had played Layla as well, but obviously it was the similar character types that got me mixed up. :sdsmiley: I was not familiar with Ohara Sayaka's other roles - or Hirohashi Ryo's, for that matter - so I was surprised to see that they both play characters in Aria, that Ohara is Yuko in XxxHolic and that Hirohashi played Rakka in Haibane Renmei! Which makes sense and all, but wow.

It's also been fun to see just which episodes Sato Junichi storyboarded himself in this show.

You know, I think this is the first viewing through which I've come to understand the extent of Sora's "GUTS!!" attitude, as well as the encouragement she gets from all corners to be creative. I must say that I really hated Kalos' non-explanation tactics particularly when he scolded Sora for prepping for a "last performance"...but well, you see how that turns out.

[populuxe]

I must say that I really hated Kalos' non-explanation tactics particularly when he scolded Sora for prepping for a "last performance"...but well, you see how that turns out.

I firmly believe that people succeed at Kaleido Stage despite Kalos, not because of him. Like when Sora was starring in The Little Mermaid. Yes, she needed to figure out her own interpretation of the character, but what would be so wrong with telling her "You're not Layla. Don't play it like Layla." At least then she has a place to start.

[something]

I must say that I really hated Kalos' non-explanation tactics particularly when he scolded Sora for prepping for a "last performance"...but well, you see how that turns out.
Generally, Kalos didn't bother me too much - I guess I took the non-explanation cliche in stride most of the time - but this really did annoy me. Yeah, sure, his goal was to make them understand that they shouldn't see it as a final performance because that means accepting that it's all over. But god, he was such a dick about it, when Sora and the rest were truly, honestly doing the best they could to make the audience smile.

And yeah Hirohashi Ryou has done so many other wonderful roles. And is loooooooooooooooove. LOOOOOOOOOOVE. Easily one of my favorite seiyuu.

[Fencedude]

Legend of the Phoenix made me cry. Not that this should be a surprise, the show does it to me constantly.

WHY CAN'T THERE BE MORE. IT SHOULD NEVER END

Our Wings are our Dreams, which carry us to the sky!

[Fudce]

WHY CAN'T THERE BE MORE. IT SHOULD NEVER END

They could always animate Wing of Destiny...

[Asrialys]

WHY CAN'T THERE BE MORE. IT SHOULD NEVER END

They could always animate Wing of Destiny...
A giant time leap and a pairing that shouldn't be...no thanks. Unless it's not exactly like the manga and just builds around Yume, then maybe...

[zrdb]

I watched both series a few years ago and rewatched Stage last month-since I'm a sucker for shojo and simular stuff I loved it.

[Fudce]

You know what... I was going to save this for the end of the month, but I would like to use this thread to stealthily announce the title for the English Track's eighth draft, the Amazing Autumn VA Draft #8

Kaleido Star

I actually decided back in May, and have been biding my time with this information, but with the amount of love that's flowing for the show, it just seems right to announce this here and now.

Sign Ups wont be starting until September, but I'm hoping for a bigger-than-ever group of participants this time, so it's better to start advertising it early.

And in fact, Sign-ups opened last night, and the draft is already 87% full. There are just three spaces available, so if you like Kaleido Star, but aren't sure if you want to have a bit of fun recasting the english dub - you don't have much time left to mull over your decision. If there are any questions, either PM me or ask in the Draft thread.

[iceminx]

*loves season 1*
Not interested in the other Layla spin-off and I thought season 2 really changed it's tone and not for the better...

[something]

Not interested in the other Layla spin-off
Do you just mean the OVA? It's really quite good if you like Layla even the slightest bit (which you basically had to to enjoy season one).

[populuxe]

Not interested in the other Layla spin-off
Do you just mean the OVA? It's really quite good if you like Layla even the slightest bit (which you basically had to to enjoy season one).

It seems odd that ADV gave us one of the OVAs, but not the other two. I would have prefered it if the three OVAs had been packaged on one DVD.

[EmperorBrandon]

It seems odd that ADV gave us one of the OVAs, but not the other two. I would have prefered it if the three OVAs had been packaged on one DVD.

Well, those other two OVA's were produced later (about a year in between the release of each of them) and they probably didn't exist when ADV first acquired the license. I would have liked for them to be all released on one DVD too, and I was at least hoping that ADV would acquire the later two OVA's at one point and have them on a DVD at least. Don't have much hope for it right now, though, and even if they did get it, at least one role in the dub could not be reprised. :(

[populuxe]

Don't have much hope for it right now, though, and even if they did get it, at least one role in the dub could not be reprised. :(

Never say never when it comes to releases, but you are right about the dub. Mike Kleinhenz's passing has left a big hole in the dubbing community.

[EmperorBrandon]

Never say never when it comes to releases, but you are right about the dub. Mike Kleinhenz's passing has left a big hole in the dubbing community.

IIRC, Mr. Hamilton's part in the OVA was very brief, but there was an emotional scene in it. I would have loved to hear Mike Kleinhenz again there.

[Suwako Moriya]

All right then, since I finished the main series this will be the perfect place to reply to it. Without having to worry about having to decide what to spoiler tag or anything like that. In any case, let's get started.

Be it the legendary one or the angel one, the training for either maneuver went from being dramatic to actually kind of silly after awhile. Seriously, I was half-expecting them to make Sora have to literally climb into outer space and then run a hundred laps around the earth. With 7 ton weights attached.

Still I suppose if you want the almost supernatural stuff to happen, you kind of have to come up with some way to justify it. So I guess overly intense and definitely insane training is one way to do it. At least it came off a bit better with Angel than Legendary. Probably because the goal and final result of Angel was a bit more interesting.

It seems like a lot of the characters start off bitter towards Sora, but after awhile become one of three things. Someone who wants to perform with her. Someone who wants to compete with her, but without any malice behind it. Someone who wants to support her.

It's just a matter of which of the three they end up being. Although some seem to end up being a combination. That and how long it takes them to change. Some change in the course of a single episode. While other take several episodes.

Regardless it all ties into the show using the strategy of trying to make us hate the character in question and then later on trying to get us to warm up to the character. A strategy that works better for some characters than others, but that's a given.

I guess my feelings after finishing season 2 are about the same as season 1. In that the series is essentially frustratingly good. Some moments are rewarding. Some moments are harsh. Some moments are fun. Some moments are inane. Then you have some moments, I'm not sure about either way.

In any case, with that out of the way... it's time for what matter most. The characters that won me over. Ie the ones that essentially won me over more than anyone else anyway. They are the following four.

Sora: Sure sometimes her idea got to be a bit much, but you have to admire the fact she's quite determined. Plus it was nice that she seemed to try to strike a balance between following tradition and not letting tradition control her.

Mia: She's got a nice body and her role in the story kind of stands out. As one writing scripts, she's in essence help to create the foundation for the performers. Which presented its own challenge.

May: Even when her character is on the err negative side, they still manage to make her at least somewhat fun. Plus part of the fun with her seemed to be finding out what she truly wanted. Oh and her thing about calling out names makes me wonder if she has a secret side job battling generic monsters.

Rosetta: She's cute, fun, pretty, and badly needed more screen time. Her relationship with Sora is golden. Although if Rosetta is destined to lose Sora to Layla, there's always May.

[something]

Be it the legendary one or the angel one, the training for either maneuver went from being dramatic to actually kind of silly after awhile. Seriously, I was half-expecting them to make Sora have to literally climb into outer space and then run a hundred laps around the earth. With 7 ton weights attached.
...
It seems like a lot of the characters start off bitter towards Sora, but after awhile become one of three things. Someone who wants to perform with her. Someone who wants to compete with her, but without any malice behind it. Someone who wants to support her.
It wasn't so bad in season one, but what she goes through in season two is what turns a lot of people off. I admit it made me angry at times too, but never to the point of despair. May was handled very well, in that she was never bad enough to actually hate. There was enough variety to her character that seriously holding a grudge against her always felt silly, and the crazy, childish nature she exhibited at times just drove home the point that there was no way this girl really hated Sora. And thus there was no way I could hate May either.

Leon was rather a different case. He had no good side initially. He had none of the redeeming values May did. He put Sora through far worse - where May was a rival, Leon was just an assassin. There was no indication that he was being awful because wanted to better her, which set him apart from many of her other "rivals", and he was presented in a way that made season one Yuri look like a saint. But KS did a remarkable job turning Leon around when it was needed. He's still a character with issues, and I wouldn't say I "like" him, but he was handled in such a way that the show suffered no lasting negative effects. By training Sora in the right way at the end, he went a long way towards doing his penance.

In any case, with that out of the way... it's time for what matter most. The characters that won me over. Ie the ones that essentially won me over more than anyone else anyway. They are the following four.
Sora
Mia
May
Rosetta
Heh no surprise on those picks, but they're my favorites as well of course. I guess the exception is that I think I remember you not being much into Layla, who I absolutely loved at the end.

[Dack Ralter]

In terms of the plotting/training, the Angel part was much more annoying to me than the first one (The Double-Secrect-Probationary Manuever, or whatever it was called). It seemed sometimes like they were torturing Sora just because they could. That being said, the show managed to make May likable (by the end at least), generally return Leon to page one so he could start over (and not be such a prick), and bring Layla (and Yuri) back in a not-totally-ridiculous manner, so I was almost as happy with the end as with the first part.

Still one of my favorite series in its totality.

Character-wise, I was happy with Rosetta and May by the end, but that came at the cost of Mia :beatingheart::beatingheart::beatingheart: and Anna screentime. Boo!

[Suwako Moriya]

May was handled very well, in that she was never bad enough to actually hate.

May is a good example of a how an "initially negative" character should be handled. Give us a sign that there's more to her (or him in some cases) than simply being an ass. In other words, make the character human.

Favorite Four: Sora, Mia, May, and Rosetta
Heh no surprise on those picks, but they're my favorites as well of course. I guess the exception is that I think I remember you not being much into Layla, who I absolutely loved at the end.

It's nice to know that I'm still predictable. Of course, I have an easy way to prevent you from predicting who my favorites in a show are. I just have to find a show that I watched, but you didn't. Yeah that would work!


As for Layla, she's the type of character that I've grown to respect over time. She also definitely has her moments. However she's not really a favorite. I guess that's the best way I can put it right now. Truth be told I'm not sure where I'd rank her or most of the other characters.

Other than that none of them make it into the top four and top four may as well be considered tied as a result of my indecisiveness and other such things.

Edit: Decided to alter a quote (my own part) to trim down a message a bit

[something]

Character-wise, I was happy with Rosette and May by the end, but that came at the cost of Mia :beatingheart::beatingheart::beatingheart: and Anna screentime. Boo!
Anna never really did much for me, especially because she's unnecessary - if I'm shipping the lovely Mia, it's tooooooootally going to be with Cathy instead. <3

[Dack Ralter]

Anna never really did much for me, especially because she's unnecessary - if I'm shipping the lovely Mia, it's tooooooootally going to be with Cathy instead. <3

Heh, my yuri goggles are still in the mail somewhere. I just likes my twintails.

I guess I just like goofballs, and Anna did the trick. Spending a lot of time on screen next to Mia probably helped.

Assuming I have that statement correct. I'm dismayed that I seem to need an online fandom lexicon from time to time.

[something]

Assuming I have that statement correct. I'm dismayed that I seem to need an online fandom lexicon from time to time.
You do. "Shipping" is a term I seem to have adopted somewhat against my will and I just try to use "pairing up" instead when I can remember. :sd: But shipping has a more precise meaning so I just sorta give in and use it most of the time.

[Critic Chris]

Thanks to this thread, KS is now on my Netflix queue. After watching it, I will share my thoughts, no doubt becoming a convert in the process.

Hey, something: you don't watch English dubs much, do you? Most of your praise towards VAs in this and other threads is limited to seiyuu. Myself, I'm a dub fan. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just curious about your thoughts on the whole "dub-vs.-sub" thing.

[something]

Hey, something: you don't watch English dubs much, do you? Most of your praise towards VAs in this and other threads is limited to seiyuu. Myself, I'm a dub fan. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just curious about your thoughts on the whole "dub-vs.-sub" thing.
My own preference is to only watch anime in Japanese, as I've done exclusively ever since the second or third year of my fandom. But for the broader sub/dub question, I'm a very strong supporter of people watching whichever language they prefer (and hate how some extremists on both sides act). So I may not have any comments to add about the Kaleido Star dub, but obviously I have no problem with it being discussed here. Voice acting performances are an essential part of the experience of any anime, and thus it's valid as a topic of conversation, to the extent that it ties into discussion of the show's content.

[Critic Chris]

Hey, something: you don't watch English dubs much, do you? Most of your praise towards VAs in this and other threads is limited to seiyuu. Myself, I'm a dub fan. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just curious about your thoughts on the whole "dub-vs.-sub" thing.
My own preference is to only watch anime in Japanese, as I've done exclusively ever since the second or third year of my fandom. But for the broader sub/dub question, I'm a very strong supporter of people watching whichever language they prefer (and hate how some extremists on both sides act). So I may not have any comments to add about the Kaleido Star dub, but obviously I have no problem with it being discussed here. Voice acting performances are an essential part of the experience of any anime, and thus it's valid as a topic of conversation, to the extent that it ties into discussion of the show's content.

Cool.

[Fencedude]

Voice acting performances are an essential part of the experience of any anime, and thus it's valid as a topic of conversation, to the extent that it ties into discussion of the show's content.

Somewhere I was having a discussion about the casting in the two languages, comparing the effects of several miscast characters in the english version vs. the almost shamefully safe casting of the Japanese dub.

[The Great Bear]

Somewhere I was having a discussion about the casting in the two languages, comparing the effects of several miscast characters in the english version vs. the almost shamefully safe casting of the Japanese dub.

I remember that discussion.

The English side is, sadly, marred by a few miscasts. The Japanese side is also not perfect, as you noted. Some of the "safe" casting choices just give a performance that's pretty much a cookie-cutter repeat of similar roles they have voiced elsewhere.

The English side is slightly more daring, but not always with spectacular effect.

[Suwako Moriya]

Somewhere I was having a discussion about the casting in the two languages, comparing the effects of several miscast characters in the english version vs. the almost shamefully safe casting of the Japanese dub.

I can't directly compare the English version to the Japanse version. Given that I only really watched the latter. If/When I can actually fit Kaleido Star into my budget, I might at least watch some of it in English. Although I'm not sure how soon that will be.

Still the whole discussion makes me think about the idea of safe vs daring. Not sure if daring is the right term, but I'll go with it. It's always a trade-off when it comes to safe vs daring. Deciding which is better is often a case by case basis. One that's usually more dependent on whether being daring lead to complete victory or total fail.

That being said, over the years I've gotten used to the idea of safe casting. If safe casting also includes a VA using the same voice for multiple roles of a similar type. Honestly I think if I listen to any VA long enough, I'm going to eventually think "Her X reminds me of her Y". However I may also eventually find myself thinking "C is nothing like X or Y at all". This is true regardless of the language track.

On the other hand I think when it comes to daring voices, sometimes it's just a matter of getting used to the voice. Ie making the adustment. Whether or not one can get used to the voice is another story.

[something]

Still the whole discussion makes me think about the idea of safe vs daring.
When I look at claims of something being "safe", I conclude in almost every case it's synonymous with "They picked the right people and those people did a great job." I don't think I've ever watched anything and came away thinking "That would have been better if they didn't use such appropriate seiyuu."

Trying new seiyuu can be awesome and add to the excitement (see K-ON! for a great example) but for me it's a bonus when it's there (and only when it works), rather than a detriment when it's not.

[Critic Chris]

Watching the first few episodes:
-The first couple of episodes are a little rough thanks to pretty much everyone being an ass to Sora, although things pick in Episode 3, and Sora's takedown of the thief in Episode 1 defines 'Awesome'.
-Kalos is a douche.
-Astonishingly, I'm not really liking the English dub that much, and have switched over to the Japanese audio. It's not a bad dub, but it's surprisingly weak by ADV standards. The Japanese audio just "fits" better. This rarely happens to me.

[Asrialys]

-Astonishingly, I'm not really liking the English dub that much, and have switched over to the Japanese audio. It's not a bad dub, but it's surprisingly weak by ADV standards. The Japanese audio just "fits" better. This rarely happens to me.
Although I did watch the whole series dubbed, it was always hit or miss. Sometimes, the acting seems over-exaggerated. And Ken's voice got really weird in some parts. It didn't help matters when I read an ANN review on one volume, and it mentioned how Ken's voice seems sloth-like at times. It's kinda funny that ADV actually helped produce this series...

[Critic Chris]

-Astonishingly, I'm not really liking the English dub that much, and have switched over to the Japanese audio. It's not a bad dub, but it's surprisingly weak by ADV standards. The Japanese audio just "fits" better. This rarely happens to me.
Although I did watch the whole series dubbed, it was always hit or miss. Sometimes, the acting seems over-exaggerated. And Ken's voice got really weird in some parts. It didn't help matters when I read an ANN review on one volume, and it mentioned how Ken's voice seems sloth-like at times. It's kinda funny that ADV actually helped produce this series...

Oh God, I hate Ken's voice in English. John Swasey, as good as he is elsewhere, was horribly miscast.